Ashton gate halt and the Portishead rail line (Merged)

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Ill still believe it until i see contractors turn up. I remember Sainsburys in town was delayed for ages until they re-homed a few newts !

Hopefully, nowhere near the railway line

[Lanterne Rouge]

7 hours ago, RedRock said:

…and from what I’ve heard the Oakhampton Line has been a real success.

It has. Trains are full most of the time and it`s standing room only at rush hour. The tickets are far cheaper than driving & parking in Exeter (parking charges in Exeter are eye-watering these days). There are loads of people who live in Okehampton and work in Exeter that used to drive and use the Marsh Barton park & ride but get the train now as it goes on to Central from St Davids. They`ve just increased the frequency to hourly as well.

[TonyTonyTony]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

Firstly Grant Shapps needs to give the DCO the full go ahead as it’s currently minded to approve.  So NSC as the lead of that will have to submit usual documents by 30th Nov at latest and then final decision is due before 19th Feb 2023. However these are just formal deadlines so things could move a lot quicker.. NSC need to get everything under the nose of the new SoS for Transport after recess

So that’s a no then.

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 minutes ago, TomF said:

Need to just extend it all the way to Plymouth again.. shame the Meldon Viaduct is knackered.. 

it`s more that so much of the former track bed and buildings are in private hands. Rob Bell went into it when he did one of his `Walking Britain`s Lost Railways` programmes on the line.

The better option would be a new line from Okehampton to Launceston and then down to Plymouth via Tavistock I reckon- most of the old line is still there as bridleways/footpaths and stuff.

[TonyTonyTony]

23 minutes ago, TomF said:

It’s minded to approve already providing the extra funding can be found. Which it has. So even Shapps can’t **** this one up… well if he’s still in charge come Sept

The other interesting thing is it states DfT are taking on the client role meaning, I think, they would pick up any further cost and not the regional authorities so they probably will be minded to push it through as quick as possible..  

I’ll keep my fingers crossed. Can’t say I’m looking forward to the disruption getting home but looking forward to the house price spike !

[BTRFTG]

Can't move for train lines near me.

Pointless when there's no sod willing to drive, guard, staff, maintain trains regularly on them. If public purse is to underwrite any investment then it needs a quid pro quo from those that staff the railways. Sweet FA chance that will happen anytime soon.

[t_b]

Ditching the Portishead station is in line with the approaches being taken for ticketless trains etc. For an end of line station, it really wouldn’t be needed. 
There’ll still be options for any coffee etc concession to be housed in a pop up function (loads of shipping containers going to be going spare down harbourside soon….).

But would removal of station building enable the platform itself to run on the existing track alignment? It’s double tracked as it edges to Quays Avenue so surely space for a basic platform to be put up? Saves them a fortune in not realigning the existing roads as well then.

Car parking surely is a requirement for Portishead to reduce stress on adjacent residential streets. And brings in revenue. 
 

[Monkeh]

3 hours ago, TomF said:

Need to just extend it all the way to Plymouth again.. shame the Meldon Viaduct is knackered.. 

They will at some point, as a viable alternate route if the Dawlish sea defense fails again

[pillred]

2 hours ago, tommy_b said:

Ditching the Portishead station is in line with the approaches being taken for ticketless trains etc. For an end of line station, it really wouldn’t be needed. 
There’ll still be options for any coffee etc concession to be housed in a pop up function (loads of shipping containers going to be going spare down harbourside soon….).

But would removal of station building enable the platform itself to run on the existing track alignment? It’s double tracked as it edges to Quays Avenue so surely space for a basic platform to be put up? Saves them a fortune in not realigning the existing roads as well then.

Car parking surely is a requirement for Portishead to reduce stress on adjacent residential streets. And brings in revenue. 
 

So it costs £5 return on the train plus let's say £3 to park in Portishead or Pill per day, or £5 on the bus which takes you to several very convenient stops for work and shopping or pleasure trips such as drinking and eating around the waterfront that the train won't get anywhere near, ooh! let me think what shall I do? and don't forget that the bus is free during the day for anyone over 65, to me this will be a mini white Elephant I mean there is not even going to be a place for us to get off to watch city, I'm sorry but I'm struggling to see where the customers are going to come from to justify the expence and I haven't even mentioned WFH. 

