Derby County

[Mr Popodopolous]

Derby fans who suggest suing the EFL for damages, if the next charges aren't copper bottomed, still should read the bit about "Membership shall constitute". 

As part of being members of the EFL, you basically have to go through their Processes, not least Arbitraton. 

That also surely rules out any action by Wycombe however.

[Elruliri]

On 25/06/2021 at 15:36, downendcity said:

Wayne or Coleen’s?

Derby could be fined Tena Pants. 

[Hxj]

18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Afternoon @Hxj- what's the feasibility of this in your view, could the EFL suspend Derby's fixtures or is it up to the Clubs in q?

I am sure the EFL have the right to do so; but I doubt it will happen.  It just gets too complicated too quickly.

Personally I think that the slow death dance of DCFC will become a lesson in corporate greed.  How a once great club went all out and failed.  If the EFL are true to their word then DCFC should be on a hard transfer embargo at the end of the month, no one has come in yet. Despite all the press releases by the club they still haven’t stated that they meet the P&S loss limits for all seasons.  So looks like a points deduction this season as well.  Also heard that a couple of senior contracted players are negotiating moves away.

So small squad, points deduction and Rooney as manager should mean an exciting season propping up the table.

[Lanterne Rouge]

9 minutes ago, Hxj said:

I am sure the EFL have the right to do so; but I doubt it will happen.  It just gets too complicated too quickly.

Personally I think that the slow death dance of DCFC will become a lesson in corporate greed.  How a once great club went all out and failed.  If the EFL are true to their word then DCFC should be on a hard transfer embargo at the end of the month, no one has come in yet. Despite all the press releases by the club they still haven’t stated that they meet the P&S loss limits for all seasons.  So looks like a points deduction this season as well.  Also heard that a couple of senior contracted players are negotiating moves away.

So small squad, points deduction and Rooney as manager should mean an exciting season propping up the table.

If you take out the `Rooney as manager` bit it reads just like Sheffield Wednesday last season

[Hxj]

33 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

If you take out the `Rooney as manager` bit it reads just like Sheffield Wednesday last season

One day clubs will learn .....

[Jim Davey]

13 hours ago, Elruliri said:

Derby could be fined Tena Pants. 

are you italian

[Mr Popodopolous]

Notice that Kieran Maguire has now mentioned the whole Derby Auditor for 2018 ie the guy from the Auditors who signed the Accounts that year states in his bio that he's a passionate Derby fan.

Bombshell..except it was mentioned on here 2 years ago IIRC. There's much more besides? In fact wasn't it mentioned in this thread a few days ago.

There is of course more besides but again public forum even if in public domain? 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Notice that Kieran Maguire has now mentioned the whole Derby Auditor for 2018 ie the guy from the Auditors who signed the Accounts that year states in his bio that he's a passionate Derby fan.

Bombshell..except it was mentioned on here 2 years ago IIRC. There's much more besides? In fact wasn't it mentioned in this thread a few days ago.

There is of course more besides but again public forum even if in public domain? 

You may remember a good year or so ago I sent you a LinkedIn profile of said auditor

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You may remember a good year or so ago I sent you a LinkedIn profile of said auditor

Had forgotten but now you reminded me, yep I do!

[havanatopia]

On 27/06/2021 at 03:22, Hxj said:

One day clubs will learn .....

But only when the FL dish out proper punishment. Until then this sort of thing will continue to be routine... So who's up next? 

[Hxj]

7 hours ago, havanatopia said:

So who's up next? 

Reading, Stoke, Blackburn all looking dodgy, plus some others.

Difficult to see how it will all play out this season with the Covid exemptions and averaging.  There will be some interesting arguments behind closed doors as to what is acceptable as a deduction.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Reading, Stoke, Blackburn all looking dodgy, plus some others.

Difficult to see how it will all play out this season with the Covid exemptions and averaging.  There will be some interesting arguments behind closed doors as to what is acceptable as a deduction.

Venkys just put £29m in (guess this is covering off losses / turning into shares?)

[Hxj]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Venkys just put £29m in (guess this is covering off losses / turning into shares?)

