Shambolic At Centre Back Again

[Martyn Hocking]

Carey and Nyatanga were very poor both as a pair and individually yesterday.

They would have to be 3rd and 4th choice next season behind Fonts + a commanding first ball winning centre half if we are serious about pushing for promotion.

People criticise Deano for not inspiring confidence in his defence but it works both ways - Nyatanga's back pass from about two feet to his keeper in the first half was insane.

Orr and Sawyer, by comparison, both looked very solid.

[Guest bcfc_Jamie]

Are you being serious?

[Andrew_V1]

I agree fully with the opening post, in particular nyatanga. He really is a clusterf**k waiting to happen in some games, and that back pass from 2 yards to deano who was on his line, who the **** taught him that as a youth. Stupid decision making by a light weight centre back with poor positional sense

[GrahamC]

Martyn, we didn't get the chance for a proper chat yesterday, but you're spot on.

Aside from the aberration of the back pass there was another instance when Nyatanga completely switched off with a guy behind him, very similarly to how he allowed Hooper to stay onside but get beyond him to get S****horpe's third.

Taken as a given that we need to bring in a top centre back as a summer priority, I just can't see that we could afford to keep Fontaine, Carey, Nyatanga and James Wilson, one of the latter 3 has to move on, in my opinion.

[Guest Mclovin BS14]

Carey and Nyatanga were very poor both as a pair and individually yesterday.

They would have to be 3rd and 4th choice next season behind Fonts + a commanding first ball winning centre half if we are serious about pushing for promotion.

People criticise Deano for not inspiring confidence in his defence but it works both ways - Nyatanga's back pass from about two feet to his keeper in the first half was insane.

Orr and Sawyer, by comparison, both looked very solid.

I agree orr had a good game and sawyer on his debut looked impressive and didnt put a foot wrong, but i actually thought nyatanga had a good game but for louis i honestly think he is off the pace atm and i would be suprised if carey plays there next season.

[Guest bcfc_Jamie]

My choice would be nyatnga to leave. James Wilson seems to be a promising player after decent loan spells at brentford .

[Robbored]

Taken as a given that we need to bring in a top centre back as a summer priority, I just can't see that we could afford to keep Fontaine, Carey, Nyatanga and James Wilson, one of the latter 3 has to move on, in my opinion.

Millen has already talked about the defense and its inconsistency. I've no doubt at all that Coppell/Millen will look to strengthen in that area as a priority. A center back could well be the first new player though the door this summer.

Fontaine, Orr and based on one game (yesterday) Sawyer are probaby in Coppells plans but as for Nyatanga and Carey, I'm not so sure. Louis is close to end of his career and Nyatanga lacks composure. McAllister is sitiing on three year deal I think.

Coppell has a good record at giving youngsters a break and it might be that James Wilson will get his chance.

[chinapig]

Carey and Nyatanga were very poor both as a pair and individually yesterday.

They would have to be 3rd and 4th choice next season behind Fonts + a commanding first ball winning centre half if we are serious about pushing for promotion.

People criticise Deano for not inspiring confidence in his defence but it works both ways - Nyatanga's back pass from about two feet to his keeper in the first half was insane.

Orr and Sawyer, by comparison, both looked very solid.

Quite. They look in a state of panic whenever the opposition come at them. I'm sure this will be a key area for SC, given the pointed remarks Keith has made about our defending recently. A centre half with leadership qualities is badly needed and should have been a priority in January over a winger. Some of the players may live to regret Johnson's departure as he was far too loyal to them and stuck by them despite their consistently poor performances.

[Simon79]

I thought louis had an ok game. Especially as at one point i thought he was going to have to go off due to an injury he picked up in the 2nd half. I also dont agree with the comments about him being past it etc. His positional sense is good,competes in the air and is good on the ball,often bringing the ball out from the back. Nyatanga does seem to have a clanger in him every now and again,but i think that has always been the case with him through out his career.When he was in his early years,he was regarded as one for the future,i would imagine this is what has held him back. He actually reminds me of Titus Bramble,great on one day a calamity on the next. He does seem to make some rash decisions with poor distribution. Im fairly sure he is still relatively young,so personally i would be fine with him in the squad.

[Rocky]

I do worry when Nyatanga gets the ball, but maybe sc can get the best out of him?

Carey has been going down hill for a while now, think his best days are behind him.

