Semenyo

[Sturny]

I think if he moves on we'll all be cursing at what a great player we'll see him turn into in the next few years, but what we need to realise is he probably couldn't of reached that potential here. He needs to move, be around better players and coaches. Similar to YB and Ayling when they moved. 

5m is a great deal for them still, I think he'll turn out to be fantastic player, we can all see that potential.

Saying that, I do still feel slightly bitter. It feels like we're really scrapping the barrell of our team and selling whatever small sparks we have left! Anyone who shows any flair and they're gone  

Edited May 11, 2021 by Sturny

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A risk for sure, but Semenyo in the hands of Nigel Pearson, versus Bolasie in the hands of Derek McInnes are very different propositions. 

I don't see it like that at all mate. 

Both of those players are beasts, with unorthodox talent.

Regardless of ' manager' it could go either way imo.

Outside of a covid year I reckon a Prem club would risk £10 m on him.

Right now, it's an unknown quantity value wise. A true gamble.

I'd edge on the side of keep him as I see potential, but if £10 m I'd sell.

3 minutes ago, Taz said:

 

He's a difficult player to judge. On one hand, he frustrates so much because he doesn't score enough (or at times look likely to), and that money could get a decent replacement, or cover the wages of a few free's. Palace aren't stupid, they know this, along with the fact that we need to rebuild and let's be fair, cash in the hand would be beneficial.

On the other hand, he is probably one of the players that is likely to go on and prove a lot of people wrong - Bobby Reid style.

We haven't looked like scoring much this season, so to knock him for not scoring enough, could be a bit unfair. Maybe with a decent pre season, and decent coaching from the right type of coach (e.g. one that is/was able to find the net regularly), he could improve ten fold.

Was there not a club supposedly interested in him recently? If there is anything substantial in both "rumours" then let the bids come in, and see where they go.

The thing with these Prem clubs, is that while people are saying "he won't get game time for ages/if at all", at that price they can afford to take the gamble. For them, it's the equivalent of us taking a "punt" on Engval. Won't miss it at all.

I'm in the undecided camp with him. Frustrates but has potential.

Agree with the Posh comments - put a high price on him and see who takes the bait. Start playing proper hardball.

I think post covid we have to play hardball as you say.

[exAtyeoMax]

24 minutes ago, spudski said:

How odd...it literally crossed my mind the other day as to who would come calling for Semenyo. 

Palace screamed at me...he is totally a Palace type player.

Semenyo literally is the biggest dilemma I've ever seen as a player for us.

He's so unatural it's confusing. 

He's big, strong, direct for his age, but has the composure of a 17 year old in front of Kylie when in front of goal. Literally watch every pass, shot or control ..tell me it isn't crisp, controlled or composed.....so, so frustrating.

Like Harry...I'd be pushing for more.

I think it was mentioned a couple of weeks ago that Palace was interested. Can’t remember where or who

[Street red]

34 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Just ask Mark Ashton

Who

[Kid in the Riot]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

I don't see it like that at all mate. 

Both of those players are beasts, with unorthodox talent.

Regardless of ' manager' it could go either way imo.

Outside of a covid year I reckon a Prem club would risk £10 m on him.

Right now, it's an unknown quantity value wise. A true gamble.

I'd edge on the side of keep him as I see potential, but if £10 m I'd sell.

Fair, your view. But I think Pearson's track record of bringing on players like this, at this level, versus McInnes' non-existent record of doing so, counts for a lot. 

One season with Nige and let's day he has 10 goals and 10 assists, then he is likely a £10m player who has made a huge contribution to Bristol City.

Look, I agree it's one of those that's in the balance - let's hope we make the right call. I'm certainly leaning towards wanting to see the kid for at least one more season in  a City shirt unless the offer is big. 

[Gazred]

Interesting one.

He's certainly got all the physical attributes for the Prem right now. 

Still a work in progress though. Would be a shame to see him improve elsewhere and not here but the amount and timing is tempting.

London lad originally as well isn't he?

[RedEd73]

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Yeah, for 12 or 15 mil if he does the business whilst on 'loan' from his new club.

We would effectively sell him for peanuts, develop him further and see none of the financial benefits.

Or, he could produce more of the same, with no enhanced value and with less time on his contact. 

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Fair, your view. But I think Pearson's track record of bringing on players like this, at this level, versus McInnes' non-existent record of doing so, counts for a lot. 

One season with Nige and let's day he has 10 goals and 10 assists, then he is likely a £10m player who has made a huge contribution to Bristol City.

Look, I agree it's one of those that's in the balance - let's hope we make the right call. I'm certainly leaning towards wanting to see the kid for at least one more season in  a City shirt unless the offer is big. 