Probably just a vain end of year attempt to make the balance sheet look a little better.  They haven't put any share capital in for a good few years, so I suspect that the EFL were also getting twitchy.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Hxj said:

Reading, Stoke, Blackburn all looking dodgy, plus some others.

Difficult to see how it will all play out this season with the Covid exemptions and averaging.  There will be some interesting arguments behind closed doors as to what is acceptable as a deduction.

Agreed.

Reading I have heard are arguing that a fine would be appropriate. Stoke will probably be looked on more favourably than Reading on one level because they are trying to shift players and the Loan Strategy began January 2020. Mitigation possible.

Blackburn are the interesting one- Accounts due at CH tomorrow basically, they claim already submitted but not there yet. I think they might be in limitations and soft sanctions territory as opposed to points deductions at this stage.

A bit of confusion stems here from the fact that Venkys London Limited is listed as the parent, but its accounts only run to 31st March, whereas Blackburn Rovers company runs to the more conventional 30th June. Which one is used for P&S and how are the two dates reconciled, only the Club and EFL know for sure.

I also wonder about Fulham. There was a snippet last August/September that they would have been under a Soft Embargo going into 2020/21 had they stayed down- how might the EFL view this on return?

Caveat- Had they stayed down, with the rejigged and averaged Covid figures, their 3 year Upper Limit would have been £55.5m. Promotion meant it was £72m and even the instant relegation means it's £72m. The addition of 4 Upper Loss limits divided by 4 x 3=Upper Loss Limit in these times.

I have read that Fulham Leisure Limited lost £45.2m in 2019/20 but that's a headline figure- will have included promotion bonuses which of course are excluded from FFP but also a significant fee (pure profit) for Ryan Sessegnon which may not have been replicated. What we don't know is if it included eg a big write down on Player valuations which helps them later etc.

Their Accounts are due at CH tomorrow, still no sign...

[Mr Popodopolous]

Some Derby fans are also making two interesting arguments.

1) This revision to Amortisation actually helps them, will check against the figures the Derby fan posted on here, think it will post 2018/19 but not before.

2) Leeds would have failed FFP for sure had they stayed down- I'd say a sale of Phillips, cutbacks in other areas plus of course the combined average for Covid- Bielsa and co probably off as well, to be replaced by a more routine Championship manager which would clearly have saved money- they could have restructured and avoided Hard Sanctions I expect, albeit with a significant impact to competitiveness on the pitch. Also Aston Villa could have run into issues without promotion, that would have been extraordinary given that their upcoming hole was including the Stadium Sale and HS2 Revenue, as well as Parachute Payments x 3.

Thirdly, a suggestion that they don't need to go Straight Line but could either make their Accounting Policy more clear or look for a further method that is compliant with FRS 102 but suits their purposes FFP wise.

The flipside of course is that significant Amortisation spikes remain surely- they cannot have it all ways. Revising it back then helps now of course.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Hxj]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A bit of confusion stems here from the fact that Venkys London Limited is listed as the parent, but its accounts only run to 31st March, whereas Blackburn Rovers company runs to the more conventional 30th June. Which one is used for P&S and how are the two dates reconciled, only the Club and EFL know for sure.

If Venkys is the TopCo for FFP purposes then group accounts have to be prepared for the year ending on a date in the period from 31 May to 31 July - see reg 1.1.3 penultimate paragraph:

"If the accounting reference date falls at any other time, separate accounts for the Club or the Group as appropriate must be prepared for a period of twelve months ending on a date between 31 May and 31 July inclusive, and in such a case “Annual Accounts” means those accounts."

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Some Derby fans are also making two interesting pointless arguments.

That reads better!

Firstly the problem with the amortisation method used was, quoting the actual decision at para 108.a, that

" ... it was impermissible in amortising under the cost model in relation to the accounts for 2015/16, 2016/17 and
2017/18 for the Club to take into account possible resale values of players."

So using a different method with resale values is still impermissible.  Using some sort of flexible amortisation is possible, but that would need extensive documentation to demonstrate and we already know that that does not exist.   As far as I can see it is a simple straight line, nothing else is possible.

