POLL FOR NEW BOSS - THE SEARCH BEGINS

[havanatopia]

In my humble opinion City need to appoint a high profile manager, who has a decent points per game ratio, preferably has a formation preference similar to what we have now but is flexible and intelligent enough to know we need to change it if need be and have the players to adapt. The new manager also has to have at the very least Championship, or higher level, experience but does not necessarily need to have experience of managing in England. A combination of all of the above and with the ability to give city that bounce usually experienced when a new manager comes in are, I would say pre-requisites.

That said, I do not believe in any way shape or form that Steve Cotterill lost the dressing room. I think he had a very tight knit unit and I am personally very sad to see him go. Why now? I can only assume something tilted the board in the last 48-72 hours otherwise why make the change half way through a transfer window; the powers that be had their hand played for them otherwise they would not have acted. My view.

I wish SC all the best and thank him for the fabulous work he did at the club; his legacy here is assured.

I would go with Moyes or a foreign coach, perhaps di Matteo, probably one who can demonstrate fast recruitment of players that will keep us up.

Tisdale's points record is poor and he has no experience at this level. Why Monk is being touted is a mystery to me; I included both here only to show their points tally and to see how many will vote for them; they are way too inexperienced. Redknapp and Warnock are omitted because they are past their best in my view. Both have an approximately 1.5 points average.. impressive given the number of games they have managed and they might just be short term options. I have also omitted Paulo di Canio because he might be a rather divisive figure. 

Some of the perhaps lesser known names on this list should in my view be considered.

I would just add that Rodgers is the only one with a preferred 3 at the back formation. di Matteo's stats are impressive and just edges it for me over Moyes but I would be happy with many of the names on this list.

Please note according to the source below only Paul Tisdale is currently in a manager's job. All others are apparently available, have been out of a job for less than 2 years and are all, with the exception of Monk, on higher than average points per game ratios.

Source for my stats:- www.transfermarkt.com so I am relying on that site for accuracy.

 

Edited January 15, 2016 by havanatopia

[supercidered]

A well written piece in my opinion.

Not sure I agree with it but that's what a forum is for. I think we need to be brave and pick a real battle hardened manager. His remit is just to ensure we don't go down and give him a huge bonus / contract extension if he achieves it. I think and I hate myself for saying it but Warnock is an in the trenches sort who could just grind things out for us. Whats past is past and he has a house in the south west. Fancy football and formations is not what will keep us up. Giving away goals late in the game and a tiny tiring young squad will get us relegated whoever is in charge. Desperate times call for desperate measures!

[havanatopia]

Supercidered, For your benefit and others i have added Warnock.

As I said in my OP, Warnock could be a short term solution but nothing more. That said I think Pembo/Wade can do that or we hit the ground running now with a long term appointment. .. what I would do.

[BS13 Robin]

I like the look of Gus Poyet playing a 4-4-4-2-formation that could give us an edge..............if we have enough players!!!

[supercidered]

8 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Supercidered, For your benefit and others i have added Warnock.

As I said in my OP, Warnock could be a short term solution but nothing more. That said I think Pembo/Wade can do that or we hit the ground running now with a long term appointment. .. what I would do.

I have to agree with that on both counts!

[LondonBristolian]

I'd obviously go for Moyes if he said yes.but don't believe he would.  Of more realistic options, I'd be happy with Garry Monk or Di Matteo.  Or indeed Chris Powell.  In terms of leftfield options that are showing up on the bookies' lists, I'm a bit intrigued by Jaap Stam and wonder if the board should interview him and see if they like what he has to say.  Pearson'd be interesting but it'd basically be signing the closest thing we could find to a carbon copy of Cotterill and it'd make me wonder about the logic of replacing him in the first place. 

I'm massively against Warnock for one reason alone, which is that I'm aware he doesn't sign or play young players for the future because he only wants players who'll make him look good in the short-term rather than building clubs for the long-term.  I also think we need someone who's more of a head coach than a conventional control-all manager.

[Port Said Red]

I would love Moyes or Di Matteo, I don't have an issue with Pearson, I wouldn't want to go for a pint with him but that's neither here nor there. I think the win ratio is a little misleading, Moyes has never managed outside the Premier league and I would say on that basis his win ratio supersedes almost all the others. I really don't want a short term person whether it is Warnock or anyone else.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Port Said Red

[City1984]

Julen LopeteguI. 