Your last sentence sums up my gut instinct too...hard one to call.

[Red Skin]

I do see the needs to build, but surprised how many are so ready to see him leave.  How many threads on here lately bemoaning selling our best players?

Sure he lacks composure when in on goal, but he's quick, strong, makes good runs, has good awareness of players around him, can play off both feet.   I'd keep him.  

Personally, I think he lacks a bit of confidence.  If he had a bit more arrogance about him he'd soon start smashing them in.  

Edited May 11, 2021 by Red Skin

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

Can’t say I’d lose any sleep. Yeh, he was YPOTS,  but he didn’t exactly have any competition did he?

Lets be realistic, would he have played anywhere near as many games if we’d had a fully fit squad? Not a chance. 

Cash in. Add the mandatory sell on clause and job done. 

If we could only keep one, I’d much rather keep Liam Walsh*
 

*although I appreciate this isn’t a real scenario. 

Massengo was robbed!

[t_b]

Well in January 2019 I was told he was heading off to Chelsea (& The Sun said £1m). 
 

So has his value gone from £1m largely unproved and turned down in Jan2019 to £3m with more 2nd tier experience now?

Don’t seem the right numbers to me

[Harry]

On the flip side to my earlier post of ‘hold out for £10m’, if we did sell for, let’s say £4m, we could rebuild the side in the following manner :

Scott Twine - compensation fee from Swindon. 
Matt Jay - circa £750k from Exeter. 
Stephen Humphrys - circa £600k-£1m from Rochdale. 
 

You’ve then rebuilt your whole front line with 3 players for the price of 1 and still £2m left to plough into the defence or midfield. 

[italian dave]

21 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Fair, your view. But I think Pearson's track record of bringing on players like this, at this level, versus McInnes' non-existent record of doing so, counts for a lot. 

One season with Nige and let's day he has 10 goals and 10 assists, then he is likely a £10m player who has made a huge contribution to Bristol City.

Look, I agree it's one of those that's in the balance - let's hope we make the right call. I'm certainly leaning towards wanting to see the kid for at least one more season in  a City shirt unless the offer is big. 

I'm not going to argue that McInnes' track record was good, but in fairness he did have the dilemma of accommodating a fairly young Albert and a very young Bolassie into the same side. 

[2015]

I'd accept 4 million with sell on clause. 

I think good arguments for and against this. I think there is coaching to be had with Semenyo about when to dribble and when to shoot. 

On the other hand, he hasn't been of the required standard on the whole all season to suggest he will improve us. 

[Bristolboy_06]

If we can get £17M for Lloyd Kelly at a similar age, we can get at least £10M for Semenyo. 

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

I think you've hit the nail on the head re Semenyo...unless something drastically changed.

He's not a natural goal scorer, he's not a ' number 10'...is he an attacking me? Who knows...my guess is he'll have a career, but unfulfilled, because no one will work out his best position or how to play him.

He's an athlete who can play football. But he is not a footballer. His timing and ball control is haphazard and his "reading" of the game is almost non existent.

Sell while a Premier League club is daft enough to pay £5 million.

And watch natural goal scorers like Sam Bell, Conway and Britton improving with match experience.

Edited May 11, 2021 by cidered abroad

[Davefevs]

41 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

If we can get £4m I would sell, providing a large sell on % is included. 

Malik Wilks (Hull) is a player we should target with some of the money. 22 years old (1 year older than Semenyo), has scored 39 goals since 2018 (for Doncaster, Barnsley and Hull). He would likely cost up to £2m, which leaves plenty in the kitty for additional incomings. 

Semenyo certainly could become a very good player, and I fully believe he would develop at a faster rate under Pearson. However, there are players out there who could have a bigger impact right away. 

 

If we play 4231, Wilks is a player who’d fit really well.  In my League One “Forwards” list on the transfer sub-forum.

1 minute ago, Bristolboy_06 said:

If we can get £17M for Lloyd Kelly at a similar age, we can get at least £10M for Semenyo. 

Different market these days.  Kelly an u21 international too.

[JoeAman08]

I’d rather keep him and risk he doesn’t develop rather than sell him for 3m. 5m maybe but probably lowest I’d go. I’d be looking for 7.5m guaranteed. 
 

Pretty sure he has multiple years left on his deal. Risk it and if he scores 10-15 he is worth more than 3-5m even with a year left. He isn’t a great finisher at the minute and may never be. That said, he gets into good positions often and a bit more composure his goal return could easily go up. We have finally developed him into a championship player, so why sell him? We sell too early too often. Let’s build around some of these players for once. 