[Port Said Red]

7 minutes ago, pillred said:

So it costs £5 return on the train plus let's say £3 to park in Portishead or Pill per day, or £5 on the bus which takes you to several very convenient stops for work and shopping or pleasure trips such as drinking and eating around the waterfront that the train won't get anywhere near, ooh! let me think what shall I do? and don't forget that the bus is free during the day for anyone over 65, to me this will be a mini white Elephant I mean there is not even going to be a place for us to get off to watch city, I'm sorry but I'm struggling to see where the customers are going to come from to justify the expence and I haven't even mentioned WFH. 

OK I will start with, the station is walking distance for me and thousands of others in Portishead, I don't know where the station is in Pill, but it's a small place so it's hardly going to be miles away from everybody.

The same the other end, it's no easier to get to the waterfront by foot (or even e-scooter) from Temple Meads than it is to drive and park anywhere around there.

As far as I know the bus is free to Bristol residents during the day, it's not free to me as a North Somerset resident until I hit SPA. 

The only thing I agree with is the Ashton Gate stop, especially when the conference centre and housing is built the clamour for it will make it inevitable, probably too late for me personally, but that's life.

[Lanterne Rouge]

7 hours ago, Monkeh said:

They will at some point, as a viable alternate route if the Dawlish sea defense fails again

You think so? I`m more inclined to think they`ll go for an inland route bypassing Dawlish but you know a lot more about these things.

[Monkeh]

7 hours ago, pillred said:

So it costs £5 return on the train plus let's say £3 to park in Portishead or Pill per day, or £5 on the bus which takes you to several very convenient stops for work and shopping or pleasure trips such as drinking and eating around the waterfront that the train won't get anywhere near, ooh! let me think what shall I do? and don't forget that the bus is free during the day for anyone over 65, to me this will be a mini white Elephant I mean there is not even going to be a place for us to get off to watch city, I'm sorry but I'm struggling to see where the customers are going to come from to justify the expence and I haven't even mentioned WFH. 

The bus hasn't cost 5 quid for a return for 10 years and a return from nailsea to Bristol is 5.20

[pillred]

10 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

OK I will start with, the station is walking distance for me and thousands of others in Portishead, I don't know where the station is in Pill, but it's a small place so it's hardly going to be miles away from everybody.

The same the other end, it's no easier to get to the waterfront by foot (or even e-scooter) from Temple Meads than it is to drive and park anywhere around there.

As far as I know the bus is free to Bristol residents during the day, it's not free to me as a North Somerset resident until I hit SPA. 

The only thing I agree with is the Ashton Gate stop, especially when the conference centre and housing is built the clamour for it will make it inevitable, probably too late for me personally, but that's life.

95% of the people that would use it at your end will be from Portishead but Pill is different, we will have people driving from Portbury, Abbotts Liegh, and even Easton in Gordano into the village looking to park, if they charge people to park in the station car park they will either not bother using the train, or will look to park in all the small residential streets that surround the station, the train does not stop at a convenient place for leasure or shopping in Bristol so I see it being practically empty outside of normal commuting times, we will see what happens if it goes ahead as I have said personally I think it will turn out to be a white elephant just like HS2 but we will just have to wait and see. It could become a tourist attraction I suppose with the scenic views of the gorge and suspension bridge.

Edited July 30, 2022 by pillred
Spelling

[TonyTonyTony]

On 30/07/2022 at 11:11, TomF said:

 

Looking at the design, it doesn't really cut across much of the road, its more that the land for a car park is required. 

That the car park comes out on the main road into the village quarter thou.. as if that wasn't already a massive clusterf*ck most of the time. 

So the current Roundabout into the VQ disappears and moved down to the health centre. That’s major reconstruction. As you say this area is a mess with cars parking on the road outside the health centre. They have to get the design right or it will be a nightmare

Phoenix way school run time is a basket case and this will make it worse I reckon

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

You can blame blame the poor foresight of the road cutting across the original railway and Network Rail refusing a crossing.  But yeah that’s the final design for the station location. 

Just about to post the same Tom. That change of mind over the crossing was crazy: there’d have been plenty of room for the station and adjoining parking had the allowed the original crossing. 