 

No ideal who he is but points per game and attacking formation. 

 

Job done

[Septic Peg]

Gutted Jose isn't on there...

[havanatopia]

5 minutes ago, gloucester robin said:

I like the look of Gus Poyet playing a 4-4-4-2-formation that could give us an edge..............if we have enough players!!!

Thanks and amended.

[supercidered]

Of course we would love Moyes to come here or Di Matteo and the other big names. They just won't come here. We can't attract a kid from Bolton ffs and we need to dig in and fight and we need someone who will squeeze every last point out this threadbare squad and bring in some tried and trusted experienced battlers.... even if it is for the short term.

[BRISTOL86]

Pearson for me is head and shoulders above the other realistic shouts. 

[BCFC_Josh]

Tony Mowbray and Steve Clarke are both names not mentioned in the poll. Mowbray has vast experience in the Championship and has had a good season so far with Coventry in League One. Clarke is well known to us having already managed at Fulham this season. I think both managers would have good contacts in order to bring in players during the remainder of the transfer window. As much as Moyes or Di Matteo would be superb appointments, I don't think either are realistic, and the club should be looking at managers such as Mowbray and Clarke. 

[havanatopia]

13 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Of course we would love Moyes to come here or Di Matteo and the other big names. They just won't come here. We can't attract a kid from Bolton ffs and we need to dig in and fight and we need someone who will squeeze every last point out this threadbare squad and bring in some tried and trusted experienced battlers.... even if it is for the short term.

Coppell came, why not Moyes? Clough did not come because of our lowly league position and perhaps the perception of Cotterill although i doubt that point. 

Why do many believe we cannot attract a big name? There are 92 clubs, 44 in the top two divisions and, right now, I believe we are about the only vacancy or perhaps one other. There are many top name manager's unemployed and always only a very few vacancies; they can rot away at home and, if they are out of a job too long, people will start to ask why. For them City is either a great opportunity or a stepping stone back into a bigger job. Either way we are, for sure, a big attraction to many top managers.

Edited January 15, 2016 by havanatopia

[kingswood red]

16 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I would love Moyes or Di Matteo, I don't have an issue with Pearson, I wouldn't want to go for a pint with him but that's neither here nor there. I think the win ratio is a little misleading, Moyes has never managed outside the Premier league and I would say on that basis his win ratio supersedes almost all the others. I really don't want a short term person whether it is Warnock or anyone else.

Moyes managed PNE for four years,  getting promotion before he went to Everton.

[RedAlexD]

What about Michael Laudrup? Has he been mentioned? 

 

Don't bite my head off.. 

[havanatopia]

13 minutes ago, BCFC Josh said:

Tony Mowbray and Steve Clarke are both names not mentioned in the poll. Mowbray has vast experience in the Championship and has had a good season so far with Coventry in League One. Clarke is well known to us having already managed at Fulham this season. I think both managers would have good contacts in order to bring in players during the remainder of the transfer window. As much as Moyes or Di Matteo would be superb appointments, I don't think either are realistic, and the club should be looking at managers such as Mowbray and Clarke. 

Tony Mowbray is in a job and has a pointer per game figure of 1.47.. lower than my cut off; cannot put everyone up there. I put Tisdale and Monk, as I said, only because many people have talked about them. As for Steve Clarke?.. what exactly has he done? very inexperienced and not a big name which, in my opinion, we need. And....

His PPG is 1.25.. pretty abysmal.

Edited January 15, 2016 by havanatopia

[havanatopia]

5 minutes ago, RedAlexD said:

What about Michael Laudrup? Has he been mentioned? 

 

Don't bite my head off.. 

PPG = 1.45

I thought he was like a deflated balloon at Swansea.

And too inexperienced in my opinion. 

[Fordy62]

Initially I wanted McIness. He was shit. 

I wanted O'Driscoll. He was ultra shit. 

Initially I didn't want Cotts. He was immense. 

So, to conclude, I'd like someone I don't want. 

