Semenyo is not a striker they score goals

[Better Red]

13 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Semenyo is our most creative player and is not a striker. I can’t understand why he is being called out for a lack of goals when he is still learning his trade and is still our most creative player from the wing.

 

Martin is actually a striker and currently offering neither goals or assists.

Lack (No) of goals = Seymenyo, Martin and COD 3 of our front 4 at one point last night. 3 goals in 80 games....
 

Hard to my finger out why we don’t score goals....  If only we paid a manger and multiple coaches to work that sort of thing out....
 

Even wingers have to chip in with at least 6 a season if they can’t then we move them on and find ones who can. Otherwise we will never progress. 
 

 

[GlastonburyRed]

Oh for a Super Scotty Murray on the wing these days!!!

[Bazooka Joe]

We need someone like Jamal Lowe, a young striker with confidence, energy, pace who score goals.

He would have been a player for now and the future.

Why didn't we put in a decent bid for him?

Instead we went for Chris Martin, an end-of-career player.

That just about sums up our ambition.

 

 

[Tipps69]

On 18/12/2020 at 22:25, Better Red said:

Another game and no goals...

Not wishing to say I told you so but I told you so....

And how many goals has Martin scored? 

[Son of Fred]

On 30/11/2020 at 09:43, daored said:

Do you think an option with Semenyo could be in a 3-4-1-2 formation. Play him in front of two ideally Bakinson & Nagy and behind Wells & Martin. Give him license to drift left / right. We’re clearly lacking creativity and just wonder giving him a free role may be worth considering ?

He's not a Championship quality 'striker'...full stop.

You can dress him up any way you wish but the harsh reality is.

If we ever have 'striking' options worthy of progression then this bloke doesn't make a seatwarmer.

 

[Major Isewater]

On 19/12/2020 at 10:26, Lanterne Rouge said:

One last night was a case in point and probably summed up why he drives you mad. He has a great run, gets to the edge of the box and then blasts wildly over when the ball was a simple pass to an unmarked Wells to his right.

The look on Nahki`s face told it`s own story.

He obviously feels under pressure to get a goal .

He needs to chill as he is doing a good job and goals will come.

 He is an elegant player to watch and will be a big success. 

[Better Red]

6 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

And how many goals has Martin scored? 

Not enough.... Again strikers who don’t score 12+ Just like wingers who don’t get circa 6 move them on..... and find ones who can

[Better Red]

On 18/12/2020 at 22:25, Better Red said:

Another game and no goals...

Not wishing to say I told you so but I told you so....

Not wishing to say I told you so but I told you so....

Another week and no goals.

Is he a Striker? - No

Is he a winger? - No

He is ? .... Over rated

[Lrrr]

Unlucky with the chance blocked on the line, however he was excellent at creating space in congested areas deeper in the pitch, unlocked pockets of space where he could play players through or link play. The lad is about to turn 21, there is definitely a championship player in there if he can compose himself in front of goal rather than go for power. 

[Better Red]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Well he played on the wing today. Not sure why he isn't a winger when he protects the full back well, and gets the ball wide and beats players fairly regularly.

I think he is actually underrated by some. Some things he does on the ball is ridiculously good. I think he will go right to the top.

I am sure his finishing can improve. He was very unlucky with that one which was blocked.

Strikers can improve their finishing, especially from his age.

I think back to Luis Suarez in his first season for Liverpool, he missed so many chances.

I am sure there are other examples of players improving massively in their finishing ability. 

Players generally improve in areas of their game as they get older. I don't see why Semenyo can't improve with more experience and more coaching.

Wingers get wide and cross the ball. 

I am pretty sure he did not do it once in 90 mins - so does me not a winger either

[Ivorguy]

11 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Goodbye? You would let him go? Don't you think someone so young could improve?

Just the first comparison that came into my head. A top top striker who once missed a lot of chances before improving a lot in his finishing the next season. Not that bad a comparison, as it shows even players who end up world class may have once missed a lot of chances.

Don’t believe he will ever be a top striker.  No evidence of that.

More likely, He will drop down the divisions just like Wes Burns.

We need to replace in January if possible.

[Better Red]

Another week and no goals....  Not saying I told you so but....

[Phileas Fogg]

8 hours ago, Better Red said:

Another week and no goals....  Not saying I told you so but....

Many on here, myself included, would've been very happy to sell Bobby Reid for £500k or less up until 2017 when he was 24 years of age. Young players need time. What's great about Semenyo is he has the untrainable physical attributes for the modern game. He's fast, athletic, tall and powerful. He has a decent footballing brain too.