There really is not enough good data out there to determine if Derby failed or passed FFP.

If Leeds had failed FFP then they would have had to have taken the punishment, but there is no evidence that they did, I am sure that they actually passed it.  Failing is cheating, not failing is not cheating.

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I also wonder about Fulham.

Also one living on the edge, but I suspect that a good dose of averaging, Parachutes and judicious covid related amortisation will see them through.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Hxj

[Mr Popodopolous]

May as well check it out using the numbers provided by @AnotherDerbyFan plus those in the Written Reasons.

The bit about being better off- yes and no.

Upfront is an irrelevant consideration here, so too is Original surely as the lack of Contract Extension methods...

Between us, we've already covered albeit with different takes, the 2015/16 to 2017/18 so let's have a bit of a look using their own figures at the potential 3 years to 2019. These are quick calculations, very much open to Interpretation, Argument etc. 

Figures are FFP Profits or Losses, as opposed to headline ones.

2016/17- Using the Derby method. Amortisation=£5.04m. Loss for the year=£13,407,000. The Revised Amortisation in the extension method was £12.58m...LOSS £13,407,000 + £7.54m=£20,947,000.

2017/18- Using the Derby method. Amortisation=£6.54m. PROFIT for the year=£7,207,000. The Revised Amortisation in the extension method was £14.10m...£353,000 FFP LOSS. That said, you add back as per the Derby fan £2m swing in Ince Profit, and they also refer to some other upwardly revised Profit- needed to be £2-2.5m from that angle to avoid an FFP breach IIRC.

2018/19 is quite interesting!

Using the Derby method, Amortisation=£4.60m. LOSS for the year=£31,517,000. Revised Amortisation in that year was £11.71m, the Aggregate 3 year loss with Revised figures fell to £37.1m hence Process of elimination means that the loss for the year in q was £30.9m. Add in £7.11m to that...£38,010,000. HOWEVER the Vydra sale- I am sure Weimann was 2019 not 2018 but anyway if accounted for to 2017/18, it's irrelevant to the guesstimates for 2018/19, under the Derby method they had a loss of £1.1m on disposal of Players- £11.7m fees for £12.8m book value- does that swing to an improvement of maybe £10m? All rough and fairly loose calculations. 

Fairly sure they could well breach to 2018/19 under Straight Line with extension methods. Question is by how much, albeit it's irrelevant to this specific case or set of charges.

All a bit of conjecture though given no Accounts for the last two seasons at CH.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

I believe that this is likely BS, so let's not get excited- I'm taking it with masses of salt...if it's true it would be huge news! However my gut feeling is that it isn't.

However, there is a suggestion that Derby might get a -4 for the season just gone.

Do I believe it? No. His bio says he's a journo for Metro but I've no idea of the veracity etc. No written reasons out yet so I don't see how...

I still firmly believe sadly that they will start at this level, but I hope it's full steam ahead with Assessments, Reassessments, Embargoes and the like. No change to the schedule, reassess multiple 3 year periods with deductions applied/pushed for where required, and Embargoes in play where necessary.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Read a little more, the journo...if he even is a journo- it's surely rubbish- unfortunately.

I would love it to be true clearly, not just because of the actions/alleged actions of the club (well ownership) but the all-in nature of a lot of their fans, Mel has EFL on strings etc. God I hope it has some truth.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

As for Wycombe and their threats of litigation, a few thoughts. I was gleeful and found the threat amusing but...

1. Surely the EFL Regulations- Agreement to Arbitrate- would knock this one on the head? Clubs are not to sue the League, the League are not to sue Clubs- and if we see the Middlesbrough v Derby precedent, cases between Clubs surely are to also be settled via Arbitration.
2. The £10-12m? I believe this figure to be overstated. £5-10m, probably towards the mid point or lower midpoint of this range probably more realistic. Some ticketing, some corporate- but largely the gap between TV and Solidarity Payments between Championship and League One. £6-8m maybe?
3. Is it possible that Wycombe were taking the Championship Revenue in its entirety and not factoring in what they would get in League One- as in Championship Revenue - League One Revenue=Loss. Is it possible they were just looking at Championship Revenue while ignoring the League One Revenue, making the whole of a Championship season as opposed to the potential gap/loss the basis for their claim.
4. Was always under the impression that Arbitration couldn't award such hefty- technically perhaps, punitive- damages- although I have to admit, not a clue on this last point!

