cider-manc Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Wasn't at the game yesterday so can't comment on the misses. However I have seen the goals on YouTube and can comment on how poor both goals we let in were. This is unfortunately the real problem. We can't defend. I don't think you can really blame a striker who is well on his way to a 20 goal season (of which we have two!) for missing when we are guaranteed to let in at least one a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBW Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Was it just me or did Baldock look into the Atyeo when celebrating his second and seem to say "**** off"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Was it just me or did Baldock look into the Atyeo when celebrating his second and seem to say "**** off"... Yeah I noticed that. It was as if to say...."you were saying...?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BITW Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Was it just me or did Baldock look into the Atyeo when celebrating his second and seem to say "**** off"... I highly doubt it! He's not that sort if character. More likely saying "******* get in" or something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Oh, and for what it's worth, according to the stats Baldock has scored 20.6% of his shots this season. In comparison to the top premier league scorers, Aguero is a wee bit more clinical at 28%, whereas Suarez is 25.9%. Not exactly ground breaking is it. Looks like they both have plenty of efforts that don't result in goals too, the difference is their teams are challenging for the premier league whilst we are languishing at the bottom of division 3. No one would be talking about this if we had conceded fewer and got more points on the board. Not interested in the Premier League? How about our own league then. Let's look at those who have scored more than Baldock: Ryan Lowe - 42% Britt Assombalonga - 23.2%Sam Baldock - 20.6% Leon Clarke - 20% Nakhi Wells - 19.2% Callum Wilson - 18.9% Patrick Bamford - 16.9% Clayton Donaldson - 16.8% What does this tell us? Lowe (bit of a freak stat, that one) is well ahead of the trend in terms of clinical finishing, but of the others, only Assombalonga has been more clinical than Baldock this season. Funnily enough, Patrick Bamford and Nakhi Wells - both mentioned in this thread as prolific strikers and both transferred to a higher league - have been less prolific than Baldock this season. Don't know about Lowe, does he take penalties, have Tranmere had a lot of them? He's had an incredibly low number of shots compared to others. I thank you for this. Someone finally brought relevant stats to the table and should be enough to close this topic. Yes Baldock misses chances but so do other strikers that are apparently rated on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I thank you for this. Someone finally brought relevant stats to the table and should be enough to close this topic. Yes Baldock misses chances but so do other strikers that are apparently rated on here It's not that Baldock misses chances, it's 'the' chances he's missed'n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Just listened to the fella on Player. Deeply upset by missed chances. Still got us a point. Top bloke, will rip a new ass when has a taste of his confidence back Excruciating interview, he still looked haunted by the missed header. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Excruciating interview, he still looked haunted by the missed header. Agreed, was horrible to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Stats that are completely irrelevant because it fails to highlight how good the chances were. Clutch them tightly petal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdliketoRogerMoore Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 And still it rumbles on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 no there is a 6 page thread because idiots like you bowie and taylor10 are making him a scapegoat like you always do first it was Johnson then Elliot, fontaine now its baldock its as if city fans want to destroy players simply because they are jealous of them and their ability The problems with all four that you mention is the same thing, all haven't good enough for a very long time. Baldock has never to date proven his value, or his worth or his reputation as to why we signed him Elliott - miles past his best but realistically won't be here beyond this season Fontaine - see above. One of the most unprofessional players I've seen at City in a long time, Will go down alongside the likes of Baird and Steve Jones based on their professionalism. Johnson - Was out of his depth in the championship and no english league club manager other than his dad every signed him or give him a contract as for wanting to destroy players, not in the slightest. I don't boo them in the ground or give them stick at the games like those in the East End and Atyeo were doing. But after the game you look at a player and some you can quite clearly point at being not good enough, Saw the interview yesterday and it was the same kinda interview as 12months ago, a bloke lacking confidence, just another wasteful striker passing through who will soon be gone, not fit to lace the boots of the likes of Taylor, Goater or Thorpe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Just watched the post match interview and Baldock has gone up in my estimation. It took some balls to come out straight after the match and field questions about missing chances. Fair play to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 WHU and Cardiff is not doing well as Bristol City. Dont the problem is with our strikers. SB scored 2 yesterday and thats good Imo. Next game maybe Jet will found the net. We scored 4 vs Stevenage and now 2 vs Dons. Normally 6 points at home. If we can get some clean sheets then the wins are coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Wrong... Possibly Wells but he might well do Anyway, it's hardly Baldock fault we paid 1m for him!! No not his fault, however, I bet he's being paid to be a 1m striker . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 No not his fault, however, I bet he's being paid to be a 1m striker . Still not his fault, but if his goals get us out of this crap then fair enough! Just think, if we had a defense that kept a clean sheet now and then and Baldock kept scoring he would be your hero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Must remember you are not allowed to debate on this forum....you will either be accused of being not fit to support the club or making a scapegoat of players by all the super fans! Especially if you have a difference of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Still not his fault, but if his goals get us out of this crap then fair enough! Okay that is BS, He asked for the wages as would any player, So he has to live up to the wages he is on, That he wanted, Which I believe are high championship low prem wages!! If we could swap Baldock for let's say Wieman, Similar player and similar wages who would swap? I certainly would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Okay that is BS, He asked for the wages as would any player, So he has to live up to the wages he is on, That he wanted, Which I believe are high championship low prem wages!! If we could swap Baldock for let's say Wieman, Similar player and similar wages who would swap? I certainly would Spot on, if your paid a certain amount then you have to earn your bunce, it's no different in any profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Okay that is BS, He asked for the wages as would any player, So he has to live up to the wages he is on, That he wanted, Which I believe are high championship low prem wages!! If we could swap Baldock for let's say Wieman, Similar player and similar wages who would swap? I certainly would Baldock was signed because at the time we had so called players around him that were supposed to help us do well in the championship. Not his fault that the managers were not up to it. So onto the next match and see how many he scores or misses. But im sure if he does score a one onto one, another player will get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Spot on, if your paid a certain amount then you have to earn your bunce, it's no different in any profession. I think it's only Corleone that thinks he's not good at this level (his opinion I'm fine with that) It's just that the money we paid for him (Not his fault admittedly) And the wages he's on (which he would've requested so is his fault) he needs to be a High championship/low prem quality striker and we haven't seen that since Cardiff home last year. That is why many are disappointed as they feel he should have scored the easier chances he's had this season, If he had he'd be on 20-30 already!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Totally agree, people don't realise JET don't do no running off the ball which Sam does!! And the 'multiple use of negatives' award goes to.... I've never not heard nothing like that never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 But for 20k a week I'm sure you can find a striker in the prem on that, Like Weiman at Villa, Becchio at Norwich. Then Championship you have Ings, Vokes, That new Forest striker I'm saying for the wages he's on he should show more quality with the ball in front of goalWhat are his wages? From snippets from managers and board members many took a near on 50% hit after relegation. I have no clue what he is on as I have no access to his payslip, bank account or works accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 What are his wages? From snippets from managers and board members many took a near on 50% hit after relegation. I have no clue what he is on as I have no access to his payslip, bank account or works accounts. I'm just going by Dropping down a division to join us, Already on a fair bit at West Ham, Beating Charlton and Palace to him who had bids accepted I would be surprised if he was on less than 15k p/w last year and Less than 10k this year But my point still stands, He asked for the wages, He should be able to play to those standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I don't understand this prolific rubbish that keeps coming up. He has never ever been prolific. Maybe this is why people expect more. His 2 goals at the weekend has just equalled his best ever season. Which suggests to me he is improving as a goal scorer and making more chances for himself. You have to avoid Stockhausen's poetic licence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I'm just going by Dropping down a division to join us, Already on a fair bit at West Ham, Beating Charlton and Palace to him who had bids accepted I would be surprised if he was on less than 15k p/w last year and Less than 10k this year But my point still stands, He asked for the wages, He should be able to play to those standardsYou have no idea what he is on then? Now he has dropped a division and taken a