BarneyCity Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Last season KM managed for 11 games during which time the form guide suggested that we were as good as any in the top six - somewhat better than GJ had managed for a while, and a fantastic turnaround - and guaranteed championship football. this season after the first 11 games where we got 6 points in very difficult circumstances - since that moment despite ups and downs fot 19 games, nearly half a seasom KM has given our club football that the form guide again suggests is at a level of 7th in the championship. so whilst all the keyboard warriors and non attendees whinge a liitle perspective is in order - KM has brought stability to a club that had stagnated under johnson, and let down by coppell - who do yo people want that would bring a better return than KM did last year and has done fot the majority of this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Last season KM managed for 11 games during which time the form guide suggested that we were as good as any in the top six - somewhat better than GJ had managed for a while, and a fantastic turnaround - and guaranteed championship football. this season after the first 11 games where we got 6 points in very difficult circumstances - since that moment despite ups and downs fot 19 games, nearly half a seasom KM has given our club football that the form guide again suggests is at a level of 7th in the championship. so whilst all the keyboard warriors and non attendees whinge a liitle perspective is in order - KM has brought stability to a club that had stagnated under johnson, and let down by coppell - who do yo people want that would bring a better return than KM did last year and has done fot the majority of this year We've had a lot of very shocking home defeats under Keith Millen this season. Not all his fault I know and the 0-4 away win against Preston today suggests that Millen may surprise us again - hopefully - by trouncing the once mighty Leeds next Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 i'm sorry but it is only schizophrenic forum members who actually see the numbers of Millen haters that people like you imagine. I see a few Millen haters and that is all, the majority that you refer to as Millen haters are actually Millen doubters a big difference and unfortunately on this forum if you doubt him you are demonized as a hater by the more radicalized Millen militia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 As the 3.40 at Sountwell, first time with blinkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarneyCity Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 As the 3.40 at Sountwell, first time with blinkers. Uhm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Last season KM managed for 11 games during which time the form guide suggested that we were as good as any in the top six - somewhat better than GJ had managed for a while, and a fantastic turnaround - and guaranteed championship football. this season after the first 11 games where we got 6 points in very difficult circumstances - since that moment despite ups and downs fot 19 games, nearly half a seasom KM has given our club football that the form guide again suggests is at a level of 7th in the championship. so whilst all the keyboard warriors and non attendees whinge a liitle perspective is in order - KM has brought stability to a club that had stagnated under johnson, and let down by coppell - who do yo people want that would bring a better return than KM did last year and has done fot the majority of this year Plus, I think the KM out brigade should remember that last seasons Championship top scorer hasnt spent one minute on the pitch for KM. That is a MASSIVE lost, imagine where 15 Maynard goals may have put us in the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Plus, I think the KM out brigade should remember that last seasons Championship top scorer hasnt spent one minute on the pitch for KM. That is a MASSIVE lost, imagine where 15 Maynard goals may have put us in the table. Millen out brigade or misrepresented Millen doubters?, as I said I have only seen a few 'Millen out brigade' but a lot of Millen doubters, big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Esmond keep taking the tablets schizophrenic comments, nasty and quick, you do neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Millen out brigade or misrepresented Millen doubters?, as I said I have only seen a few 'Millen out brigade' but a lot of Millen doubters, big difference. Well there's a poll on the forum somewhere where 40 odd% want Millen out. So that tells me there's more than a few out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Uhm? Ask a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarneyCity Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Ask a friend. great contribution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Well there's a poll on the forum somewhere where 40 odd% want Millen out. So that tells me there's more than a few out there. But only few who are vocal about it, about as many who blow smoke up his arse for any excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Millen out brigade or misrepresented Millen doubters?, as I said I have only seen a few 'Millen out brigade' but a lot of Millen doubters, big difference. Just looked it up, 83 forum users want KM sacked, there's no "doubting" from them, they want him sacked. Those are the facts, unless they lied in the poll !