[Johnny Musicworks]

Let’s face it that for £3m we wouldn’t be able to get Szmodics from Peterborough. In fact they probably wouldn’t sell a striker for less than £5m now even to a Championship club so it’s a no from me.
 

Unfortunately his performances and appearances seemed to drop off at the end of the season and I wondered if we had moved to a head-turned scenario with Antoine. It will all come down to how much we need to fund incomings and whether other than Kalas, Bents and Han there are any other marketable players. It also depends on Nigels view of him and his value going forward but as NP has already made clear players have to decide if they want to come on the journey or not and maybe Antoine doesn’t either have or want  a place on our bus.

[IAmNick]

I'd take the money and reinvest in a targeted way personally.

I'd prefer a smaller, more elite squad with clearly defined/understood roles and after a year of watching him I'm not entirely sure where he fits in for us. Is he going to play regularly? If not, how are we going to play or develop him?

A decent player with potential to perhaps be very good, but I don't want us to hang on to a load of players like that around the squad on that chance personally.

For every "but look at Bolaise" there are ten more people said until they were blue in the face on here they were the next big thing we should be playing every week who disappeared completely.

Taking risks on youngsters goes both ways - letting them go as well as playing them. I hope we keep him and he does it for us but that's what I'd do if I were making the decisions!

[ProfitInMyPocket]

Only player we have that can shift the ball and run past players and has shown his eye for setting up teammates. Goals will come with more game time.

How much does £3-5m get you nowadays in terms of getting creative players? unless its a shot at a fairly unknown foreign player, not a lot.

English premium will prop him up value wise if he improves in the next season which I'm sure he will under NP if he buys in to what he wants.

Pearson has already said don't get ahead of ourselves in terms of an instant rebuild and in these financial circumstances I would keep and wait and see how this young man improves in our side.

This boy has big potential. 

[BCFC Rich]

1 hour ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

Only player we have that can shift the ball and run past players and has shown his eye for setting up teammates. Goals will come with more game time.

How much does £3-5m get you nowadays in terms of getting creative players? unless its a shot at a fairly unknown foreign player, not a lot.

English premium will prop him up value wise if he improves in the next season which I'm sure he will under NP if he buys in to what he wants.

Pearson has already said don't get ahead of ourselves in terms of an instant rebuild and in these financial circumstances I would keep and wait and see how this young man improves in our side.

This boy has big potential. 

I'm also inclined to say keep him. However It's going to be an unusual market this summer - there are a lot of out of contract players and I guess you could argue £3m + freeing up a squad space allows you to put that money towards the wages of an out of contract player we might not be able to afford otherwise. I guess it all depends on who NP wants this summer. But just to emphasise again I'd rather we kept him I think he could really develop the difference between last season and this is already huge. 

[havanatopia]

It's not enough, nowhere near enough. We know it and Hodgson knows it. He's a crafty beggar, although I like him.

7 hours ago, downendcity said:

Doris the tea lady?

She is already in Suffolk house hunting.

[Bris Red]

I’d be inclined to keep him to be honest. Granted the jury is most certainly out on his goalscoring ability at this level however we did see glimpses last season of his potential, if NP can get him to add some more composure in front of goal your looking at £15 million plus for him and in the meantime we have a good striker to call on. 
 

[pongo88]

The main factor in deciding whether to keep or sell should be does NP think he will ever deliver an end product on a regular basis. For all his undoubted talent, at present he doesn’t. Getting him to change won’t be easy as, at present, when in a shooting or crossing position he tends to panic and just blasts the ball as hard as he can. 

[cidercity1987]

£3m gets them Wells, £10m might start a conversation on Semenyo, Corona or not.

Why would we sell a young homegrown talent with so much potential for so little? The simple fact a Prem team wants him tells me his value is well in excess of £3m.

[M.D]

Its a buyers market at the moment, would like to see him stay but I dont think we will say no to £4-5 million plus add ons..

[SecretSam]

Shame if they decide to sell, but if that's what the lad wants, and we get add ons...or they loan him back for a season...

[Selred]

I'd be looking at £6 mil personally. 

My issue with Semenyo is where does he fit into our team. He's not an out and out striker, and we know Nigel wants to play wingers which he isn't one either. 

I'd rather move Semenyo on for a decent wedge and look to get players in for a style of football we want. Always seems forced with Antoine. 

[Dolman_Stand]

Whether it's 4 or 5m this would only presumably be the initial transfer fee, the bigger thing for me would be what future add ons are included in the deal I.e. International caps, sell-on clauses etc if these are higher than the normal then 4 to 4.5 would probably be a decent enough deal.

 

[42nite]

10 hours ago, Lew-T said:

Ah, Semenyo...