Although I guess the crossing would have been a pain once an hour when it closed the road. Yesterday we made a great getaway from the ground after the game at Hull. Until about a mile from the ground where there was rail crossing. And guess what….on the day of a rail strike, just about the only train all day came just in time to hold us up, 

[Never to the dark side]

https://news.gwr.com/news/gwr-to-launch-new-pay-as-you-go-smartcard-for-wider-bristol-area

[East End Old Boy]

On 31/07/2022 at 21:49, TonyTonyTony said:

So the current Roundabout into the VQ disappears and moved down to the health centre. That’s major reconstruction. As you say this area is a mess with cars parking on the road outside the health centre. They have to get the design right or it will be a nightmare

Phoenix way school run time is a basket case and this will make it worse I reckon

You say the roundabout disappears, but the Quays Avenue/Phoenix Way roundabout looks the same to me, unless I’m missing something!

[GreedyHarry]

On 31/07/2022 at 22:02, TomF said:

You can blame blame the poor foresight of the road cutting across the original railway and Network Rail refusing a crossing.  But yeah that’s the final design for the station location. 

Policy which is backed by the ORR is no new crossings, so would need a road overbridge, and that would add hugely to the costs. I agree in the poor foresight of the developers and council though. 

[TonyTonyTony]

52 minutes ago, East End Old Boy said:

You say the roundabout disappears, but the Quays Avenue/Phoenix Way roundabout looks the same to me, unless I’m missing something!

Looks like it’s moved left (as you drive in) up to the health centre so quite a big change

[italian dave]

17 minutes ago, GreedyHarry said:

Policy which is backed by the ORR is no new crossings, so would need a road overbridge, and that would add hugely to the costs. I agree in the poor foresight of the developers and council though. 

The problem is that when it was being developed and planned the regulations around crossings was different, and it would have been permitted. It was only after the development completed and there had been endless delays over the railway that the regulations introduced an absolute ban on new crossings. 

[East End Old Boy]

1 hour ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Looks like it’s moved left (as you drive in) up to the health centre so quite a big change

Yep, I get it now, so the location of the car park will cover part of the existing roundabout.

[TonyTonyTony]

7 minutes ago, East End Old Boy said:

Yep, I get it now, so the location of the car park will cover part of the existing roundabout.

That’s what it looks like to me anyway.

[Port Said Red]

4 hours ago, East End Old Boy said:

You say the roundabout disappears, but the Quays Avenue/Phoenix Way roundabout looks the same to me, unless I’m missing something!

No that's where the car park is, the roundabout in that plan will be outside the Harbourside Doctors surgery Sorry I see others have answered.

The only issue I can see is that it will increase the amount of traffic around the estate with people living in Phoenix way at the station end having to drive down to Newfoundland Rd and come out by the Majestics building.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Port Said Red

[Never to the dark side]

Just to clarify,over Network rails dead body,

will there be another railway level crossing installed in the U.K.

[italian dave]

36 minutes ago, Never to the dark side said:

Just to clarify,over Network rails dead body,

will there be another railway level crossing installed in the U.K.

And yet, as a result, people will be forced to cross a busy road close to a roundabout in order to get from one of the car parks to the railway station.

Far greater risk of an accident than from a crossing, I suspect. 

[East End Old Boy]

9 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

No that's where the car park is, the roundabout in that plan will be outside the Harbourside Doctors surgery Sorry I see others have answered.

The only issue I can see is that it will increase the amount of traffic around the estate with people living in Phoenix way at the station end having to drive down to Newfoundland Rd and come out by the Majestics building.

Yep, agree roundabout moves, see exchanges above.

Although, why the need for people living on Phoenix Way to detour, as it’s still two way traffic and a three entry/exit roundabout?

[Monkeh]

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

And yet, as a result, people will be forced to cross a busy road close to a roundabout in order to get from one of the car parks to the railway station.

Far greater risk of an accident than from a crossing, I suspect. 

You can survive being hit by a car, you can't being hit by a train

[Port Said Red]

2 hours ago, East End Old Boy said:

Yep, agree roundabout moves, see exchanges above.

Although, why the need for people living on Phoenix Way to detour, as it’s still two way traffic and a three entry/exit roundabout?

Yes sorry you are right, that diarama makes it look like that is all carpark in the top right, but now I can see that they will just have a straight run through onto Harbour Rd.

Thank you.

[archie andrews]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

You can survive being hit by a car, you can't being hit by a train

Yeah... But how fast will the train be goin if its say pulling in or out of the station? 

[Monkeh]

24 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

Yeah... But how fast will the train be goin if its say pulling in or out of the station? 

A train could kill you going as slow as 3 mph

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

You can survive being hit by a car, you can't being hit by a train

Of course. But that's not the sole factor in assessing the risks.