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 There are quite a few of the people I think you are calling "Millen Doubters" who have called for his head on quite a few occassions, Putting "I hope I'm proved wrong" doesn't change the general point of peoples posts. I don't like threads like this, it's pathetic because if we lose heavily to Leeds a member of the "Millen Doubters" will bring this back up... It's getting very childish lately Totally agree. Threads like these just cause more animosity and achieve nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 But only few who are vocal about it, about as many who blow smoke up his arse for any excuse. That's the first time "vocal" has been mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 great contribution Blinkers in horse world, you only think and see one way, and you think that may help your'e horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarneyCity Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Totally agree. Threads like these just cause more animosity and achieve nothing. I'm sorry about the achieve nothing, in general I wanted to point out the difference between the reality of KM's games against what gets posted on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarneyCity Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 Blinkers in horse world, you only think and see one way, and you think that may help your'e horse. so my view is blimkered -- I think the facts I laid out at the beginning speak for themselves - I've not seen a suggestion of a name who on these resources would have done what millen has done. If the end of last yr and this last 19 games were together we'd be about the playoff's. add in Maynard - seems a pretty solid track record for a rooky manager to me - so who else would have achieved more in these difficult circumstances # Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I'm sorry about the achieve nothing, in general I wanted to point out the difference between the reality of KM's games against what gets posted on here My point blinkers, so we agree, whatever s happen to this club they will find something to argue and moan about.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I'm sorry about the achieve nothing, in general I wanted to point out the difference between the reality of KM's games against what gets posted on here Fair enough. The reality is we have been on a terrible run getting sucked closer to the relegation zone. Thankfully that has now been ended by a terrific win which I personally did not expect. If we stay up I'll be happy and hopefully next season we won't suffer as we have this season with the ridiculous amount of injuries etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 How has Millen got us 7th in the form guide after 19 games? Are you picking the games out to get us to 7th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 i'm sorry but it is only schizophrenic forum members who actually see the numbers of Millen haters that people like you imagine. I see a few Millen haters and that is all, the majority that you refer to as Millen haters are actually Millen doubters a big difference and unfortunately on this forum if you doubt him you are demonized as a hater by the more radicalized Millen militia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Think any Millen viterol is a typical result of the spoilt mentality: 'I want it, now!' culture we're living in. Unfortunately situations of this magnitude can't be pinged in a microwave but given the absurd money demanded to buy into watching the shite it is understandable. Long term Millen may not be the managerial solution but given the circumstances there seems little point in particular negativety unless people were realistically expecting a dramatic upturn in fortune, in which case they were been badly deluded. This 'Millen Haters' shit would just cause more anomosity and division an I'll admit to being dissapointed on his appointment but he now has my support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 There are quite a few of the people I think you are calling "Millen Doubters" who have called for his head on quite a few occassions, Putting "I hope I'm proved wrong" doesn't change the general point of peoples posts. I don't like threads like this, it's pathetic because if we lose heavily to Leeds a member of the "Millen Doubters" will bring this back up... It's getting very childish lately I don't agree with all of your posts Mr. Tansley, but in this case I do. It is very much tit-for-tat. It's getting to be a desperate quest for 'oneupmanship' between the two sides of the fence, based on the latest result. ...And for the record, I am not a "Millen doubter". I am a "Millen Out" man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 so my view is blimkered -- I think the facts I laid out at the beginning speak for themselves - I've not seen a suggestion of a name who on these resources would have done what millen has done. If the end of last yr and this last 19 games were together we'd be about the playoff's. add in Maynard - seems a pretty solid track record for a rooky manager to me - so who else would have achieved more in these difficult circumstances # We,ve played 30 games this season, 29 under Millen, and we're fighting relegation. How has Millen got us 7th in the form guide after 19 games? Are you picking the games out to get us to 7th? I believe he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I'm firmly in the "should never have been appointed in the first place" camp... ...now we're stuck with him I either want him to confound my expectations and be brilliant (not happening so far but yesterday was a step in the right direction) - or for if things don't improve he should be replaced with the sort of manager we were told we were appointing when Coppell got the job...a man of experience who can take the club forward. Who that is would depend on who was available. Lansdown implied they were queuing at his door when he appointed Coppell. That doesn't make me a "Millen hater". I wish the man well. I'd prefer the first scenario. But I think Lansdown took a gamble and as a consequence has delivered a season of largely poor football. Time is running out for performances to suggest anything other than a season of not merely stagnation but a reverse. As for the non-attendee dig...I wasn't in Preston - I was there last time we played at Deepdale - but no one could have been more pleased to hear the 2nd, 3rd and 4th goals go in yesterday. Travel to matches is something that I'm sure many people on here find hard. That's why they are posting on here during games. The reasons are many I'm sure - but from where I live Preston is an overnight. Must have cost well over £100 for me and my son last year. Despite the late Preston recovery last season I was happy to spend that for a great day out. There haven't been many great days out this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fka dagest Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 'Millen haters' is a ridiculous term. I don't suppose many on here have an issue with Keith on a personal level. Ultimately we all want what is best for the club but our opinions differ on whether Keith is the best man to take us forward. Personally, I'm a doubter, but I can't