hit on wages that must mean he doesn't have to be as prolific going by that sort of logic, yet he has already scored more goals than last season! Sorry what he earns has no correlation to what he scores. If he were in a team of nickey hunt's and him, how many do you think he would score? If he was prolific before he joined us people may have a point. He wasn't. All you can ever ask for from someone who wants the wages is the commitment and effort. Everything after that is a bonus, due the nature of being in a team you rely on others. No one can call into question Baldocks effort or commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 You have to avoid Stockhausen's poetic licence! It isn't just him to be fair it gets banded sbout all over the place and it is just bollocks! Lazy journalism. But for me he nmanaged 10 at a higher level in a crap team after banging in 10-14 in previous seasons at l1 that I would say is improvement. He now has 14 before the end of January. If he continues he will smash his previoud best. It all adds to continuous improvement.... which is all you can ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 You have no idea what he is on then? Now he has dropped a division and taken a hit on wages that must mean he doesn't have to be as prolific going by that sort of logic, yet he has already scored more goals than last season! Sorry what he earns has no correlation to what he scores. If he were in a team of nickey hunt's and him, how many do you think he would score? If he was prolific before he joined us people may have a point. He wasn't. All you can ever ask for from someone who wants the wages is the commitment and effort. Everything after that is a bonus, due the nature of being in a team you rely on others. No one can call into question Baldocks effort or commitment. Fair play you must have a decent boss if all they want is commitment and effort - mine demands that but if I did not produce results I would get flack and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Fair play you must have a decent boss if all they want is commitment and effort - mine demands that but if I did not produce results I would get flack and rightly so. Aye nearly 1 in 2 ratio this season is awful. Lets find the p45. If you expect a striker to be bettering that god help the rooney's van persies of this world. It seems only Ronaldo and Messi are the ones hitting high enough standards to keep their jobs! Results may not be based your successes or failures. If baldock hit 50 but we got relegated, would he get sacked because of the failure of the team? If we somehow got promoted this season, but baldock didn't score again, but help set up many goals for others, would he get sacked for not scoring goals, yet as a team we were successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Aye nearly 1 in 2 ratio this season is awful. Lets find the p45. If you expect a striker to be bettering that god help the rooney's van persies of this world. It seems only Ronaldo and Messi are the ones hitting high enough standards to keep their jobs! Results may not be based your successes or failures. If baldock hit 50 but we got relegated, would he get sacked because of the failure of the team? If we somehow got promoted this season, but baldock didn't score again, but help set up many goals for others, would he get sacked for not scoring goals, yet as a team we were successful? We're getting off topic, Sam Baldock himself agrees with what I've been saying so that's good enough for me, Time to leave this thread now as we're not going to agree but for once it's been good to debate without it resorting to to much abuse!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 We're getting off topic, Sam Baldock himself agrees with what I've been saying so that's good enough for me, Time to leave this thread now as we're not going to agree but for once it's been good to debate without it resorting to to much abuse!! Without doubt. Easy to debate without abuse. But like all debates everyone thinks they are right If Baldock does improve his finishing. I think we can both agree, he won't be here long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnclosureSurge Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 0'35"seconds into this, exactly the same angle as one of Baldock's yesterday...goal! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiU1kNJHLyQ And it's irrelevant that it's a Serie A player scoring (and a brilliant one at that, Callejon for Napoli) - you'd see a goal scored like this on the Downs of a Saturday pm. What worries me about Baldrick's 1-on-1 misses is thathe is a recidivist, straight at the keeper's legs nearly every time. He says he could improve this in training (5'15" in this interview - ) but it's been months since he has shown he can do this regularly. The second interviewer even suggests what he could do (changing the angle)!! Personally I think, as an intelligent footballer, he'll find his confidence and start converting some of these 1v1s - let's just not make him the next target for the boo-boys (must admit I got enraged by him yesterday!! But I'd stop before booing, hopefully). C'mon Sam, one thing's for sure - start knocking those easier chances in and we'll have an ever-improving chance of staying up. Cos at the moment, without winning games but drawing them, we're gong down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Without doubt. Easy to debate without abuse. But like all debates everyone thinks they are right If Baldock does improve his finishing. I