reddogkev Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I guess the question really depends on what our ambition is this season. Looking at the squad as it stands, if no more players were signed, what can we reasonably expect? My excitement with regards our summer signings has now naturally faded, and despite our general agreement that we have recruited well, have we done enough? Following the recent sales of Ayling & Agard, the release of Waggy, the temporary exit of Burns, and the departures of loan men Baker and Pierce, the playing staff were really down to the bare bones. So we needed to recruit heavily just to fill up our quota of players. I am now concerned that we haven't strengthened enough to challenge in the league over a full season, especially with our unexpected early-season cup run (!), and the injury to Matthews. We've been very fortunate with a lack of injuries over the past 2 seasons, but as all gamblers know, this luck can't roll on for ever. If we want to be competitive this season, I feel we still need at least 2 if not 3 very good players, what are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 its progress on last season and top 10 should be the aim, comfortably avoiding a relegation battle, Johnson said it will take 3 windows to challenge, we are in the 1st of those windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'm not sure we are looking to be 'competitive' in terms of winning the league or being top 6. I think we are looking to 'compete' which is totally different and with the squad we have so far we will comfortably compete in this league. A mid table finish has to be the goal and we will be comfortable mid table. Next season will be more interesting. You say about the players we have lost, only 2 of those were playing (Ayling, Baker) so I feel we have actually covered those positions well with Magnusson and Matthews (albeit injury) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 8 minutes ago, Monkeh said: its progress on last season and top 10 should be the aim, comfortably avoiding a relegation battle, Johnson said it will take 3 windows to challenge, we are in the 1st of those windows Good point with respect LJ's comments, but (and this isn't a grumble, just a query) why should it take 3 windows? Can't we bring in additional players we need this summer to push us a bit further? With the sprinkle of 2 quality (realistic) players, we would become play-off contenders. Can we afford to wait another 2 windows? The teams around us won't be sitting still, and should, in theory, also be improving on par with us over the next couple of windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I do feel we need to be very careful about aiming anything higher than being competitive and mid table before the team is ready. The team is very much a work in progress although the early season is very encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, reddogkev said: Good point with respect LJ's comments, but (and this isn't a grumble, just a query) why should it take 3 windows? Can't we bring in additional players we need this summer to push us a bit further? With the sprinkle of 2 quality (realistic) players, we would become play-off contenders. It's not as simple as that. You have to wait for X player to come available or his club to sign their replacement quite often before they'll sign. 3 minutes ago, reddogkev said: Can we afford to wait another 2 windows? The teams around us won't be sitting still, and should, in theory, also be improving on par with us over the next couple of windows. Yes, we've spent more money than most clubs in this division but regardless of that, you can't just upgrade a squad completely in one window. You have to find buyers for players who aren't up for it and source their replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betty Swallocks Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 8 minutes ago, reddogkev said: Good point with respect LJ's comments, but (and this isn't a grumble, just a query) why should it take 3 windows? Can't we bring in additional players we need this summer to push us a bit further? With the sprinkle of 2 quality (realistic) players, we would become play-off contenders. Can we afford to wait another 2 windows? The teams around us won't be sitting still, and should, in theory, also be improving on par with us over the next couple of windows. Ffp, it will take 3 windows because the budget will allow for that. This summer was all about getting a squad together, January will be about adding to that if we get the chance of landing someone who will improve our squad. Then expect to see a couple of 'marquee' signings next summer.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 If we were offered 12th place with a decent + goal difference then we should all take that now. It seems clear that we will play good football and attack teams, which is great. I believe that next season will be the first that we can realistically aim for play offs. Anyone thinking we can get there now will be needlessly disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Red Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 The reason it will take more than 1 transfer window is about reputation. This transfer window we were recruiting players as a team who finished 18th in the table and just avoided relegation, so to new signings they must have had doubts as to whether this year would be another relegation scrap. Once we become an established championship team that's when better players are attracted and we can get in a better team that could challenge in the league. Sheffield Wednesday and Newcastle sign bigger names partly because players can be sure that they will be playing for a team that will be up at the top of the league come the end of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 No, I don't believe it is. I think we are vulnerable to injuries and suspensions and need one more striker and at least one, and perhaps two, more defenders. Perhaps Vyner will step this season but I can't see any of the other youngsters filling gaps when it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Set the foundations this year, I'd be happy with a solid mid table finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 minute ago, RedDave said: If we were offered 12th place with a decent + goal difference then we should all take that now. It seems clear that we will play good football and attack teams, which is great. I believe that next season will be the first that we can realistically aim for play offs. Anyone thinking we can get there now will be needlessly disappointed. Even