Given the choice of walking blindfold across the Bristol to Exeter railway line or the M5 I know which I'd go for. 

In this instance the crossing would have been metres from the station so the speeds and stopping distances would have been very low. And the crossing would have been surrounded with the whole panoply of security and safety devices that accompany crossings.

The safety and security precautions for pedestrians crossing the road will be nowhere near as good.

 

[Monkeh]

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

Of course. But that's not the sole factor in assessing the risks.

Given the choice of walking blindfold across the Bristol to Exeter railway line or the M5 I know which I'd go for. 

In this instance the crossing would have been metres from the station so the speeds and stopping distances would have been very low. And the crossing would have been surrounded with the whole panoply of security and safety devices that accompany crossings.

The safety and security precautions for pedestrians crossing the road will be nowhere near as good.

 

I can find the stopping distance if you like,  i know its a kile and a quarter for a train going at 125mph,

I would imagine at the crossing if one were there the limited would be 20mph, I think the current line speed is only 40mph

but it won't reverse nwr or orr policy,

 

[GreedyHarry]

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

Of course. But that's not the sole factor in assessing the risks.

Given the choice of walking blindfold across the Bristol to Exeter railway line or the M5 I know which I'd go for. 

In this instance the crossing would have been metres from the station so the speeds and stopping distances would have been very low. And the crossing would have been surrounded with the whole panoply of security and safety devices that accompany crossings.

The safety and security precautions for pedestrians crossing the road will be nowhere near as good.

 

I don’t disagree with you, but the railway isn’t concerned with the risk of a pedestrian crossing the road. To be blunt it’s none of its business. They are however concerned with a pedestrian or vehicle misusing a level crossing and the consequences of that. So with that very narrow view, better to have no area where trains and vehicles/pedestrians can conflict and therefore no level crossing.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

I can find the stopping distance if you like,  i know its a kile and a quarter for a train going at 125mph,

I would imagine at the crossing if one were there the limited would be 20mph, I think the current line speed is only 40mph

but it won't reverse nwr or orr policy,

 

On the original design the crossing was no more than 50 metres from the station. I cant imagine any train would be doing more than about 5mph that close to a terminus.

But I agree - its all hypothetical and I know the policy won't be reversed - the Portishead Railway Group went all through that and did try!

[italian dave]

45 minutes ago, GreedyHarry said:

I don’t disagree with you, but the railway isn’t concerned with the risk of a pedestrian crossing the road. To be blunt it’s none of its business. They are however concerned with a pedestrian or vehicle misusing a level crossing and the consequences of that. So with that very narrow view, better to have no area where trains and vehicles/pedestrians can conflict and therefore no level crossing.

Oh I completely agree. Its debateable whether that's a sensible approach overall, but I absolutely get that's why Network rail won't entertain the notion. 

All I'm saying is that, bigger picture, it creates a scenario where vehicles and pedestrians come into conflict and that wouldn't have happened if the station had been adjacent to the car park.

[Monkeh]

21 minutes ago, italian dave said:

On the original design the crossing was no more than 50 metres from the station. I cant imagine any train would be doing more than about 5mph that close to a terminus.

But I agree - its all hypothetical and I know the policy won't be reversed - the Portishead Railway Group went all through that and did try!

Yea, but we in the industry are quite risk adverse at the moment, 

I've never really agreed with the total ban on crossing installation, as the vast majority of accidents around this piece of infrastructure is around crossing misuse

[winsaw]

Latest on the Portishead rail link,

North Somerset council are saying they hope to have the line open by the end of 2026 after North Somerset council and west of England combined authority both agreed to put in 10 million extra each to cover extra costs after the DFT agreed to put an extra 15 million in and agreed to cover any extra costs as a result of inflation, 

This brings the current cost of reopening the line to 159 million,

The DFT have now said they are considering the business case for the line and hope to announce the go ahead on 19/2/23

The latest cost savings have seen capacity reduced on the line, the new station at Portishead will now only be 3 coaches long not the 5 previous planed, a 140 seats less per train in the peak 

And also there will be no building on the station not even a bus shelter to give cover when waiting for a train, 

The plan for Pill to be the only intermittent station in the line is unchanged

So some good and some bad news 

[frenchred]

43 minutes ago, winsaw said:

