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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Angela Bassett Reaction GIF by The Meredith Vieira Show

And so we wait until the now traditional Friday exchange of statements that amount to: "we're still worried" from BAWT, "don't worry, we're still working on it" from Quantuma, and a "I reckon everything is going to be fine but honestly if we could please have 4 penalties in tomorrow's match that would be great" from Sir Wayne Rooney, Freeman of Derby, Licensed Insolvency Practitioner, Manager of the Season, and Anointed Lord of Pride Park.

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Hxj

Hxj

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Talk of both bids and expressions of interest.

If you are a cynic like me, and read it a certain way, the grammar works with one bid and one expression of interest ....

Looking like League 1 with a 15 point deduction next season.

Edited by Hxj
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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Hxj said:

If you are a cynic like me, and read it a certain way, the grammar works with one bid and one expression of interest ....

Looking like League 1 with a 15 point deduction next season.

As in one of each is sufficient to justify the use of the word 'multiple'? I agree the structure of that sentence permits that interpretation, but I'll take the cynicism a step further and suggest that given the grammatical standard of the rest of the statement you're giving the author too much credit. My view is that this statement has been written by a person who doesn't practice writing very much, and they've used the phrase "bids and expressions of interests" without really thinking about what those words mean.

It's as though someone typed this out in Notes during their taxi ride to the station. Proof read it once whilst having a beer in 'spoons, and then fired it off into the ether.

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Eddie Hitler

Eddie Hitler

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's as though someone typed this out in Notes during their taxi ride to the station. Proof read it once whilst having a beer in 'spoons, and then fired it off into the ether.

 

Maybe Mike Ashley's interested again.

 

Sportswear tycoon Mike Ashley once hosted a management meeting in a pub where he drank 12 pints and vomited into a fireplace, a court has heard. The Newcastle United owner is being sued by finance expert Jeffrey Blue at London's High Court.3 Jul 2017

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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Maybe Mike Ashley's interested again.

Sportswear tycoon Mike Ashley once hosted a management meeting in a pub where he drank 12 pints and vomited into a fireplace, a court has heard. The Newcastle United owner is being sued by finance expert Jeffrey Blue at London's High Court.3 Jul 2017

If I was dealing with Q and Mel Morris then I think I'd be necking 12 pints during meetings as well.

Edited by ExiledAjax
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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hxj said:

And the latest - 'believe' 'end of week' sounds familiar!

A statement from Team Derby says Quantuma “believe” they’ll be in a position to name a preferred bidder by the end of the week. “Quantuma confirmed there are multiple bids and expressions of interest, and are now in the final stages of clarification”

Image

Sounds to me a long winded version of "the cheque's in the post"!

 

 

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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

With the level of debts AND owning the ground, the club is worthless. But without the ground... It makes no sense to pay for the club. The only person to solve this is Morris. He should pay his HMRC debt, pay off MSD and then try and sell the club with the ground. Then it could be viable as a L1 club. Cannot see HMRC letting this one roll easily, they will know what Morris is worth, and the Admin fee. and the MSD loan and who that eventually helps by being repaid. Nothing to do with FFP this, it is Morris spent money he had no intention of repaying. Looks worse by the day , but the cause of everything has not changed since day 1. Feel sorry for the fans.

Chelsea £3 Billion - Derby a bag of crisps. Crazy football world. 

Derby a bag of crisps but without the little blue bag of salt ( for fans of a certain age!)

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

Nothing to do with FFP this, it is Morris spent money he had no intention of repaying. Looks worse by the day , but the cause of everything has not changed since day 1. Feel sorry for the fans.

Largely agree with your post, quoted and quoted bits alike although while the cause of their woes is growing more clear by the day and the ones on here seem decent, and we have has some good debate with them, it is also worth pointing out just how popular the Mel Morris way was..and it was- until it wasn't!

Not all of course, it could be a large outsized minority distorting things but quite a lot didn't just say "Haha, isn't Mel clever" but they actively lauded some of these methods, trying to ignore or disregard the FFP issues down the track.

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REDOXO

REDOXO

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Largely agree with your post, quoted and quoted bits alike although while the cause of their woes is growing more clear by the day and the ones on here seem decent, and we have has some good debate with them, it is also worth pointing out just how popular the Mel Morris way was..and it was- until it wasn't!

Not all of course, it could be a large outsized minority distorting things but quite a lot didn't just say "Haha, isn't Mel clever" but they actively lauded some of these methods, trying to ignore or disregard the FFP issues down the track.

And that’s why there is soooo little sympathy for Derby supporters. 
 

I will never forget the MM image knocking out the EFL.  
 

Anyone know what interest rate HMRC charges?

Edited by REDOXO
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Lanterne Rouge

Lanterne Rouge

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Nice. Cheap loan then. 

I must confess to have `taken advantage` of their low rates once or twice in the past when the cost of borrowing to pay has been higher than they charge in interest. Worth remembering though that if you do do that it goes on the business`s credit file and can cause problems further down the line - not that Derby will care about a bit more shit being added to the heap I suppose though.

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REDOXO

REDOXO

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I must confess to have `taken advantage` of their low rates once or twice in the past when the cost of borrowing to pay has been higher than they charge in interest. Worth remembering though that if you do do that it goes on the business`s credit file and can cause problems further down the line - not that Derby will care about a bit more shit being added to the heap I suppose though.

It’s laughable unless there is a hefty fine to go with it!

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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, billywedlock said:

I guess Derby will have HMRC as their shirt sponsor for the next 100 years. Or they will be playing at the HMRC Pride Park Stadium 

Was WRDCFC

New name - HMRCDCFC

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Curr Avon

Curr Avon

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, billywedlock said:

I guess Derby will have HMRC as their shirt sponsor for the next 100 years. Or they will be playing at the HMRC Pride Park Stadium 

Take it away George!!!!!

1,2,3,4

Hrmm!

1,2...

1,2,3,4.

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet

Taxman!
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

Don't ask me what I want it for (Aahh Mr. Wilson)
If you don't want to pay some more (Aahh Mr. Heath)
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

And you're working for no one but me
Taxman!

 

 

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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

Take it away George!!!!!

1,2,3,4

Hrmm!

1,2...

1,2,3,4.

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet

Taxman!
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

Don't ask me what I want it for (Aahh Mr. Wilson)
If you don't want to pay some more (Aahh Mr. Heath)
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

And you're working for no one but me
Taxman!

 

 

My all time favourite album cover, and my favourite Beatles LP. Closely followed by The White Album 

Edited by exAtyeoMax
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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Wouldn't expect it to be concluded this season.

 

They have a year only- been 6 months give or take since they went in and it seems to be the case that no club can be in administration for more than 18 months.

I don't think it'll come to that, but that 18 month rule hasn't gone away?

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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

Posted
Posted
Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

They have a year only- been 6 months give or take since they went in and it seems to be the case that no club can be in administration for more than 18 months.

I don't think it'll come to that, but that 18 month rule hasn't gone away?

The reason I say it'll stretch into the off-season is that we have to assume that their proof of funds is valid and correct, and so they do have enough cash to see out this season. That does take some pressure off of the administrators, and does mean that for all their bluster about sorting it out 'imminently', they presumably are good until the end of May?

At that point there does come a bit of pressure to sort it before the 2022/23 season kicks off, as at that point I believe they suffer a -15 point deduction for commencing a season whilst in Administration. They will also likely be without Rooney and will have a threadbare squad of kids and possibly the tea lady in goal. I suspect there would also be an EFL requirement to show proof of funds for the 2022/23 season. Would they be able to do that? I doubt it unless they can sell their players for serious millions.

Sorry, I forget what the 18 month rule is.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

The reason I say it'll stretch into the off-season is that we have to assume that their proof of funds is valid and correct, and so they do have enough cash to see out this season. That does take some pressure off of the administrators, and does mean that for all their bluster about sorting it out 'imminently', they presumably are good until the end of May?

At that point there does come a bit of pressure to sort it before the 2022/23 season kicks off, as at that point I believe they suffer a -15 point deduction for commencing a season whilst in Administration. They will also likely be without Rooney and will have a threadbare squad of kids and possibly the tea lady in goal. I suspect there would also be an EFL requirement to show proof of funds for the 2022/23 season. Would they be able to do that? I doubt it unless they can sell their players for serious millions.

