Bolton / Bury On The Brink (Merged)

[exAtyeoMax]

Can’t Jon Lansdown have a word with Mark Ashton? This can’t be allowed to happen. Does anyone do Twitter?

[Dr Balls]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/aug/28/bury-expulsion-efl-regulations-meaningless

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/29/bury-cva-investigation

Both articles are worth a read and back up much that has been written on this thread already. And while the Champions League undertakes its group stage draw and where money of £2bn is going to shared out this season, mostly to the clubs that are already the richest, you can see how a “free market” in football really works. Like many parts of capitalism, those with the most would actually like a monopoly on the commodity, so as to become even richer, whether it be stitching up the competitions to ensure that they always qualify, or enduring that they make the most from the TV rights.

Sport thrives on unpredictability, witness last weekend’s test match. And although last season’s Champions League semi-finals, and Ajax’s run to the semi-final were a throw back to more unpredictable times of the European Cup (finalists from Greece, Belgium and Sweden for instance) in the main, it’s the same predictable few clubs who make it to the last few rounds. And after a while if you don’t support one of those teams, it all gets just a bit boring.

[exAtyeoMax]

Has anyone set up a crowd funding page or something? Couldn’t every football fan donate a quid at the weekend to show real support? Could this be done by supporters trust or something? 

[22A]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

So Accrington Stanley went bust for less than £1m in today’s money. How many EFL clubs are “only” £1m in the red as of today?!!!

Aldershot went the same way in 1992;

 On 31 July, 1990, the club was actually wound up in the High Court, where the administrator described them as "hopelessly insolvent" with debts of £495,000 (comparatively trivial by today's standards) but were given a reprieve when 19 year-old property developer, Spencer Trethewy, bought the club for £200,000 and Aldershot were able to start the new season. It soon became apparent that Trethewy did not have the funds to keep the club running and he was removed in November 1990. (Trethewy later served a two-year sentence for fraud.) Aldershot struggled on to the end of the season (finishing next to last).

With the club continuing to struggle at the bottom of the league and debts spiraling out of control, the directors finally admitted defeat and on 25 March, 1992, Aldershot FC was wound up in the High Court for the second time. As a result they became the first club since Accrington Stanley to resign from the League during the course of a season. Ironically their shirt sponsor had gone bankrupt a couple of months earlier and the team played out their remaining fixtures in unsponsored shirts.

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, 22A said:

Aldershot went the same way in 1992;

 On 31 July, 1990, the club was actually wound up in the High Court, where the administrator described them as "hopelessly insolvent" with debts of £495,000 (comparatively trivial by today's standards) but were given a reprieve when 19 year-old property developer, Spencer Trethewy, bought the club for £200,000 and Aldershot were able to start the new season. It soon became apparent that Trethewy did not have the funds to keep the club running and he was removed in November 1990. (Trethewy later served a two-year sentence for fraud.) Aldershot struggled on to the end of the season (finishing next to last).

With the club continuing to struggle at the bottom of the league and debts spiraling out of control, the directors finally admitted defeat and on 25 March, 1992, Aldershot FC was wound up in the High Court for the second time. As a result they became the first club since Accrington Stanley to resign from the League during the course of a season. Ironically their shirt sponsor had gone bankrupt a couple of months earlier and the team played out their remaining fixtures in unsponsored shirts.

There's been a few!

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/sport/the-football-leagues-lost-clubs/

It also misses out Newport.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[BobBobSuperBob]

Quite a few Bolton Fans fancy Dean Holden As Manager But accept he may not fancy leaving here to go back there

[Northern Red]

20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Quite a few Bolton Fans fancy Dean Holden As Manager But accept he may not fancy leaving here to go back there

Ryan Lowe on Sky last night suggested Kevin Nolan, which is a decent shout I think.

[Lanterne Rouge]

33 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Ryan Lowe on Sky last night suggested Kevin Nolan, which is a decent shout I think.

It is. Out of work at present so no compo and a club legend everyone can get behind. He must have plenty of contacts too and always seems a decent bloke when interviewed.

He really can`t lose given the state they`re in and if he does keep them up they`ll build a statue of him.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Read something online well just a Tweet about Bury in NW Counties League.

Making a few assumptions here but surely that'd be AFC Bury or something, don't see who would buy it if the expulsion upheld? Plus would be next season I suspect.

Bolton- Big Sam return in some capacity at all possible? Wages notwithstanding of course!

[Bristol Rob]

Sorry if this has already been posted here, but this sums it up quite nicely.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I certainly agree with the sentiment.

The only slight caveat I would add is price of football rising, even at lower levels, and a lot of these towns aren't terribly well off...after all many of the ex bankrupt or indeed voted out of the League sides down the years were from Northern areas.

Always should support local side where possible though, absolutely!

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I certainly agree with the sentiment.

The only slight caveat I would add is price of football rising, even at lower levels, and a lot of these towns aren't terribly well off...after all many of the ex bankrupt or indeed voted out of the League sides down the years were from Northern areas.

Always should support local side where possible though, absolutely!

I know opportunities are limited in some areas, but increasingly roles are transient.

I probably go to the office once every 4 or 6 weeks, apart from that, I work from home. So in theory, I could earn exactly the rate I do now, but in a much cheaper area of the country. 

So yes, there are some areas of high unemployment, but people could easily invest in these areas.

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 27/08/2019 at 20:24, BS4 on Tour... said:

You still haven’t answered the questions I’ve asked you a couple of times - if City merged with another club and played under a different name, in a different location and in a different kit - would you go and watch them?

And if Bury and Bolton merged under the name Bury Wanderers and played in Bolton - how many fans of each club do you think would watch ‘that’?

.... I’ve assumed you haven’t got any answers to the questions I’ve continually asked you @Up The City! ? As you are a football fan who has made it clear you are in favour of clubs merging, I was really interested in your answers to my questions - you’ve been very active on here since I posed those questions so it’s clear you’ve chosen to simply ignore answering them, how rude! 

Edited August 29, 2019 by BS4 on Tour...

[spudski]

5 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Has anyone set up a crowd funding page or something? Couldn’t every football fan donate a quid at the weekend to show real support? Could this be done by supporters trust or something? 

Surprised no Bury fan had started one. They needed £3million...they would have got that no doubt.

[Lrrr]

10 hours ago, Northern Red said:

A minute of chanting "**** the EFL" would be better than applause.