He’s one of those players and at his age, it’s difficult to weigh up because he could be so so good. I wouldn’t like to be in the board room for this one...

 

 

Nah, nor me. 

I'm gonna phone in sick!

 

[Rob k]

11 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Palace interested apparently. Want him for £3m.

We want £5m.

Don't shoot the messenger

And, in anticipation of the "hahaha bite their hands off for £3m" posts, I don't necessarily disagree. However, word of caution: we all said the same regarding one Yannick Bolasie.

I’d not sell him for either of those figures, if he can be coached to finish better then he will be worth a hell of a lot more than that 

[The Bard]

9 hours ago, RedEd73 said:

Or, he could produce more of the same, with no enhanced value and with less time on his contact. 

This.  He is by no means guaranteed to continue improving with us or Palace for that matter.

[GrahamC]

9 hours ago, ncnsbcfc said:

Strange one isn't he?

That goal against Millwall in the cup, i thought "wow he has the ability to do that". Plus the 5/6 assists that he got in the first half of the season.

I didn't rate him at all, based on the evidence of the 19/20 season. But i thought i would have to reevaluate my thinking around him.

However, second half of the season (like everyone else), his overall performances were not of the same standard.

His two league goals consist of 2 x chasing down the keeper, and the ball coming off his ass. He's not a natural goalscorer, in the way that Conway and Britton have demonstrated for the under 23s, and first team.

In that case, what sort of player is he?

In the current climate £4-5m affords us the capability to get 3/4 other players in to help with the rebuild.

I have no problem with him going for that figure. But a lot will depend on how we replace him.

That will be the indication of whether we've learned from our previous mistakes; and that the new processes/talent id process is working in the way we hope it will.

Good post.

Maybe I am getting more generous in my old age but I would see his form in the second half of the season in this light;

Prior to the season just ended he had started 4 games at this level with a few sub appearances too.

We both were pretty underwhelmed by what we had seen then & so his transformation in the first half of the season was impressive.

However at 21, in a side that consistently failed to score or even create opportunities being expected to form most of our pitiful attacking “threat” was a hell of a burden for him to shoulder.

Our 2 main strikers by this time consisted of a guy who started phoning it in because he was off & one who is far happier to point out to Antoine that his pass was poor than to encourage him.

He is, to use one of Nige’s favourite phrases, robust, and had been involved in every single game bar one (which he missed due to a bereavement, not an injury) up until the very last game.

I think it is fair to consider him physically & mentally knackered by the end of the season, therefore.

You are right, the replacement bit is key here, all bar the relegated clubs will have no money to spend & if we can get the right appointment in to improve this area, as I said before £4m would get you a lot this summer, when you factor in the expected huge reduction in the wage bill by releasing 9 or 10.

[RedorDead BCFC]

Personally I would take the chance on him for at least the first part of the season. Palace are not buying him to go straight into their team so they won’t be n a rush. 
if he clicks and does start scoring goals his value will rocket up. 
Plus I’m looking forward to seeing him play in person. It’s been fun watching him scare defenders when he charges at them like a raging bull on TV. 
His form dipped towards the latter part of the season but so did everyone’s also was he not playing with knocks as well? 
Hopefully Nige sees potential and wants to work with him. 

[firstdivision]

I’m inclined to agree with those who say he’ll be worth a lot more in a year. He’s one of the few players I actually look forward to watching. He’s developed a lot this season. Good youngsters can make leaps forward.

Also, if we’re just going to use the money to bring in players like Angela or Danny Simpson, then definitely keep him.

There needs to be a clear plan of bringing in strong, athletic, fit players around the age of 23-26. The transfer money would have to be used judiciously.
 

[Oh Louie louie]

No brainer for me.

No sale.

Certainly not at 3 million.

 

[Oh Louie louie]

Chelsea, offered a few million for him years ago.

If he has a good season, he will rise in value again.

I

[Merrick's Marvels]

9 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Pretty sure he has multiple years left on his deal. Risk it and if he scores 10-15 he is worth more than 3-5m even with a year left. He isn’t a great finisher at the minute and may never be. That said, he gets into good positions often and a bit more composure his goal return could easily go up. We have finally developed him into a championship player, so why sell him? We sell too early too often. Let’s build around some of these players for once. 

We sell because we can get a better replacement, in the current market. Maybe more than one. Players who aren't learning on the job and who can fill a specific role immediately - what is Semenyo? A winger, a wide forward, a centre forward? Right here, right now we don't have the time to wait and found out, given the mess we're in.

In a way, he would be a victim of our circumstances if we decided to sell him, although moving to the Premier League would hardly be a hardship.

Personally, I'd sell because I find the idea of Semenyo ever scoring 10-15 goals fanciful in the extreme. 

[Dolman_Stand]

Lets just remember that Conway and Brittain have scored as many league goals in their combined minutes (200?) as Semenyo has in two years and were keeping him out of the side at the end of the season, appreciate there is more to his game than that but if the £5m can be used to sort out other area's of the team then I would be happy enough to see the likes of Brittain, Conway and Bell be blooded next season in a more settled team.

[HappyClapper]

We have to consider the player in this. He’s from London and was only brought into our set up relatively recently. He’s got the opportunity for a bump in salary and to move back “home”. A chance to train and play in the premier league.(Granted he doesn’t look ready yet). It feels difficult/ wrong to stand in his way. Only issue is negotiating a fee that is acceptable to all sides. £5M + add ons + sell on clause doesn’t seem far off the mark. 

 

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, billywedlock said:

I would like to see AS play in a side that is a lot better than the one we saw this season. He looks like he could become a very special player, and 3/4 M is not selling a player Brentford style is it. We need to get him to the £10m plus. Players like AS should be forming a good core of a team that gets to the Prem. 

If we continue selling any talent we have, keep signing journeymen, we will end up... well where we are. A total pile of crap. 

Anyway, who is negotiating for City and worse still, who is out there finding replacements ? If it is anyone from the Aston recruitment team (or was it just him alone) then we are in a big mess. Nige without a recruitment team is going to fail, and badly. Selling one of the few talents we have, will make his job almost impossible. 

Final paragraph is the worry. Although my feeling on it is slightly more nuanced. If Ashton is still involved then you’d worry about the recruitment. On the other hand, his track record of extracting maximum value when we sell is pretty good. I realise it’s sinful on here to suggest that he’s anything other than a complete idiot, but I wouldn’t mind if he was still involved in negotiating any sale. Just not to Ipswich! 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

15 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

We sell because we can get a better replacement, in the current market. Maybe more than one. Players who aren't learning on the job and who can fill a specific role immediately - what is Semenyo? A winger, a wide forward, a centre forward? Right here, right now we don't have the time to wait and found out, given the mess we're in.

In a way, he would be a victim of our circumstances if we decided to sell him, although moving to the Premier League would hardly be a hardship.

Personally, I'd sell because I find the idea of Semenyo ever scoring 10-15 goals fanciful in the extreme. 

What’s happening to Semenyo happens to lots of young players.  Take Ivan Toney, huge promise but for his first six seasons he scored about 35 goals in total.  In the last three seasons he’s scored over seventy, playing in sides that understand him and with the benefit of growing experience.  Put Semenyo in the right set up and I think he’s quite capable of scoring 20 goals next season.  I wouldn’t consider selling him for a moment, but if he did go I would be very disappointed if he went for anything less than £10m.  But what I’d really like to see is us build a team around him, because I believe he’s going to surprise a lot of you.

[lenred]

26 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Chelsea, offered a few million for him years ago.

If he has a good season, he will rise in value again.

I

I think this is it. If he doesn’t show improvement then we don’t lose too much value, however the upside of keeping him and him progressing next season could be huge and vastly outweigh any downside.  All a punt of course and lots of factors to consider not least as to what he wants himself and how he would react to any move being turned down, but that’s why we’ve appointed a serious manager - to make these decisions and hopefully have trust in the ones he makes.  

[Robbored]

I reckon Semenyo will flourish under Nige. He’s pacy and if he can utilise that ability to its full benefit he’ll become quite an asset.

He’s been learning from the likes of Wells and Martin on when to make runs and find space and work on his finishing.

Next campaign could be his breakthrough season.

[Dolman_Stand]

14 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Final paragraph is the worry. Although my feeling on it is slightly more nuanced. If Ashton is still involved then you’d worry about the recruitment. On the other hand, his track record of extracting maximum value when we sell is pretty good. I realise it’s sinful on here to suggest that he’s anything other than a complete idiot, but I wouldn’t mind if he was still involved in negotiating any sale. Just not to Ipswich! 

Done deal, sold to Ipswich for £1 who will then sell him to Palace for £15m

[Bodiesaffer]

Keep him for one more year.  

[Merrick's Marvels]

16 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Put Semenyo in the right set up and I think he’s quite capable of scoring 20 goals next season.  I wouldn’t consider selling him for a moment, but if he did go I would be very disappointed if he went for anything less than £10m.  But what I’d really like to see is us build a team around him, because I believe he’s going to surprise a lot of you.

I completely disagree but there we are, that's life

As others here have said, he's not actually a natural footballer. He's an athlete with a well developed physique for his age who happens to play football. So he's just not my type, I'm afraid.