Composure and positioning can be trained and generally comes with experience. Semenyo doesn't have a typical academy schooling and it shows at times. It'll come. 

A good comparison is Tyrone Mings. I've heard this from someone who used to coach at Chippenham and knows his family. He's a good comparison as he had a fairly similar trajectory. He was playing non league football until about 19 but had all the physical attributes for the top. Ipswich, and later Bournemouth, identified this. They knew they could train the footballing side, but what he had was the unteachable athletic advantages for the modern game. A few years later and he's a regular Prem player and has England caps. Bournemouth also signed Lloyd Kelly partly based on this who was identified as having perfect athletic/physical attributes for the modern game. 

This desire to say "I told you so" about young players is strange. We've seen it this season with Morrell, Massengo and Semenyo.. it's also starting to creep in with Bakinson. Just give young players time to develop and improve. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Phileas Fogg

[Major Isewater]

On 26/12/2020 at 18:35, JonDolman said:

Goodbye? You would let him go? Don't you think someone so young could improve?

Just the first comparison that came into my head. A top top striker who once missed a lot of chances before improving a lot in his finishing the next season. Not that bad a comparison, as it shows even players who end up world class may have once missed a lot of chances.

Yannick Bolasie mark 2 . 
 

[Better Red]

On 30/12/2020 at 08:16, Phileas Fogg said:

Many on here, myself included, would've been very happy to sell Bobby Reid for £500k or less up until 2017 when he was 24 years of age. Young players need time. What's great about Semenyo is he has the untrainable physical attributes for the modern game. He's fast, athletic, tall and powerful. He has a decent footballing brain too.

Composure and positioning can be trained and generally comes with experience. Semenyo doesn't have a typical academy schooling and it shows at times. It'll come. 

A good comparison is Tyrone Mings. I've heard this from someone who used to coach at Chippenham and knows his family. He's a good comparison as he had a fairly similar trajectory. He was playing non league football until about 19 but had all the physical attributes for the top. Ipswich, and later Bournemouth, identified this. They knew they could train the footballing side, but what he had was the unteachable athletic advantages for the modern game. A few years later and he's a regular Prem player and has England caps. Bournemouth also signed Lloyd Kelly partly based on this who was identified as having perfect athletic/physical attributes for the modern game. 

This desire to say "I told you so" about young players is strange. We've seen it this season with Morrell, Massengo and Semenyo.. it's also starting to creep in with Bakinson. Just give young players time to develop and improve. 

Seymeno weekly update on ‘I told you so’ 

Game 20 something goals = 0

I told you so....  

[robin_unreliant]

4 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Seymeno weekly update on ‘I told you so’ 

Game 20 something goals = 0

I told you so....  

It's times like this when I miss the old aubergine. 

[Sheltons Army]

6 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Seymeno weekly update on ‘I told you so’ 

Game 20 something goals = 0

I told you so....  

thanks Pep

Managing Cadbury Heath U6’s appears to have gone to your head

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Better Red said:

Seymeno weekly update on ‘I told you so’ 

Game 20 something goals = 0

I told you so....  

wow.  Well done you!

Yet for many (me included) he was our best player yesterday.

For all my criticism of O’Dowda over the while, I’ve never wanted anything more than for him to come good and fulfil the potential he has.  He bloody winds me up, but I’ve never wanted a player to fail to prove my judgement right.

What a fan.

[Better Red]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

wow.  Well done you!

Yet for many (me included) he was our best player yesterday.

For all my criticism of O’Dowda over the while, I’ve never wanted anything more than for him to come good and fulfil the potential he has.  He bloody winds me up, but I’ve never wanted a player to fail to prove my judgement right.

What a fan.

It’s not about being a fan. It’s about saying what you see.

The real question is if I can see that why can’t the coaches. Maybe the can and maybe they have tried to improve that side of his game but he still does not like scoring. 

On O’Dowda another player who plays in a front line and does not score.

Have they booth played well ? Yes but and it’s a big but they don’t score goals. Not a few - None 

If we as a club want to progress then they have start to score. If not move them on.  If that means they both leave them so be it. 

I want the best for the club and sometimes that means making hard decisions.

Massengo another one if you listen to people on hear he would be in the team. Just not good enough. I have know idea what they have seen this year. When everyone is fit won’t even be in the squad.
 

Yesterday it was Adelakun and again not going to make at this level.  Offered nothing and got dragged off.
 

Lets be honest and say what we see not what we want to see.