In short, it's a bold claim but I don't see much chance of success and as in Point 2 and 3, figures potentially seem overstated.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Kodjias Wrist]

23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You would have to say that Wycombe have been a pretty fortuitous team over the last two seasons if this went through too.

Finished outside the playoffs in league one but points per game put them back in it, eventually leading them to promotion. Now to stay up thanks to a Derby points deduction, they certainly gave it a good go.

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

You would have to say that Wycombe have been a pretty fortuitous team over the last two seasons if this went through too.

Finished outside the playoffs in league one but points per game put them back in it, eventually leading them to promotion. Now to stay up thanks to a Derby points deduction, they certainly gave it a good go.

This is true, forgot about the PPG but didn't that put them in the frame ahead of Peterborough?

Their form towards the end of the season was fantastic though, unbelievable run from nowhere- 6 wins and in total 20 pts from last 11 games- they only won 5 of their first 35!?

As for this (remote at best) chance, I usually would say "Think of the fans" but most seem to think they're aok, nothing doing etc so in a sense up theirs.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

You would have to say that Wycombe have been a pretty fortuitous team over the last two seasons if this went through too.

Finished outside the playoffs in league one but points per game put them back in it, eventually leading them to promotion. Now to stay up thanks to a Derby points deduction, they certainly gave it a good go.

And to think they`re only where they are because they cheated the family club many years ago.

I`d sue if I was the g*s.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Probably a tad on the harsh side my little rant earlier about up theirs, but at the same time a lot of their fans at least based on some forums or Twitter seemed to support the general pursuit of loopholes so it's a mixed bag.

More than any rant, I'm actually genuinely surprised at the number who seem to back the Club/Mel Morris, are happy to go along with the Accounting methods that have led them to this place, unfair treatment by the EFL whatever.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Hxj]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm actually genuinely surprised at the number who seem to back the Club/Mel Morris

That's because you spend far too much time on this board and the general hatred for Steve Lansdown for not putting enough of his money in to a club that he his hated for owning!

[exAtyeoMax]

[maxjak]

 As an example of Derby's budgetary organisation............they paid Peterborough 5 Million for Jack Marriott three years ago, and he has just re-signed for Peterborough on a free?       

[Sweeneys Penalties]

9 minutes ago, maxjak said:

 As an example of Derby's budgetary organisation............they paid Peterborough 5 Million for Jack Marriott three years ago, and he has just re-signed for Peterborough on a free?       

how does the Fammy deal make us look?

[vicky10]

1 hour ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

how does the Fammy deal make us look?

Wonder how much Derby still owed the Posh from the original deal...and JM must hae takn a huge drop in wages as it was reported he signed on 20k a week !!

 

[Lrrr]

Well who didn't see that coming....

[petehinton]

They’ll go down this season either way. Rooney clearly isn’t a good manager, no cash to sack him, and they have about 7 first team players 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just got in and seen the news. 

Hopefully the Embargo will remain in play between now and August 18th. The revision of this 3 year period will also impact what went before and after, hopefully the EFL continue to keep maximum pressure irrespective of ownership.

Statement and Written Reasons below.

https://www.efl.com/news/2021/july/efl-statement-derby-county-sanction

[BLRed]

Shambles they haven’t been relegated now but hopefully a huge points deduction is provided for the coming season, the transfer embargo continues and they go into the season with only 13 contracted senior players, no centre backs  and a minus 20 point start so relegation beckons anyway

[Red Cloud]

stinks of back-handers

[Davefevs]

We need to see their adjusted accounts to see whether they did break FFP or not.  They will at some point, either that or will have a decimated squad that will go down.  Morris has screwed them up.