Won't work for us this weekend, Sky will just mute the chants/play crowd noises instead for the tv audience to block it

[Port Said Red]

15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Said it the other day but worth reiterating- smacks a LOT of Accrington Stanley 1962, this final phase.

That was as of yesterday.

Accrington Stanley 1962.

EFL though technically a different organisation as Football League all one thing then, and not exactly identical circumstances, have YET AGAIN done the wrong thing by a club with potential for being saved at the last!!

 

14 hours ago, Loderingo said:

Why would a South American gold miner want to buy Bury?

Unfortunately, it is too late now and the only way back is via a phoenix club.

I was very suspicious of that when I read that article, where were these people 20 or 30 days ago? 

Proof of funds is one thing, they can’t have had time to do their due diligence, was Steve Dale prepares to sell to them, in my opinion its just shitstirring and giving their fans false hope. 

As @Loderingo says, the Phoenix club will be the best bet, let them invest in that if they are genuine, work their way back up the leagues.

This has happened to clubs like York and Halifax, but they didn’t get the same coverage because they had already fallen down the leagues, before going bust.

[Robson]

On 28/08/2019 at 15:03, Robson said:

 

 

GoFundMe page for Bury FC. 

All proceeds going to the Bury Community Trust. 

The twitter account has gained over 8k followers in 3 days.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

Article about a salary cap in the Football League!

Except just click on it and note the date . 

The will clearly just isn't, if it ever was, there.

One more thing.

Anyone know where the EGM of the 72 is??

Edited August 30, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[phantom]

1 hour ago, Robson said:

GoFundMe page for Bury FC. 

All proceeds going to the Bury Community Trust. 

The twitter account has gained over 8k followers in 3 days.  

I feel more empathy for the staff and players of the club who could do with this money more urgently

There are already reports on one player who has to move as he can't afford his mortgage and another who's wife is expecting

Maybe a bit random but would be a great gesture if Bolton could take on as many of these people as possible

[Mr Popodopolous]

It's fair to say that Bury are not going quietly- or their fans at least!

 

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/sport/17871024.forever-bury-refuse-rule-legal-action-efl-letter/

 

I think there could be a very real debate to be had as to whether the EFL followed their own rules in terms of the expulsion.

 

You'd assume they had but pretty questionable IMO...

Edited August 30, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[Taz]

3 hours ago, phantom said:

I feel more empathy for the staff and players of the club who could do with this money more urgently

There are already reports on one player who has to move as he can't afford his mortgage and another who's wife is expecting

Maybe a bit random but would be a great gesture if Bolton could take on as many of these people as possible

Well, they do need the players. Can't really be picky either especially as their youngsters can't play too many games in quick succession.......

[bcfc01]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's fair to say that Bury are not going quietly- or their fans at least!

 

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/sport/17871024.forever-bury-refuse-rule-legal-action-efl-letter/

 

I think there could be a very real debate to be had as to whether the EFL followed their own rules in terms of the expulsion.

Been waiting for something like that.

The EFL have a lot of questions to answer - they're not used to doing that.

Be interesting to see if the EFL respond and, if they do, how much deeper they dig that hole.

[Ska Junkie]

While I really feel for the employees and staff of Bury, as well as the fans, maybe if they didn't overspend last season they would still have a club to follow? I know the owner is / was an absolute horror show but they clearly spent way out of their means last year didn't they which can't have helped?

[Northern Red]

28 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's fair to say that Bury are not going quietly- or their fans at least!

 

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/sport/17871024.forever-bury-refuse-rule-legal-action-efl-letter/

 

I think there could be a very real debate to be had as to whether the EFL followed their own rules in terms of the expulsion.

 

You'd assume they had but pretty questionable IMO...

Never assume anything as far as the EFL are concerned.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

Never assume anything as far as the EFL are concerned.

Ha well quite.

A decision as momentous as expulsion of a club though- can't just leave that to a few board members! Let alone claims it was sent via email etc.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

While I really feel for the employees and staff of Bury, as well as the fans, maybe if they didn't overspend last season they would still have a club to follow? I know the owner is / was an absolute horror show but they clearly spent way out of their means last year didn't they which can't have helped?

Part of the puzzle as well as all of the dodgy aspects is just how much they overspent last season- or as the case maybe, didn't overspend so much.

We don't have the accounts for 2017/18 for either club and obviously not last season- but I've read online that a lot of the high earners were released ahead of last season so it's really unclear- Bolton's is a bigger puzzle in some ways, if their 2017/18 accounts are ever released we'll see but I estimate they likely broke even in 2017/18 if not made a modest profit- Bolton that is.

Spending beyond means can mean different things too- given Dale seemingly put nothing in, I suppose spending beyond their means in this case would be anything above pure break even but really most clubs spend beyond their means and are one way or another reliant on an owner to fund the shortfall, especially outside the PL!

To put it another way, if tomorrow there was zero owner investment to cover club costs but especially wages, fees and the like- how many clubs would be left standing when the music stopped!

Edited August 30, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

They may as well do this, tbh.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49526433

[phantom]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They may as well do this, tbh.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49526433

Kind of shit or bust - they have nothing else to lose?

[kelbcfc]

Although I have sympathy with the Bury fans this should have been sorted one way or another before the season started.

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, kelbcfc said:

Although I have sympathy with the Bury fans this should have been sorted one way or another before the season started.

I am not sure why I think this and legalities may have superseded it but I have a sneaking suspicion that Shaun Harvey would have let Bury start the season or at least have a crack!

Does anyone else agree?

Edited August 30, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I am not sure why I think this and legalities may have superseded it but I have a sneaking suspicion that Shaun Harvey would have let Bury start the season or at least have a crack!

Does anyone else agree?

Not sure Mr P

The more I read about Dale , IMHO it’s quite clear he was asset stripping from Day 1 and had no intention of continuing Bury as a Football Club 

I dintdidnt realise that Day hadn’t even told the EFL that he’d sold Bury to Dale and the first the EFL knew about it was when Day introduced to them Dale as the new owner !

[Leveller]

19 minutes ago, kelbcfc said:

Although I have sympathy with the Bury fans this should have been sorted one way or another before the season started.

Exactly. Complaining that they have only just missed the (latest) deadline when they have got this far into the season just doesn’t wash. How long is the EFL supposed to wait, only to discover that the latest bidders may well pull out too. Why haven’t the latest bidders been involved before now. The EFL haven’t covered themselves in glory, but let’s not forget that in these desperate cases they’re probably sometimes asked to accept the only prospective owners that come forward with a rescue bid.

