Bristol City v Millwall Match Day 19

[marmite]

1 minute ago, RedRock said:

I don’t think the likes of Bakinson, CoD, Martin would be seen again for a while in a Warnock led team. 

But as we’re decent human beings we’ve got to give them chance, after chance.......season after season...... 

i dont say Warnock is the answer, but if Holden is the answer, I'd love to know what the question was.

[DT The Optimist]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

Got to give Millwall some credit for that.

Big issue for me was none of of City players were prepared to run at the opposition. No flair........

No flair.no invention, no drive,  no one making anything happen... all pretty turgid..again....  another painful watch..

As AW said at end of commentary, 7 or 8 injured players, all of whom would be match day squad. Only saving grace. 

[REDOXO]

I will say one word. Abject! 

[Shuffle]

So an absolutely diabolical performance again but with 9 injuries do we genuinely think someone could come in and make us a flair team and a threat.  Our midfield is dreadful and create nothing.  So with what we have available who could do better with what we have?

I’m seriously pissed off but will judge Holden with a full squad. 

[RedRock]

42 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

Playing from the back is good, but City can't make it work.

City's version is, kick forward, kick back, kick back, kick forward, kick back, hoof it or give it away.

I only wish I saw that many forward passes!

It goes sideways, sideways, sideways, short forward to Massengo, short back, sideways.....  and then the trigger (I assume pressed as a result of boredom) .... Moore thumps it forward 30 yards, invariably to the opposition.

Repeat. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by RedRock

[AppyDAZE]

51 minutes ago, Robbored said:

72% possession as well. Just shows how misleading possession stats can be.

Moore - Kalas - Moore - Mariappa - Moore - Hunt - Bentley - Moore -

Edited December 15, 2020 by AppyDAZE

[Sheltons Army]

Blimey Dean reckons we played some good stuff

 

Dont Dean , please don’t 

Thats Johnsonesque b*******s

[nickolas]

Dean Holden: ‘we improved from Saturday’. 
My god. Now i see hes been in the building too long with LJ. 

IMPROVED?!?!?!

[Tomo]

Dean said it was an improvement on the Rotherham game - oh dear!

[Loosey Boy]

Cannot believe that Holden thinks we were better than Saturday - unbelievable
 

Sounds like Kalas will be out on Friday now

[sludge]

5 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

So an absolutely diabolical performance again but with 9 injuries do we genuinely think someone could come in and make us a flair team and a threat.  Our midfield is dreadful and create nothing.  So with what we have available who could do better with what we have?

I’m seriously pissed off but will judge Holden with a full squad. 

The 11 players we had on the pitch tonight should’ve been good enough to muster up at least one corner between them though surely. 
 

Zero corners in 95 minutes of football. That’s just blown my mind for the evening

[Sitrom]

Some bloke name @petehinton put this up on twitter. (I've never heard of him either). Looks in to me.

[mozo]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

Problem is we have so much quality injured like you say. 

But that also means the current lot are absolutely knackered. I'm not seeing a lack of effort at all. I think Wells might be the only one who has played a lot who still looks fit. The others really struggling I think other than those who haven't played much like Massengo.

Holden football is about high work rate. But when tired I guess that is what it looks like.

We're definitely not seeing any confidence and spirit though, which is concerning.

Despite the effort, the lads tonight were playing as though they had zero belief.

[Ska Junkie]

4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Dean said it was an improvement on the Rotherham game - oh dear!

Oh ffs. Johnsonesque bullcrap already? What happened to 'say it as I see it'?

It was utter garbage Dean, that's how I saw it!

Edited December 15, 2020 by Ska Junkie

[sludge]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Problem is we have so much quality injured like you say. 

But that also means the current lot are absolutely knackered. I'm not seeing a lack of effort at all. I think Wells might be the only one who has played a lot who still looks fit. The others really struggling I think other than those who haven't played much like Massengo.

Holden football is about high work rate. But when tired I guess that is what it looks like.

You need to have a plan b though surely. If the players are knackered then we need to work out a way of adapting. Millwall have barely broken sweat tonight and have beat us comprehensively. 
 

Saturday against Rotherham we were just so naive in the first half and completely played into their hands 

[robin_unreliant]

Deceptive angle that. Goalie could be holding it up against the post as easily as it being in. Needs a different angle to tell. 

[lenred]

13 minutes ago, marmite said:

i dont say Warnock is the answer, but if Holden is the answer, I'd love to know what the question was.

‘Who can we take a very very cheap punt on after dragging out a decision for 6 weeks’? 

[TomThumb84]

I agree with what you say but with a few caveats.

Holden sold who he wanted to, and bought who he wanted to.

We need to be careful here about creating an easy excuse. Walsh and Williams are being talked up a lot, but one was on loan in league one last year and the other in the centre of a side that got relegated.

Brunt has offered us nothing, Mawson was always a risk with injury, Chris Martin looks completely crestfallen at the moment, and Sessegnon relatively untried.

Out of the players that have gone, Morrell, Korey Smith, Kasey Palmer and Eliasson - well, I would take all four back right now.

[nickolas]

Just now, Ska Junkie said:

Oh ffs Johnsonesque bullcrap already? What happened to 'say it as I see it'?

It was utter garbage Dean, that's how I saw it!

‘I asked them to play in the right areas and they did that’. 
erm, so you asked them to play aimlessly along our back line all night. We surely dont have to believe that sh1te do we?!

[Kodjias Wrist]

6 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Dean Holden: ‘we improved from Saturday’. 
My god. Now i see hes been in the building too long with LJ. 

IMPROVED?!?!?!

Oh god. No going back from a comment like that. Another delusional coach.

[Harry]

To be fair, it WAS better than Saturday. 
Saturday was the worst game ever, tonight was the 2nd worst. 

[mozo]

They showed the goal line technology thing and the ball was about 70% over

[AppyDAZE]

3 minutes ago, Sitrom said:

Some bloke name @petehinton put this up on twitter. (I've never heard of him either). Looks in to me.

But the whole of the ball doesn't look behind the post. So it's all about angles and there is goal-line tech. So, no goal. Our only shot on target, wasn't it?

[Sitrom]

1 minute ago, robin_unreliant said:

Deceptive angle that. Goalie could be holding it up against the post as easily as it being in. Needs a different angle to tell. 

IT'S ALL I'VE GOT.  JUST LET ME HAVE IT.  PLEASE.  

[Wade Wilson]

7 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Dean Holden: ‘we improved from Saturday’. 
My god. Now i see hes been in the building too long with LJ. 

IMPROVED?!?!?!

[Gazred]

18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You obviously haven’t been following the possession stats discussion recently on here,

I've have seen some of it. What was misleading about our approx 70% possesion then? We dominated the ball as per the stat.

[Ska Junkie]

Just now, nickolas said:

‘I asked them to play in the right areas and they did that’. 
erm, so you asked them to play aimlessly along our back line all night. We surely dont have to believe that sh1te do we?!

Pass, pass, sideways, backwards, pass, pass then either pass it to a Millwall player, hoof it aimlessly or straight out of play.

I must be missing something Nick, you too by the sounds of it.

[marcofisher]

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Problem is we have so much quality injured like you say. 

But that also means the current lot are absolutely knackered. I'm not seeing a lack of effort at all. I think Wells might be the only one who has played a lot who still looks fit. The others really struggling I think other than those who haven't played much like Massengo.

Holden football is about high work rate. But when tired I guess that is what it looks like.

So why has he named an unchanged lineup, when there has been 2 matches is a week, at least twice?

 

 

 

[Sitrom]

I'm over it already.  Roll on the next game.  Who is it?  PRESTON!  

 

Oh fudge...

[Shuffle]

1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

I agree with what you say but with a few caveats.

Holden sold who he wanted to, and bought who he wanted to.

We need to be careful here about creating an easy excuse. Walsh and Williams are being talked up a lot, but one was on loan in league one last year and the other in the centre of a side that got relegated.

Brunt has offered us nothing, Mawson was always a risk with injury, Chris Martin looks completely crestfallen at the moment, and Sessegnon relatively untried.

Out of the players that have gone, Morrell, Korey Smith, Kasey Palmer and Eliasson - well, I would take all four back right now.

No agree with what your saying and would of kept Morrell/Palmer as suicidal with injuries and can see no point in the Brunt signing as blocked the pathway they talk about all the time.  Mawson was a risk but was looking superb.  Don’t know the answer but I’d defy any team other than relegated teams to ride out 9 injuries and continue to be successful 

[nickolas]

Just now, Ska Junkie said:

Pass, pass, sideways, backwards, pass, pass then either pass it to a Millwall player, hoof it aimlessly or straight out of play.

I must be missing something Nick, you too by the sounds of it.

Ive quite enjoyed Deans honest assessments. That tonight i’m sorry is utter tosh. 
It beats the nervous under pressure giggles from LJ, granted, but that was the worst and most worrying interview hes given imo. 
Injuries are horrendous. He doesnt want an excuse. 
Well theres no excuse for that interview. 
Deluded? Inexperienced? Or just plain stupid to claim what he has done tonight?

Worrying!

[Tomo]

Unfortunately, I was reporting on it this evening and had to stay in the stadium, I can honestly say that I have not watched such a negative performance at the gate. It really was woeful. They had zero ideas and all the nonsense about injuries just annoys me. The lads who played have all been 1st team starters at some point during their career at the club. 

Pathetic, boring and simply ineffective!

I just wished I was at home this evening and I could have turned the channel over!

[Jeez]

11 minutes ago, Wade Wilson said:

I thought that was legit @Shtanley chucking Holden bin. The likeness is uncanny.

Deano’s Chinos binned off already.

[pongo88]

38 minutes ago, marmite said:

And nobody wanted Warnock because the football would be crap. Ha ha.

I saw him on TV when he mentioned a job interview he had. Someone said “Mr Warnock, would the fans like your style of play?”  “They might like to see the team win for a change” he replied. 
 

He didn’t get the job 

[westonred]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

Haha wondered how long until that classic came out

Well you have to wonder that was one of the worst performances i have seen in over 50 years of watching City no commitment they just didn't look interested

[Topper 123]

1 hour ago, Gimme Shelton said:

Just relieved I haven't paid 30 odd quid to watch this dross 

It’s a shame we didn’t because players would know how we feel

[Denbury Red]

3 minutes ago, westonred said:

Well you have to wonder that was one of the worst performances i have seen in over 50 years of watching City no commitment they just didn't look interested

Yet just seen Holden’s post match comments and he says it was better than Saturday!

What was he watching??

[Robbored]

28 minutes ago, Gazred said:

I've have seen some of it. What was misleading about our approx 70% possesion then? We dominated the ball as per the stat.

As you said City did nothing with it. Some think that having high possession is good to have but can and often do give a wrong reflection on the game.

[Born and Red in 82]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Unfortunately, I was reporting on it this evening and had to stay in the stadium, I can honestly say that I have not watched such a negative performance at the gate. It really was woeful. They had zero ideas and all the nonsense about injuries just annoys me. The lads who played have all been 1st team starters at some point during their career at the club. 

Pathetic, boring and simply ineffective!

I just wished I was at home this evening and I could have turned the channel over!

Exactly my thinking ... these are championship paid footballers !? Look like non league piss heads who can’t be assed 

[RedM]

7 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Well at least we are getting our season ticket money refunded.  I would be even more unhappy if I was paying to eatch that dog shite.  Much more of this and a few of us may not be forking out for a season ticket next year either.

I agree, and the longer fans have to stay away the harder it will be for the club to win them back. And I really never thought I would be thinking that. Of course many will renew out of habit/loyality, but it must be on Steve’s mind.

I want to be sat at home absolutely gutted about the great matches I’m missing, instead it’s almost a relief I’m not there.

[Lew-T]

Millwall's Gary Rowett: "We went for the simplest game plan I have used in ages and I picked a team to implement it. Bristol City have struggled against physical sides and our aim was to get the ball forward early and win the second balls.
 

Ouch.

[lenred]

6 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Millwall's Gary Rowett: "We went for the simplest game plan I have used in ages and I picked a team to implement it. Bristol City have struggled against physical sides and our aim was to get the ball forward early and win the second balls.
 

Ouch.

Pretty worrying that teams are thinking like that and that is our reputation. Someone alluded to it in a thread last night as well that we are known inside the game for being lightweight and having little fight.  Worrying. Really need to step on this ASAP. Also worrying that it only needs a very basic game plan to beat us so convincingly.  

[Frenchay Red]

4 minutes ago, lenred said:

Pretty worrying that teams are thinking like that and that is our reputation. Someone alluded to it in a thread last night as well that we are known inside the game for being lightweight and having little fight.  Worrying. Really need to step on this ASAP. Also worrying that it only needs a very basic game plan to beat us so convincingly.  

I imagine O'Neil will be thinking along the same lines for Friday. Unfortunately our main physical presence going forward, having picked up 3 cards he wasn't expecting on his birthday, will be missing

[wendyredredrobin]

12 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

I imagine O'Neil will be thinking along the same lines for Friday. Unfortunately our main physical presence going forward, having picked up 3 cards he wasn't expecting on his birthday, will be missing

Whilst he may look physical, he actually isn't very physical though.  Gets knocked off the Ball far too easily for his size.

[Frenchay Red]

Just now, wendyredredrobin said:

Whilst he may look physical, he actually isn't very physical though.  Gets knocked off the Ball far too easily for his size.

He's a big lump and gives defenders something to think about, and brings a good defensive quality as well. But I agree that he's not very cultured and doesn't hold the ball very well. But to be honest Martin has been pretty ineffective in the last few games. Anyway if he was in the selection thoughts for PNE, he's not any more!

[cidered abroad]

3 hours ago, RedM said:

I agree, and the longer fans have to stay away the harder it will be for the club to win them back. And I really never thought I would be thinking that. Of course many will renew out of habit/loyality, but it must be on Steve’s mind.

I want to be sat at home absolutely gutted about the great matches I’m missing, instead it’s almost a relief I’m not there.

I am beginning to realise how much time I used to waste going to watch this boring drivel. It's the same as Johnson Rot.

The annoying thing about last evening is that after the Rotherham rubbish, I only decided to buy my Robins TV ticket about 30 minutes before kick off. What a plonker I am as that was worse than anything I ever watched when we were in Division 4 back in 1982!

[Curr Avon]

If we were in any doubt, this says it all and it's bloody painful.

Extracted from:  Bristol City 0-2 Millwall: Tom Bradshaw & Mason Bennett give Lions win - BBC Sport

 

[sludge]

5 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

If we were in any doubt, this says it all and it's bloody painful.

Extracted from:  Bristol City 0-2 Millwall: Tom Bradshaw & Mason Bennett give Lions win - BBC Sport

 

Says it all. What really makes me angry is that this has been a weakness of ours for years and years, and nobody at the club seems capable of dealing with it. The problem starts with recruitment - we simply never buy physical players (except maybe Nathan 'made of glass' Baker 

[A Horse With No Name]

It always hits home when you see the teams in the tunnel before games, for example Rotherham and Birmingham all these 6ft 3 monsters are lining up and then you see the likes of Nagy, Patterson, DaSilva, Hunt, even Wells all of 5ft nothing.

[spudski]

A simple game plan of getting the ball forward, being physical and winning the second ball....

Kinnel...that's what they do on the downs league.

Let's be honest...we are going backwards and have been for a while. All the signs have been there for a couple seasons.

This is going one way...think Milne, Tinnion.

Think fans are losing interest...exasipated by virus restrictions. 

Think there will be a lot less renewing season tickets.

 

[maxjak]

That's Birmingham, Rotherham and Milwall....all big physical teams.  Do you think Holden might eventually notice the common denominator?  Because when DH was asked the direct question  "Gary Rowett stated after the game that Bristol City struggle against physical sides, would you agree?"   DH.  " I am not really interested in what Rowett said"    Hit a nerve did he Dean?

[TomThumb84]

This from Rowett is an absolute rubber-stamp on where we are.

We have a great stadium, lovely training ground on the way, state of the art facilities, wonderful award winning social media, great corporate facilities, big growth plans, sports scientists, nutritionalists and all that great stuff, and......

A manager of the opposition team not only sets up, but executes his “simplest game plan used in ages”. A lump it and win the second ball, back to basics strategy.

Now, this means we are not only completely predictable but also the perception of us is one that can be bullied and out-battled. With simple Sunday League tactics.

Talk about building a club and forgetting to put a team on the pitch.

[lenred]

Worrying that teams are thinking like that and that this is now our reputation although I suspect it’s been so for a while now. Someone alluded to it in a thread last night as well that we are known inside the game for being lightweight and having little fight which is worrying moving forwards.  Really need to step on this ASAP somehow. Also worrying that it appears it only needs a very basic game plan to beat us so convincingly.  

[2015]

I liked Millwall, I actually even rated Rotherham. Maybe all this talk about playing fancy football is just rubbish. 
They were in our faces, aggressive, balls in the box, direct running, pressing, PACE - everything we do not have and have needed for 3 years. Yet it's like we look down upon that sort of style. I don't understand why, it's far better football than the dross we've been serving up for a long time!

We don't look like improving and it's worrying. 

[headhunter]

5 minutes ago, lenred said:

 Also worrying that it appears it only needs a very basic game plan to beat us so convincingly.  

So are Dean's Assistant's helping him by applying their experience to address this situation? 

[lenred]

1 minute ago, headhunter said:

So are Dean's Assistant's helping him by applying their experience to address this situation? 

I’m 100% sure that they are, it’s their jobs and they seem very decent blokes so I’m sure they are trying, but it’s not working at the moment whatever they are doing as a coaching group.  

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

If we were in any doubt, this says it all and it's bloody painful.

Extracted from:  Bristol City 0-2 Millwall: Tom Bradshaw & Mason Bennett give Lions win - BBC Sport

 

Now that’s a manager ! 

[Dolman_Stand]

Unfortunately Holden didn't have the tools at his disposal to combat this, if Mawson and Baker were fit would Millwall have gone for this strategy in the first place?

[TomThumb84]

8 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I liked Millwall, I actually even rated Rotherham. Maybe all this talk about playing fancy football is just rubbish. 
They were in our faces, aggressive, balls in the box, direct running, pressing, PACE - everything we do not have and have needed for 3 years. Yet it's like we look down upon that sort of style. I don't understand why, it's far better football than the dross we've been serving up for a long time!

We don't look like improving and it's worrying. 

Having not watched Millwall or Rotherham every week I wouldn’t know, however I’d wager they don’t set up like this against every side in the league.

Specifically against us I would imagine.

All week training, licking their chops, bad run about to come to an end with Bristol City to play at the end of the week. Get fired up, get amongst them, win your personal battles, be strong, and you will turn them over.

Sadly its that simple.

[sludge]

2 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Unfortunately Holden didn't have the tools at his disposal to combat this, if Mawson and Baker were fit would Millwall have gone for this strategy in the first place?

Think the chances of ever seeing Mawson and Baker on the same pitch wearing red at the same time are remote at best

[tin]

Rowett's bang on the money. He knows it, other teams know it, we know it. We're a soft touch and have been for years in truth. This is what we get if we continue to appoint head coaches with little experience or from within our cosy club. Spineless from top to bottom. 

[2015]

14 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Having not watched Millwall or Rotherham every week I wouldn’t know, however I’d wager they don’t set up like this against every side in the league.

Specifically against us I would imagine.

All week training, licking their chops, bad run about to come to an end with Bristol City to play at the end of the week. Get fired up, get amongst them, win your personal battles, be strong, and you will turn them over.

Sadly its that simple.

The answer for me in the Summer of getting rid of this 'Soft touch' City mentality at the club was by appointing an old school style manager in Paul Cook. But, no, our board most likely would not want to be told that the jobs they do are usless to the team

[Frenchay Red]

I may be mistaken but I think Rowett usually turns us over, whichever team he is managing.

[daored]

1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

If we were in any doubt, this says it all and it's bloody painful.

Extracted from:  Bristol City 0-2 Millwall: Tom Bradshaw & Mason Bennett give Lions win - BBC Sport

 

And our next two opponents will be doing exactly the same 

[redsince1994]

44 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I liked Millwall, I actually even rated Rotherham. Maybe all this talk about playing fancy football is just rubbish. 
They were in our faces, aggressive, balls in the box, direct running, pressing, PACE - everything we do not have and have needed for 3 years. Yet it's like we look down upon that sort of style. I don't understand why, it's far better football than the dross we've been serving up for a long time!

We don't look like improving and it's worrying. 

Agreed, Rotherham especially I thought were surprisingly good to watch (Millwall might have been but it was too depressing to pay full attention to the match).

Direct yes, but combined with a high press and decent interplay around the box makes for reasonably exciting football. 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

13 hours ago, Dan Robin said:

Another loss at home, more injuries and a red card. Can things go worse?!?

Yes! and it probably will, Murphy's Law.

[Redrascal2]

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

So are Dean's Assistant's helping him by applying their experience to address this situation? 

Seem to be as clueless as Holden.

[Tin Soldier]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

A simple game plan of getting the ball forward, being physical and winning the second ball....

Kinnel...that's what they do on the downs league.

Let's be honest...we are going backwards and have been for a while. All the signs have been there for a couple seasons.

This is going one way...think Milne, Tinnion.

Think fans are losing interest...exasipated by virus restrictions. 

Think there will be a lot less renewing season tickets.

 

Unfortunately you are right. The club is and has been badly run for many years. They have been papering over the cracks well TBF by selling players for “top dollar” and then bringing in “fair average” replacements at best. I feel sorry for the season ticket holders because if you are lucky, you might see 3 shots on goal by City across the 90 minutes.

I think it is obvious to most that we have no spine, no muscle, no steel in midfield. Why did they sell Korey? Sides just run straight through our midfield and then muscle us off the ball in the final third. And yes, this is basic stuff which Sunday league sides deliver FFS, and here we are in the Championship not being able to sort it.

The only way Lansdown will instigate change is if he lances the boil that festers - which is Ashton. He is killing this club. Never been so despondent about City.

Edited December 16, 2020 by GasDestroyer

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

Unfortunately you are right. The club is and has been badly run for many years. They have been papering over the cracks well TBF by selling players for “top dollar” and then bringing in “fair average” replacements at best. I feel sorry for the season ticket holders because if you are lucky, you might see 3 shots on goal by City across the 90 minutes.

The only way Lansdown will instigate change is if he lances the boil that festers - which is Ashton. He is killing this club. Never been so despondent about City.

It's a flawed system that won't bring promotion. 

 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

A simple game plan of getting the ball forward, being physical and winning the second ball....

Kinnel...that's what they do on the downs league.

Let's be honest...we are going backwards and have been for a while. All the signs have been there for a couple seasons.

This is going one way...think Milne, Tinnion.

Think fans are losing interest...exasipated by virus restrictions. 

Think there will be a lot less renewing season tickets.

 

I agree once the habit gets broken the club will find it hard to attract the same level of support, and let's be blunt here the fayre on offer at the moment is not exactly going to tempt anybody out on a wet Wednesday in January is it.