think we can both agree, he won't be here long. If he doesn't improve his finishing I think we can all agree BCFC will never get a decent offer to take him off our hands. Any scout who saw yesterday's first half will never recommend him as a signing, that's for sure. It's not just the repetetive failure with the one on one's - does anyone even get out of their seat any more when he's bearing down on goal? - it's numerous easy chances where you would expect a goalscorer at any level to take the majority. Then there have been several 6 yard box air shots where he has failed to even connect with the ball at all. Presumably these don't go down in the statistics as shots at all, let alone on or off target, but gilt edged, missed, chances they remain. I don't go along with the theory that he is such a master of movement that he has created all these chances himself where another striker wouldn't have been in position. His movement will have been a factor in some but many, many others have been set up on a plate in a way no City striker has benefited from for many years. Yet he continues to miss them with such regularity it's hard to believe there are some who seek to completely excuse such unprecedented profligacy. He could very easily have doubled his tally this season while still failing to take many very good chances, and by the look of him he is as incredulous as most fans that such outrageous misses continue - note the furious booting of the EE hoardings yesterday. Cotterill is being very supportive and patient publicly but he must be as aware as anyone that it can't go on. If we continue to create this many chances, and squander a similar percentage as the vital games to avoid relegation come thick and fast, then these misses will become an ever more significant factor in determining the outcome of our season. Yet again we hope his second half goals will have lifted his confidence enough to produce a magical transformation in his golden chance taking percentage in the games to come, because frankly, nothing but massive improvement will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 If he doesn't improve his finishing I think we can all agree BCFC will never get a decent offer to take him off our hands. Any scout who saw yesterday's first half will never recommend him as a signing, that's for sure. It's not just the repetetive failure with the one on one's - does anyone even get out of their seat any more when he's bearing down on goal? - it's numerous easy chances where you would expect a goalscorer at any level to take the majority. Then there have been several 6 yard box air shots where he has failed to even connect with the ball at all. Presumably these don't go down in the statistics as shots at all, let alone on or off target, but gilt edged, missed, chances they remain. I don't go along with the theory that he is such a master of movement that he has created all these chances himself where another striker wouldn't have been in position. His movement will have been a factor in some but many, many others have been set up on a plate in a way no City striker has benefited from for many years. Yet he continues to miss them with such regularity it's hard to believe there are some who seek to completely excuse such unprecedented profligacy. He could very easily have doubled his tally this season while still failing to take many very good chances, and by the look of him he is as incredulous as most fans that such outrageous misses continue - note the furious booting of the EE hoardings yesterday. Cotterill is being very supportive and patient publicly but he must be as aware as anyone that it can't go on. If we continue to create this many chances, and squander a similar percentage as the vital games to avoid relegation come thick and fast, then these misses will become an ever more significant factor in determining the outcome of our season. Yet again we hope his second half goals will have lifted his confidence enough to produce a magical transformation in his golden chance taking percentage in the games to come, because frankly, nothing but massive improvement will do.p May I remind you Noggers that you are not allowed an opinion on Baldock or any other player unless it is 100% positive. I think you sum it up well when saying he could have easily doubled his tally even without scoring a lot of the easy ones. That's not making him a scapegoat, it's stating the bleeding obvious. It's almost as if SB can't possibly be challenged because he is captain or works hard. I think it says it all when he himself has acknowledged he has to do better. So next time he misses a sitter are we as fans not allowed an opinion? Shall we all just brush it all under the carpet and pretend the catalogue of misses actually never happened? I can handle him missing chances but it's the complete and utter lack of composure and lack of ideas that is startling. It's almost as if it's a hit and hope every time. No thought process or clever execution behind a lot of the poor misses. I think every fan is entitled to feel underwhelmed that a striker we signed on bloody good money and was expected to be championship quality isn't proving worth the outlay. Even more frustrating when a proven striker in Pitman was literally forced out the door for pittance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 p May I remind you Noggers that you are not allowed an opinion on Baldock or any other player unless it is 100% positive. I think you sum it up well when saying he could have easily doubled his tally even