Derby County

[BTRFTG]

2 hours ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

Percentage of income lost last season would have been about 50% (£15m). Name another club which lost a higher percentage.

'..last season'...what season that? Could be it's a much lower percentage than most clubs, depending upon which period the ground sale actually fell in, as opposed to what Morris stated.

I thought Derby County FC LTD only filed accounts to the period end June 2018 at Companies House. That the accounts to June 2019 are overdue by 15 months, surely fans must have cottoned-on to what's been happening?

Forget the fiction filed with the EFL, let's see what Morris' latest version of events comes up with.

[Davefevs]

Reading  

[Mr Popodopolous]

Wasn't he involved with Portsmouth? Maybe I'm getting him mixed up with someone else...

I do hope Derby have a bit of a hard landing with this admin, might teach their fans some humility- at least the loud and "we can do no wrong" section. There will surely still be a club, very rare for clubs to go bust outright, because even Bury still technically haven't gone fully, but a hard landing might teach some humility.

As an aside, there seems to be very little talk among DCFC fans about players being sold to fund running costs etc. Unless I'm a couple of days behind the curve.

The talk of £10m in income with season ticket and general sales but I was under the impression that those who kept their cash in the club ie didn't get refunds for 2020/21 get it for free or a small amount for this season- would this be in addition to that? In other words that cash is already accounted for/has already been spent surely.

PPS- I ask, given that they are in administration HOW DO THEY INTEND TO PAY FOR IT!

This post is riddled with inaccuracies...Birmingham were £9.5m maybe over and got a 7 pts for overspend, 3 for increasing losses in successive years and 1 back for cooperation.

He also has no reference to 2019 or beyond...and says they should try and appeal or reduce the admin penalty- good god!! Where to begin...?

Their total club/group wage bill is purportedly only £15-20m, but that disregards all of the other running costs for a fairly decent sized 2nd tier club.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[CheddarReds]

46 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Reading  

They were never going to be far behind!

[slartibartfast]

3 hours ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

Percentage of income lost last season would have been about 50% (£15m). Name another club which lost a higher percentage.

if you've come on here looking for a shoulder to cry on, you're out of luck mate, your club gambled and lost,time to pay the house !

Edited September 21, 2021 by slartibartfast

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

if you've come on here looking for a shoulder to cry on, your out of luck mate, your club gambled and lost,time to pay the house !

Tbh they're a good poster. Don't necessarily agree with their stance but always good to hear the other side.

[The Original OTIB]

4 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

if you've come on here looking for a shoulder to cry on, your out of luck mate, your club gambled and lost,time to pay the house !

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I wonder if NP will be having a wry smile today- he let's not forget was Derby manager in 2016.

He was sacked in 2016, some salacious stories about drones and having to be held back by Mel Morris but he must be feeling a little bit smug surely?

[Mr Popodopolous]

On a lighter note, given the amount of strife he's caused in terms of integrity to the League system through fighting FFP cases...

...If Nick DeMarco's name was on the list of creditors- sure he's too smart for that- but if it was, it would take a heart of stone not to laugh!

[Hxj]

It is being stated that Quantuma have been appointed Administrators by MSD.

Morris no longer has any control over the football club.

As the Stadium companies owed the football club £80 odd million in 2018 I'd expect the Stadium companies to enter administration very soon.

[BTRFTG]

16 minutes ago, Hxj said:

It is being stated that Quantuma have been appointed Administrators by MSD.

Morris no longer has any control over the football club.

As the Stadium companies owed the football club £80 odd million in 2018 I'd expect the Stadium companies to enter administration very soon.

Spot on. And for those who bang on about AG & it's value, it's a Football Stadium. It facilitates income from a football club and, er, not much else. That's why such assets have RLVs much, much lower than folks imagine.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Spot on. And for those who bang on about AG & it's value, it's a Football Stadium. It facilitates income from a football club and, er, not much else. That's why such assets have RLVs much, much lower than folks imagine.

Supposing that one of these modern grounds, not talking here or Pride Park but generally, was repurposed for events in lieu of football though?

Concerts, Trade Shows and much else in between. Add a hotel on site, less football facilities could mean more room for parking etc.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

One thing I did find genuinely surprising and not a positive was that I read Derby going into administration got about 1 minutes worth of coverage on Football Focus.

