havanatopia Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) A crime infested blister with ideas above its station; that is what is said by some locals about Manchester. Bolton, on the other hand, should not necessarily be guilty by association. Let us delve a little.. I am grateful to the many, too many to mention here, who have inspired me to pen some of these words which, although I conjugated them into as short and as interesting a summary as I am able, are largely not of my making. It is said that in Bolton one can experience intellectual osmosis. This is the effect of being outside of your home, seeing the general populace, and feeling more stupid than you actually are. I am very glad the Bristol City faithful are only in the town for a short while then. It was not always considered an intellectual desert nor a dump. In fact as many would attest it was at the very heart of Britain's rise to power in the 18th, 19th and early 20th century. The mighty mills of Bolton drove the industrial revolution forward. 216 mills at its height in 1929 but by 1980 virtually all gone. How times have changed through a combination of inept mis-management, Chinese dumping and downright laziness down the years. Something is significantly wrong with society when somebody can be walking around dressed with the most expensive clothing imaginable, made overseas of course, claiming dole and be a Grandmother of 8 at 30. Even Reebok, founded in Bolton, have up and left which I suppose is why the ground is now called Macron.. what do they do?.. supply the giro cheques to the local town hall? 139 thousand souls live in Bolton and its administratively included towns. Amir Khan was born in Bolton; bet he doesn't live there now though. And for those of you who wish to understand what a Boltonian, returning to see his hometown, feels about the place read the link:- https://www.tripadvisor.com.ph/ShowUserReviews-g187053-r15603676-Bolton_Greater_Manchester_England.html He does advise to watch your money and your valuables.. but since the football ground is in Horwich you might be able to avoid the place entirely of course. But Bothelton, as it kinda first was named in around 1212 meaning a place with a dwelling; I did warn you that people have said they are not the smartest bunch, has evidence of settlement long before. The Bronze Age in fact. But its them there Flems who again populate the place in the 14th century who bring the weaving skills that one day will catapult the town to stardom and riches only for it to be squandered in the decades that follow the demise. How that could be compared to the relative rise and fall of its only football league team. Perhaps one of the more 'infamous' parts of Bolton history though concerns what became known as the Bolton Massacre. The town were loyal to the Parliamentarians and in 1644 the Earl of Derby, representing the Royalists, attacked the town killing 1500 and plundering its riches.. So Bolton can thank Derby for its demise.. I wonder if there is such twisted logic acted out on the terraces or perhaps I have just opened a potential future aggravation. How naughty is that. Narghhh... the average Boltonian won't go for that.. oh hang on.. Should you come across the pub Ye Olde Man & Scythe.. a tudor facaded building you can either toast or damn the Earl of Derby; it is here that he was hanged for his acts. The pub, still open to this day, is on Churchgate and is the oldest pub in Bolton, dating from 1251, and the 15th oldest in Britain. So go have a pint there before the match lads and lasses and lets have a report on the pale ales please. Worth an honorary mention, if you are into ancient-ish structures, is Smithills Halls built in 1451. So what of todays opponents. Bolton Wanderers were formed in 1874, albeit as Christ Church Football Club for the first 3 years, and played at Burnden Park for 102 years until they moved to the Macron Giro Cheques Stadium in Horwich in 1997. They have won 4 FA Cups... blimey... well done. One of them being the White Horse final where 127k crammed into Wembley.. remember that footage back in the 20's? Their last trophy, of any merit, was the FA Cup of 1958 when two Nat Lofthouse goals secured victory over Man Utd. 73 seasons were spent in the top flight; remarkable, more than any other club without winning the title; perennial bottlers. They have never finished higher than 3rd so we are looking 'down on them' me babbers. One interesting fact is that Burnden Park, at one time, could hold 73,000 fans. probably the highest capacity relative the town's population of any football club in the land, I would wager. Pretty fanatical support. So where has it all gone wrong in recent times. Too long a story to write here but rumoured to be around £200 million pounds in debt, albeit largely held by its current owner, means Bolton find themselves in somewhat of a straightjacket. Bottom of the Championship with, according to Lennon, no money to spend and seemingly heading only in one direction. Lennon will likely pay the price with his job sooner rather than later as is the madness of the game but it will not stop their continued fall unless their financial burden can be properly corrected. Today will surely be THE ideal opportunity for a back to back for City then. I can genuinely only see one result here. I don't believe in tempting fate. City should have too much for Bolton, they really should. If we fail to even get a point it will be an absolutely shocking result of gargantuan proportions. OK thats a bit much but you know what I am getting at. Well done to all those going and sing your hearts out and bring us back a win. 1-3 please. Kodjia with two and errr... Agard with the other and Williams with an OG. UTC Edited