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Red Cloud said:

stinks of back-handers

More a case of "it's Wayne Rooney's Derby County so of course we have to go easy on them. Now if it was Wycombe ..."

[Midred]

Can any of you self employed workers imagine being allowed to resubmit your tax returns over several years until HMRC found one that they liked and just fining you a  £100 admin charge!

Edited July 2, 2021 by Midred

[Maltshoveller]

17 minutes ago, Red Cloud said:

stinks of back-handers

More like the norm for football

Look after the bigger club 

Shock waves if Derby got done Who cares about WW!!!!!

[sephjnr]

28 minutes ago, chinapig said:

More a case of "it's Wayne Rooney's Derby County so of course we have to go easy on them. Now if it was Wycombe ..."

Or Wigan. Or Bury. Or Bolton. Or Macclesfield. Wednesday got bitchslapped with points lost a season too late, I wonder if they won't touch Derby after the fine after all.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

EFL bottled it again? 

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

EFL bottled it again? 

I reckon the EFL statement was meant to read "we instructed our lawyers not to find any grounds for appeal ...".

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, sephjnr said:

Or Wigan. Or Bury. Or Bolton. Or Macclesfield. Wednesday got bitchslapped with points lost a season too late, I wonder if they won't touch Derby after the fine after all.

If Parry is anything like his predecessor Harvey he will already be advising Derby how to finesse their revised accounts so they look like they didn't breach FFP.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Message to the harder of thinking and triumphalist among Derby fans.

1) You appear to be still under Embargo and rightly so.

2) I've read those Written Reasons. My supposition is the EFL will not accept any method of Amortisation that deviates from their method. If the dispute remains then so too should Embargo conditions

3) Your claims that Embargo should be a mitigating factor. I assumed it was just FFP and the wage hitch in January but it appears that the club had missed transfer instalments and had missed HMRC payments.

4) Quite rightly, your Club should be ineligible for the HMRC PAYE Loan. Clubs who breach Regulations seem to be ineligible.

5) Of further interest was the snippet whereby the Club claimed Reputational Damage and Harm to Investment Opportunities.

6) In terms of Points 3 and 5, these claims for mitigation were rightly dismissed, because Point 3 was within the Regulations, wholly separate to the matter at hand and in the case of both Points 3 and 5, the Club have brought everything on themselves through their actions so it's a red herring of sorts.

An intriguing claim is that the Profit on Pride Park can be revised upwards. If this isn't the difference between the £74.4m and £81.1m...can't see EFL accepting it- if this is the case then I'd argue that the EFL should take up the Rental and Days Use issue.

Pondering a trip to Pride Park next season with the mates, certainly a Ground I haven't done...

Edited July 2, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

PS, just so you're aware, the sale and reincorporation of Pride Park into the Group or a new Group as part of a takeover, could yet constitute an FFP issue. I expect the EFL to do anything and everything in their power where required.

Just slap Regulation 16.20 on indefinitely until such time as they prove they can be trusted.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

At this time, I care not whether the EFL achieve aims via fair means or foul, the ends very much justify the means.

I would also suggest that on Receipt of the Restated Accounts and P&S, that the EFL should really take a lot of time over it, really make sure no mistakes made- wonder if it can be taken up to the start of September...Embargo remains.

...Or, failing that, if the Accounts are not in the method that the EFL would like, they should refuse to accept or send them back- naturally with the accompanying Embargo remaining in the intervening periods.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[downendcity]

Derby enters the EFL entrance exam.

The EFL tell them the questions, but Derby still fails.

The EFL give them hints as to the correct answers, but Derby still fails.

The EFL give them the answers and Derby still fails.

The EFL tell Derby to give them the paper and they will fill in the correct answers for them.

Derby passes.

Q.E.D.

Edited July 2, 2021 by downendcity

[The Gasbuster]

Is anybody actually surprised at this outcome ?

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said:

Is anybody actually surprised at this outcome ?

I reckon it suits the EFL. Does anybody really believe they wanted to relegate Derby? A bit of posturing to look tough then a big sigh of relief from Parry I suspect.