[Phileas Fogg]

Haven't heard of a few of those names, are the in bookies odds @havanatopia or just suggestions?

[The Joker]

The club will now be looking to recruit a new head coach.

Dawe added: “I thank Steve Cotterill for all his efforts over the last two seasons. Sadly we haven’t managed to push on from last season and the time has come for us to all move forward.

“The club’s aspiration is to ultimately become a Premier League club and this decision has been made to achieve our overall strategy for growth and player development.”

Yes we hear you..now stop faffing about and give Moyes what he wants to sort this merry go round of mediocrity out.

[havanatopia]

6 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Initially I wanted McIness. He was shit. 

I wanted O'Driscoll. He was ultra shit. 

Initially I didn't want Cotts. He was immense. 

So, to conclude, I'd like someone I don't want. 

Go with City1984 then. points per game is immense..

Name in home country:	Julen Lopetegui Argote
Date of birth:	Sep 28, 1966
Place of birth:	Asteasu
Age:	49
Nationality:	Spain
ø term as coach:	1,60 Years
Points per match as manager:	2,37
Success rate as coach:	74,0 % Wins 15,4 % Draw 10,6 % Losses
Trainer licence :	UEFA Pro licence
Preferred formation:	4-3-3 off. IN CHARGE AT FC PORTO until a week ago. You don't ask you don't get.

Edited January 15, 2016 by havanatopia

[havanatopia]

41 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'd obviously go for Moyes if he said yes.but don't believe he would.  Of more realistic options, I'd be happy with Garry Monk or Di Matteo.  Or indeed Chris Powell.  In terms of left field options that are showing up on the bookies' lists, I'm a bit intrigued by Jaap Stam and wonder if the board should interview him and see if they like what he has to say.  Pearson'd be interesting but it'd basically be signing the closest thing we could find to a carbon copy of Cotterill and it'd make me wonder about the logic of replacing him in the first place. 

I'm massively against Warnock for one reason alone, which is that I'm aware he doesn't sign or play young players for the future because he only wants players who'll make him look good in the short-term rather than building clubs for the long-term.  I also think we need someone who's more of a head coach than a conventional control-all manager.

Chris Powell - PPG = 1.41. he likes a 4-4-2

Jaap Stam - PPG = 1.85 - 4-3-3 - albeit with Ajax U21 team of which he is currently still doing. So he is in a job but not a bad possibility out of the left field as you say. There would be compensation I assume though.

[havanatopia]

11 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Haven't heard of a few of those names, are the in bookies odds @havanatopia or just suggestions?

I like it... how about havanabet.com ?

roll up roll up place your bets

Edited January 15, 2016 by havanatopia

[Kingswood Robin]

I look at that list and ask why is Tisdale even on it. Poor PPG and if Cotterill couldn't attract them, what presence has Tisdale got? 

The only person I can see there that we could realistically get, and has the experience for the next level that we need to get to, is Pearson. If not, a short term Warnock to get us out of the cart.

 

[havanatopia]

3 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I look at that list and ask why is Tisdale even on it. Poor PPG and if Cotterill couldn't attract them, what presence has Tisdale got? 

The only person I can see there that we could realistically get, and has the experience for the next level that we need to get to, is Pearson. If not, a short term Warnock to get us out of the cart.

 

Please read my OP you lazy scalliwag !!

[Natchfever]

I understand the logic of a high profile manager but one of those usually expects a high profile budget and I do not believe that the club will provide that. Certainly not with a couple of weeks to go in the silly season.

Colin for me short term.If we stay up then the owner needs to look at the club top to bottom if he's really serious about the prem.

[Kingswood Robin]

2 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Please read my OP you lazy scalliwag !!

Okay, I should have said this list, or any other list. The Bristol Post, albeit out of date, say he's the bookies favourite and his name comes up every time we need a new manager. I don't really know why.

[Kingswood Robin]

28 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Go with City1984 then. points per game is immense..

Name in home country:	Julen Lopetegui Argote
Date of birth:	Sep 28, 1966
Place of birth:	Asteasu
Age:	49
Nationality:	Spain
ø term as coach:	1,60 Years
Points per match as manager:	2,37
Success rate as coach:	74,0 % Wins 15,4 % Draw 10,6 % Losses
Trainer licence :	UEFA Pro licence
Preferred formation:	4-3-3 off. IN CHARGE AT FC PORTO until a week ago. You don't ask you don't get.