[RedEyez]

Probably explains why he wasn’t involved last game of the season

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

We sell because we can get a better replacement, in the current market. Maybe more than one. Players who aren't learning on the job and who can fill a specific role immediately - what is Semenyo? A winger, a wide forward, a centre forward? Right here, right now we don't have the time to wait and found out, given the mess we're in.

In a way, he would be a victim of our circumstances if we decided to sell him, although moving to the Premier League would hardly be a hardship.

Personally, I'd sell because I find the idea of Semenyo ever scoring 10-15 goals fanciful in the extreme. 

Not against selling him. Just not for 3m. We are a development club and Semenyo can progress more with us. So we’d be selling in a buyer’s market with an asset that will probably get better. We sell a year too early often. Bryan and Reid understandable. Kodjia and Webster we had leverage. Brentford were able to keep Watkins for more than a season. We need to have a better balance. All that said, we do need to keep an open mind this summer. 
 

Also, who is replacing him? Someone from lower league? What would Semenyo’s stats look like at a Peterborough? It is easy to say sell and get a cheaper and better replacement but in practice it is much much harder. 

[Coppello]

He would be an excellent fit for Palace who like to play on the counter attack and have a good recent history of exciting wide players. The opportunity to learn from the likes of Zaha and Eze should not be sniffed at, particularly as players of a similar mould. Palace fans love raw, 'street' footballers and local lads. He grew up in relatively close proximity to Selhurst so I'm sure it will be attractive for him.

From our perspective, we're going through a rebuild with many players leaving the club with their contracts expiring. We shouldn't be selling a player who is developing into a key part of our squad for measly sum. He's got a lot to learn and is far from the finished product but he's one of the few entertaining players we have. The fees talked about are not enough for us to guarantee we can replace him with any quality. 

[tin]

While there's no doubt he's an athelte who might improve, I see a player that's neither a winger or striker. His two league goals were charge downs and he's consistently shown a lack of composure in key positions. Unlike late bloomers like Reid, Semenyo hasn't come through any academy from a young age and doesn't have that football brain. I thought the penny might have dropped in the Cup at Millwall, but we've seen nothing like that since. 

Personally, I would accept £3m+ for Semenyo in the current financial climate with several add-ons to ensure payment if he does develop. Those funds could be used to inject more quality over quantity back into the squad. If a deal could be done quickly and reinforcements could be in before the start of pre-season, it's a no-brainer for me. 

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

What’s happening to Semenyo happens to lots of young players.  Take Ivan Toney, huge promise but for his first six seasons he scored about 35 goals in total.  In the last three seasons he’s scored over seventy, playing in sides that understand him and with the benefit of growing experience.  Put Semenyo in the right set up and I think he’s quite capable of scoring 20 goals next season.  I wouldn’t consider selling him for a moment, but if he did go I would be very disappointed if he went for anything less than £10m.  But what I’d really like to see is us build a team around him, because I believe he’s going to surprise a lot of you.

I think he easily could surprise us but so much can happen in a player's career between 21 and 23/24. Best recent example I can think of is Saido Berahino. At Semenyo's age he was on the fringes of the England squad, being linked the various big Premier League clubs and looked like a fantastic talent. At 27 he's on the fringes of a Belgian football club.

And then you've got Connor Wickham. At 21 he'd just come good at Sunderland and was being touted for a place in England's 2014 World Cup squad. Seven years and multiple injuries later he's probably out at Palace this season and may struggle to find even a Championship side who'll take a chance.

I think Semenyo, if he stayed, could be a key player next season. But I also think - with every young player for a Championship club - it is a balance between keeping them and gambling on them fulfilling their potential or cashing in at the right moment and, if we get it wrong, we could find we've a player whose annoyed that his chance at the top flight has passed and who - sometimes through injuries and no fault of their own - suddenly finds it is too late to fulfil their potential.

I'd rather we kept Semenyo that sold him but I also think that, if we got £5 million and a generous sell-on clause AND if he had his heart set on a Premier League move, there are very valid reasons why the club might choose to sell. 

[IAmNick]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

What’s happening to Semenyo happens to lots of young players.  Take Ivan Toney, huge promise but for his first six seasons he scored about 35 goals in total.  In the last three seasons he’s scored over seventy, playing in sides that understand him and with the benefit of growing experience.  Put Semenyo in the right set up and I think he’s quite capable of scoring 20 goals next season.  I wouldn’t consider selling him for a moment, but if he did go I would be very disappointed if he went for anything less than £10m.  But what I’d really like to see is us build a team around him, because I believe he’s going to surprise a lot of you.