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Not sure Mr P

The more I read about Dale , IMHO it’s quite clear he was asset stripping from Day 1 and had no intention of continuing Bury as a Football Club 

I dintdidnt realise that Day hadn’t even told the EFL that he’d sold Bury to Dale and the first the EFL knew about it was when Day introduced to them Dale as the new owner !

Looked into it a bit myself Bob.

Yep, seems like Dale an asset stripper. Day's motives seem a weird mix- got himself into a financial mess but mortgaged against the ground- David Conn is very good on this, actually very good full stop and actually wrote an article as far back as December 2014 about the charge on Gigg Lane and the subsequent interest payments! Yet overspent and gambled to try and hit his own target, which was Championship in 5 seasons!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2014/nov/12/bury-high-interest-loans-shadow-recovery

At THAT stage the EFL should have looked into matters, that article the starting point- should have sounded the alarm...actually scratch that the EFL are worse than useless, so dunno who- the FA?

I wonder which way our own Mark Ashton voted on the Bury decision- given he's on the board?

Edited August 30, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Looked into it a bit myself Bob.

Yep, seems like Dale an asset stripper. Day's motives seem a weird mix- got himself into a financial mess but mortgaged against the ground- David Conn is very good on this, actia;;y very good full stop and actually wrote an article as far back as December 2014 about the charge on Gigg Lane and the subsequent interest payments! Yet overspent and gamble to try and hit his own target, which was Championship in 5 seasons!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2014/nov/12/bury-high-interest-loans-shadow-recovery

At THAT stage the EFL should have looked into matters, that article the starting point- should have sounded the alarm...actually scratch that the EFL are worse than useless, so dunno who- the FA?

He’s liquidated 47 companies 

That’s what he does

How can he ever be ‘fit and proper’ for a football club

[Mr Popodopolous]

50 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

He’s liquidated 47 companies 

That’s what he does

How can he ever be ‘fit and proper’ for a football club

Agreed- that "test" is a joke- plus even if his intent was benign, which it clearly was not, I bet he didn't have to provide proper proof of funds either- funds which I doubt he has even if his intent was benign.

Football has always attracted some very dubious owners but Dale and Anderson (possibly Day) seem a new breed- mad owners, bad owners- Knighton, Noades, Smith and Vaughan at Chester to name a few. Never really aset strippers though, the last 2 I believe drove them into the ground over time through rank bad management but asset strippers to this extent seems a new, worrying phase.

No fan of the Mel Morris ground thing but a good listen nonetheless.

https://talksport.com/football/efl/593527/derby-county-mel-morris-bury-expelled-efl/

Edited August 30, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed- that "test" is a joke- plus even if his intent was benign, which it clearly was not, I bet he didn't have to provide proper proof of funds either- funds which I doubt he has even if his intent was benign.

Football has always attracted some very dubious owners but Dale and Anderson (possibly Day) seem a new breed- mad owners, bad owners- Knighton, Noades, Smith and Vaughan at Chester to name a few. Never really aset strippers though, the last 2 I believe drove them into the ground over time through rank bad management but asset strippers to this extent seems a new, worrying phase.

The EFL internal ‘rules’ state that they must view proof of funds within 10 days 

Dale bought Bury in December .......and the EFL never have 

[Mr Popodopolous]

One more thing.

Read the other day that in the past- and obviously strip out things like payments to grass roots.

Anyway in the past, it was 50% for top division, 25% for second tier and 25% to the bottom two- let's say 12.5% each or 15% and 10%.

If all of the PL and FL TV deals were pooled, adjusted for aforementioned grass roots etc, and the remainder divided up- well if anyone has the figures to hand it'd be very interesting!

I know some gets distributed down in the form of solidarity payments but the PL in a sense drove the inflation, but pooling all that and dividing it in that fashion would be very interesting to see.

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

One more thing.

Read the other day that in the past- and obviously strip out things like payments to grass roots.

Anyway in the past, it was 50% for top division, 25% for second tier and 25% to the bottom two- let's say 12.5% each or 15% and 10%.

If all of the PL and FL TV deals were pooled, adjusted for aforementioned grass roots etc, and the remainder divided up- well if anyone has the figures to hand it'd be very interesting!

I know some gets distributed down in the form of solidarity payments but the PL in a sense drove the inflation, but pooling all that and dividing it in that fashion would be very interesting to see.

I hear Man Utd (Fair Play) have motioned the idea that solidarity payments from the Premier League pot are increased 

We do ok with over £4 million but League One And Two Clubs not so well (hundreds of thousands )

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I hear Man Utd (Fair Play) have motioned the idea that solidarity payments from the Premier League pot are increased 

We do ok with over £4 million but League One And Two Clubs not so well (hundreds of thousands )

That is good news and yes fair play to them for that.

The split off in 1992 though is where it all stems back to, to an extent IMO but much mismanagement by bad owners and the Football League alike too.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[BobBobSuperBob]

11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That is good news and yes fair play to them for that.

The split off in 1992 though is where it all stems back to, to an extent IMO but much mismanagement by bad owners and the Football League alike too.

I agree , when I heard that , I did think whether you give Club A £400k. Or £1.2m - if they are badly managed or asset stripped it would make little difference to an eventual income 

Having to deposit an annual Bond equal to the forthcoming 12 months running costs , with the EFL , is one I’d like to see 

[phantom]

To All,

Firstly apologies that my efforts to save Bury from the decimation that I inherited from the previous owners have not been enough to date, after the CVA I thought we had a great future little did I realise the governing body allegedly there to help our Clubs would be our greatest threat but rest assured that issue is not over by a long shot

POSITIVES

I know it hurts but let’s be a glass half full here and start the fight from that point; All realise Bury FC is still here it’s been removed from the league for this season onlyas per the Solicitors letter I received yesterday after asking them was anybody going to write to me formally to advise that they had removed us from the league, one would have thought that would have been done immediately if they were indeed a professional body?

I am in talks with the Bridging Loan Company who have a charge on our Stadium that the previous owner took out, whilst it’s a huge amount the Company is working with me to allow a 2 year holiday on capital repayment and we are agreeing on a sensible interest rate, I thank them for working with us, so Gigg will be safe.

CVA, the removal from the league and its financial implications has a huge effect on this however if you want me to stay I will do all I can in whatever way I can because if this gets finalised we have no threats to our Club and were safe to fight another day.

