Sunday Independant

[cider head]

An interesting read

Steve Lansdown has delivered a personal message to Bristol city fans that he wants proof of their ability to sustain a premier league club. In an interview following the appointment of new manager Steve coppell, the chairman told me he expects to see average home gates improve by 2,000 in the Championship next season.

And lansdown hinted strongly that if supporters don't respond to Coppell's appointment by visiting Ashton gate in increasing numbers, he might well reconsider investing heavily in the club himself.

I put money in to Bristol city football club because I want it to be a success, but I can't make it successful on my own, said lansdown. I need people to come along and support the team and the club. It's all very well to sit at home moaning about this and that, and at times I understand their frustrations but the appointment of Steve demonstrates both my own and the club's ambition to provide top class football in the west country.

The fans now simply have to come along and play their part, They can show me that I am doing the right thing by buying season tickets and turning upin big numbers at our home games next term.

If they are prepared to put their money in through those ways, I will be happy to continue putting mine in, That's the trade off, if you like. Our average gates in the campaign just ended were around 14,000 If we could average 16,000 next season it would tell me there is the support I want behind the club.

When we go in to the new stadium the idea will be to take that figure up to 24,000 or 25,000 That's the way I am looking and it would give us extra revenue we need to get better players, better coaching staff and all the other requirments to compete at the top level. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the personnel already here, but you always have to be looking forward and setting new goals, I look at the club at the moment and think we have come an awfully long way, but we still have an awfully long way to go.

Coppell officially took over as manager last Tuesday following his family holiday in America. So began an new era at Ashton gate, which could make or break city as a club. If the former Reading and Crystal palace boss is successful, the dream of playing premier league football at a plush new stadium may well be realised. Should things go wrong on the field and the stadium plans fall through, the ramifications hardly bare thinking about, particulary if lansdown becomes disillusioned and steps aside.

That is the last thing on his mind at the moment. He share the excitment of the majority of city followers about coppell's arrival and while there are no promises of backing the new manager with silly money, the drastic cutbacks that he suggested might follow a season without a promotion challenge or a cup run look set to be shelved.

When I made those comments Gary johnson was in charge and we had a plan going foward, When he left it was a case of sitting down and thinking where do we go from here and what are our ambitions; said the chairman, ;Clearly one of them is to get to the premier league.

The job then was to find someone who would be careful with signings, recognise a bargin when they see one and still be able to win us promotion. I don't for see us spending any more than we have before but as always I will back our manager in every way I can. I would like to think we can operate with a smaller squad but I'm certainly not saying steve coppell has to sell before he can buy.

We are investing in the club - and that's the why building the new stadium is so important because we can't get enough people in to Ashton gate or generate enough revenue from it.

'Steve's appointment improves our profile. He played for Manchester united and England before becoming a successful manager and, although his main aim is achieving success on the pitch, his mere presence at the club should boost our chances of getting the stadium built and attracting sponsors.

'We are an established Championship side now, but we need to do better if we are to get in to the premier league, Steve is the sort of person who can give us that extra impetus.

Even if we were top of premiership I would still be looking to improve, That's what life is all about you have to keep striving to do better. I hope the fans will see someone of the calibre of Steve joining us as a very positive move, which encourages them to renew season tickets or buy one for the first time and then come along in real numbers to support us next term.

If they don't it will be a huge disappointment to me'....

[Lita For Congo]

If we have decent football next season the flaoting fans will follow but because of the difficult economic trouble the uk is in, some will find it hard to go alot because of the 30 quid you have to stump up every week. Fair comments by SL though I can see his view but he must understand it will be difficult for some because of the massive price to watch a game for a floating fan.

[cider head]

If we have decent football next season the flaoting fans will follow but because of the difficult economic trouble the uk is in, some will find it hard to go alot because of the 30 quid you have to stump up every week. Fair comments by SL though I can see his view but he must understand it will be difficult for some because of the massive price to watch a game for a floating fan.

Yep fair comments about prices and current financial climate it does seem though by history Bristol city have struggled to average 24k even in the old top flight in the 70's when it was cheap as chips to watch football,

the new Bristol city at a new stadium will have to really go some to beat past history if they want to average

24-25k gates.