Not sure what the problem is I said he ain’t got a goal him at this level and as of now I am right. Happy not really I would love to have been wrong but I am not.

It’s not about being negative it’s about honest and saying what you see.
 

As for a fan - Yes

 

 

[DaveF]

3 hours ago, Better Red said:

Seymeno weekly update on ‘I told you so’ 

Game 20 something goals = 0

I told you so....  

He doesn't play as a striker though, he plays as a winger?

[Better Red]

1 hour ago, DaveF said:

He doesn't play as a striker though, he plays as a winger?

That was pretty much my original point. He ain’t a striker as he will never score goals.

The only problem he is now a winger who dont score.. That ain’t what we need another player who can’t score. The squad is full of them.... 

I think him and O’dawda must be something like 60 plus games and zero goals.  Even I know that does not sound right for a winger.

[Davefevs]

Semenyo has two goals this season btw (and 6 assists).

[Phileas Fogg]

12 hours ago, Better Red said:

Seymeno weekly update on ‘I told you so’ 

Game 20 something goals = 0

I told you so....  

Are you admitting here that you have a desire to say 'I told you so'?

You've completely missed the point or misunderstood the obvious point in my post - give young players time. 

Your point of view is just reactionary and naïve - and that's being kind!

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Phileas Fogg

[SecretSam]

On 28/11/2020 at 16:14, bexhill reds said:

I’d agree with that to, drop the shoulder, knock it past the full back, sprint onto the ball and knock it into Robbie Turner, who chests it down for Taylor to knock it in, and then making your way from the back to the front of the shed.... That was my football when I was 16...

:laugh:, as often as not, Smith's crosses ended up hitting a bus outside the ground.

[SecretSam]

On 28/11/2020 at 15:36, big dosser said:

the words traditional winger is the problem in todays game there is no traditional wingers anymore due to the way sides play,how many times now do we all scream at the tv to whip the ball in and it gets passed back.i feel football is turning into a chess match.bring back alan walsh

Alan Walsh was a striker that Cooper converted to a winger. And he last played when I was in my late-teens/early 20s.

I am 51 now.

Let's look forward (sic), not back.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Alan Walsh was a striker that Cooper converted to a winger. And he last played when I was in my late-teens/early 20s.

I am 51 now.

Let's look forward (sic), not back.

My favourite City player.

[TonyTonyTony]

9 hours ago, Better Red said:

 He ain’t a striker as he will never score goals.

What utter nonsense. Semenyo is probably our most creative spark at the moment. You can see him growing every game - it wouldnt surprise me to see him banging them in once his confidence is up and he has hit the back of the net a few times. 

At the beginning of his career Marcus Rashford was criticized for not scoring and labelled a winger. 

Semenyo is so young it is absurd to label him as you are doing. Its almost like you want him to fail, so you can say "i told you so". Pathetic really

Edited January 12, 2021 by TonyTonyTony

[RedRock]

11 hours ago, Better Red said:

It’s not about being a fan. It’s about saying what you see.

The real question is if I can see that why can’t the coaches. Maybe the can and maybe they have tried to improve that side of his game but he still does not like scoring. 

On O’Dowda another player who plays in a front line and does not score.

Have they booth played well ? Yes but and it’s a big but they don’t score goals. Not a few - None 

If we as a club want to progress then they have start to score. If not move them on.  If that means they both leave them so be it. 

I want the best for the club and sometimes that means making hard decisions.

Massengo another one if you listen to people on hear he would be in the team. Just not good enough. I have know idea what they have seen this year. When everyone is fit won’t even be in the squad.
 

Yesterday it was Adelakun and again not going to make at this level.  Offered nothing and got dragged off.
 

Lets be honest and say what we see not what we want to see.

Not sure what the problem is I said he ain’t got a goal him at this level and as of now I am right. Happy not really I would love to have been wrong but I am not.

It’s not about being negative it’s about honest and saying what you see.
 

As for a fan - Yes

 

 

Agree, in general, but a very few players are worth persevering with. Semenyo is a possible candidate imo.

The problem with the Bobby Reid example is for every Bobby there are at least forty who still won’t make it, even by the age of 89 and playing every week.

Our player development strategy is not sufficiently ruthless at identifying and rejecting those who are not good enough. This breeds complacency, in turn, that supresses rapid development of player potential imo. 

 

 

[tin]

It was interesting watching him on the right (I refuse to use the term 'wing' because he almost always tried to drift inside) against Pompey. Because of that, I think he's pretty easy to defend against if you show him inside and ask him to shoot from distance, often with his weaker foot. 