without scoring a lot of the easy ones. That's not making him a scapegoat, it's stating the bleeding obvious. It's almost as if SB can't possibly be challenged because he is captain or works hard. I think it says it all when he himself has acknowledged he has to do better. So next time he misses a sitter are we as fans not allowed an opinion? Shall we all just brush it all under the carpet and pretend the catalogue of misses actually never happened? I can handle him missing chances but it's the complete and utter lack of composure and lack of ideas that is startling. It's almost as if it's a hit and hope every time. No thought process or clever execution behind a lot of the poor misses. I think every fan is entitled to feel underwhelmed that a striker we signed on bloody good money and was expected to be championship quality isn't proving worth the outlay. Even more frustrating when a proven striker in Pitman was literally forced out the door for pittance. Not really. I just don't see the point at blaming the bloke for being a crap 1 one on 1 finisher because we bought him for loads from a premiership team. What he earns, where he comes from and how much we bought him for are all completely irrelevant to him missing one on ones. All that is the choice of the people that bought him. He hasn't scored that many or been prolific before we bought him, so for a 22 year old (when we bought him) he was very much a gamble. He is rubbish at one on ones, but he has scored 14. His goal scoring ratio is improving. Undoubtedly his one on one finishing will improve as hr improves his game. He is getting slaughtered by many as the sole reason we are shite. Sorry it is wrong and many of the reasons given (cos he cosy too much) is wrong. Now I have started sounding like Ian Holloway I'll stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Not really. I just don't see the point at blaming the bloke for being a crap 1 one on 1 finisher because we bought him for loads from a Premier League team. What he earns, where he comes from and how much we bought him for are all completely irrelevant to him missing one on ones. All that is the choice of the people that bought him. He hasn't scored that many or been prolific before we bought him, so for a 22 year old (when we bought him) he was very much a gamble. He is rubbish at one on ones, but he has scored 14. His goal scoring ratio is improving. Undoubtedly his one on one finishing will improve as hr improves his game. He is getting slaughtered by many as the sole reason we are shite. Sorry it is wrong and many of the reasons given (cos he cosy too much) is wrong. Now I have started sounding like Ian Holloway I'll stop It wasn't directed at you TRL. More at idiots like Monkeh The blame can't solely be placed at Baldocks door. You're right those that sanctioned it are at question too, especially when Pitman was literally given away. Me personally I feel underwhelmed by the money paid for him. Don't think we have had value for more and his lack of composure doesn't represent value for money. I've had my say on this many times and always like to think I offer constructive debate. I wouldn't start calling you an idiot just because you don't share the same view like some clowns on here do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 It wasn't directed at you TRL. More at idiots like Monkeh The blame can't solely be placed at Baldocks door. You're right those that sanctioned it are at question too, especially when Pitman was literally given away. Me personally I feel underwhelmed by the money paid for him. Don't think we have had value for more and his lack of composure doesn't represent value for money. I've had my say on this many times and always like to think I offer constructive debate. I wouldn't start calling you an idiot just because you don't share the same view like some clowns on here do In my defence, I am more than happy to have a reasoned debate without any need for personal insults...with most! My main concern is that because of the amount of fuss that's been made about Baldock's missed chances (despite the stats showing he's amongst the most clinical in the league), this presents a problem in itself. Now, every single time Baldock has a goalscoring opportunity, he will be expected to score, and there will be loud groans every single time that doesn't happen, when the stats show that even players like Suarez miss 3 out of 4 chances they have. I'd like to think that only 3 out of every 4 times Baldock fails to score, the crowd won't get on his back, but I know different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 In my defence, I am more than happy to have a reasoned debate without any need for personal insults...with most! My main concern is that because of the amount of fuss that's been made about Baldock's missed chances (despite the stats showing he's amongst the most clinical in the league), this presents a problem in itself. Now, every single time Baldock has a goalscoring opportunity, he will be expected to score, and there will be loud groans every single time that doesn't happen, when the stats show that even players like Suarez miss 3 out of 4 chances they have. I'd like to think that only 3 out of every 4 times Baldock fails to score, the crowd won't get on his back, but I know different. Completely agree mate and it has become an issue with some. I wont ever stop supporting him no matter how many chances he misses. All good strikers miss them. What concerns me is the lack of composure and unfortunately he seems to miss chances