help that. An element of doubt merely means I'm not 100% confident in him. Is anyone? Keith leaves me feeling confused. I really can't work out our trajectory under Keith, in general it seems downwards, but we all recognise the mitigating circumstances and there are signs of improvement in some respects. All I can say is that the more time goes on, the more the old excuses become irrelevant. For the record, I like many others would like nothing more than to see Keith create a successful team. I also agree with Jordan, but also I don't want anyone to quote me on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Keith leaves me feeling confused. I really can't work out our trajectory under Keith, in general it seems downwards, but we all recognise the mitigating circumstances and there are signs of improvement in some respects. All I can say is that the more time goes on, the more the old excuses become irrelevant. For the record, I like many others would like nothing more than to see Keith create a successful team. The squad he inherited got 6 points from the first 10 games. Since he has been able to shape it more to his own liking we have taken 30 points from 20 games. Where is the downward trajectory? It only really exists in that five game spell starting with Sheff Wed cup match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_Lemon Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I always find it funny how a 4-0 loss and how 90% of people go mad and talk of relegation. Those who want Millen Out contribute their feelings known on forum at the time. As for a 3-0 win or a 4-0 win such as yesterday it seems to be talk of safety and doing ok. Have not really met a bunch of fickle fans around the country than City fans (But Rovers are actually worse in my opinion with a win talk of promotion, lose take of finishing bottom!). We always seem to be standing on the edge of the knife with our views after a game. I said start of the season KM will do ok with us, we will be in for a bumpy ride, which we have! And for the position he has been dropped in Im proud of Keith for doing what he has. With Maynard back soon Im hoping he can contribute at least 8-10 goals for us, which I do hope will steer us towards mid-table. IF KM has a massive clear out in the summer, and brings in the right players for the right job and position, this time in 2 years hopefully we will be challenging for promotion with KM at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I don't think Millen is a bad manager ... but he isn't a great manager either. So, I suppose it depends if we're happy to maintain as a mediocre Championship club - because I believe he has the skill to keep us up - or if we want to make another push for the hallowed ground of the Premier League. The only league that counts, if you believe some newspapers He's certainly, proving to be a cannier performer in the transfer and loan markets than his old mentor. I think Woolford will prove to be a great signing - he's made a soiund start already. So, I'm certainly not a h8er (as I believe young people would term it! ) and I've never advocated sacking the bloke, but I do think there are long-term questions about Milly's tenure here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I always find it funny how a 4-0 loss and how 90% of people go mad and talk of relegation. Those who want Millen Out contribute their feelings known on forum at the time. As for a 3-0 win or a 4-0 win such as yesterday it seems to be talk of safety and doing ok. Have not really met a bunch of fickle fans around the country than City fans (But Rovers are actually worse in my opinion with a win talk of promotion, lose take of finishing bottom!). We always seem to be standing on the edge of the knife with our views after a game. I said start of the season KM will do ok with us, we will be in for a bumpy ride, which we have! And for the position he has been dropped in Im proud of Keith for doing what he has. With Maynard back soon Im hoping he can contribute at least 8-10 goals for us, which I do hope will steer us towards mid-table. IF KM has a massive clear out in the summer, and brings in the right players for the right job and position, this time in 2 years hopefully we will be challenging for promotion with KM at the helm. You dont expect much do you!! , He will probably only start 6 or 7 games at the most. 2 or 3 goals would be nice IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Fair enough. The reality is we have been on a terrible run getting sucked closer to the relegation zone. Thankfully that has now been ended by a terrific win which I personally did not expect. If we stay up I'll be happy and hopefully next season we won't suffer as we have this season with the ridiculous amount of injuries etc. Things is despite the terrible run, we didnt really get sucked any closer. After qpr, we were 6 points clear, after Swansea we were 5 points clear.....now we are 8 Ok our run 4 games without a win or a goal was bad, but i stand by my 2 points that Ive stuck to all season as why we won't go down 1) with our best defenders fit and starting we can beat anyone in this division. (look at the defeats and I bet in the vast majority defence contains hunt, Cisse or stewart) 2) there are MUCH worse teams in this division that us, Preston, Scunny and Sheffield U, are still my tips to go down, we had a terrible run and no one below us could capatilse As for next season totally agree, without the likes of Sproule, LJ, Gerken, Hunt and Stewart all hopefully far away, if Keith can add to the quality he's signed this year and get caulker for another loan season, I don't see why a top 10 finish isn't possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Well then I must be blind, because I can only see us going one way with Millen, and that's down. While the win yesterday was emphatic and probably deserved, you can't deny the fact that a bunch of schoolgirls could probably beat Preston in their current form. They're doomed, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we'll join them while Millen remains in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I'm firmly in the "should never have been appointed in the first place" camp... Isn't everyone? Regardless of people's stance on Millen( mine being that he should stay for now at least) I don't think many, if any, believe it was right to appoint him when