Latest on the Portishead rail link,

North Somerset council are saying they hope to have the line open by the end of 2026 after North Somerset council and west of England combined authority both agreed to put in 10 million extra each to cover extra costs after the DFT agreed to put an extra 15 million in and agreed to cover any extra costs as a result of inflation, 

This brings the current cost of reopening the line to 159 million,

The DFT have now said they are considering the business case for the line and hope to announce the go ahead on 19/2/23

The latest cost savings have seen capacity reduced on the line, the new station at Portishead will now only be 3 coaches long not the 5 previous planed, a 140 seats less per train in the peak 

And also there will be no building on the station not even a bus shelter to give cover when waiting for a train, 

The plan for Pill to be the only intermittent station in the line is unchanged

So some good and some bad news 

it’s just a half hearted, half baked, expensive scheme that has been watered down so much it’s pretty irrelevant now. if i understand correctly, 3 carriages instead of 5, one train an hour, 30mph max speed, and if it’s pissing down with rain don’t expect a shelter! it’s 2022 ffs! It’s now embarrassing.

why not a fully functioning light railway or tram system. other cities do it!

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

it’s just a half hearted, half baked, expensive scheme that has been watered down so much it’s pretty irrelevant now. if i understand correctly, 3 carriages instead of 5, one train an hour, 30mph max speed, and if it’s pissing down with rain don’t expect a shelter! it’s 2022 ffs! It’s now embarrassing.

why not a fully functioning light railway or tram system. other cities do it!

Does it really surprise you?

I remember reading a comment by someone on the reason Ashton Gate station wouldn't go ahead.
Too busy on Saturdays and not busy enough during the week. 
That line and the Portishead line would be ideal for a Tram system like around Man City's ground surely.

[Monkeh]

52 minutes ago, winsaw said:

Latest on the Portishead rail link,

North Somerset council are saying they hope to have the line open by the end of 2026 after North Somerset council and west of England combined authority both agreed to put in 10 million extra each to cover extra costs after the DFT agreed to put an extra 15 million in and agreed to cover any extra costs as a result of inflation, 

This brings the current cost of reopening the line to 159 million,

The DFT have now said they are considering the business case for the line and hope to announce the go ahead on 19/2/23

The latest cost savings have seen capacity reduced on the line, the new station at Portishead will now only be 3 coaches long not the 5 previous planed, a 140 seats less per train in the peak 

And also there will be no building on the station not even a bus shelter to give cover when waiting for a train, 

The plan for Pill to be the only intermittent station in the line is unchanged

So some good and some bad news 

All the stuff taken out can be added at a later date, the important thing is getting trains running

[pillred]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

This just sounds a rehash of the news from a month ago. The date of 19/2/23 is the end of the 6 month extension for a decision to be made. They don’t need to wait till then 

That's because the way inflation is at the moment the cost will have risen so much it will give them the perfect excuse to drop the whole project siting unaffordability. 

[archie andrews]

like i said earlier if this was germany or japan it would be built by now.....effing get on with it

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

The project is under the DfT and now cover additional costs 

You know the best way to make the Portishead line happen and a decision made earlier? For Liam Fox to resign. That would focus top Tory minds very quickly and before you can say “by-election defeat”, it would be given the green light. Then Fox could lap up the local plaudits and improve his chance of getting re-elected. He’s been an MP for 30 years, so he’s well past the point of getting a full MP’s pension (20 years as an MP if you would like to know) anyway, so losing and retiring gracefully wouldn’t be that bad an option either.

But he doesn’t like his constituents that much, so he won’t!

[East End Old Boy]

9 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

You know the best way to make the Portishead line happen and a decision made earlier? For Liam Fox to resign. That would focus top Tory minds very quickly and before you can say “by-election defeat”, it would be given the green light. Then Fox could lap up the local plaudits and improve his chance of getting re-elected. He’s been an MP for 30 years, so he’s well past the point of getting a full MP’s pension (20 years as an MP if you would like to know) anyway, so losing and retiring gracefully wouldn’t be that bad an option either.

But he doesn’t like his constituents that much, so he won’t!

Liam Fox is actually working with a Bristol South Labour MP to try and get this moving. The recent adjournment debate was a win which has helped the current move forward!

