Penalties- Guess how many we average per season in the League from 2018/19 to now?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Despite the win. I know today was a bit soft and a bit self-inflicted. Bit of both at the same time basically.

However we don't get many. Attacking more is one part of it, from early 2019/20 to Barnsley at home it's been quite low taken as a whole.

If anyone can get it without looking it up, I'll be quite impressed. M

[LondonBristolian]

I certainly cannot think of many at all.

Could it be as low as two a season?

[Sleepy1968]

5?

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I certainly cannot think of many at all.

Could it be as low as two a season?

That's what my gut feeling was. Fam scored one at QPR a couple of years ago, Wells has scored one and blazed one over this term. I don't think it's many.

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I certainly cannot think of many at all.

Could it be as low as two a season?

Yep- 2019/20 3 and this season to date it's 2.

I think it might have been 4 in 2018/19 but then we attacked more- but some sides do seem to get quite a lot relative to the fairly attacking output but we are not one!

Leeds attacked loads over the last two seasons under Bielsa yet didn't get awarded that many all told. Thought the Palmer one today against us was soft. 

Indeed just checked Transfermarkt and it said we only got 2 in 2018/19- yet our attacking numbers were clearly better than this and last season overall!

It's 7 in 2 seasons and 33 games in the League.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Chivs]

I think after referees saw Tomlin's effort they decided there wasn't much point awarding them to us. 

[ExiledAjax]

23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yep- 2019/20 3 and this season to date it's 2.

I think it might have been 4 in 2018/19 but then we attacked more- but some sides do seem to get quite a lot relative to the fairly attacking output but we are not one!

Leeds attacked loads over the last two seasons under Bielsa yet didn't get awarded that many all told. Thought the Palmer one today against us was soft. 

Indeed just checked Transfermarkt and it said we only got 2 in 2018/19- yet our attacking numbers were clearly better than this and last season overall!

It's 7 in 2 seasons and 33 games in the League.

Fam missed one away to PNE last season didn't he?

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Fam missed one away to PNE last season didn't he?

Was at Swansea I think.

I've checked a report from the game though, Weimann disallowed for offside, Diedhiou disallowed for a foul in build-up and they (Preston) got two penalties! One of which was a terrible decision.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Reigate Red]

25 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think it might have been 4 in 2018/19 but then we attacked more- but some sides do seem to get quite a lot relative to the fairly attacking output but we are not one!

 

Yes - for example the Gas who no matter what the relative merits of their attacking strike force maybe they consistently get awarded them season after season. Would be interesting to see comparison stats (and yes I am too lazy to do the research).

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Reigate Red said:

Yes - for example the Gas who no matter what the relative merits of their attacking strike force maybe they consistently get awarded them season after season. Would be interesting to see comparison stats (and yes I am too lazy to do the research).

Actually checked it was 2 even in 2018/19- when we had better attacking output, numbers. 3 last year, 2 so far this- so tracking for 2-3 a season on average.

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Was at Swansea I think.

I've checked a report from the game though, Weimann disallowed for offside, Diedhiou disallowed for a foul in build-up and they (Preston) got two penalties! One of which was a terrible decision.

That was it, they got two. Fam missed a goal from about the penalty spot, but it wasn't a pen.

Anyway, it's not many is it. But then we have been actively avoiding the opposition box for about two years.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

That was it, they got two. Fam missed a goal from about the penalty spot, but it wasn't a pen.

Anyway, it's not many is it. But then we have been actively avoiding the opposition box for about two years.

Yes attacking output down but if you look at some of the charts relative to creativity there are some interesting results over the last few years.

[Slacker]

Ref's got fed up waiting for JET to finish his run up.

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yep- 2019/20 3 and this season to date it's 2.

I think it might have been 4 in 2018/19 but then we attacked more- but some sides do seem to get quite a lot relative to the fairly attacking output but we are not one!

Leeds attacked loads over the last two seasons under Bielsa yet didn't get awarded that many all told. Thought the Palmer one today against us was soft. 

Indeed just checked Transfermarkt and it said we only got 2 in 2018/19- yet our attacking numbers were clearly better than this and last season overall!

It's 7 in 2 seasons and 33 games in the League.

Haven’t we had 3 pens so far this season? 1 might have been in the FA cup though?

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Haven’t we had 3 pens so far this season? 1 might have been in the FA cup though?

In the FA Cup at Millwall yep, Diedhiou scored it.

