Sunderland fans loving POMO’s and USP’s

[Red7]

28 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Of course it always ends in tears. My wife was recently reminding me that at the end I was calling for TC to go.

Can't believe you wanted to get rid of TC.

Surely you can't mean Top Cat:

Top Cat!
The most effectual!
Top Cat!
Who's intellectual!
Close friends get to call him "T.C.,"
Providing it's with dignity!

Top Cat!
The indisputable leader of the gang.
He's the boss, he's a VIP, he's a championship.
He's the most tip top,
Top Cat.

 

[TedsHeadIs Red]

44 minutes ago, Red7 said:

Can't believe you wanted to get rid of TC.

Surely you can't mean Top Cat:

Top Cat!
The most effectual!
Top Cat!
Who's intellectual!
Close friends get to call him "T.C.,"
Providing it's with dignity!

Top Cat!
The indisputable leader of the gang.
He's the boss, he's a VIP, he's a championship.
He's the most tip top,
Top Cat.

 

?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

Sorry, but those accounts are for the whole club, are they? Not just playing staff.  

And for a realistic comparison, you'd need to benchmark them against what other teams in the same league were spending. Year-on-year comparisons aren't valid as the spending needed to be competitive in the Championship has risen ahead of inflation.

Being facetious....worth going and having a look how competitive Millwall, Blackburn, Preston, Barnsley, Brentford are on fractions of our budget / costs.  It’s almost immaterial whether you take players wages or not, we are still vastly higher....even when just looking at the football club.

Here’s the same picture (above) with the football side separated.

If you take:

Millwall - Income £18.4m / Costs £23.4m (staff costs £16.9m) / Transfer Profit (£5.4m)

If you compare that to just our football side, they have bigger revenues (£2.2m more), smaller overall costs (£26.4m less) and smaller wage bill (£10.5m less).

Brentford - Income £17.8m / Costs £35.3m (staff costs £16.9m) / Transfer Profit (£27.2m)

So you can be competitive on a fraction of the costs City are.  I’d suggest we’ve got a bit carried away!

 

[Kid in the Riot]

I should stay away from this thread but couldn't resist posting this from a Sunderland fan I know 

Quote

 

I reckon City should have stuck with Lee Johnson instead of chopping and changing all the time. Since arriving at Sunderland he has been a breath of fresh air and the team are definitely playing better football. At times against Doncaster we were really good. The mid-week game against Lincoln in the cup semi-final was a bit dour but we still came through. What I like about LJ is that he very quickly spots the strengths and weaknesses of players, a bit like Big Sam did when he became our Manager. If we can avoid too many injuries I fancy us to get promoted this season. Also cause for optimism is the fact that we now have a new owner, so hopefully some more investment on the way. The last owner Stuart Donald did do a good job in clearing all the debts and getting the club back on a sound financial footing but he didn't have the resources to go further.

Shame we can't go to Wembley to watch the Papa Johns Final but I fancy we can beat Tranmere having watched them against Oxford on Tuesday.

 

 

[SecretSam]

1 hour ago, Red7 said:

Can't believe you wanted to get rid of TC.

Surely you can't mean Top Cat:

Top Cat!
The most effectual!
Top Cat!
Who's intellectual!
Close friends get to call him "T.C.,"
Providing it's with dignity!

Top Cat!
The indisputable leader of the gang.
He's the boss, he's a VIP, he's a championship.
He's the most tip top,
Top Cat.

I never knew the words to that before...:D

[Red Exile]

3 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I never knew the words to that before...:D

I have to confess I did!

Sad I know...

For the record in my original post wasn't referring to Top Cat btw.

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Red Exile

[SecretSam]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Being facetious....worth going and having a look how competitive Millwall, Blackburn, Preston, Barnsley, Brentford are on fractions of our budget / costs.  It’s almost immaterial whether you take players wages or not, we are still vastly higher....even when just looking at the football club.

Here’s the same picture (above) with the football side separated.

If you take:

Millwall - Income £18.4m / Costs £23.4m (staff costs £16.9m) / Transfer Profit (£5.4m)

If you compare that to just our football side, they have bigger revenues (£2.2m more), smaller overall costs (£26.4m less) and smaller wage bill (£10.5m less).

Brentford - Income £17.8m / Costs £35.3m (staff costs £16.9m) / Transfer Profit (£27.2m)

So you can be competitive on a fraction of the costs City are.  I’d suggest we’ve got a bit carried away!