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Derby enters the EFL entrance exam.

The EFL tell them the questions, but Derby still fails.

The EFL give them hints as to the correct answers, but Derby still fails.

The EFL give them the answers and Derby still fails.

The EFL tell Derby to give them the paper and they will fill in the correct answers for them.

Derby passes.

Q.E.D.

In fairness I think the EFL have pushed hard here….but legally they can only do so much until they see restated accounts.  That’s when the fun and games will start.  Fat Lady hasn’t even been born yet!

[Mr Popodopolous]

:laugh:, some amusing reading on that DCFCFans site tonight- don't like me very much- good!

Rambalin is the halfwit I referred to before, but not upset at all as I know shit is still potentially down the track- and furthermore, I read in full the Written Reasons and it definitely referred to HMRC payments- it's hard to keep up as to where grounds for one embargo stops and grounds for another begins!  Not actually upset at all, good match between Belgium and Italy.

You could try it GoC but I expect the EFL not to accept anything other than Straight Line or Straight Line with Extension. Tells me that it could be Embargo time again, in theory. Unless I am misunderstanding your point but I expect the EFL will be insistent IMO that it's their methodology and only their methodology.

Nose to spite face springs to mind- EFL don't accept, Embargo time returns/remains!

Feeling is mutual, but know-nothing nob'eads is a good look in the mirror tbh, given some of the rubbish posted between Jan 2020 and now on your site...all that bollocks about vendetta, EFL being graceless and so on- never seen such a bunch of charmless nerks as Fletch off Porridge might say- how I laughed at the theory that a) the Embargoes and b) The so-called damage to Business and Reputational Prospects could constitute mitigating factors.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Now in fairness, I intend not to tarnish all Derby fans with the same brush. I generally have seen the discussions with @DerbyFan and @AnotherDerbyFan as good ones but that site- well what can one say.

However, for a more balanced perspective from some DCFC fans...away from that forum some sensible and more even-handed ones do appear to exist.

I believe Mr. Redfern to be particularly decently informed on matters, from what I've read in general.

Another good thread- references the claim to a new attempted Amortisation method....EFL will pushback for certain if they try it, just keep applying that Regulation 16.20.

Plus another.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Very interesting Tweet by Kieran Maguire...

Seems to suggest that the £30m from the Revaluation Reserve could bolster the Profit on Pride Park by, er, up to £30m??

How about remain under Embargo while disputing it- that would stop them spending any of it, although surely the Sevco 5112 Limited Accounts more relevant for P&S purposes

Edited July 2, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Jerseybean]

This article suggests there could even be a switch after the season starts….https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/crazy-fixture-scenario-derby-wycombe-24426643?fbclid=IwAR3LOX_JSuzfJJR2FkON9mpMZH07OV4vfKbXKaJGAMwqgKK04nOet6yAdfk
 

Whereas this EFL statement concludes with saying the fixtures as published will stand: https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2021/07/efl-statement-derby-county-sanction-written-reasons

TBH I have no idea if this saga is now done and dusted or not! 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Jerseybean said:

This article suggests there could even be a switch after the season starts….https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/crazy-fixture-scenario-derby-wycombe-24426643?fbclid=IwAR3LOX_JSuzfJJR2FkON9mpMZH07OV4vfKbXKaJGAMwqgKK04nOet6yAdfk
 

Whereas this EFL statement concludes with saying the fixtures as published will stand: https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2021/07/efl-statement-derby-county-sanction-written-reasons

TBH I have no idea if this saga is now done and dusted or not! 

Nothing will happen now with respect to 20-21 season.  If they fail FFP when accounts are re-stated in August then we can expect to see points deduction for this season.  Those points deductions might be covering more than one period I guess.

Hope they are under embargo until then.

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

This article suggests there could even be a switch after the season starts….https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/crazy-fixture-scenario-derby-wycombe-24426643?fbclid=IwAR3LOX_JSuzfJJR2FkON9mpMZH07OV4vfKbXKaJGAMwqgKK04nOet6yAdfk
 

Whereas this EFL statement concludes with saying the fixtures as published will stand: https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2021/07/efl-statement-derby-county-sanction-written-reasons

TBH I have no idea if this saga is now done and dusted or not! 