He's far more effective getting to the byline on the left and firing across goal, that how he's got most of his assists so far this season but he seems reluctant to do it. He has all the raw attributes to be a decent player, but he's not a natural finisher and it frustrates me when he chooses to shoot when a teammate's in a better position to receive a pass. The lack of a football brain is pretty obvious, but he's not the finished product. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by tin

[SecretSam]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My favourite City player.

Mine is God Taylor, but that was many years ago. It's a different game now, more technical, much faster, better pitches, different balls (oo-err). 

If we're looking back to that era for a player we could do with now, I would suggest Dave Rennie. Or maybe Shelton.

[B1ackbird]

20 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Mine is God Taylor, but that was many years ago. It's a different game now, more technical, much faster, better pitches, different balls (oo-err). 

If we're looking back to that era for a player we could do with now, I would suggest Dave Rennie. Or maybe Shelton.

Shelts would be good me thinks. Antoine blazing over the bar can be frustrating but having shots to score 1 or 2 Worldies a season is a good return?!? Hopefully. 

Clive Whitehead used to cut inside and hit it as hard as he could, sometimes ending up in the Park (not the end) 

[Phileas Fogg]

52 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Agree, in general, but a very few players are worth persevering with. Semenyo is a possible candidate imo.

The problem with the Bobby Reid example is for every Bobby there are at least forty who still won’t make it, even by the age of 89 and playing every week.

Our player development strategy is not sufficiently ruthless at identifying and rejecting those who are not good enough. This breeds complacency, in turn, that supresses rapid development of player potential imo. 

Of course, I'm not advocating endless patience and time for young players - it's unrealistic. For example I think we're approaching the stage of their careers where we perhaps need to make tough decisions about the likes of Vyner and Moore if we want to push forwards as a club. 

Bobby Reid is actually a really good example because he absolutely was someone who was in 'last chance saloon'. He was 24 almost 25 before he came good and we'd persevered with him for ages. I am not saying we should extend the same patience with every single young player, but he's such an outlier it highlights how young players develop and different rates. 

My main point about Semenyo is that we're lucky we have a player who has all the untrainable assets - Reid didn't. He's fairly small and slight, that's not necessarily a bad thing for a footballer - but in the modern game it's generally better to be taller and athletic; especially as a forward. That adds even more weight behind why Semenyo should be persevered with. 

Clearly, it would be better if he was scoring goals. I am certain it'll come. People need to ease off him a little and tame their desire to be 'proven right' so they can say 'I told you so' on OTIB. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Phileas Fogg

[2015]

Give Semenyo a chance, he will score goals for us in the future I think. Strikers/Attacking players, especially young ones need to be given the opportunity to show what they can do, it's only half a season. 

We, as a club in the past few years have been too quickly to write off attacking players who have gone on to do well - Woodrow, Robinson, Kent to name but a few.

He has done well this season in a poor team imo, he will get better

[Alessandro]

I can understand the frustration with Semenyo - he looks so good at times and has all the attributes - as I said in the match day thread “Everything but the goal!”

Fine to ask if he is a natural goal scorer but you’ve got to then ask can he learn and improve through coaching and experience.

I’m no-where near writing him off.

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I can understand the frustration with Semenyo - he looks so good at times and has all the attributes - as I said in the match day thread “Everything but the goal!”

Fine to ask if he is a natural goal scorer but you’ve got to then ask can he learn and improve through coaching and experience.

I’m no-where near writing him off.

My instinct is that he can. My big point in defence of him is that he has the uncoachable physical attributes already - and those are things you're either born with or you're not. 

Not coming from a typical academy background he's not going to be as polished as others who were - sometimes though coming from a less conventional route can be an advantage (see Trundle) as they don't lose the instinctive 'street footballer' elements of their game. 

I think the attributes of goalscoring - positioning, finishing, general awareness of attacking play - can be trained. My prediction is that if he continues getting regular games and stays here then he'll be our main goalscoring forward within 2 seasons. 

 

[TonyTonyTony]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think the attributes of goalscoring - positioning, finishing, general awareness of attacking play - can be trained. My prediction is that if he continues getting regular games and stays here then he'll be our main goalscoring forward within 2 seasons. 

I agree with the first part. Its also about game experience, and developing a calmness about finishing which only comes with match experience and time on the pitch

[LondonBristolian]

11 hours ago, Better Red said:

That was pretty much my original point. He ain’t a striker as he will never score goals.

The only problem he is now a winger who dont score.. That ain’t what we need another player who can’t score. The squad is full of them.... 

