Interesting comments from LJ...

[Riaz]

12 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

That is hilarious. Look at overall spend and wage bill. Look , we all have different opinions, that is life. You are happy with LJ, I am not. The football is third world from the 70's, dire, awful, no youth development, buying old pro players, no connection to the youth teams and no footballing identity, we can go on. You are happy , great for you. With his resources and millions spent, and time in the job, I feel the club could be in a far  better place. That so many hate going to games when we are 7th should sound some alarm bells. Something it is not right, and that has nothing to do with what you or I write. It is not about our opinions, it is a fact and needs understanding.There is no unity within the playing side or fans. That has to be worthy of inspection. There is something wrong and we can all do better. 

Oh and Leeds have a positive net spend too. 

And yet he's done better than all the other managers we've had since jimmy lumsden... apart from johnson senior of course...

Done it, without spending the chairman's or clubs money...

What a terrible job he's doing.

[Merrick's Marvels]

5 minutes ago, Riaz said:

And yet he's done better than all the other managers we've had since jimmy lumsden... apart from johnson senior of course...

Done it, without spending the chairman's or clubs money...

What a terrible job he's doing.

You do know it's not just about transfer fees though, don't you? Yes, you do.

Johnson has been allowed to buy players who can command thousands upon thousands of pounds. Per week.

No other manager in an our entire history has been afforded such a luxury.

Yet Johnson has these multi millionaires playing like parks players.

Now do you get it? Of course you do. 

[Riaz]

3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

You do know it's not just about transfer fees though, don't you? Yes, you do.

Johnson has been allowed to buy players who can command thousands upon thousands of pounds. Per week.

No other manager in an our entire history has been afforded such a luxury.

Yet Johnson has these multi millionaires playing like parks players.

Now do you get it? Of course you do. 

Even taking wages into account, he's probably in credit...

[RedRock]

2 minutes ago, Riaz said:

And yet he's done better than all the other managers we've had since jimmy lumsden... apart from johnson senior of course...

Done it, without spending the chairman's or clubs money...

What a terrible job he's doing.

Ermmm. I thought we made thumping great losses for 3 out of the 4 years of his tenure. I don’t think we’ve got much coming through for the forseeable future either that will generate interest from the Premier League. 

No other Manager in the Club’s history has been backed by his Chairman to such a degree with players, coaching staff and management ‘toys’, had the level of output of a well-established Academy, benefitted from inheriting such a talented squad and - not to be underestimated  - benefitted from  a new stadium ‘bounce’. Everything in place for success bar the new training ground, which is underway. 

Now is the time to deliver his side of the bargain success on the pitch. The shambles of performances this season, the lack of passion, drive, cohesion and any idea of pattern of a play - bar trying, and failing, to get the basics right -  ain’t what SL was envisaging I suspect.

[BRISTOL86]

9 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

You do know it's not just about transfer fees though, don't you? Yes, you do.

Johnson has been allowed to buy players who can command thousands upon thousands of pounds. Per week.

No other manager in an our entire history has been afforded such a luxury.

Yet Johnson has these multi millionaires playing like parks players.

Now do you get it? Of course you do. 

‘Playing like parks players’ yet delivered better results than 17/23 of our competition in a fiercely competitive league. It’s one or the other because you don’t get the latter if the former is true. 

The lack of respect that the entire team get at times is sad. 

Are we delivering incredible football? No, but it’s about time people gave a modicum of credit for what has been done, which is take us from relegation candidates to a team not happy with being 7th. 

I think Johnson needs to go in the summer - mainly for his own benefit - but you’d think we were in absolute disarray and staring sown the barrel of relegation the way people carry on on social media/forums, and not two points off of the playoffs with 30 points to be competed for. 

Let’s hope the players don’t give up as easily as the fans do. 

[Riaz]

15 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Ermmm. I thought we made thumping great losses for 3 out of the 4 years of his tenure. I don’t think we’ve got much coming through for the forseeable future either that will generate interest from the Premier League. 

No other Manager in the Club’s history has been backed by his Chairman to such a degree with players, coaching staff and management ‘toys’, had the level of output of a well-established Academy, benefitted from inheriting such a talented squad and - not to be underestimated  - benefitted from  a new stadium ‘bounce’. Everything in place for success bar the new training ground, which is underway. 

Now is the time to deliver his side of the bargain success on the pitch. The shambles of performances this season, the lack of passion, drive, cohesion and any idea of pattern of a play - bar trying, and failing, to get the basics right -  ain’t what SL was envisaging I suspect.

Yes we had tho losses for how many years before Johnson become head coach.

Point is, we have made more in players sold, than johnson has spend. You cant deny that. thats a fact.

So he hasnt really spent any money or "been backed"

[Merrick's Marvels]

11 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

‘Playing like parks players’ yet delivered better results than 17/23 of our competition in a fiercely competitive league. It’s one or the other because you don’t get the latter if the former is true. 

The lack of respect that the entire team get at times is sad. 

Are we delivering incredible football? No, but it’s about time people gave a modicum of credit for what has been done, which is take us from relegation candidates to a team not happy with being 7th. 

I think Johnson needs to go in the summer - mainly for his own benefit - but you’d think we were in absolute disarray and staring sown the barrel of relegation the way people carry on on social media/forums, and not two points off of the playoffs with 30 points to be competed for. 

Let’s hope the players don’t give up as easily as the fans do. 

For the millionth time, the point is not about league position but how we are playing.

And who says anyone's given up?????????

Try arguing the point under the discussion, not some other one that suits you.    

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Psychopomp said:

The biggest blagger in the land, is Lee Johnson and his band, if the ******* had a clue we would easy be top two 

You think our squad is better than West Brom, Fulham and Leeds?! Wow 

[Riaz]

3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

For the millionth time, the point is not about league position but how we are playing.

And who says anyone's given up?????????

Try arguing the point under the discussion, not some other one that suits you.    

managers are judged by results... especially managers of smaller clubs like ours..

[BRISTOL86]

6 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

For the millionth time, the point is not about league position but how we are playing.

And who says anyone's given up?????????

Try arguing the point under the discussion, not some other one that suits you.    

You said we are ‘playing like parks players’ which is simply not true. There’s no way on earth we would be 7th in this league if it were. 

[cidercity1987]

10 minutes ago, RedDave said:

You think our squad is better than West Brom, Fulham and Leeds?! Wow 

Our squad is better than Leeds'.

[BRISTOL86]

7 minutes ago, RedDave said:

You think our squad is better than West Brom, Fulham and Leeds?! Wow 

Hilarious isn’t it. When you take out the three teams that absolutely should be finishing above us - Leeds, Fulham and WBA - you’re left with 20 teams that we’re essentially competing with for 4th-6th. We’re doing better than 17 of those 20 teams and you can make a very strong case that you could be including Forest in the first category, so actually 17 out of 19. 

The only team above us that you can make a real solid case for ‘we should be doing better’ is Preston, and they’re 2 points above us. 

People need to get a grip.

2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Our squad is better than Leeds'.

I think the £6m pa coaching team has to be considered as part of that whole assessment of their squad’s capability. 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

1 hour ago, Red white and red said:

Book 1- Me and my 2 dads

Book 2- The 13th Window 

Book 3- An identity sought 

Book 4- Playing Football Top Trumps With JL.

[And Its Smith]

8 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Our squad is better than Leeds'.

Absolutely deluded. Make a joint 18. Probably 5 city players in it

 

[cidercity1987]

26 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Absolutely deluded. Make a joint 18. Probably 5 city players in it

 

Bentley, Maenpaa, Kalas, Dasilva, Eliasson, Diedhiou, Wells, Afobe,  Benkovic there's 9 for starters.

I'll take Ayling, Douglas, White, Costa, Hernandez, Harrison, Phillips, Kilch, Bamford from them.

 

Bentley, Maenpaa

Ayling, Dasilva, Kalas, White, Benkovic, Douglas

Eliasson, Costa, Phillips, Kilch, Hernandez, Harrison

Diedhiou, Wells, Afobe, Bamford

 

Much more strength in depth at the City also. A snake and deluded I don't think so no matter whether you agree or not.

 

 

[BRISTOL86]

10 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Absolutely deluded. Make a joint 18. Probably 5 city players in it

Bentley, Ayling, White, Cooper, Dasilva, Phillips, Hernandez, Eliasson, Palmer, Costa, Wells was the XI I could think up off the top of my head and that’s some very good Leeds players missing out.

5 at the outside is what I could come up with and one of those has only just joined us. 

[cidercity1987]

2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Bentley, Ayling, White, Cooper, Dasilva, Phillips, Hernandez, Eliasson, Palmer, Costa, Wells

5 at the outside is what I could come up with and one of those has only just joined us. 

He said 18, not 11.

[BRISTOL86]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

He said 18, not 11.

Yes I realised that after I posted it! No doubt we have more quantity in depth but it’s really slim pickings for obvious candidates for improving Leeds best XI in our ranks. 

With the quality of their first team and a multi million pound pa coaching setup, yes they should absolutely be delivering more than an us over 46

[And Its Smith]

30 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Bentley, Maenpaa, Kalas, Dasilva, Eliasson, Diedhiou, Wells, Afobe,  Benkovic there's 9 for starters.

I'll take Ayling, Douglas, White, Costa, Hernandez, Harrison, Phillips, Kilch, Bamford from them.

 

Bentley, Maenpaa

Ayling, Dasilva, Kalas, White, Benkovic, Douglas

Eliasson, Costa, Phillips, Kilch, Hernandez, Harrison

Diedhiou, Wells, Afobe, Bamford

 

Much more strength in depth at the City also.

 

 

 

                  Bentley

Ayling. White Cooper. Dasilva

    Hernandez. Phillips. Klich

    Costa.  Wells.  Harrison 

subs

Maenpaa, Kalas, Dallas, Smith, Elliason, Diedhiou, Bamford

Fair enough, that’s 10 v 8 but look at the starting XI.  8 Leeds players. Hard to argue against that XI as well.  

There is no way we should be above Leeds, Fulham, West Brom or Brentford. 

[Gert Mare]

22 hours ago, spudski said:

So all these players signed having watched us play, spoke to other players who were already playing here, and chose to come here after finding out what it's like here...hmmmm

I can imagine Wells chatting to Brownhill, asking what it's like down here...Brownhill saying...'its Shite, the Coach is clueless and everyone's arguing'...and Well's going...'Sounds great...think I'll sign then'

Truth is probably more to do with frustration and getting annoyed that things aren't necessarily pretty at the moment.

Apart from Huddersfield...you can't knock the lads for effort. They give 100% most of the time and you can see the collective disappointment when they lose.

 

Really? All I can say is . If that’s our players giving 100% effort week in week out then we are in serious serious trouble.

6 hours ago, mozo said:

Is it fair to say that Johnson has instilled a work rate on the pitch that we haven't always had, and that we defend for our lives when under the kosh. Those two aspects of Johnson's team seem to be consistent. 

If you call 2me2u then lump it a great work rate then I’ll get my coat. 
 

I honestly cannot believe what some of our supporters come out with. Still, live and let live I suppose

 

My 3 books:

1) We ourselves down

2) We dust ourselves down again

3) 2 me 2 u, lump it! - A tactical master class from the 8th best young manager

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

You said we are ‘playing like parks players’ which is simply not true. There’s no way on earth we would be 7th in this league if it were. 

It's a figure of speech. But you knew that, didn't you?

A figure of speech to illustrate the point that Johnson is currently getting nowhere near enough - in terms of the way we're playing - out of the most expensively assembled squad in our entire history.

Given the ability in the squad, how much of that ability - as a percentage - do you think we're seeing? 100%? 50%? 20%? It's surely not too controversial to suggest that this group of players can play a damn sight better than they currently are?

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, Riaz said:

managers are judged by results... especially managers of smaller clubs like ours..

Laughable bollox.

Osman delivered us an FA Cup victory at Anfield for goodness sake but his football was despised.

Tony Pulis was judged on results and nothing else??? Don't think so.

The likes of Terry Cooper, Joe Jordan, Danny Wilson, Steve Cotterill are revered for the way their teams won, not just for the winning. It's one of the defining differences between us and the Sags, ffs. They'll put up with any old sh1te. We don't.  

[Fordy62]

Christ. It appears the negative net spend is the only argument left. 
 

1. do we play shit football 75% of the time?

2. Is the team capable of playing well for 90 minutes?

3. Is Johnson getting the best out of this squad?

4. Are we on a downward trajectory?

5. Has Lee Johnson wasted an unprecedented amount of money on incoming transfers when compared with how said players are playing?

If you don’t answer yes, no, no, yes, yes in that order then Quite frankly, you’re deluded. 

[Cidre Monita]

Secret footballer 

As for losing a dressing room, it most definitely does happen and it will come on the back of a manager that changes too much too soon or a manager that just isn't up to the job and is out of his depth. The players will lose respect and stop trying as hard.

[Bristol Oil Services]

9 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Christ. It appears the negative net spend is the only argument left. 
 

1. do we play shit football 75% of the time?

2. Is the team capable of playing well for 90 minutes?

3. Is Johnson getting the best out of this squad?

4. Are we on a downward trajectory?

5. Has Lee Johnson wasted an unprecedented amount of money on incoming transfers when compared with how said players are playing?

If you don’t answer yes, no, no, yes, yes in that order then Quite frankly, you’re deluded. 

Ok, I think I answered yes no yes no no yes yes yes yeeessss!!!! no no no yes! maybe not sure, so I'm definitely confused if not full on delusional...

[Shtanley]

13 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Christ. It appears the negative net spend is the only argument left. 
 

1. do we play shit football 75% of the time?

2. Is the team capable of playing well for 90 minutes?

3. Is Johnson getting the best out of this squad?

4. Are we on a downward trajectory?

5. Has Lee Johnson wasted an unprecedented amount of money on incoming transfers when compared with how said players are playing?

If you don’t answer yes, no, no, yes, yes in that order then Quite frankly, you’re deluded. 

Downward trajectory from 17th to 7th :laugh:

[Fordy62]

10 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Ok, I think I answered yes no yes no no yes yes yes yeeessss!!!! no no no yes! maybe not sure, so I'm definitely confused if not full on delusional...

One fifth delusional. 

6 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Downward trajectory from 17th to 7th

I think I could’ve better specified my time frame TBH. A better question might have been; “do you think we’ll finish 7th or above?”

[BobBobSuperBob]

17 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Christ. It appears the negative net spend is the only argument left. 
 

1. do we play shit football 75% of the time?

2. Is the team capable of playing well for 90 minutes?

3. Is Johnson getting the best out of this squad?

4. Are we on a downward trajectory?

5. Has Lee Johnson wasted an unprecedented amount of money on incoming transfers when compared with how said players are playing?

If you don’t answer yes, no, no, yes, yes in that order then Quite frankly, you’re deluded. 

 

[tin]

3 hours ago, Riaz said:

Yes we had tho losses for how many years before Johnson become head coach.

Point is, we have made more in players sold, than johnson has spend. You cant deny that. thats a fact.

So he hasnt really spent any money or "been backed"

I’m pretty sure Ashton is the one who’s in credit, seeing as he sanctions every transfer deal. 

LJ is paid to coach, motivate, man-manage, oversee tactics, forge an identity and develop players. He’s only delivering on the latter, consistently failing on the rest. 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

We played higher and pressed higher Dave because a total lack of pace threat from Smith & Bradshaw

ie because we could / & it made made sense

I hope I’m wrong , but I’m doubtful this will be a consistent or even regular approach 

 

Quite possibly, and very noticeable that in the second half the distances increased and our performance decreased!!! 

5 hours ago, Shtanley said:

Also helps having Baker and Kalas over Williams. LJ said he chose Pereira over hunt for pace reasons too.

He did, but the team don’t move their distances as a team together.  

4 hours ago, RedDave said:

You think our squad is better than West Brom, Fulham and Leeds?! Wow 

I think those 3 standout too.  But I don’t think there is anything between our squad and Forest, Brentford and Preston...and better than the chasing pack.

And to add to the debate, of course, the likes of Stoke and Boro, should be doing better, we are outperforming them.

But we shouldn’t strive to be better than under-performers.  We should strive to be better than those 3 teams directly above us.

No-one will be more delighted if we win Saturday v Fulham, even more so if LJ shows consistency in team system / selection!!  I am still deflated, but I can be pumped back up....not just for one game, but if we can build momentum.

[Riaz]

1 hour ago, tin said:

I’m pretty sure Ashton is the one who’s in credit, seeing as he sanctions every transfer deal. 

LJ is paid to coach, motivate, man-manage, oversee tactics, forge an identity and develop players. He’s only delivering on the latter, consistently failing on the rest. 

LJ don’t coach the players then? 

He managed Brownhill previously and he would have been his signing and has final say on all transfers.

[NickJ]

7 hours ago, Riaz said:

Johnson Junior has a negative net spend....

Look at the accounts.

[Lrrr]

3 hours ago, tin said:

LJ is paid to coach, motivate, man-manage, oversee tactics, forge an identity and develop players. He’s only delivering on the latter, consistently failing on the rest. 

Not paid to get points on the board then? He's hardly 'failed' in that regard over the last couple of seasons

[Allwaysred]

17 hours ago, glos old boy said:

So you are suggesting that we are now signing players the LJ doesnt want here......you need to lie down, LJ will have a list of players required/wanted, to suggest not is madness. He does find out he cannot manage them however.

Players end up at every club for different reasons and most are guided by agents and behind the scenes deals. Do you believe NW was a top target or was his hand forced as part of the JB deal and had to like even if he wanted to stay at QPR. 

[Riaz]

1 hour ago, NickJ said:

Look at the accounts.

Add up all the transfer fees received since he’s been manager and then add up all the the transfer money spent...

[BobBobSuperBob]

16 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Add up all the transfer fees received since he’s been manager and then add up all the the transfer money spent...

You think that amounts to ‘accounts’ do you ?

You may want to Consider things such as 

Loan Fees

Signing on & associated fees 

Increase in squad wages

Payments due to previous Clubs (Sell ons etc)

..........

 

I take it you are not in business 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Add up all the transfer fees received since he’s been manager and then add up all the the transfer money spent...

If that’s your measure, then fine, but at least acknowledge the bigger picture, which is in its most simple financial transaction:

- not all the transfer fee is actually received, because of sell-on clauses, Webster, Brownhill, Flint (on the flip side we’ve received money for Freeman sell-ons)

- not all of the players sold were recruited by him (on the flip side he will leave players for the next manager to benefit from)

at a slightly more complicated level:

- agent fees

- signing on fees

- bonuses

and then at the full level:

- FFP

- the wage bill that goes with the squad

- the amortisation cost / depreciation of players fee over the contract term

- etc

in the four years LJ has been near the combined losses (inc the one year profit) are likely to be getting close to £50m.  As long as SL can keep City compliant and is willing to support losses around the £10-15m mark each season, then that is cool, but we cannot pretend LJ as head-coach is making a profit year on year.  He is doing his bit along with MA, as part of SL’s strategy, and as a result of “progress” in the league (for the above outlay) SL continues to back him.

Lets hope that progress continues.

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You think that amounts to ‘accounts’ do you ?

You may want to Consider things such as 

Loan Fees

Signing on & associated fees 

Increase in squad wages

Payments due to previous Clubs (Sell ons etc)

..........

 

I take it you are not in business 

Great minds (maybe)

[BS4 on Tour...]

This may have been posted somewhere on here before, apologies if so, but if true it’s interesting ...

 

[YorkshireSection]

On 2 March 2020 at 13:28, Red-Robbo said:

 

I hate defending Lee, but he has made us more money than he's spent. I'll give him that. 

That'll be Ashton's doing.

[BUTOR]

I believe Lee will walk in the summer and it will come out as some sort of mutual consent. 

[weepywall]

6 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

This may have been posted somewhere on here before, apologies if so, but if true it’s interesting ...

 

Where is "box entries" on that chart ? Think we may be top of that !

[NickJ]

7 hours ago, Riaz said:

Add up all the transfer fees received since he’s been manager and then add up all the the transfer money spent...

Oh yes most of the players he inherited were sold for big fees, all down to Johnson, silly me.

And we won't include massively increased wages, signing on fees, wages paid to Chelsea and others for expensive loan signings, or agent commissions, or indeed no doubt the massive difference between Johnson's salary and that of his coaching staff compared with previously.

Yep you are right.  

[CotswoldRed]

1 hour ago, NickJ said:

Oh yes most of the players he inherited were sold for big fees, all down to Johnson, silly me.

And we won't include massively increased wages, signing on fees, wages paid to Chelsea and others for expensive loan signings, or agent commissions, or indeed no doubt the massive difference between Johnson's salary and that of his coaching staff compared with previously.

Yep you are right.  

We can also thank LJ for playing shit with barely a shot, while we have £8m-worth of attacking players (2 players in Wells and Palmer) on the bench. 

[mozo]

8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

This may have been posted somewhere on here before, apologies if so, but if true it’s interesting ...

 

That's pretty damning. It's like we're finding success in the least enjoyable way. But not enough success that it seems worthwhile. 

[Riaz]

9 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You think that amounts to ‘accounts’ do you ?

You may want to Consider things such as 

Loan Fees

Signing on & associated fees 

Increase in squad wages

Payments due to previous Clubs (Sell ons etc)

..........

 

I take it you are not in business 

 

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

If that’s your measure, then fine, but at least acknowledge the bigger picture, which is in its most simple financial transaction:

- not all the transfer fee is actually received, because of sell-on clauses, Webster, Brownhill, Flint (on the flip side we’ve received money for Freeman sell-ons)

- not all of the players sold were recruited by him (on the flip side he will leave players for the next manager to benefit from)

at a slightly more complicated level:

- agent fees

- signing on fees

- bonuses

and then at the full level:

- FFP

- the wage bill that goes with the squad

- the amortisation cost / depreciation of players fee over the contract term

- etc

in the four years LJ has been near the combined losses (inc the one year profit) are likely to be getting close to £50m.  As long as SL can keep City compliant and is willing to support losses around the £10-15m mark each season, then that is cool, but we cannot pretend LJ as head-coach is making a profit year on year.  He is doing his bit along with MA, as part of SL’s strategy, and as a result of “progress” in the league (for the above outlay) SL continues to back him.

Lets hope that progress continues.

Great minds (maybe)

I'm an accountant, so clearly, i know that in the accounts there are other costs.

And i'm fully aware that bristol city, like most clubs are a loss making entity.

Whether the club is losing money or not tho. For what LJ can control, he is in credit. He has sold way more than he has spent. People should remember that.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

This may have been posted somewhere on here before, apologies if so, but if true it’s interesting ...

 

Shots conceded may also be quite bad, but hopefully someone has crunched the numbers.

I can't say it surprises me however, it seems about right- the completions and touches in the box is a new one (for me) but not a happy stat.

We seem to have a good conversion rate though- our saving grace? That and Bentley being up there in the top 4 or 5 saves this season.

[GlastonburyRed]

2 hours ago, weepywall said:

Where is "box entries" on that chart ? Think we may be top of that !

Possibly related to 'very deep completions' 

[Banjo Island]

4 minutes ago, Riaz said:

 

I'm an accountant, so clearly, i know that in the accounts there are other costs.

And i'm fully aware that bristol city, like most clubs are a loss making entity.

Whether the club is losing money or not tho. For what LJ can control, he is in credit. He has sold way more than he has spent. People should remember that.

The only thing that people REMEMBER is walking out of the ground after witnessing yet another diabolocol performancce

[Riaz]

1 hour ago, NickJ said:

Oh yes most of the players he inherited were sold for big fees, all down to Johnson, silly me.

And we won't include massively increased wages, signing on fees, wages paid to Chelsea and others for expensive loan signings, or agent commissions, or indeed no doubt the massive difference between Johnson's salary and that of his coaching staff compared with previously.

Yep you are right.  

Webster? Signed for 2.5 and was pretty average and then we sold him for 20m.

Brownhill? Signed him after managing him at Barnsely. Barely looked championnship standard when his signed and then sold to a top half premier league club.

He turned Bobby Reid into a goalscorer when he was languishing in the reserves as  midfield player.

He may have inherited Flint and Bryan, but they certainly werent top championship players when he took over, so he improved them as players

You need to give him credit, where credit is due.

[SedRA]

8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

This may have been posted somewhere on here before, apologies if so, but if true it’s interesting ...

 

Oof!

I'm not into slating Johnson, but its pretty damning evidence that backs up the main complaints people are having with the way we play. 
 

If you're going to play ugly football you have to get promotion with it (Warnock style), or it just isn't worth it for people. 

[mozo]

5 minutes ago, RedSA said:

Oof!

I'm not into slating Johnson, but its pretty damning evidence that backs up the main complaints people are having with the way we play. 
 

If you're going to play ugly football you have to get promotion with it (Warnock style), or it just isn't worth it for people. 

This is the kind of thing that Gregor is being brave enough to quiz Johnson on (which is why I respect his as our local journo) and I hope he does. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Riaz said:

 

I'm an accountant, so clearly, i know that in the accounts there are other costs.

And i'm fully aware that bristol city, like most clubs are a loss making entity.

Whether the club is losing money or not tho. For what LJ can control, he is in credit. He has sold way more than he has spent. People should remember that.

An accountant ?
 

Wow

Is that the Diane Abbot Accounting Academy 

So you are just dismissing, ignoring  the costs of recruitment that come on top of any transfer fees paid

Creative I must say

So LJ gets the credit for any fees negotiated by Mark Ashton but isn’t responsible for the full cost of any of the numerous new  shiny toys , even the ones that end up spending the majority of their time on the naughty step 

Very creative

 

As an accountant maybe you could you help us with the main annual cost / expenditure for the football Club and explain why , when income has been increased in areas (Stadium catering , hospitality etc) why SL has to continue to bolster the club financially ?

Thanks

[Riaz]

12 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

An accountant ?
 

Wow

Is that the Diane Abbot Accounting Academy 

So you are just dismissing, ignoring  the costs of recruitment that come on top of any transfer fees paid

Creative I must say

So LJ gets the credit for any fees negotiated by Mark Ashton but isn’t responsible for the full cost of any of the numerous new  shiny toys , even the ones that end up spending the majority of their time on the naughty step 

Very creative

 

As an accountant maybe you could you help us with the main annual cost / expenditure for the football Club and explain why , when income has been increased in areas (Stadium catering , hospitality etc) why SL has to continue to bolster the club financially ?

Thanks

Wages and agents fees do come into it, but the club are in a much healthier financial position since LJ has been in charge, you cant deny that.

Of course, Mark Ashton takes some credit too, for his negiotiating skills, but LJ is the person who has overseen the coaching of these players

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Riaz said:

Webster? Signed for 2.5 and was pretty average and then we sold him for 20m.

Brownhill? Signed him after managing him at Barnsely. Barely looked championnship standard when his signed and then sold to a top half premier league club.

He turned Bobby Reid into a goalscorer when he was languishing in the reserves as  midfield player.

He may have inherited Flint and Bryan, but they certainly werent top championship players when he took over, so he improved them as players

You need to give him credit, where credit is due.

Yes, I would give him credit for all the above as well. And continually being required by the business model to sell our better players summer after summer is something I will cut him some slack for - it makes a difficult job even harder. And I dare say that if Warnock - just as an example - had been required to do the same during his career, he wouldn't have a record number of promotions from the Championship to his name, either. Warnock is short-termist with just one goal in mind. Johnson is being asked to do a darn sight more.

But, unsurprisingly, you're now arguing a different point - based on a different interpretation of the word "credit" - than was originally under discussion. You've gone from arguing that Johnson has made the club money (using "credit" to mean finance) to - after your point was comprehensively demolished - arguing that Johnson has improved a handful of players (using "credit" to mean praise).

Disingenuous and laughable backtracking. As per.

2 hours ago, mozo said:

That's pretty damning. It's like we're finding success in the least enjoyable way. But not enough success that it seems worthwhile. 

Treble 20!

1 hour ago, Banjo Island said:

The only thing that people REMEMBER is walking out of the ground after witnessing yet another diabolocol performance

Treble 20!

1 hour ago, RedSA said:

If you're going to play ugly football you have to get promotion with it (Warnock style), or it just isn't worth it for people. 

   One-hundred-and-eighty!

[Riaz]

13 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yes, I would give him credit for all the above as well. And continually being required by the business model to sell our better players summer after summer is something I will cut him some slack for - it makes a difficult job even harder. And I dare say that if Warnock - just as an example - had been required to do the same during his career, he wouldn't have a record number of promotions from the Championship to his name, either. Warnock is short-termist with just one goal in mind. Johnson is being asked to do a darn sight more.

But, unsurprisingly, you're now arguing a different point - based on a different interpretation of the word "credit" - than was originally under discussion. You've gone from arguing that Johnson has made the club money (using "credit" to mean finance) to - after your point was comprehensively demolished - arguing that Johnson has improved a handful of players (using "credit" to mean praise).

Disingenuous and laughable backtracking. As per.

I have not backtacked one bit. He's brought in more than he's spent.

[NickJ]

2 hours ago, Riaz said:

 

I'm an accountant,

No, you're not.

2 hours ago, Riaz said:

Webster? Signed for 2.5 and was pretty average

Webster was never pretty average and whoever identified him as a signing deserves a lot of credit, particularly for the price we paid. 

Nevertheless your notion that Johnson had a significant affect on the fees achieved for the players he inherited is laughably inaccurate. Bryan, Reid and Kelly were developed and coached by the unsung heros of the club, the pitifully paid academy coaches, over 10 years, and also by several managers before Johnson. Reid "languishing in the reserves" is a ridiculous claim, he played a part in several games under Cotterill in the first half of 2015/16 including many starts.

24 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Wages and agents fees do come into it, but the club are in a much healthier financial position since LJ has been in charge, you cant deny that.

 

Look at the accounts, you're an accountant. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

22 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I have not backtacked one bit. He's brought in more than he's spent.

Well yes, that's typical - several posters demolish your point with basic facts but, despite it all, you can't face it so try and brazen it out with yet more fake news and untruths.

Which is a classic example of why the internet should never have been invented in the first place and in my view is - on balance - a force for no good.

Have a nice day.   

[Riaz]

20 minutes ago, NickJ said:

No, you're not.

Webster was never pretty average and whoever identified him as a signing deserves a lot of credit, particularly for the price we paid. 

Nevertheless your notion that Johnson had a significant affect on the fees achieved for the players he inherited is laughably inaccurate. Bryan, Reid and Kelly were developed and coached by the unsung heros of the club, the pitifully paid academy coaches, over 10 years, and also by several managers before Johnson. Reid "languishing in the reserves" is a ridiculous claim, he played a part in several games under Cotterill in the first half of 2015/16 including many starts.

Look at the accounts, you're an accountant. 

Oh i'm not? If you say so

Made a profit last year did we not?

And are you denying the pivtoal role johnson played in making Bobby Reid a 10m player?

13 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Well yes, that's typical - several posters demolish your point with basic facts but, despite it all, you can't face it so try and brazen it out with yet more fake news and untruths.

Which is a classic example of why the internet should never have been invented in the first place and in my view is - on balance - a force for no good.

Have a nice day.   

They havent demolished my point at all. We've gained way more that we have spent.

When LJ came in, it was a loss making entity. Last year we made a huge profit for the first time in how long? and that was down too..... the transfers.

Facts dont lie.

[Riaz]

We've had about 85m in transfer fees since Lee Johnson has been manager.

And he's not spent that amount - nowhere near. I reckon about 70m

[David Brent]

10 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

I believe Lee will walk in the summer and it will come out as some sort of mutual consent. 

No chance would he walk away

[BRISTOL86]

10 minutes ago, David Brent said:

No chance would he walk away

I don’t know. I think his dejection is starting to show lately. I think he knows deep down that there’s a degree of ‘nothing will be good enough’ here so unless we have an absolutely stellar season where we over achieve to a ridiculous degree, he’ll get pelters.

At best we have a lower top six squad. We’re two points off 6th with 10 to play and there are genuine calls for him to be sacked. I wonder if the most fervent or those voices have ever stopped to think how absurd that actually is in the wider context, or how crazy they’d think that was at any other club of our size. 

I do get an element of the ‘entertainment versus league position’ argument, but it’s a results business. And the result of this season is as yet to be confirmed. Only at the end of the season can an objective assessment of performance be made. 

I firmly believe that at any other club than here, he wouldn’t be getting the sort of abuse he gets whilst delivering what he does. I think it’s in his own interest to pursue a new challenge. 

[BTRFTG]

3 hours ago, Riaz said:

 

I'm an accountant, so clearly, i know that in the accounts there are other costs.

And i'm fully aware that bristol city, like most clubs are a loss making entity.

Whether the club is losing money or not tho. For what LJ can control, he is in credit. He has sold way more than he has spent. People should remember that.

Your post assumes Johnson 'controls' the 'ins and outs' at the club. So as an accountant you realise any 'like for like' comparison includes the whole of the lifecycle costs for such contacts. That's why they're reflected that way in the accounts. Each player he signs (from an accounting perspective) is a total liability. Many players are also from a playing perspective, total liabilities. Other than where insured otherwise,  players are, de facto, worthless other than if somebody might later pay to acquire their services and only then if their registration remains in possession of the club. Both are pretty big 'ifs' post Bosman. Consider that and nowhere near is Johnson in credit. 

As an accountant you'll have spotted our wage bill exceeds turnover. Those contractural liabilities fall whether those contracted are required to work or not. You'll have spotted the lifetime contract value of much of the dross Johnson's signed far exceeds any 'transfer value' (sic). If Johnson signs a player for £1m and sells him for £1m two years later having not found a place for him in the side, that's not zero net spend - it's a loss of over £1.5m for the £15k per week we've paid them for the privilege.

[Riaz]

2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Your post assumes Johnson 'controls' the 'ins and outs' at the club. So as an accountant you realise any 'like for like' comparison includes the whole of the lifecycle costs for such contacts. That's why they're reflected that way in the accounts. Each player he signs (from an accounting perspective) is a total liability. Many players are also from a playing perspective, total liabilities. Other than where insured otherwise,  players are, de facto, worthless other than if somebody might later pay to acquire their services and only then if their registration remains in possession of the club. Both are pretty big 'ifs' post Bosman. Consider that and nowhere near is Johnson in credit. 

As an accountant you'll have spotted our wage bill exceeds turnover. Those contractural liabilities fall whether those contracted are required to work or not. You'll have spotted the lifetime contract value of much of the dross Johnson's signed far exceeds any 'transfer value' (sic). If Johnson signs a player for £1m and sells him for £1m two years later having not found a place for him in the side, that's not zero net spend - it's a loss of over £1.5m for the £15k per week we've paid him for the privilege.

But i'm looking at this from a football point of view.

When managers dont spend anything on transfer fees, people dont speak about the wages spent.

If you included that in the analysing managers performance in transfer market, no manager in history would be "in credit"

Saying he has a big wage budget at his disposal, is a very fair comment, but to add in wages, is totally disingenuous

[BTRFTG]

15 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I firmly believe that at any other club than here, he wouldn’t be getting the sort of abuse he gets whilst delivering what he does.

At any other club he wouldn't have been given the resource, latitude and abiding patience he's been afforded here.  Lest not forget, he haan't actually achieved anything in his career, playing or managerial. Johnson and his P45 would have been out of the door years back.

And before anybody goes down 'highly touted', 'next great thing' route, here's a couple of names from the past who had pretty much the same said of them but who quickly fell into the 'where are they now category':

Danny Wilson

Steve Cotterill

[Kid in the Riot]

53 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Webster was never pretty average and whoever identified him as a signing deserves a lot of credit, particularly for the price we paid. 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Nick, but it was Lee Johnson!

LJ would let Flint go on the basis SL delivered Webster as his replacement. He was no. 1 on LJ's list of replacements.

The medical team/strength and conditioning team also deserve a lot of credit though, they put Webster on a special training regime which got him into the best shape he'd been in his entire career. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

....I dare say that if Warnock - just as an example - had been required to do the same during his career, he wouldn't have a record number of promotions from the Championship to his name, either...

Warnock doesn’t have a record number of promotions from the championship to his name - Steve Bruce has more ...

[BS4 on Tour...]

30 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I firmly believe that at any other club than here, he wouldn’t be getting the sort of abuse he gets whilst delivering what he does. I think it’s in his own interest to pursue a new challenge. 

What ‘abuse’?

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

And I dare say that if Warnock - just as an example - had been required to do the same during his career, he wouldn't have a record number of promotions from the Championship to his name, either.

 

55 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Well yes, that's typical - several posters demolish your point with basic facts but, despite it all, you can't face it so try and brazen it out with yet more fake news and untruths.

Which is a classic example of why the internet should never have been invented in the first place and in my view is - on balance - a force for no good.

 

3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Warnock doesn’t have a record number of promotions from the championship to his name - Steve Bruce has more ...

God bless the internet. 

[BTRFTG]

7 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Saying he has a big wage budget at his disposal, is a very fair comment, but to add in wages, is totally disingenuous

Then all I can say is with that logic I'm thankful you aren't my accountant.

You're also incorrect in stating all managers would fail the credit test. Many of the 'big' clubs today, their assets (tangible and non-tangible,) are the result of extraordinary managers taking them to that level. As and example: Forbes estimate Liverpool to be worth somewhere in the region of £2bn following their World Club Champions success. That's quite a sum for the lower half of the second tier side of my youth and owes everything to a succession of great managers who advanced that club beyond all recognition.

[Lrrr]

6 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

he haan't actually achieved anything in his career

How many championship managers have?

Mowbray, Bowyer (Player),  Cocu, Parker (player), Bielsa, Woodgate (player), Neil (promotion with parachute payments), Bilic

so perhaps a third of the teams have a manager have a team who has achieved something as a player or manager, so its not like the division is swarming with managers who have won something or got a promotion