As much as i'd like to see big gates at ashton gate or even the new stadium i think city will struggle to get 25k

at todays prices i hope i'm wrong but i can't see it unless we are pushing the top half of the prem, it's a fickle

city unlike your derbys and co who get 22k most games.

Below is peak gates city have had over the years and in these seasons the average was much lower than the peak, it seems the bristol public only like to come out in numbers for big themed games.

Looking at the most successful period in the recent clubs history 1975 to 1981 (granted relgations there).. But with it being cheap to get in to watch football and there was standing areas, the highest top 3 home gates from each year is as follows

1975-76 season

1. 27,394 home to portsmouth

2. 24,614 home to notts county

3. 23,136 home to southampton

1976-77 season (first season in the top flight)

38,688 home to liverpool

28,932 home to west ham

28,101 home to spurs

1977-78 season

31,990 home to notts forest

31,471 home to liverpool

28,879 home to west brom

1978-79 season

29,914 home to west brom

28,781 home to spurs

28,722 home to liverpool

1979-80 season

28,783 home to man utd

27,333 home to arsenal

27,187 home to liverpool

1980-81 season

14,921 home to cardiff

13,554 home to bristol rovers

12,020 home to derby

1981-82 season

10,791 home to bristol rovers

9,228 home to fulham

8,155 home to newport county

It gets depressing reading in 1982-83 season the highest home gate was

9,002 home to swindon and the lowest a mere 3,041 watched city at home to torquay.

1983-84 The highest home gate 10,827 at home to york

1984-85 The highest home gate 11,952 at home to hull

1985-86 The highest home gate 12,171 at home to bristol rovers

1986-87 The highest home gate 19,201 at home to swindon

1987-88 The highest home gate 18,373 home to doncaster

1988-89 The highest home gate 23,191 home to bristol rovers

(a cup home game with forest gate 28,084)

1989-90 The highest home gate 19,483 home to walsall

(a fa cup game home to cambridge 20,676)

1990-91 The highest home gate 22,269 home to bristol rovers

1991-92 The highest home gate 20,183 home to bristol rovers

1992-93 The highest home gate 21,854 home to bristol rovers

1993-94 The highest home gate 20,725 home to notts forest

(fa cup game home with liverpool 20,612 abandoned due to floodlight failure

rearranged game at home gate of 21,718)

1994-95 The highest home gate 11,127 home to sunderland

(cup game with everton home gate 19,816)

1995-96 The highest home gate 20,007 home to bristol rovers

1996-97 The highest home gate 18,642 home to bristol rovers

1997-98 The highest home gate 19,141 home to watford

1998-99 The highest home gate 16,257 home to swindon

1999-2000 The highest home gate 11,510 home to burnley

2000-01 The highest home gate 16,696 home to bristol rovers

2001-02 The highest home gate 16,609 home to reading

2002-03 The highest home gate 18,085 home to plymouth

2003-04 The highest home gate 19,101 home to blackpool

(play off home to hartlepool gate of 18,434)

(carling cup home to southampton gate of 17,408)

2004-05 The highest home gate 14,852 home to sheff weds

(cup game with everton gate of 15,264)

2005-06 The highest home gate 15,889 home to yeovil

2006-07 The highest home gate 19,571 (promotion day)

[Redhyde]

We need to be successful for people to run up that's the reality. Average attendances.

06/07 we went up off the back of a bad season 12818 Good winning football mainly

07/08 we went close off the back of promotion 16275 Winning football, exciting if not great.

08/09 we were upper mid table off a great season 16816 adequate.

09/10 we were upper mid table off a ok season 14600 Poor football poor results.

We're going to have bad attendances this year. Steve Coppell is a good IMO manager and appointment, but he's not exactly exciting. "Steve first question..why Bristol City? I don't know"... switch off..will hardly drive the sales.

Steve we need your investment or the team to perform in order to go. I wish it was the other way round, but we've never had a sustained period of success to make us go no matter what.

[Guest]

Last season I could not commit to a ST in the E.E so I could not re-new, I would of attended many more p.o.d. games but seemingly the empty seats were more valuable in that stand and p.o.d. fans were not required either, in that stand

Available work has now taken a upturn and it is quite likely I may even be able to buy a S.T but at this moment in time none will be made available in that stand and no doubt the niether will p.o.d.