Doesn't the Mirror piece predate the EFL statement?

The latter roughly translates as "phew, we don't have to relegate Derby and our lawyers have given us cover so we can pretend we would have been tough without actually doing anything".

When the revised accounts are in my money's on a 6 point deduction (if any) reduced to 3 on appeal. Possibly agreed in advance with Derby.

[hertsexile]

Let's face the legal process has made a complete mockery of the Derby case legal loopholes have once again allowed a team to get away with bending the rules. The sooner we get a fair and just playing field regarding financial matters in the football the better it has been shown that FFP rules do not work !

Parachute payments need to be scrapped as we are rewarding failure use the money wasted on this to increase winning pots for successful teams that win promotion from the lower leagues

 

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, hertsexile said:

Let's face the legal process has made a complete mockery of the Derby case legal loopholes have once again allowed a team to get away with bending the rules. The sooner we get a fair and just playing field regarding financial matters in the football the better it has been shown that FFP rules do not work !

Parachute payments need to be scrapped as we are rewarding failure use the money wasted on this to increase winning pots for successful teams that win promotion from the lower leagues

 

Don't worry, the 'fan led' review (the one with precisely one fan representative) will sort it out. As long as it does what the big Premier League clubs want.

[downendcity]

Donald Rumsfeld died this week and is famous for this quote:

“........as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know"

Seems to summarise the EFL/Derby situation in  nutshell.

 

[havanatopia]

I remember those quotes. Rumsfeld will not be missed.

As for the Football League. I think this decision effectively kills any respect anyone still had for the governing body and effectively brings the game into disrepute; by its governing body. That has to be a first.

For the FL to come out and say 'insufficient evidence for appeal' is a total lie . It has always been a whitewash exercise from the beginning.

Whatever punishment is dished out will be puny compared to relegating the terminal liars. 

Like I said before 71 members should resign from the governing body, making it immediately defunct, and set up a new one. Derby can go swivel in the sun. 

Parry was supposed to be the tough breath of fresh air. He's just a limp ***** like the rest of them. That meal with Morris in west London was the ultimate stitch up.

Edited July 3, 2021 by havanatopia

[BCFC Rich]

3 hours ago, hertsexile said:

Let's face the legal process has made a complete mockery of the Derby case legal loopholes have once again allowed a team to get away with bending the rules. The sooner we get a fair and just playing field regarding financial matters in the football the better it has been shown that FFP rules do not work !

Parachute payments need to be scrapped as we are rewarding failure use the money wasted on this to increase winning pots for successful teams that win promotion from the lower leagues

 

Agree with pretty much all of this. However the bit in bold - this definitely gives relegated teams a massive and unfiar advantage, but the flip side is if you don't have this then promoted teams have no chance of competing in the premier league - they will not be able to employ players on a high enough salary as they will have to effectively work with a championship budget incase they are relegated. Something needs to change, but i'm not sure how you work around that. 

[Midred]

I think the answer to the original question is overwhelmingly YES!

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, havanatopia said:

Parry was supposed to be the tough breath of fresh air. He's just a limp ***** like the rest of them. That meal with Morris in west London was the ultimate stitch up.

I have little doubt that Parry and Morris agreed a plea bargain so to speak.

1. Have a little charade pretending the EFL is being tough that results in a puny fine.

2. Claim EFL lawyers have said there are no grounds for appeal and pretend to be disappointed 

3. Advise Derby how to best finesse their revised accounts.

4. Agree a 6 point penalty say but tell them to appeal in the knowledge it will be cut by half.

5. Issue a statement claiming the EFL has upheld the integrity of the game.

6. Morris picks up the bill for the next slap up meal with Parry.

7. On to next nice little earner.

 

[Hxj]

Apologies, but I simply don't agree with the criticism of the EFL on this. 