at crucial times on a consistent basis. Coupled with our defensive issues it's often coming back to bite us on the back side at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Running Man Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 In my defence, I am more than happy to have a reasoned debate without any need for personal insults...with most! My main concern is that because of the amount of fuss that's been made about Baldock's missed chances (despite the stats showing he's amongst the most clinical in the league), this presents a problem in itself. Now, every single time Baldock has a goalscoring opportunity, he will be expected to score, and there will be loud groans every single time that doesn't happen, when the stats show that even players like Suarez miss 3 out of 4 chances they have. I'd like to think that only 3 out of every 4 times Baldock fails to score, the crowd won't get on his back, but I know different. There are chances and there are chances, I don't believe Suarez would have missed 3 of the 4 chances that Baldock had on Saturday. For the two one on one's he would have tried to go past the keeper and do a swallow dive for a start rather than gamble on getting it past the keeper at a tight angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always Believesham Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I am sorry - hadn't remembered this was an 8 page thread - guessing the majority of this has been covered Pitman has those chances - we win the game. End of If Pitman ever sprung the offside trap from the halfway line and carried the ball to the edge of the area i'd be surprised - definitely a luxury we couldn't afford, compare him to JET; JET is also a spectacular finisher but rarely gets the runs in alone. Pitman might as well have been a target man for the running he did Baldock's finishing will improve, I expect him not to score when he goes through one-on-one much like many City fans but I am confident he will start putting more of them away The point I came on this thread to make was that we could have been 4-2 up at half time; JETs miss was sheer nonchalance, 2 one-on-ones and a header that other strikers may have put away. I thought we lacked real cover for the back 3 today and the back 3 lost shape when one stepped up to meet a player that a CDM would have gobbled up - at times it looked like Gillett, Reid & Pack were interchanging and never really covering; at the expense of leaving the defence exposed, we created a plethora of chances. Start putting more than 1 in 7 away and the side will shoot up the league, I reckon Elliott will return against Wolves and these hances will dry up a little, so it's up to Baldock to put more of them away - or at least make sure his 1 in 5 are chances 1 and 6 not 9 and 10! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hortonred Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 And the 'multiple use of negatives' award goes to.... I've never not heard nothing like that never. No he is too busy scoring goals and setting them up for others in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 It wasn't directed at you TRL. More at idiots like Monkeh The blame can't solely be placed at Baldocks door. You're right those that sanctioned it are at question too, especially when Pitman was literally given away. Me personally I feel underwhelmed by the money paid for him. Don't think we have had value for more and his lack of composure doesn't represent value for money. I've had my say on this many times and always like to think I offer constructive debate. I wouldn't start calling you an idiot just because you don't share the same view like some clowns on here do No worries.... that said I am a idiot and I have no plans to change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 No worries.... that said I am a idiot and I have no plans to change One of the good idiots that can actually have a constructive debate though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Second chance SB missed was not so easy. Tight angle defender running back, their goalkeper made his big. Good defending Imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Very much reminds me of Tony Thorpe. Hmmmm...actually, Pitman reminded me of Thorpe - good finisher but not an 'all round' team player, if you know what I mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Pitman back and Sammy to the door. Maybe its so easy to avoid relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted January 20, 2014 Admin Share Posted January 20, 2014 Match of the Day is to blame. People have got used to watching highlight packages where the top scorers put away every chance that comes their way. The reality is that even the likes of Suarez and Aguero only have a 25% conversion rate yet people on this thread are arguing with complete sincerity that Baldock should be putting away 40% of his shots (comments about doubling his tally). Only 2 of the top scorers in L1 have a better goalscoring ratio than Sam yet he is being described as an average L1 striker. Do people even know what average means? In terms of goal ratio if Sam was average then L1 only contains 3 or 4 strikers. In terms of goals scored if Sam was average then L1 must only contain 13 or 14 strikers. There's probably around 100 strikers in this division that will be used at some point, Sam is distinctly above average. Yes he will miss some real howlers but so does every striker in the world, we just don't see them miss them every game as we are not there or watching their