November 7, 2015 by havanatopia 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Looking forward to this game. Expecting us to win, I would be disappointed if we left with less than 3 points. I reckon we will win 2-0, goals from Flint and Freeman. COYR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Condensed Version Bolton (as written by Aizoon this week): if you sing "this is a shithole, I want to go home" up there, the home fans will probably join in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Condensed Version Bolton (BigTones version): A Cess pool 2nd only to Wales inhabited by Cretins and a red headed tosspot 2nd only to Welshmen Edited November 7, 2015 by BigTone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 12 minutes ago, Selred said: Looking forward to this game. Expecting us to win, I would be disappointed if we left with less than 3 points. I reckon we will win 2-0, goals from Flint and Freeman. COYR. I'm thinking the same but with Kodjia & Bennet on the scoresheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cider city red 81 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I'd go: Fielding Bennett Ayling Flint Baker Bryan Smith Pack Freeman Wilbs Kodiak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 2 minutes ago, cider city red 81 said: I'd go: Fielding Bennett Ayling Flint Baker Bryan Smith Pack Freeman Wilbs Kodiak Why would you drop Williams who's been one of our best players since moving to LWB? Also why would you drop Agard who has won many plaudits for his performance against Wolves. Personally I'd stick to the same team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cider city red 81 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Just coz Bryan and Wilbs would have definitely got 2 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) 31 minutes ago, BigTone said: Condensed Version Bolton (as written by Aizoon this week): if you sing "this is a shithole, I want to go home" up there, the home fans will probably join in. Horwich Works was the main workshop of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway. Swindon Works was the main workshop of the Great Western Railway. Are we seeing a pattern here? ... Edited November 7, 2015 by Aizoon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 7 minutes ago, cider city red 81 said: Just coz Bryan and Wilbs would have definitely got 2 each. That's a brilliant answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 13 minutes ago, Fordy62 said: That's a brilliant answer. I don't get it, 2 goals each? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Come on the City - time to start climbing the table. We need to hit mid table and then we can all begin to enjoy this season. 2 -1 city win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 9 minutes ago, reddogkev said: I don't get it, 2 goals each? 2 goals each and we win 3-0 ................................. simple mathematics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 38 minutes ago, cider city red 81 said: I'd go: Fielding Bennett Ayling Flint Baker Bryan Smith Pack Freeman Wilbs Kodiak Great idea. That's the last thing they'll expect. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Surely this is Kodiak Edited November 7, 2015 by BigTone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 6 minutes ago, BigTone said: Surely this is Kodiak You mean that's an i and not a j? Nurse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Refreshing to see we've managed 17 posts on the matchday thread without anyone calling this a "must win" game. Only a matter of time though surely.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 14 minutes ago, BigTone said: Surely this is Kodiak Isn't it a bear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said: Refreshing to see we've managed 17 posts on the matchday thread without anyone calling this a "must win" game. Only a matter of time though surely.... Must not lose game imho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 15 minutes ago, BigTone said: Surely this is Kodiak No. This is a Kodiak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 3 minutes ago, Aizoon said: No. This is a Kodiak. So coming onto this thread at this point i'm pleased to see we're all on topic......... BTW went to the egg chasing last night with the boys rugger team... whats all that about then?? South stands very nice though i must say, decent pie as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1-3 , Kodja 2, Flint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 2 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said: Must not lose game imho. Well that didn't take long. So what happens if we do lose? Prepare for League 1? 30 games to go after today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 11 minutes ago, Aizoon said: No. This is a Kodiak. I thought that was a Hedgehog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Lovely and sunny up north Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 3 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: Well that didn't take long. So what happens if we do lose? Prepare for League 1? 30 games to go after today... Plenty to go after today, yes. Bolton is the kind of team we need to be beating if we want to have a good season. Sure, some think just staying up will be ok. I don't. I think we need to do a bit better than that. Above 15th to keep any momentum and some of our best players. Beating a team like Bolton is one way to get the momentum flowing and back to back wins. Especially as well be very much the underdog in our next match against Hull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 22 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: Refreshing to see we've managed 17 posts on the matchday thread without anyone calling this a "must win" game. Only a matter of time though surely.... We will win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 23 minutes ago, Aizoon said: No. This is a Kodiak. That'll be the twin lens version. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 22 minutes ago, BigTone said: I thought that was a Hedgehog You really wouldn't want to run over that hedgehog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 50 minutes ago, Aizoon said: No. This is a Kodiak. You wouldn't want to spill his pint! Or is it Sam Allardyce continueing the Bolton theme? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Bolton dont score alot. Home they are hard to beat. Hope and Think we can have Another Clean sheet. If we manage to do that we have at least one Point. Think we take all 3. 2-0 City. Always Believe. Coyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Chivs said: You wouldn't want to spill his pint! Or is it Sam Allardyce continueing the Bolton theme? The resemblance is uncanny. I saw Sam Allardyce play against us at Wembley Edited November 7, 2015 by Aizoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 26 minutes ago, Aizoon said: You really wouldn't want to run over that hedgehog No, but I'd be more interested seeing it sitting on your settee each night 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 2 minutes ago, BigTone said: No, but I'd be more interested seeing it sitting on your settee each night Yes, but I wouldn't have any trouble with the stewards getting it into the Gate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 2 minutes ago, Aizoon said: Yes, but I wouldn't have any trouble with the stewards getting it into the Gate No I agree, but the Hedgehog flap in your backdoor must be quite big 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 minute ago, BigTone said: No I agree, but the Hedgehog flap in your backdoor must be quite big it is now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 5 minutes ago, Aizoon said: it is now Where does it sleep ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 minute ago, BigTone said: Where does it sleep ? Wherever it likes! BOOM BOOM! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Aizoon said: Wherever it likes! BOOM BOOM! We should be a double act but could our wives bear it or just get all grizzly Edited November 7, 2015 by BigTone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCulturalBomb Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Going for a solid 2-1. We are better than them, plus we are playing better than them anyway. 2 stats for you: We have the highest Ariel duels wins in the league We are by stats the team most likely to score against the opponent away (quite like that one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 minute ago, TheCulturalBomb said: We have the highest Ariel duels wins in the league Is that like the Daz doorstep challenge ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 10 minutes ago, Doozerchris said: sunny up north Corrected that for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCulturalBomb Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Just now, BigTone said: Is that like the Daz doorstep challenge ? I can't think of anything witty or funny to say to that. If you can contact Danny Baker for me we'll think up something and show you our whites in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 hour ago, Doozerchris said: up north Corrected further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 minute ago, TheCulturalBomb said: I can't think of anything witty or funny to say to that. If you can contact Danny Baker for me we'll think up something and show you our whites in a few months. Will it take that long to get them white again ? Eeeewwww yuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChillyTrav Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Confident of a big win today, a new positive voice to the forum, coyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 When was the last time we won two championship games in a row? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 minute ago, RedDave said: When was the last time we won two championship games in a row? At a guess didn't we smash Palace and someone else 2 weeks in a row the year they won promotion to the Prem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 minute ago, Fordy62 said: At a guess didn't we smash Palace and someone else 2 weeks in a row the year they won promotion to the Prem? Maybe. I can't be bothered to look it up so am happy with the answer 'a long time ago'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 hour ago, Aizoon said: No. This is a Kodiak. Ahh, right so a Kodiak is a kind of big Fox Brownie then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) 3 minutes ago, RedDave said: Maybe. I can't be bothered to look it up so am happy with the answer 'a long time ago'. I did have a look but it proved too hard. And I'm too sleepy and lazy to look harder. Palace and Cardiff is my suggestion though. Those two results made us think we were ace. We weren't. Edited November 7, 2015 by Fordy62 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ernie goodthing Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I watched Bolton lose 0-2 at Ipswich on Tuesday. They were very poor and should have lost by a few more. Presented very little threat and beaten to every 50:50 ball. Maybe not a must win game, but definitely a should win game today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Hoping for a win but they've only lost at home once this season so a draw must be