The EFL monies held over £600k should be paid to our football creditors reducing our CVA but who knows with the EFL’s agenda. There are some good people and some former Directors who left because of the previous owners who have understood what I had to do was needed and have offered help, if I stay I will be definitely calling on them

NEGATIVES

We need to address the ill truths/spin put out by Debbie Jevans as we can prove 100% that her words to media and statements put out portrayed a totally different picture to reality, they work on spin/miss direction, try to discredit the owner to take the passionate fans and heat away from them the real culprits, with little care how these ill truths affect the owners and their families.

I keep hearing Mrs. Jevans saying how they are there to help, the only help I ever had from the EFL was Shaun Harvey who advised on the CVA and got a payment sent to us, the last we ever had from them, as for help and support non-existent, threats plenty, help NilWe have our academy monies monthly but for some reason in closed season they do not pay out but give 3 payments at the end of August, we have managed to pay the Academy people previously but due to this devastation by the EFL we were reliant on today’s payment to pay Staff and guess what the EPPP have withheld payment even though it was for previous months prior removal from the league, makes you wonder as I’m advised they occupy the same offices as the EFL?

Common theme don’t you think in screwing Bury we will be passing to our Lawyers. I am hopeful that the Serious Fraud investigation will see the perpetrators brought to justice soon and disclosures can be made, this will allow fans to see what really was going on behind the scenes that seriously added to our current situation.

The investigation uncovered Reporters and Media outlets who through certain individuals at the club were receiving private and confidential information about the club, very News of the World, but they too will be exposed.

We need to clear out and start again, time and events have shown we have a handful of trustworthy Staff who care for Bury but the rest need to go it’s time for a change, new blood. Buyers: James Frith brought Sporting Risk to the table I was hopeful that they could buy Bury but they would never provide proof of funds to me, just kept requesting more information one of the first I gave them was on the Stadium loan so it came as a shock they pulled out at the last minute for a debt they had known about for months.

Another bid came in and, once again I have never seen proof of funds or heard from them since. We also had a handful of timewasters but nothing concrete I can confirm I have an offer from an individual, however, the NDA prevents me from disclosing and if the Fans want me out I will sell to him.

EFL Well, there’s a story to tell but as we're coming up to page 3 so we will save the full story for another day, but ask yourselves this. The biggest even in the league's recent history was decided by a couple of people who have shown there dislike for Bury by; Withholding all monies due to the Club since early this year starving it for cash on the back of we owe Clubs what they don’t take into account/say is that Clubs owed us a similar amount.

I went to the EFL once I found out the level of problems in the Club when I first came, Shaun Harvey said to try to keep it going Steve as we have Bolton and Blackpool, I said I felt the only possibility was a CVA but that would cost me a fortune and we would get points.

I was advised whilst we would initially get points we could appeal under a clause “Force majeure” as the actions of the previous owner meant this was a slam dunk. We sent our appeal in and got no initial reply then got a, under the circumstances you’re not applicable email, how would they know without the evidence, then a few days later got an aggressive Lawyers letter saying your out of time and you had to pay £5000 to appeal, which I was not aware of, but contrary to what they say we appealed in time and we have a 100% watertight case.

At a meeting with Craig and Jevans he boasted that nobody has ever won an appeal as this was some badge of honour, I thought it was about truth. When we were on a conference call early after the CVA we explained you never know we could go up other Clubs have, the reply “not when we give you 12 points” again a common theme.Embargo on players signing, when we asked could that be lifted before the transfer window shut, Mrs Jevans replied “when is that” and latterly “can’t you play your youth” There are others but you get my point.

As stated the biggest event in the recent league history was decided by the biased few, Jevans keeps saying we act for 72 Clubs, so given the magnitude of their actions would you not think a sealed private ballot would be taken from all the Clubs so there could be no retribution from the league, something I was warned of when I came, the Chairmen I have spoken to would not have backed removal as tomorrow it could be them given the shambles the league and its Clubs are in.

I request an independent report is carried out and a ballot taken to reintroduce Bury to the league

Yours sincerely

Steven D Dale

Chairman Bury FC

[Red Army 75]

Says the bloke that he never heard of Bury football club and could walk away no problem. Absolute piece of shit 

[BobBobSuperBob]

(Thanks for posting @phantom )

Having heard this bloke spout on radio over last few weeks I can’t believe a single word he says 

[Northern Red]

He's talking out of his arse.

[PHILINFRANCE]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Looked into it a bit myself Bob.

Yep, seems like Dale an asset stripper.

At THAT stage the EFL should have looked into matters, that article the starting point- should have sounded the alarm...actually scratch that the EFL are worse than useless, so dunno who- the FA?

 

5 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

He’s liquidated 47 companies 

That’s what he does

How can he ever be ‘fit and proper’ for a football club

 

41 minutes ago, phantom said:

To All,

Firstly apologies that my efforts to save Bury from the decimation that I inherited from the previous owners have not been enough to date, after the CVA I thought we had a great future little did I realise the governing body allegedly there to help our Clubs would be our greatest threat but rest assured that issue is not over by a long shot

I request an independent report is carried out.

Yours sincerely

   

Steven D Dale

Chairman Bury FC

Have a quick Google for Bury FC Heritage and Bury FC Leisure and then on the Companies House site.

Both companies owned by SD and founded in December 2018, i.e. very soon afer he took over Bury.

It will be very interesting to see what assets have been sold/transferred from Bury to these two companies when their accounts are published.

Edited August 30, 2019 by PHILINFRANCE

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

To All,

Firstly apologies that my efforts to save Bury from the decimation that I inherited from the previous owners have not been enough to date, after the CVA I thought we had a great future little did I realise the governing body allegedly there to help our Clubs would be our greatest threat but rest assured that issue is not over by a long shot

POSITIVES

I know it hurts but let’s be a glass half full here and start the fight from that point; All realise Bury FC is still here it’s been removed from the league for this season onlyas per the Solicitors letter I received yesterday after asking them was anybody going to write to me formally to advise that they had removed us from the league, one would have thought that would have been done immediately if they were indeed a professional body?

I am in talks with the Bridging Loan Company who have a charge on our Stadium that the previous owner took out, whilst it’s a huge amount the Company is working with me to allow a 2 year holiday on capital repayment and we are agreeing on a sensible interest rate, I thank them for working with us, so Gigg will be safe.