game live on tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Match of the Day is to blame. People have got used to watching highlight packages where the top scorers put away every chance that comes their way. The reality is that even the likes of Suarez and Aguero only have a 25% conversion rate yet people on this thread are arguing with complete sincerity that Baldock should be putting away 40% of his shots (comments about doubling his tally). Only 2 of the top scorers in L1 have a better goalscoring ratio than Sam yet he is being described as an average L1 striker. Do people even know what average means? In terms of goal ratio if Sam was average then L1 only contains 3 or 4 strikers. In terms of goals scored if Sam was average then L1 must only contain 13 or 14 strikers. There's probably around 100 strikers in this division that will be used at some point, Sam is distinctly above average. Yes he will miss some real howlers but so does every striker in the world, we just don't see them miss them every game as we are not there or watching their game live on tv. Good luck, I tried stats, logic and reason and it didn't work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 slightly ot but after baldocks interview,sc was asked about anymore transfers. i am enthused with his 'we dont want to bring anyone in for everyday of the week except saturday' is there anyone uninjured in our squad that he hasnt played yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Good luck, I tried stats, logic and reason and it didn't work! Both you and Ians posts rely too heavily on stats. You have to be qualitative in your assessment as well as quantatitive. People can use their eyes to make sound judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Both you and Ians posts rely too heavily on stats. You have to be qualitative in your assessment as well as quantatitive. People can use their eyes to make sound judgement.They can also fall victim to confirmation bias. Stats help you to apply some objectivity.You don't need stats or particularly sound judgement to realise that complaining about our strikers when they're both scoring and creating more regularly than any we've had since before Brooker and Lita, and that the rest of the team is frankly a complete shambles, is churlish to say the least. It's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 They can also fall victim to confirmation bias. Stats help you to apply some objectivity. You don't need stats or particularly sound judgement to realise that complaining about our strikers when they're both scoring and creating more regularly than any we've had since before Brooker and Lita, and that the rest of the team is frankly a complete shambles, is churlish to say the least. It's embarrassing. Only as embarrassing as your overly simplistic theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Only as embarrassing as your overly simplistic theory.What theory?They've scored and created lots of goals, that's not a theory.We've scored 36 league goals. That's enough to be comfortably top half. That's not a theory either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall King Blox Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I Dont play pro football.....i can only imagine the pressure, the expectation....no comment ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 We are where we are cos of our defence, not our attack! How's that for a fact? My eyes back up my theory, as do the stats, as does our league standing. If we had a watertight defence, missed chances would barely be a talking point. And we'd be sitting pretty in the top half of the table. Still let's have a go at our strikers on course for 20+ goals this season..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Thank you for clearing that up, John. So, as the first line of defence, can we land one on Sammy Baldock for not closing down the oppositions lumbering central defenders properly?I think you could rough him up a bit if you choose. Just no nasty stuff! In all honesty though, I think SB works his cotton socks off for the team. Lots of selfless off the ball movement and running the channels. But yes he has weakness's. But I think he'd also walk in to most teams in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBW Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I highly doubt it! He's not that sort if character. More likely saying "******* get in" or something along those lines. I'm more sure it ended in "off" than I am it started with "****". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Match of the Day is to blame. People have got used to watching highlight packages where the top scorers put away every chance that comes their way. The reality is that even the likes of Suarez and Aguero only have a 25% conversion rate yet people on this thread are arguing with complete sincerity that Baldock should be putting away 40% of his shots (comments about doubling his tally). Only 2 of the top scorers in L1 have a better goalscoring ratio than Sam yet he is being described as an average L1 striker. Do people even know what average means? In terms of goal ratio if Sam was average then L1 only contains 3 or 4 strikers. In terms of goals scored if Sam was average then L1 must only contain 13 or 14 strikers. There's probably around 100 strikers in this division that will be used at some point, Sam is distinctly above average. Yes he will miss some real howlers but so does every striker in the world, we just don't see them miss them every game as we are not