Sunderland fans loving POMO’s and USP’s

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I'm baffled by two things: the decision by Sunderland (they're THIRD), and the (continued) hatred for LJ on here.

Yes, things went wrong towards the end, but was that all down to him? We had some tremendous results and let's not forget, we were in a real mess when he took over.

It was the right time to let him go from AG, but this decision by Sunderland is nuts.

And exactly the same when he left.

Sure Sunderland are third but LJ was sacked after his team got stuffed 6-0 - now that kind of result is relatively commonplace throughout the leagues and managers don’t usually get sacked on the back of it.  LJ getting relived of his duties suggests to me that there were other behind the scenes going’s on. Maybe the players weren’t on board the LJ train and possibly his man management skills were the same as his dads and that what’s really lies behind him getting the elbow…………

I have some sympathy for him tho - he’s still living in the shadow of his father and trying desperately to become a success on his own back and so far he’s failed miserably.

[Fordy62]

5 hours ago, RedLionLad said:

Johnson lost just 18 games out of 78 at Sunderland. 
 

As a comparison, Pearson has lost 23 out of 45.

Wayne Rooney has won 8 league games this season. 
 

As a comparison, Joey Barton has won 10. 
 

It’s good this game isn’t it?

[Major Isewater]

8 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Wayne Rooney has won 8 league games this season. 
 

As a comparison, Joey Barton has won 10. 
 

It’s good this game isn’t it?

Joey Barton to Sunderland ? 
 

[RedLionLad]

20 minutes ago, Ecko said:

The difference between league 1 and championship is huge. Pointless comparison.

The point is, without the 3 or 4 poor results, Johnson’s record at Sunderland (losing 18 out of 78 and winning a trophy) was pretty good…….and would have been the exactly the same had they been narrowly beaten in those 3 or 4 games.

[Monkeh]

No surprise he was sacked,

While he can turn around a clubs fortune he doesn't have what it takes to take the club to the next level or get promotion,.expect him to be Ipswich manager next season so ashton can get his yes man

[RedRoss]

I think one of LJ's biggest downfalls is his connection to fans. I'm not sure why maybe its the 'Brent' like phrases ect but it seems wherever he goes he rubs up some fans the wrong way with him just being himself. Even opposition fans seemed to dislike him too.

I think Sunderland was a very bad choice as their fans have got a sense of entitlement whenever I look on their forum. They may well be punching below their apparent club size and have for a while but they're expectation is very high so the chances of appeasing that fanbase was always going to be difficult.

 

[BrizzleRed]

34 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I'm baffled by two things: the decision by Sunderland (they're THIRD), and the (continued) hatred for LJ on here.

Yes, things went wrong towards the end, but was that all down to him? We had some tremendous results and let's not forget, we were in a real mess when he took over.

It was the right time to let him go from AG, but this decision by Sunderland is nuts.

Were we really??  Granted, Cotts threw his toys out of the pram when he felt he wasn’t being backed and results took a dive, but there was a very good, if small squad there.

Do you honestly believe that double winning squad LJ inherited was more of a mess than the bloated squad of overpaid misfits and dross he left us with and we’re still trying to clear out?

 

[RedLionLad]

4 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

I think one of LJ's biggest downfalls is his connection to fans. I'm not sure why maybe its the 'Brent' like phrases ect but it seems wherever he goes he rubs up some fans the wrong way with him just being himself. Even opposition fans seemed to dislike him too.

I think Sunderland was a very bad choice as their fans have got a sense of entitlement whenever I look on their forum. They may well be punching below their apparent club size and have for a while but they're expectation is very high so the chances of appeasing that fanbase was always going to be difficult.

 

A few poor results under a new manager will make for some decent ‘content’ on their forums.

[dREDful]

Confused by the whole "they're third" and "I hope they stay down now" shouts. 

If they stuck with LJ they were staying down and they're clinging onto third at the moment. 

7 league wins in 17 league games - that is not promotion form - Sunderland have looked at the last 17 games of LJ's career and the rest of it to correctly identify that they would remain a League One side under him. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they can find their way back into the top two should they appoint someone with knowledge on promotion. 

LJ is, as he always was, a failure again. 

[sglosbcfc]

At least they have given the new manager plenty of opportunity to operate in the transfer window!

[Fordy62]

13 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

I think one of LJ's biggest downfalls is his connection to fans. I'm not sure why maybe its the 'Brent' like phrases ect but it seems wherever he goes he rubs up some fans the wrong way with him just being himself. Even opposition fans seemed to dislike him too.

 

My dislike for LJ is two fold. First the nepotism under which he landed our job and was treated more favourably than any manager ever - especially given Cotts’ lack of backing and eagerness to be sacked - although granted this isn’t anything that LJ had any control over himself. 
 