Irrespective of my (very) strong views on the club, their actions, Mel Morris that's not a healthy sign indicator for modern football.

Historic clubs, any club tbh going into the administration process- well that's a shocker.

Dont get me wrong their mismanagement for a time before Covid had them approaching the edge, Covid maybe tipped them over the edge but clubs and their solvency...serious stuff.

[BTRFTG]

24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Supposing that one of these modern grounds, not talking here or Pride Park but generally, was repurposed for events in lieu of football though?

Concerts, Trade Shows and much else in between. Add a hotel on site, less football facilities could mean more room for parking etc.

If you want to hold concerts, or trade shows, or whatever, build that which is fit for purpose, not a sports stadium. How many events may an uncovered sports stadium hold each year? Not many, they're not designed for set up, logistics et al. Two perhaps 3 large events = peanuts. Contrast  bespoke arena that may flip events daily. That's why at Spurs they designed an innovative 2 sports stadium, it cost a fortune so to do but at least it allows them extra income but that's from an additional sport, not entertainment.

If you inherit a sports stadium and wish to better utilise it, start by knocking it down. There is no repurposing. Look at the nugatory space in concourses, projections et al. At most grounds the acoustics are so crap one can't hear the stadium announcements, let alone host a concert. Latest generation NFL stadiums are designed, under cover, to host other events, outdoor MLB stadia host very little other than baseball.

AG without football or rugby would be a white elephant.

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by BTRFTG

[BTRFTG]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

One thing I did find genuinely surprising and not a positive was that I read Derby going into administration got about 1 minutes worth of coverage on Football Focus.

Irrespective of my (very) strong views on the club, their actions, Mel Morris that's not a healthy sign indicator for modern football.

Historic clubs, any club tbh going into the administration process- well that's a shocker.

Dont get me wrong their mismanagement for a time before Covid had them approaching the edge, Covid maybe tipped them over the edge but clubs and their solvency...serious stuff.

BBC hadn't covered football, let alone sport, in years. Unless it has a race, gender, or disability angle they couldn't give a flying.

MOTD is a pre-packaged highlights joke, presented by woke muppets, with comment by fence-sitting dullards, pandering to the populist masses. Frankly amazed football focus even exists these days.

[zippycar]

43 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

BBC hadn't covered football, let alone sport, in years. Unless it has a race, gender, or disability angle they couldn't give a flying.

MOTD is a pre-packaged highlights joke, presented by woke muppets, with comment by fence-sitting dullards, pandering to the populist masses. Frankly amazed football focus even exists these days.

This  

Only I couldn't have put it so Eloquently

But  not just the BBC. Look at bakeoff on C4 tonight - hardly a cross section of the UK population, but every minority and then some covered.

Edited September 21, 2021 by zippycar

[AnotherDerbyFan]

15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Have you any thoughts though on the owner admitting a P&S breach of 4 points to 2018 under the restated method? 

There's little denial now, HE admitted it in an interview.

Overarching settlement seems the best bet. Otherwise it's into administration, - 12 and the EFL continue with the embargo, the charges and the process which has no timescale on it.

I'd have to listen back, but I thought he said something along the lines of the EFLs version of the restated accounts showed an overspend equating to 4 points?

[AnotherDerbyFan]

14 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

'..last season'...what season that? Could be it's a much lower percentage than most clubs, depending upon which period the ground sale actually fell in, as opposed to what Morris stated.

I thought Derby County FC LTD only filed accounts to the period end June 2018 at Companies House. That the accounts to June 2019 are overdue by 15 months, surely fans must have cottoned-on to what's been happening?

Forget the fiction filed with the EFL, let's see what Morris' latest version of events comes up with.

Erm... last season being 20/21...

[Loosey Boy]

Are Derby going to survive this is the question? 
 

50/50 chance of Liquidation according to some sources!

 

[Port Said Red]

2 hours ago, Loosey Boy said:

Are Derby going to survive this is the question? 
 

50/50 chance of Liquidation according to some sources!

 

In which case someone will pick them up for a nominal amount and the FA will let them continue under a different name like FC Derby. 