 

OK, fair enough. One thought that does occur: do we have to overpay on wages because of where we are? London, midlands or north west clubs all have other clubs near. We don't, so if you settle here, there's more of a risk of upheaval? Just a thought.

Edited February 19, 2021 by SecretSam

[SecretSam]

5 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I have to confess I did!

Sad I know...

For the record in my original post wasn't referring to Top Cat btw.

 

But I wonder how many of us now have that song in our heads....

[Bristol Oil Services]

11 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I should stay away from this thread but couldn't resist posting this from a Sunderland fan I know 

 

We needed a "breath of fresh air," remember, and a freshing up after 4 years - that was the considered opinion of the owner. As well as the baying crowd.

And LJ, too, perhaps, needed a refresh, and a reboot. To "go again."

We were 12th, going down the table, and backwards, playing tedious low-shoot/chance football, and playing blokes like Afobe wide left. We were well on the way towards the shite we've seen this season when Lee was fired, with quite a few fewer injuries.

We needed a break from him, and he needed a break from us/here.

SL got that bit right! Now he has a second go at getting LJ's replacement and the fabled "breath of fresh air" right.

This season has made it too easy to forget how poor we were under Lee by the end, and the direction of travel of this club under the Ashton/Johnson partnership. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

OK, fair enough. One thought that does occur: do we have to overpay on wages because of where we are? London, midlands or north west clubs all have other clubs near. We don't, so if you settle here, there's more of a risk of upheaval? Just a thought.

My gut feel is that’s much more of a consideration in the leagues below us, where wages are much lower.

[SecretSam]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My gut feel is that’s much more of a consideration in the leagues below us, where wages are much lower.

Possibly. How the hell do Exeter or Carlisle recruit???

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Possibly. How the hell do Exeter or Carlisle recruit???

The Devon clubs have traditionally seen a lot of players doing the rounds.

Worth getting hold of Ben Smith’s autobiography.  It’s a real eye opener for how players in Lg1/2 and Conference “live”, the Merry go-round of renting other players houses, desperate for a pro contract so they get paid over the summer etc.

[LondonBristolian]

36 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

We needed a "breath of fresh air," remember, and a freshing up after 4 years - that was the considered opinion of the owner. As well as the baying crowd.

And LJ, too, perhaps, needed a refresh, and a reboot. To "go again."

We were 12th, going down the table, and backwards, playing tedious low-shoot/chance football, and playing blokes like Afobe wide left. We were well on the way towards the shite we've seen this season when Lee was fired, with quite a few fewer injuries.

We needed a break from him, and he needed a break from us/here.

SL got that bit right! Now he has a second go at getting LJ's replacement and the fabled "breath of fresh air" right.

This season has made it too easy to forget how poor we were under Lee by the end, and the direction of travel of this club under the Ashton/Johnson partnership. 

I think the problem is that people are naturally very selective with what they remember about managers. It's selective to ignore the utterly superb job Steve Cotterill did in League One, and the brilliant football we made, but it's equally selective to ignore the fact he was doing a very good job of taking us back there when he got sacked. Meanwhile Lee Johnson did a good job in parts - the League Cup run, turning a relegation threatened side into promotion challengers - but we had the dire losing streak in his second season and, as you say, we went through several awful spells in his last season. We were dreadful in January and February and then abysmal when we came back after the restart. There's no doubt at all that it was time for Johnson to go but we were very decent for spells under him. There is no doubt that we were brilliant in 2014/2015 underr Cotterill but we were dreadful in 15/16 and would have been relegated without a change of manager.

People seem to feel the need to set up this slightly bizarre Cotterill fan vs Johnson fan rivalry where they wholly praise one and wholly trash the other but, with both managers, it was way more complex than that. 

[Robbored]

I went on to the Sunderland forum to give them some insight into what they could expect from LJ as a gesture of goodwill amongst football fans - what an ignorant bunch! 

 

[Red7]

58 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I have to confess I did!

Sad I know...

For the record in my original post wasn't referring to Top Cat btw.

 

I know, mate.
It just came into my head for some reason - started drinking early today
Had to copy and paste the words, mind. Far too long ago to remember.