[Economou]

Millen has already talked about the defense and its inconsistency. I've no doubt at all that Coppell/Millen will look to strengthen in that area as a priority. A center back could well be the first new player though the door this summer.

Fontaine, Orr and based on one game (yesterday) Sawyer are probaby in Coppells plans but as for Nyatanga and Carey, I'm not so sure. Louis is close to end of his career and Nyatanga lacks composure. McAllister is sitiing on three year deal I think.

Coppell has a good record at giving youngsters a break and it might be that James Wilson will get his chance.

I don't like this creeping Americanism !

[Martyn Hocking]

Martyn, we didn't get the chance for a proper chat yesterday, but you're spot on.

Aside from the aberration of the back pass there was another instance when Nyatanga completely switched off with a guy behind him, very similarly to how he allowed Hooper to stay onside but get beyond him to get S****horpe's third.

Taken as a given that we need to bring in a top centre back as a summer priority, I just can't see that we could afford to keep Fontaine, Carey, Nyatanga and James Wilson, one of the latter 3 has to move on, in my opinion.

You're right - I was forgetting James Wilson. If he is anywhere near as good as Ribs, then he has to be retained and at least one current centre back moved on (in reality it should be two as you have to assume McCombe will not be part of the first team next season).

[!james]

agree 100% Nyatanga is turning into McCombe for me, whenever he touches the ball i hold my breath awaiting a mistake!

[CarlBCFC]

Nyatanga is just like a young Mccombe IMO, but unlike Mccombe has a few more years to learn.

[Alex_BCFC]

They are both average CB's at this level and clearly Carey is on his way down now. Nyatanga is probably good for 3rd choice but is a bit panicky.

A decent new CB is important for next season.

[James]

According to the thread floating around a couple of days ago Carey, Jamie Mac, Boom Boom and Fonts are all out of contract in June, cant help but feel based on the last season we may have seen the last of 3 of these 4 defenders at the gate...

[Guest BristolCityFC1]

i really hope they get rid of Nyatanga, he is the worst defender iv seen in a city shirt! = total rubbish, + he always lets the ball bounce, very frustrating when he puts pressure on himself nd the other city players when he doesnt need to!

[Super Scotty Murray]

For me next season our centre backs should be Ribs plus (if possible) a new commanding centre back.

Fonts and Nyatanga could be 1st reserves at centre back and left back and I am sorry Louis but I think you have had your day.

Absolute legend but I would be surprised if Coppell would start him next season based on his recent performances.

[_Bristol-City_]

Carey was alright, Nyatanga is shocking..

[Guest 21. Marcham]

You're right - I was forgetting James Wilson. If he is anywhere near as good as Ribs, then he has to be retained and at least one current centre back moved on (in reality it should be two as you have to assume McCombe will not be part of the first team next season).

If SC can stop Bradders from playing it long, then he would be a much better player. Therefore I feel Ribs could and should be given a chance at CB. He's got good composure on the ball, an okay positional sense (which can be improved due to his age), and also isn't afraid to put a foot in when needed.

[Guest bridgwaterEd]

Yer agree, brads long balls are rarely of any quality, normally ending up in the stands, but he is a great defensive player. Think Fonts is reliable and should stay, Carey should have at least one more season with us, but back-up is a must and nyatanga and boom boom surely have to drop down a level as they are not quite good enough for the champ.

[Rocky]

Fontaine is def a starter IMO, much better than a 'first reserve'

[internetjef]

Nyatanga had an absolute howler at centreback today

I have never seen anyone invite pressure onto thereselves so much

he made the simplest bits of defending look like a mad panic.

Dodgy passback from 2 yards and letting the ball bounce constantly were two of his most glaring mistakes.

I know hes young so could improve but for me he cant be anywhere near the first 11 at start of next season if we want to push on.

Possibly decent enought to retain for one more season as backup, and see if he can train on and take his chance well when we pick up inevitable injuries.

But by that point hopefuly Wilson will be ready to start challenging anyway

[James]

Yer agree, brads long balls are rarely of any quality, normally ending up in the stands, but he is a great defensive player. Think Fonts is reliable and should stay, Carey should have at least one more season with us, but back-up is a must and nyatanga and boom boom surely have to drop down a level as they are not quite good enough for the champ.

