Our Demise...

[spudski]

... is purely down to not appointing proven managers with experience and knowledge at this level imho.

I've said it many times in various threads before... but until we get that proven manager, then i'm afraid we are just going to go backwards.

It's all very well gambling with unproven managers or managers that are seen to have potential, but you have to have some stability in place for them to work with. A good backbone to the team.

We've not had that for a long time and we can't seem to attract people for the places that need addressing.

You can have as many fancy dan wingers and forwards as you like, but without that backbone and direction you're going nowhere.

Unfortunately the board and SL have gambled with the unproven Millen and Delboy and allowed the latter to imprint his ideas throughout the club.

I understand the infrastructure and Acadamy at the Club are in a far healthier position, but it seems that whatever Del trys with the first team, we take one step forward and two steps back.

I don't have the answer, and i feel for SL and the board, but after all these gambles that haven't worked, I would like to think they could find that proven manager and try a different route.

Someone who could come in and take what we have by the scruff of the neck and attract the players we need.

We seem to be collecting players again who are just a drain or either been around too long and/or are not up to scratch or surplus because we have too many in that position.

The players i would put in those catagory's are:

Foster, M Wilson,Fontaine, Nyatanga,Carey, Kilkenny, Stead, Woolford, Pitman,Morris,Anderson and Elliot... now that's a lot of players.

Also a reliance on Loans has been a huge setback over the past two seasons.

You cannot build a team around loans. Players coming and going and knowing they are using this club as a springboard to further their careers is not good for morale.

You have to wonder how the likes of Watford, Millwall and Palace can do what they're doing and we can't.

Personally... I would love to have a mix of foreign talent and British grafters in our team.

Some Spanish or Italian flair in midfield and at fullback. People who are comfortable on the ball.

I'm sure everyone has their different opinions, as we all seem to be armchair managers ...

I'd be interested to know peoples ideas and thoughts...

What would you do?

[glynriley]

I'd leave everything as it is now , and bumble along in the Championship or League 1 , just so we can stay at Ashton Gate.

I thought you were happy to do the same ?

[bcfcnick]

I've said it many times in various threads before... but until we get that proven manager, then i'm afraid we are just going to go backwards.

I think you are right in much of what you say but there are so many 'proven' managers that fail or can only succeed with a large budget. Dave Jones perhaps being the latest example. So when we look for a 'proven manager is needs to be one who can get success 'on the cheap' by dealing effectively in the transfer market and blooding young players. The likes of Warnock and Holloway can do that and spot a bargain from the lower leagues. Warnock obviously wouldn't be the footballing purist that I'd like to see but he'd put a smile on faces as would Di Canio. Alternatively, we need to look at who has a decent record of success in league 1 & 2 or in the second tier leagues on the continent and would be able to take the best continental players within our budget.

I also think the chief scout is a much under-rated role in any club and, after the manager, I'd like to see the Club give as much weight to that position and seek out someone who can spot the young and up and coming players. I think a lot of Coppell's success can be attributed to whoever it was who recruited his players at Reading.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

I agree, Del Boy has failed to strengthen in the areas that are so important in CB and CM but instead of buying proven, quality championship players he has spent the money on championship rejects and poor SPL players in Pearson, Morris and Mark Wilson. And its all well and good buying quality strikers in davies and baldock but a solid defence and midfield should of been first on his to do list. Someone like Danny Shittu or Andre bikey could make all the difference for us. Although it does seem we have a quality player in Danny Wilson, too bad the undroppable Fontaine keeps him out of the side

[spudski]

I'd leave everything as it is now , and bumble along in the Championship or League 1 , just so we can stay at Ashton Gate.

I thought you were happy to do the same ?

I am, but at least with a team that can play entertaining football.

And one that doesn't waste money.

The impression i get, is that people seem to think the new stadium is going to be the cure for all that is going wrong...and that we will get in the prem.

We would be ok ish if we hadn't wasted money.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I would like to see less journeymen and more players from European leagues. Palace have a few, they're doing ok...Michu cost £2m for Swansea, PL or not and what a snip.