Sorry, I forget what the 18 month rule is.

Yes, end of season, May or June I reckon.

Good question, but thought the -15 was linked to exiting in the incorrect manner or below minimum EFL requirements. Proof of funds surely but they let Derby under Mel start...all depends on how long MSD keep wanting to put it in but probably sales and further cuts too.

Unsure what happens if they begin in Administration having already been docked 12 in the season of it.

Essentially, IIRC the EFL said in a recent statement that no club can a) Start two successive seasons in Administration or b) Spend more than 18 months in an unbroken period in Administration.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yes, end of season, May or June I reckon.

Good question, but thought the -15 was linked to exiting in the incorrect manner or below minimum EFL requirements. Proof of funds surely but they let Derby under Mel start...all depends on how long MSD keep wanting to put it in but probably sales and further cuts too.

Unsure what happens if they begin in Administration having already been docked 12 in the season of it.

Essentially, IIRC the EFL said in a recent statement that no club can a) Start two successive seasons in Administration or b) Spend more than 18 months in an unbroken period in Administration.

Ah right.

Think I was getting muddled and thinking the -15 would be for starting next season in admin. If instead it is linked to exiting Admin in an 'unapproved' manner then perhaps that encourages Quantuma to drag Admin out for as long as possible?

Regardless, I suspect there is actually not too much (relative) pressure to get this sorted until the off season.

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Hxj

Hxj

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Regardless, I suspect there is actually not too much (relative) pressure to get this sorted until the off season.

Except that we are coming up to the 31 March FFP deadline for future financial information, including details of how any losses are to be funded.  However any punishment is limited to embargo and budgets, so no change there.

 

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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Except that we are coming up to the 31 March FFP deadline for future financial information, including details of how any losses are to be funded.  However any punishment is limited to embargo and budgets, so no change there.

Yes, I excluded that from my answer to @exAtyeoMax regarding 'how long this might take' as I didn't thing the outcome was potentially terminal. But yes that is going to be an interesting deadline. 

Is there scope for discretionary exemption from that deadline? 

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chinapig

chinapig

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yes, end of season, May or June I reckon.

Good question, but thought the -15 was linked to exiting in the incorrect manner or below minimum EFL requirements. Proof of funds surely but they let Derby under Mel start...all depends on how long MSD keep wanting to put it in but probably sales and further cuts too.

Unsure what happens if they begin in Administration having already been docked 12 in the season of it.

Essentially, IIRC the EFL said in a recent statement that no club can a) Start two successive seasons in Administration or b) Spend more than 18 months in an unbroken period in Administration.

My understanding was that they could start next season in admin as they weren't in admin at the start of this season.

Of course they would still have to prove they have funds to continue after this season 's funding runs out. Which still means the only real solution is to find a buyer pronto.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ah right.

Think I was getting muddled and thinking the -15 would be for starting next season in admin. If instead it is linked to exiting Admin in an 'unapproved' manner then perhaps that encourages Quantuma to drag Admin out for as long as possible?

Regardless, I suspect there is actually not too much (relative) pressure to get this sorted until the off season.

'Unapproved' manner or not hitting the requirements ie minimum 25% to HMRC, same to Unsecured Creditors, Quantuma will surely insist on full payment, few million more.

Football Creditors is an interesting one, would seeking to stiffing these result merely in - 15 or would it be a dealbreaker, resulting in expulsion! Regardless it needs meeting in full but the EFL can withhold Central Awards as required of course.

43 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Except that we are coming up to the 31 March FFP deadline for future financial information, including details of how any losses are to be funded.  However any punishment is limited to embargo and budgets, so no change there.

 

The June Orders also said that Accounts for 2020/21 onwards either needed submitting if out of Administration or publishing through alternative arrangements if not. March 31st is their deadline for this too.

Then there is for P&S purposes the Projections for THIS season along with the last however many years of Restated Accounts, either the start or end of March.

30 minutes ago, East Londoner said:

Is there any rules for how quickly they can enter administration a second time? Given the level of debt and lack of assets and amount due to HMRC that might be their best bet 

Would be good to know!

Would hope that this same Embargo conditions etc remain, indeed remain in the relevant form until all outstanding issues sorted to the satisfaction of the EFL.

Back in admin? - 12 again, crippling Embargo and could they again rely on MSD??

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, chinapig said:

My understanding was that they could start next season in admin as they weren't in admin at the start of this season.

Of course they would still have to prove they have funds to continue after this season 's funding runs out. Which still means the only real solution is to find a buyer pronto.

Yeah that's mine too.

Agreed, although worth noting that Mel Morris wouldn't give the EFL certain guarantees, according to Nixon anyway last July or August. Had that been funding then they in some ways have got off lightly, see Dale and Bury.

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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Football Creditors is an interesting one, would seeking to stiffing these result merely in - 15 or would it be a dealbreaker, resulting in expulsion!

IIRC from my reading of the Regs and EFL Articles, the default is expulsion, with discretion to be less punitive than that.

Remember, they are right now under Notice of expulsion - that is automatic upon entry into Admin - effectively the EFL has been constantly postponing that expulsion for the last 6 months.

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Waconda

Waconda

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, chinapig said:

My understanding was that they could start next season in admin as they weren't in admin at the start of this season.

Of course they would still have to prove they have funds to continue after this season 's funding runs out. Which still means the only real solution is to find a buyer pronto.

The most important thing for the EFL is ensuring Derby finish this seasons fixtures, they will delay, ignore, postpone to make sure this happens.

Once that is done the gloves could well come off.

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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, chinapig said:

My understanding was that they could start next season in admin as they weren't in admin at the start of this season.

Of course they would still have to prove they have funds to continue after this season 's funding runs out. Which still means the only real solution is to find a buyer pronto.

So you’re saying they need the Loan Arranger and Pronto, kemosabe. :)

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HappyClapper

HappyClapper

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Take it away George!!!!!

1,2,3,4

Hrmm!

1,2...

1,2,3,4.

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet

Taxman!
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

Don't ask me what I want it for (Aahh Mr. Wilson)
If you don't want to pay some more (Aahh Mr. Heath)
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

And you're working for no one but me
Taxman!

 

 

I can’t believe they ripped off the baseline from Start by The Jam. Shocking 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)

From the Forest forum- made me laugh!

Quote

Candy Crush Land, you say? And the tinny, sinister music playing over the rotten turnstiles as a group of youths sneak into this derelict "theme park" of doom?


… Who can make a club die (who can make a club die)
Sell off all the youth (sell off all the youth)
Make bad enemies of a chairman or two

Oh the Candy Mel can (the Candy Mel can)
The Candy Mel can 'cause he cooked all the books
And made your world cave in (made your world cave in)

… Oh who can take tomorrow (who can take tomorrow)
Smash up all your dreams (Smash up all your dreams)
Leave you feeling sorrow and a big tax bill
… The Candy Mel (the Candy Mel)

Oh the Candy Mel can (the Candy Mel can)
The Candy Mel can 'cause he had you all on strings
And then destroyed D*rby (then destroyed D*rby)

Their demise of Derby thread. An entertaining read certainly that thread.

On a more serious note, their view is that a Preferred Bidder can be named by the end of the week/Friday I think.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-takeover-rams-efl-6851354

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

From the Forest forum- made me laugh!

Their demise of Derby thread. An entertaining read certainly that thread.

On a more serious note, their view is that a Preferred Bidder can be named by the end of the week/Friday I think.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-takeover-rams-efl-6851354

So, happy to leak news that sounds positive, but not the other way around.

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East Londoner

East Londoner

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

The word "deadline" has lost all meaning in terms of the Derby matter. It now lies in a grave alongside the word "imminent". The English language is the real victim in all of this.

Maybe they’d be better served swapping the word believe with hope and hope they’re in a position to announce. 

Although it seems Derby's fans think once they have someone willing to buy the club they’ll immediately be able to start signing players. And are assuming HMRC will say they’d be delighted with only 25% 
 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Got my last post slightly wrong, apparently by Friday or next Monday they are due to decide on the Preferred Bidder, obviously present it to EFL etc. Maybe name/announce a week or 2 later once EFL satisfied.

I can’t wait.

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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Got my last post slightly wrong, apparently by Friday or next Monday they are due to decide on the Preferred Bidder, obviously present it to EFL etc. Maybe name/announce a week or 2 later once EFL satisfied.

I enjoyed this post on DCFC.

image.thumb.png.bb0f3a1b3d414192ee0ca8def0bb09ed.png

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slartibartfast

slartibartfast

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, downendcity said:

 Quantuma have bought in an academic to help explain the situation spoken to clarify the situation.......

 

Are you sitting comfybold two square on your botty, then we'll begin .....

 

(four points, and a full government pension if you know what that's from)

Edited by slartibartfast
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Derby_Ram

Derby_Ram

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the amusement catching up on a couple of weeks worth of posts on this thread. Pretty confident some of you lot spend more than time Quantuma looking into us. 

According to the Daily Telegraph 3 live bids in ahead of tomorrow with Appleby - always known to be one of the still interested three previously - fighting to be able to be able to get a fourth in place. However the bids would still incur a deduction next season as expected.

The three current bids without Appleby being one is a little perplexing. Unfounded rumours have mentioned Mel's name which I fear would lead to me spontaneously combusting. Anyway, expect a preferred bidder to be announced in the next 12 months.

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chinapig

chinapig

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Derby_Ram said:

Thanks for the amusement catching up on a couple of weeks worth of posts on this thread. Pretty confident some of you lot spend more than time Quantuma looking into us. 

According to the Daily Telegraph 3 live bids in ahead of tomorrow with Appleby - always known to be one of the still interested three previously - fighting to be able to be able to get a fourth in place. However the bids would still incur a deduction next season as expected.

The three current bids without Appleby being one is a little perplexing. Unfounded rumours have mentioned Mel's name which I fear would lead to me spontaneously combusting. Anyway, expect a preferred bidder to be announced in the next 12 months.

12 months is comfortably within Quantuma's definition of imminent after all.?

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REDOXO

REDOXO

Posted
Posted

The idea of Morris being involved in one or more of the bids is nothing short of bizarre, but completely unsurprising. 
 

The current rule (and I only know this from here) of you can not have two bankruptcies, in theory I guess, means he could be back. However imagine the EFL being told that Morris is a backer of the preferred bid, when they have stopped laughing, the scramble to the rule book would be fun to watch. Also any thought of HMRC cutting them a deal outside of time to pay can be completely discarded. 
 

The other thing that I would be wondering is how close to not meeting EFL membership requirements will the bid be! -15 seems to be the expectation. However this now strikes me as the game of chicken being played is at do or die and at what level are the EFL going to bend their rules for Derby under pressure from politicians et al! 

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Sir Geoff

Sir Geoff

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The idea of Morris being involved in one or more of the bids is nothing short of bizarre, but completely unsurprising. 
 

The current rule (and I only know this from here) of you can not have two bankruptcies, in theory I guess, means he could be back. However imagine the EFL being told that Morris is a backer of the preferred bid, when they have stopped laughing, the scramble to the rule book would be fun to watch. Also any thought of HMRC cutting them a deal outside of time to pay can be completely discarded. 
 

The other thing that I would be wondering is how close to not meeting EFL membership requirements will the bid be! -15 seems to be the expectation. However this now strikes me as the game of chicken being played is at do or die and at what level are the EFL going to bend their rules for Derby under pressure from politicians et al! 

Can't see the EFL bending any rules, particularly as they are answerable to 71 other clubs and one of the board members is a QC. This all has to be strictly by the book or repercussions will go on for years.

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REDOXO

REDOXO

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Can't see the EFL bending any rules, particularly as they are answerable to 71 other clubs and one of the board members is a QC. This all has to be strictly by the book or repercussions will go on for years.

 

2 hours ago, Midred said:

Haven't people been saying this for the last couple of seasons?

Amazing how much more amenable the authorities can be with the 'big' clubs? Efl with Derby and now the PL with Everton!

I hope Sir Geoff is right and of course the clubs will have their say. However I can see this running for years what ever happens. 
 

My personal thought is despite the nonsense that comes from Derbyshire The EFL have already gone above and beyond to assist a club that tried to break as many rules as possible which could have resulted in the EFL being broken. 
 

I guess by next Friday we will know something concrete. I won’t be holding my breath mind you!

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