But did Toney go from scoring 1 or 2 a season to suddenly scoring 20? No.

8 in 14/15 (L2)

12 in 16/17 (L1)

12 in 17/18 (L1)

16 in 18/19 (L1)

24 in 19/20 (L1)

31 in 20/21 (Champ)

There's a gradual increase there over the seasons you mention - granted Semenyo is younger but I'd be extremely surprised if he went from scoring 2 goals off his arse in around 40 appearances for us, to scoring 20 (our highest league scorer since Tammy) in one season. What makes you think he's capable of that exactly?

You're expecting him to go from scoring 3 in L2 3 seasons ago, 2 in the Champ this year, then 20 in the Champ. We need to be realistic.

I've heard this said so many times over the years about young players. People have a huge confirmation bias when it comes to them, forgetting all the ones who didn't make it they were backing. There's a reason you remember the names of them, but forget the other 3-5 young strikers at every club in L1 who haven't gone on to do what Toney has.

I hope you're right of course and quoting me in a year! That'd make us all very happy.

Edited May 12, 2021 by IAmNick

[Super]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

What’s happening to Semenyo happens to lots of young players.  Take Ivan Toney, huge promise but for his first six seasons he scored about 35 goals in total.  In the last three seasons he’s scored over seventy, playing in sides that understand him and with the benefit of growing experience.  Put Semenyo in the right set up and I think he’s quite capable of scoring 20 goals next season.  I wouldn’t consider selling him for a moment, but if he did go I would be very disappointed if he went for anything less than £10m.  But what I’d really like to see is us build a team around him, because I believe he’s going to surprise a lot of you.

Not really sure what this is based on as he isn't a goalscorer. He does offer other things though he is quick and direct and could be a place in the side for him but he will never score 20 goals in a season.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

Why would we sell him, he's a boy with so much potential, with a decent year of coaching under his belt he could be worth a lot more than 5m, who are we going to buy for 5m to replace him is what you have to ask yourself.

[beaverface]

Another way of looking at it is...

He has 2years+1year contract left, and we're being offered £3million.

Basically, worst case scenario, if we keep him, it's costing us £1million per season to have a player of his ability.

If he continues in a similar vein of form next season, he's probably still going to be worth £3million this time next year with 2 years contract left, so we're still in credit. 

Whereas if he blossoms, we've had a season of great performances, and his value would've rocketed also.

The flip side to this, is that he completely becomes useless and there no value left in him, in which case, we would've lost £3million.

 

Not quite sure of my point entirely, but I think I'm saying it's probably worth keeping him for another season, but I suppose the crux of the matter, is whether we need that £3million to spend right now.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

13 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

You've been a member of this forum since 2004 so I look forward to you providing the links to posts where you said Bolasie would be a £25m player after leaving us, playing for one of the biggest clubs in England.

Yours, in anticipation... 

Strange response - I just pointed out that when you posted “We all said the same about Bolasie...” you can’t presume to talk on behalf of every City fan ... I didn’t refer to my own views on the Bolasie transfer, they weren’t and aren’t relevant to the point I was making. 

Surely you can see that posting “We all said...” infers that you know the views of everyone who follows our club?

Yours, in anticipation ...

[CyderInACan]

29 minutes ago, beaverface said:

Not quite sure of my point entirely, but I think I'm saying it's probably worth keeping him for another season, but I suppose the crux of the matter, is whether we need that £3million to spend right now.

I think we could probably do better with £3m in our pockets to strengthen the team than persist with him in the hope he comes good. Pearson will be nowhere near as invested in the Semenyo project as LJ/DH were, so I would imagine he might see him as an asset to realise and reinvest the money in several key positions. 

[BLRed]

Would say 5 mill rising to 10mill plus a decent sell on fee percentage included. Can’t have our pants pulled down for best prospects.

[Garland-sweden]

He is one of few in City who makes something when he get the ball. Only 2 or 3 odd goals this season but I Think he can be a good player. Was thinking COD could be good when he came, but no. Rather keep him, he is an interesting player.

[SecretSam]

It's a very simple risk equation. Balancing the risk if we keep him - that "this" is all he has, he doesn't develop, etc., vs the risk that if we sell now, we miss out on his potential and don't necessarily get duly rewarded for it. On the other hand, we get £Xm in the bank that we could spend (although with no guarantee that will work out), versus the risk that we have a Ribeiro/Brown situation, where we're offered a moderate fee by a bigger club, don't take it, but then never get that offer again.

I could write an equation if I could be bothered.

Me? I think £3m doesn't get you a lot these days, whereas we know what we have already. I'd be inclined to keep him another year, see how he goes.