we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Isn't everyone? Regardless of people's stance on Millen( mine being that he should stay for now at least) I don't think many, if any, believe it was right to appoint him when we did. I agree, I wish SL had pushed him harder to take the role originally rather than have the whole Coppell debacle. The signings he has made and the way he is shaping the squad now, is aking me wonder how much better off we would be if he had been given a whole summer to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Isn't everyone? Regardless of people's stance on Millen( mine being that he should stay for now at least) I don't think many, if any, believe it was right to appoint him when we did. well Phil...it's not an opinion some on here appear to share! For me the folk to blame for a dire season are sitting in the boardroom...but that's for another thread. In this thread there's a suggestion that avoiding the drop, a big clear out and a top ten finish in 2012 will be progress. On the basis of what was coming out of the club's PR department in May last year I was expecting the clear out to happen last summer and a top 10 finish the minimum this year. We've gone backwards. But hey ho...COYR and all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 well Phil...it's not an opinion some on here appear to share! For me the folk to blame for a dire season are sitting in the boardroom...but that's for another thread. In this thread there's a suggestion that avoiding the drop, a big clear out and a top ten finish in 2012 will be progress. On the basis of what was coming out of the club's PR department in May last year I was expecting the clear out to happen last summer and a top 10 finish the minimum this year. We've gone backwards. But hey ho...COYR and all that... Thing is just look at the amount of players that didmleave last summer, we had a clear out, problem is that there was so much crap that with some of the contracts players were on, it was never going to be easy, Millen has done well to get a few of them out and more will follow, but it's not been helped by the signings of hunt or Stewart who are now stuck on big long term deal. Whether millen was right who know, I'd have liked him to take then job before coppell came, but that's just talking from hindsight I suppose, I do know that the reasons for lansdown appointing Millen was right, he'd had recommendations from Johnson and coppell, he'd done a good job before and we needed some continuity, Seasons not gone great, agreed however I think we'd been even worse of if we brought a new person to the club. Still not sure who else people would have wanted, after coppell there wasn't many great options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 well Phil...it's not an opinion some on here appear to share! For me the folk to blame for a dire season are sitting in the boardroom...but that's for another thread. In this thread there's a suggestion that avoiding the drop, a big clear out and a top ten finish in 2012 will be progress. On the basis of what was coming out of the club's PR department in May last year I was expecting the clear out to happen last summer and a top 10 finish the minimum this year. We've gone backwards. But hey ho...COYR and all that... I agree that Landsdown must take a fair share of the blame and his record of appointing managers is poor, however the one success he had turned out to be a huge success. Millen being appointed just a day after Coppell's resignation was a rushed decision in my book and I do not believe it was very well thought out. I think a lot of people share that view and I genuinely believe only small minority believe it was right to appoint Millen when we did and under the circumstaces we did. However having said that, Millen has done ok. Obviously we got off to a dreadful start and looked doomed after the Cardiff game but Millen then took us on a fantastic run and deserves credit for that. What followed was a dismal run of 5 games without a goal before yesterday's terrific performance. What happens next, who knows? The fact we have given some great performances against the likes of Derby, Cardiff, Sheffield United, QPR and Preston offers hope but likewise some of the football played at the start of the season and in recent weeks has been dire. I think sacking Millen would not only be wrong but as premature as appointing him and realistically who the hell are we going to get in? I mean there's hardly an abundance of high quality managers knocking about. As someone who believes Millen should go, who would you realistically want to replace him? Because unless we splash the cash for someone like O'Driscol (who could still turn us down) I don't see many good options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I agree that Landsdown must take a fair share of the blame and his record of appointing managers is poor, however the one success he had turned out to be a huge success. Millen being appointed just a day after Coppell's resignation was a rushed decision in my book and I do not believe it was very well thought out. I think a lot of people share that view and I genuinely believe only small minority believe it was right to appoint Millen when we did and under the circumstaces we did. However having said that, Millen has done ok. Obviously we got off to a dreadful start and looked doomed after the Cardiff game but Millen then took us on a fantastic run and deserves credit for that. What followed was a dismal run of 5 games without a goal before yesterday's terrific performance. What happens next, who knows? The fact we have given some great performances against the likes of Derby, Cardiff, Sheffield United, QPR and Preston offers hope but likewise some of the football played at the start of the season and in recent weeks has been dire. I think sacking Millen would not only be wrong but as premature as appointing him and realistically who the hell are we going to get in? I mean there's hardly an abundance of high quality managers knocking about. As someone who believes Millen should go, who would you realistically want to replace him? Because unless we splash the cash for someone like O'Driscol (who could still turn us down) I don't see many good options. I'd honestly be happy for Millen to stay if he does well between now and the end of the season. I'd be amazed...but I'm perfectly happy to be