[BTRFTG]

3 hours ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

Erm... last season being 20/21...

But you compared to the previous years figures and, er, we don't know what they were as they aren't yet at Companies House.

Hint: neither are the accounts for the year before that! 

Do catch up.

[cityloyal473]

5 hours ago, Loosey Boy said:

Are Derby going to survive this is the question? 
 

50/50 chance of Liquidation according to some sources!

 

I'll be honest I haven't dug into the weeds of Derby's problems, but just read they owe 26 million to HMRC.  That's an extraordinary sum - people should be going to jail for that. Oh, and thats our (the publics) money they owe. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by cityloyal473

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, cityloyal473 said:

I'll be honest I haven't dug into the weeds of Derby's problems, but just read they owe 26 million to HMRC.  That's an extraordinary sum - people should be going to jail for that. Oh, and thats our (the publics) money they owe. 

Yep, I read £30m to HMRC plus £20m to Michael Dell, so best part of £50m before any new owner starts!

[downendcity]

4 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

In which case someone will pick them up for a nominal amount and the FA will let them continue under a different name like FC Derby. 

Wonder if it be Wayne Rooney’s FC Derby?

[Gifford2]

Deducted 12 points.

[Bristol Rob]

Just now, Gifford2 said:

Deducted 12 points.

For now. More probably to follow.

It's a shame these points have been deducted so early in the season where they can really see the benefit of stringing a few wins together.

[Davefevs]

If they need 50 points to avoid relegation, they need 52 from 38 games.  The small squad is quite old in some positions, inexperienced in others, and injuries (if they come) will impact them hugely….let alone fatigue.  Think Baldock is only contracted until January, so doubt an administrator will want to re-sign.

So, I guess they could get those points, although unlikely.  Add another 9 points to the 12 and they need 61 / 38.  Not gonna happen.

[cityloyal473]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

If they need 50 points to avoid relegation, they need 52 from 38 games.  The small squad is quite old in some positions, inexperienced in others, and injuries (if they come) will impact them hugely….let alone fatigue.  Think Baldock is only contracted until January, so doubt an administrator will want to re-sign.

So, I guess they could get those points, although unlikely.  Add another 9 points to the 12 and they need 61 / 38.  Not gonna happen.

If its just the 12 points I'd fancy a wager at the bookies on them staying up.  if its 21 points forget it, they're down and they can start printing 'we're on a league one tour' t-shirts. 

[BTRFTG]

5 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

If its just the 12 points I'd fancy a wager at the bookies on them staying up.  if its 21 points forget it, they're down and they can start printing 'we're on a league one tour' t-shirts. 

I'd hold fire on the printing for now, there's a decent chance they'll be an historical footnote within the next few months.

[supercidered]

Oh no. Deducted 12 points? Bottom of the table? Anyway....

The only things wrong with this is they should be in L1 already anyway and with more points deduction to follow.

Been dodgy as f@ck for years. Mel Morris and his boardroom cronies have been caught out. They made the gamble and it failed. Then tried to cover it up and it failed.

Some have said they feel sorry for the fans. I may have some sympathy for the ones that sees this for what it is i.e. cheating. The others (some of which have been on this forum) are not much better than Morris himself. See you later and good riddance.

 

[BCFCGav]

I'll take 14 points above Derby in September. 

[Simster]

8 hours ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

I'd have to listen back, but I thought he said something along the lines of the EFLs version of the restated accounts showed an overspend equating to 4 points?

Are you lot still blaming Brighton fan Kieran McGuire for the fact that you can't keep your own books in order?  You know, for having the temerity to point out that your club were cheating blatantly?

[1960maaan]

Sometimes nice things pop up on Twitter ....

[REDOXO]

5 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

In which case someone will pick them up for a nominal amount and the FA will let them continue under a different name like FC Derby. 

Yes the 82 events are that. Ask Aldershot Newport et al. 

[ExiledAjax]

49 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If they need 50 points to avoid relegation, they need 52 from 38 games.  The small squad is quite old in some positions, inexperienced in others, and injuries (if they come) will impact them hugely….let alone fatigue.  Think Baldock is only contracted until January, so doubt an administrator will want to re-sign.