CVA, the removal from the league and its financial implications has a huge effect on this however if you want me to stay I will do all I can in whatever way I can because if this gets finalised we have no threats to our Club and were safe to fight another day.

The EFL monies held over £600k should be paid to our football creditors reducing our CVA but who knows with the EFL’s agenda. There are some good people and some former Directors who left because of the previous owners who have understood what I had to do was needed and have offered help, if I stay I will be definitely calling on them

NEGATIVES

We need to address the ill truths/spin put out by Debbie Jevans as we can prove 100% that her words to media and statements put out portrayed a totally different picture to reality, they work on spin/miss direction, try to discredit the owner to take the passionate fans and heat away from them the real culprits, with little care how these ill truths affect the owners and their families.

I keep hearing Mrs. Jevans saying how they are there to help, the only help I ever had from the EFL was Shaun Harvey who advised on the CVA and got a payment sent to us, the last we ever had from them, as for help and support non-existent, threats plenty, help NilWe have our academy monies monthly but for some reason in closed season they do not pay out but give 3 payments at the end of August, we have managed to pay the Academy people previously but due to this devastation by the EFL we were reliant on today’s payment to pay Staff and guess what the EPPP have withheld payment even though it was for previous months prior removal from the league, makes you wonder as I’m advised they occupy the same offices as the EFL?

Common theme don’t you think in screwing Bury we will be passing to our Lawyers. I am hopeful that the Serious Fraud investigation will see the perpetrators brought to justice soon and disclosures can be made, this will allow fans to see what really was going on behind the scenes that seriously added to our current situation.

The investigation uncovered Reporters and Media outlets who through certain individuals at the club were receiving private and confidential information about the club, very News of the World, but they too will be exposed.

We need to clear out and start again, time and events have shown we have a handful of trustworthy Staff who care for Bury but the rest need to go it’s time for a change, new blood. Buyers: James Frith brought Sporting Risk to the table I was hopeful that they could buy Bury but they would never provide proof of funds to me, just kept requesting more information one of the first I gave them was on the Stadium loan so it came as a shock they pulled out at the last minute for a debt they had known about for months.

Another bid came in and, once again I have never seen proof of funds or heard from them since. We also had a handful of timewasters but nothing concrete I can confirm I have an offer from an individual, however, the NDA prevents me from disclosing and if the Fans want me out I will sell to him.

EFL Well, there’s a story to tell but as we're coming up to page 3 so we will save the full story for another day, but ask yourselves this. The biggest even in the league's recent history was decided by a couple of people who have shown there dislike for Bury by; Withholding all monies due to the Club since early this year starving it for cash on the back of we owe Clubs what they don’t take into account/say is that Clubs owed us a similar amount.

I went to the EFL once I found out the level of problems in the Club when I first came, Shaun Harvey said to try to keep it going Steve as we have Bolton and Blackpool, I said I felt the only possibility was a CVA but that would cost me a fortune and we would get points.

I was advised whilst we would initially get points we could appeal under a clause “Force majeure” as the actions of the previous owner meant this was a slam dunk. We sent our appeal in and got no initial reply then got a, under the circumstances you’re not applicable email, how would they know without the evidence, then a few days later got an aggressive Lawyers letter saying your out of time and you had to pay £5000 to appeal, which I was not aware of, but contrary to what they say we appealed in time and we have a 100% watertight case.

At a meeting with Craig and Jevans he boasted that nobody has ever won an appeal as this was some badge of honour, I thought it was about truth. When we were on a conference call early after the CVA we explained you never know we could go up other Clubs have, the reply “not when we give you 12 points” again a common theme.Embargo on players signing, when we asked could that be lifted before the transfer window shut, Mrs Jevans replied “when is that” and latterly “can’t you play your youth” There are others but you get my point.

As stated the biggest event in the recent league history was decided by the biased few, Jevans keeps saying we act for 72 Clubs, so given the magnitude of their actions would you not think a sealed private ballot would be taken from all the Clubs so there could be no retribution from the league, something I was warned of when I came, the Chairmen I have spoken to would not have backed removal as tomorrow it could be them given the shambles the league and its Clubs are in.

I request an independent report is carried out and a ballot taken to reintroduce Bury to the league

Yours sincerely

Steven D Dale

Chairman Bury FC

Peak, and I mean PEAK "I've had a pint or three and my lawyer's gone to bed so let's just attack the keyboard" chairman's statement. I mean really, given the situation, take the WordPress password off of the guy. 

Honestly the utter state of this.

[exAtyeoMax]

7 hours ago, Leveller said:

Exactly. Complaining that they have only just missed the (latest) deadline when they have got this far into the season just doesn’t wash. How long is the EFL supposed to wait, only to discover that the latest bidders may well pull out too. Why haven’t the latest bidders been involved before now. The EFL haven’t covered themselves in glory, but let’s not forget that in these desperate cases they’re probably sometimes asked to accept the only prospective owners that come forward with a rescue bid.

Hadn’t Dale told EFL that he had other buyers lined up before the Brazil contingent got involved but then that fell through? Was he trying to scupper any plans for a buyout deliberately???

[phantom]

8 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Peak, and I mean PEAK "I've had a pint or three and my lawyer's gone to bed so let's just attack the keyboard" chairman's statement. I mean really, given the situation, take the WordPress password off of the guy. 

Honestly the utter state of this.

Someone needs to change the password to their website too 

[Ronnie Sinclair]

Bolton have appointed Keith Hill as their new manager

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49538882

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

Bolton have appointed Keith Hill as their new manager

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49538882

Sensible appointment that

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 30/08/2019 at 21:22, phantom said:

To All,

Firstly apologies that my efforts to save Bury from the decimation that I inherited from the previous owners have not been enough to date, after the CVA I thought we had a great future little did I realise the governing body allegedly there to help our Clubs would be our greatest threat but rest assured that issue is not over by a long shot

POSITIVES

I know it hurts but let’s be a glass half full here and start the fight from that point; All realise Bury FC is still here it’s been removed from the league for this season onlyas per the Solicitors letter I received yesterday after asking them was anybody going to write to me formally to advise that they had removed us from the league, one would have thought that would have been done immediately if they were indeed a professional body?

I am in talks with the Bridging Loan Company who have a charge on our Stadium that the previous owner took out, whilst it’s a huge amount the Company is working with me to allow a 2 year holiday on capital repayment and we are agreeing on a sensible interest rate, I thank them for working with us, so Gigg will be safe.