There is a planned meeting in BS3 which hopefully will result in easing of restrictions and allow fans to support from where they want to displaying flags and coming together as one.

[Rocky]

Build it and they will come !!!

[Barrs Court Red]

The trick for the club is to create a culture of football watching in this City.

As it stands, although Football is a popular sport in Bristol, I know far more people that "like" City and don't go, than actually do. Most of those play football, but others are put off by the price and none of them have ever got used to going week in, week out. Compare that to smaller places like Leeds, Norwich and Nottingham who all have better gates despite spells in League 1.

City have done well to attract youngsters, it will be interesting to see what the renewal rate is for Under 16's to adult.

[Bristol Rob]

Last season I could not commit to a ST in the E.E so I could not re-new, I would of attended many more p.o.d. games but seemingly the empty seats were more valuable in that stand and p.o.d. fans were not required either, in that stand

Available work has now taken a upturn and it is quite likely I may even be able to buy a S.T but at this moment in time none will be made available in that stand and no doubt the niether will p.o.d.

There is a planned meeting in BS3 which hopefully will result in easing of restrictions and allow fans to support from where they want to displaying flags and coming together as one.

So your support is conditional on you being about to get a ticket in a stand with a poor view, just so you can put a flag up?

[Pezo]

So your support is conditional on you being about to get a ticket in a stand with a poor view, just so you can put a flag up?

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, if I wasn't able to sit/stand with the people I like going with i.e. my football family, I certainly wouldn't go! football is a social thing for me and a chance to see people I have known for years through watching football.

Football for the person in question seems to about surrounding himself with fun energetic boisterous people and to display his flag, you cant get this anywhere else in the stadium so why shouldn't his support be conditional of what he wants out of the day or are you saying that?

[redsontour]

The stats on the attendences are really quite revealing and actually contradict the posters thoughts.

In div 1 we had attendences of over 25k and then for some big games, despite us being in lower divs, we would have had some really good crowds, if segregation and restrictions had not been introduced, notably all seaters. So I'm hopeful that Prem football in a decent stadium will bring big crowds.

What is shocking is the drop from div 1 to div 2...I.e the Prem to the championship..shocking.

[Riaz]

I have spoken on several occasions to city fans who went to games in the seventies where we had attendances of 30k plus.

Now 30 years later, in a bigger populated country, in a area starved of success and and the other team only getting a minor crowd - surely we can get to those levels again? If we get in the prem I think its extremely likely to get at least 25k gates....

[Guest Marvelous Marvin]

<br />If we have decent football next season the flaoting fans will follow but because of the difficult economic trouble the uk is in, some will find it hard to go alot because of the 30 quid you have to stump up every week. Fair comments by SL though I can see his view but he must understand it will be difficult for some because of the massive price to watch a game for a floating fan.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

they can do what I did and buy a season ticket for the Eastend £280 that's about an average of £13 per game.

[Guest Marvelous Marvin]

<br /> so why shouldn't his support be conditional of what he wants out of the day <br />

<br /><br /><br />

Because a proper fan goes no matter what.

[Frome Valley]

I have spoken on several occasions to city fans who went to games in the seventies where we had attendances of 30k plus.

Now 30 years later, in a bigger populated country, in a area starved of success and and the other team only getting a minor crowd - surely we can get to those levels again? If we get in the prem I think its extremely likely to get at least 25k gates....

The club won't get 24000 in the championship and if those gates are not realised the article seems to imply investment will be cut.

[Red Robin]

QUITE SIMPLY SL has made the commitment,now it is up to the fans to prove theirs.

[Guest Marvelous Marvin]

<br />Yeah, Even if they can not afford to put food on the table.<br /><br />I guess you have no family and children to support.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I wasn't on about the money you fool! Read the comments next time!

[cider head]

The stats on the attendences are really quite revealing and actually contradict the posters thoughts.

In div 1 we had attendences of over 25k and then for some big games, despite us being in lower divs, we would have had some really good crowds, if segregation and restrictions had not been introduced, notably all seaters. So I'm hopeful that Prem football in a decent stadium will bring big crowds.

