Derby County

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

what happens if this deadline is missed?

I don't know. I assume a new embargo or something but I'd hope it is more serious than that.

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

what happens if this deadline is missed?

The Agreed Decision does not say. EFL's discretion I would assume. Could be anything from an extension to the deadline to a further embargo as Mr Pop says. As I say though, I'm not sure if/when we will find out if they did or didn't make the deadline.

[Mr Popodopolous]

EFL have folded slightly on an issue as per one report.

When clubs are embargoed Derby style, they cannot loan players.

Crystal Palace wanted to buy Plange and loan him back.

Reportedly, £1m fee AND loaned back.

Yet when Birmingham breached FFP in 2018, one possibility was that in January 2019 Adams would be sold and then loaned back to Birmingham- this was not permitted under embargo regs. What's good for one??

[Monkeh]

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

EFL have folded slightly on an issue as per one report.

When clubs are embargoed Derby style, they cannot loan players.

Crystal Palace wanted to buy Plange and loan him back.

Reportedly, £1m fee AND loaned back.

Yet when Birmingham breached FFP in 2018, one possibility was that in January 2019 Adams would be sold and then loaned back to Birmingham- this was not permitted under embargo regs. What's good for one??

doesn't it depend on squad numbers, if derby went below the thresh hold then they could do such a deal?

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

doesn't it depend on squad numbers, if derby went below the thresh hold then they could do such a deal?

Good point, hadn't thought of that. Maybe it fits then- after all Marshall, Jagielka, Shinnie, Baldock have left in January. Williams and some other young or fringe player also.

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Good point, hadn't thought of that. Maybe it fits then- after all Marshall, Jagielka, Shinnie, Baldock have left in January. Williams and some other young or fringe player also.

yea I'm pretty sure thats how Reading got players in under their embargo

[chinapig]

From the BBC:

Crisis club Derby are set for a much-needed £1m windfall for young striker Luke Plange.

Derby have accepted a bid from Crystal Palace for the 19-year-old, who joined the Rams in the summer after being released by Arsenal.

Plange has impressed this term and scored Derby’s first goal in their memorable 2-2 comeback draw against Birmingham yesterday.

However, the deal is attractive because Palace have agreed to loan Plange back to Derby for the remainder of the season.

Although the Championship club are not allowed to register new players due to their current financial position, Football League rules allow Plange to stay on at Derby providing his wage stays the same

[Mr Popodopolous]

My posted chant was a bit tame @lenred 

 Birmingham fans say "Hold my beer!"

Also read that Nottingham Forest fans distributed fake £5 and £10 notes was it from the top tier at the recent game and some Middlesbrough fans may wear Steve Gibson masks when they face off sometime in February.

Football family eh! Minority tbh I expect but little love for them among Championship fans and rightly so.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, chinapig said:

From the BBC:

Crisis club Derby are set for a much-needed £1m windfall for young striker Luke Plange.

Derby have accepted a bid from Crystal Palace for the 19-year-old, who joined the Rams in the summer after being released by Arsenal.

Plange has impressed this term and scored Derby’s first goal in their memorable 2-2 comeback draw against Birmingham yesterday.

However, the deal is attractive because Palace have agreed to loan Plange back to Derby for the remainder of the season.

Although the Championship club are not allowed to register new players due to their current financial position, Football League rules allow Plange to stay on at Derby providing his wage stays the same

Wonder if Championship clubs will have a view on this...the precise nature of the rule would be interesting- also suggests that Crystal Palace are covering his wages or Nixon has suggested it.

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Also read that Nottingham Forest fans distributed fake £5 and £10 notes was it from the top tier at the recent game and some Middlesbrough fans may wear Steve Gibson masks.

We all know that Nige is getting "I am Mr Pop" t-shirts for the team to warm up in when we play them.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

We all know that Nige is getting "I am Mr Pop" t-shirts for the team to warm up in when we play them.

Ah he can have this one- Nige!

He had a terrible time at Derby, sacked after 5 minutes, undermined badly, Matt Lawton said his time under Mel nearly had him give up on football.

I am sure he would love it, just love it were we to win there and relegate them...hope he has us properly fired up for this one.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ah he can have this one- Nige!

He had a terrible time at Derby, sacked after 5 minutes, undermined badly, Matt Lawton said his time under Mel nearly had him give up on football.

I am sure he would love it, just love it were we to win there and relegate them...hope he has us properly fired up for this one.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Here we go- toxic club Derby by the looks, under Mel Morris and Quantuma. Rooney though some credit to him and some credit to their relatively cobbled together squad too.

Quote

Nigel Pearson reportedly fell out with Morris when he discovered that he was using a drone to watch training sessions. A request for an interview with Morris this week did not receive a response. But one source says that Pearson once took a call off Morris asking him why he had not used corner flags when practising corners.

Pearson, The Times understands, was actually less bothered about the drone, more about the meetings that Morris would have with senior players at his house. Richard Keogh, the club captain, would often be summoned, usually after a defeat.

It led to a major fallout with Pearson, even if claims of a physical confrontation appear to lack veracity. A manager who had taken charge with a three-year contract in May 2016 was nevertheless gone less than six months later.

Pearson is a tough individual but he was almost broken by the experience at Derby. It was the closest he has ever come to walking away from football.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk//article/derby-county-the-inside-story-of-how-the-club-reached-brink-of-extinction-hn2mmhzcd

Win it for Nige...hopefully if the stars align, relegate them for Nige!!

Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[lenred]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

My posted chant was a bit tame @lenred 

 Birmingham fans say "Hold my beer!"

Also read that Nottingham Forest fans distributed fake £5 and £10 notes was it from the top tier at the recent game and some Middlesbrough fans may wear Steve Gibson masks when they face off sometime in February.

Football family eh! Minority tbh I expect but little love for them among Championship fans and rightly so.

Haha! Harsh but they are going to get it everywhere now I’d imagine! 

I think DCFC fans are delusional in thinking that every football fan wants them to stay up and get away with not paying their debts. Every comments board I see on social media / newspapers online is full of their fans laying the complete blame on the EFL and most are saying they deserve to stay up and pay however little as they possibly can. They don’t like it when it’s pointed out to them that whilst the vast majority of Championship / EFL fans don’t want to see them go bust, they do want to see them pay their debts in full even if that means them dropping a couple of divisions and working to embargoes / payment plans. 

[AnotherDerbyFan]

3 hours ago, lenred said:

Haha! Harsh but they are going to get it everywhere now I’d imagine! 

I think DCFC fans are delusional in thinking that every football fan wants them to stay up and get away with not paying their debts. Every comments board I see on social media / newspapers online is full of their fans laying the complete blame on the EFL and most are saying they deserve to stay up and pay however little as they possibly can. They don’t like it when it’s pointed out to them that whilst the vast majority of Championship / EFL fans don’t want to see them go bust, they do want to see them pay their debts in full even if that means them dropping a couple of divisions and working to embargoes / payment plans. 

Just out of interest, how much of their debts did these current Championship clubs pay to exit administration?
Middlesbrough
Millwall
Bournemouth (twice)
QPR
Barnsley
Luton
Coventry

What about these non-Championship clubs?
Charlton
Palace (twice)
Portsmouth (thrice)
Leicester
Ipswich
Leeds
Southampton
Bolton
Wigan
 

19 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

EFL have folded slightly on an issue as per one report.

When clubs are embargoed Derby style, they cannot loan players.

Crystal Palace wanted to buy Plange and loan him back.

Reportedly, £1m fee AND loaned back.

Yet when Birmingham breached FFP in 2018, one possibility was that in January 2019 Adams would be sold and then loaned back to Birmingham- this was not permitted under embargo regs. What's good for one??

I completely agree. If the rule exists then no exceptions should be made.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

I completely agree. If the rule exists then no exceptions should be made.

Although a poster on here did mention the minimum squard limit so perhaps it's fine in those circs. If a precise rule is out there online it'd be useful.

On the admin point, that's fair although I think Derby's HMRC debt maybe the biggest. Portsmouth's claim was similar. Pretty sure though that of that list, Middlesbrough under Gibson had to pay a fair chunk.

His history with a combination of the Football League, Premier League and Rick Parry is a reason I expect why he is so militant.

1986- Middlesbrough ie Gibson v Football League. Have read bits that suggested £825k out of £900k and some kind of bond or something of £2.5m. The reports were contradictory but I think they paid the highest or among the highest % of clubs exiting insolvency.

Read bits about it and there is a perception among some of a Middlesbrough persuasion that the Football League as was made a bit of an example of them. No CVAs then but the Football League set a pretty high bar.

1996/97- Middlesbrough docked 3 points which relegated them from the PL. Points deductions for called off games are extremely rare, perhaps it was uniquely bad? Head of the PL? Rick Parry.

2000- Ziege tapping up problem. Compensation to Middlesbrough. CEO of Liverpool who surely took some blame. A certain Rick Parry.

2019- As Gibson gets going on his legal push, who comes in as Head of the Football League. Why- "God! You again!" Rick Parry.

Definitely bad blood and history between Gibson, Parry and the EFL, PL.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[AnotherDerbyFan]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Although a poster on here did mention the minimum squard limit so perhaps it's fine in those circs. If a precise rule is out there online it'd be useful.

Based on which metric? I would refer to the EFL's embargo rules page but it states there that existing players can have their contracts extended during an embargo - clearly not the case with Jagielka.

 

Over 21s - 11, so why couldn't Jagielka extend his deal as well?

At least 3 starts - 18. Isn't the minimum 16?

Established player (over 21 and 5 starts) - 11, again why not Jagielka?

[Hxj]

40 minutes ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

clearly not the case with Jagielka.

Wasn’t he brought in under a special dispensation to cover for a long term injury?  The need for the cover ended, so end of special dispensation.

As for Plange, I personally have no issues, is there an argument that the player, for registration purposes, never leaves Derby until the loan ends?

Edited February 1, 2022 by Hxj

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, AnotherDerbyFan said:

Based on which metric? I would refer to the EFL's embargo rules page but it states there that existing players can have their contracts extended during an embargo - clearly not the case with Jagielka.

 

Over 21s - 11, so why couldn't Jagielka extend his deal as well?

At least 3 starts - 18. Isn't the minimum 16?

Established player (over 21 and 5 starts) - 11, again why not Jagielka?

He got dispensation to cover for a injury, that expired and wasn't renewed as the player was no longer injured

As a Derby fan you should know that,

No amount of crying is going to change the fact you cheated got caught strang it our and now facing your conquences 

Fully justified fully deserved,

Pay the hmrc in full before crying that you are hard done by

[AnotherDerbyFan]

18 hours ago, Monkeh said:

He got dispensation to cover for a injury, that expired and wasn't renewed as the player was no longer injured

As a Derby fan you should know that,

No amount of crying is going to change the fact you cheated got caught strang it our and now facing your conquences 

Fully justified fully deserved,

Pay the hmrc in full before crying that you are hard done by

Crying? Read back and you'll see that I agreed with Mr Pop that we shouldn't have been able to 'keep' Plange based on the fact we couldn't keep Jagielka.

Special dispensation was granted because it took us above the allowable squad size limit - Jagielka and Baldock taking us to 25. Baldock's contract wasn't renewed, and Marshall join QPR on a free. Extending Jagielka's contract should have been allowed as the squad size was kept to 23 and he would have been on the same wage as before (within the terms agreed with the EFL).

Someone suggested Plange staying may have been allowed due to going below a squad size of 16, which doesn't appear to be the case.

[REDOXO]

And the conspiracy goes on. FFS 

 

 

[Monkeh]

20 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

And the conspiracy goes on. FFS 

 

 

When they pay the hmrc in full then I will give a **** about the cheats

[Midred]

Stearman off after 3 minutes!

[Hxj]

Not a good day at the office for Derby.  Not only losing at Huddersfield, but Stearman's red card dents the defence significantly against Hull, Middlesbrough (oh the irony!) and Peterborough.

Cardiff after their win today are on 29 points from 28 games, on that basis they are aiming at 47 points at the end of the season, they are moving away from the relegation fight.

Derby are on a gross 36 points from 29 games, net 15 points.  On that basis they are aiming at 58 points gross and 37 points net at the end of the season.

Reading are on 28 points gross from 28 games, net 22 points.  On that basis they are aiming at 46 points gross and 40 points net at the end of the season.

Based on the performances to date Derby need 25 points from 17 games to stay up, back to Notts Forest performance (oh the irony!).

[Mr Popodopolous]

Thought about it and tbh loaning Plange back seems okay because Birmingham when embargoed in that Adams scenario in 2019 were probably at the squad limit. Derby however are not so it feels like one of the less controversial moves.

Regarding Jagielka, I assume it was twofold. Firstly as the financial situation seemed to reach panic and crisis mode what with the 1st February- well now 1st March- deadline.

Allowed to renew if otherwise financially stable in administration, but there seemed to be concern over proof of funds etc.

Secondly, Jagielka and Baldock were only permitted until mid January or thereabouts owing to long term injuries to Bielik and Kazim-Richards. Obviously the return of the latter arguably negated Baldock, Bielik well he is back now but wasn't then.

Plus I note that Rooney has criticised other clubs for taking advantage. I would argue that while it maybe true he is possibly playing a game, siege mentality- us v the world but that would be well set.

In fact, thin though the squad now is I would say it has been a window that could have been worse.

Byrne, Ebosele, Buchanan, Bird, Knight, Bielik, Sibley, Lawrence, Jozwiak, indirectly via a loan return Plange all remain on the books.

Does Stretton have promise too?

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thought about it and tbh loaning Plange back seems okay because Birmingham when embargoed in that Adams scenario in 2019 were probably at the squad limit. Derby however are not so it feels like one of the less controversial moves.

Regarding Jagielka, I assume it was twofold. Firstly as the financial situation seemed to reach panic and crisis mode what with the 1st February- well now 1st March- deadline.

Allowed to renew if otherwise financially stable in administration, but there seemed to be concern over proof of funds etc.

Secondly, Jagielka and Baldock were only permitted until mid January or thereabouts owing to long term injuries to Bielik and Kazim-Richards. Obviously the return of the latter arguably negated Baldock, Bielik well he is back now but wasn't then.

Plus I note that Rooney has criticised other clubs for taking advantage. I would argue that while it maybe true he is possibly playing a game, siege mentality- us v the world but that would be well set.

In fact, thin though the squad now is I would say it has been a window that could have been worse.

Byrne, Ebosele, Buchanan, Bird, Knight, Bielik, Sibley, Lawrence, Jozwiak, indirectly via a loan return Plange all remain on the books.

Does Stretton have promise too?

Yes. Mr Rooney is playing that exact card. Bless him. I would do the same. It plays well. If I were the clubs that shelled out money to keep this express train to Armageddon going for another month I wouldn’t forget that the granny shagger made them look bad publicly despite a loan back to the club by one of them!
 

Supply and demand economics is a bastard when you need the money, but there it is. The only problem is the **** wits will keep harping on about what a conspiracy it is! 
 

 

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Yes. Mr Rooney is playing that exact card. Bless him. I would do the same. It plays well. If I were the clubs that shelled out money to keep this express train to Armageddon going for another month I wouldn’t forget that the granny shagger made them look bad publicly despite a loan back to the club by one of them!
 

Supply and demand economics is a bastard when you need the money, but there it is. The only problem is the **** wits will keep harping on about what a conspiracy it is! 
 

 

Rooney “I think clubs are taking advantage of our situation”.

In fairness he’s handled himself well, but unfortunately they started it, they took advantage if other clubs by cheating.  It’s come home to roost.

Seems to be a feeling they can raise enough to get them through the season, get relegated, start on minus 15 in Lg1 and ignore Boro and WW. At some point before next season they are going to have to address this.

[sh1t_ref_again]

10 hours ago, Hxj said:

Not a good day at the office for Derby.  Not only losing at Huddersfield, but Stearman's red card dents the defence significantly against Hull, Middlesbrough (oh the irony!) and Peterborough.

Cardiff after their win today are on 29 points from 28 games, on that basis they are aiming at 47 points at the end of the season, they are moving away from the relegation fight.

Derby are on a gross 36 points from 29 games, net 15 points.  On that basis they are aiming at 58 points gross and 37 points net at the end of the season.

Reading are on 28 points gross from 28 games, net 22 points.  On that basis they are aiming at 46 points gross and 40 points net at the end of the season.

Based on the performances to date Derby need 25 points from 17 games to stay up, back to Notts Forest performance (oh the irony!).

As much as I hate cardiff and would love them to go down, if they went down at the expense of Derby staying up then it would have a real sour taste as justice would not seemed to have been done.

I want Derby to survive, but have a few seasons of real struggle in L1 or below, to make up for how they tried to cheat the system and other clubs in this division 

[Monkeh]

28 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

As much as I hate cardiff and would love them to go down, if they went down at the expense of Derby staying up then it would have a real sour taste as justice would not seemed to have been done.

I want Derby to survive, but have a few seasons of real struggle in L1 or below, to make up for how they tried to cheat the system and other clubs in this division 

Not me, I detest Cardiff but I would rather them stay up,

We would still have the severnside Derby

And dcfc deserve to be relegated for cheating

Cardiff are many things but they haven't cheated, 

[sh1t_ref_again]

23 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Not me, I detest Cardiff but I would rather them stay up,

We would still have the severnside Derby

And dcfc deserve to be relegated for cheating

Cardiff are many things but they haven't cheated, 

Think you have mis-read what I was saying, I want Derby to go down even at the expense of cardiff staying up, we are saying the same

[slartibartfast]

Of course , last night Cardiff were playing their joker............BARNSLEY !

[cityfan1958]

15 hours ago, Monkeh said:

When they pay the hmrc in full then I will give a **** about the cheats

This

[Mr Popodopolous]

On the actual football front, barring a) Any clubs sliding into administration between now and May or b) Clubs falling foul of FFP between now and the end of the season with deductions applied this season, I genuinely believe it to be 3 from 4.

Clearly things can still happen on the pitch too but Cardiff now 14 above with a game in hand look like they're edging away- albeit Derby still have to play them twice.

Perhaps Swansea will be a side to drop into the mire although nobody has yet seriously spoken about them in terms of relegation.

Although they are 17 points ahead of Derby with a game in hand in them, maybe 2 can't quite recall.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Off the pitch, an interesting story.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60243825

Seems that the Binnies being willing to take the Arbitration claims on may not have been as planned.

It's claimed to be a possible impediment in any event.

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Yes. Mr Rooney is playing that exact card. Bless him. I would do the same. It plays well. If I were the clubs that shelled out money to keep this express train to Armageddon going for another month I wouldn’t forget that the granny shagger made them look bad publicly despite a loan back to the club by one of them!
 

Supply and demand economics is a bastard when you need the money, but there it is. The only problem is the **** wits will keep harping on about what a conspiracy it is! 
 

 

 

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Rooney “I think clubs are taking advantage of our situation”.

In fairness he’s handled himself well, but unfortunately they started it, they took advantage if other clubs by cheating.  It’s come home to roost.

Seems to be a feeling they can raise enough to get them through the season, get relegated, start on minus 15 in Lg1 and ignore Boro and WW. At some point before next season they are going to have to address this.

Agreed on both counts. Rooney has generally handled things well but at the same time yes they did start the issue via cheating.

Moreover though, it's par for the course in administration and I reiterate some the players that they have kept given the situation is quite notable.

The bit that Rooney did of course forget to add, was that Marshall and Byrne- where and when? Wigan, in their great yard sale of Summer 2020!!

What a yard sale it was too.

Marshall, Byrne, Dunkley, Kipre, Robinson, Williams, Morsy, Jacobs, Windass, Lowe, Moore

Sure there were more as well plus young players pushing through such as Geldhart.

Jacobs for Naismith as the latter having just checked stayed until January 2021.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

IMO famed insolvency practitioner and part-time football manager Wayne Rooney is getting far too much credit in this situation. The bloke is in a win-win situation. All he has to do is keep coming out and pandering to the fans and players. Say the right things, that people want to hear, and he'll be showered with credit either way. Even if they start losing he'll be given more rope than any manager ever has been.

Keep them up and he'll be seen as the Herakles of Derby as he successfully accomplishes the impossible task.

If they go down, ah well, the odds were against him, the evil EFL wanted him to fail, and it was an impossible task to keep them up. Off he goes to Everton to take over from the failed Lampard, and he goes with everyone's blessing, leaving Rosenior to pick up the pieces in League 1.

All of this whilst knowing that should Derby go bust he is a Football Creditor and so all wages owed to him are covered as much as is possible in any insolvency and if they come out of Admin then he gets paid in full by any buyer.

Cushiest job in the league right now.

[chinapig]

37 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Off the pitch, an interesting story.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60243825

Seems that the Binnies being willing to take the Arbitration claims on may not have been as planned.

It's claimed to be a possible impediment in any event.

In the case of the Binnies, they would say that wouldn't they? Trying to force a deal

As for Rooney, where does he think the money is going? It's towards funding the club in administration, where else? Does he not know the monthly cost of running the club? And shouldn't he ask the Administrators about that and proof of funding not the media?

Edited February 3, 2022 by chinapig

[REDOXO]

15 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

IMO famed insolvency practitioner and part-time football manager Wayne Rooney is getting far too much credit in this situation. The bloke is in a win-win situation. All he has to do is keep coming out and pandering to the fans and players. Say the right things, that people want to hear, and he'll be showered with credit either way. Even if they start losing he'll be given more rope than any manager ever has been.

Keep them up and he'll be seen as the Herakles of Derby as he successfully accomplishes the impossible task.

If they go down, ah well, the odds were against him, the evil EFL wanted him to fail, and it was an impossible task to keep them up. Off he goes to Everton to take over from the failed Lampard, and he goes with everyone's blessing, leaving Rosenior to pick up the pieces in League 1.

All of this whilst knowing that should Derby go bust he is a Football Creditor and so all wages owed to him are covered as much as is possible in any insolvency and if they come out of Admin then he gets paid in full by any buyer.

Cushiest job in the league right now.

Of course you are, so to speak, ‘spot on’ with your assessment. He has the best managers job in football right now, he simply can not lose personally, short of getting caught in a house of Ill repute with a septuagenerian! Not like that might happen.  

11 minutes ago, chinapig said:

In the case of the Binnies, they would say that wouldn't they? Trying to force a deal

As for Rooney, where does he think the money is going? It's towards funding the club in administration, where else? Does he not know the monthly cost of running the club? And shouldn't he ask the Administrators about that and proof of funding not the media?

Yes. I was shocked when I read that Rooney was asking where the money was going. The disconnect between some football players and how they are actually getting paid/anyone is getting paid is horrifying!

Edited February 3, 2022 by REDOXO

[ExiledAjax]

9 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Yes. I was shocked when I read that Rooney was asking where the money was going. The disconnect between some football players and how they are actually getting paid/anyone is getting paid is horrifying!

Especially when only a few weeks ago he was telling people about imminent preferred bidder nominations, and generally speaking as though he was talking to Quantuma every day.

I'll be honest I had my suspicions then that perhaps he wasn't a fully trained insolvency expert...seems that might be true. Shocking.

[Sleepy1968]

25 minutes ago, chinapig said:

In the case of the Binnies, they would say that wouldn't they? Trying to force a deal

As for Rooney, where does he think the money is going? It's towards funding the club in administration, where else? Does he not know the monthly cost of running the club? And shouldn't he ask the Administrators about that and proof of funding not the media?

I expect half the monthly cost is his wages

[phantom]

THE EFL JUST RELEASED THIS STATEMENT

The EFL Board met today and received an update in respect of Derby County FC.

 

Over the last few weeks, the EFL has engaged proactively with the Club’s Administrators and other key stakeholders including the local authority, MPs and the Rams Trust as we seek to assist the Club in its efforts to exit from administration in accordance with the requirements of the League’s Insolvency Policy.  

The EFL’s Insolvency Policy is designed to offer guidance to Clubs on how the board might seek to deal with any Club in administration. That policy, which has been accepted by all 72 Clubs, describes how the Members agreed ‘that the starting point is that no Club should gain (or seek to gain) any advantage within the context of professional football over other Clubs by not paying all its creditors in full at all times.’ 

In this case, Derby County is seeking to use insolvency legislation to avoid having to defend the claims of Middlesbrough FC (which commenced initially in January 2021) and Wycombe Wanderers FC. Derby County considers those claims should not be treated as football related debts and that it would be wrong for the EFL to require the Club to have to continue to defend the claims as a condition of continuing membership in circumstances where they have been compromised by way of a restructuring plan. The EFL does not agree with that analysis.

At the request of the Administrators, and in line with commitments given at last week’s meeting with local politicians, the EFL has provided a further clear statement to Quantuma of its position on the application of the Insolvency Policy, so as to enable them to apply to the High Court or engage in Arbitration to have that issue determined. It is now for the Administrators to determine how they wish to move this matter forward and we remain willing to expedite any process, as necessary.   

The fact remains that the Club is suffering from critical legacy debt issues that reach into tens of millions, all of which need to be resolved if a solution is to be found. That also includes monies owed to HMRC and the loans from MSD secured against Club assets and the Stadium. 

The EFL has previously requested mediation between the two Clubs and the Administrators and is today inviting all relevant and associated parties involved to enter formal collaborative negotiations to actively seek out the compromises and solutions required to ensure that Derby County has a long-term future. 

For the avoidance of any doubt the EFL is requesting the attendance of Administrators and the following stakeholders to participate: the current highest bidder(s), Middlesbrough FC, Wycombe Wanderers FC, Mel Morris, MSD Partners and HMRC. 

The EFL will endeavour to provide updates on any progress achieved as a result of this request and any subsequent discussions in due course, whilst also continuing to maintain our commitment to transparency in our dealings with the politicians and local authority officials that make up ‘Team Derby’ alongside direct engagement with Derby County Supporters’ groups and the FSA.

[ExiledAjax]

16 minutes ago, phantom said:

THE EFL JUST RELEASED THIS STATEMENT

The EFL Board met today and received an update in respect of Derby County FC.

 

Over the last few weeks, the EFL has engaged proactively with the Club’s Administrators and other key stakeholders including the local authority, MPs and the Rams Trust as we seek to assist the Club in its efforts to exit from administration in accordance with the requirements of the League’s Insolvency Policy.  

The EFL’s Insolvency Policy is designed to offer guidance to Clubs on how the board might seek to deal with any Club in administration. That policy, which has been accepted by all 72 Clubs, describes how the Members agreed ‘that the starting point is that no Club should gain (or seek to gain) any advantage within the context of professional football over other Clubs by not paying all its creditors in full at all times.’ 

In this case, Derby County is seeking to use insolvency legislation to avoid having to defend the claims of Middlesbrough FC (which commenced initially in January 2021) and Wycombe Wanderers FC. Derby County considers those claims should not be treated as football related debts and that it would be wrong for the EFL to require the Club to have to continue to defend the claims as a condition of continuing membership in circumstances where they have been compromised by way of a restructuring plan. The EFL does not agree with that analysis.

At the request of the Administrators, and in line with commitments given at last week’s meeting with local politicians, the EFL has provided a further clear statement to Quantuma of its position on the application of the Insolvency Policy, so as to enable them to apply to the High Court or engage in Arbitration to have that issue determined. It is now for the Administrators to determine how they wish to move this matter forward and we remain willing to expedite any process, as necessary.   

The fact remains that the Club is suffering from critical legacy debt issues that reach into tens of millions, all of which need to be resolved if a solution is to be found. That also includes monies owed to HMRC and the loans from MSD secured against Club assets and the Stadium. 

The EFL has previously requested mediation between the two Clubs and the Administrators and is today inviting all relevant and associated parties involved to enter formal collaborative negotiations to actively seek out the compromises and solutions required to ensure that Derby County has a long-term future. 

For the avoidance of any doubt the EFL is requesting the attendance of Administrators and the following stakeholders to participate: the current highest bidder(s), Middlesbrough FC, Wycombe Wanderers FC, Mel Morris, MSD Partners and HMRC. 

The EFL will endeavour to provide updates on any progress achieved as a result of this request and any subsequent discussions in due course, whilst also continuing to maintain our commitment to transparency in our dealings with the politicians and local authority officials that make up ‘Team Derby’ alongside direct engagement with Derby County Supporters’ groups and the FSA.

All very good.

Seen Derby fans still harking on about the EFL trying to 'trump' insolvency law with it's own insolvency policy. Which they absolutely aren't trying to do. Derby County Football Club Limited can exit administration in the normal way. It just cannot do that and simultaneously retain it's share in the English Football League Limited, and so cannot continue to participate in the EFL competition.

So, due to the industry within which it operates, Derby County Football Club Limited has to comply with both normal, statutory insolvency laws, plus the EFL's own insolvency policy.

It's not a case of 'trumping' any laws, more like a second layer of rules that apply to EFL clubs.

I have to say, if it did got the High Court it would be a bloody interesting test of the rules and regulations. The judgment would be fascinating whichever way the Court ruled.

[REDOXO]

51 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

All very good.

Seen Derby fans still harking on about the EFL trying to 'trump' insolvency law with it's own insolvency policy. Which they absolutely aren't trying to do. Derby County Football Club Limited can exit administration in the normal way. It just cannot do that and simultaneously retain it's share in the English Football League Limited, and so cannot continue to participate in the EFL competition.

So, due to the industry within which it operates, Derby County Football Club Limited has to comply with both normal, statutory insolvency laws, plus the EFL's own insolvency policy.

It's not a case of 'trumping' any laws, more like a second layer of rules that apply to EFL clubs.

I have to say, if it did got the High Court it would be a bloody interesting test of the rules and regulations. The judgment would be fascinating whichever way the Court ruled.

Yes it would. 
 

I would suggest that the High Court will not interfere in EFL/club agreements in favor of Derby. Can you imagine the mayhem that could ensue? 
 

It will mean Derby will have to find another league to play in mind you. 

[Hxj]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

I have to say, if it did got the High Court it would be a bloody interesting test of the rules and regulations. The judgment would be fascinating whichever way the Court ruled.

I can't wait to see it.

So the position on dcfcfans seems to be:

"How dare the EFL say that their rules are more important than the insolvency legislation when it comes to the Middlesbrough and Wycombe claims".

I've no problem with that.

All the 'Football Creditors' are unsecured.  Therefore in order to apply the insolvency legislation correctly all debts must be paid in full to ensure that all 'Football Creditors' are paid in full otherwise Derby will lose their EFL membership.

A classic case of not thinking about the consequences of your arguments.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Hxj

[Bristol Rob]

 

 

[ExiledAjax]

Well **** me. One of them gets it.

Get this man a medal.

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

I have to say, if it did got the High Court it would be a bloody interesting test of the rules and regulations. The judgment would be fascinating whichever way the Court ruled.

The courts really don't like getting involved in the internal affairs of sporting bodies so I wouldn't hold out too much hope.

Still, the High Court might find that the EFL regulations do not apply to Derby County on the novel legal grounds that Brian Clough used to be their manager perhaps.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, chinapig said:

The courts really don't like getting involved in the internal affairs of sporting bodies so I wouldn't hold out too much hope.

Still, the High Court might find that the EFL regulations do not apply to Derby County on the novel legal grounds that Brian Clough used to be their manager perhaps.

I for one, cannot wait to see Rooney in his silks and wig.

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Well **** me. One of them gets it.

Get this man a medal.

I assume they have been banned from the forum by now.

[BTRFTG]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

I for one, cannot wait to see Rooney in his silks and wig.

In which case: If the aged Judge is of the Distaff persuasion I trust Wayne will be behind a thick, perspex screen.....

[Monkeh]

I take that statement as the efl running out of patience with derby their slurs and the administrators 

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Well **** me. One of them gets it.

Get this man a medal.

Yes someone should, however it still overlooks Derby County agreed to the rules as part of membership to the EFL. Thus it’s a stretch to think they will get much change from the High Court. 
 

However if they do perhaps someone should think about a proper UK constitution with a clause that says private member clubs may not have membership rules that have a higher standard of UK bankruptcy rules than HMRC. Cram down attempts not withstanding! :laugh:!

I do attend to agree with the chap up the thread. The EFL have had enough. Kill or Cure time and most football supporters outside of Derbyshire don’t care anymore. 

[Yellow&Blue&Red]

Who would even take the EFL to court? I don't understand what people mean about this going to court. Even if there was a case, and there blatantly isn't, who would sue the EFL? Mel Morris is out of it. New buyers won't. Administrators can't/wouldn't.

Am I missing or misunderstanding something?

[Monkeh]

5 minutes ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

Who would even take the EFL to court? I don't understand what people mean about this going to court. Even if there was a case, and there blatantly isn't, who would sue the EFL? Mel Morris is out of it. New buyers won't. Administrators can't/wouldn't.

Am I missing or misunderstanding something?

And sue them for what? Enforcing the rules of a private members club that in effect is what the football league is,

and if derby did take it to court, it would open up legal action from every club who entered admin and left using said rules which in turn would prob bankrupt and fold the league structure

[semblar]

Isn't there something in EFL rules about using arbitration as a condition of membership?

[REDOXO]

32 minutes ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

Who would even take the EFL to court? I don't understand what people mean about this going to court. Even if there was a case, and there blatantly isn't, who would sue the EFL? Mel Morris is out of it. New buyers won't. Administrators can't/wouldn't.

Am I missing or misunderstanding something?

There are multiple facets to this now. But it seems that Derby supporters think there could be a case for the High Court to ponder over the league enforcing their rules that Derby signed up to because they place a higher standard on DCFC to maintain their place in the EFL than the cram down they really want to stay in existence.

(So to answer your question directly Quantuma, who are the administrators of the club would have to do it, further getting paid for taking Derby fans up yet another blind alley)
 

Even getting in to the HC on any sort of useful timeframe would be a feat of in itself. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by REDOXO

[Hxj]

 

37 minutes ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

Who would even take the EFL to court? I don't understand what people mean about this going to court.

30 minutes ago, semblar said:

Isn't there something in EFL rules about using arbitration as a condition of membership?

There is a lot of confusion about the issues.

The short version is: 

"FFS Quantuma - do something!"

Or slightly longer:

"Either do the EFL arbitration process as required in the regulations, or make an application to the High Court to do a reconstruction aka cross class cram down,"

Edited February 3, 2022 by Hxj

[Ska Junkie]

Hang on, are we saying Derby are now disputing a set of rules they, themselves, signed up to?

I can't see that ending well for them, with all possible respect.

The first bit about 'gaining an advantage' is interesting too, as that's pretty much / exactly what they (Derby) were doing isn't it?

Edited February 3, 2022 by Ska Junkie

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Ska Junkie said:

Hang on, are we saying Derby are now disputing a set of rules they, themselves, signed up to?

I can't see that ending well for them, with all possible respect.

The first bit about 'gaining an advantage' is interesting too, as that's pretty much / exactly what they (Derby) were doing isn't it?

 

[Davefevs]

I can’t see them resolving this.  Think they’re gonna be liquidated.

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I can’t see them resolving this.  Think they’re gonna be liquidated.

Every day I think this is more likely. 
 

Derby County/Morris/Quantuma have challenged the EFL who most would say haven’t done a great deal wrong. Morris flouted the rules of the league roared on by Derby fans, while building a hopeless amount of debt and buying the stadium. 
 

Gibson and to be fair Lansdown spoke publicly about it a while back. Gibson went after Morris, Couhig is doing what he is bound to fo under his fiduciary duty and Quantuma get paid for misleading people that bought their and Morris bullshit!

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

In which case: If the aged Judge is of the Distaff persuasion I trust Wayne will be behind a thick, perspex screen.....

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by PHILINFRANCE

[chinapig]

16 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Hang on, are we saying Derby are now disputing a set of rules they, themselves, signed up to?

So it seems, though the argument their fans are making is still essentially that they are special so the rules don't apply to them. Coincidentally an argument being used in political circles.

Come to think of it Sue Gray is at a loose end at the moment, perhaps she could arbitrate?

[Monkeh]

The longer this has gone on the more I'm convinced quantuma don't want to resolve this,

They are point fingers at everyone lying to the fans and Rooney as well as getting deluded fans to get their pitchforks out to burn down the efl 

This administrator just want money, the longer it goes on the more money they earn

What the Derby fans should be asking is how much has quantuma been earning out of this?

 

And yes davefevs I came to that conclusion at Xmas and posted it a few weeks back,

I see nothing but Derby being liquidated as the outcome

[REDOXO]

8 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Maybe  a few of the potential investors are preferring liquidation and then start from ground zero . They may start in non league , not sure where though . But they would rapidly rise back up . 

 Many many many pages ago I did mention this in conversation. Club worth nothing ground worth dirt. If I were a purchaser it would be the thing of story books and not out of the question. 
 

But who would take a new Derby. My mates are Aldershot fans and I went to places like Witney, Basingstoke and Wokingham with between 1500 and 4000. Can you imagine Derby County in the West Botinghamshire division three. 
 

The lowest even a reformed club could go is Conference North just because of logistics. 

[Ska Junkie]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I can’t see them resolving this.  Think they’re gonna be liquidated.

I'm inclined to agree, the latest moves seem those of desperation.

Big club, yes but certainly  not 'special' enough to flout rules they had already signed up to and agreed, while 'seeking an advantage' by doing it.

I get the impression they're done, sadly. 

They knew the rules I guess.

[Ska Junkie]

40 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

 Many many many pages ago I did mention this in conversation. Club worth nothing ground worth dirt. If I were a purchaser it would be the thing of story books and not out of the question. 
 

But who would take a new Derby. My mates are Aldershot fans and I went to places like Witney, Basingstoke and Wokingham with between 1500 and 4000. Can you imagine Derby County in the West Botinghamshire division three. 
 

The lowest even a reformed club could go is Conference North just because of logistics. 

Where did Wimbledon restart and Bury for that matter? The Combined counties premier league (tier 9), in Wimbledons case. North West counties division 1 in Burys (tier 10). The comparison for Derby is the Midlands football league division 1 or the united counties league, division 1, both tier 10.

Each league has a Premier division which is clearly tier 9.

Long, long way back.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Ska Junkie

[Yellow&Blue&Red]

6 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

Where did Wimbledon restart...? The Combined counties premier league (tier 9).

Long, long way back.

It was fun though. Derby fans will enjoy it. If they buy it and do it themselves, they'll never get mistreated again.

[Sir Geoff]

8 hours ago, Hxj said:

 

There is a lot of confusion about the issues.

The short version is: 

"FFS Quantuma - do something!"

Or slightly longer:

"Either do the EFL arbitration process as required in the regulations, or make an application to the High Court to do a reconstruction aka cross class cram down,"

Steve Gibson has been seeking arbitration with Quantuma since they were appointed and even before that with MM. Apparently Gibson has heard nothing from Quantuma since his approach to them back at the beginning (September ?). This is ALL on them.

[HitchinRed]

I’m guessing there’s are plenty of other smaller creditors that are owed money in addition to the big boys named in the proposed arbitration. 

It does seem inherently unfair that the likes of Middlesbrough get preferential treatment over the 1 man band from down the road that may have sorted out the club’s electrics problems, for example.

I’m not saying that the EFL’s approach is illegal or looking to override Insolvency Law. They are simply saying to the Administrator to pay the football creditors first or get banned from the league. If this were the case, it would seriously devalue the club and reduce the amount that any new purchasers would pay for the club - reducing the pay out for all creditors.

The problem is that there is a limit to the amount that the new purchasers will want to put into the club, and if all this goes to the Football Creditors, they’ll be little left for anyone else. In this case, there is little reason for these creditors to agree to such an arrangement - they might be better off pushing the club into insolvency.

In my opinion, it’s not in anyone’s best interest to drive the club into insolvency, and therefore everyone will come to an agreement sooner or later. At the moment it’s just a poker game with everyone trying to bluff each other in order to secure a bigger payout for themselves.