I think him and O’dawda must be something like 60 plus games and zero goals.  Even I know that does not sound right for a winger.

I feel I have been proven similarly right on Louis Britton. I knew he'd never make it in the first team and I must be right because he is currently playing non-league football at Stockport.

Obviously far more foolish posters than I will reply with absurd comments such as "he's only 19" or "give him a bit of time FFS" but that's obvious nonsense. I can judge a young player's entire career trajectory based on right now and say that I told everyone so. 

[LondonBristolian]

Incidentally when Theirry Henry was Semenyo's age, he had scored 19 times in 94 league games. Better than Semenyo but still evidence that 21 is very young to judge a player. 

[IAmNick]

I agree with people saying he needs time on the pitch and a bit of perseverance - but do you think the Championship is the right place for that?

Ideally for me he'd be at a L1 club (top 6 preferably) and playing most games for them this season.

[hinsleburg]

I've been really impressed with Semenyo this year compared to what we saw previously when he played for us.

Ideally, I think he would best be utilised as an Impact sub currently, I think him running at tired defences for a shorter period of time would benefit him and the team a lot more. But the issue with that is we have nobody else who offers us the pace and power that he does from the start, so unless we went back to 532 I feel like he has to play. The issue with 532 for me is the midfield currenrtly, if we assume that Nagy has to play on current form and likely Bakinson due to his deeper lying nature who takes the 3rd spot?

Massengo would offer energy and feel like he needs a role where he can harass and press players as opposed to being the holding player like he was at the start of the season. Think with a run of games  he could be very effective but currently he's not offering enough to be given a run of games...

Palmer, if fit, would offer the creativity and 'x factor' that would be missing without Semenyo. Contrary to popular opinion I also don't believe he's lazy and felt at the start of last season he offered a LOT defensively and covered a lot of ground. Obviously then he was out of the side and we didn't really see that again from him, in a weird way I think he was probably told to go on and NOT press/harass and try to be in space for breakaways for when we won the ball back. As mentioned elsewhere think Palmer is reliant on players around him to be effective so Wells would need to play however the lack of width with JD injured would limit his passing opportunities and I guess lead to giving the ball away/taking too long.

With all that in mind I'd quite like to see a Midfield 3 of Vyner, Nagy and Bakinson. Gives Bakinson a bit more freedom and potentially he can be that more creative outlet with Nagy moving the ball quickly and buzzing about.

Think those 3 in midfield gives us the option to play 532/352 without Semenyo or 433 with him.

For me, I'd be tempted to go back to 532 with Mawson back and use Semenyo as a plan B. Think there is a definite player in there but his game time needs to be managed to ensure he's as effective as possible whilst on the pitch. Right now I see him as more of a winger than a central striker so to have the option of changing formation mid game is a big positve for Holden and hopeully he can find a way to utilise that, and Semenyo as effectively as possible.

If he does get a goal, I think he could blow up in the best possible way.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, RedRock said:

Agree, in general, but a very few players are worth persevering with. Semenyo is a possible candidate imo.

The problem with the Bobby Reid example is for every Bobby there are at least forty who still won’t make it, even by the age of 89 and playing every week.

Our player development strategy is not sufficiently ruthless at identifying and rejecting those who are not good enough. This breeds complacency, in turn, that supresses rapid development of player potential imo. 

 

 

With Bobby there were probably some who thought he was worth persevering that bit longer because he was under-sized.  Even as a kid he was held back because he was small.  I saw the season before the potential when he scored 4 in the opening 10 games from midfield.  He was in Tomlin’s wavelength but got sacrificed because Tomlin was too much of a luxury to have both.

1 hour ago, tin said:

It was interesting watching him on the right (I refuse to use the term 'wing' because he almost always tried to drift inside) against Pompey. Because of that, I think he's pretty easy to defend against if you show him inside and ask him to shoot from distance, often with his weaker foot. 

He's far more effective getting to the byline on the left and firing across goal, that how he's got most of his assists so far this season but he seems reluctant to do it. He has all the raw attributes to be a decent player, but he's not a natural finisher and it frustrates me when he chooses to shoot when a teammate's in a better position to receive a pass. The lack of a football brain is pretty obvious, but he's not the finished product. 

I think he is actually left footed.  I think he’s comfortable on his right too, but favours his left.  His control and skills / dribbles are predominantly left footed.

I prefer him on the left, but on Sunday he was really good on the right and hardly involved on the left.

1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

Mine is God Taylor, but that was many years ago. It's a different game now, more technical, much faster, better pitches, different balls (oo-err). 