I actually made this point whilst watching the game yesterday and for me it was the reason Sawyer stood out for me and gained my MOM vote, not only did he look solidly defensively but when he got the ball at left back instead of lifting hi head and smashing it like the rest of our back line do he actually picked a spot/player and dropped the ball teasingly in behind Derby's back line on more than one occasion!

Would be a great signing if he wants to stay! IMO

[Gilli74]

If SC can stop Bradders from playing it long, then he would be a much better player. Therefore I feel Ribs could and should be given a chance at CB. He's got good composure on the ball, an okay positional sense (which can be improved due to his age), and also isn't afraid to put a foot in when needed.

I agree I think Ribs could be good in the middle...

With regards to our fullbacks, Orr and Mcallister, their choice of longballs has kind of been forced upon them by never having quality wingers AHEAD Of them to feed to ... We've had no natural wingers, only ones made up mostly of central midfielders who naturally drift inside ... The long balls have lessened of late after JCRs arrival .. But Orr has the biggest problem with the right as sproule doesn't ever offer himself ahead of Orr he always wants the ball next to Orr ... And quite often after knackering himself after 10 mins .. He's behind Orr going forward ...

So I think with SCs arrival and with him being a successful winger himself. The long balls will cease as he'll want the wingers carrying it forward and will drum it into them with a 442 ...

[Nibor]

I have to try harder and harder to think Nyatanga will be a good centre half at this level. He's indecisive and makes everything look rushed and he hoofs too much. A good coach needs to really get inside his head or he'll only go backwards from here. I certainly wouldn't play him in a back two at the moment.

Carey is getting older but still has that air of assuredness and alongside Fonts is good enough. I'd certainly look to bring in a top class centre half as well though.

Sawyer did well but it was only one fairly lacklustre game, so it's hard to say if he has what's required to improve on McAllister. Orr can defend but wastes too much ball going forward trying to be Beckham. I'd be looking to Ribeiro for a starting berth at right back next season with JCR in front of him.

Keeper? Well, Gerken isn't good enough right now to be the first building block in a side challenging at the top end. He may be in future with the right coaching but he makes a number of silly errors and drops too much, he needs a lot of coaching. I'd prefer Henderson at the moment and I think if we're going to bring in a first choice keeper I'd let Gerken go before Henderson.

[Portland Bill]

I do worry when Nyatanga gets the ball, but maybe sc can get the best out of him?

Carey has been going down hill for a

while now, think his best days are

behind him.

Carey has been brilliant the last few weeks, i cant believe people are questioning him. Yes he is in his mid 30's but his experience has held us together at times this season. I actually think hes playing better than he was 5 years ago.

[havanatopia]

I have to try harder and harder to think Nyatanga will be a good centre half at this level. He's indecisive and makes everything look rushed and he hoofs too much. A good coach needs to really get inside his head or he'll only go backwards from here. I certainly wouldn't play him in a back two at the moment.

Carey is getting older but still has that air of assuredness and alongside Fonts is good enough. I'd certainly look to bring in a top class centre half as well though.

Sawyer did well but it was only one fairly lacklustre game, so it's hard to say if he has what's required to improve on McAllister. Orr can defend but wastes too much ball going forward trying to be Beckham. I'd be looking to Ribeiro for a starting berth at right back next season with JCR in front of him.

Keeper? Well, Gerken isn't good enough right now to be the first building block in a side challenging at the top end. He may be in future with the right coaching but he makes a number of silly errors and drops too much, he needs a lot of coaching. I'd prefer Henderson at the moment and I think if we're going to bring in a first choice keeper I'd let Gerken go before Henderson.

I have only seen Henderson live once.. mind you, how many games as he played?.. i reckon that counts for about a 1/3 of all his full league games for City this season... anyway, back on point, at Glanford Park I would rate Henderson as about 4/10. if he was double that in the other 3 games then he was 20/30. Thats not bad but its not good enough for a Number 1.

I am sure Coppell will build strongly from the back including a new goalie as partner to Gerken.

[Super Scotty Murray]

Carey has been brilliant the last few weeks, i cant believe people are questioning him. Yes he is in his mid 30's but his experience has held us together at times this season. I actually think hes playing better than he was 5 years ago.

I can promise you are in the minority!

[Andy082005]

Carey has been brilliant the last few weeks, i cant believe people are questioning him. Yes he is in his mid 30's but his experience has held us together at times this season. I actually think hes playing better than he was 5 years ago.