Secondly and probably more importantly it’s the fact that he tries to be clever. He comes up with all this bollocks while not playing players in their positions. Measuring grass, speaking to ex military, spending time in a Michelin starred restaurant. Honestly, what bollocks. It may get him the odd newspaper article for innovation, but his attempts at being clever don’t impress your average football fan. Then there’s his lack of humility.

Wherever he goes, he’d be well advised to tone it down, not throw players under the bus and accept his mistakes. 

[Monkeh]

Oh for what it's worth, I think he was a very underrated player and the main reason we didn't go up was him getting injured

As a manager he was decent enough, but his record at home was awful and always set a team to counter opposition instead of trying to win a game,

We have some great memories under him but equally the mess we are in now is his fault,

[tin]

45 minutes ago, Robbored said:

And exactly the same when he left.

Sure Sunderland are third but LJ was sacked after his team got stuffed 6-0 - now that kind of result is relatively commonplace throughout the leagues and managers don’t usually get sacked on the back of it.  LJ getting relived of his duties suggests to me that there were other behind the scenes going’s on. Maybe the players weren’t on board the LJ train and possibly his man management skills were the same as his dads and that what’s really lies behind him getting the elbow…………

I have some sympathy for him tho - he’s still living in the shadow of his father and trying desperately to become a success on his own back and so far he’s failed miserably.

Agreed he’s failed miserably but I’ve got no sympathy for him. Him being sacked by us and now Sunderland will have added to the millions of pounds he already has, and don’t forget he has his property empire to fall back on.

He’s a good coach with a track record of improving players and nothing else IMO. 

[lenred]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yet, he slagged off his dad to a forum member (at a Q&A session) along the lines of “my dad is just a good man-manager of lower league players”.  That’s pretty dismissive, and lack of recognition of his own weaknesses in man-management.  He might’ve had a better tactical brain than his dad, but you need more than that.

Did he really? Wow, that’s incredible.  I’m sure there must’ve been context to it as I can’t imagine him saying that seriously tbf?  I’d hope so anyway. 

[IAmNick]

I didn't like or rate LJ as a player, at all, and yes that affected my opinion of him as a manager I'll admit it. I was in utter, utter disbelief when he was appointed and incredibly disappointed.

I did give him a chance once he was here though, and I think he did an OK job. Unremarkable really, like him as a player. The Man U win was the equivalent of his one "clever" dinked little chip at a free kick which worked, out of the 50 he chipped to nobody or into the wall.

However it was also extremely boring, and I genuinely felt my passion for City disappearing in his last year or two which really annoyed me. Combined with the nonsense with Ashton I was thoroughly sick of the pair of them, and extremely happy when he got the boot. I didn't think he had many likeable qualities, and even during some of the highs he somehow managed to say something stupid and make me facepalm a bit (didn't he buy Mourinho an expensive bottle of wine to talk tactics after the match or something ffs?!)

For that reason I checked out his results at Sunderland - he was doing a good job earlier in the season, but yeah there was definitely a smirk or a bit of a laugh when they got thumped. 

Some people take it too far but it's all football pantomime for me. I don't hate the bloke, I'm sure he's a nice enough guy and he definitely gives it his all which is admirable, but I have found what's happened quite amusing... all part of the fun of the game for me. Some ex players I look out for and am happy they're doing well, some I'm happy when they screw it up.

Having those characters is part of what makes the game fun for me, and LJ will always be a big one for us now whatever you think of him...

[And Its Smith]

22 minutes ago, dREDful said:

Confused by the whole "they're third" and "I hope they stay down now" shouts. 

If they stuck with LJ they were staying down and they're clinging onto third at the moment. 

7 league wins in 17 league games - that is not promotion form - Sunderland have looked at the last 17 games of LJ's career and the rest of it to correctly identify that they would remain a League One side under him. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they can find their way back into the top two should they appoint someone with knowledge on promotion. 

LJ is, as he always was, a failure again. 

7 wins from 14 games isn’t bad. Over the last 10 games they are 3rd in the form table. Being 3rd in the league when going for promotion, in January, isn’t a failure really. 

[IAmNick]

8 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

7 wins from 14 games isn’t bad. Over the last 10 games they are 3rd in the form table. Being 3rd in the league when going for promotion, in January, isn’t a failure really. 

It's not, but Wigan (2nd) have 4 games in hand on them, and Rotherham (1st) have 2. Just giving the positions doesn't quite paint the full picture of recent results and the standings:

[RUSSEL85]

Sunderland now linked with Jermaine Defoe, I’m thinking more as a player as opposed to a manager. Wonder if they have someone already in place

[Super]

20 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

Sunderland now linked with Jermaine Defoe, I’m thinking more as a player as opposed to a manager. Wonder if they have someone already in place

Signed now.

[the1stknowle]

7 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

If cotts is going to be lauded as a ‘double winner’, then Johnson deserves credit for an EFL trophy. 

Some of the replies on this thread are oddly personal. The Lee Johnson years didn’t come close to other, genuine horrors of the past. Yes, he was given time and money, and at our worst we were drab, but at our best we could be scintillating. 

His era had excitement and some of the loftiest heights we experienced in the previous decade. Compare this to other managers of the last 10-20 years who barely even left with a memorable win on their city CV. 
 

The truth is, there is, was, and always will be, some kind of strange personal vendetta against Lee Johnson from sections of our fan base. I don’t understand it, you don’t know the man. He was the manager of your football team, but some of you have such deeply personal character assessments that you can’t possibly be basing solely on that? 
 

Yeah - this is exactly how I feel. What has happened after he left has, by some, been accepted as fact as being down to LJ. Which I've never understood.

For me he took us from perennial relegation to always in and around playoffs and changed the expectations we have in championship. And we got to the semi finals of a cup, where we didn't embarrass ourselves in any way.

It's well past changing anyone's mind on LJ. Opinions are now set. But I will never understand the joy some people here seem to take in things going badly for him ( if by 'badly' I mean a pay off likely to be approaching seven figures. Ouch!)

Over a year at Sunderland, the clear fact is he won more than one out of every two games they play. I know some Sunderland fans think that is 'the bare minimum Sunderland should be doing' ... but they are wrong. A 50% win ratio outside of the massive dominant sides in Europe is very very impressive. It should be evidence that he has something about him as a manager.

[pongo88]

8 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Random shout for his next job, England age group stuff, think the U20’s are without a coach atm. Takes him out of the league spotlight for now.

I’m not sure if there is a vacancy, but this could be a good option for him as being an England manager of any sort would suit his ego.  SoD managed the England U19s after he left City. 

1 hour ago, RedRoss said:

I think one of LJ's biggest downfalls is his connection to fans. I'm not sure why maybe its the 'Brent' like phrases ect but it seems wherever he goes he rubs up some fans the wrong way with him just being himself. Even opposition fans seemed to dislike him too.

I think Sunderland was a very bad choice as their fans have got a sense of entitlement whenever I look on their forum. They may well be punching below their apparent club size and have for a while but they're expectation is very high so the chances of appeasing that fanbase was always going to be difficult.

 

In a way I think you’re right about Sunderland being a bad choice, but when you’re an unemployed football manager you’ve got to take what you can get. After being sacked by City, his options were somewhat limited. He wouldn’t have been offered a Premier League job. There was limited opportunity at Championship level and he probably wouldn’t have wanted a job at a small League One, or below, club. Now, I think his options are far more limited - League One or abroad at a lower level.  Perhaps the latter option would be best as his use of strange jargon might sound intelligent in other countries where supporters don’t speak English 

[IAmNick]

12 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

Over a year at Sunderland, the clear fact is he won more than one out of every two games they play. I know some Sunderland fans think that is 'the bare minimum Sunderland should be doing' ... but they are wrong. A 50% win ratio outside of the massive dominant sides in Europe is very very impressive. It should be evidence that he has something about him as a manager.

Is it? It's all relative to the clubs stature in the league surely.

Sunderland fired their manager before last when they were in 6th, and he had over a 50% win rate as well.

[maxjak]

14 hours ago, Red Alert said:

I like him but a team vying for promotion do not lose 6:0. Think they’ll look back at this as a brutal but smart move if they hire the right successor.

Blackburn?

[Ben1980]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

I didn't like or rate LJ as a player, at all, and yes that affected my opinion of him as a manager I'll admit it. I was in utter, utter disbelief when he was appointed and incredibly disappointed.

I did give him a chance once he was here though, and I think he did an OK job. Unremarkable really, like him as a player. The Man U win was the equivalent of his one "clever" dinked little chip at a free kick which worked, out of the 50 he chipped to nobody or into the wall.

However it was also extremely boring, and I genuinely felt my passion for City disappearing in his last year or two which really annoyed me. Combined with the nonsense with Ashton I was thoroughly sick of the pair of them, and extremely happy when he got the boot. I didn't think he had many likeable qualities, and even during some of the highs he somehow managed to say something stupid and make me facepalm a bit (didn't he buy Mourinho an expensive bottle of wine to talk tactics after the match or something ffs?!)

For that reason I checked out his results at Sunderland - he was doing a good job earlier in the season, but yeah there was definitely a smirk or a bit of a laugh when they got thumped. 