[winsaw]

3 hours ago, TomF said:

This just sounds a rehash of the news from a month ago. The date of 19/2/23 is the end of the 6 month extension for a decision to be made. They don’t need to wait till then 

Agree the whole point of waiting was so that funding could be sorted out, now that's all sorted they should just green light it, 

[winsaw]

5 hours ago, Monkeh said:

All the stuff taken out can be added at a later date, the important thing is getting trains running

But it will be much harder and more expensive,

Making the stations on the line 5 coaches from the off and with the ability to pass trains at Pill so 30 minutes service could be attached when busy is what they should be aiming for,

A good comparison would be borders rail in Scotland a line they reopened to Tweedbank they did it as cheep as possible and it's proved to be mush more popular than expected so now the basic way it was built is not up to the level needed, so they are going to have to spend a lot of money to run longer and more frequent trains, it's like these politicians don't learn, 

[Redtucks]

6 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Does it really surprise you?

I remember reading a comment by someone on the reason Ashton Gate station wouldn't go ahead.
Too busy on Saturdays and not busy enough during the week. 
That line and the Portishead line would be ideal for a Tram system like around Man City's ground surely.

I remember several years ago at the Senior Reds, when the first plans of the Ashton Gate indoor arena/hotels etc. were announced, that an Ashton Gate Halt was a part of the plan and that BCFC/Steve Lansdown were prepared to pay for it.

 

[Dr Balls]

8 hours ago, TomF said:

I believe there is a whole project cost review to see if they can save some money elsewhere to possibly not have to take cost cutting measures elsewhere.  It’s not like Shapps is going to do anything while recess is on anyway 

@TomFit’s not like Grant Shapps has done anything at all so far other than dither and delay. All the money has been pledged, all he has to do is sign it off ASAP. However you and I know that he won’t do anything until the last moment possible, assuming that there isn’t some other bump along the way.

@East End Old BoyI am not saying that Liam Fox hasn’t tried to push things forward, and that he has vented his frustration at the whole process, but the reality is that as far as the Tory party are concerned, the South West is not their focus, so funding and projects down here are not a priority. The assumption is that us bumpkins will continue to tug our forelocks and vote for them, come what may. A concentrating of minds is what is needed - and Dr Fox taking the “nuclear option” would certainly do that!

[Slippin cider]

10 hours ago, archie andrews said:

like i said earlier if this was germany or japan it would be built by now.....effing get on with it

Or pretty much any other UK city ….

[Never to the dark side]

please register for your smart cards

https://www.gwr.com/your-tickets/smart-tickets/touch

[East End Old Boy]

2 hours ago, Never to the dark side said:

please register for your smart cards

https://www.gwr.com/your-tickets/smart-tickets/touch

They started issuing these years ago, can finally start using it!

[Dr Balls]

16 minutes ago, East End Old Boy said:

They started issuing these years ago, can finally start using it!

And at least another 3-4 years before it will get you to Portishead!

[East End Old Boy]

8 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

And at least another 3-4 years before it will get you to Portishead!

Sadly you’re not wrong! 

[East End Old Boy]

9 hours ago, TomF said:

Can you just not use the app?

It would make sense if the card could be added to a phone’s wallet, which currently isn’t the case!

[WarksRobin]

Article on the New Civil Engineer website today:

Council sets out new funding plans for Portishead line restoration

North Somerset District Council has outlined its updated funding plans for the proposed Portishead line after it was revealed that delays in the planning process have pushed up the cost of restoring the line.

Last month the West of England Combined Authority (WECA) confirmed that the cost of the project has risen to £152M, meaning an additional £35.6M is needed. When plans were first submitted the cost of restoring the rail line to Bristol was estimated to be in the region of £116.4M.

The WECA has since committed an extra £10M to the scheme, the council has committed another £10M and the Department for Transport (DfT) is to provide the remaining £15.6M.

As part of the planning process, the council has now set out its updated funding breakdown (see below). MetroWest Phase 1 programme manager James Willcock added that the expectation is that the decision on the project's development consent order (DCO) application can now be made "no later" than 14 November 2022.

He said: "From a scheme delivery perspective, a DCO decision sooner than 14 November 2022 would be helpful."

The council added that based on the funds now available, if the DCO is granted, "there is no reason to believe that [...] the DCO scheme will not proceed due to there being insufficient funding".

 

According to the WECA, the cost hike has been caused by "delays to approval of the scheme’s DCO and unprecedented global increases to the cost of energy, labour and construction materials".

Back in late 2019, North Somerset District Council received approval from the Planning Inspectorate to examine plans for the scheme to restore rail services to the MetroWest branch line between Bristol and Portishead. Since then, the scheme has overcome many planning hurdles to satisfy National Trust, National Highways and the Environment Agency.