Does that points per match include his time as Spanish under 20something coach? I don't think he has a lot of experience as the top man.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Kingswood Robin

[Simon79]

Could we add Glenn Hoddle? Maybe unrealistic, but might like our plan( if we still have one that is!). Also very tactically savvy, who I also believe has adopted a 3-5-2 formation in his career. Would easily attract players I would imagine. Would be the big name a lot seem to be craving. Has spent time in this part of the country. Would really be a show of intent. Anyone else with me? Or am I up in the clouds on my own!? Although I've not got a clue about win percentage.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Simon79

[Ohbasso]

Moyes would be my ideal appointment but I can't see it happening so I voted Pearson.

He seems the obvious choice out of the managers linked, he's out of work, has a great record at this level and has premiership experience.

[Simon79]

Should also of added that Hoddle is readily available to start now! A complete waste of talent that bloke sat in a studio talking about the game. Would imagine he still has a lot of connections, even France! Which seems to be floating our boat at the minute. 

Edited January 15, 2016 by Simon79

[pongo88]

This is crazy. When I looked 40% had voted for David Moyes. Whilst we're at it why don't we have a vote for which forward we should sign, and all vote for Jamie Vardy?

[ChippenhamRed]

I never trust points per game as an analysis tool.  Put me in charge of Celtic and I dare say my points per game score would be excellent.

[REDOXO]

Why does no one think we would not approach a club in complete financial mess and try and get their manager for a compo amount that they could apply to their debt and tax man and has been linked with the club in a recent non deal....If only there was a scenario like that! Oh Wait!

[havanatopia]

30 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

Okay, I should have said this list, or any other list. The Bristol Post, albeit out of date, say he's the bookies favourite and his name comes up every time we need a new manager. I don't really know why.

Me neither. Tisdale would be a really backward step.

22 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

Does that points per match include his time as Spanish under 20something coach? I don't think he has a lot of experience as the top man.

More time and matches at Porto, his last job, where he won 53, drew 16 , and lost 9. 

Spain Under 21 - 17, 1, 0 respectively.

Spain Under 19 - 10, 2 , 2

Spain Under 20 - 9, 0, 2

Not a lot of experience is correct and why not really the ideal candidate; he is in there because of his superb stats, albeit few games and the continental connection where we have scouts in France and Spain.

22 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Could we add Glenn Hoddle? Maybe unrealistic, but might like our plan( if we still have one that is!). Also very tactically savvy, who I also believe has adopted a 3-5-2 formation in his career. Would easily attract players I would imagine. Would be the big name a lot seem to be craving. Has spent time in this part of the country. Would really be a show of intent. Anyone else with me? Or am I up in the clouds on my own!? Although I've not got a clue about win percentage.

PPG = 1.39 ... not very good. He has also been out of the game too long in my opinion.

Edited January 15, 2016 by havanatopia

[stephenkibby.]

8 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Should also of added that Hoddle is readily available to start now! A complete waste of talent that bloke sat in a studio talking about the game. Would imagine he still has a lot of connections, even France! Which seems to be floating our boat at the minute. 

Was thinking the same, great knowledge of the game and would be the best free kick taker on the training ground!!

 

Sadly tho never going to happen.

[SecretSam]

2 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

hoddle

PPG = 1.39 ... not very good. He has also been out of the game too long in my opinion.

Plus he does like a wing back system...

[havanatopia]

9 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I never trust points per game as an analysis tool.  Put me in charge of Celtic and I dare say my points per game score would be excellent.

It is as I said in my OP one of the tools not the only one. I would also suggest that the list is a reference point to those out of the game the shortest time with the best PPG; on average most will not have managed in such a one sided division as the SPL. It is also mixed with those on the bookies list and those many on here have talked about; it is not definitive, it is not scientific but it does show a group of managers most of which have a level of talent and nous that could, not would, be a possible option and there is no reason we should not be going after such candidates given the few vacancies out there at any given time.