Some people take it too far but it's all football pantomime for me. I don't hate the bloke, I'm sure he's a nice enough guy and he definitely gives it his all which is admirable, but I have found what's happened quite amusing... all part of the fun of the game for me. Some ex players I look out for and am happy they're doing well, some I'm happy when they screw it up.

Having those characters is part of what makes the game fun for me, and LJ will always be a big one for us now whatever you think of him...

My feelings towards LJ are similar to yours- pretty ambivalent really. Don’t like him that much but don’t dislike him that much either. Much more warmth towards Cotts who I would root for elsewhere. 
 

As others have said, I always felt that LJ would have been better off focusing on the basics (man management, consistency in team selection etc) rather than messing around in Michelin star restaurants. Thankfully it feels like we now have a manager who talks with clarity and has a non-nonsense approach which I personally much prefer. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Ben1980

[maxjak]

14 hours ago, weepywall said:

2 points off the top of the league...bad defeat yesterday but strange decision.

Their Chairman is an entitled impulsive 24 year old........probably threw a hissy fit, after his dad told him off?

[Davefevs]

9 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Random shout for his next job, England age group stuff, think the U20’s are without a coach atm. Takes him out of the league spotlight for now.

He isn’t gonna take a low paid job like that, nor would he get day to day involvement.

Its a bonkers sacking don’t get me wrong, but I’m not sure where LJ goes from here.

[BTRFTG]

To those still not getting why Sunderland acted as they did, let's put in terms you may understand.

There are two types in life: those who pay to take their perfectly performing cars in for service and those who think it wiser to save money and act only when the warning lights appear. They're easy to distinguish, the former putting miles very quickly between themselves and the latter who await rescue on the hard shoulder.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Ipswich next season 

I did wonder whether Ashton was thinking, darn I went too early on McKenna.

[Selred]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

possibly his man management skills were the same as his dads and that what’s really lies behind him getting the elbow……

I thought actually that was one of Gary's strong points! Let's be honest we weren't tactically Brazil, we had a lot of grifters fighting for the shirt under GJ.

[RedM]

He was never going to get the patience he had here, but getting sacked when sitting well placed for promotion, again, does seem harsh. It's almost like they were waiting for an excuse to sack him and the result made it easy. Will be interesting to see when he goes to next

[CodeRed]

11 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

When Ipswich do not get promoted this season , then hello LJ 

I think LJ's seen enough of Mark Ashton up close and how he operates - and MA's seen (and heard) enough of how LJ works for both of them to not want to touch each other even with an extremely long bargepole.

[maxjak]

13 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

The ex players I’ve heard on certain podcasts, are far from fond of him

Who are?

[SecretSam]

3 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

Were we really??  Granted, Cotts threw his toys out of the pram when he felt he wasn’t being backed and results took a dive, but there was a very good, if small squad there.

Do you honestly believe that double winning squad LJ inherited was more of a mess than the bloated squad of overpaid misfits and dross he left us with and we’re still trying to clear out?

 

Didn't we only have something like 19 players when he took over - we were a mess. And saying "Oh, he had the double winning squad" - that's the League 1 double, the gap between L1 and the Championship is huge.

The squad comment is right, tho', yes, we were a mess - but I already acknowledged that this time had come here. And I'm not sure that he was entirely to blame for the squad - he was a young manager, with no experience of managing at this level, and possibly influenced too much by others.

I'm not saying he was a rip-roaring success here, but saying he was useless from day one is just nonsense.

[Sleepy1968]

'Johnson said "I'm absolutely shocked. We were in a strong position in the league and whilst the manner of the defeat was disappointing, I thought we were unlucky to lose by 6 at Bolton. I'm going to take a few days break in Guernsey and then maybe I'll jet off to Bermuda for a couple of weeks with the family. I'll be leaving my phone off, so I'll deal with all the job offers when I get back."'

[maxjak]

58 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He isn’t gonna take a low paid job like that, nor would he get day to day involvement.

Its a bonkers sacking don’t get me wrong, but I’m not sure where LJ goes from here.

It Appears to me that  the problem with clubs in the North East is that they want fairly instant success, and do not give manager's sufficient time to create a side. Not a particulary original view I know,, but true?    It's a real knee jerk sacking by a young impulsive Chairman?

Edited January 31, 2022 by maxjak

[TonyTonyTony]

Johnson is currently League 1 manager of the month (December). Such a fickle game

[B1ackbird]

21 minutes ago, maxjak said:

It Appears to me that  the problem with clubs in the North East is that they want fairly instant success, and do not give manager's sufficient time to create a side. Not a particulary original view I know,, but true?    It's a real knee jerk sacking by a young impulsive Chairman?

People could argue we gave him more than enough time, and where did it get us???

[Red-Robbo]

8 minutes ago, B1ackbird said:

People could argue we gave him more than enough time, and where did it get us???

 

At the same time, if we'd released Pearson after 6 months - as a number of fans were asking for - it would've been a big mistake. 

[Harry]

2 hours ago, IAmNick said:

Is it? It's all relative to the clubs stature in the league surely.

Sunderland fired their manager before last when they were in 6th, and he had over a 50% win rate as well.

This is true. 
Jack Ross had lost the playoff final the year before and was sacked after starting the season W 5, D 4, L 2. 
Was sacked to bring in Parkinson, which was an utter joke. He went on to win only 2 of his first 9 games!! 
He was then sacked the next season after starting W 6, D 5, L 2. 
LJ has now been sacked with a record in his last 14 games of W 7, D 5, L2. 
 

It seems that, for the Sunderland owner, if you lose 2 games in the period of 3 months, you aren’t good enough. 
Laughable ownership. 
 

To be honest, I’m actually glad LJ is out of that club. It was the wrong club for him. Contrary to others comments on here, I’m confident his stock is not damaged though. Dismissed from City when in the top 10 in the championship and then dismissed at Sunderland whilst 3rd and with a nearly 52% win ratio. I’d imagine he’ll still be a very sought after manager. 
 

Also, LJ had recently brought in a new head of recruitment. Apparently he is baffled by the decision, so I hear! 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Harry

[ChippenhamRed]

29 minutes ago, B1ackbird said:

People could argue we gave him more than enough time, and where did it get us???

It got us four consecutive seasons of Championship league position improvement, and even when that run ended we still finished a very respectable 12th. Three top-half finishes in a row. So he helped establish us a Championship club and gave us a firm base from which to kick on.

His time here was far from disastrous, we enjoyed some great moments during his tenure (cup run in particular), and his win percentage - without the benefit of any time in the easier League One - compares favourably with any manager in our living memory. And before anyone says "but look how much money he was given" - comparing spending from different eras is entirely irrelevant, if you compare our net spending with that of our rivals, it was never more than mid-table.

I think LJ left at the right time. But personally I think he is worthy of a little more respect than he often gets.

[Gert Mare]

17 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

3 losses in 13 games and 3rd in the league. Very surprised he’s been sacked. Sunderland fans are an odd bunch. One minute they love him and when he loses one or two games they want him gone. 

Our fans can be like that. Loads would sack Pearson before he has been given any money to spend. Ludicrous!

I’m not surprised Johnson had been sacked though. He is the master of inexplicable results, thinks football is a science and bamboozles everyone with utter tactical nonsense and drivel, thinks possession and passing sideways for 80 minutes is important and gets out a tombola when it comes to substitutions. I give him credit for turning Bobby Reid into a striker but as far as game management was concerned he was totally clueless.

People harp on about beating Man United but we were fortunate to have some decent players at the time and it doesn’t take a lot for a team to get fired up to play Man United!

We’ve got the right appointment now, talks sense and I believe that if we had had Pearson in charge during that Carabao Cup season we wouldn’t have totally capitulated, we would have gone up.

If a team at the top of the league gets thrashed 6-0 then there is something seriously wrong with the way they are being managed. Johnson could do nothing to stop the flow of goals because he hasn’t got a clue when it comes to in-game management. He just stands there like a muppet.

Some people need to take off the rose-tinted specs when it comes to Johnson’s reign.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Gert Mare

[the1stknowle]

2 hours ago, IAmNick said:

Is it? It's all relative to the clubs stature in the league surely.

Sunderland fired their manager before last when they were in 6th, and he had over a 50% win rate as well.

Yeah, I think it is. You can argue they shouldn't have sacked Jack Ross. Even if you think they did the right thing, at least he had one entire pre-season and season. LJ didn't even get that. 

They went into Saturday top of the league.

They had lost one other league game since November.

The previous month, he was Manager of Month, taking 14pts from 18 and extending an unbeaten league run to nine games.

They have the division's top goalscorer who is a player LJ signed for peanuts. 

I disagree anything is relative to 'stature' of club. To team and squad strength, budget yeah. Maybe you could argue Sunderland have strongest first team squad but I think Wigan, Ipswich and Rotherham would probably have something to say about that. Sunderland's recent history suggests they are exactly in pyramid where they should be. So the measure he might have been doing badly in is 'relative to fan expectations'. But those expectations are insane. 

Relative to the other teams in league; relative to Sunderland's recent history, LJ was doing a good job. A sticky January of 2 losses, including one bad defeat, and he gets the boot. I still think its incredibly harsh. 