amazed. I'm disappointed he was appointed in the first place, disappointed that a season has been wasted, and in truth very disappointed that as family we've had so little return on the STs... As to who should take over if he goes I think that's very hard for anyone to say until you know who'd want to do the job. There's a long list of out of work managers on the League Managers Association site... In my experience you tend to give jobs to people who both have the right qualifications and experience to suggest they'll do well (there are plenty of them out of work at the moment - and in work in the lower leagues), and the hunger to make the most of the opportunity. I think Lansdown has to get someone to advise him so we don't end up with Coppell Mark 2 And as for splashing the cash I think this is THE key appointment. If Millen goes then the next boss has to be someone who is going to deliver. But let's hope a corner has been turned, he does brilliantly, the stables are swept clean in the summer and the guys who did well yesterday turn out to be City's heroes of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 How has Millen got us 7th in the form guide after 19 games? Are you picking the games out to get us to 7th? not forgetting of course that most of the games this season Millen has 'wisely' informed us that he has an inherited squad. I suspect for the win yesterday he was finally able to field what he feels was 'his' team with a lot of the old boys so we are actually top of the table now in the 'Gatorade Spin Doctor League Championship' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I have told myself on numerous occasions not to post on this topic anymore, however I am weak willed so here I go again There are really three points I would like to get across. 1 Mr Millen's signings. GJ was consistently attacked for the calibre of his signings some of whom realistically were not that special. Then look at Mr. Millen's signings... let me enlighten...Caulker, Rose, Woolford, Keogh, Stead, Pitman, Vokes. ALL of these players are very good players. 2 Mr Millens Injuries. Despite bringing in very good players many of them were brought in just to join an injury list that included Maynard, Fontaine, Ribeiro, Carey Johnson and MacAlister and others at different times 3 The squad that was inherited was not universally of the highest standard riddled with the mistakes of two managers...At the start of the season our best Right back was Hunt!!! our only Forward was Clarkey we had a first choice central defensive pairing that included Stewart and no left footed player except MacAlister. When you look at all of this I consider the fotballing gods not only dealt the man a hand of 2s and 7s but were also kicking him in the testicles simultaneously, I personally think KM has worked close to miracles to bring things around. The bringing in of Wigley with the connections that he has was clever and then to continue to not panick drag us out of the drop zone despite all of the problems was and is amazing....The only thing I hope is that KM's luck changes as he has earned that and if he is not a lucky guy his tenure as a manger will be short lived anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Well said Oxo, agree fully For some millen is not allowed excuses regardless if they are actually relevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon79 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Imo KM is doing a good job in fairly difficult circumstances, especially for his 1st season in charge. I dont believe we will be able to judge him fully until after the 1st 10 games of next season. When he has had a chance to clear out some of the dead wood that he inherited and bring in a few more of his own signings. There will be quite a few that will be out of contract or moved on between now and the start of next season. This should help him mould and achieve what he wants in a squad. I dont think even the millen haters ( if there is such a thing?) can so far question a single signing that he has made. In fact i believe he deserves full credit in that respect along with Lansdown. I am one who strongly believes in consistency and you will never get it until you give it. So give him time and i honsetly believe he will surprise a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 remember when the Coppell appointment was made? Almost everyone said that they understood there would be a transition period and how they were prepared to give him a season or so to get a squad together. What kind of results did they think we would get during this "transition period"? We are in a period like that now and It seems people are happy with transition as long as we win every week in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 remember when the Coppell appointment was made? Almost everyone said that they understood there would be a transition period and how they were prepared to give him a season or so to get a squad together. What kind of results did they think we would get during this "transition period"? We are in a period like that now and It seems people are happy with transition as long as we win every week in the meantime. ...look, if Steve Coppell with over 1000 games as a manager under his belt says he needs a season or two to sort things out so he can repeat a job he's done with great success in the past that's one thing... ...it's very different to be asked to have faith in someone who's achieved nothing as a manager... So yes, I'd have had faith in a man of experience asking for patience..like GJ did when he started...I believed he'd turn things round. There was reason to believe. Sadly Keith's up against it cos he has no past achievements to point to and say - "trust me"... Not his fault...it's a mountain he's been asked to climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketh2nd Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I'm not here to defend Millen and claim him as a hero, however I'm happy to give Millen 2 seasons at the helm if we don't get relegated this season.He hasn't got the same chrisma as GJ which it seems a lot miss this but he is a different kind of manager although got to remember GJ had a lot of experience when he started here. From a personal point of view I'm sure I'm not the only one to be a little quiet when starting a new job and settling down , then as time goes on people will get to know