favourite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 minute ago, ernie goodthing said: I watched Bolton lose 0-2 at Ipswich on Tuesday. They were very poor and should have lost by a few more. Presented very little threat and beaten to every 50:50 ball. Maybe not a must win game, but definitely a should win game today. It's say it's more of a 'might win' game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 5 minutes ago, Fordy62 said: I did have a look but it proved too hard. And I'm too sleepy and lazy to look harder. Palace and Cardiff is my suggestion though. Those two results made us think we were ace. We weren't. Yes it was Palace and Cardiff. I remember thinking we'd avoid a relegation battle after those games. How wrong I was. Today's game could be tough. Bolton will be desperate to win to avoid being marooned in the relegation zone. Our players must avoid complacency and maintain the discipline they showed against Wolves. A win would be great but my hunch is it will be a draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Controller Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 12 minutes ago, Fordy62 said: I did have a look but it proved too hard. And I'm too sleepy and lazy to look harder. Palace and Cardiff is my suggestion though. Those two results made us think we were ace. We weren't. I was on holiday for both of those games. Somebody text me that we'd scored 4 and Woolford was MoM and I just knew he was bullshitting. When I got a similar text after the second game I couldn't believe that either. I returned home expecting a great season and was extremely disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 45 minutes ago, BigTone said: We should be a double act but could our wives bear it or just get all grizzly You need to take control of the situation gentlemen and this joke seems to fit the bill... A man walks into a bar and asks for a beer. After drinking it, he looks in his shirt pocket and asks for another beer. After drinking that one, he looks in his shirt pocket again and asks for another beer. This happens about another seven times before the bartender asks him, "Why do you keep looking in your pocket?" The man replies, "I have a picture of my wife in there. When she looks good enough, I'll go home." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartcliffe red Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 https://youtu.be/tmCE-JwrfhA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Happy with the starting line-up - let's go get a result. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 2 - 0 City .... Fielding to play a blinder, Codger and Flint, woodwork hit by both sides - good win but a nail biter til the end. (or am I dreaming) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_eastender Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) 8 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said: Same line up as for Wolves then Good, was concerned Cotts would reinstate Wilbs to the starting 11. Would not have minded Reid getting the nod over Freeman, but maybe today will be the day Luke shows us what he can do at this level. COYR Edited November 7, 2015 by old_eastender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 10 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said: KInd of fancy a beer.. But its a bear not a beer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyhutchscurlymullet Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 19 minutes ago, Hartcliffe red said: https://youtu.be/tmCE-JwrfhA That is amazing. You can tell every one of them are just about the pee themselves as soon as the camara stops filming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 34 minutes ago, havanatopia said: You need to take control of the situation gentlemen and this joke seems to fit the bill... A man walks into a bar and asks for a beer. After drinking it, he looks in his shirt pocket and asks for another beer. After drinking that one, he looks in his shirt pocket again and asks for another beer. This happens about another seven times before the bartender asks him, "Why do you keep looking in your pocket?" The man replies, "I have a picture of my wife in there. When she looks good enough, I'll go home." No wonder Tony Blair introduced all night drinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Kodjia is in the throes of a heavy head cold, but pronounced himself fit to play. If he can't beat his man, at least he can sneeze on him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 The manager has finally after these last 2 matches got there with team selection. Let's hope he also has learnt about tactics as last time out. For me, only substitutions and teaching Fielding how to distribute the ball remain. Perhaps we shall see change on these two issues today. Here's hoping COYR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tauntonian Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 get in there, Agards starting again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tauntonian Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 anyone got any online radio coverage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 minute ago, Tauntonian said: get in there, Agards starting again! Agard was fit and ready to start on Tuesday and did well. Barring injuries it was always going to be an unchanged team today. Let's hope Kieran can notch one today, all strikers thrive off hitting the back of the net regularly however much praise they get for other contributions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 So, instead of a nail-on victory, is this a bolt-on victory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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