If we're looking back to that era for a player we could do with now, I would suggest Dave Rennie. Or maybe Shelton.

Ooooooh, now there’s a pairing we could do with now.  And also if we are talking about CB playing CM then as a City fan, Rennie is the benchmark.

44 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Of course, I'm not advocating endless patience and time for young players - it's unrealistic. For example I think we're approaching the stage of their careers where we perhaps need to make tough decisions about the likes of Vyner and Moore if we want to push forwards as a club. 

Bobby Reid is actually a really good example because he absolutely was someone who was in 'last chance saloon'. He was 24 almost 25 before he came good and we'd persevered with him for ages. I am not saying we should extend the same patience with every single young player, but he's such an outlier it highlights how young players develop and different rates. 

My main point about Semenyo is that we're lucky we have a player who has all the untrainable assets - Reid didn't. He's fairly small and slight, that's not necessarily a bad thing for a footballer - but in the modern game it's generally better to be taller and athletic; especially as a forward. That adds even more weight behind why Semenyo should be persevered with. 

Clearly, it would be better if he was scoring goals. I am certain it'll come. People need to ease off him a little and tame their desire to be 'proven right' so they can say 'I told you so' on OTIB. 

With Bobby if we ignore that he made his debut in the Championship pre-relegation, in effect he was trying to breakthrough whilst the club was also improving....in effect the goalposts (no pun) kept moving.  He eventually caught up in 16/17 with much more regular involvement, then went stellar on us in 17/18, coupled with a positional change.  I still think he would’ve had a good (albeit not so good) season had he still played in midfield, but I’m glad he did well up top.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, hinsleburg said:

I've been really impressed with Semenyo this year compared to what we saw previously when he played for us.

Ideally, I think he would best be utilised as an Impact sub currently, I think him running at tired defences for a shorter period of time would benefit him and the team a lot more. But the issue with that is we have nobody else who offers us the pace and power that he does from the start, so unless we went back to 532 I feel like he has to play. The issue with 532 for me is the midfield currenrtly, if we assume that Nagy has to play on current form and likely Bakinson due to his deeper lying nature who takes the 3rd spot?

Massengo would offer energy and feel like he needs a role where he can harass and press players as opposed to being the holding player like he was at the start of the season. Think with a run of games  he could be very effective but currently he's not offering enough to be given a run of games...

Palmer, if fit, would offer the creativity and 'x factor' that would be missing without Semenyo. Contrary to popular opinion I also don't believe he's lazy and felt at the start of last season he offered a LOT defensively and covered a lot of ground. Obviously then he was out of the side and we didn't really see that again from him, in a weird way I think he was probably told to go on and NOT press/harass and try to be in space for breakaways for when we won the ball back. As mentioned elsewhere think Palmer is reliant on players around him to be effective so Wells would need to play however the lack of width with JD injured would limit his passing opportunities and I guess lead to giving the ball away/taking too long.

With all that in mind I'd quite like to see a Midfield 3 of Vyner, Nagy and Bakinson. Gives Bakinson a bit more freedom and potentially he can be that more creative outlet with Nagy moving the ball quickly and buzzing about.

Think those 3 in midfield gives us the option to play 532/352 without Semenyo or 433 with him.

For me, I'd be tempted to go back to 532 with Mawson back and use Semenyo as a plan B. Think there is a definite player in there but his game time needs to be managed to ensure he's as effective as possible whilst on the pitch. Right now I see him as more of a winger than a central striker so to have the option of changing formation mid game is a big positve for Holden and hopeully he can find a way to utilise that, and Semenyo as effectively as possible.

If he does get a goal, I think he could blow up in the best possible way.

What a good post

[JoeAman08]

He has just turned 21 ffs! He has no academy upbringing so is behind in those terms too. All that and he is our top creator in terms of assists. 
 

For me, the game is too quick for him at the minute. The more he plays the more it slows down. Anyone who has played any sport knows what I mean. It can feel chaotic at times and always feels like you have half a second to react. Over time when you work on it more and replay situations over on your head, that half a second turns into more time than it once did. It allows more time to make decisions. No guarantee it gets to a level where Semenyo is a 20 goal scorer mind you but it will get to the point where he contributes goals. 
 

I said a few weeks back he reminds me of Raheem Sterling a bit. Not the talent level but how people perceive their games. At Liverpool he was a clear talent but no one would have thought he’d score 25-30 goals a season. A lot of that was Pep for sure but it goes to show how much players can improve between their early and mid 20s. Bobby Reid another fantastic example. Some will say these are possibly exceptions to the rule but there are examples all across Europe. 
 