However, it is yet to receive planning sign off from transport secretary Grant Shapps, who has twice delayed his decision on the development consent order application.

In April, Shapps said that he was “of a mind” to approve the scheme, but requested more information on costs before giving the green light.

West of England metro mayor Dan Norris has previously labelled the DfT’s concerns about the project as “groundless”.

 

The WECA and North Somerset Council project would be delivered in partnership with Network Rail.

Network Rail launched a search for contractors to build the proposed Portishead to Pill rail line in February last year.

[Slippin cider]

I will be very surprised if this actually goes ahead .

[pillred]

56 minutes ago, Slippin cider said:

I will be very surprised if this actually goes ahead .

With inflation touted to hit 20% next year and no end in sight to the end of the war in Ukraine pushing up fuel and transport costs I am afraid I have to agree, can you imagine what the final cost will be by 2026 rarely has any largescale project in this country ever come in on anything approaching the original budget, I give you HS2! 

[WarksRobin]

1 minute ago, pillred said:

With inflation touted to hit 20% next year and no end in sight to the end of the war in Ukraine pushing up fuel and transport costs I am afraid I have to agree, can you imagine what the final cost will be by 2026 rarely has any largescale project in this country ever come in on anything approaching the original budget, I give you HS2! 

You never hear about projects that come in on time and budget. It does happen but doesn't lend itself to sensational headlines.

HS2 is currently on budget. I suspect you are referring to the budget increase over the original cost estimate.

[pillred]

2 hours ago, WarksRobin said:

You never hear about projects that come in on time and budget. It does happen but doesn't lend itself to sensational headlines.

HS2 is currently on budget. I suspect you are referring to the budget increase over the original cost estimate.

Yes it's at least double the original estimate, which is why the current estimate of the cost of the Portishead line should be ignored as it will almost certainly be at least double by 2026. And very few large projects ever come in on budget, can you name me one?

Edited August 31, 2022 by pillred
Spelling

[James54De]

25 minutes ago, pillred said:

Yes it's at least double the original estimate, which is why the current estimate of the cost of the Portishead line should be ignored as it will almost certainly be at least double by 2026. And very few large projects ever come in on budget, can you name me one?

So many large government and council funded projects come in on time and on budget. Do you realise how many ‘large’ projects there actually are? The few that you can name that have come in way over and years late are recognisable for that reason. 

[WarksRobin]

41 minutes ago, pillred said:

Yes it's at least double the original estimate, which is why the current estimate of the cost of the Portishead line should be ignored as it will almost certainly be at least double by 2026. And very few large projects ever come in on budget, can you name me one?

The original was an estimate based on a route alignment. It needed design work, environmental assessment and consultation to work out the budget cost for the full scheme, which it is now in line with

Heathrow Terminal 2, almost all recent major road schemes on the Strategic Road Network, Birmingham Airport runway extension were delivered on time and budget

Of course there are failures - Crossrail / Elizabeth Line for one . I'm not in denial but to claim it always happens is incorrect

[pillred]

1 hour ago, WarksRobin said:

The original was an estimate based on a route alignment. It needed design work, environmental assessment and consultation to work out the budget cost for the full scheme, which it is now in line with

Heathrow Terminal 2, almost all recent major road schemes on the Strategic Road Network, Birmingham Airport runway extension were delivered on time and budget

Of course there are failures - Crossrail / Elizabeth Line for one . I'm not in denial but to claim it always happens is incorrect

I never said it always happens; I said very few there is a difference.

[Lanterne Rouge]

Just for a bit of info re reopening closed lines the Okehampton - Exeter service has had 120,000 journeys on it since it started, twice what was expected.

If you build (reopen) it, they will come.

[italian dave]

I've heard it suggested several places recently that big cuts to railway capital projects is one of the places that Sunak and Hunt are looking to fill some of the £50bn black hole.

I don't know how far the Portishead line is in terms of being irreversible, but it feels like possibly not far enough.

I hope that Liam Fox has ensured his support for Sunk is as royally rewarded as Braverman.

[pillred]

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

I've heard it suggested several places recently that big cuts to railway capital projects is one of the places that Sunak and Hunt are looking to fill some of the £50bn black hole.

I don't know how far the Portishead line is in terms of being irreversible, but it feels like possibly not far enough.