you the same could happen with Millen as confidence grows. I do think these threads are pointless show boating and yet just as shameless if we loose 3-0 to Leeds( quite probable considering form/league table) the knives will be back out. There is nothing wrong with some people not feeling confident with KM at the same time nothing wrong with people wanting to give Millen more time. Not getting carried away as yes we did score 4 but against the leagues bottom team, but it's very important we take this confidence against Leeds and show this through our performance even if it doesn't show in the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 ...look, if Steve Coppell with over 1000 games as a manager under his belt says he needs a season or two to sort things out so he can repeat a job he's done with great success in the past that's one thing... ...it's very different to be asked to have faith in someone who's achieved nothing as a manager... So yes, I'd have had faith in a man of experience asking for patience..like GJ did when he started...I believed he'd turn things round. There was reason to believe. Sadly Keith's up against it cos he has no past achievements to point to and say - "trust me"... Not his fault...it's a mountain he's been asked to climb. and yet everyone was dead against johnson when he didn't turn it around instantly and because he was unproven at that level. Likes wise Tony Pulis said publically said it would take a while to turn things around and everyone was furious about it. People just want a stick to beat Millen with and for many will jump on anything they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon79 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 ...look, if Steve Coppell with over 1000 games as a manager under his belt says he needs a season or two to sort things out so he can repeat a job he's done with great success in the past that's one thing... ...it's very different to be asked to have faith in someone who's achieved nothing as a manager... So yes, I'd have had faith in a man of experience asking for patience..like GJ did when he started...I believed he'd turn things round. There was reason to believe. Sadly Keith's up against it cos he has no past achievements to point to and say - "trust me"... Not his fault...it's a mountain he's been asked to climb. So are you saying KM was doomed from the start? Because unless someone is given a chance, he will never be able too gain over 1000 games experience. So its swings and round abouts isnt it? Also, if SC said it would take a season or 2 too sort things out, was KM meant to do it in 6 months to get people on side? Everyone has to start somewhere, KM has sarted here, so lets back him. I just cant see what he has done so wrong in the time that he has had. I mean, he can only pick from the squad he has got. Every signing he has made has been a good one bar none. Even the ones that we have reportidely missed out on would of been impressive as im sure most would agree( Bednar, Jones ). So with what he has had at his disposal, i believe he has done ok. Take into account that he has not had his best player and top goalscorer from last season availble in Maynard at any point. I believe we had was it 6 or 7 of last seasons 1st eleven out injured early on in the season. When returning were lacking fitness and sharpness ( Haynes being the perfect point of this ). And i would point to one simple fact, when he has been able to put his first choice back 4 out onto the field for a few consecutive games along with most of his strongest team selection, we went onto a very good run, again without what many consider our best player, Maynard. So as i said in an earlier post, ill give him time to build his own squad and team before i make any rash decisions. One of the biggest problems in football these days are the "want it now attitudes" of many. You reap what you sow, so let KM do some sowing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I wish KM all the best, and hope he proves to be a good manager for us. However... I have had my doubts from day one of his appointment. He has learnt his trade as a coach under Tinnion and GJ. We got rid of both. So what new ideas can he bring to the Club? Ideas he has learnt from studying for his coaching badges? I would prefer someone who already has a proven track record at this level, or someone who has learnt and studied his trade under the guidence of someone who has already achieved. Gambling with the future of this Club in the Championship, with a complete Rookie, is rather foolhardy imho. If it all goes Pete Tong, I wont blame KM, just SL. He presently has a 30% win record as manager...he's going to have to up his game to succeed. My biggest worry, is motivation. Having played and coached many of the playing staff for so long, making the step up and motivating them, and gaining there respect after being one of them, is imho, the hardest hurdle to overcome. Hope he proves me wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 and yet everyone was dead against johnson when he didn't turn it around instantly and because he was unproven at that level. Likes wise Tony Pulis said publically said it would take a while to turn things around and everyone was furious about it. People just want a stick to beat Millen with and for many will jump on anything they can. I must say I always thought GJ a great appointment. I'm not sure why you're creating a myth around KM. There's very little evidence that anyone wants to beat him. I've barely read anyone saying anything other than they wish him well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I must say I always thought GJ a great appointment. I'm not sure why you're creating a myth around KM. There's very little evidence that anyone wants to beat him. I've barely read anyone saying anything other than they wish him well. Myth is exactly what is being created, like the myth that because he came top of his class for his coaching badges, he is a good coach, the evidence is otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 So are you saying KM was doomed from the start? Because unless someone is given a chance, he will never be able too gain over 1000 games experience. So its swings and round abouts isnt it? Also, if SC said it would take a season or 2 too sort things out, was KM meant to do it in 6 months to get people on side? Everyone has to start