So, I guess they could get those points, although unlikely.  Add another 9 points to the 12 and they need 61 / 38.  Not gonna happen.

Prior to the -12 they were on 10 points from 8 games. 1.25 ppg. Keep that up and they would get another 47.5 points from the remaining 38 games (lets be generous and round that up to 48). Sees them finish on 46, and likely relegated. As you say, a further -9 and they're done.

They need to improve their early form if they are to survive. 

[supercidered]

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Prior to the -12 they were on 10 points from 8 games. 1.25 ppg. Keep that up and they would get another 47.5 points from the remaining 38 games (lets be generous and round that up to 48). Sees them finish on 46, and likely relegated. As you say, a further -9 and they're done.

They need to improve their early form if they are to survive. 

Lets just hope whatever points they finish on they get relegated. If they do stay up, the fans will be even more difficult to tolerate than they have been for many a year.

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Lets just hope whatever points they finish on they get relegated. If they do stay up, the fans will be even more difficult to tolerate than they have been for many a year.

Agreed.

Sheff Wed came close to pulling it off last season but couldn't quite do it, same with Wigan the season before. Note as well that Derby themselves survived finishing on only 44 points last season, so 50 is not the be all and end all (a bit like 40 points in the Prem - it all but guarantees safety, but in most years you can survive with fewer points).

In a way it would be a shame if Reading join them down there with their own -12 deduction. Being down there alone almost guarantees relegation but every club that joins them increases the chance that one will survive.

Edited September 22, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[supercidered]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Agreed.

Sheff Wed came close to pulling it off last season but couldn't quite do it. Note as well that Derby themselves survived finishing on only 44 points last season, so 50 is not the be all and end all (a bit like 40 points in the Prem - it all but guarantees safety, but in most years you can survive with fewer points).

In a way it would be a shame if Reading join them down there with their own -12 deduction. Being down there alone almost guarantees relegation but every club that joins them increases the chance that one will survive.

Also agreed.

If Reading end up with the same punishment could they also employ some delaying tactics to carry it over to next season or a time more convenient for them? I know, I'm a cynical old ****t but just wondering.

[REDOXO]

9 hours ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

Erm... last season being 20/21...

 

6 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

But you compared to the previous years figures and, er, we don't know what they were as they aren't yet at Companies House.

Hint: neither are the accounts for the year before that! 

Do catch up.

Exactly!
 

Most Derby County supporters are so confused they don’t know where they are with accounts or anything to do with the current board.
 

Many just want to argue the position of MM, that it’s all the EFL (Bastards) and a cabal of deep state football chairman headed by Lansdown and Gibbo that are directing an operation to wreck Derby from under a pizza parlor in Nottingham. Delusional but as a conspiracy it’s worked before! 
 

Years of this ineptitude, but it’s all everyone else fault, for a good deal it seems on their website. I get denial is a stage of grief but it’s time now. As has been mentioned the corporate veil has been pierced by the action of going into administration. So the laggards will in time actually be shown what’s gone on with the club and grounds etc. 

The issue is, is Derby a big enough name for someone to come in and buy them and how much is the ground worth as the club without ground vice versa are limited value. I hope for the sake of the sane Derby fans a solution can be found that doesn’t lead to Division 4 of The Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire Border League. Watch this space!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Percy said between -6 and -9 for Reading.

9 hours ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

I'd have to listen back, but I thought he said something along the lines of the EFLs version of the restated accounts showed an overspend equating to 4 points?

Restated accounts to 2018 show an overspend equating to 4 points I thought it was.

He didn't mention 2019- ironically your own figures showed a notable improvement after 2019 compared to what it would have been otherwise in terms of the amortisation.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[BanburyRed]

Forest might be having a shit season but much rejoicing down the A52 methinks this eve....

[Mr Popodopolous]

On a side note, saw this on Twitter.

Wonder which exec? They're correct btw.

[One Team]

We are up to 9th and one point off the play offs!

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

3 minutes ago, One Team said:

We are up to 9th and one point off the play offs!

We didn't move anywhere everyone under Birmingham moved up one place

[REDOXO]

3 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

We didn't move anywhere everyone under Birmingham moved up one place

I think he knew that!