[Red Exile]

29 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think the problem is that people are naturally very selective with what they remember about managers. It's selective to ignore the utterly superb job Steve Cotterill did in League One, and the brilliant football we made, but it's equally selective to ignore the fact he was doing a very good job of taking us back there when he got sacked. Meanwhile Lee Johnson did a good job in parts - the League Cup run, turning a relegation threatened side into promotion challengers - but we had the dire losing streak in his second season and, as you say, we went through several awful spells in his last season. We were dreadful in January and February and then abysmal when we came back after the restart. There's no doubt at all that it was time for Johnson to go but we were very decent for spells under him. There is no doubt that we were brilliant in 2014/2015 underr Cotterill but we were dreadful in 15/16 and would have been relegated without a change of manager.

People seem to feel the need to set up this slightly bizarre Cotterill fan vs Johnson fan rivalry where they wholly praise one and wholly trash the other but, with both managers, it was way more complex than that. 

I agree....but over time matches...even seasons...blur into each other, what's remembered are the truly stand out moments. With Steve Cotterill there are many of these, and because he left so soon after all of those really very few poor ones. By complete contrast I associate LJ with outstaying his welcome!

That said if I had to pick a handful of my finest ever City moments they would include Korey's winner...but I associate that match with Korey and Joe Bryan far more than LJ. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Red Exile

[LondonBristolian]

23 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I agree....but over time matches...even seasons...blur into each other, what's remembered are the truly stand out moments. With Steve Cotterill there are many of these, and because he left so soon after all of those really very few poor ones. By complete contrast I associate LJ with outstaying his welcome!

That said if I had to pick a handful of my finest ever City moments they would include Korey's winner...but I associate that match with Korey and Joe Bryan far more than LJ. 

I’d agree with all of that. I think the other issue with Johnson is that he never had a good entire season and tended to end seasons badly. We played some lovely stuff at times in both 17/18 and 18/19 but the overriding feeling at the end of both seasons was one of disappointment and missed opportunity. 

[NickJ]

On 19/02/2021 at 14:39, Kid in the Riot said:

I should stay away from this thread but couldn't resist posting this from a Sunderland fan I know 

 

Your mate may be saying that now mate, after a couple of easy victories, but after a couple of defeats and LJ blaming eveyone bar himself and talking absolute drivel again, I dare say your mate may have a different opinion. These comments from just the first of 14 pages in response to LJ's post match comments after the defeat against Shrewsbury, could have been lifted straight off of OTIB:

Thought we were good for a draw . It’s ****ing Shrewsbury.

Looks and sounds a beaten man

USP!!! 

He’s bigged up every team we’ve played just in case

Talks a lot, says nowt

Would rather lick up someone’s cold spew than listen to the shite coming from his mouth. Thinks he knows it all but knows **** all.

Back to basics already he says.... POMO and Bomb Alley binned

Watched 40 seconds and had to switch it off.

I would drop the Mr marra, He is losing my respect rapidly

Absolute Whopper

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 19/02/2021 at 12:27, SecretSam said:

Sorry, but those accounts are for the whole club, are they? Not just playing staff.  

And for a realistic comparison, you'd need to benchmark them against what other teams in the same league were spending. Year-on-year comparisons aren't valid as the spending needed to be competitive in the Championship has risen ahead of inflation.

Apologies to Dave if he's already covered this point but that's the total wage bill, yes.

All counts towards FFP, consolidated accounts are used for this. The bulk will be football (probably player based) wages in any case.

You're right about Championship wages rising faster than inflation. Faster than TV/Solidarity money growth is another useful benchmark.

[City1970]

On 10/02/2021 at 00:48, Portland Bill said:

Potentially, or potentially not.

Strange how SL’s cheque book was found after he sacked SC wasn’t it.

SC gave us fans the best season in decades, he deserved some loyalty from the owner imo. 

I don't trust the Lansdowns, you don't make billions by being honest and truthful. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Apologies to Dave if he's already covered this point but that's the total wage bill, yes.

All counts towards FFP, consolidated accounts are used for this. The bulk will be football (probably player based) wages in any case.

You're right about Championship wages rising faster than inflation. Faster than TV/Solidarity money growth is another useful benchmark.

Just listening to SL in 2013.  He said club wage bill of £18m of which £16m was playing staff.