His performances have improved......but "brilliant"...hmmmm, bit O.T.T in my eyes

For me, Carey needs replacing. Next season we need to bring in a Chris Morgan, Martin Taylor centre half, someone with a real "no nonsense" approach, and still oozes experience. The Icelandic geezer from Reading has been mentioned a fair bit.

Thanks for the service Louis, but your time is up my friend

[Port Said Red]

Lewin Nyatanga, 21 years old and getting criticism on here for not being the perfect defender...........

As much as I would love to see more youngsters get a chance in the 1st team, I sometimes wonder how much damage would be done to them by a section of fans at this club.

Louis Carey, 33 years old, Bristol City through and through, been an excellent captain and has the kind of experience that players like Nyatanga require. His own performances have been OK, occasionally "rolling back the years" but his presence is great for the kids. He gets criticised for being too old, but some people seem to be happy with replacing him with the 32 year old journeyman, Ingamarrson.

It's strange world.

[NickJ]

Lewin Nyatanga, 21 years old and getting criticism on here for not being the perfect defender...........

As much as I would love to see more youngsters get a chance in the 1st team, I sometimes wonder how much damage would be done to them by a section of fans at this club.

Louis Carey, 33 years old, Bristol City through and through, been an excellent captain and has the kind of experience that players like Nyatanga require. His own performances have been OK, occasionally "rolling back the years" but his presence is great for the kids. He gets criticised for being too old, but some people seem to be happy with replacing him with the 32 year old journeyman, Ingamarrson.

It's strange world.

Couldn't agree more and as for the thread title, completely OTT. Shambolic? Not even close. A player as committed to Bristol City as Carey deserves more respect.

[chinapig]

Lewin Nyatanga, 21 years old and getting criticism on here for not being the perfect defender...........

As much as I would love to see more youngsters get a chance in the 1st team, I sometimes wonder how much damage would be done to them by a section of fans at this club.

Louis Carey, 33 years old, Bristol City through and through, been an excellent captain and has the kind of experience that players like Nyatanga require. His own performances have been OK, occasionally "rolling back the years" but his presence is great for the kids. He gets criticised for being too old, but some people seem to be happy with replacing him with the 32 year old journeyman, Ingamarrson.

It's strange world.

Fair enough on Nyatanga, though I suspect both he and Fontaine would benefit from playing alongside a bigger, experienced, quality centre half. Neither of them is a centre half and nor is Carey. I don't think it is disrespectful to say perhaps Louis is now past his best. I doubt he will ever reach the peak of form he showed in our first season back in the CCC again. Loyalty to players who have served you well is a fine trait, but you can have too much of it, which was one of Gary's faults for me. You cannot keep picking players for what they have done in the past. I still think he has a part to play but not necessarily as an automatic pick any more.

[Nibor]

Lewin Nyatanga, 21 years old and getting criticism on here for not being the perfect defender...........

As much as I would love to see more youngsters get a chance in the 1st team, I sometimes wonder how much damage would be done to them by a section of fans at this club.

Louis Carey, 33 years old, Bristol City through and through, been an excellent captain and has the kind of experience that players like Nyatanga require. His own performances have been OK, occasionally "rolling back the years" but his presence is great for the kids. He gets criticised for being too old, but some people seem to be happy with replacing him with the 32 year old journeyman, Ingamarrson.

It's strange world.

Nyatanga had about 150 games at this level and 25 full international caps, I wouldn't consider him inexperienced. He hasn't improved this season has he? Besides which he gets nothing less than full support on the pitch.

[Will Rollason]

As an old ( retired) centre half, Nyantanga usually gives me kittens. He gets in terrible positions and his ability on the ball is, well, limited.

Saying that i thought he had a good game on Sat playing against a big lump of a forward. Get him turned though..........

I think we can all agree that centre half is an area that need strengthening???

[Martyn Hocking]

I think we can all agree on that Will. Maybe 'shambolic' was harsh but reality is that central defensive frailties have ruined way too many games for us this season. I know I harp on about it but Donny Rovers at home was a horror show.

If we had commanding central defenders we would regularly be talking about them on here having such and such a striker 'in their pocket'. When was the last time you could honestly say a City centre-half had his opposite number in his proverbial pocket??