[the1stknowle]

2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

To those still not getting why Sunderland acted as they did, let's put in terms you may understand.

There are two types in life: those who pay to take their perfectly performing cars in for service and those who think it wiser to save money and act only when the warning lights appear. They're easy to distinguish, the former putting miles very quickly between themselves and the latter who await rescue on the hard shoulder.

There are two positions a light switch can be in. On or off.

This information tells me nothing about when to sack a football manager 

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

When Ipswich do not get promoted this season , then hello LJ 

Would be the swap then with Paul Cook??.....

Wouldn't surprise me.

[lenred]

42 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

At the same time, if we'd released Pearson after 6 months - as a number of fans were asking for - it would've been a big mistake. 

Generally I’d say these were extremely knee jerk posters who didn’t / wouldn’t understand the plight of the club despite it being spelled out to them. With LJ most people gave him a fair crack I’d say (of course there were always the ones who hated the appointment from the start given his perceived past in some quarters) but after a couple of seasons of the bluff and bluster and the tombola, and the throwing players under the bus and lack of personal responsibility,  people started to tire of him.  Then the further it went on the more toxic it became.  He should’ve gone well before he did and imho he was very lucky to get such a huge job as Sunderland, but he was never ever going to be afforded anywhere near the time he was here.  

Edited January 31, 2022 by lenred

[Tin Soldier]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He isn’t gonna take a low paid job like that, nor would he get day to day involvement.

Its a bonkers sacking don’t get me wrong, but I’m not sure where LJ goes from here.

He will be writing a book on “Man Management Skills”

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

comparing spending from different eras is entirely irrelevant, if you compare our net spending with that of our rivals, it was never more than mid-table.

If you look at our perceived “rivals”, or in fact smaller clubs, one or more of them finished above us each season.  We never won the mini-group.  Of the Teams who got promoted around the time we did, one of them always finished above us.

Johnson did ok, good stuff, bad stuff.

The sacking at Sunderland is crazy from the outside looking in.  But maybe it was “top two” or you’re gone, and with the two team above them creating a little gap and with games in hand, they knee-jerked.  League One is incredibly competitive this season, you just need a run of 4/5 wins in 6 and you can position yourselves nicely.

[Super]

What does Hampshire Red think of this?

[B1ackbird]

39 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It got us four consecutive seasons of Championship league position improvement, and even when that run ended we still finished a very respectable 12th. Three top-half finishes in a row. So he helped establish us a Championship club and gave us a firm base from which to kick on.

His time here was far from disastrous, we enjoyed some great moments during his tenure (cup run in particular), and his win percentage - without the benefit of any time in the easier League One - compares favourably with any manager in our living memory. And before anyone says "but look how much money he was given" - comparing spending from different eras is entirely irrelevant, if you compare our net spending with that of our rivals, it was never more than mid-table.

I think LJ left at the right time. But personally I think he is worthy of a little more respect than he often gets.

I'm not denying that, I sat there during all  those protracted losing runs in the vain hope that sooner or later, it'll be our turn to excell. Both Leeds and Sheffield United became the best sides in the championship without the Benefit of parachute payments, but hay what a crazy comparison, little old us expecting something more than being bang average..

[pillred]

5 hours ago, Robbored said:

And exactly the same when he left.

Sure Sunderland are third but LJ was sacked after his team got stuffed 6-0 - now that kind of result is relatively commonplace throughout the leagues and managers don’t usually get sacked on the back of it.  LJ getting relived of his duties suggests to me that there were other behind the scenes going’s on. Maybe the players weren’t on board the LJ train and possibly his man management skills were the same as his dads and that what’s really lies behind him getting the elbow…………

I have some sympathy for him tho - he’s still living in the shadow of his father and trying desperately to become a success on his own back and so far he’s failed miserably.

You have to ask the question where does he go from here? (no haircut 100 jokes please) as it's difficult to see that anyone would be beating down his door after this latest relative failure though their position in the league would at first glance make you think they were doing all right.

[Tin Soldier]

14 minutes ago, Super said:

What does Hampshire Red think of this?

He has been very quiet lately for some reason.

[Super]

1 minute ago, Tin Soldier said:

He has been very quiet lately for some reason.

I think he is no longer on here.

[BrizzleRed]

1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

Didn't we only have something like 19 players when he took over - we were a mess. And saying "Oh, he had the double winning squad" - that's the League 1 double, the gap between L1 and the Championship is huge.

The squad comment is right, tho', yes, we were a mess - but I already acknowledged that this time had come here. And I'm not sure that he was entirely to blame for the squad - he was a young manager, with no experience of managing at this level, and possibly influenced too much by others.

I'm not saying he was a rip-roaring success here, but saying he was useless from day one is just nonsense.

