Urgent Please Read Re: Sainsbury's Decision

[SC_Red]

Bottom line is that it's got good exposure and they are rattled.

It's just the start, the club and Sainsbury's will make a lot more use of the information - I'd fully expect a very robust challenge to the decision based on Rayners definite and clear conflict of interest and also legal grounds. If it goes to an inquiry, I'd like to see how they handle being called as witnesses and cross examined by an aggressive lawyer on ALL aspects of why they went against professional advice and guidance.

agreed but its pretty lilly livered by the evening post.

What was to stop them listing the facts like Ole has done and then saying 'this has led some Bristol City fans to believe...'. Tabloids do it all the time to get a story out without actually stating it as fact. A headline with a question mark is always a good way to work round accusing someone too. 'Is Simon Rayner Corrupt?' that sort of thing.

[chinapig]

Legally I think Mr. Rayner is correct. Basically the link between his employer/partners and the AG site is not strong enough. What Mr. Rayner should have a done and his more experienced colleague Mr. Benyon did, was stepping down. Not only as chair but from the planning decison. Mr. Rayner and Mr. Levy should, considering their background, have understood that it was inappropriate for them to take part in the decision. Delikatess jäv "delicacy jaw" is there to protect the political system from legitimate questioning of the legacy of a decison. It's an absolute must that the man on the street feel that it's a fair decision - legally correct or not. Perhaps Mr. Rayner and Mr. Levy were not mature enough to make such a decision. Or they did not care. They now they were legally correct and had their own agenda hiding away in the name of democracy. Who cares about what people think. After all they are only football fans. I trust you enjoy being pilloried. Shame on you.

You may be right on the legal point but it is a question of ethics, which this guy probably thinks is a county in the South East. Falling back on the crooked MP's defence of "I didn't break the rules" is not good enough if you aspire to high standards of governance. Which of course we now know the Lib Dems don't, viz leading the gerrymandering of any vote of no confidence in the Commons and the packing of a House of Lords they allegedly wanted to replace. Thye are now truly the "nasty party".

[chinapig]

Des Kelly in today's Mail:

Bristol is a fine place. I've lived in various parts of London, up in Leeds and even meandered through the spray-tanned scenery of Manchester's WAGlands before electing to move to Bristol.

I found a beautiful, vibrant, historic city that offers all anyone could ever demand from a modern metropolitan centre… except for one glaring omission.

For all its Brunel and Banksy it doesn't possess a single stadium that wouldn't be improved by a wrecking ball.

Permission denied: Bristol City council blocked plans to relocate Sainsbury's to Ashton Gate in what would have been a lucrative deal

This week, the council threw out a plan to relocate a Sainsbury's store to Bristol City's dilapidated Ashton Gate, a switch that would have freed up funds to build a £92million ground nearby.

Bristol is likely to be struck from any potential World Cup plans, entertainment promoters will continue to drive to Cardiff.

What a shame. Bristol really should be bigger than that.

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz0ub2IzXt1

Anybody on here in the trade who might be able to raise Des' interest in the back story so expertly researched by Ole? Alternatively it might juts be the sort of thing that the Digger column or David Conn on the Guardian might be interested in?

Edited July 24, 2010 by chinapig

[Phileas Fogg]

Just on Football Rumours (a guilty pleasure) and strangely came across this:

"24 Jul 2010 08:27:31Bristol city news: planning application will be fast track through government, lord sansbury and family will call for the government too pass application for new sansbury at ashton gate! lord sansbury paid for conservative election campaign and has a big influence on what goes on in government due too the families financial input to the government, any more bristol city news please!"

oh and this as well!

"23 Jul 2010 23:27:20

Bristol city: lord sansbury will get ashton gate past, hole family are in polices labour/conser parties, lord sansbury paid for conserative election canpain, so to get a small planning app past will be the least the goverment will do! up the reds! up the reds!up the reds!"

Edited July 24, 2010 by Phileas Fogg

[Dollymarie]

Be nice if they could spell Sainsburys right

[CotswoldRed]

Be nice if they could spell Sainsburys right

And 'past' (passed).