In the League though, we don't get many but then the amount we create doesn't help. With respect to this and last season.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

2 would have been my guess but whatever it was I imagine it was at least a quarter or a fifth that Preston average. 

[The Gasbuster]

Less than Rovers.

[WarksRobin]

8 hours ago, The Gasbuster said:

Less than Rovers.

*Fewer* than Rovers

[Hellfire Corner]

2 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

*Fewer* than Rovers

Fewer than Rovers*.*

[Lanterne Rouge]

12 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

*Fewer* than Rovers

 

9 minutes ago, Hellfire Corner said:

Fewer than Rovers*.*

Very appropriate corrections there.

[Galway Red]

8 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

2 would have been my guess but whatever it was I imagine it was at least a quarter or a fifth that Preston average. 

Rovers and PNE are awarded a minimum of 12 penalties per season. It is wrirren into EFL rules, didn't Man Utd get a crazy amount of penalties last season, something like one every 2.5 games? 

[Ian M]

15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's 7 in 2 seasons and 33 games in the League.

And how many have we conceded in that time?

[GrahamC]

Part of this is either naivety or honesty on our part, depending on your point of view.

Preston blatantly go looking for penalties as part of their game plan, of the 3 they have had awarded against us up there in the last 2 seasons both Sinclair & Johnson dived without contact to win them, we just don’t do that.

We also don’t harangue referees the way say, Ayew does..

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

We need to get more players in the box more regularly to earn penalties but we certainly have a history of not being nasty enough and gamesmanship is not part of our general make-up. Most seasons will see us close to the top of any fair play league. 

[Midred]

Poor old OGS moaning this morning that Man Utd wern't given a penalty yesterday because of what people are saying about the club's ability to "win" penalties! I'd feel more sorry for him if he questioned the correctness of some of the penalties that they've been awarded!

[Red white and red]

Considering we have spent about 3 minutes in the opposition half, over the past 30+ games... not many! 

[italian dave]

League: This season 2. Last season 3. Season before 2.  (Rovers in that time 5,7 and 7 respectively).

Average number of pens per game is between 0.2 and 0.25. My maths aren't great, but I reckon that means that on average a team could expect 4-5 each season - so we're well below average.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Not so much looking on the history but this season in isolation.

Rolling count in the League now 2 penalties to us this season, 5 against.

As I've said before and elsewhere, we don't create much but it feels a bit on the low side still? Surely if Coventry's vs us was one, then one (Semenyo?) turned down v Nottingham Forest also was. Or neither were but it's 2-5.

[handsofclay]

I also think it is unfair that the penalty kick was first introduced in 1891. Our club was formed in 1894 so there are quite a few clubs out there who have had three years extra practice.

[GrahamC]

18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not so much looking on the history but this season in isolation.

Rolling count in the League now 2 penalties to us this season, 5 against.

As I've said before and elsewhere, we don't create much but it feels a bit on the low side still? Surely if Coventry's vs us was one, then one (Semenyo?) turned down v Nottingham Forest also was. Or neither were but it's 2-5.

Amazingly if you look on Twitter there are still Swansea fans moaning about the one we got against them at home in October when Conor Roberts lost his footing & tripped Semenyo.

This coming from a side with a diver like Andre Ayew up front..

[Mr Popodopolous]

44 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Amazingly if you look on Twitter there are still Swansea fans moaning about the one we got against them at home in October when Conor Roberts lost his footing & tripped Semenyo.

This coming from a side with a diver like Andre Ayew up front..

A match report in the Sunday Times IIRC did suggest it was a soft penalty last October.

However yeah it's incredibly rich of them. 4-5 penalties since sometime in February I believe!

Wycombe should perhaps have had one v them yesterday, Luton too in March so they're in no real position...

[Mr Popodopolous]

As I thought @GrahamC found it- make of it what you will?

Quote

But in the 83rd minute Connor Roberts tangled with Bristol City’s Antoine Semenyo and Oliver Langford, the referee, awarded the softest of penalties that enabled Nahki Wells to salvage a point.

And

Quote

With time petering out, a long ball pumped diagonally across Swansea’s penalty area seemed to pose little danger, but Roberts’s slip was penalised as Semenyo also tumbled to the ground.

Not that I necessarily agree with their verdict- but the Reporter certainly thought so...thought it was perhaps a bit soft having watched it back.

Still, they get a lot- refs however don't give us much so **** it- we'll take it!

Edited April 19, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[GrahamC]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

As I thought @GrahamC found it- make of it what you will?