The gap between the League 1 and the Championship is certainly big, but we didn’t just stumble across the line when we were promoted, we absolutely walked it and with quality football too.  It’s not unusual for teams with that momentum to do well when they get up, as GJ proved and with arguably an inferior squad.

As for squad size, yes the numbers were on the low side, but the quality was certainly there and many from that squad are still playing at a higher level.

He had the core of a great squad there, but rather than building on it, it was completely torn apart for no apparent reason (unless SL just decided to cash in) and were mainly replaced with mediocrity.

I don’t think people are claiming he’s useless, but I honestly believe he has a far higher opinion of his own ability than his record would suggest and some fans continue to believe he has more about him than he actually produces

Take out several months when we were flying and playing great football in 2017, I look back at his time at City as some of the least exciting dross I’ve had to endure in well over 50 years of following City.

For me, his time here will live on in my memory as a time of stagnation and massive waste and best wiped out of the memory as soon as possible, with the exception of the cup run.

 

[Leveller]

7 minutes ago, pillred said:

You have to ask the question where does he go from here? (no haircut 100 jokes please) as it's difficult to see that anyone would be beating down his door after this latest relative failure though their position in the league would at first glance make you think they were doing all right.

Exactly. So it’s not a failure, just a blip. Harshly treated and will soon be hired again, I’d guess.

[Red-Robbo]

44 minutes ago, lenred said:

Generally I’d say these were extremely knee jerk posters who didn’t / wouldn’t understand the plight of the club despite it being spelled out to them. With LJ most people gave him a fair crack I’d say (of course there were always the ones who hated the appointment from the start given his perceived past in some quarters) but after a couple of seasons of the bluff and bluster and the tombola, and the throwing players under the bus and lack of personal responsibility,  people started to tire of him.  Then the further it went on the more toxic it became.  He should’ve gone well before he did and imho he was very lucky to get such a huge job as Sunderland, but he was never ever going to be afforded anywhere near the time he was here.  

 

Huge as in they have been big in the past and still have a decent fanbase - let's face it, what the **** else is there to do in Sunderland - but not huge in that they've not been successful for some time and if size of stadium determined your finish, we'd be above Fulham and Boro would win the Championship. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

To those still not getting why Sunderland acted as they did, let's put in terms you may understand.

There are two types in life: those who pay to take their perfectly performing cars in for service and those who think it wiser to save money and act only when the warning lights appear. They're easy to distinguish, the former putting miles very quickly between themselves and the latter who await rescue on the hard shoulder.

What about me - I don't drive?

[Red Exile]

18 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

As for squad size, yes the numbers were on the low side, but the quality was certainly there and many from that squad are still playing at a higher level.

It's what - 6 years since LJ joined? Of the squad he inherited you could make a case, 6 years later, for all of the following to start in a City side next week:

Ayling, Flint, Korey, Luke Freeman, Marlon, Bobby Reid, Joe Bryan

That's not a bad inheritance is it?! 

As supporters we have been far too tolerant of mediocrity. Cotts approach wasn't and it worked in League One. If he needed to be replaced - and perhaps he did - it needed to be by someone with experience and the same ruthless approach. Not a friend of the family learning on the job.

Interesting to read the Sunderland forums in the context of tolerance of mediocrity. Some might call their attitude 'entitlement' but I'd say that most of the more vitriolic posters are calling out the mediocre and expecting something better - because they know what that looks like. Would be better if there was more of that at Ashton Gate.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Red Exile

[Davefevs]

Freeman to Luton in the cards.

[BrizzleRed]

8 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

It's what - 6 years since LJ joined? Of the squad he inherited you could make a case, 6 years later, for all of the following to start in a City side next week:

Ayling, Flint, Korey, Luke Freeman, Marlon, Bobby Reid, Joe Bryan

That's not a bad inheritance is it?! 

Completely agree RE and even after 6 years they could certainly still do a job and have more than proven their ability.

Our problems certainly weren’t all down to LJ that’s for sure,  but I still can’t fathom how he’s still held in such high regard by some people, with how ordinary his managerial career has actually been.  

I can’t help thinking of the Emporer’s new clothes when I think of LJ!

[Guest]

"People harp on about beating Man United but we were fortunate to have some decent players at the time and it doesn’t take a lot for a team to get fired up to play Man United!"

 

**** me I've heard it all now

 

[BrizzleRed]

24 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

It's what - 6 years since LJ joined? Of the squad he inherited you could make a case, 6 years later, for all of the following to start in a City side next week:

Ayling, Flint, Korey, Luke Freeman, Marlon, Bobby Reid, Joe Bryan

That's not a bad inheritance is it?! 