CVA, the removal from the league and its financial implications has a huge effect on this however if you want me to stay I will do all I can in whatever way I can because if this gets finalised we have no threats to our Club and were safe to fight another day.

The EFL monies held over £600k should be paid to our football creditors reducing our CVA but who knows with the EFL’s agenda. There are some good people and some former Directors who left because of the previous owners who have understood what I had to do was needed and have offered help, if I stay I will be definitely calling on them

NEGATIVES

We need to address the ill truths/spin put out by Debbie Jevans as we can prove 100% that her words to media and statements put out portrayed a totally different picture to reality, they work on spin/miss direction, try to discredit the owner to take the passionate fans and heat away from them the real culprits, with little care how these ill truths affect the owners and their families.

I keep hearing Mrs. Jevans saying how they are there to help, the only help I ever had from the EFL was Shaun Harvey who advised on the CVA and got a payment sent to us, the last we ever had from them, as for help and support non-existent, threats plenty, help NilWe have our academy monies monthly but for some reason in closed season they do not pay out but give 3 payments at the end of August, we have managed to pay the Academy people previously but due to this devastation by the EFL we were reliant on today’s payment to pay Staff and guess what the EPPP have withheld payment even though it was for previous months prior removal from the league, makes you wonder as I’m advised they occupy the same offices as the EFL?

Common theme don’t you think in screwing Bury we will be passing to our Lawyers. I am hopeful that the Serious Fraud investigation will see the perpetrators brought to justice soon and disclosures can be made, this will allow fans to see what really was going on behind the scenes that seriously added to our current situation.

The investigation uncovered Reporters and Media outlets who through certain individuals at the club were receiving private and confidential information about the club, very News of the World, but they too will be exposed.

We need to clear out and start again, time and events have shown we have a handful of trustworthy Staff who care for Bury but the rest need to go it’s time for a change, new blood. Buyers: James Frith brought Sporting Risk to the table I was hopeful that they could buy Bury but they would never provide proof of funds to me, just kept requesting more information one of the first I gave them was on the Stadium loan so it came as a shock they pulled out at the last minute for a debt they had known about for months.

Another bid came in and, once again I have never seen proof of funds or heard from them since. We also had a handful of timewasters but nothing concrete I can confirm I have an offer from an individual, however, the NDA prevents me from disclosing and if the Fans want me out I will sell to him.

EFL Well, there’s a story to tell but as we're coming up to page 3 so we will save the full story for another day, but ask yourselves this. The biggest even in the league's recent history was decided by a couple of people who have shown there dislike for Bury by; Withholding all monies due to the Club since early this year starving it for cash on the back of we owe Clubs what they don’t take into account/say is that Clubs owed us a similar amount.

I went to the EFL once I found out the level of problems in the Club when I first came, Shaun Harvey said to try to keep it going Steve as we have Bolton and Blackpool, I said I felt the only possibility was a CVA but that would cost me a fortune and we would get points.

I was advised whilst we would initially get points we could appeal under a clause “Force majeure” as the actions of the previous owner meant this was a slam dunk. We sent our appeal in and got no initial reply then got a, under the circumstances you’re not applicable email, how would they know without the evidence, then a few days later got an aggressive Lawyers letter saying your out of time and you had to pay £5000 to appeal, which I was not aware of, but contrary to what they say we appealed in time and we have a 100% watertight case.

At a meeting with Craig and Jevans he boasted that nobody has ever won an appeal as this was some badge of honour, I thought it was about truth. When we were on a conference call early after the CVA we explained you never know we could go up other Clubs have, the reply “not when we give you 12 points” again a common theme.Embargo on players signing, when we asked could that be lifted before the transfer window shut, Mrs Jevans replied “when is that” and latterly “can’t you play your youth” There are others but you get my point.

As stated the biggest event in the recent league history was decided by the biased few, Jevans keeps saying we act for 72 Clubs, so given the magnitude of their actions would you not think a sealed private ballot would be taken from all the Clubs so there could be no retribution from the league, something I was warned of when I came, the Chairmen I have spoken to would not have backed removal as tomorrow it could be them given the shambles the league and its Clubs are in.

I request an independent report is carried out and a ballot taken to reintroduce Bury to the league

Yours sincerely

Steven D Dale

Chairman Bury FC

He's a potential asset stripper, clearly incapable of running a club and I doubt he had the funds to fulfil it either- wholly unfit and improper in short. Useless at best!

For all that, he raises some valid points and questions!

I fully agree for example that a full vote of the 72 should be the benchmark to expel a side. A decision like that isn't for a board IMO.

Could his point/idea of £600k of with held cash being paid to football creditors be a goer? I don't know but it seems an interesting one.

[Dr Balls]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/31/death-of-bury-fc-not-only-thing-rotten-in-game-of-football

Another interesting read putting Bury’s demise into a wider context in what is happening to football globally. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Assuming there is no miraculous saving of Bury, or reinstatement to the EFL to play in League 2 next season with a new owner- probably not so likely, a few things that should IMO happen now.

Bottom 2 Divisions:

1. A better distribution of cash/solidarity payments.
2. A beefed up fit and proper person test- an independent body if necessary, maybe preferably.
3. Proper enforcement of the 55%-60% limits to go with the increased/better spread distribution in the respective Leagues 1 and 2, and a stipulation that if extra owner investment is to expand the turnover, then it must be a bond/cash as opposed to loaned or borrowed money at these lower levels.
4. Monthly monitoring of accounts by the EFL. At the FIRST sign of distress, an embargo is imposed as a holding position. They cannot make the issue worse therefore- something automatic e.g. late payment of wages for the first time might trigger say a January embargo.

At Championship:

1. A removal of the regulation, or perhaps an amendment- either sale and leaseback of fixed assets no longer count towards FFP or all clubs allowed to do it once. If I had my way, clubs who haven't made efforts in other ways e.g. Aston Villa and mostly Sheffield Wednesday until Joao sold, shouldn't be allowed to have done it. Conditionality would have been interesting, but how enforceable?
2. Total clarity of the regulations and punishment for breaching them. The points tariff is a start but offsetting of losses with stadia sale/leaseback a joke and particularly for those who haven't sold key players- see point one in this.
3. Monthly monitoring for these too, with the soft embargo as a holding position when possible problems arise. Should be automatic e.g. late payment of wages.