[Kingswood Robin]

7 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Me neither. Tisdale would be a really backward step.

More time and matches at Porto, his last job, where he won 53, drew 16 , and lost 9. 

Spain Under 21 - 17, 1, 0 respectively.

Spain Under 19 - 10, 2 , 2

Spain Under 20 - 9, 0, 2

Not a lot of experience is correct and why not really the ideal candidate; he is in there because of his superb stats, albeit few games and the continental connection where we have scouts in France and Spain.

PPG = 1.39 ... not very good. He has also been out of the game too long in my opinion.

Must be a tough gig in Porto!

[Simon79]

9 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Me neither. Tisdale would be a really backward step.

More time and matches at Porto, his last job, where he won 53, drew 16 , and lost 9. 

Spain Under 21 - 17, 1, 0 respectively.

Spain Under 19 - 10, 2 , 2

Spain Under 20 - 9, 0, 2

Not a lot of experience is correct and why not really the ideal candidate; he is in there because of his superb stats, albeit few games and the continental connection where we have scouts in France and Spain.

PPG = 1.39 ... not very good. He has also been out of the game too long in my opinion.

I believe he was coaching at QPR fairly recently. Think it was possibly alongside big Joe. Seem to remember reading quotes about how good he was. Just thought it was an option. 

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, kingswood red said:

Moyes managed PNE for four years,  getting promotion before he went to Everton.

Of course he did sorry.....

[Port Said Red]

46 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Plus he does like a wing back system...

He used to employ more of a diamond, as I remember he developed it for himself to reduce the tracking back later in his career.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Port Said Red

[havanatopia]

43 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

I believe he was coaching at QPR fairly recently. Think it was possibly alongside big Joe. Seem to remember reading quotes about how good he was. Just thought it was an option. 

Yes you are right; he was a coach under Harry alongside a few others, not a boss, which lasted 6 months to Feb 2014. Prior to that he left the Manager's job at Wolves in 2006. Coaching under a manager is one thing but I would suggest being in charge is far more important as a yardstick.

[Simon79]

9 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

He used to employ more of a diamond, as I remember he developed it for himself to reduce the tracking back later in his career.

He has used them both and more. Which shows his versatility, something that Cotts was criticised of lacking. I just think his philosophy on the game is spot on. Think he was recently talking about a player, possibly Ross Barkley. How he gives the ball away occasionally, his response was something along the lines of, he might give the ball away 3 times out of 10. But he will create you something 3 times more than any other player, let him make mistakes! That is something too many managers are scared of doing, let the talented players do what they do best. Don't try and make them into robots or headless chickens. Like I said, something along those lines. Spot on imo.

['Orns]

Hoddle is my childhood hero, so I'd love to see him here. I can imagine one or two who wouldn't for the incredibly stupid crap he came out with about disabled people, and I would completely understand that

I don't get the feeling that GH is going to want to get his hands dirty on the day to day stuff now though. Maybe he could be in an advisory capacity with a younger manager, Justin Edinburgh, perhaps

From that list I've gone for Pearson. I don't think the board have the spine to appoint someone who will tell them what they don't want to hear though

I reckon Colin, until end of season, and see where we wake up come 1st July, will be more likely

[supercidered]

2 hours ago, RedAlexD said:

What about Michael Laudrup? Has he been mentioned? 

 

Don't bite my head off.. 

We've got more chance of signing him to play!

[...]

Ahem.

Would most of the managers in the poll come to City?

Just sayin.

 

Uncle TFR

[Red-Robbo]

20 minutes ago, Taxi for Rennie said:

Ahem.

Would most of the managers in the poll come to City?

Just sayin.

 

Uncle TFR

We'd have to persuade their dads 

Edited January 15, 2016 by Red-Robbo

[...]

I'll tell you who would be a popular choice with the fans?

 

 

Uncle TFR

[Bazooka Joe]

4 hours ago, gloucester robin said:

I like the look of Gus Poyet playing a 4-4-4-2-formation that could give us an edge..............if we have enough players!!!

With our thin squad, the only formation we can play is 1-1-1-1 and no-one on the bench

[NOTBLUE]

You missed Mike Bassett off of the list,I mean he might not improve our results,but it wouldn't be boring that's's for sure.