But ultimately, the player himself will probably decide.

[Simon bristol]

3 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

It's a very simple risk equation. Balancing the risk if we keep him - that "this" is all he has, he doesn't develop, etc., vs the risk that if we sell now, we miss out on his potential and don't necessarily get duly rewarded for it. On the other hand, we get £Xm in the bank that we could spend (although with no guarantee that will work out), versus the risk that we have a Ribeiro/Brown situation, where we're offered a moderate fee by a bigger club, don't take it, but then never get that offer again.

I could write an equation if I could be bothered.

Me? I think £3m doesn't get you a lot these days, whereas we know what we have already. I'd be inclined to keep him another year, see how he goes.

But ultimately, the player himself will probably decide.

Dunno about the 3 million not getting you a lot these days.... the market has crashed outside the premier league, and i doubt many clubs will be spending much. Also, thats our wage bill covered for a few months if SL gets fed up of paying it out of his pocket

[Swede]

2 hours ago, beaverface said:

Another way of looking at it is...

He has 2years+1year contract left, and we're being offered £3million.

Basically, worst case scenario, if we keep him, it's costing us £1million per season to have a player of his ability.

If he continues in a similar vein of form next season, he's probably still going to be worth £3million this time next year with 2 years contract left, so we're still in credit. 

Whereas if he blossoms, we've had a season of great performances, and his value would've rocketed also.

The flip side to this, is that he completely becomes useless and there no value left in him, in which case, we would've lost £3million.

 

Not quite sure of my point entirely, but I think I'm saying it's probably worth keeping him for another season, but I suppose the crux of the matter, is whether we need that £3million to spend right now.

 

AND it is palace FFS! The stripey nigels!

[Swede]

If they're offering £3M then you know they really value him at £6M so I would say £10M

[marmite]

Seems pretty clear to me that if we sold him for 3 mil and want to replace him with a 3 mil player, we could buy him back!!!  What I mean is would we get better for the same money?

[Davefevs]

Firstly, lots of good arguments for and against both the value and his ability / potential.

6 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Agree we should be getting far more for Semenyo. I'm not sure why some people are happy with a few million for a player a prem team are after.

Right wing in a 442, his lack of goals won't really matter to Roy. I wouldn't be surprised if he develops that side of his game anyway.

Nige is actually impressed by our recruitment. So hopefully won't be a problem there.

 

 

1) because some of us worry that potential might not be achieved, nor do we honestly know where the ceiling is either.

2) PL can take a punt, even at £3-5m. Of course, drive for more if you can….although according to Kid, City value him at £5m!

For me it’s not his lack of goals, nor his potential, it’s more a fit to a system.  He’s an off the cuff type of player.  In the right team that might be perfect, but in another team it might not be.  That’s where some of my concerns are.  I don’t think he’s a natural wide player.  He plays best between the full-back and the centre-back, and I’m not sure that’s a good fit…..with what we’ve seen from an NP system so far.  That might change.

Pearson has started him 7 times, used him from bench 7 times (post Boro, where he was subbed on).

Re recruitment, he isn’t gonna say they’re crap either, playing Devil’s advocate? It’s obvious that “recruitment” needs to be much more than a group of data / video analysts reporting into a CEO.  The data / video analysts might be shit-hot in technical skills.  My big question has always been - can they interpret the requirements of the football manager to find the right players, or evaluate a player recommended as being a good fit for the system the manager wants to employ.  You need more than “coding” skills to do that.  In a non-football world, that’s what I do as a day job.

6 hours ago, pongo88 said:

The main factor in deciding whether to keep or sell should be does NP think he will ever deliver an end product on a regular basis. For all his undoubted talent, at present he doesn’t. Getting him to change won’t be easy as, at present, when in a shooting or crossing position he tends to panic and just blasts the ball as hard as he can. 

Kinda what I’ve written above.

[Bristol Oil Services]

16 minutes ago, Swede said:

If they're offering £3M then you know they really value him at £6M so I would say £10M

Yep. So, £12m, do I hear 13?

[deadredfred]

We’ve been the worst attacking side in Championship history this season. By some margin. Assessing Semenyo’s ability to score goals and assist them in a team that creates absolutely nothing is not a fair or worthwhile way to judge his abilities. 

Give him a season of decent coaching amongst a team that could actually create a chance, and I think he could flourish. 

 

[Sturny]

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

I reckon Semenyo will flourish under Nige. He’s pacy and if he can utilise that ability to its full benefit he’ll become quite an asset.

He’s been learning from the likes of Wells and Martin on when to make runs and find space and work on his finishing.

Next campaign could be his breakthrough season.

Oh god, no wonder he wants to leave!