[Phileas Fogg]

Be nice if they could spell Sainsburys right

also is ridiculously farfetched and wonderfully corrupt as well if it were to happen

[Cardy]

Be nice if they could spell Sainsburys right

Maybe those terrorists in the car park have blown up the 'I'........

[Webzcas]

Maybe those terrorists in the car park have blown up the 'I'........

Quality!

[BigTone]

Ooh Oooh Mr Mannering

A really daft thought really but why don't we all collectively join the Lib Dems so we can throw our full support behind our trusted colleague SR.............not

Join Us

Already, the Liberal Democrats are making a difference in government.

Changes we have spent months or years campaigning for, are about to happen.

But this isn't the end of the story.

We have always depended on the support of our members - and we still do. We've never had the big business or trade union cash the other parties can count on.

By joining the Liberal Democrats today, you can be part of the Liberal Democrat team in government. You can give us the strength to make sure this government gets on with the job of bringing real change to Britain.

[CotswoldRed]

"bringing real change to Britain"

The most meaningless soundbite in the history of mankind.

[bcfcbs20]

<br />The most meaningless soundbite in the history of mankind.

yep it should read if you want your city town or village to stagnate then join/vote lib dems at least it would be honest

[Ian M]

Be nice if they could spell Sainsburys right

....or indeed any words.

[Dollymarie]

The story was just mentioned on Points west, with the council denying everything (as you would expect)

[BigTone]

I'm sure the best sniffers in the industry are seeking out further information.

Even I'm stuck for words on that one

[AtyeoRed]

Have been following everyone's comments, watched Points West, and read the article in tonights EP.

Thoughts :- Me think they Do'th Protest to much!

Conclusion :- Guilty as Charged....... and You will not save the Green Belt either because B.C.C will cover it with Houses....

[RedUn]

A really daft thought really but why don't we all collectively join the Lib Dems so we can throw our full support behind our trusted colleague SR.............not

Join Us

Already, the Liberal Democrats are making a difference in government.

Changes we have spent months or years campaigning for, are about to happen.

But this isn't the end of the story.

We have always depended on the support of our members - and we still do. We've never had the big business or trade union cash the other parties can count on.

By joining the Liberal Democrats today, you can be part of the Liberal Democrat team in government. You can give us the strength to make sure this government gets on with the job of bringing real change to Britain.

Rayner should have heeded the maxim: "If in doubt, opt out" - as a politician he really should know that what the populace perceives him to be will have far more impact on his future than currying favour with the likes of Ferguson and the Lib Dem cohort of North Bristol councillors who have spiked the plan for AG.

Ironically, in 1975 the first time I used my vote was to oust a sitting MP who had been caught with his fingers in the till, a huge Tory majority was turned into a huge Liberal one. Largely because the new MP, the late Stephen Ross (who became Lord Ross on retirement from the HoC) was such a great bloke, I have tended to vote for that party ever since.

Until now that is.

And for what its worth I shall be writing to Nick Clegg to tell him exactly what I think of his shabby bunch of nitwits at BCC and their campaign to prevent Bristol benefitting from WC2018 and all it entails.

[REDOXO]

Rayner should have heeded the maxim: "If in doubt, opt out" - as a politician he really should know that what the populace perceives him to be will have far more impact on his future than currying favour with the likes of Ferguson and the Lib Dem cohort of North Bristol councillors who have spiked the plan for AG.

The exact point I made on the Evening Post website.

The fact is whether he ,<Rayner> is an odius man that has tried to help line the pockets of those who's pocket he is in OR a politician that has made a very por judgement of what should have been the simple decision to recuse himself at this point do not matter.

He is a tainted politician and the whole council is now in disrepute because of it...

Enjoy the march tomorrow and dont forget who not to vote for in the next election!!

[chinapig]

Ooh Oooh Mr Mannering

A really daft thought really but why don't we all collectively join the Lib Dems so we can throw our full support behind our trusted colleague SR.............not

Join Us

Already, the Liberal Democrats are making a difference in government.

Changes we have spent months or years campaigning for, are about to happen.

But this isn't the end of the story.

We have always depended on the support of our members - and we still do. We've never had the big business or trade union cash the other parties can count on.

By joining the Liberal Democrats today, you can be part of the Liberal Democrat team in government. You can give us the strength to make sure this government gets on with the job of bringing real change to Britain.

I don't remember them spending years campaigning for spending cuts and tax rises to ensure the bankers still get their bonuses. Nor for gerrymandering the Commons and packing the Lords. With their ratings down to 13% there won't be a party to join soon and they will officially become a wing of the Conservative Party.

Still little Nick is awfully busy fagging for David. Quite right a mere Westminster School millionaire should look up to an Eton one. Men of the people one and all. BTW what happened to the bit about cleaning up politics? Perhaps Mr Rayner could tell us?

[Olé]

In insisting that he had no conflict of interest, Simon Rayner asserted that he had no knowledge of any interest that his employers might have in alternative development opportunities at the Ashton Gate site. This was a ridiculous statement because he knows full well that it is the potential for opportunity which causes his conflict of interest, any actual interest would only exist once developers seek to draw up alternate designs/plans for a site freshly free of Sainsbury's application - which of course they will.

And why might Mr. Rayner believe, even sub-conciously, in the potential for his employers opportunity around the planning/design of an alternative development at Ashton Gate? Well, because besides successful major partnerships with the George Ferguson led firm already drawing up plans for Ashton Gate as outlined last week, even the briefest research turns up the following projects (some multi-million pound) which Rayner's firm has worked on either in South Bristol or within 2 miles of Ashton Gate:

• UWE Faculty of Art, Media & Design Ashton Campus (Bower Ashton) 0.5m
  
• Aardman Animation Studios, Gas Ferry Road 0.8m
  
• SS Great Britain Visitors Centre 0.8m
  
• Capricorn Quay 0.9m
  
• Horizon House, Deanery Lane 1m
  
• St. Georges Road 1.2m
  
• RNIB Centre for the Visually Impaired (Bedmnster) 1.3m
  
• Venturers House 1.3m
  
• Redcliffe Wharf 1.4m
  
• Queen Square 1.4m
  
• City Learning Centre, Hungerford Road (Brislington) 3.6m
  

And these are only the ones publicised. Can he really keep clinging onto the notion that it is a conspiracy theory to suggest he might have been a bit more professional about recognising the potential for a conflict of interest, when he works for a firm that specialises in the design of green-thinking mixed-use and residential developments exactly as advocated by Ferguson and others eyeing up Ashton Gate, a firm that has previously partnered with Ferguson, and who have a portfolio of major work near Ashton Gate.

Over to you Mr. Rayner.

[CotswoldRed]

In insisting that he had no conflict of interest, Simon Rayner asserted that he had no knowledge of any interest that his employers might have in alternative development opportunities at the Ashton Gate site. This was a ridiculous statement because he knows full well that it is the potential for opportunity which causes his conflict of interest, any actual interest would only exist once developers seek to draw up alternate designs/plans for a site freshly free of Sainsbury's application - which of course they will.

And why might Mr. Rayner believe, even sub-conciously, in the potential for his employers opportunity around the planning/design of an alternative development at Ashton Gate? Well, because besides successful major partnerships with the George Ferguson led firm already drawing up plans for Ashton Gate as outlined last week, even the briefest research turns up the following projects (some multi-million pound) which Rayner's firm has worked on either in South Bristol or within 2 miles of Ashton Gate:

• UWE Faculty of Art, Media & Design Ashton Campus (Bower Ashton) 0.5m
• Aardman Animation Studios, Gas Ferry Road 0.8m
• SS Great Britain Visitors Centre 0.8m
• Capricorn Quay 0.9m
• Horizon House, Deanery Lane 1m
• St. Georges Road 1.2m
• RNIB Centre for the Visually Impaired (Bedmnster) 1.3m
• Venturers House 1.3m
• Redcliffe Wharf 1.4m
• Queen Square 1.4m
• City Learning Centre, Hungerford Road (Brislington) 3.6m

And these are only the ones publicised. Can he really keep clinging onto the notion that it is a conspiracy theory to suggest he might have been a bit more professional about recognising the potential for a conflict of interest, when he works for a firm that specialises in the design of green-thinking mixed-use and residential developments exactly as advocated by Ferguson and others eyeing up Ashton Gate, a firm that has previously partnered with Ferguson, and who have a portfolio of major work near Ashton Gate.

Over to you Mr. Rayner.

Nice on Ole.

I don't think we'll be hearing any meaningful retort any time soon.

[BCAGFC]

Hmmm, Venturers House.

I wonder?.

BCAGFC

Edited July 26, 2010 by BCAGFC

[Guest Daz555]

I suppose when I look at this from a perspective where the needs of BCFC are ignored (which I assume is the case for the planners who consider the application in isolation) I ask myself "should Ashton/Bedminster" have a hypermarket which dwarfs even Asda at Cribbs".

The answer is 100% NO. As a result I can understand why it was rejected (suspicion of corruption aside).

Back to City - if this really is the end for hopes of supermarket dosh, what next for the plans to develop a new ground? Has Lansdown got any backup plans I wonder?

[Guest Daz555]

Also, on the subject of the planning application, I read on the BASICS site that City did not send any of its top brass to the planning meeting. Is that not a little odd?

[hinsleburg]

Also, on the subject of the planning application, I read on the BASICS site that City did not send any of its top brass to the planning meeting. Is that not a little odd?

no because it was sainsburys application not citys

[Drew Peacock]

Anyone reported him to the RIBA standards committee yet?

[Dolman Block B]

Also, on the subject of the planning application, I read on the BASICS site that City did not send any of its top brass to the planning meeting. Is that not a little odd?

Origanally i thought that, but this was Saisburys baby, and although we obviously had a massive interest, City top brass really couldnt have put their pennysworth in could they?

[Kid in the Riot]

To report Simon Rayner's conflict of interest, if we really want to hit him where it hurts then I would urge everyone to contact the Chief Exec of BCC:

The Chief Executive is Jan Ormondroyd. Email: jan.ormondroyd@bristol.gov.uk

[Abraham Romanovich]

To report Simon Rayner's conflict of interest, if we really want to hit him where it hurts then I would urge everyone to contact the Chief Exec of BCC:

The Chief Executive is Jan Ormondroyd. Email: jan.ormondroyd@bristol.gov.uk

Sorry to be pedantic the above is out of date

Barbara JANKE - Leader of Lib Dems/Council

Upper Maisonette, 24 Caledonia Place, Clifton, Bristol, BS8 4DL

barbara.janke@bristol.gov.uk

Party: Lib Dem

Ward: CLIFTON

Taken from the council website , not that it will do a great deal of good I sent an email on Saturday and have yet to receive a reply or even an acknowledgement .

Edited July 26, 2010 by Abraham Romanovich

[Kid in the Riot]

Sorry to be pedantic the above is out of date

Barbara JANKE - Leader of Lib Dems/Council

Upper Maisonette, 24 Caledonia Place, Clifton, Bristol, BS8 4DL

barbara.janke@bristol.gov.uk

Party: Lib Dem

Ward: CLIFTON

Taken from the council website , not that it will do a great deal of good I sent an email on Saturday and have yet to receive a reply or even an acknowledgement .

Thanks for that.

I got info from here: http://www.bristol.gov.uk/ccm/content/Council-Democracy/senior-management-of-bristol-city-council.en;jsessionid=AD65BCA71AD28A183062D904B1FBEDC5.tcwwwaplaws1

Obviously out of date though...

[Kid in the Riot]

Here is the form you need to fill out for an allegation of misconduct by a Committee member:

http://www.bristol.g...mplaint-form.en

Ole has provided us with the facts, let's sort this Rayner chap out. He's not fit for council.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Kid in the Riot

[myol'man]

Has Mr Rayner got a partner at all? Bet she or he is fun.

He's friendly with Stephen Williams MP

[myol'man]

I saw on one of the BASICS / HOLA / FROGS / DRAG anti stadium blogs;

"it would have been nice if it was a Waitrose"

[Nibor]

Here is the form you need to fill out for an allegation of misconduct by a Committee member:

http://www.bristol.g...mplaint-form.en

Ole has provided us with the facts, let's sort this Rayner chap out. He's not fit for council.

http://www.bristol.gov.uk/ccm/cms-service/stream/asset/?asset_id=18958067

That's the code of conduct you must couch your complain in terms of.

Under Section 8 paragraph a) sub-section iii) Councillor Simon Rayner had an interest in the business of the planning application since his employers were likely to be involved in alternative developments as proposed by one of the lead protagonists.

That interest went undeclared breaching Section 9.

Under section 10 it is likely that a member of the public would view such an interest as likely to prejudice judgement in the matter.

Councillor Rayner did not withdraw from the meeting as required by Section 12 paragraph a) and in fact chaired the meeting improperly influencing the decision made breaching paragraph c).

At the very least Councillor Rayner breached the overall principles of public life by placing himself in a position where his honesty and integrity were questionable.

It should be noted that Councillor Benyon withdrew from the meeting citing merely being a fan of the football club as an interest, with no potential for personal gain or gain of his employers other than enjoyment of watching a successful Bristol football team.

It is also possible should you be unhappy with the handling of your complaint to complain to the local government obudsman. http://www.lgo.org.uk/

Have fun folks.

[havanatopia]

http://www.bristol.g...set_id=18958067

That's the code of conduct you must couch your complain in terms of.

Under Section 8 paragraph a) sub-section iii) Councillor Simon Rayner had an interest in the business of the planning application since his employers were likely to be involved in alternative developments as proposed by one of the lead protagonists.

That interest went undeclared breaching Section 9.

Under section 10 it is likely that a member of the public would view such an interest as likely to prejudice judgement in the matter.

Councillor Rayner did not withdraw from the meeting as required by Section 12 paragraph a) and in fact chaired the meeting improperly influencing the decision made breaching paragraph c).

At the very least Councillor Rayner breached the overall principles of public life by placing himself in a position where his honesty and integrity were questionable.

It should be noted that Councillor Benyon withdrew from the meeting citing merely being a fan of the football club as an interest, with no potential for personal gain or gain of his employers other than enjoyment of watching a successful Bristol football team.

It is also possible should you be unhappy with the handling of your complaint to complain to the local government obudsman. http://www.lgo.org.uk/

Have fun folks.

Well done.

[Barrs Court Red]

Like the sound of that Cynic, I truely hope you post it on here.

I think this story has made Bristol wake up to the fact that these Liberal morons have little to offer the City, unless you like wearing sandles, cycle or belong to a special interest group.

[havanatopia]

We are being monitored on here (it's apparently an orchestrated and vindictive attack on councillors) so it's best not to say too much - but my god, they are very very low quality and there for the taking if Sainsbury's and the club push.

who is monitoring?.. the council on here?.. i would be very surprised if they were not.

[Kid in the Riot]

We are being monitored on here (it's apparently an orchestrated and vindictive attack on councillors) so it's best not to say too much - but my god, they are very very low quality and there for the taking if Sainsbury's and the club push.

My feelings too, I am going to be going to town on this over the next week and I would urge others to do the same.

The facts are there to see and a conserted effort could see us get a real result.

As much as I'd love to see the club appeal and go for costs, it would actually be far better and quicker to resubmit to BCC and gain approval that way. If we protest hard enough then there's no way they'd refuse it twice at Committee. No bias chair for starters...

[havanatopia]

Like the sound of that Cynic, I truely hope you post it on here.

I think this story has made Bristol wake up to the fact that these Liberal morons have little to offer the City, unless you like wearing sandles, cycle or belong to a special interest group.

Makes you want the Labour bunch back in... crikey i never thought i would even think that let alone suggest it! The thing you get with the blues and the reds, whomever you agree with is, usually, principled conviction politics. the middle of the road bunch give you this holier than thou carp and end up doing nothing.

it should be remembered that the two Conservative Councillors, as i understand it, voted in favour of the scheme. To be applauded. Correct me if i am wrong please.

[GrahamC]

Like the sound of that Cynic, I truely hope you post it on here.

I think this story has made Bristol wake up to the fact that these Liberal morons have little to offer the City, unless you like wearing sandles, cycle or belong to a special interest group.

I heard Barbara Janke on the radio today saying that the club were trying to "browbeat" councilllors, so I googled her,

" Janke was born in Liverpool and formerly taught economics and modern languages in London. She first became active in politics while in Scotland, before becoming a Councillor and then deputy Leader in Kingston upon Thames Council in the early 90's".

Christ, yet another non Bristolian and yet another who doesn't represent South Bristol, you guessed, it's Clifton again..............

[Barrs Court Red]

Makes you want the Labour bunch back in... crikey i never thought i would even think that let alone suggest it! The thing you get with the blues and the reds, whomever you agree with is, usually, principled conviction politics. the middle of the road bunch give you this holier than thou carp and end up doing nothing.

it should be remembered that the two Conservative Councillors, as i understand it, voted in favour of the scheme. To be applauded. Correct me if i am wrong please.

See this to me is the big problem with town council politics. It's so party political. I'd much rather see a mayor with an elected senate of sorts, one full of good willed locals not distracted by national issues and having a need to reflect a party doctrine,

[Nibor]

I would encourage people to be aware of all of the tools open to them.

For example:

- the Freedom of Information act can be used to ask all sorts of questions that the council must answer (see http://www.whatdotheyknow.com).

Someone who is corrupt in one matter is likely be corrupt in others...

I believe official correspondence is also fair game - it might be interesting to see correspondence between liberal councillors and the public or each other concerning the stadium and supermarket.

- it is possible to write to your MP (see http://www.writetothem.com) and let them know how the liberals are holding back Bristol

This may be particularly effective if you are in the unfortunate position of having a Liberal MP?

I'm sure there are more ways we can put pressure on.

[Nibor]

As I understand it section 10.(2) (b) saves Mr. Rayner although I think he should have stepped down due to the moral conflict of Mr. Benyons decision.

I don't think so. The permission being refused relates to his employer who would be reasonably considered to be "likely" to gain from a mixed use development as vociferously advocated by Ferguson. Employer is an interest covered by section 8.

[CotswoldRed]

I heard Barbara Janke on the radio today saying that the club were trying to "browbeat" councilllors, so I googled her,

She'd do well to remember that Sextone isn't another useless politician that can be abused like its a slanging match in the House of Commons. He's a well liked and respected board member of Bristol's biggest club - one which represents and huge number of Bristol people.

It seems the Liberals are far better at antogonising people than actually achieving anything that makes a positive difference to people's lives. But then, that's the hallmark of liberalism for me - just a talking shop.

[Guest]

who is monitoring?.. the council on here?.. i would be very surprised if they were not.

I expect the list is vast and wide. There are plenty of sign ups in recent days that certainly have made me raise my eyebrows.

For sure this place is being watched and traffic is up well over 50% per day at moment. But a lot of the really good information is being kept off here and emails/pm's are flying around.

[BCAGFC]

I expect the list is vast and wide. There are plenty of sign ups in recent days that certainly have made me raise my eyebrows.

For sure this place is being watched and traffic is up well over 50% per day at moment. But a lot of the really good information is being kept off here and emails/pm's are flying around.

You could always ban then a few days before it all kicks off.

Just like they hid their best stuff a week or so before the last meeting, what goes around comes around.

Let's all be careful and not give them any ammunition to shut us down as we all know how powerful the Venturers are.

BCAGFC

Edited August 2, 2010 by TomF

[havanatopia]

See this to me is the big problem with town council politics. It's so party political. I'd much rather see a mayor with an elected senate of sorts, one full of good willed locals not distracted by national issues and having a need to reflect a party doctrine,

Absolutely agree with that; local councils, once upon a time, were far less political.

i am not sure this decision is entirely about politics though; more some form of misunderstood prioritisation of what is more important allied, perhaps or allegedly, to other motives.

I hope it is all laid bare asap, because time is money for SL.

[Kid in the Riot]

I expect the list is vast and wide. There are plenty of sign ups in recent days that certainly have made me raise my eyebrows.

For sure this place is being watched and traffic is up well over 50% per day at moment. But a lot of the really good information is being kept off here and emails/pm's are flying around.

Good, hope they are all watching. Hoped they watched 300 fans march on Sunday.

Hopefully they are getting an idea of just how f*cking angry we are

[havanatopia]

Can I have their balls please?

Is that some sort of kinky dish you serve up in sweden?

I think I'll go to Norway now instead then!

[Nibor]

One thing that people in high places who like to keep secrets should always remember:

Don't upset the geeks. It is far more trouble than you might realise.

Bit too late now though.

[havanatopia]

I expect the list is vast and wide. There are plenty of sign ups in recent days that certainly have made me raise my eyebrows.

For sure this place is being watched and traffic is up well over 50% per day at moment. But a lot of the really good information is being kept off here and emails/pm's are flying around.

we like VAST and WIDE Tom. That sounds impressive.. any sniffing around in London required such as research you just let me know and i'll be in like Flynn.

[Guest oldfield]

Letter in EP

Barbara Janke

[Barrs Court Red]

"The football club and its wealthey chairman". In other words " he could pay for it if he wants to". Exactly the same reasoning of the Red Trouserd **** when he was banging on about his "eco" homes.

[Avalonred]

Oh dear, she's not a happy bunny!

Did they all go crying to teacher?

[Dollymarie]

If she favours it, where does she expect the bloody money to come from!

In this world that's drowning in debt, why would she want the football club owing Lansdown even more when that doesn't need to happen. She just doesn't get it does she?

[Webzcas]

It appears that many councillors do not get it. Instead they are more concerned that the new stadium could look like a big red brothel, or that Sainsbury's car park could harbour car bombs planted by terrorists.

Furthermore, this council is not being asked to contribute any of the funding. As for the Liberal party, well it is clear they sell their souls to the devil if the price is right. Otherwise, why would they have formed a coalition government with the Tory party?

The decision by the council stinks. There is most definately an air of foul play, in the fact that Rayner has links to Ferguson. I really hope Sainsbury appeal this decision and a public enquiry is then held.

[CotswoldRed]

Don't tell them that all Councillor's computers are visible to everyone else because of the "007 IP Circumventer".

We can see everything they're doing via the secret members area.

[Olé]

Okay, next up this morning, Pete Levy, another of our friendly Liberal Democrat NO voters.

Someone stated in the busy day following the council decision that his business was registered to the Tobacco Factory - I have found no evidence to support this and therefore Mr. Levy deserves an apology. His firm was previously based at PaintWorks, a development to which George Ferguson and Ferguson-Mann were contributing partners, but that is a very small and tenuous link which might only suggest a minor appreciation and support for Ferguson's architectural and development ideas.

However, Mr. Levy is also a board member, vice-chair and former chair of Bristol Media, a group setup to champion the creative agencies in Bristol. In various places Levy even describes this role as supporting the creative community in the city. And where better place to support them than the number of creative firms who ARE based in and registered to the Tobacco Factory? Levy supports firms who are hosted by Ferguson - that must be good for a bit of sympathetic voting for Ferguson's point of view?

Apparently there IS a declarable conflict of interest if you happen to be just one among the thousands who support a football team that stand to gain, but there ISN'T if you are one in, err, just two people to have held the role of chair and vice-chair of a group that is responsible for supporting the interests of 3500 creative firms including those based in the Tobacco Factory. The other person to hold both roles just happens to have founded a firm which was previously, err... the biggest tennant of the Tobacco Factory.

So no danger of Mr. Levy not knowing about his friends in the Tobacco Factory - and in turn George Ferguson's point of view - when he sits alongside this well established former tenant of George as a fellow Bristol Media director and former chair, in their collective role as figureheads for the interests of local creative firms, whether based at the Tobacco Factory, Paintworks, or anywhere else which might appreciate Ferguson's role in these developments. Is it in their interests for George to get his way or not?

To be clear, I don't see any potential for commercial interest here in the way Simon Rayner quite clearly should have declared, but at the very least you can see good reason why Levy, immensely loyal to the Bristol design community and it's supporters like George, would have wanted to identify with George's point of view.

[CotswoldRed]

Good work Sir.

Whilst its good to hear some background I'm not sure this has legs for long run. Probably to easy to wriggle out of.