[spudski]

I agree, Del Boy has failed to strengthen in the areas that are so important in CB and CM but instead of buying proven, quality championship players he has spent the money on championship rejects and poor SPL players in Pearson, Morris and Mark Wilson. And its all well and good buying quality strikers in davies and baldock but a solid defence and midfield should of been first on his to do list. Someone like Danny Shittu or Andre bikey could make all the difference for us. Although it does seem we have a quality player in Danny Wilson, too bad the undroppable Fontaine keeps him out of the side

Shittu and Bikey are out of our wage structure i'm afraid.

[spudski]

I would like to see less journeymen and more players from European leagues. Palace have a few, they're doing ok...Michu cost £2m for Swansea, PL or not and what a snip.

And that is where i believe the true value for money players come from... abroad.

[Robbored]

Proven manager? Like who?

It doesn't matter who is appointed as manager there is still no gaurantee that they'll be a success. All managers fail at some point in their careers. Even Sir Alex Ferguson failed at St Mirren.

What City need is a manager with knowledge of the Championship. Someone like Colin or Holloway.

[Aizoon]

Proven manager? Like Coppell, you mean?

[spudski]

Proven manager? Like who?

It doesn't matter who is appointed as manager there is still no gaurantee that they'll be a success. All managers fail at some point in their careers. Even Sir Alex Ferguson failed at St Mirren.

What City need is a manager with knowledge of the Championship. Someone like Colin or Holloway.

Which is what i've been saying since the time of GJ leaving.

[spudski]

I think you are right in much of what you say but there are so many 'proven' managers that fail or can only succeed with a large budget. Dave Jones perhaps being the latest example. So when we look for a 'proven manager is needs to be one who can get success 'on the cheap' by dealing effectively in the transfer market and blooding young players. The likes of Warnock and Holloway can do that and spot a bargain from the lower leagues. Warnock obviously wouldn't be the footballing purist that I'd like to see but he'd put a smile on faces as would Di Canio. Alternatively, we need to look at who has a decent record of success in league 1 & 2 or in the second tier leagues on the continent and would be able to take the best continental players within our budget.

I also think the chief scout is a much under-rated role in any club and, after the manager, I'd like to see the Club give as much weight to that position and seek out someone who can spot the young and up and coming players. I think a lot of Coppell's success can be attributed to whoever it was who recruited his players at Reading.

Ooops sorry missed your post. I agree wholeheartedly... although i would prefer not to go with lower league managers from this country. Try something different. Pretty every other club is trying to do the same as us. Let's do something different maybe... like Swansea?

[Mr Popodopolous]

And that is where i believe the true value for money players come from... abroad.

Agreed. The market in this country is very much overpriced at times.

[Portland Bill]

I would like to see less journeymen and more players from European leagues. Palace have a few, they're doing ok...Michu cost £2m for Swansea, PL or not and what a snip.

Agree.

[Brizzle Jordan]

Agree.

We don't seem to have the scouting knowledge for that, another reason why I think a more continental manager would be beneficial.

[Cunnyfunt]

I would like to see less journeymen and more players from European leagues. Palace have a few, they're doing ok...Michu cost £2m for Swansea, PL or not and what a snip.

Like Styvar and Vasko?

[Brizzle Jordan]

Like Styvar and Vasko?

Two bad signings don't instantly mean their all of a poor quality.

[Cunnyfunt]

Two bad signings don't instantly mean their all of a poor quality.

No.. But it shows how poor our scouting network abroad is.

[Brizzle Jordan]

No.. But it shows how poor our scouting network abroad is.

They were both under GJ. We do need better scouting of course but if Del and Doc were to do some scouting of themselves in the lower leagues of Europe I'm sure there is players out there who are capable.

[Cunnyfunt]

They were both under GJ. We do need better scouting of course but if Del and Doc were to do some scouting of themselves in the lower leagues of Europe I'm sure there is players out there who are capable.

We'd have to be very lucky to attract capable players from Europe to join us though, especially in our predicament. Lets hope they enjoy a challenge!! It's always hit n' miss wether they settle into their new environments etc.. Great when it pays off but coming here would probably destroy them at the moment!

[Guest Briefcase]

Proven Championship manager ? - Dave Jones certainly fits that bill - look at him - doing really well isnt he - it's a lottery.

[spudski]

Like Styvar and Vasko?

I'd have Vasko back tomorrow. Is he on trial at Leeds or is that old news?

[Mr Popodopolous]

I'd have Vasko back tomorrow. Is he on trial at Leeds or is that old news?

Always thought Vasko was pretty decent for us, but clearly not. I certainly thought he was decent for sure.