[Harry]

On 19/02/2021 at 15:42, LondonBristolian said:

I think the problem is that people are naturally very selective with what they remember about managers. It's selective to ignore the utterly superb job Steve Cotterill did in League One, and the brilliant football we made, but it's equally selective to ignore the fact he was doing a very good job of taking us back there when he got sacked. Meanwhile Lee Johnson did a good job in parts - the League Cup run, turning a relegation threatened side into promotion challengers - but we had the dire losing streak in his second season and, as you say, we went through several awful spells in his last season. We were dreadful in January and February and then abysmal when we came back after the restart. There's no doubt at all that it was time for Johnson to go but we were very decent for spells under him. There is no doubt that we were brilliant in 2014/2015 underr Cotterill but we were dreadful in 15/16 and would have been relegated without a change of manager.

People seem to feel the need to set up this slightly bizarre Cotterill fan vs Johnson fan rivalry where they wholly praise one and wholly trash the other but, with both managers, it was way more complex than that. 

Yes. I think there is a fair amount of selectivity when remembering Cotterills reign. 
Let me be clear, I totally loved him in that double winning season. It was fantastic. But think back to his early days. 
He arrived when we were 2 points from safety and a -5 gd. After his first 14 games, he only had 4 wins and we were still 2 points from safety and -8 gd. It was only when a member of the CSF was allowed in the dressing room vs Gillingham that the players started taking our plight seriously and the last 13 games after that they won 7 and drew 5. 
I put that superb run of results as much down to Divvy and his honest assessment, as much as to SC’s motivation of the troops who’d just won 2 in 10 games!! 
 

Of course, the rest is history and if I ever see Cotts (which I have done) I am always forever grateful to him for that 14/15 season. But let’s not kid ourselves to think he was an instant success - it was only Divvy’s intervention that saved us that season! 
 

Cotts struggled at the start, was excellent in the middle, and then struggled at the end. But he’ll always be well regarded. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Harry

[NickJ]

51 minutes ago, Harry said:

Yes. I think there is a fair amount of selectivity when remembering Cotterills reign. 
Let me be clear, I totally loved him in that double winning season. It was fantastic. But think back to his early days. 
He arrived when we were 2 points from safety and a -5 gd. After his first 14 games, he only had 4 wins and we were still 2 points from safety and -8 gd. It was only when a member of the CSF was allowed in the dressing room vs Gillingham that the players started taking our plight seriously and the last 13 games after that they won 7 and drew 5. 
I put that superb run of results as much down to Divvy and his honest assessment, as much as to SC’s motivation of the troops who’d just won 2 in 10 games!! 
 

Of course, the rest is history and if I ever see Cotts (which I have done) I am always forever grateful to him for that 14/15 season. But let’s not kid ourselves to think he was an instant success - it was only Divvy’s intervention that saved us that season! 
 

Cotts struggled at the start, was excellent in the middle, and then struggled at the end. But he’ll always be well regarded. 

Are you actually being serious Harry?

Before Cotterill we had 2 wins from 19 games with 15 points. That's 0.78 points per game.

You could take various periods afer he arrived, but to focus on his first 14 games yes it was 4 wins but with 5 draws and 5 defeats and 17 points. That's 1.2 points per game.

So statistically Cotterill improved us by 50% in his first 14 games.

That took us to the beginning of February by which time Cotts had sorted out the shit and brought in what he could in the transfer window, which enabled him to continue his improvement which was nothing short of miraculous.

Give the bloke a bit of credit mate.

[And Its Smith]

Sunderland fans hated him and now love him.  What a surprise.  

[Phileas Fogg]

On 19/02/2021 at 15:45, Robbored said:

I went on to the Sunderland forum to give them some insight into what they could expect from LJ as a gesture of goodwill amongst football fans - what an ignorant bunch! 

 

Please don't do that on our behalf, you'll give us all a bad name!

[Harry]

25 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Are you actually being serious Harry?

Before Cotterill we had 2 wins from 19 games with 15 points. That's 0.78 points per game.

You could take various periods afer he arrived, but to focus on his first 14 games yes it was 4 wins but with 5 draws and 5 defeats and 17 points. That's 1.2 points per game.

So statistically Cotterill improved us by 50% in his first 14 games.

That took us to the beginning of February by which time Cotts had sorted out the shit and brought in what he could in the transfer window, which enabled him to continue his improvement which was nothing short of miraculous.

Give the bloke a bit of credit mate.

Ha ha. I knew you’d bite Nick

Course I’m not serious. But I did want to make the very valid point that the real upturn didn’t happen until Divvy gave them a good talking to.