somewhere, KM has sarted here, so lets back him. I just cant see what he has done so wrong in the time that he has had. I mean, he can only pick from the squad he has got. Every signing he has made has been a good one bar none. Even the ones that we have reportidely missed out on would of been impressive as im sure most would agree( Bednar, Jones ). So with what he has had at his disposal, i believe he has done ok. Take into account that he has not had his best player and top goalscorer from last season availble in Maynard at any point. I believe we had was it 6 or 7 of last seasons 1st eleven out injured early on in the season. When returning were lacking fitness and sharpness ( Haynes being the perfect point of this ). And i would point to one simple fact, when he has been able to put his first choice back 4 out onto the field for a few consecutive games along with most of his strongest team selection, we went onto a very good run, again without what many consider our best player, Maynard. So as i said in an earlier post, ill give him time to build his own squad and team before i make any rash decisions. One of the biggest problems in football these days are the "want it now attitudes" of many. You reap what you sow, so let KM do some sowing! Not doomed...but up against it. To be honest I'm not really interested in someone "starting somewhere" at Bristol City...certainly not when I've just been told by the man who's spending my money that what we'll be watching is a push for the Prem under the guidance of one of the most experienced managers in the business. I've supported an under acheiveing win-nothing club for years. It's not that I want anything "now" - but when we're promised something more I'm desperate enough to grab at that hope... I'm not really interested in excuses. The football this year has been atrocious. What evidence is there than KM has the capacity to "build his own squad"...has he ever done that before? Nope. Good luck to him. But I'd been hoping for rather more than giving a rookie a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I must say I always thought GJ a great appointment. I'm not sure why you're creating a myth around KM. There's very little evidence that anyone wants to beat him. I've barely read anyone saying anything other than they wish him well. Indeed he was and one I totally agreed with. However not everyone felt so and alot of people hated him at first especially during the losing run and wanted him out. The eveidence against Millen is those who want him sacked as per the poll last week which was a significant amount of those that voted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Think any Millen viterol is a typical result of the spoilt mentality: 'I want it, now!' culture we're living in. Unfortunately situations of this magnitude can't be pinged in a microwave but given the absurd money demanded to buy into watching the shite it is understandable. Long term Millen may not be the managerial solution but given the circumstances there seems little point in particular negativety unless people were realistically expecting a dramatic upturn in fortune, in which case they were been badly deluded. This 'Millen Haters' shit would just cause more anomosity and division an I'll admit to being dissapointed on his appointment but he now has my support. Its totally not the 'want it now' mentality. I accept that based on results, he does not deserve the sack - I also accept that we're more likely to stay up with him in charge than if we make changes now. But long term - I want him out - I dont think he is good enough to be a manager - I hope he proves me wrong, I honestly do. But I doubt it. I hope we get a better manager in the summer, but I highly doubt that will happen. He has my support whilst he's here, despite some of the crazy things he does - I just hoping that sticking with him wont jeopardise our championship place this season or next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon79 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I wish KM all the best, and hope he proves to be a good manager for us. However... I have had my doubts from day one of his appointment. He has learnt his trade as a coach under Tinnion and GJ. We got rid of both. So what new ideas can he bring to the Club? Ideas he has learnt from studying for his coaching badges? I would prefer someone who already has a proven track record at this level, or someone who has learnt and studied his trade under the guidence of someone who has already achieved. Gambling with the future of this Club in the Championship, with a complete Rookie, is rather foolhardy imho. If it all goes Pete Tong, I wont blame KM, just SL. He presently has a 30% win record as manager...he's going to have to up his game to succeed. My biggest worry, is motivation. Having played and coached many of the playing staff for so long, making the step up and motivating them, and gaining there respect after being one of them, is imho, the hardest hurdle to overcome. Hope he proves me wrong though. I hope the fact that he has worked closely with Tinnion and GJ would be an asset, i mean hopefully he has learnt from some of their mistakes. I agree with your point on being around the place for so long, but again this could also be a positive. For example knowing them so well and how to get the best out of them, im sure KM and SL thought long and hard about that aspect of the job. I would also point out the appointment of Wigley, a very well respected experienced coach to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Myth is exactly what is being created, like the myth that because he came top of his class for his coaching badges, he is a good coach, the evidence is otherwise. Agree, coaching badges, who runs these courses, Sir Alex has not got one, but it seems it's the way forward in football, Brian Clough autobiography, " i went on a course and someone said to me this is how you should head the ball, he turned round, as long as it hits the net who cares how he heads it", different times, but imo players like Gary Neville doing his badges now is told by someone how to play the game beggars believe again imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Indeed he was and one I totally agreed with. However not everyone felt so and alot of people hated him at first especially during the losing run and wanted him out. The eveidence against