I can’t say for sure Antoine will ever be a top level championship player or premier league calibre. I can say he has all the physical and technical attributes to do so. It is now down to a couple things.

Coaching will be a big part of his development. We brought in people for this. Other than goals Antoine has developed a lot more to his game than we once saw. 
 

Then his mental strength. AS needs to keep working and this is the hard part. He needs to want to be a premier league player. He needs to be able to take the coaching and apply it to games.

He needs time. He needs this season and he will need next. Maybe after then we can start thinking time to move on. This for sure is not the time to get impatient with him. 
 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

40 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

With Bobby there were probably some who thought he was worth persevering that bit longer because he was under-sized.  Even as a kid he was held back because he was small.  I saw the season before the potential when he scored 4 in the opening 10 games from midfield.  He was in Tomlin’s wavelength but got sacrificed because Tomlin was too much of a luxury to have both.

I think he is actually left footed.  I think he’s comfortable on his right too, but favours his left.  His control and skills / dribbles are predominantly left footed.

I prefer him on the left, but on Sunday he was really good on the right and hardly involved on the left.

Ooooooh, now there’s a pairing we could do with now.  And also if we are talking about CB playing CM then as a City fan, Rennie is the benchmark.

With Bobby if we ignore that he made his debut in the Championship pre-relegation, in effect he was trying to breakthrough whilst the club was also improving....in effect the goalposts (no pun) kept moving.  He eventually caught up in 16/17 with much more regular involvement, then went stellar on us in 17/18, coupled with a positional change.  I still think he would’ve had a good (albeit not so good) season had he still played in midfield, but I’m glad he did well up top.

Interestingly coaches have had faith in Reid for years. At his age group in the academy, he was kept behind a year quite often due to his size. The coaches rated him as comfortably the best talent on the books so persevered with him. 

I know a player who was in Bobby's age group who could never understand why Reid was given such patience when other players who he rated (such as Scott Wilson) didn't make the grade. Also demonstrates sometimes that players don't always 'know' - understandable perhaps considering they were teenagers at the time - and that some coaches do know what they're talking about even if results take a while to come to fruition. 

There were a few really good coaches at the academy level during that time who knew their stuff, no idea how many are about now. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Phileas Fogg

[Top Robin]

He is DEVELOPING into a very good player. Still young and will eventually iron out the mistakes of inexperience. Stick with him and he will only get better.

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

I agree with people saying he needs time on the pitch and a bit of perseverance - but do you think the Championship is the right place for that?

Ideally for me he'd be at a L1 club (top 6 preferably) and playing most games for them this season.

With a lot of young players I'd agree but for me the key points are:

a) He is already playing most games for us.

and

b) Rightly so. Whether or not he's scoring goals, I think he's in the team for a reason and adding more to our attacking play than most this season. At the moment, with our injuries, I feel he's easily within our best available XI and I'd have him down as a strong case as a starter if all our players were fully fit.

[Better Red]

10 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Are you admitting here that you have a desire to say 'I told you so'?

You've completely missed the point or misunderstood the obvious point in my post - give young players time. 

Your point of view is just reactionary and naïve - and that's being kind!

 

 

But dare I say right....

[Better Red]

18 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Semenyo has two goals this season btw (and 6 assists).

Zero goals in the league... And he is playing every game.

[Better Red]

9 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

What utter nonsense. Semenyo is probably our most creative spark at the moment. You can see him growing every game - it wouldnt surprise me to see him banging them in once his confidence is up and he has hit the back of the net a few times. 

At the beginning of his career Marcus Rashford was criticized for not scoring and labelled a winger. 

Semenyo is so young it is absurd to label him as you are doing. Its almost like you want him to fail, so you can say "i told you so". Pathetic really

It’s a game of opinions. It’s just my is right at the moment.
 

If he scores goals I will be the first to come on here I say he proved me wrong.

Just to be clear I don’t want him to fail.  I was saying he will.

I have been waiting about 20 games so far... 

[Better Red]

9 hours ago, RedRock said:

Agree, in general, but a very few players are worth persevering with. Semenyo is a possible candidate imo.

The problem with the Bobby Reid example is for every Bobby there are at least forty who still won’t make it, even by the age of 89 and playing every week.

Our player development strategy is not sufficiently ruthless at identifying and rejecting those who are not good enough. This breeds complacency, in turn, that supresses rapid development of player potential imo. 

 

 

Agree about development strategy. This crop Is poor.

People are saying Massengo looks a good player. That’s how bad this crop is.