[chinapig]

For Keith Millen's views on our defending:

http://www.thisisbri...il/article.html

[Martyn Hocking]

SC has told Milly he wants to play four at the back - hence the formation on Saturday. The current line-up cannot play in a four against the top teams so new players are essential.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Louis Carey, 33 years old, Bristol City through and through, been an excellent captain and has the kind of experience that players like Nyatanga require. His own performances have been OK, occasionally "rolling back the years" but his presence is great for the kids. He gets criticised for being too old, but some people seem to be happy with replacing him with the 32 year old journeyman, Ingamarrson.

It's strange world.

I don't agree that Carey is "an excellent Captain", in fact I don't think he is even an adequate one.

He's had some extremely poor performances this season and has notably failed to lift the team, or his own game, when our defence has indeed looked shambolic and we've taken some fearful hammerings, which, but for poor finishing by our opponents, could have been amongst the most embarrassing defeats in the club's history.

He's been a great servant to BCFC but season by season he is becoming less effective defensively and being caught out more often. The occasional surge upfield, however welcome, is not enough to justify the Captaincy.

Advancing age is not a criticism, it's an inescapable fact of life, and in a footballing sense time has caught up with Louis Carey.

Next season I would hope he would be neither Captain nor a regular starter and I'd be surprised if that's not the case.

[Guest always hoping]

If SC can stop Bradders from playing it long, then he would be a much better player. Therefore I feel Ribs could and should be given a chance at CB. He's got good composure on the ball, an okay positional sense (which can be improved due to his age), and also isn't afraid to put a foot in when needed.

Cannot see Ribs playing CB at all. He is much better playing wide where is able to join in the attack running with the ball. More likely to see him offering improved competition to Brad for the RB / wing back spot for next season. Assume SC will look to bring in some new personnel to look after the key CB positions.

[Frenchay Red]

Carey has been brilliant the last few weeks, i cant believe people are questioning him. Yes he is in his mid 30's but his experience has held us together at times this season. I actually think hes playing better than he was 5 years ago.

I tend to agree with you on this. With the rest of the defence (and our "is he coming off the line or is he staying put" GK), putting us under undue pressure, Louis has done remarkably well to try and hold it all together. He is still head and shoulders above Fonts or Nyatanga as an all-round CB. Maybe next season will be a transitional one for Louis as age is against him, but I would be very surprised if he wasn't a key part of our defence at the start of the season.

I can promise you are in the minority!

Are you David Cameron?

[Martyn Hocking]

A player as committed to Bristol City as Carey deserves more respect.

Sorry - Louis Carey deserves no respect at all for some of his performances this season - if he didn't want to play for GJ he should have handed the armband back.

As a captain he was absolutely invisible (and mute) in our heavy defeats and as a natural leader he ranks way behind both Hartley and Orr on the pitch.

[NickJ]

Sorry - Louis Carey deserves no respect at all for some of his performances this season - if he didn't want to play for GJ he should have handed the armband back.

That's a big, not to say unfair, statement to make when not all of the circumstances are out in the public domain.

[chipdawg]

Lewin Nyatanga, 21 years old and getting criticism on here for not being the perfect defender...........

As much as I would love to see more youngsters get a chance in the 1st team, I sometimes wonder how much damage would be done to them by a section of fans at this club.

Louis Carey, 33 years old, Bristol City through and through, been an excellent captain and has the kind of experience that players like Nyatanga require. His own performances have been OK, occasionally "rolling back the years" but his presence is great for the kids. He gets criticised for being too old, but some people seem to be happy with replacing him with the 32 year old journeyman, Ingamarrson.

It's strange world.

Nyatanga's age is not an issue, although its obviously not something he can control. However, he's a first team player who is at best inconsistent; an accusation i believe Derby, Barnsley and Sunderland fans would level at him. I actually think he's got great potential, but like a lot of players who make their breakthrough early, they struggle to fulfill potential. I reckon in a couple of years he could turn into a top player but until then he can't really be trusted as one half of a back 4

As for Louis, some of the criticism has been over the top, but the fact of the matter is that he has not played as well this season as he has in the last 2 and is he realistically going to be part of a back 4 that wins promotion from the Championship? To be honest its equally harsh to refer to Ivar Ingimarsson, who has been at Reading for 6 seasons and played 2 seasons in the Premier League, as a 'Journeyman'