Millen is those who want him sacked as per the poll last week which was a significant amount of those that voted. There were people on here who ran an active and open campaign against Gary Johnson (and his son) for months...years even. There were folk who stood and screamed abuse at one of our most successful and best loved managers from behind his dugout...at home matches! I'm not sure Keith is having to put up with anything more than people questioning his suitability for the job. He's been handed a tough brief and must have known he'd have to spend this season establishing his credentials. It's not been easy for him. I'm sure we've all been in situations like that in new jobs...it's not helped that he wasn't given the job to start with and that the guy who got it had almost everything on his CV that Keith couldn't have...except staying power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon79 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Not doomed...but up against it. To be honest I'm not really interested in someone "starting somewhere" at Bristol City...certainly not when I've just been told by the man who's spending my money that what we'll be watching is a push for the Prem under the guidance of one of the most experienced managers in the business. I've supported an under acheiveing win-nothing club for years. It's not that I want anything "now" - but when we're promised something more I'm desperate enough to grab at that hope... I'm not really interested in excuses. The football this year has been atrocious. What evidence is there than KM has the capacity to "build his own squad"...has he ever done that before? Nope. Good luck to him. But I'd been hoping for rather more than giving a rookie a chance. The evidence that he could build his own squad, is from what i see wtih my own eyes, his signings. Is there one signing that you dont rate or agree with? I agree that the dissapointment of Coppell leaving when and how he did was a massive kick in the teeth for us fans ( but hey, this is Bristol City, we dont do things the easy way!). But also i could say the same for the players, SL and quite possibly KM. But that is what happened and SL dealt with it in what he thought was the best way. With regards the excuses, they are not excuses but facts. We had a lot of injuries to a lot of 1st teamers. That would affect bigger and richer clubs than ours. I would agree that some of the play has not been good by any stretch of the memory, but there has also been some good perfformances, especially when he has a near fit squad. Because you havent done something, doesnt mean you wont! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 The evidence that he could build his own squad, is from what i see wtih my own eyes, his signings. Is there one signing that you dont rate or agree with? I agree that the dissapointment of Coppell leaving when and how he did was a massive kick in the teeth for us fans ( but hey, this is Bristol City, we dont do things the easy way!). But also i could say the same for the players, SL and quite possibly KM. But that is what happened and SL dealt with it in what he thought was the best way. With regards the excuses, they are not excuses but facts. We had a lot of injuries to a lot of 1st teamers. That would affect bigger and richer clubs than ours. I would agree that some of the play has not been good by any stretch of the memory, but there has also been some good perfformances, especially when he has a near fit squad. Because you havent done something, doesnt mean you wont! you're quite right. And I hope Keith confounds my expectations. But it's a gamble...and this season it's not payed off IMO. I believe that SL reacted too quickly to Coppell's departure and made a risky call. Time will tell what the level of risk was. I think we'll stay up this season..there are at least 3 worse teams. Keith's made some decent signings...they've not exactly set the Championship alight thus far...but given time let's hope they do in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon79 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 pleasssssssssssse change your sig Simon, it's so long!!!! Oh, they are my faves. But ok, ill look into it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon79 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 you're quite right. And I hope Keith confounds my expectations. But it's a gamble...and this season it's not payed off IMO. I believe that SL reacted too quickly to Coppell's departure and made a risky call. Time will tell what the level of risk was. I think we'll stay up this season..there are at least 3 worse teams. Keith's made some decent signings...they've not exactly set the Championship alight thus far...but given time let's hope they do in the future. He who dares Red Badger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 He who dares Red Badger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 you're quite right. And I hope Keith confounds my expectations. But it's a gamble...and this season it's not payed off IMO. I believe that SL reacted too quickly to Coppell's departure and made a risky call. Time will tell what the level of risk was. I think we'll stay up this season..there are at least 3 worse teams. Keith's made some decent signings...they've not exactly set the Championship alight thus far...but given time let's hope they do in the future. So just to clarify your not delighted with millens signings? Caulker - fantasic Pitman - made the step up from league 2 easily Stead - quality player for good fee Those 3 especially have been great signings Rose mixed bag - but more good than bad The other 2 have only been here less thsn a week but can't judge yet If we have fans who aren't happy with that then no manager stands at city with fans like ours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 So just to clarify your not delighted with millens signings? Caulker - fantasic Pitman - made the step up from league 2 easily Stead - quality player for good fee Those 3 especially have been great signings Rose mixed bag - but more good than bad The other 2 have only been here less thsn a week but can't judge yet If we have fans who aren't happy with that then no manager stands at city with fans like ours you'd pick a fight with your own shadow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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