[NickJ]

54 minutes ago, Harry said:

Ha ha. I knew you’d bite Nick

Course I’m not serious. But I did want to make the very valid point that the real upturn didn’t happen until Divvy gave them a good talking to.

No so sure those stats weren’t meant to be serious mate but anyway fair play to Divvy for saving the season!

[Alex_BCFC]

Well he’s got Sunderland on a pretty good run - always a very streaky manager. Hope he gets them up as love a weekend up there. 

[Phileas Fogg]

38 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Well he’s got Sunderland on a pretty good run - always a very streaky manager. Hope he gets them up as love a weekend up there. 

Yeah doing really well. Seeing as this thread started with negative comments from Sunderland fans.. lots of ones like this now. 

It’ll be interesting to see if Johnson can maintain it. They look to have a really good side there. Charlie Wyke scoring almost every game and Aidan McGeady performing really well too.

[Cardy]

I hope he does well there. A promotion on his CV would do him the world of good.
We have moved on though & are currently punching well above LJ’s level.

[Davefevs]

He’s doing well after a mini-wobble a while back.  Playoffs minimum, pushing for top 2.

[Bristol Rob]

11 minutes ago, Cardy said:

I hope he does well there. A promotion on his CV would do him the world of good.
We have moved on though & are currently punching well above LJ’s level.

Err, technically we aren't punching above LJ's level.

We are currently a midtable side, and based on completed seasons, LJ made us closer to a top 6 side.

Not saying I would swap LJ for NP, just saying that for a club of our size, he did okay.

[Robbored]

Wyke has bagged 26 goals so far - he had 11 when LJ took over. He’s already on the radar of other bigger clubs. It’ll be interesting to see how Sunderland cope without their main man next season.

Depends if they get promoted I guess.

[Alex_BCFC]

4 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Err, technically we aren't punching above LJ's level.

We are currently a midtable side, and based on completed seasons, LJ made us closer to a top 6 side.

Not saying I would swap LJ for NP, just saying that for a club of our size, he did okay.

As you say we are now further away than LJ had us and I agree he did OK (nothing more less nothing less) but yeh definitely wouldn't swap.

[BCFC_95]

Let’s say 5-10 years down the line, LJ has a couple of L1 promotions on his CV with whoever, and turns them into an established Championship top half team, would anyone take him back? 

[E.G.Red]

On 18/02/2021 at 08:59, dREDful said:

He'd probably need a whole new personality too. I liked him as a player, thought he received a massive amount of necessary stick. 

As a manager though, Jesus... I'm still 100% sure we will be the only Championship club e ever manages and that was down to nepotism, again. 

If he fails to take Sunderland up all his guff in the world won't be able to answer in any future interview "How have you managed for 8 years and never earned a promotion?".

At some stage his CV will be louder than his PowerPoint and David Brent squeaks. 

 

Are you still 100% sure? I think he's reaping the benefit of managing a club on merit and not being tainted with accusations of nepotism.

No doubt he's relishing his possible  return to the gate next season .

[italian dave]

25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Wyke has bagged 26 goals so far - he had 11 when LJ took over. He’s already on the radar of other bigger clubs. It’ll be interesting to see how Sunderland cope without their main man next season.

Depends if they get promoted I guess.

Well, LJ has certainly had experience of losing his best players on a regular basis. 

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Well he’s got Sunderland on a pretty good run - always a very streaky manager. Hope he gets them up as love a weekend up there. 

38 years ago I was slagging a bit of stuff at Sunderland Poly. Delipdated Shithole (no don’t do it) with 60s shopping centers. Always remember being told in a pub there she couldn’t have a pint of lager but they would do two halves. What a place!

Mind you I have Roker Park on my CV!

Edited March 9, 2021 by REDOXO

[Mr Popodopolous]

His time here, he will learnt from that- it'll make/have made him a better manager/head coach IMO.

Not saying I thought he deployed players right- see technical but relatively slight CMs in a 2 or a 2 with a non third true CM, or Benkovic not getting a proper crack, or Henriksen in a 2 and that's just last season to list a few- then there was the Magnússon at Preston but he'll have learned and his stint here might well be to Sunderland's gain.

I believe he was quite good with younger players, those on the rise or those from lower levels- but those who were used to a higher level than he has played at, be they ex PL, International, from strong academies- and this second category can cut across age groups, he had his flaws.

[cityexile]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

He’s doing well after a mini-wobble a while back.  Playoffs minimum, pushing for top 2.

Not beyond the realms of possibility he could end up doing a ‘Cotts double’ this season. 

[A Horse With No Name]

4 hours ago, BCFC_95 said:

Let’s say 5-10 years down the line, LJ has a couple of L1 promotions on his CV with whoever, and turns them into an established Championship top half team, would anyone take him back? 

Well that depends where we are obviously. Could be in the Prem, or could be League 2.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

9 hours ago, REDOXO said:

38 years ago I was slagging a bit of stuff at Sunderland Poly. Delipdated Shithole (no don’t do it) with 60s shopping centers. Always remember being told in a pub there she couldn’t have a pint of lager but they would do two halves. What a place!

Mind you I have Roker Park on my CV!

‘slagging a bit of stuff’?  Ah, romance isn’t dead!

[Bainsey]

"It's the Ying and the Yang versus the release of the attacking players, quality and flare more importantly, versus the steel..."

Sorry Lee?

[Phileas Fogg]

10 hours ago, Robbored said:

Wyke has bagged 26 goals so far - he had 11 when LJ took over. He’s already on the radar of other bigger clubs. It’ll be interesting to see how Sunderland cope without their main man next season.

Depends if they get promoted I guess.

Wyke looks great. I know it's at L1 level, but he looks like a very good potential Diedhiou replacement. 

Fun to watch too, I like an old school centre forward like him. 

[italian dave]

4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Wyke looks great. I know it's at L1 level, but he looks like a very good potential Diedhiou replacement. 

Fun to watch too, I like an old school centre forward like him. 

I can still remember watching Milan Djuric get a proper old fashioned centre forwards goal for us, under LJ, - and at Sunderland. 

[Robbored]

17 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Wyke looks great. I know it's at L1 level, but he looks like a very good potential Diedhiou replacement. 

Fun to watch too, I like an old school centre forward like him. 

There’ll be a quite a number of suitors for Wyke as there was for Ivan Toney but City weren’t willing/able to cough up what Posh were asking and he ends up at the Bees and look how impressive he’s been. He was a lost opportunity imo.

Hope a scenario like that doesn’t develop with Wyke 

[Phileas Fogg]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

There’ll be a quite a number of suitors for Wyke as there was for Ivan Toney but City weren’t willing/able to cough up what Posh were asking and he ends up at the Bees and look how impressive he’s been. He was a lost opportunity imo.

Hope a scenario like that doesn’t develop with Wyke 

Completely different comparison because Wyke is 29 next month. 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Completely different comparison because Wyke is 29 next month. 

I hadn’t realised that. I’d never heard of him before. Might be a one season wonder..........

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

I hadn’t realised that. I’d never heard of him before. Might be a one season wonder..........

No, he's had several good seasons in the lower leagues. An over a 1 in 3 goalscoring record at his last 3 clubs which is very solid. 

Whether that can translate to Championship is a different question - but he looks the part to me. 

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Completely different comparison because Wyke is 29 next month. 

Was gonna post the same last night, but was trying to find the OTIB thread on him from a couple of seasons back, when he scored a hat-trick against the gas and posters were clamouring for him then (whilst at Bradford).

Good scoring record over past few seasons.

The kind of player who you’d think would be better off staying at Sunderland, even if they don’t go up.

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Was gonna post the same last night, but was trying to find the OTIB thread on him from a couple of seasons back, when he scored a hat-trick against the gas and posters were clamouring for him then (whilst at Bradford).

Good scoring record over past few seasons.

The kind of player who you’d think would be better off staying at Sunderland, even if they don’t go up.

Based on his career history he's always favoured Northern clubs so perhaps has family from the area. I could see him going to a northern club like Stoke, Huddersfield or Sheffield United if they come down. 

The reason I like him is because I've always enjoyed his style of forward. I liked Adebola, Brooker, Djuric, Wilbraham etc. Always something so satisfying about a headed goal. 

I think Sunderland probably will go up as they have momentum at the moment, it'll be interesting to see whether Johnson has learned how to manage any blips.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Phileas Fogg

[ashton_fan]

11 hours ago, BCFC_95 said:

Let’s say 5-10 years down the line, LJ has a couple of L1 promotions on his CV with whoever, and turns them into an established Championship top half team, would anyone take him back? 

If I was him I wouldn't come back here with all the negative vibes from many going back to his playing days, better to go somewhere where he starts with a clean slate (as with Sunderland). When he came here before he wanted to establish himself at Championship level, he achieved that. The only way he'd come back if he was offered a job here and we were in the Prem, but can't ever see that happening.

[Bris Red]

Fair play to Lee if he does take them up, he massively needs a promotion on his CV. 

[Robin101]

Johnstone's Paint Trophy final on Sunday for LJ. Wembley against Tranmere, the division below. 

Surely going to be his first piece of silverware?

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

Johnstone's Paint Trophy final on Sunday for LJ. Wembley against Tranmere, the division below. 

Surely going to be his first piece of silverware?

You'd think so. I'd like to see it.

It's very feasible they could win the League 1 double as we did. They're 5 points off Hull in 1st but have two games in hand. 

[Robbored]

55 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Was gonna post the same last night, but was trying to find the OTIB thread on him from a couple of seasons back, when he scored a hat-trick against the gas and posters were clamouring for him then (whilst at Bradford).

Good scoring record over past few seasons.

The kind of player who you’d think would be better off staying at Sunderland, even if they don’t go up.

Why do you think that Dave? Surely at 29 he’d fancy a move to a ‘bigger’ club with all the financial rewards that go with it. 

He’s got around 4 or 5 years left so it would make sense for him make as much money as he can.

[Lrrr]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You'd think so. I'd like to see it.

It's very feasible they could win the League 1 double as we did. They're 5 points off Hull in 1st but have two games in hand. 

Win the last 13 and they can get 99 points as well, written in the stars 

[Bristol Rob]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You'd think so. I'd like to see it.

It's very feasible they could win the League 1 double as we did. They're 5 points off Hull in 1st but have two games in hand. 

Sounds as if Sunderland are starting to play with 'identity' and passing the ball quickly and playing attacking football.

Which is what we were treated to that season when we had a strong League Cup run.

Then the random transfer policy kicked in fully coupled with a new tombola and everything started going to shit.

[Super]

18 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

Johnstone's Paint Trophy final on Sunday for LJ. Wembley against Tranmere, the division below. 

Surely going to be his first piece of silverware?

Weirdly last seasons final is the day before?!

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Why do you think that Dave? Surely at 29 he’d fancy a move to a ‘bigger’ club with all the financial rewards that go with it. 

He’s got around 4 or 5 years left so it would make sense for him make as much money as he can.

Partly because it’s quite possible he’s on decent money already (Sunderland will be paying more than some Champ clubs), playing every week....and no guarantee that the type of club he might go to will be able to offer him the financial rewards that outweigh his current (rumoured) £6k+ p.w. And guarantees of playing.

Only my thoughts.

[dREDful]

11 hours ago, E.G.Red said:

Are you still 100% sure? I think he's reaping the benefit of managing a club on merit and not being tainted with accusations of nepotism.

No doubt he's relishing his possible  return to the gate next season .

Very much so. It's not like he's never had a good run before when he's had injuries. I would expect him to lose in the play offs (it is Sunderland after all), lose some players, sign some players, struggle to know what he wants to do and history repeats itself. 

Ultimately I'm not fussed either way, that's just my prediction, he's gone thankfully. One thing I know is that looking at how our players can barely execute the most basic of football skills during a match day these days (and it's been getting progressively worse over the last few years to this point) I am delighted we will never have him, Holden and Macca "coaching" anyone at this football club again. 

Sunderland can go up or stay down, we should feel lucky he's not our problem anymore. 

[Phileas Fogg]

18 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Sounds as if Sunderland are starting to play with 'identity' and passing the ball quickly and playing attacking football.

Which is what we were treated to that season when we had a strong League Cup run.

Then the random transfer policy kicked in fully coupled with a new tombola and everything started going to shit.

I always thought it would be interesting to see what Johnson could do if he had (as far as I know) more autonomy over transfers and had to work with what he had.

I think he can clearly spot a good player and improve them. The job here was probably too early for him really so all things considered he did a decent job. 

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Sounds as if Sunderland are starting to play with 'identity' and passing the ball quickly and playing attacking football.

Which is what we were treated to that season when we had a strong League Cup run.

Then the random transfer policy kicked in fully coupled with a new tombola and everything started going to shit.

I believe at Sunderland LJs one signing has been Winchester from FGR, who he had at Oldham - so clearly his decision. 
 

What I’m wondering is whether he will keep control of transfer policy. 

This may clarify the LJ/MA debate..
 

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Partly because it’s quite possible he’s on decent money already (Sunderland will be paying more than some Champ clubs), playing every week....and no guarantee that the type of club he might go to will be able to offer him the financial rewards that outweigh his current (rumoured) £6k+ p.w. And guarantees of playing.

Only my thoughts.

A different view for sure. 

When ‘possibles’ like Wyke crop up from a lower league I get several thoughts on how such a player might be attracted to a club like City

My first thought is always money. Many players are motivated my it and City could afford to up his wages along with a 3 year contract with various add ons including the option of an extra year.

I then think that money apart, the desire to play at the highest level possible is another attraction for many players.

Then I consider the players age and with Wyke at 29 will have 4 maybe 5 years left at a decent level. After that the big money pretty much stops 

If Big Nige likes him and with LJ being a former manager and aware of the financial situation at AG - who knows what might happen.

[MC RISK77]

I like Lee and glad he is doing well, I think he will take them up this year and also win the EFL.

Sunderland are starting to appear more on my weekly bets and looks like he has some real momentum

[Major Isewater]

On 19/02/2021 at 15:50, SecretSam said:

OK, fair enough. One thought that does occur: do we have to overpay on wages because of where we are? London, midlands or north west clubs all have other clubs near. We don't, so if you settle here, there's more of a risk of upheaval? Just a thought.

We have , traditionally, ‘ overpaid ‘ on wages to attract players to an unfashionable club.

In our Old First Division days we were one of the highest payers.

Peter McCormack got a big wage increase coming from Liverpool, as he wrote in his book.

We can only imagine what the other ‘ star ‘ men were on but Norman Hunter and Joe Royle would not have upped sticks for the pleasure of a relegation battle with a club in the West Country with a history of mediocrity without some sort of incentive.

Whilst geographically we aren’t in a footballing hotbed I don’t believe that that is a major concern for today’s players who would be looking more at whether they could advance their careers at Ashton Gate than the proximity of their friends and family, Josh Brownhill being a good example. 
 

 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

A different view for sure. 

When ‘possibles’ like Wyke crop up from a lower league I get several thoughts on how such a player might be attracted to a club like City

My first thought is always money. Many players are motivated my it and City could afford to up his wages along with a 3 year contract with various add ons including the option of an extra year.

I then think that money apart, the desire to play at the highest level possible is another attraction for many players.

Then I consider the players age and with Wyke at 29 will have 4 maybe 5 years left at a decent level. After that the big money pretty much stops 

If Big Nige likes him and with LJ being a former manager and aware of the financial situation at AG - who knows what might happen.

The big questions (amongst others) for a player at this age (any age really) are:

• is he having a purple patch?
• why has he been in bottom two divisions all his career
• does he look like he can step-up to the level above
• is he just about goals, what’s the rest of his game like
• are the goals he scores transferable to Champ, e.g. does he score a lot of 1-on-1s from long balls, because you see less of them at the level above
• is he scoring because he’s in a good side, how has he performed in a lesser side, is he linking well with a particular player
• etc etc

Before you start looking at how he’d fit into your current or potential system.  That’s where you hope Talent ID does it’s stuff.

Im sure he’s on lots of clubs radars, on the volume of goals scored.  Rightly so.  But he’s a very different type of player to Toney.

Im not dismissing him as a target for any champ club, just giving some thoughts.

[Harry]

5 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I believe at Sunderland LJs one signing has been Winchester from FGR, who he had at Oldham - so clearly his decision. 
 

What I’m wondering is whether he will keep control of transfer policy. 

This may clarify the LJ/MA debate..
 

They are appointing a new ‘Head Scout’ at the end of this month. 
It’ll be interesting to see what ‘type’ this will be, ie someone in a exec position appointed by the new owner (ie an Ashton-type) or someone with a true football recruitment background (ie a Burt-type). 

[Kid in the Riot]

Seems he's been bestowed the highest honour Sunderland has to offer. He's had a pizzeria named after him.

 

[petehinton]

13 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Seems he's been bestowed the highest honour Sunderland has to offer. He's had a pizzeria named after him.

 

Is a Papa Johns PR stunt for the game Sunday apparently. One for tranmere too