And

Not that I necessarily agree with their verdict- but the Reporter certainly thought so...thought it was perhaps a bit soft having watched it back.

Still, they get a lot- refs however don't give us much so **** it- we'll take it!

My view (trying not to be biased) was it was pretty much identical in intent to the one that Kalas gave away at Coventry.

TK didn’t mean to, but he tripped the guy, Conor Roberts lost his footing & inadvertently pulled Semenyo to the ground, there is nowhere in the rules that says it has to be the intention, but he did so.

it was a penalty.

For me one of the clearest penalties we should have had was at Hull when Afobe played for us, the defender stumbled in pursuit & basically accidentally rugby tackled him to the floor, interestingly not long afterwards the ref awarded one for a trip on Rowe that was also a foul but more marginal.

 

 

[cityloyal473]

You've got to be in the oppositions box to get a penalty. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, cityloyal473 said:

You've got to be in the oppositions box to get a penalty. 

....with the ball, ideally

[cityloyal473]

53 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

....with the ball, ideally

Ah. I see where we’ve been going wrong now. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

We still don't get many.

Thought I'd update this, as we had 3 awarded against us in the last 3 League games.

Quick search says we got 2 for and 4 against in the season we almost made the playoffs in 2018/19- LJ's last full season. We had slightly more shots than we conceded.

Last 2 seasons we have had notable issues with creativity vs concession of chances.

Think it was 3 for and 4 against in 2019/20. That season saw 2 awarded against us in one game alone, Preston- amazingly the same ref we had v QPR, Andy Davies was it!

Last season, believe it was 2 for and 6 against.

I make it 1 for and 6 against this season, talking solely in the League- the one vs QPR was pretty clear yet not awarded and we probably should have had one vs Nottingham Forest and another at Coventry away when O'Dowda taken down?

What are we doing wrong I wonder. Are we naive in the box for one thing? I know we had creativity issues- yet we were still turned down a good shout v QPR!

8 for and 20 against in the last 3.5 seasons or so. They are quite important, they often get scored!

Edited January 9, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[bcfc01]

I see PNE have scored a penalty against Cardiff today..

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I see PNE have scored a penalty against Cardiff today..

Decided to look into Preston, using the same period ie 2018/19 to the present in the League. Thought it might be an interesting comparison as we often are not that differently placed to them in the League.

25 for and 17 against.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We still don't get many.

Thought I'd update this, as we had 3 awarded against us in the last 3 League games.

Quick search says we got 2 for and 4 against in the season we almost made the playoffs in 2018/19- LJ's last full season. We had slightly more shots than we conceded.

Last 2 seasons we have had notable issues with creativity vs concession of chances.

Think it was 3 for and 4 against in 2019/20. That season saw 2 awarded against us in one game alone, Preston- amazingly the same ref we had v QPR, Andy Davies was it!

Last season, believe it was 2 for and 6 against.

I make it 1 for and 6 against this season, talking solely in the League- the one vs QPR was pretty clear yet not awarded and we probably should have had one vs Nottingham Forest and another at Coventry away when O'Dowda taken down?

What are we doing wrong I wonder. Are we naive in the box for one thing? I know we had creativity issues- yet we were still turned down a good shout v QPR!

8 for and 20 against in the last 3.5 seasons or so. They are quite important, they often get scored!

 

I guess last season and for some of this one, our default last 20 minutes of every game has been to sit deep and pray to high heaven that we don't concede. When you invite pressure, you invite (ahem) more box entries and are always prone to give away a penalty.

That said, I think we have the right to feel aggrieved by the last two league ones, given the context of what went on in the rest of the game. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I guess last season and for some of this one, our default last 20 minutes of every game has been to sit deep and pray to high heaven that we don't concede. When you invite pressure, you invite (ahem) more box entries and are always prone to give away a penalty.

That said, I think we have the right to feel aggrieved by the last two league ones, given the context of what went on in the rest of the game. 

Agreed- as I say last season, and for good chunks of the season before, we had serious issues with creativity and were more reactive than proactive. For bits of this season too- the discrepancy vs say Preston is quite something though.

Last 2 and maybe 3...QPR home, Coventry away and maybe Nottingham Forest home.

[22A]

Nothing new then.

I remember about 50 (yes, early 1970's) years ago the EP reported "City were only awarded two penalties last season". When questioned about this Geoff Merrick replied "It's probably because we don't attack enough, especially away from home".