Seymenyo does have something I agree and with better coaches I think he could be a decent player.

But if we are saying 3 goals a season is a good return for a ‘Forward’ is good enough then we are setting out bar to low.

If can get 6 plus then move him on. Same goes for COD not enough goals so get rid. 
 

Vyner is best prospect at the moment and I get the idea that we would have moved him on 6 months ago. We have a problem with academy and it’s recruitment, retaining poor players and coaching.

 

[RedRock]

30 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Agree about development strategy. This crop Is poor.

People are saying Massengo looks a good player. That’s how bad this crop is.

Seymenyo does have something I agree and with better coaches I think he could be a decent player.

But if we are saying 3 goals a season is a good return for a ‘Forward’ is good enough then we are setting out bar to low.

If can get 6 plus then move him on. Same goes for COD not enough goals so get rid. 
 

Vyner is best prospect at the moment and I get the idea that we would have moved him on 6 months ago. We have a problem with academy and it’s recruitment, retaining poor players and coaching.

 

A forward, minimum should be 12 goals imo. 

At the moment, I think Semenyo could be developed to play ‘in the hole’ behind the front attacker(s) personally. He’s raw, unorthodox and has pace, power and a decent skill set.  Could worry and open up defences in that position. 

Presently though, he just doesn’t seem capable of delivering sufficient goals to justify starting in a main attacker role. 

That may come in time, but we can’t waste a goal scorer role to hope/wait for him to push on. 

[Better Red]

Another week goes by and no goals....

I don’t want say I told you so but.....

[Numero Uno]

42 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Another week goes by and no goals....

I don’t want say I told you so but.....

Of course not.

[Better Red]

On 12/01/2021 at 18:53, Better Red said:

But dare I say right....

And still right...

[TonyTonyTony]

On 20/01/2021 at 21:30, Better Red said:

And still right...

Sorry to spoil your evening

[IAmNick]

[RedHienz]

Hi Lez. Love Ant

[Phileas Fogg]

Brilliant goal. Showed what we already know he had; (pace, power and athleticism) and something which we didn’t - composure and finishing ability.

Hopefully this gets the ball rolling. 

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Brilliant goal. Showed what we already know he had; (pace, power and athleticism) and something which we didn’t - composure and finishing ability.

Hopefully this gets the ball rolling. 

Good strikers finish 

 

Or for his deflectors...... it luckily bobbled in front of him as he ran through and then he scuffed a shot which confused the keeper 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Good strikers finish 

 

Or for his deflectors...... it luckily bobbled in front of him as he ran through and then he scuffed a shot which confused the keeper 

 

He did really well to keep his composure and hold the oncoming defender off whilst picking his spot.. all at pace. 

Massive confidence boost hopefully. You can tell from the noise of the bench and his celebration how much that meant to him and the team.

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

He did really well to keep his composure and hold the oncoming defender off whilst picking his spot.. all at pace. 

Massive confidence boost hopefully. You can tell from the noise of the bench and his celebration how much that meant to him and the team.

He’s a good player in the making PF

If we are to push upwards his progress is likely to have a fair part to play (IMHO)

[Dr Balls]

I have been worried by his lack of end product, but fair play, he took that really well. Hopefully he can just now do it more regularly.

[robin_unreliant]

On 20/01/2021 at 20:39, Better Red said:

Another week goes by and no goals....

I don’t want say I told you so but.....

Wrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrong. 

[Prinny]

Very pleased he took his chance today!

[Banjo Red]

Let's hope this kick starts his league form.

[spudski]

Imo he's far better playing as an attacking midfielder like today.

Regardless of the goal...he offers so much more in that position, especially when driving towards the 18 yard box with his strength.

[Red7]

29 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

He did really well to keep his composure and hold the oncoming defender off whilst picking his spot.. all at pace. 

Massive confidence boost hopefully. You can tell from the noise of the bench and his celebration how much that meant to him and the team.

Yep, cool finish considering the pressure he himself probably felt under. You can tell how much it meant to most of us on here, too.
Fair play to the lad.

[Sheltons Army]

10 minutes ago, Red7 said:

Yep, cool finish considering the pressure he himself probably felt under. You can tell how much it meant to most of us on here, too.
Fair play to the lad.

Just needs to put that celebration away - crazy

[Red7]

Just now, Sheltons Army said:

Just needs to put that celebration away - crazy

I won't be trying it at home...

[BCFCGav]

I said at 2 an Antoine goal would crown the victory. Over the moon for him and City. 

Prolific striker! (In the cups).