[One Team]

12 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

We didn't move anywhere everyone under Birmingham moved up one place

Ah! I thought we were 12th previously! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Still trying to grasp and wangle their way out, some fans still of that mindset...

Erm, I can't see the EFL accepting that!! How do you give away for free as part of a deal, a stadium that a) 'Sold' for £81.1m in 2018 and b) Has a lease of, can't recall but it's either 20-25 years. The annual rent is about £3m too low as well possibly.

Football Creditors had to be paid in full I thought? HMRC less clearcut.

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On a side note, saw this on Twitter.

Wonder which exec? They're correct btw.

I’m not sure the Administrator could afford to terminate his contract, so they are stuck with each other aren’t they?

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Football Creditors had to be paid in full I thought? HMRC less clearcut.

As I understand it HMRC is a preferential creditor so has to be paid in full. Quite right too.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, chinapig said:

As I understand it HMRC is a preferential creditor so has to be paid in full. Quite right too.

I've read varying stuff on that but you might well be right.

I know that football creditors set in stone and MSD too but beyond that...rules did change for HMRC in 2020 IIRC.

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I've read varying stuff on that but you might well be right.

I know that football creditors set in stone and MSD too but beyond that...rules did change for HMRC in 2020 IIRC.

From Kieran Maguire in the Derby Telegraph

"HMRC are now what is now referred to as a 'preferential creditor' which means they would have to be paid in full outstanding taxes which are owed."

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, chinapig said:

From Kieran Maguire in the Derby Telegraph

"HMRC are now what is now referred to as a 'preferential creditor' which means they would have to be paid in full outstanding taxes which are owed."

Thanks, tax though- certainly there wouldn't be any corporation tax as that's only on profits- erm, unused tax losses? PAYE is deducted at source so surely that would be due, trying to think what else there would be in terms of tax or owings to HMRC.

Read elsewhere it's about 2/3.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks, tax though- certainly there wouldn't be any corporation tax as that's only on profits- erm, unused tax losses? PAYE is deducted at source so surely that would be due, trying to think what else there would be in terms of tax or owings to HMRC.

VAT?

[REDOXO]

41 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

We didn't move anywhere everyone under Birmingham moved up one place

 

37 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I think he knew that!

 

27 minutes ago, One Team said:

Ah! I thought we were 12th previously! 

Clearly not!

[Lew-T]

Shame. Only 12 points you say?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just to reiterate what I said earlier though, it's fairly stunning that Derby fans- given the mess their club are in was in no small part due to schemes to try and get round the regs- are suggesting schemes to try to, er, get round the regs would you believe!

Those two I posted are a great example.

2 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Shame. Only 12 points you say?

Oh this is just a segment- there are still outstanding FFP charges/penalties/agreed settlements that have not been resolved.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[REDOXO]

https://www.forestforum.co.uk/threads/44511-The-demise-of-Wayne-Rooney-s-D***y-County-(in-Administration)

This thread on The Florist forum is interesting. Predicting Derby’s demise and trouble between Pearson and Morris in 2016. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

36 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Shame. Only 12 points you say?

It should be a lot more they have been taking the piss for the last 3 years or more. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I notice on Twitter that there are a variety of uninformed fans of PL clubs asking in relation to this "What about the points deduction for PL ESL clubs"?

Now here and in Europe they and the other  got off very lightly, but they're very separate issues, I can't be bothered to pick apart their arguments on here but they really don't have a clue...either in the admin or P&S context.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I’m not sure the Administrator could afford to terminate his contract, so they are stuck with each other aren’t they?

Bit of a blow to Wazza and the players as they all took pay deferrals during covid. Rooney's was quite significant too according to 'The Game' podcast.

[italian dave]

57 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Shame. Only 12 points you say?

Could well be more to come. According to the BBC report, the issue of the stadium sale still hasn’t been finalised, and that could result in further points deductions. 

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Could well be more to come. According to the BBC report, the issue of the stadium sale still hasn’t been finalised, and that could result in further points deductions. 

The other EFL charges haven’t been resolved yet.  The 12 points isn’t the end of it, is it?  Mel’s already admitted they breached FFP in 2018.

[ExiledAjax]

As it's an EFL issue I assume that punishment could potentially continue to be dolled out to Derby even if/when they are in L1? Presumably it isn't confined to the Championship just because that is the division within which they committed their sins.

[Mr Popodopolous]

IIRC, he stated that once accounts restated then there was a £4m/4 point deduction to 2018.

It's possible that he would like to settle on 4 points for the entire saga...I'd hope that option is a no go. The 9 + 3 as an overarching settlement has been speculated on.

I might also add, some Derby fans believe that Mel Morris owes the club for the ground or at least Gellaw Newco 202 or 204 would...that raises questions from an accounting POV as their 2017/18 accounts state that the cash flow that year includes £81.1m, probably the EFL would also be interested from yet another P&S angle.

If it's a transaction still to be paid, then it shouldn't appear in that section surely? Likewise if it's offsetting against debt- if it's offsetting then surely he would owe them nothing?

They can't have it both ways can they.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[BetterRedthanBlue]

So HMRC are a preferential creditor. I would imagine the MSD would probably be one of the main creditors as well. 

Cocu and Keogh will not get as much as they hoped I would imagine. 

Given the debt they have to HMRC and MSD and the fact that the stadium is NOT in the admin package any potential interested parties would surely think twice.

I doubt they'll be able to renew the deals for Davies, Baldock at the lot as they were only agreed short term EFL deals. 

Derby have put themselves in the s**t trying to get around the rules has led them to this situation.

[PhilC]

30 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

As it's an EFL issue I assume that punishment could potentially continue to be dolled out to Derby even if/when they are in L1? Presumably it isn't confined to the Championship just because that is the division within which they committed their sins.

 

That's correct. The only time the EFL can't intervene is if a club get promoted to The Premier League. (You may know that but just using it as an example) The EFL can still dish out punishments if Derby end up in League One (or even League Two!)

 

I assume if a team called something Rovers got relegated out of EFL to non League then again, the EFL wouldn't be able to apply punishments,  but unsure about that one.

[Mr Popodopolous]

49 minutes ago, BetterRedThanBlue said:

So HMRC are a preferential creditor. I would imagine the MSD would probably be one of the main creditors as well. 

Cocu and Keogh will not get as much as they hoped I would imagine. 

Given the debt they have to HMRC and MSD and the fact that the stadium is NOT in the admin package any potential interested parties would surely think twice.

I doubt they'll be able to renew the deals for Davies, Baldock at the lot as they were only agreed short term EFL deals. 

Derby have put themselves in the s**t trying to get around the rules has led them to this situation.

EFL/FA conditions stipulate that Football Creditors must be paid in full. If they are classed as such then...

MSD would be the top creditor, secured debt and creditors are- HMRC are secondary preferential creditors IIRC.

Jagielka and Baldock expire in January, the rest of the signings in the summer.

Yep, last line nails it- wholly self-inflicted.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[chinapig]

21 minutes ago, BetterRedThanBlue said:

So HMRC are a preferential creditor. I would imagine the MSD would probably be one of the main creditors as well. 

Cocu and Keogh will not get as much as they hoped I would imagine. 

Kieran Maguire has said that once Derby come out of administration MSD Holdings will have to be paid in full.

Cocu and Keogh are football creditors so have to be paid in full as I understand it.

[Bristol Rob]

Purely hypothetical but if Derby ceased to exist and all of their results were deleted, how would that impact the league table?

[BTRFTG]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

EFL/FA conditions stipulate that Football Creditors must be paid in full. If they are classed as such then...

MSD would be the top creditor, secured debt and creditors are- HMRC are secondary preferential creditors IIRC.

Jagielka and Baldock expire in January, the rest of the signings in the su,,er.

Yep, last line nails it- wholly self-inflicted.

Worth highlighting that a majority of creditors must agree to any CVA and that could be problematic.

MSD can only get their money back from the ground, so one option might be for them to pick up the tax & footballing debt, force a CVA with non-preferential creditors & buy both club & ground (cheaper than it was initially offered but it's a much diminished product.) On the other hand maybe they've lost interest, or might acquire only as a flip to somebody else, else force the whole shebang into liquidation and get monies back from development options on the ground. Derby fans must be hoping Dell don't want a new production/ storage facility in the UK.