As you infer, it might be better to concentrate efforts on the most striking conflicts.

[bcfcbs20]

has anyone looked at our councillors expenses im sure they would hate an expenses scandal breaking out

[CotswoldRed]

has anyone looked at our councillors expenses im sure they would hate an expenses scandal breaking out

Not sure they get housing expenses, they're not bad enough yet to be MPs.

I wonder how much they like to spend on buffets though and who they share them with?

[SC_Red]

Letter in EP

Barbara Janke

slanderous lies?

doesnt list them though does she. Perhaps she could so we can see what is and isnt true.

If councillors aren't mandated by their political groups on the council how come they all voted the same way? Co-incidence? How come all Lib Dems voted in support of former Lib Dem candidate George Ferguson? Co-incidence?

Its all well and good telling us what you have done Babs. How about answering the questions about what you havent done.

And what has Lansdown's wealth got to do with anything?

[cheese]

I wonder where my old friend rented a house from Rayner is to?

Anyone know?

Also who is her letter addressed to Dear Sir?, does she not realise that Women may work in the Evening post as well. Or is she addressing us? If so even worse.

Indeed, in fact letters to the newspaper should be address as just "Sir", no dear about it. But then, I suppose the world moves on.

[SC_Red]

one of the comments says councillors have recieved death threats.

do they not moderate the comments at all? Unbelieveable that they allow unsubstantiated bullcrap like that on there.

[CotswoldRed]

She could say people have been camped outside councillor's houses because we can't confirm something DIDN'T happen. She can make the whole thing up. She's hardly going to be impartial in her representation of events - she's a politician.

I'm sure plenty of people have sent unfair emails and the like, but I bet the number of truly abusive messages are few, but she'll use this to characterise all of us and to suggest that these are SL's heavies. Nonsense.

The people of Bristol are the victims here not them.

And to suggest those that voted agianst actually want the stadium is rubbish. How would anyone with a dusting of intelligence plan for a stadium to be bulit then (almost literally) vote for the foundations to be removed. I don't buy this in any way, shape or form. If I'm being polite and they do still want the stadium then they are treating SL as a mug and with contempt in the belief he was going to pay for it all along.

Either way you can't trust 'em.

(Disclaimer: I'm not stirring up hatred.)

[reddoc]

Good work Sir.

Whilst its good to hear some background I'm not sure this has legs for long run. Probably to easy to wriggle out of.

As you infer, it might be better to concentrate efforts on the most striking conflicts.

Yep but unless you're Mandelson, one way or another in politics mud definately tends to stick. If we concentrate purely on the Rayner/Ferg connection and the lawyers and PR guys come up with a trump card we're a bit screwed. If on the other hand all four of them are implicated no matter how tenuously the support teams will be more thinly spread and less capable of concentrating their own efforts on a singular line of defence.

Basically, keep them chasing shadows and wondering what Ole and friends are going to unearth next. They'll sleep less well.

[eskay]

[Nibor]

I am concerned that we have a council leader that doesn't understand what the word "bullying" means.

How can one bully a person who is in power?

[CotswoldRed]

If we opposed the project in any way, would we have:

● Agreed to hand over more than £4 million of land to the football club in return for community benefits, including access to sporting facilities?

● Made concessions on the normal requirement for section 106 payments?

● Pumped £250,000 of council funds and hundreds of hours of officer time and effort into the 2018 World Cup bid?

● Backed this year's World Cup by screening matches in Queen Square at a cost of up to £80,00

Yes, if you thought SL was going to pay for the stadium out of his own pocket.

Edited July 27, 2010 by CotswoldRed

[SC_Red]

If we opposed the project in any way, why would we have:

● Agreed to hand over more than £4 million of land to the football club in return for community benefits, including access to sporting facilities?

● Made concessions on the normal requirement for section 106 payments?

● Pumped £250,000 of council funds – and hundreds of hours of officer time and effort – into the 2018 World Cup bid?

● Backed this year's World Cup by screening matches in Queen Square at a cost of up to £80,00

the obvious reply to Babs is:

I dont know. You tell us.

Edited July 27, 2010 by SC_Red