What is shocking is the drop from div 1 to div 2...I.e the Prem to the championship..shocking.

I wouldn't say that i'm reading a book here and it's all in black and white on dates, times, scores, the lot and it is a bit of a myth that we had an average home gate in the 70's of 30 to 35k, mind you gates could have been bigger back then if the ground was bigger but it's something we'll never know now.

stats on league games..

The average appears to be 22k with a few 23-24k games from 1976 to 1979

but mostly popular were big games with big names ie; liverpool, man utd, spurs, man city, arsenal, wba

Not counting cup games but 42 league games were played in a season.

(first season in the top flight) In 1976-77 out of the 21 home games 8 games peaked over 25k

In 1977-78 out of 21 home games again 8 games peaked over 25k

In 1978-79 out of 21 home games 7 games peaked over 25k

In1979-80 out of 21 home games 3 games peaked over 25k

In 1980-81 out of 21 home games city failed to get anywhere near 20k let alone 25k

In 1981-82 out of 21 home games city failed to get anywhere near 15k let alone 25k

The promotion season to the top flight the average gate was around 12k which surprised me

yeah a few came out for a couple of big games but nowhere near a average of 25k.

1937-38 a gate of 38,066 seen city at home lose 1-0 to cardiff

The best time for gates at Ashton gate was 1955 to 1960 and also bare in mind football used to be so say very working class and very cheap to pay to watch, unlike today...

[southvillekiddy]

<br /><br /><br />

I wasn't on about the money you fool! Read the comments next time!

Calm down old son, plenty of time ahead of you to make enemies

[Guest Marvelous Marvin]

&lt;br /&gt;I think you will find there was reference to cost in the original post by Glos old boy. No need for insults sonny.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;p.s. try and reply to peoples posts without all &amp;lt;br/&amp;gt; stuff. Do you know how to do that?&lt;br /&gt;

<br /><br />Then why didn't you reply to him instead of me? all &amp;lt;br/&amp;gt; stuff is a fault of the forum, it keeps coming up every time I reply to someone.

Edit: can a moderator do something about this fault?

[Guest Marvelous Marvin]

Calm down old son, plenty of time ahead of you to make enemies

Sorry, just annoyed about him having a go + very annoyed about the fault that keeps appearing whenever I Reply to a post.

[grove park city]

I have spoken on several occasions to city fans who went to games in the seventies where we had attendances of 30k plus.

Now 30 years later, in a bigger populated country, in a area starved of success and and the other team only getting a minor crowd - surely we can get to those levels again? If we get in the prem I think its extremely likely to get at least 25k gates....

I have gone to City since 1970 others i go with have gone from the early 60's just talking to people from that era is totally different you played the big teams with a real sense you could turn them over,the support in the 70's was different much more passionate partly due to just turning up and standing anywhere the stewards were hardly used and spent more time having a crafty fag and a chat..... Football now competes with general entertainment ,foreign holidays,mortgage life expenses in general,also their was no Sky Tv in those days so there was not an endless stream of top flight football plus all the various cup competitions ... Just go to any pub and try to get a City game on if it clashes with any of the top Prem sides apart from a proper City pub no chance,that is what Steve Lansdown is up against so rightly he is targeting young support before the Chelseas and such like suck them in . The gates will rise with some success but i can't see regular 27,000 gates in the near future .

[054123]

<br />I think you will find there was reference to cost in the original post by Glos old boy. No need for insults sonny.<br /><br />p.s. try and reply to peoples posts without all &lt;br/&gt; stuff. Do you know how to do that?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I genuinely don't and it's getting right on my tits.

For whatever reason, it only happens on my work laptop and not my home one.

Spill the beans.

[chipdawg]

The club won't get 24000 in the championship and if those gates are not realised the article seems to imply investment will be cut.

I think when SL says 'working towards' gates of 24-25k, he means that there should be evidence that the fan base is increasing

If we got to the Premier League, i suspect we'd easily get 25k people in the new stadium; many would only be part-time City fans, more interested in the spectacle of Premier League football than our club, but they'll still pay the money

[Nogbad the Bad]

SL seems to think there are a large number of fans in Bristol ready to change their long established habits and be cajoled into coming out and supporting City every week.