The issue always was about FFP and the charges brought in respect of the amortisation were always secondary on the path of did they breach FFP?

If DCFC have not breached FFP then there is no further offence, if they have the charges will run again.

In the meantime, DCFC have an owner who wants to get rid, and no one who wants to buy, plus they are either on a soft embargo (buy players at a wage of less than £600,000 a year), or a hard one (buy no one).  To date no one has come in and a significant part of their squad has left. Currently looking very much like a favourite for relegation.

 

 

[BigTone]

23 hours ago, downendcity said:

Donald Rumsfeld died this week and is famous for this quote:

“........as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know"

Seems to summarise the EFL/Derby situation in  nutshell.

 

I don't know about that truth be known.

Edited July 4, 2021 by BigTone

[havanatopia]

22 hours ago, Hxj said:

Apologies, but I simply don't agree with the criticism of the EFL on this. 

The issue always was about FFP and the charges brought in respect of the amortisation were always secondary on the path of did they breach FFP?

If DCFC have not breached FFP then there is no further offence, if they have the charges will run again.

In the meantime, DCFC have an owner who wants to get rid, and no one who wants to buy, plus they are either on a soft embargo (buy players at a wage of less than £600,000 a year), or a hard one (buy no one).  To date no one has come in and a significant part of their squad has left. Currently looking very much like a favourite for relegation.

 

 

The criticism of the FL is on many subjects and on many levels. In the event you are carte blanche dismissing them all then you will find very few agreeing with you.

On public relations and swiftness of action alone they have been utterly useless. That is enough. 

As a direct result as I said before they bring the rules of the game into disrepute. They are a busted flush and need replacing.

You really don't need to go into the minutae; if you act like there is plenty of time, as they clearly have, you will eventually run out of it and then scratch your heads and blame somebody else which is exactly what they have done. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by havanatopia

[Loco Rojo]

What this says to me is clubs can now knowingly break the rules for £100k but they don't need too worry about points deduction or relegation. Precedence has been set now. 

[AnotherDerbyFan]

33 minutes ago, Loco Rojo said:

What this says to me is clubs can now knowingly break the rules for £100k but they don't need too worry about points deduction or relegation. Precedence has been set now. 

Which rules did we knowingly break?

The final verdict was us unknowingly breaking a couple.

[Never to the dark side]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57714759

[downendcity]

17 minutes ago, Never to the dark side said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57714759

I think its a swing bridge they want to build! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Few assorted thoughts on the last few days...

That statement by Pearce- and he's left the EFL Board, which is a good thing indeed! So too has Howe of Reading, due to his term limit being up- I always assumed it was 3 and not 4 years but anyway.

Unsure he's the main villain of the piece in the Derby case- that would be the Owner IMO. Buck stops at the top, ie the very top.

Odd how this statement by Pearce on behalf of the Club...well it's interesting for a few reasons.

1. Still during the Disciplinary Process- remember Restatement of Accounts is due, and this will have knock on effects to other periods being Rolling.
2. Is an Embargo of some kind still in play? I mean Embargoes alone are not enough in cases such as this, but they're a good starting point. Interesting that a day after a Nixon story about an EFL clampdown on Clubs in terms of Embargoes, with Derby high up that list, he or more likely Mel wants to build bridges??
3. Takeover? Bridge building...to me bridge building is a positive, but not one that should affect in any respect the Disciplinary Process.
4. Claim of extra Profit on Pride Park? Odd timing given this came out in the Written Reasons released on Friday...EFL would be a disgrace if they just rolled over and accepted. It's certainly questionable as to whether it should be included based on Accounting Policies, whether it's in accordance with EFL Regs, Reserves that kinda thing.

Build bridges by all means, but no quarter should be given or allowed on the wider matter in hand- FFP and full enforcement of these Regs, regardless of Ownership of the Club- as in if still ongoing, new owners should inherit the process and the fallout.

Or, if Pride Park returns to Club Ownership at less, perhaps significantly so than £81.1m as part of the Group, the EFL need to raise this one again, albeit from different angles- or just slap on Regulation 16.20, whatever is simpler.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous