The Official Birmingham City v Bristol City Match Day Thread

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

So none in the season I asked about then..

We can't just disregard the issues from last season. It's largely the same group of players and the same manager. It does seem to be a bit of a recurring issue with our side under Johnson.

[Red Ferret]

Pisano looked good 

[BS3rich]

Just now, tinman85 said:

One defeat is one defeat. We have a dire record against them. Big game on Tuesday to see how we react. Baker for me has to start away from home. No nonsense and more of a battler than Hegeler. What it did show when the two wide lads went off was how weak we are in central midfield. Still lacking a driver in there. 

Agreed 100%! 

[tts_city]

1 hour ago, Red Ferret said:

Pisano looked good 

He does, wingers bounce off him and he wont be bullied by anyone, im looking forward to seeing more of him, a good upgrade on little.

[HoldenBall]

Getting sick of odowda coming on and contributing nothing to games. Really struggling to see what he offers.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

28 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

I thought the CM was good

Pack ran his socks off, quality with Korey

Just thought the substitutions didn't pay off as the goal came down our right side - brownhill was solid before he came off 

 

Yes he ran his socks off, but was guilty of some incredibly casual misplaced passes especially in the first half putting us in danger, he switched off in the very first minute of the 2nd half and it nearly cost us a goal, twice he fired a ball into a defender on the edge of the box and whilst was jumping up and down appealing for handball the player took the ball past him setting up counter attacks and once for some bizarre reason he ran from the halfway line trying to chase down a total lost cause, resulting in a quick ball over the top and another breakaway with a missing midfielder which Brownhill and Patterson failed to spot.

As good as he was last week and he was excellent, today this was a BCFC performance akin to far too many of last season and Pack for me was the epitome of that performance.

Pisano and Bryan looked good, Smith was excellent possibly man of the match.

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Esmond Million's Bung

[Robin Goch]

When will O'Dowda actually produce? If he's the next best thing for Ireland then they are literally stuffed for the future. 

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

Did anyone hear about the Donkey business today by any chance?

[BobBobSuperBob]

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

Is that our new CM?

[chinapig]

16 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

One defeat is one defeat. We have a dire record against them. Big game on Tuesday to see how we react. Baker for me has to start away from home. No nonsense and more of a battler than Hegeler. What it did show when the two wide lads went off was how weak we are in central midfield. Still lacking a driver in there. 

Yes, we are too easily overpowered or bypassed. Some power in there would help but no sign LJ thinks so.

Seems to me we have just got used to not picking up points away and I'm not confident we have the wherewithal on or off the pitch to change things.

[daored]

9 hours ago, iamalagerdrinker said:

Be careful if you're traveling up today..

Didn't see anybody in fancy dress in Birmingham today. Maybe his mum didn't let him out.

[Robin Goch]

10 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

I feel sorry for him. You can see his a good player but lack confidence and matchtempo

He's got the traditional winger attributes like speed and agility but he never ever produces. It's been a year now and he should be doing far more than he actually is. Confidence can't be an excuse for much longer.

[tts_city]

1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

I asked about "previous times"- words to that effect - this season.

The answer of which would have been none.

If you're going to be pedantic, get it right.

pedantic

pɪˈdantɪk/

adjective

1. excessively concerned with minor details or rules

    

   thats you that is.

[054123]

I love watching city and had a great time last Saturday and will have a great time Tuesday.

That said even I can see we've made no progress over the last 3 years. It's not doom and gloom it's just stating the obvious.  Now Tammys gone i cant think of one player who would command a place in the starting 11 of a top 3 Championship side. There isn't a single player who would be in a premiership squad. It's quite clear there is no real desire to push on, which is fine.  If Lansdown can balance the books and make our club secure for future generations then that's okay.

Edited August 12, 2017 by 054123
Can't stop the feeling.

[Major Isewater]

1 minute ago, 054123 said:

I love watching city and had a great time last Saturday and will have a great time Tuesday.

That said even I can see we've made no progress over the last 3 years. It's not soon and gloom it's just staying the obvious.  Now Tammys gone u can think of one player who would command a place in the starting 11 of a top 3 Championship side. There isn't a single player who would be in a premiership squad. It's quite clear there is no real desire to push on, which is fine.  If Lansdown can balance the books and make our club secure for future generations then that's okay.

You are the proud recipient of my first ' rubbish ' comment .

 

[054123]

Just now, Major Isewater said:

You are the proud recipient of my first ' rubbish ' comment .

 

Thanks.

I personally like the idea of a financially club. Its an admirable goal to aspire to.

[Major Isewater]

2 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Thanks.

I personally like the idea of a financially club. Its an admirable goal to aspire to.

You're very welcome . Have a ' like '

[054123]

Just now, Major Isewater said:

You're very welcome . Have a ' like '

You can have a snake.

I genuinely don't know why it's there's or what it represents.

[BCFC Rich]

Honestly, we are two games into the season. If we had won to day it would be ridiculous to over optimistic. We lost it's disappointing but the season has hardly started. It's a bit early to big us up or write us off. You need at least 5/6 games to have any idea how things are going and really at least 10. 

[054123]

2 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

This thread reminds me of last season.

The difference is I'm not angry anymore as I have accepted things for what they are.

It's a happier place 

[Lack of Action Man]

It's always disappointing to give away a lead but it's not like this is a new problem - we threw away many points last season because we couldn't hold a lead. 

[Major Isewater]

We are like a novice dog owner , can't hold a lead .

[Northern Red]

Seems O'Dowda has claimed the position recently vacated by Mark Little having fought off competition from Frankie Fielding and Joe Bryan. 

[Major Isewater]

2 minutes ago, 054123 said:

The difference is I'm not angry anymore as I have accepted things for what they are.

It's a happier place 

Drugs are  just great ,aren't they ?

[054123]

Just now, Major Isewater said:

Drugs are  just great ,aren't they ?

They have their place.

Making peace with life helps as well. I just don't honestly see how we're that much better than at any other point since our return to the Championship. I'm not angry about it, it's just how I feel.

[maxjak]

2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

You are the proud recipient of my first ' rubbish ' comment .

 

I think 054123 has a point...........it's a little glib to call it rubbish?    We have yet again dominated a game and taken the lead, but are unable to manage the game and take at least a point against a side who will do well to finish in the top 15.  We have a distinct lack of game changers now Tammy has departed, 2,000 fans have taken the time and trouble to support us, but we do not have the the wherewithal to produce a good enough performance to come away with a result against a very, very average side.  Bobby Reid flatters to deceive, and is not the answer to our long term scoring problems.  very disappointing...........but then again whats new?   Still it's early days, but we still need a reliable goal poacher if we are to finish anywhere near the play offs. We are most definitely a work in progress, who will not get relegated, but are miles away from the top six.  Mid table anonymity is our present destiny.

[jayjay]

We've got a Head Coach for the training, Johnson. We are told that he is a top young coach, I leave that for others to decide. So leave him on the training ground to coach.

Now get an experienced Team Manager to run the team and decide on tactics before and during games. Pop the Head Coach in the stands to take notes.

At present, it seems to me that Mr Johnson, surrounded by even less experienced assistants, is out manoeuvred in games by experienced managers and does not appear to learn any lessons. At this level, almost all the managers are experienced.

[Top Robin]

I hate saying this but in a perverse way it's probably not a bad thing that we lost this one.........it will give LJ the opportunity to address the problems and introduce changes whilst the transfer window is still open and before the season starts getting too serious. We are still sitting in a pretty good position after two games.

[jayjay]

City have just purchased another winger or wide man and Johnson's substitutions today were to bring on wingers. We seem to have abundance of wide players, to the point where they can barely be accommodated within the 18 man squad. I thought wingers liked wide pitches but Mr Johnson has had AG reduced in width. I am sure brighter posters than me will enlighten me as to the Baldrick like strategy involved.

[Squire Dastardly]

60% possession and playing with a one man advantage for the final 10 minutes and we lose 2-1. 

In the first half a more controlled approach would have given us at least a 2 goal lead. 16 shots on goal only 3 on target!

We went at it like a bull at a gate. A first minute goal encouraged this approach and much good lead up play led to no reward.

Birmingham showed how to win a result even when you are up against it. Harry calmed them down at HT and patiently they wore us down like a good boxer that gets up off the canvas and wins on points. 

We should learn a hard lesson and remember we are not playing Manor Farm or even Plymouth or Barnsley every week.

[Phileas Fogg]

9 minutes ago, jayjay said:

City have just purchased another winger or wide man and Johnson's substitutions today were to bring on wingers. We seem to have abundance of wide players, to the point where they can barely be accommodated within the 18 man squad. I thought wingers liked wide pitches but Mr Johnson has had AG reduced in width. I am sure brighter posters than me will enlighten me as to the Baldrick like strategy involved.

We've got 2 wingers. Brownhill and Paterson aren't strictly wingers but midfielders who can play wide. We don't really have that many at all.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Phileas Fogg

[Rossi the Robin]

One thing different to last year is we are out of the traps so much quicker

Lots of positives today-  I'm sure we will be a much better side this season

 

[Red Ferret]

You can see the style of football we are trying to play in attack, one/two touches in triangles in the middle, along with a fast pressing game in defence . I think it's all really encouraging. chill everyone 

[BigTone]

Anybody who has read my posts in other threads will see I sit in the Johnson Out camp.  However, after 2 games into the new season it is far too early to see where we are heading. My point being lets give LJ a bit of time and re visit the issue after say 10 games. At the end of the day I just want to see City achieve some success as I have no doubt you all do also.

[Desso]

2 hours ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

Rovers bottom of the league is a consolation 

Rovers are in division one not division two.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Anybody who has read my posts in other threads will see I sit in the Johnson Out camp.  However, after 2 games into the new season it is far too early to see where we are heading. My point being lets give LJ a bit of time and re visit the issue after say 10 games. At the end of the day I just want to see City achieve some success as I have no doubt you all do also.

I think most of us are in that camp although some people tend to blame Johnson/specific players instead of allowing the manager to have a go with the team. You CANNOT judge anything by 1 win and 1 loss (away at a bogey team I might add) in the league

[Robin Ashton]

Too much donkey business...

[Guest GIBBO THE GREAT]

3 hours ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Why didn't he put Hinds on, the boy is confident after that great goal against Plymouth. 5 mins added,

Johnson Out

[One BCFC]

I was there today. What I saw from the game was one team playing trying to play Football for 90 minutes and the other just about holding on playing a brand of long ball.
Lots of positives to take, on another day it would have been 4-2 to City. We will do better than last season I am sure of that, we never do well at Birmingham.

[AppyDAZE]

2 minutes ago, BA14 RED said:

I was there today. What I saw from the game was one team playing trying to play Football for 90 minutes and the other just about holding on playing a brand of long ball.
Lots of positives to take, on another day it would have been 4-2 to City. We will do better than last season I am sure of that, we never do well at Birmingham.

...or away from home in general. Needs sorting, preferably on Tuesday.

[Gert Mare]

What concerns me is the inability to counteract an experienced manager's change in formation. It is something that Lee has to learn from. We are a better more balanced team than we were last year. It's one game. Let's judge after the team has had a chance to gel.

[old_eastender]

59 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

What concerns me is the inability to counteract an experienced manager's change in formation. It is something that Lee has to learn from. We are a better more balanced team than we were last year. It's one game. Let's judge after the team has had a chance to gel.

Me too. Aside from not owning up to making the wrong call in taking Brownhill off, LJ's analysis of the game on RB was spot-on. Trouble is it's no good being able to tell us what went wrong AFTER the game, he just doesn't seem to be able to get the message out (or make the right subs) during the game to correct things.

[Sniper]

3 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said:

What concerns me is the inability to counteract an experienced manager's change in formation. It is something that Lee has to learn from. We are a better more balanced team than we were last year. It's one game. Let's judge after the team has had a chance to gel.

Couldn't agree more. LJ always seems to get outwitted by the wily old foxes like Harry and Warnock. With all this sniffing around Flint and Bryan, sticking his beak in and trying to sign this Luton lad Vassell, and Birmingham beating us yesterday after tearing them a new one in the first half, Harry is the new Warnock for me, bloody hate the bloke now  

[cidered abroad]

16 hours ago, Top Robin said:

I hate saying this but in a perverse way it's probably not a bad thing that we lost this one.........it will give LJ the opportunity to address the problems and introduce changes whilst the transfer window is still open and before the season starts getting too serious. We are still sitting in a pretty good position after two games.

To sign another ten or twelve like last summer.

We're sitting pretty after two games? Three points above the relegation zone!

We have just lost another game from a leading position. What's different?

There is a lot of tongue in cheek in these comments but to say we're sitting pretty is just burying one's head in the sand.

What will Tuesday evening bring? More of the same? Or actually start hanging on to points and don't start the Christmas Club in August.

Edited August 13, 2017 by cidered abroad

[Gert Mare]

3 hours ago, glos old boy said:

Ok first you say we are better than we were last year, then closely follow it by saying its only one game  

The last bit "chance to gel" is really just an excuse after a loss, a bit like "fine lines" both of which goes for every team really and the bottom line is, as said before and was said by LJ is "we are not as good as we thought we were" presumably relating to the fact that we seem to run out of energy after a lot of running/passing.

Maybe the pre-season should have been against better teams to get us up to speed more? yet I seem to remember LJ saying also we are ready at the start of the season, when it seems we aren't....yet.

I believe that we are a better team that we were last year. We have made signings and we are not heavily reliant on Tammy to score goals. We are scoring goals all over the pitch which can only be a good thing. 

We lost to Birmingham because unlike our previous 2 games we failed to make our chances count. We could have had a comfortable lead by half time yesterday but we didn't take the chances and as soon as Harry was able to get his team into the dressing room he was able to restructure and nullify our threat in the second half. 

More couldn't work out how to counteract Harry's change in formation and threw on the wingers in a desperate attempt to get back into the game. Taking off Brownhill was a mistake. He will learn in time how to deal with it, but for now when he comes up against a Harry or a Warnock they know how to tactically pick apart our threat.

[CliftonCliff]

29 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

 

More couldn't work out how to counteract Harry's change in formation and threw on the wingers in a desperate attempt to get back into the game. Taking off Brownhill was a mistake. He will learn in time how to deal with it, but for now when he comes up against a Harry or a Warnock they know how to tactically pick apart our threat.

People would do well to remember that the two managers you mention are as near as dammit to double LJ's age and have been in the game all their working lives. Older hands than Lee have been outmanoeuvred by Harry and Colin and there is a reason the former was once a strong candidate for the England job. It's frustrating to lose a game we should have taken something from, but    both players and coach are still learning. One can envy the canny ways of a Redknapp or a Warnock, but I'm not sure I'd want a 70 year-old in charge at AG.

[Gert Mare]

8 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

People would do well to remember that the two managers you mention are as near as dammit to double LJ's age and have been in the game all their working lives. Older hands than Lee have been outmanoeuvred by Harry and Colin and there is a reason the former was once a strong candidate for the England job. It's frustrating to lose a game we should have taken something from, but    both players and coach are still learning. One can envy the canny ways of a Redknapp or a Warnock, but I'm not sure I'd want a 70 year-old in charge at AG.

That's correct. Lee needs to learn how to counteract. He will learn. Personally, I only care about City being the best that they can be whether that is with a 30 something year old or a 70 year old manager. I guarantee if we went down and Birmingham finished mid to top half of the table then we'd be wishing we had Harry or Warnock in charge.

[Phileas Fogg]

22 hours ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

I think most of us are in that camp

Don't think that's true. Impression I get is that most are willing to give him and the team a chance. A bad run like last season though and that'll quickly change.

 

[...]

7 hours ago, Sniper said:

Couldn't agree more. LJ always seems to get outwitted by the wily old foxes like Harry and Warnock. With all this sniffing around Flint and Bryan, sticking his beak in and trying to sign this Luton lad Vassell, and Birmingham beating us yesterday after tearing them a new one in the first half, Harry is the new Warnock for me, bloody hate the bloke now  

Being outwitted by two of the most canny and seasoned managers currently working is no disgrace in itself.

LJ has only been a manager for a few years, and is a total 'pup' in that regard.

What bothers me is the constant shyte-talking, and the level of resources he consumes. No other manager in our history has had so much backing from the Chair, and so much money to spend.

Sooner or later there needs to be results.

I remain optimistic until proven wrong .................

 

tfj

Edited August 13, 2017 by Taxi for Johnson

[Guest john shaw number 1]

Read Lee has been a manager for 220 league games , Oldham, Barnsley and City so he should know the game by now, He is City's manager so will support him but I feel that a young manager who is learning is overdone, everyone makes mistakes and hopefully this season he has sorted his out, everyone seams happy with middle of the table finish this season, let's hope so.

[CliftonCliff]

3 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said:

That's correct. Lee needs to learn how to counteract. He will learn. Personally, I only care about City being the best that they can be whether that is with a 30 something year old or a 70 year old manager. I guarantee if we went down and Birmingham finished mid to top half of the table then we'd be wishing we had Harry or Warnock in charge.