As supporters we have been far too tolerant of mediocrity. Cotts approach wasn't and it worked in League One. If he needed to be replaced - and perhaps he did - it needed to be by someone with experience and the same ruthless approach. Not a friend of the family learning on the job.

Interesting to read the Sunderland forums in the context of tolerance of mediocrity. Some might call their attitude 'entitlement' but I'd say that most of the more vitriolic posters are calling out the mediocre and expecting something better - because they know what that looks like. Would be better if there was more of that at Ashton Gate.

….. oh and yes, I agree we are way too tolerent of mediocrity at the Gate, which is most likely why we settle for it far too easily and regularly

The mindset of being satisfied to finish ubove the Sags really isn’t going to see us kick on and definitely won’t encourage a genuine push for the Prem.  Hopefully under NP, we’ll be aiming higher

[maxjak]

2 hours ago, B1ackbird said:

People could argue we gave him more than enough time, and where did it get us???

I'm not interested in the "Lets all bad mouth LJ bandwagon"  it's so easy?   I thought he did an ok job, including a Cup semi final and some great games.........he also brought in some brilliant players in like Webster, Brownhill etc, and also established us as a Chanpionship side?    The financial mess was mostly Ashton IMHO.  PS.  And thanks LJ for having the foresight for recruiting one of the best young players in the Championship in HNM, before you left.....the massive fee we eventually get for him will be a great help?   .     

[REDOXO]

At least I don’t feel City are the biggest joke in The EFL anymore. 
 

Top six touching distance of top two. And he’s fired! Nuts!

Thats messed up my Saturday evening checking to see if Sunderland had lost.  I’ll just have to go back to not giving a toss about the third division rubbish!

[Bristol Oil Services]

He doesn't appear to be much of a "January, February, March" sort of manager. I can see him working next in the southern hemisphere, Boca Juniors perhaps. Or Santos. Mind, he still won't get them promoted. 

[Leveller]

48 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

At least I don’t feel City are the biggest joke in The EFL anymore. 
 

Top six touching distance of top two. And he’s fired! Nuts!

Thats messed up my Saturday evening checking to see if Sunderland had lost.  I’ll just have to go back to not giving a toss about the third division rubbish!

Yeah I was beginning to hope they’d go up. Be funny if they slid down the table now.

[Robbored]

4 hours ago, Selred said:

I thought actually that was one of Gary's strong points! Let's be honest we weren't tactically Brazil, we had a lot of grifters fighting for the shirt under GJ.

So that explains why GJ was sacked after senior players went to SL refusing to play for him any longer after the shocking brawl at Argyle?

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

So that explains why GJ was sacked after senior players went to SL refusing to play for him any longer after the shocking brawl at Argyle?

Did you read that on the official site?

Couldn't miss an open goal like that!!!

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

Couldn't miss an open goal like that!!!

[Portland Bill]

15 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

If cotts is going to be lauded as a ‘double winner’, then Johnson deserves credit for an EFL trophy. 

Some of the replies on this thread are oddly personal. The Lee Johnson years didn’t come close to other, genuine horrors of the past. Yes, he was given time and money, and at our worst we were drab, but at our best we could be scintillating. 

His era had excitement and some of the loftiest heights we experienced in the previous decade. Compare this to other managers of the last 10-20 years who barely even left with a memorable win on their city CV. 
 

The truth is, there is, was, and always will be, some kind of strange personal vendetta against Lee Johnson from sections of our fan base. I don’t understand it, you don’t know the man. He was the manager of your football team, but some of you have such deeply personal character assessments that you can’t possibly be basing solely on that? 
 

It became personal to me when he destroyed my love of watching us play, when he claimed his love for my club, after saying the same about Oldham and Barnsley, when he thought he was the high and mighty, and none of us watching were worthy of understanding the game.

The strange thing is that I quite liked him as a player, always playing it simple, keeping the ball, giving it to players who were far more talented than him. 

But as a coach/manager he thinks he is some kind of inimitable expert, that must be looked up too. His after match interviews are farcical and pathetic, talking down to people who just watched 90 minutes of sheer shite, by trying to tell them they didn’t understand what they were watching.

No other Championship club would have gone anywhere near him ( someone give me one reason why they would of? ) when SL hired him. He had done nothing to warrant coming here, except being a mate of the owners son.

Yes, it’s personal, i and many others have been involved with football for 50 years plus, one thing I don’t need is someone who isn’t very good at his job, trying to tell me what I’m watching. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

7 hours ago, maxjak said:

Their Chairman is an entitled impulsive 24 year old........probably threw a hissy fit, after his dad told him off?

He may well be entitled and impulsive, but his father, the late Robert Louis-Dreyfus, died in 2009.