though we have no right to finish higher, I'd feel that if 12th place was offered now, that would be a slight disappointment. Of course, I'd prefer us to push the boat and aim a bit higher. Would it not make more sense to strike whilst the iron is hot, add to the decent squad already assembled, and break comfortably into the top ten, if not higher. And out of interest, why would we be in a better position to challenge next season, rather than this season? Consider this year, and the pull of our completed stadium, this should give the club the kick it needs to move on, because there is a risk that if this season doesn't end well, we might stagnate next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789000 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 52 minutes ago, reddogkev said: I guess the question really depends on what our ambition is this season. Looking at the squad as it stands, if no more players were signed, what can we reasonably expect? My excitement with regards our summer signings has now naturally faded, and despite our general agreement that we have recruited well, have we done enough? Following the recent sales of Ayling & Agard, the release of Waggy, the temporary exit of Burns, and the departures of loan men Baker and Pierce, the playing staff were really down to the bare bones. So we needed to recruit heavily just to fill up our quota of players. I am now concerned that we haven't strengthened enough to challenge in the league over a full season, especially with our unexpected early-season cup run (!), and the injury to Matthews. We've been very fortunate with a lack of injuries over the past 2 seasons, but as all gamblers know, this luck can't roll on for ever. If we want to be competitive this season, I feel we still need at least 2 if not 3 very good players, what are your thoughts? You don't half start a load of topics that are just waffly bollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I've not seen us play yet this season, but from the games so far ( including two against teams recognised as being very strong contenders for the top two) we have been and are competitive. We've been without arguably our most important player ( Smith) and with last season's top scorer yet to get off the mark and Tomlin appearing to not yet be firing on all cylinders. We also have had a new centre back pairing learning to play together. Given all of this, it's not been too bad a start to the season - for goodness sake we are even in the draw for the third round of the league cup!. It sounds like we are playing some decent football but the only thing missing (and how often has this been said over recent seasons) is that we haven't really converted possession and superiority into goals. Abraham has started superbly, but as a team we don't seem clinical enough in front of goal, and this is where better teams are likely to punish us if we don't take more of our chances. I think that LJ hasn't yet determined his best/settled midfield and think this is being made more complicated by Abraham's current form, in that he seems loath to drop Kodjia, but if he plays both JK and TA then it compromises his midfield choices, but that's what he's paid his salary to do. LJ's comment abut 3 windows being needed is probably arse covering, just in case, but I reckon he is a lot closer to a properly competitive team than that. It might however take 3 windows to have a fully competitive squad and that is what we might need if we are really going to challenge at the top end of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WestfieldRed Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, NeilS said: The aim will be to finnish in the top 6, that is not beyond the realms of possibilities. I do feel we are a good outside bet for the top 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said: I do feel we are a good outside bet for the top 6 It's a bit of a strange situation we're in because we've only played sides that weren't in this league last season. We beat two promoted sides and lost against two relegated sides. We haven't been thrashed by anyone and held our own vs Newcastle and Norwich but haven't thrashed anyone ourselves either. It is a very small sample size, but based on that alone we're not a bad side. In reality though, nothing can be read into the league form until the transfer window is shut and each team has played about 10 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cloud Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 not in a relegation fight for most of the season again will do me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 20 minutes ago, NeilS said: The aim will be to finnish in the top 6, that is not beyond the realms of possibilities. Who's aim is that? The season will not be deemed as a failure if we finish 8-12th. I think top 6 is beyond realms of possibility. Plenty of teams ahead of us right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 It will take three windows for several reasons. Recruitment to suit the Head Coach vision will not be wholly possible in one or two windows. Availabilty, price and so many other factors dictate who and when one is able to recruit. Moving on existing players can prove to be as difficult as recruitment - remember how hard it was for McInnes and O'Driscoll to build around the existing squad. The same problem will hamper LJ. Having recruited heavily for the Under 23 squad, we must give them some time in order to give LJ a better knowledge of who out of them, will actually be suitable for the first team. An over large first team squad would only stifle the youngsters development. At present I am cautiously optimistic that we will survive in mid table obscurity this season. although three or four untimely injuries could make that aim a lot more difficult. An interesting season ahead. PS. Last night we pretty well outplayed Scunthorpe who sit second in League One in a way that some Championship sides did to us last season. To become a bigger player at Championship level, we must be more clinical in front of goal and not concede to long balls over the top like we did v. Newcastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I think we will be ok but nothing more than that. Our squad isn't all that in some areas so a run of injuries and suspensions could be harder on us than some other teams in the division. With regard to the "three windows" comment - if we finish say 15th we won't be much of an attraction again next term either to new players or season card holders so there is a fine balance to be had. Lots of goodwill last season with an expectation of improvement. Therefore I think unless we end up firmly in the middle (12th) it will be seen as going backwards in view of the additional quality brought into the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 53 minutes ago, Kotsy said: You don't half start a load of topics that are just waffly bollocks Ha ha, what's a waffly bollock? My wife called me a w*nk-spanner the other day, would that cause a man to have a waffly bollock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 45 minutes ago, WestfieldRed said: Yes Short and sweet, I like the way you roll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I would be happy with a mid table finish. That would mean improvement every year over a four-season period, which is exactly the sort of gradual and sustainable growth we should be looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman Mao Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 21st? Yes 15th? Yes 12th? Maybe 9th? No 6th? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Good enough to compete... Yes, in that meaning we can be competitive against anyone in the division on the day as seen against Newcastle and Norwich whether we lose or not, realistically top half should be the aim this season, shows good progression on last season and given how strong the 3 relegated sides look it would be no shame in missing out on the play offs this year with the division as strong as it is. So a year for players to gel and get the understanding going between them ready for a push next season could be realistic. Only shame will be we won't (or very likely won't) have Tammy next season so would need to bring in that extra quality again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WestfieldRed Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 50 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: I would be happy with a mid table finish. That would mean improvement every year over a four-season period, which is exactly the sort of gradual and sustainable growth we should be looking for. Totally agree. Happy with mid table as long as we're playing slick, attacking football. Another couple of windows to build on the quality in the squad and we can mount a serious challenge in a year or 2. Prem football would be a dream at any time, but when we get there we need to be strong enough to not 'do a Derby'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 2 hours ago, reddogkev said: Ha ha, what's a waffly bollock? My wife called me a w*nk-spanner the other day, would that cause a man to have a waffly bollock? No. A w*nk spanner is what you need, along with a tossers hammer, to put right a waffly bollock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 minute ago, downendcity said: No. A w*nk spanner is what you need, along with a tossers hammer, to put right a waffly bollock. Imperial or Metric ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 LJ has said we will be playing Europa league within the next 5 years and that is all we need to know. Finishing mid-table this season is a price worth paying to be playing euro-footy at The Gate in 2021/22. Lets not be too greedy too soon, lads. Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, Taxi for Rennie said: LJ has said we will be playing Europa league within the next 5 years and that is all we need to know. Finishing mid-table this season is a price worth paying to be playing euro-footy at The Gate in 2021/22. Lets not be too greedy too soon, lads. Uncle TFR What has changed that these days I keep agreeing with you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 P.S. W&@k spanners on Amazon for £24.99 plus £19.99 delivery. Fully waterproof ones are £79.99. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 minute ago, BigTone said: What has changed that these days I keep agreeing with you ? Everyone does eventually. You can't go on being angry and upset day after day, so it's just easier to agree with me. I've never failed yet. Once I've got LondonBristolian and Collis1 under control I'll have a full set. Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Taxi for Rennie said: Once I've got LondonBristolian and Collis1 under control I'll have a full set. Uncle TFR And I'll be 6 foot under Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, Taxi for Rennie said: P.S. W&@k spanners on Amazon for £24.99 plus £19.99 delivery. Fully waterproof ones are £79.99. Why not get a "pre loved" one on eBay ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, BigTone said: And I'll be 6 foot under Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Taxi for Rennie said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderMB Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 It's not as easy as buying a ton of players. We need time for key players to get accustomed to how we play, and how to play with their team mates. Newcastle is a prime example of this. A team of that calibre should walk this league, and they probably will, but it'll take time for the huge amount of players they've purchased to work as a team. If we have a decent January, building on all of the holes we notice this season, and have as good a summer as we've already had the following season, we might be pushing at the high end of the mid-table group. All of this, of course, hinges on our ability to keep top-quality players, or at the very least sell them for a good sum of money. If Kodjia does go in January or next season, he needs to go for eight figures, with the club able to replace him either like-for-like or an improvement. As of right now, we've definitely improved, but I think it'll take time for the results to flow. We've done well so far, but if we lose to Villa it might take a few games for the players to pick themselves up. I can see us pushing a bit higher this season, but we'll still be near the relegation favourites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 minute ago, BigTone said: Doll's?? Can you give BigTone a flash of something or other, as I don' like where this thread is heading. It's a long time to the Villa game, and I'm not used to this level of overt grooming. Ta. Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I think our results so far have given us a good idea of our level. We're bot top level, but not cannon fodder against them. We're better than the lesser teams but not so good that we thrash them. Somewhere in mid table likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Chairman Mao said: 21st? Yes 15th? Yes 12th? Maybe 9th? No 6th? The order of positions you'd be dissapointed to finish on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 3 hours ago, BigTone said: Imperial or Metric ? Depends on the age of the offending waffly bollock I reckon Tone. Pre 1970 is likely to be imperial, 1970-1980 could be either and post 1980 almost certainly metric. Anything pre 1970 might need a lot more than a spanner to get it working properly and will probably need plenty of lubrication applied by hand to get it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Taxi for Rennie said: Everyone does eventually. You can't go on being angry and upset day after day, so it's just easier to agree with me. I've never failed yet. Once I've got LondonBristolian and Collis1 under control I'll have a full set. Uncle TFR And Horace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 20 minutes ago, NeilS said: Well any club that is as 'big' as ours would hold out hope for a top 6 place, if we clicked no reason at all to think we couldn't achieve that. By 'plenty' of teams who would you think would are nailed on to finnish above us? Newcastle villa norwich brighton derby wednesday fulham ipswich wolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 21 minutes ago, NeilS said: Well any club that is as 'big' as ours would hold out hope for a top 6 place, if we clicked no reason at all to think we couldn't achieve that. By 'plenty' of teams who would you think would are nailed on to finnish above us? Newcastle, Norwich, Brighton, Derby, Sheff Wed, Aston Villa are six teams that we won't finish ahead of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squire Dastardly Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 My feeling is that the squad we already have is not performing at the level I believe them capable of. It's the front players in particular who are underperforming, the likes of Tomlin, Kodjia and Freeman. These players scored goals for us last year but this time round they have not. Too many near misses. This is not lack of ability. Maybe poor tactics maybe lack of confidence. We have had a bizarre set of league fixtures as well. We have not yet had a league match against any side we played last year. All this could change very quickly if we can get a bit of a run together. My op[inion is that the problem is not one to be solved by throwing money at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaceboy Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 16 minutes ago, Squire Dastardly said: My feeling is that the squad we already have is not performing at the level I believe them capable of. It's the front players in particular who are underperforming, the likes of Tomlin, Kodjia and Freeman. These players scored goals for us last year but this time round they have not. Too many near misses. This is not lack of ability. Maybe poor tactics maybe lack of confidence. We have had a bizarre set of league fixtures as well. We have not yet had a league match against any side we played last year. All this could change very quickly if we can get a bit of a run together. My op[inion is that the problem is not one to be solved by throwing money at it. Freeman scored once if my memory serves me right.and tomlin 6 times in 14games.fair enough jimmy isnt scoring yet but he will.agree when u say throwing money at it isnt necessarily the answer.tammy abraham is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 2 hours ago, downendcity said: Anything pre 1970 might need a lot more than a spanner to get it working properly and will probably need plenty of lubrication applied by hand to get it started. DOOOLLLYYY !! I 've found out the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, NeilS said: Well you sound convinced...not that I would argue with that, well not unless I was a defeatist, and that is part of the psyche that shapes Bristol City, I don't think for one minute Leicester City was burdened by such last season? We have a fantastic 'new' stadium, an exciting crop of young exciting talent, with possibly the most gifted strikers in the league, but still we are City, we know our place. Unless you and other dye hard city supporters start actually believing, we will never get to the Prem. It's got nothing to do with if I believe or not. All down to board, manager and players. Glad we are progressing but don't see what fans can do other than support and encourage. What we think privately or on this forum is irrelevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 6 hours ago, Taxi for Rennie said: Doll's?? Can you give BigTone a flash of something or other, as I don' like where this thread is heading. It's a long time to the Villa game, and I'm not used to this level of overt grooming. Ta. Uncle TFR Can't we have a bit of Unk love ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, BigTone said: Can't we have a bit of Unk love ? Piss-off, no. Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 We will find out as season progresses. My feeling is that we are mid-table, but probably not quite play off contenders. We are not a big club at Championship level, don't get parachute millions, so have to be realistic. We look to be taking a long term view, buying younger players with an eye on 1/2 seasons time, which seems sensible and sustainable. Be patient. My Bournemouth supporting friend describes it as sterile football, sterile atmosphere, extortionate prices at some clubs and kick off times endlessly beggared around. No great rush! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 14 hours ago, NeilS said: Well you sound convinced...not that I would argue with that, well not unless I was a defeatist, and that is part of the psyche that shapes Bristol City, I don't think for one minute Leicester City was burdened by such last season? We have a fantastic 'new' stadium, an exciting crop of young exciting talent, with possibly the most gifted strikers in the league, but still we are City, we know our place. Unless you and other dye hard city supporters start actually believing, we will never get to the Prem. You call it defeated t the rest call it realistic we all want to do well get promoted name one fan who doesnt its just we aren't getting carried away we've been there before after the playoffs 10th place then was deemed a failure 3 seasons later people would of bitten your hand off for it we've now got a good core of players but we still don't have strength and depth, if we get injures to Flint o'neil and tammy we will struggle thats why people will be happy with mid-table while continuing to strengthen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 21 hours ago, Taxi for Rennie said: Piss-off, no. Uncle TFR I still love you xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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