This would improve a lot of the current issues- but is the will there?

Edited September 2, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[CotswoldRed]

On 29/08/2019 at 13:32, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

No - I agree it looks like a long shot! Certainly need more than just poor Bury going under for government to do anything about it. Looks like there have been periodic calls from government for better football governance for over 50 years!

But I think hoping that the EFL will come up with meaningful reforms is even more unlikely.

The government won't intervene. We've lost the vast majority of great pubs serving communities across the country. Arguably closer to the core of their communities than even football clubs are. 

The government did nothing to stop it, even perpetuated it. 

Our government are full of inhuman narcissists. Good luck. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

According to this post, the vote was 8-0, unanimous.

Quote

Bury-FC-??30th August 11:08 pm

 2I'm coming round to the above opinion.

Until I found out who the Eight board members were I thought how can the EFL Board possible phantom out the ramifications of their actions.
The years of loyal support, The heritage of the club and the historical importance of the club in the community.
So I found out and I am absolutely gobsmacked and frankly in a state of shock at who was on this board that voted unanimously 8-0 Jevans said, Not one member in support, Then this board could of made amends on Thursday instead they upheld the expulsion.

Debbie Jevans CBE
EFL Executive Chair

Simon Bazalgette
Independent Non-Executive Director

Mark Ashton -Championship Director - Bristol City

Stephen Pearce -Championship Director - Derby County

Nigel Howe -Championship Director - Reading

Jez Mosey -League One Director - Burton Albion

Steven Curwood - League One Director - Fleetwood Town

John Nixon -League Two Director - Carlisle United

These are football men, They would know and understand exactly what loosing a football team in a town like Bury would mean. Some things are not adding up. I'd welcome if anyone can shed credible information on what went on prior to Tuesdays Deadline..

Do hope Mark Ashton didn't vote for it...at least at minimum not without the proper chance for any of those bids to stand or fall.

Also worth noting that 2 of those who would've voted for it- Nigel Howe and Stephen Pearce- were at clubs who stretched the FFP Rules.

John Nixon- of Carlisle- at a club whose manager openly said Bury and others in their boat should be expelled pre season. Should've been a vote of the 72 IMO! Had there been a unanimous/majority of sufficent numbers voting for expulsion then nobody could complain.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[Eddie Hitler]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Assuming there is no miraculous saving of Bury, or reinstatement to the EFL to play in League 2 next season with a new owner- probably not so likely, a few things that should IMO happen now.

Bottom 2 Divisions:

1. A better distribution of cash/solidarity payments.
2. A beefed up fit and proper person test- an independent body if necessary, maybe preferably.
3. Proper enforcement of the 55%-60% limits to go with the increased/better spread distribution in the respective Leagues 1 and 2, and a stipulation that if extra owner investment is to expand the turnover, then it must be a bond/cash as opposed to loaned or borrowed money at these lower levels.
4. Monthly monitoring of accounts by the EFL. At the FIRST sign of distress, an embargo is imposed as a holding position. They cannot make the issue worse therefore- something automatic e.g. late payment of wages for the first time might trigger say a January embargo.

At Championship:

1. A removal of the regulation, or perhaps an amendment- either sale and leaseback of fixed assets no longer count towards FFP or all clubs allowed to do it once. If I had my way, clubs who haven't made efforts in other ways e.g. Aston Villa and mostly Sheffield Wednesday until Joao sold, shouldn't be allowed to have done it. Conditionality would have been interesting, but how enforceable?
2. Total clarity of the regulations and punishment for breaching them. The points tariff is a start but offsetting of losses with stadia sale/leaseback a joke and particularly for those who haven't sold key players- see point one in this.
3. Monthly monitoring for these too, with the soft embargo as a holding position when possible problems arise. Should be automatic e.g. late payment of wages.

This would improve a lot of the current issues- but is the will there?

That's great in its detail.

I would however bring in one additional caveat that will stop the crooks being interested in the first place:

For any future sales of clubs approval will only be given if no charge or debt is allowed against the ground, whether secured or unsecured, and the ground can only be sold if and when an alternative ground of at least identical quality is in place.

Take away the ability to run up debts against the ground and the tap of easy credit is turned off; take away the ability to sell the ground and the asset stripping doesn't work.

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

That's great in its detail.

I would however bring in one additional caveat that will stop the crooks being interested in the first place:

For any future sales of clubs approval will only be given if no charge or debt is allowed against the ground, whether secured or unsecured, and the ground can only be sold if and when an alternative ground of at least identical quality is in place.

Take away the ability to run up debts against the ground and the tap of easy credit is turned off; take away the ability to sell the ground and the asset stripping doesn't work.

Sure there's more to add!

Good plan, no charge or debt, or at least identical quality.

Agreed. Is it always asset stripping though? In the sense of you might get an owner who borrows against the ground to get funding to try to move up the Leagues quickly. Wildly irresponsible of course and shouldn't be allowed, but not necessarily corrupt. Believe that was part of Day's plan and I certainly could envisage a not necessarily cash rich, but ambitious owner doing just that- Dale in fact or someone like him could be a primary candidate for such a stunt- if it wasn't for the aforementioned asset stripping past of course.

However whether it's corruption, looking to make a fast buck or simple ambition turned into grossly irresponsible ownership, yeah agree with your post- it would put off those types of owners for sure.

On another slightly odd note, I wasn't fully aware but it regards Bury and the suspension of fixtures- they played pre season friendlies with mixed results and performances.

It is why I do believe that Shaun Harvey, might have let them have a crack (wholly against good sense) of starting the season! Also the fact that he was a disastrous CEO of the EFL. Would the description of him as an effwit be unfair- to effwits?

Edited September 2, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

That's great in its detail.

I would however bring in one additional caveat that will stop the crooks being interested in the first place:

For any future sales of clubs approval will only be given if no charge or debt is allowed against the ground, whether secured or unsecured, and the ground can only be sold if and when an alternative ground of at least identical quality is in place.

Take away the ability to run up debts against the ground and the tap of easy credit is turned off; take away the ability to sell the ground and the asset stripping doesn't work.

Unfortunately, that'll only push to lending against season ticket sales, future transfer revenue, future ticket revenue etc.

Because of the 'paper' money in the game, I don't think the credit tap will be turned off unless (actually I would say until) those 'sub prime' loans start to collapse when clubs go under - sounds familiar. 

