BTRFTG

They would have become creditors the administrators retaining their registrations in an attempt to sell them to other clubs, not they were worth anything. This could have taken years, during which time they'd have been unable to have earned a living as footballers. 'The 8' held out for everything they could get, negotiated by Gordon Taylor in his first days as head of the PFA. There's a great account of the facts in For The Love Of The Game (The Official History Of The PFA.) Did the 8 have a dream? No, they had a nightmare. Did they tear up their contracts? No, as negotiated by the PFA their playing contracts were annulled but replaced with contracts handing them their registrations, an interim pay-off plus commitments by the new club for longer term compensation. Recall the PFA were also trying to protect their other members still at the club, for whom 'The 8' appeared not to hold consideration. Were they heroes? Nowhere near as heroic as the board members who devised and saw through City's salvation, those fans who scrimped to buy worthless shares and those who kept turning up to see an assortment of kids getting tonked, week in, week out. Was it 'The 8's' fault City were in such dire straits? No, that sits wholly with board and management but any suggestion having seen the club's plight that 'The 8' sought to help the club out of it's bind is farcical. They looked after themselves and themselves only, as is their right. That they had Hobson's Choice, that's life and heroism doesn't enter into it. And then there's the bit few mention. So these 8 heroic players, all free agents, what became of them and their careers? Virtually nothing, that's what. And why? Because despite their long contracts at AG they either weren't any good else were looking at their playing days in the rearview mirror. City didn't prevent them from having success elsewhere. That they didn't is all one needs to know. No, but many who stood alongside me on the terrace were.

Revisionist history had no limits it seems. Amazing how the facts (sic) of the matter appear in the hands of those who weren't around at the time. City owe nothing to 'The 8', unless that is you wanted City to go bust, which is nearly where they took the club. 'The 8' looked only after themselves, for which I don't blame them, but lest not forget the players immediately became free agents and later were paid around half of the outstanding balance on their contracts, so it's not as though they were left high and dry. Bristol Dockers who were being shafted at the time weren't so fortunate. Kids singing their stupid song might start by asking themselves if 'The 8' were such heroes then why were their testimonials so poorly attended? Answer, although one or two genuinely had been playing heroes most weren't and all their attitudes at screwing as much as possible out of the club didn't go down well with fans. At the time the players, Merrick in particular, were filmed saying they'd never set foot in AG ever again. For several years Merrick also wasn't shy in describing his thoughts on the club's treatment of him, as many a person who's worked in the building trade will attest. How times (and facts) change. And no, if there's a card on my seat dream on if you think it'll be held aloft, as those like me who thought my beloved club all but gone recall how the hard the PFA had to work to talk the players out of their demands. City's sad chapter should be buried, not celebrated.

Indeed, it's as though there's an optional class of debt it's wholly justified to walk away from. HMRC must stand firm on this one and if that means they ultimately get less back whilst sending a strong message to all they aren't to be messed with, then I think that a price worth paying.

In all this posturing one thing that's gotten lost is what's the value of the ground? MSD have a charge against the ground - with recent loans that's now probably just over the £20m mark. Now the ground last 'sold' (sic) for a market value of £81m, though never near worth that. Could MSD get £20m back by forcing the sale of the ground for development? Possibly. Would Morris stump up the £20m to MSD to retain the ground for himself? More likely. Bidders do not appear to have the wherewithal or desire to buy the ground, so are they negotiating to take it on a long term lease? Likely, owing to it's nature, any commercial rent required from a landlord to reflect its value would tip the deal into a capital rather than operating lease (the asset effectively a virtual freehold.) Cash side makes zip difference but in accounting terms it means the asset value and amortization hits the leaseholder account and that could be a major problem for a Div 1 side. Hence back to what's the ground worth? Say it's £50m and Derby take a 15 year lease. Not only is the football club looking at a couple of a million to lease the ground each year, but they're also having to account for a capital 'loss' of over £3m. Not sure if that gets reflected in the FFP scheme of things but if it does that's a major fly in the ointment.

My understanding is to date not one of the bids covers that owed to HMRC, let alone guaranteed creditors. What's 'needed' is for Derby to pay it's debts and that includes to the taxpayer. Derby fans shouldn't be so choosy as to what debt they think they should pay and that where they're happy for creditors to whistle. It's that attitude that turns non-plussed fans toward hoping the EFL blow the whistle on Derby one last time.

Didn't say that last time, did he? City weren't big enough for him, he thought himself able to play at the highest level, Leeds were all over him. Until that is, they weren't. Neither were anybody else. He was lucky City were so stupid as to give him a new deal.

Perhaps a new Ouija board might help as clearly one set of instructions isn't getting through..

The problem with you Ole is you've been nowhere near harsh enough. CoD is a footballing waste of space, has been since the day he arrived and many of us have shouted it from the rooftops. One wonder goal does not a career make, though in his case that seems likely. Once he stated he was off we should have thrown him through the door and bolted it. Unable to beat an opponent. Unable to deliver quality ball either on ground, in air, in motion or from dead ball. Heart of a scarecrow. I'd like to list his positive attributes though none relate to his ability to play football. For all City's 'positives' last night none were ever going to win us the game. We scored courtesy of a defensive calamity on their part when all their defence went short to Semenyo. Other than that we created little and we're easily countered in the final third. Wells late chance served only to reinforce he isn't misused nor starved of opportunity. He's rubbish. What touch he ever had (doubtful) has long deserted him. He'll best be remembered at AG for thrice failing to control a simple ball on the touchline, throwing himself to the floor when putting it in touch then openly mocked by all when he claimed a foul. A sheep in sheep's clothing. City again undone by an inability for our centre halfs to win headers in the box. When Kalas does get head to ball it's invariably edge of box or 3 feet off the turf, rarely where you need him to show strength in the 6 yard box. Vyner plays as though he's read every scientific journal study as to the impact of heading the ball and incidence of Traumatic Brain Injury. He's demonstrably concluded he's never going to put himself at risk. In CoDs or Semenyo's case if you think they'll ever allow a muddy ball to displace their coiffured barnets you've another think coming. The kids are our only positive at present. As you say, their actions put many of the senior squad members to shame.

Everybody blaming the keepers without reference to the utter inability of our centre halfs (or pretty much the rest of the squad,) to win headers in the box.

Then so be it. Marginal hit for HMRC, Morris still on hook to MSD, stadium nobody wants & Derby remembered not by my generation as a fine football club but by this and future generations as mickey taking cheats. If you now claim zero relationship between Morris' beneficial interests I think HMRC lawyers should look into any personal guarantees directors made within accounts (published or not,) as from what you're arguing Derby FC should have been wound up years ago given they have been trading beyond their ability to repay debts.

Perhaps, but long term possibly that's worth it to the taxpayer. I think in this case HMRC should call the administrators bluff.

Well, if Anderson & Jethro Till was a faux pas just wait until NTTDS discovers Lorraine Chase hails from down the road from me in Deptford... Perhaps he's changing onto the Thameslink service that occasionally runs to Luton from there?

'Human'? What's that to do with Cardiff?

Last Track, Side 1 , Talking Heads '77' Play it on repeat.

Don't think so; Weimann falls over in a breeze. FP to the officials for letting play continue.

Did really well. His through ball for the opener set the tone. More games, more experience will give something for Pearson to build on next season.

Watching his barnet today made me give thanks for the fact I'm a slaphead.

I'm not sure of the breakdown of that owed HMRC , I assume it mostly VAT, though is it not still the case that if income tax / NI has been deducted at source but not paid over that the individual remains liable in those sums?

I played rugby to a decent standard and as a prop forward never wore headgear, nor got injured (though my knees decades later are ******.) Reason for that being first lesson we were brilliantly taught the dos and donts of engagement, key being eyes open and always watch your opponent. Engage like you mean it, no shirking, never turn away. Same reason I pulled my son from his obligatory rugby engagements given his schoolmaster didn't agree with the old ways and I was fed up with seeing his charges carted off to A&E. Headgear leads to a false sense of security. In cricket these days you'll see more players being hit than when I played when there were no helmets. We were taught cricket balls are hard and dangerous, so always get in line and watch the thing for if you don't you'll be in big trouble. If it's coming at you move your head out of the way and watch it go past. Ultimately there's nothing to be done with contact sport other than to make people lighter, slower and to shorten exposure to repeated acceleration and deceleration of the head. I love NFL but seeing two 250lb lumps of muscle impact at 20m/s, that's frightening. Makes me wince this side of the pond. To make football safer the easy option would be to ban heading, but it's not football, is it?

That gives an idea. Perhaps they could name their new stadium (whenever it arrives,) the Lesserstadion.

The only thing worth noting is Bakinson will pass more often to a City player when playing for the opposition than he ever did playing for us.

Protective headgear is against cuts and little else. Skulls (multi layered and laminated,) regrow and bond all the time such you shouldn't have weakness from previous fractures. If damage is extensive you'll get a plate but the skull still grows under and around that. Cech's headgear was more for confidence than anything else, he felt more secure playing in it. As Scott reminds, you cannae change the laws of physics and when one's head rapidly accelerates or decelerates that old brain keeps rattling around inside the skull. That's the major issue with contact sports and headgear doesn't do anything for that.

I didn't realise until HXJ pointed out about the situation re registrations should you go under. He'd automatically be a free agent on those terms, don't know about your other kids sold, but worrying for you if it reeks of them going as the administrators ensure they maximize all returns come worst case.

I thought MSD were owed £20m (£15m + recent loans) and other football creditors around £10m. HMRC was around £28m and Morris himself around £124m. Is there any suggestion that MSD take the ground in lieu of debt with Morris writing off all his debt? If so, I suppose an injection of around £30 could be a starting point but that's a massive 'if' and still assumes HMRC will cut a deal. That said I guess HMRC would recoup more by taking 50% than they would becoming a preferential creditor. But £30m is a lot for a Div 1 outfit with no ground.

He'd likely throw it back so should you sit 8 rows distant from me in the Dolman, watch out......