Fair enough and point taken, but I suppose what I'm trying to say is you can be young or experienced, but you can't be both. Or to put it another way., how tactically astute were Harry and Colin at 36 (or whatever age LJ currently is)? Were they even in management at that age, for that matter? (You could add to that another question, too - what would they cost you at today's salaries?)

If you want stability, continuity and long-term development, you can hardly appoint an old man of seventy. Even Ferguson couldn't maintain it much beyond that age. And if you invest in youth, you must be prepared for uneven progress. You can't have it all ways (though that won't stop OTIB members demanding precisely that).

 

 

[Gert Mare]

12 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

Fair enough and point taken, but I suppose what I'm trying to say is you can be young or experienced, but you can't be both. Or to put it another way., how tactically astute were Harry and Colin at 36 (or whatever age LJ currently is)? Were they even in management at that age, for that matter? (You could add to that another question, too - what would they cost you at today's salaries?)

If you want stability, continuity and long-term development, you can hardly appoint an old man of seventy. Even Ferguson couldn't maintain it much beyond that age. And if you invest in youth, you must be prepared for uneven progress. You can't have it all ways (though that won't stop OTIB members demanding precisely that).

 

 

Yep. Agreed, which is why implosion after a couple of games of the season is ridiculous. Come November/December time if it is all going Pete Tong then have a dog then. Had we taken our chances yesterday we would have won the game. You can't win em all!

[Gert Mare]

16 hours ago, glos old boy said:

I normally agree with most of what you say but; we made loads of signings last year and we have lost exp players this season; you could say the backbone/heart of the team, Wilbs will be a big miss off and on the pitch, Flinty seems to be the devil incarnate, Tomlin is the devil, add that to Taylor/Đurić mystery groin injuries (through training?) and Engval (not needed sent elsewhere) and of course Tammy

I believe we are now more light weight now and is it really a good plan to play Hegs in the defence, as from what I`ve seen tends to wander more into the midfield? I saw Brum as our first real test there will be many tougher away games, this league is not forgiving at all and we and our manager need to wise up a bit  more and quick.

We survived a relegation dog fight last year. A lot of that squad is still at Ashton Gate and now just that little bit more experienced. From what I have seen so far we are far more attacking now rather than rabbits in headlights, but what we do need to do is to be able to bounce back from going behind and if we can do that and win then I really think that we will be ok this season and easily finish mid table if not slightly higher.

[havanatopia]

 

On 8/14/2017 at 00:52, Phileas Fogg said:

Don't think that's true. Impression I get is that most are willing to give him and the team a chance. A bad run like last season though and that'll quickly change.

 

Regarding most of us are in the 'Johnson out camp' ~ I think the guy you were responding to was suggesting 'we are indeed mostly in that camp, feel it in our gut, but we are of course gonna give the guy the benefit of the doubt for a while. 

I think a lot of people though have noticed he has already started to make some similar tactical errors that he did last season. 

If we assume that he has less nous than the average more experienced manager in this division but add in that we are the 7th highest spenders, lady luck, stupid sackings, clueless foreign managers then we should probably finish about 14th. I forgot learning on the job so assuming he does continue to show improvement maybe 10th. Would you all settle for that right now?

Edited August 15, 2017 by havanatopia

[cidered abroad]

4 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

 

Regarding most of us are in the 'Johnson out camp' ~ I think the guy you were responding to was suggesting 'we are indeed mostly in that camp, feel it in our gut, but we are of course gonna give the guy the benefit of the doubt for a while. 

I think a lot of people though have noticed he has already started to make some similar tactical errors that he did last season. 

If we assume that he has less nous than the average more experienced manager in this division but add in that we are the 7th highest spenders, lady luck, stupid sackings, clueless foreign managers then we should probably finish about 14th. I forgot learning on the job so assuming he does continue to show improvement maybe 10th. Would you all settle for that right now?

IMO, the problem is that all three of the coaching staff are rookies at managing games at this level. To change two midfielders for two wingers at the same time smacks of inexperience to me. We should have gone for a point at 1-1 and not gung ho for three. By doing the cautious route, it's still possible to snatch a win on the break.

The odd goal defeats syndrome must be stopped immediately.