[Eddie Hitler]

38 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Unfortunately, that'll only push to lending against season ticket sales, future transfer revenue, future ticket revenue etc.

Because of the 'paper' money in the game, I don't think the credit tap will be turned off unless (actually I would say until) those 'sub prime' loans start to collapse when clubs go under - sounds familiar. 

It will but the value of these things, especially for the Burys of this world, is not large and will be valueless once the club folds.

[havanatopia]

On 31/08/2019 at 04:39, Northern Red said:

He's talking out of his arse.

I suppose that explains his appalling command of the English language; its garbled and incoherent much like a fart.

On 01/09/2019 at 01:53, BobBobSuperBob said:

Sensible appointment that

Perhaps not for Hill himself though.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Unless the rules have changed or there is something very specific here.

I note that when I have looked up briefly EFL expulsion with other clubs, it has been an EGM of the 72? 

Can someone explain the specificity of the law/regulation here which means that Coventry would've had to have a vote of the 72, Barnet too in the past ie early to mid 1990s- but for Bury, the board can decide!

Something very odd with that.

Edit- Seemingly Brighton in 1997 too!

Still- if they can mess about with the regs like this too, I hope to see a vote on current clubs who have done sale and leasebacks with particular emphasis on Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday! Vote by the 72.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[BobBobSuperBob]

I see the (Very bitter) Sags are claiming that the new consortium who have taken over at Bolton have taken out £40m Of loans to finance the rebirth 

Anyone read anything similar elsewhere ?

( I’d be surprised if they could even secure those size of loans against any assets without personal guarantees )

[EnderMB]

The only logical outcome to all of this would be to do a MK Dons with Bury.

MP's and fans should band together to grant severance pay for the staff affected by Bury's liquidation. Additionally, the mayor should work with the Bury fan club to get a phoenix club set up an unincorporated association, with a charter that dictates that the club is fan owned and the only way to invest money is through membership. This gives Bury the Barcelona/Real Madrid type model where someone cannot own the club.

Once the phoenix club is set up, the existing Bury youth team should be granted first-team contracts with the phoenix club with the sole purpose of playing friendlies across the country for the year. Closed door friendlies happen all the time, so put the phoenix club to use and let the youngsters prove themselves. Finally, the EFL should grant the phoenix club a place in League 2 for next season, on the assumption that they can find a ground to play in. If this involved buying the ground from Steve Dale, then so be it. It will be the only asset he'll have left, and with political and social pressure he'll either sell or be a pariah in the north.

It'll mean a year without competitive football, but to be frank I think the fans would tolerate it if it meant getting their club back, and even though it'll technically be a new club, the new structure will make it all worthwhile and ensure that such a thing can never happen again.

Edited September 3, 2019 by EnderMB

[phantom]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I see the (Very bitter) Sags are claiming that the new consortium who have taken over at Bolton have taken out £40m Of loans to finance the rebirth 

Anyone read anything similar elsewhere ?

( I’d be surprised if they could even secure those size of loans against any assets without personal guarantees )

They are correct @BobBobSuperBob the loans have been taken out by two separate people

[phantom]

36 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

The only logical outcome to all of this would be to do a MK Dons with Bury.

MP's and fans should band together to grant severance pay for the staff affected by Bury's liquidation. Additionally, the mayor should work with the Bury fan club to get a phoenix club set up an unincorporated association, with a charter that dictates that the club is fan owned and the only way to invest money is through membership. This gives Bury the Barcelona/Real Madrid type model where someone cannot own the club.

Once the phoenix club is set up, the existing Bury youth team should be granted first-team contracts with the phoenix club with the sole purpose of playing friendlies across the country for the year. Closed door friendlies happen all the time, so put the phoenix club to use and let the youngsters prove themselves. Finally, the EFL should grant the phoenix club a place in League 2 for next season, on the assumption that they can find a ground to play in. If this involved buying the ground from Steve Dale, then so be it. It will be the only asset he'll have left, and with political and social pressure he'll either sell or be a pariah in the north.

It'll mean a year without competitive football, but to be frank I think the fans would tolerate it if it meant getting their club back, and even though it'll technically be a new club, the new structure will make it all worthwhile and ensure that such a thing can never happen again.

Interesting to read this morning that Steve Dale received £115k in payments from Bury FC to himself this year

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, phantom said:

They are correct @BobBobSuperBob the loans have been taken out by two separate people

Blimey , thanks

I am struggling to read the attatchment

Any idea who the two are ? and whether they are secured against the club or personal guarantees ?

[BobBobSuperBob]

Matt Lawton from Times on Talksport now re Dale & Bury

Very Interesting 

[phantom]

 

41 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Blimey , thanks

I am struggling to read the attatchment

Any idea who the two are ? and whether they are secured against the club or personal guarantees ?

Part of the new owners 

 

[phantom]

4 hours ago, phantom said:

Interesting to read this morning that Steve Dale received £115k in payments from Bury FC to himself this year

Coincidence?

A fraud investigation has been launched involving Bury Football Club, police have confirmed.

Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said it received a report of fraud on 18 June and inquiries were ongoing but no arrests had been made.

The club were expelled from the English Football League (EFL) on 27 August after a late takeover bid from C&N Sporting Risk failed.

Bury were the first club to drop out of the league since Maidstone in 1992.

The Greater Manchester club were members of the EFL for 125 years.

The allegation of fraud was made to GMP exactly one month before current owner Steve Dale reached a Company Voluntary Arrangement to repay the club's creditors 25% of the £9m they owed.

However, the arrangement was dependant on the Shakers being able to play their fixtures this season.

[PHILINFRANCE]

11 minutes ago, phantom said:

Coincidence?

A fraud investigation has been launched involving Bury Football Club, police have confirmed.

Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said it received a report of fraud on 18 June and inquiries were ongoing but no arrests had been made.

The club were expelled from the English Football League (EFL) on 27 August after a late takeover bid from C&N Sporting Risk failed.

Bury were the first club to drop out of the league since Maidstone in 1992.

The Greater Manchester club were members of the EFL for 125 years.

The allegation of fraud was made to GMP exactly one month before current owner Steve Dale reached a Company Voluntary Arrangement to repay the club's creditors 25% of the £9m they owed.

However, the arrangement was dependant on the Shakers being able to play their fixtures this season.

Interesting.

So, is the CVA no longer valid and, if so, how does that affect 'SD's' new company's partial purchase of the debt?

Hopefully, one can but hope, SD has paid £70K for nothing.