there or watching their game live on tv. I rarely watch MOTD, my assertion that Baldock should have doubled his tally is based solely on the chances I've seen him squander. He's had a plethora of easy chances this season - certainly not just one on ones - and he has notably failed to take far too many. When comparing him with others I couldn't say whether any other striker in this division has had so many easy chances and failed to take them, but I'd doubt it, because the number he's had would be extraordinary for any striker, even in a much more successful team Certainly it's hard to think of a City striker in the last 45 years with a comparable catalogue of misses because we've almost never been a high chance creating team. Liam Robinson springs to mind, but even then he wasn't doing air shots from 5 yards out, or often missing the target completely. I think it was 'Harry' who listed a large number of Baldock's misses a few weeks ago and of course there are quite a few more to add even in the last few games. Perhaps he could do an update? I'd look at it that there are half chances, good chances, and gilt edged 'really should score most of them' chances, and it is in the latter catagory that many of Baldock's notable misses fall in to. Even allowing for the fact that all forwards miss chances it's bemusing to think there's anyone out there who truly believes his total shouldn't be far higher on the quality of chances afforded to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I rarely watch MOTD, my assertion that Baldock should have doubled his tally is based solely on the chances I've seen him squander. He's had a plethora of easy chances this season - certainly not just one on ones - and he has notably failed to take far too many. When comparing him with others I couldn't say whether any other striker in this division has had so many easy chances and failed to take them, but I'd doubt it, because the number he's had would be extraordinary for any striker, even in a much more successful team Certainly it's hard to think of a City striker in the last 45 years with a comparable catalogue of misses because we've almost never been a high chance creating team. Liam Robinson springs to mind, but even then he wasn't doing air shots from 5 yards out, or often missing the target completely. I think it was 'Harry' who listed a large number of Baldock's misses a few weeks ago and of course there are quite a few more to add even in the last few games. Perhaps he could do an update? I'd look at it that there are half chances, good chances, and gilt edged 'really should score most of them' chances, and it is in the latter catagory that many of Baldock's notable misses fall in to. Even allowing for the fact that all forwards miss chances it's bemusing to think there's anyone out there who truly believes his total shouldn't be far higher on the quality of chances afforded to him.Surely strikers are judged on the goals they score? Not the ones they miss! Or would we be better off with more clinical striker that scores less goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northamptonshire Red Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Although some are bemoaning the use of stats, these stats are 'blind' to what type of chances these strikers have had. Therefore, to say Baldock misses more 'gilt edged' chances is irrelevant when comparing him against the likes of Wells etc. How many 'great' chances have others missed? Yes it's frustrating, but Baldock is definitely good enough for this league, and shows passion and commitment too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Surely strikers are judged on the goals they score? Not the ones they miss! Or would we be better off with more clinical striker that scores less goals? Those who don't see them will judge them on statistics, those who do will make up their minds on the evidence of their own eyes. Um, yes John, we would be better off with a more clinical striker on this season's evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Surely strikers are judged on the goals they score? Not the ones they miss! Or would we be better off with more clinical striker that scores less goals? That's what the Pro Baldock group always pull it back to the amount he's scored so far, No one has actually said that the amount he's scored isn't good, It is. I just feel he could have a bag tone more because of the opportunities he's missed many if them are sitters and cost us points, Just like we don't like conversion stats the Pro side don't like Point facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I would like to see some statistics balancing the quality of chances we've created this season against other teams. I can't remember us creating this many good chances, or our strikers having as many one-on-ones for a long, long time. Chance conversion percentages & goal tallies on their own only tell half a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think it was 'Harry' who listed a large number of Baldock's misses a few weeks ago and of course there are quite a few more to add even in the last few games. Perhaps he could do an update? Read this: http://thenatchwall.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/must-do-better.pdf 20 clear cut chances missed including an astonishing 12 one-on-ones. No wonder Baldock himself has been very self-critical. It's not just the type of chances he's missing though, it's the timing of them - often early in games, the important ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.