With success and entertaining football gates will naturally increase but if SL thinks Bristol is a passionate football city with another 10,000 ready to become regulars, with nothing changing except a new manager, or even a new stadium, I think he might be mistaken.

Instead of saying, "gates must improve, or else", what is the club doing to advertise itself to new supporters and price pay on the day tickets at a level that is not off-putting to those who can only attend occasionally?

Season tickets are good value, pay on the day is not. If my wife decides she wants to attend on the day we always find the price shocking so we think twice and her visits to AG are far fewer than they would be otherwise. You expect a really entertaining experience for that price and as we all know it is just as likely to be a thoroughly miserable afternoon at AG.

It seems to me there are alot less youngsters attending AG these days than when I started watching. In those days they were at the front all the way round the ground and you had to get their early to get a space. What about putting an area of the ground aside for the first 500 under 14's who turn up each week, at £3-£5 per head. Get them used to coming down every week, then going home and encouraging their pals to do the same. Make it cheap and get them hooked before Chelsea, Man. Utd. and Liverpool win their affections and support. Their own area, parents not necessary. There was always a cheap, self contained boys 'pen' at the side of the Kop for young children which meant they established a lifelong habit of supporting Liverpool at a very young age. Could BCFC not do similar, keeping an area aside ( e.g.Williams Stand, top left hand corner) and advertising it for the vast majority of matches where no sell out is likely?

Another point: people I take along occasionally are also put off by being constantly stared at by the stewards, seemingly looking to act on what they consider to be the slightest misdemeanour.

They find this unnecessary and intimidating and is another reason they are put off attending more often, along with the price. We know the stands are covered by CCTV, is it really necessary to have groups of men in yellow coats staring at the crowd suspiciously and discussing them all match as well?

[The Red Planet]

SL seems to think there are a large number of fans in Bristol ready to change their long established habits and be cajoled into coming out and supporting City every week.

With success and entertaining football gates will naturally increase but if SL thinks Bristol is a passionate football city with another 10,000 ready to become regulars, with nothing changing except a new manager, or even a new stadium, I think he might be mistaken.

Instead of saying, "gates must improve, or else", what is the club doing to advertise itself to new supporters and price pay on the day tickets at a level that is not off-putting to those who can only attend occasionally?

Season tickets are good value, pay on the day is not. If my wife decides she wants to attend on the day we always find the price shocking so we think twice and her visits to AG are far fewer than they would be otherwise. You expect a really entertaining experience for that price and as we all know it is just as likely to be a thoroughly miserable afternoon at AG.

It seems to me there are alot less youngsters attending AG these days than when I started watching. In those days they were at the front all the way round the ground and you had to get their early to get a space. What about putting an area of the ground aside for the first 500 under 14's who turn up each week, at £3-£5 per head. Get them used to coming down every week, then going home and encouraging their pals to do the same. Make it cheap and get them hooked before Chelsea, Man. Utd. and Liverpool win their affections and support. Their own area, parents not necessary. There was always a cheap, self contained boys 'pen' at the side of the Kop for young children which meant they established a lifelong habit of supporting Liverpool at a very young age. Could BCFC not do similar, keeping an area aside ( e.g.Williams Stand, top left hand corner) and advertising it for the vast majority of matches where no sell out is likely?

Another point: people I take along occasionally are also put off by being constantly stared at by the stewards, seemingly looking to act on what they consider to be the slightest misdemeanour.

They find this unnecessary and intimidating and is another reason they are put off attending more often, along with the price. We know the stands are covered by CCTV, is it really necessary to have groups of men in yellow coats staring at the crowd suspiciously and discussing them all match as well?

Nogbad

It would be a mistake to limit the potential market to the City of Bristol. A realistic catchment area (especially if we were in the Prem) is up to 50 miles radius, That probably includes about 4 million people living in that circle. Let's assume just 10% of them are interested in football - that's 400,000 and that just 10% of those football followers would consider coming to home games regularly. Bingo! there is 40,000 which I believe is the "extended" (if required) capacity of the new stadium.

Although I live in Bristol, I work in South Somerset and I know of very many "sleeping" BCFC fans living round here who follow the club, very rarely come to home games but who certainly would turn up regularly if we were in the Prem. Remember there is not another Premier League side within that circle - except of course if, god forbid, Cardiff beat Blackpool, but actually I was not really thinking of South Wales as a happy hunting ground for new fans for BCFC. However I would suggest that the 50 mile radius could be extended much further down into the South-West especially if Plymouth continue to slide (as I think they will).

So I am confident that we will see regular crowds around 20K in the new stadium and if we get to the Prem I forecast that the club will be very pleased that they designed in expansion capability at the Adidas Ashton Arena - or whatever it ends up being called.

Come to think of it, I like the sound of a AAA rating for the new stadium !

[southvillekiddy]

Sorry, just annoyed about him having a go + very annoyed about the fault that keeps appearing whenever I Reply to a post.

That's okay mate. We're all city fans in our own peculiar ways. Hope your ICT problem gets sorted out.

[Pezo]

<br /><br /><br />

Because a proper fan goes no matter what.

Even if they don't enjoy it and are treated with contempt and disdain for supporting the team the way they want in any other stand thus making it not enjoyable to them?

I guess that the original poster that you replied to and I am far worse supporter than you are, can you train me to be as good a supporter as you are? because I really don't know what extra I could do for the club.

[Guest Marvelous Marvin]

<br />Even if they don't enjoy it and are treated with contempt and disdain for supporting the team the way they want in any other stand thus making it not enjoyable to them?<br /><br />I guess that the original poster that you replied to and I am far worse supporter than you are, can you train me to be as good a supporter as you are? because I really don't know what extra I could do for the club.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

And what is all this about? No wonder city fans have got a bad reputation for being miserable with people like you going. you don't see me moaning!

[southvillekiddy]

Lads, lads, lads. Calm down everybody please

[beaverface]

Nogbad

It would be a mistake to limit the potential market to the City of Bristol. A realistic catchment area (especially if we were in the Prem) is up to 50 miles radius, That probably includes about 4 million people living in that circle. Let's assume just 10% of them are interested in football - that's 400,000 and that just 10% of those football followers would consider coming to home games regularly. Bingo! there is 40,000 which I believe is the "extended" (if required) capacity of the new stadium.

Although I live in Bristol, I work in South Somerset and I know of very many "sleeping" BCFC fans living round here who follow the club, very rarely come to home games but who certainly would turn up regularly if we were in the Prem. Remember there is not another Premier League side within that circle - except of course if, god forbid, Cardiff beat Blackpool, but actually I was not really thinking of South Wales as a happy hunting ground for new fans for BCFC. However I would suggest that the 50 mile radius could be extended much further down into the South-West especially if Plymouth continue to slide (as I think they will).

So I am confident that we will see regular crowds around 20K in the new stadium and if we get to the Prem I forecast that the club will be very pleased that they designed in expansion capability at the Adidas Ashton Arena - or whatever it ends up being called.

Come to think of it, I like the sound of a AAA rating for the new stadium !

So do these sleeping City fans actually want to watch City, or are they more interested in watching the Premier league sides?

I can guarantee that they'll see a much better game in Championship than they would in Premier League with City playing at home to the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal etc...

The game would be so one-sided that City would be clinging onto a draw with the hope of grabbing break-away goals or goals from a set pieces.

So, I'd like to know what the attraction is with having a Premier League Bristol (doesn't matter whether it's City or the Gash) team, when let's be honest, the team would most likely get a tanking each week and would be based in a permanent relegation battle (obviously ignoring Readings first season in the Premier League of course under Coppell)

[Nogbad the Bad]

So do these sleeping City fans actually want to watch City, or are they more interested in watching the Premier league sides?

I can guarantee that they'll see a much better game in Championship than they would in Premier League with City playing at home to the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal etc...

The game would be so one-sided that City would be clinging onto a draw with the hope of grabbing break-away goals or goals from a set pieces.

So, I'd like to know what the attraction is with having a Premier League Bristol (doesn't matter whether it's City or the Gash) team, when let's be honest, the team would most likely get a tanking each week and would be based in a permanent relegation battle (obviously ignoring Readings first season in the Premier League of course under Coppell)

All these thousands who aren't really interested in BCFC at the moment, and don't attend, would be able to see the players and teams they are really interested in, in the flesh.

Not Maynard and Hartley or indeed any in the home Red shirt, but players they know far better from Premier League clubs.

We might get 25,000, or even many more, but there would be neutrals and away supporters all around the ground.

A day out, an occasion even, but a massacre most weeks in a diluted atmosphere and a Bristol City matchday experience that many of us would neither recognise or enjoy.

As I've said many times, the Championship is ( mostly!) a very enjoyable division to be in, and City's natural home - I don't like anything about the Premier League and don't care if City never get there.

[CiderHider]

I'd like to know what the attraction is with having a Premier League Bristol (doesn't matter whether it's City or the Gash) team, when let's be honest, the team would most likely get a tanking each week and would be based in a permanent relegation battle (obviously ignoring Readings first season in the Premier League of course under Coppell)

If you cant see the attraction of playing premier league footy then I doubt there is nothing I can say which will change your mind.

Its simply the best league in the world, the home of football. its global, I spend a lot of time in Asia, and to some people the Premier league is the most important thing in their lives. The Malaysians for instance are scary in their support of it, I mean scary, some are total nut jobs. There is a ManU bar in KL the size of Cribbs causeway, its ridiculous.

And If the likes of Wigan, Stoke, Blackburn and Sunderland can do it I don't see why we can't. Bristol is one of Englands top Citys, not sure the same could be said for long standing Prem side Blackburn.

Its a question of time before we establish ourselves in the Top flight, I think it will happen with Coppell, maybe not this season, but hopefully the next.

[Guest]

So your support is conditional on you being about to get a ticket in a stand with a poor view, just so you can put a flag up?

Its about choice; not restrictions. Why shouldnt fans have the choice to go in a part of the ground where other City fans are; its just another part of our ground and fears of mass riots and punch ups are way off.

[havanatopia]

1979-80 season

28,783 home to man utd

27,333 home to arsenal

27,187 home to liverpool

1980-81 season

14,921 home to cardiff

13,554 home to bristol rovers

12,020 home to derby

Appreciate you putting all those stats there Cider.. lot of work and very interesting.

The two seasons above are very telling aren't they... a halving in the highest 3 from each season. Can we dream that the numbers might reverse when we get promoted?

If you look at most of the teams getting promoted to the prem in recent years you will see they often have sell outs each home game. When they have been there a while you see those gates slipping off such as Blackburn and Bolton and i consider Wigan being a bit of a basket case of course. I genuinely feel City will have regular sell outs in the top flight assuming 30k. as for increasing our average next season to 16k.. i am sure that will happen if we are in the top half and playing attractive football so i think SL's dreams will be realised.

Once in the Prem it should also be a lot easier to reduce prices anyway.

[beaverface]

If you cant see the attraction of playing premier league footy then I doubt there is nothing I can say which will change your mind.

Its simply the best league in the world, the home of football. its global, I spend a lot of time in Asia, and to some people the Premier league is the most important thing in their lives. The Malaysians for instance are scary in their support of it, I mean scary, some are total nut jobs. There is a ManU bar in KL the size of Cribbs causeway, its ridiculous.

And If the likes of Wigan, Stoke, Blackburn and Sunderland can do it I don't see why we can't. Bristol is one of Englands top Citys, not sure the same could be said for long standing Prem side Blackburn.

Its a question of time before we establish ourselves in the Top flight, I think it will happen with Coppell, maybe not this season, but hopefully the next.

Apologies, I didn't put my description across very well. I was trying to talk in the third person i.e From the sleeping City fans perspective.

I've personally been following City for a very long time and I've seen a lot of dross in a lot of the divisions, so for City to reach the Premier League would be the pinacle for me personally (even though I hate many aspects of it). For me the enjoyment would be Bristol City trying to effectively do a giant killing act every week.

My previous post was trying to see things from the sleeping City fans point of view. Why are they waiting for Premier League football before coming to Ashton Gate because inevitably the football is going to be a lot worse from a City point of view - and yet they claim to be City fans??!?

[The Red Planet]

Apologies, I didn't put my description across very well. I was trying to talk in the third person i.e From the sleeping City fans perspective.

I've personally been following City for a very long time and I've seen a lot of dross in a lot of the divisions, so for City to reach the Premier League would be the pinacle for me personally (even though I hate many aspects of it). For me the enjoyment would be Bristol City trying to effectively do a giant killing act every week.

My previous post was trying to see things from the sleeping City fans point of view. Why are they waiting for Premier League football before coming to Ashton Gate because inevitably the football is going to be a lot worse from a City point of view - and yet they claim to be City fans??!?

Beaverface, you have to get real here. Just cast your mind back to the play-off final at Wembley. Whether or not you were there, you will know that 35,000 + City "fans" turned up. Including two ladies from the Accounts office where I work who had only ever been to one game before at AG.

OK of course they are not dyed-in-the-wool proper fans and in fact when I saw them the next week they could not actually remember the names of half the Cty players on the pitch that day but - SO WHAT,THEY PAID FOR THEIR TICKETS !

And Cider Hider is right, Bristol is the seventh largest city in England. If Wigan, Stoke and Sunderland (all far smaller populations than Bristol + the surrounding catchment area) then so can we.

[garlicbread]

The fact that some fans cant go for what ever reason, does not make them a lesser fan than you. You should consider distance and affordability, now unless you have deep pockets or perhaps single and with no family/ mortgage etc you will not see the reality that some fans just cant afford it.

I as a youngster would go home and away every week, no family to worry about then.

My cars have been broken into twice and I have received a few parking violations fines too.

If I am not at the match I never miss a commentry of some sort on the game, and my passion for the club has not diminished since I was a kid, however I do see the need for increased attendances and I am sure the new stadium will provide that, along with Prem football and better parking.

The new stadium will have 1800 spaces. Parking will be even worse than Ashton Gate

[garlicbread]

Beaverface, you have to get real here. Just cast your mind back to the play-off final at Wembley. Whether or not you were there, you will know that 35,000 + City "fans" turned up. Including two ladies from the Accounts office where I work who had only ever been to one game before at AG.

OK of course they are not dyed-in-the-wool proper fans and in fact when I saw them the next week they could not actually remember the names of half the Cty players on the pitch that day but - SO WHAT,THEY PAID FOR THEIR TICKETS !

And Cider Hider is right, Bristol is the seventh largest city in England. If Wigan, Stoke and Sunderland (all far smaller populations than Bristol + the surrounding catchment area) then so can we.

The difference is that these (working class) towns have the club woven into their community. It is very much a birthright. That doesnt happen in Bristol as much...certainly not outside Bedminster/southville.

...Bristol is very much a middle class city now, spread over a large area and populated by migrants from all over the country who work in the service industry.

Bristol doesnt have a sense of community, as much as those northern places, it doesn't need to. This reflects in (what I consider to be) the perennially poor support for th esize of club / level it plays at.

[Martyn Hocking]

Steve is spot on as usual - if City fans are serious about seeing us get into the Prem in the next two or three years, we need to turn up in numbers in the first half of the season, get a great home run going and let the chairman and new manager know that we want - we demand - success.

There are 16,000 - 17,000 serious City fans who will need relatively little persuading to get down to AG if we are in the top six by Christmas.

[Pezo]

As far as I can remember the request that fans just turn up is often ignored unless the right type of football is being played on the pitch. That is true especially of City, there is the support out there, it's up to the club to ensure that their hard earned is not wasted by watching boring draws, with the prospect of last minute goals conceded to take home in the car

This is a vicious circle as far as I can tell, supporters saying im not going to go because its not entertaining enough thus meaning we don't have the finances to go out and sign the best players to play the good football we all want. This combined with some people saying they want good football but then being the first people to complain when we lose and play good football (im not saying your one of these).

I personally think SL is pissing into the wind with trying to get us into the prem because all the evidence is that only a small percentage of Bristol wants a Premier League football club and are willing to put there money into getting us there beforehand. If we go up we might sell out for one season, the next season or the season after I think we would be at gates of around 18k for the less interesting fixtures if we stayed there.

I can see us getting promoted sometime but I cant see us ever getting big crowds like we would need to ever be anything more than a relegation threatened club in that league and its very depressing watching your team get beat week in week out and I think a lot of people would lose interest very quickly.