[RedYoshi]

I'll do it.

And @havanatopia will write my programme notes.

Sorted - see you tomorrow.

[Guest Eugene Victor Tooms]

Isn't Gus Poyet employed in Greece these days.  AEK Athens I recall.

[havanatopia]

37 minutes ago, Eugene Victor Tooms said:

Isn't Gus Poyet employed in Greece these days.  AEK Athens I recall.

You are correct... one slipped through the net there. Well spotted Eugene.

[Charliesboots]

Anyone mentioned Gary Neville yet...,,?

[Slack Bladder]

I'm going to stay out of this as I thought SOD, McInnes and Coppell were all good appointments and was totally underwhelmed when Cotts got the job.

Just goes to show I know absolutely eff all about running a football club.

I will continue to support the team whoever comes in and whichever division that might be

 

Edited January 15, 2016 by Slack Bladder

[Simon79]

5 hours ago, Woodsy said:

Hoddle is my childhood hero, so I'd love to see him here. I can imagine one or two who wouldn't for the incredibly stupid crap he came out with about disabled people, and I would completely understand that

I don't get the feeling that GH is going to want to get his hands dirty on the day to day stuff now though. Maybe he could be in an advisory capacity with a younger manager, Justin Edinburgh, perhaps

From that list I've gone for Pearson. I don't think the board have the spine to appoint someone who will tell them what they don't want to hear though

I reckon Colin, until end of season, and see where we wake up come 1st July, will be more likely

I fully understand people's reservations ( for want of a better phrase )with regards his stupid comments. But its his philosophy on football, his name, his record and his potential draw on new signings I'm thinking about. I think he has said previously that he has had offers but never had the right project put in front of him. I believe Bristol City is potentially a great project. And as I've mentioned previously, he has been in this neck of the woods previously. 

[Goatersfloater]

Your forgetting this guy............

[Inactive user]

How the hell is Terry Butcher not on that list??

[havanatopia]

5 hours ago, Rednwhiterob said:

How the hell is Terry Butcher not on that list??

Name in home country:	Terence Ian Butcher
Date of birth:	Dec 28, 1958
Place of birth:	Singapur
Age:	57
Nationality:	England
ø term as coach:	1,63 Years
Points per match as manager:	1,37
Success rate as coach:	37,3 % Wins 24,7 % Draw 38,0 % Losses
Trainer licence :	UEFA Pro licence
Preferred formation:	4-4-2

[havanatopia]

10 hours ago, Goatlover69 said:

Your forgetting this guy............

How could anyone possibly forget Jose.

'A romantic dream' is the only thing i can reply with.

[havanatopia]

Would any mods be able to shine a light as to why viewing who voted for who appears not to be working? Anybody else notice that? I am sure i ticked that box. 

[citywest30]

Voted Moyes but obviously out of our reach I'd have thought. Used to hate listening to Pearson talk in interviews but used to feel the same about Cotterill before he joined us. However that BBC interview changed my views a bit and I'd actually prefer him over Moyes now and much more realistic. 

[RedYoshi]

4 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Would any mods be able to shine a light as to why viewing who voted for who appears not to be working? Anybody else notice that? I am sure i ticked that box. 

Happening in the prediction thread too, hav. Seems to only be new polls in the past couple of days - older ones still load correctly. Maybe only works when we have a manager in place? You know, otherwise 'names' won't come...

[Bristol Rob]

Read the title of this thread and thought we'd appointed referee Graham.

[havanatopia]

Gus Poyet's preferred formation is 4-1-4-1 ... the only one here... we apparently switched to that 2nd half v Boro today.

A sign?

Edited January 16, 2016 by havanatopia

[RedYoshi]

12 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Gus Poyet's preferred formation is 4-1-4-1 ... the only one here... we apparently switched to that 2nd half v Boro today.

A sign?

Pah. Need to add Wade Elliott up there now.

3.00 points per game average - can't beat that.

[havanatopia]

21 minutes ago, RedYoshi said:

Pah. Need to add Wade Elliott up there now.

3.00 points per game average - can't beat that.

Pembo not a consideration then?

[havanatopia]

Oscar Garcia.