I hope that Liam Fox has ensured his support for Sunk is as royally rewarded as Braverman.

From where I'm standing (living) apart from clearing a few brambles and a lot of meetings and talks and having had a good look along the proposed line myself then you are right nothing much has been done at all, it's all pie in the sky, the cost is escalating by the day and more and more people are working from home and now the bus fares have come down to more affordable levels in my humble opinion the project is dead in the water as should HS2 be as well as that will turn out to be the biggest white elephant since the Brabazon.

[Bedred31]

Bit of (admittedly tangential) context. In my area, Luton airport has just finished the Luton Dart- a monorail between the station and airport. It’s only 1.4 miles long. It replaces an efficient existing bus service. It cost £210m ( that was the 2017 budget- final costs are not confirmed yet). And it’s sole purpose is to reduce the journey time for passengers ( essentially EasyJet) by 4mins. This, I’m told, is ‘levelling up’- not helping people in Portzed to commute to work in the docks or the city.

[italian dave]

7 hours ago, pillred said:

From where I'm standing (living) apart from clearing a few brambles and a lot of meetings and talks and having had a good look along the proposed line myself then you are right nothing much has been done at all, it's all pie in the sky, the cost is escalating by the day and more and more people are working from home and now the bus fares have come down to more affordable levels in my humble opinion the project is dead in the water as should HS2 be as well as that will turn out to be the biggest white elephant since the Brabazon.

It’s clearly not ‘dead in the water’ and in fact seems about as close as it’s possible to get to becoming reality without being irreversible. That was really my thought: it’s still not quite at that point and may suffer as a result. 

HS2 on the other hand is - at least for the main sections - past that stage. It’s actually being built. And probably won’t be cut as a result. 

56 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

Bit of (admittedly tangential) context. In my area, Luton airport has just finished the Luton Dart- a monorail between the station and airport. It’s only 1.4 miles long. It replaces an efficient existing bus service. It cost £210m ( that was the 2017 budget- final costs are not confirmed yet). And it’s sole purpose is to reduce the journey time for passengers ( essentially EasyJet) by 4mins. This, I’m told, is ‘levelling up’- not helping people in Portzed to commute to work in the docks or the city.

I believe the more recent assessments have suggested that the benefits will be two way: people travelling from Bristol to Portishead for work too. Portishead is a much bigger place now than it was when this was first discussed! 

[Port Said Red]

3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

It’s clearly not ‘dead in the water’ and in fact seems about as close as it’s possible to get to becoming reality without being irreversible. That was really my thought: it’s still not quite at that point and may suffer as a result. 

HS2 on the other hand is - at least for the main sections - past that stage. It’s actually being built. And probably won’t be cut as a result. 

I believe the more recent assessments have suggested that the benefits will be two way: people travelling from Bristol to Portishead for work too. Portishead is a much bigger place now than it was when this was first discussed! 

It's not just work though, looking at the traffic too and from the Gate the last couple of months has been depressing. When the Conference Centre project is up and running it's only going to get worse. Somehow we also need to persuade them to reconsider Ashton Gate Halt, it would be convenient for sport, but it's almost a 'must have' for the Conference crowds.

If you are suited and booted or carrying display equipment, you don't want to be walking from Temple Meads or even Parsons St, you want the most convenient route in.

[East End Old Boy]

53 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

It's not just work though, looking at the traffic too and from the Gate the last couple of months has been depressing. When the Conference Centre project is up and running it's only going to get worse. Somehow we also need to persuade them to reconsider Ashton Gate Halt, it would be convenient for sport, but it's almost a 'must have' for the Conference crowds.

If you are suited and booted or carrying display equipment, you don't want to be walking from Temple Meads or even Parsons St, you want the most convenient route in.

I remember when the Ashton Gate halt was used for football “special” trains in the 70’s. The problem I see is that the scheduled service will be a two carriage train once an hour, getting home after an evening game maybe an issue, unless they have the brains to accommodate sporting and other events?

[Port Said Red]

8 minutes ago, East End Old Boy said:

I remember when the Ashton Gate halt was used for football “special” trains in the 70’s. The problem I see is that the scheduled service will be a two carriage train once an hour, getting home after an evening game maybe an issue, unless they have the brains to accommodate sporting and other events?

I don't think its about the brains as you put it, the problem with increasing frequency as I understand it is the lack of passing places on what is mostly a single track line. Others might have more detail?