[Mr Popodopolous]

No.. But it shows how poor our scouting network abroad is.

I agree. I never remember a fantastic scouting network in my time following (14 yrs and counting). You could say same about academy too.

[Swede]

Oh for a Vasko or an Evander Sno now.

What a difference both of them would make

[wayne allisons tongues]

I don't know why the club doesnt take advantage of the fans around the country. I live in Manchester and am roughly 45 mins from about 20 clubs so could quite easily pass on info from local papers or stuff from friends at work or watch the odd game. If a few fans did this we would have a good scouting network with up to date info on most players.

We have fans in Sweden, france, Poland, china, USA, Australia. If they gave recommendations and club just watched videos it would highlight players from around the world or they just used fm like Everton.

[bearded_red]

I'd have Vasko back tomorrow. Is he on trial at Leeds or is that old news?

I must admit I always thought that Vasko looked like he could develop into a decent player and was surprised we didn't take up the option of signing him.

His goal away at Burnley will live long in the memory!

[Eco]

We're not demised we're resting

[glynriley]

I don't know why the club doesnt take advantage of the fans around the country. I live in Manchester and am roughly 45 mins from about 20 clubs so could quite easily pass on info from local papers or stuff from friends at work or watch the odd game. If a few fans did this we would have a good scouting network with up to date info on most players.

We have fans in Sweden, france, Poland, china, USA, Australia. If they gave recommendations and club just watched videos it would highlight players from around the world or they just used fm like Everton.

Why don't you then ? If something interesting comes to your attention , send it in to the club. If they choose to ignore it , at least you've done your bit.

[spudski]

I don't know why the club doesnt take advantage of the fans around the country. I live in Manchester and am roughly 45 mins from about 20 clubs so could quite easily pass on info from local papers or stuff from friends at work or watch the odd game. If a few fans did this we would have a good scouting network with up to date info on most players.

We have fans in Sweden, france, Poland, china, USA, Australia. If they gave recommendations and club just watched videos it would highlight players from around the world or they just used fm like Everton.

They do.

If you see or hear something...let them know.

They are open and listen.

[wayne allisons tongues]

I wrote and told them about le fondre at Stockport and lambert when he was at Rochdale as well as dawson. Also mentioned dickinson at stockport that wasnt such a good reccommendation. It's all ok writing letters but I don't think the club bother taking notice.

Just thought if there was a bit of organisation by the club it might help them unearth some lower league gems, does anyone know if we've any scouts around the country, or based in certain areas, just can't believe we've not signed any players apart from Albert, Taylor and bolaise in the last few years from lower divisions.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

Proven manager? Like Coppell, you mean?

I was thinking this.

Maybe a small part of the reason that we appointed Millen and then McInnes was because they appeared hungry for the job unlike the last 'proven' manager that we took on who pissed off after a couple of weeks?

[CodeRed]

something different. Pretty every other club is trying to do the same as us. Let's do something different maybe... like Swansea?

Although I do agree with your OP - the Swansea example isn't relevant, the rise from L2 was started by appointing Martinez, an ex-player (like Tinnion or Millen) with no managerial experience who playing for Chester City at the time.

They got lucky, and so did Da Souza and Rogers who basically carried on Martinez's blueprint, structure, and playing style. (Rogers especially so - very lucky to end up at Anfield, that Ch 5 documentary on him was cringworthy -okay!)

As i said they got lucky, we didn't

But I am depressed at how the current situation at AG is following a very similar path

Each manager brings in players who can't win a regular place

Tinnion (Bridges, Stewart) Johnson (Trundle Styvar Clarkson Campbell-ryce Nyatanga) Coppell (Stewart Hunt J) Millen (Kilkenny Woolford) Del (M Wilson Morris Anderson)

Only for the next manager to proclaim - give me time it's not my team yet - and they promptly sign another load of deadwood that the next manager has to clear out.

Then there's all the loans ..........................

Other than maybe Barnsley I can't think of another championship club who have spent so much on so many and got so little out of it.

Only Stead, Albert and Taylor are still here and in or near the 1st team from all the players bought since we rejoined the championship and prior to Del's reign.

And he's doing his best to keep up tradition by signing and not playing Baldock, Davies, Anderson Wilson Morris.

Isn't it time we had someone in overall charge of recruitment - both of mangers and transfers - a Director of Football ? someone in the boardroom who actually knows something/anything about football. How can Jon Lansdown be in that role currently (MD footballs matters) with ZERO experience.

Some will say we can't afford it, i say we can't afford all these signings who end up walking away for nothing or worse - paid off to leave.

finally I watched Wigan on sky last night.

Some parallels

Wigan owner - local man, self made millionaire, successfull businessman, owns both Wigan Ath fc and Wigan RL. had a vision, took Wigan from non league to PL and built a new stadium to house it (and the rugby)

BCFC owner - local man, self made millionaire, successfull businessman, owns both BCfc and Bristol Rugby. had a vision,................. and that's it. Achieved very little, pumped money into the club to pay for his mistakes but that's all

Difference = Wheelan actually knows about football

[bearded_red]

Although I do agree with your OP - the Swansea example isn't relevant, the rise from L2 was started by appointing Martinez, an ex-player (like Tinnion or Millen) with no managerial experience who playing for Chester City at the time.

Although the rest of your post is fair, there seems to be a common misconception that it was Martinez that started Swansea's upward curve when in reality it was Kenny Jackett.

Jackett got them promoted from League 2 in 2005 with a team built around players such as Tate, Monk and Britton that would all later feature with the club in the Premier League. Sure Martinez may have got them playing a more tiki-taka style of football, but I didn't notice any terrible football from them when they were beating us 7-1 under Jackett!

[southvillekiddy]

Like Styvar and Vasko?

I'm with you Bearded Red

bought and hardly ever played. If you saw Tomas Vasko away at Burnley you would be scratching your head as to why Gary didn't make him first on the team sheet every week.

This is another pattern at City. Baldock,(scores for fun - if he gets on the pitch and is lucky enough to touch the ball) Anderson (always looks dangerous to me)

And How about Wilkshire - too good to play as far as I can make out from Tinnion

CRACKERS OR WHAT - DOES THIS HAPPEN ELSEWHERE? ???????????????????????????????

[spudski]

Although I do agree with your OP - the Swansea example isn't relevant, the rise from L2 was started by appointing Martinez, an ex-player (like Tinnion or Millen) with no managerial experience who playing for Chester City at the time.

They got lucky, and so did Da Souza and Rogers who basically carried on Martinez's blueprint, structure, and playing style. (Rogers especially so - very lucky to end up at Anfield, that Ch 5 documentary on him was cringworthy -okay!)

As i said they got lucky, we didn't

But I am depressed at how the current situation at AG is following a very similar path

Each manager brings in players who can't win a regular place

Tinnion (Bridges, Stewart) Johnson (Trundle Styvar Clarkson Campbell-ryce Nyatanga) Coppell (Stewart Hunt J) Millen (Kilkenny Woolford) Del (M Wilson Morris Anderson)

Only for the next manager to proclaim - give me time it's not my team yet - and they promptly sign another load of deadwood that the next manager has to clear out.

Then there's all the loans ..........................

Other than maybe Barnsley I can't think of another championship club who have spent so much on so many and got so little out of it.

Only Stead, Albert and Taylor are still here and in or near the 1st team from all the players bought since we rejoined the championship and prior to Del's reign.

And he's doing his best to keep up tradition by signing and not playing Baldock, Davies, Anderson Wilson Morris.

Isn't it time we had someone in overall charge of recruitment - both of mangers and transfers - a Director of Football ? someone in the boardroom who actually knows something/anything about football. How can Jon Lansdown be in that role currently (MD footballs matters) with ZERO experience.

Some will say we can't afford it, i say we can't afford all these signings who end up walking away for nothing or worse - paid off to leave.

finally I watched Wigan on sky last night.

Some parallels

Wigan owner - local man, self made millionaire, successfull businessman, owns both Wigan Ath fc and Wigan RL. had a vision, took Wigan from non league to PL and built a new stadium to house it (and the rugby)

BCFC owner - local man, self made millionaire, successfull businessman, owns both BCfc and Bristol Rugby. had a vision,................. and that's it. Achieved very little, pumped money into the club to pay for his mistakes but that's all

Difference = Wheelan actually knows about football

I agree with a fair amount of what you say, but I wouldn't say they got lucky. They had a plan to go 'Continental'. Hense Martinez and De Souza. Do you know about Rogers history with his father and the Spanish coaching connection? It was all planned.