Derby County

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

So 2 hours 45 mins for Klrchner to prove he's got the dollars.

He might want to have a word with Dustin Johnson at the LIV golf. He can probably invest a few million from the £150m he's being paid by Saudi Arabia.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, downendcity said:

He might want to have a word with Dustin Johnson at the LIV golf. He can probably invest a few million from the £150m he's being paid by Saudi Arabia.

Mate, c'mon. You know Johnson just needs that cash to help keep a roof over his kids' head. He can't fritter it away on basketcase vanity projects like Wayne Rooney's Derby County Football Club Ltd (in administration).

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, downendcity said:

He might want to have a word with Dustin Johnson at the LIV golf. He can probably invest a few million from the £150m he's being paid by Saudi Arabia.

5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Mate, c'mon. You know Johnson just needs that cash to help keep a roof over his kids' head. He can't fritter it away on basketcase vanity projects like Wayne Rooney's Derby County Football Club Ltd (in administration).

Did either of you watch the event promo interviews the other day.  Talk about uncomfortable answering Qs.  Just be honest that you’re in it for the money.

[BTRFTG]

If you've ever worked closely with Saudis you'll appreciate there's a raft of difference between what one is owed and that one eventually receives (akin Derby and their creditors......)

[downendcity]

23 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Mate, c'mon. You know Johnson just needs that cash to help keep a roof over his kids' head. He can't fritter it away on basketcase vanity projects like Wayne Rooney's Derby County Football Club Ltd (in administration).

I've heard that without Saudi money DJs family would need to use food banks and charity shops.

[downendcity]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Did either of you watch the event promo interviews the other day.  Talk about uncomfortable answering Qs.  Just be honest that you’re in it for the money.

At least Richard Bland was honest enough to admit that at 48 (I think) and having waited until his late 40s for his first ever win on tour, that it was the money.

He's never earned the money that DJ, Sergio, Westwood and the like have, and was honest to admit that it would secure his family for life.

Mickelson is reputed to be worth $400, despite his gambling debts, so why he needs Saudi money and the adverse publicity it's attracted is anyone's guess.

 

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Any idea who paid Derby's May wages? Rumour was Rooney but be good to know who and on what basis given Quantuma claimed to have the wherewithal to see Derby through the summer & that didn't happen.

Radio Derby said it definitely wasn't Rooney but did not reveal who it was other than somebody close to the club.

It certainly wasn't Kirchner.

[ExiledAjax]

49 minutes ago, downendcity said:

I've heard that without Saudi money DJs family would need to use food banks and charity shops.

It's the cost of living crisis really hitting home. Sad.

[Monkeh]

Well that's the deadline gone

[REDOXO]

5:00. What’s the latest?

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

5:00. What’s the latest?

Imminent

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

Mickelson is reputed to be worth $400, despite his gambling debts, so why he needs Saudi money and the adverse publicity it's attracted is anyone's guess.

 

That is just about enough to fill up his car.

[ExiledAjax]

Imagine having two failed football club takeovers on your CV. 

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Imagine having two failed football club takeovers on your CV. 

Preston saw through him yet Quantuma took him seriously and Derby fans fell in love with him. The man has advanced tyre kicking skills for sure.

[ExiledAjax]

7 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Preston saw through him yet Quantuma took him seriously and Derby fans fell in love with him. The man has advanced tyre kicking skills for sure.

Wasn't the PNE thing that he couldn't write, or maybe couldn't understand why he needed to write, a business plan?

Edited June 10, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Wasn't the PNE thing that he couldn't write, or maybe couldn't understand why he needed to write, a business plan?

It was that he wanted them to write his business plan apparently plus they weren't convinced he could deliver the money.

[Monkeh]

I generally think they are going to get liquidated 

[REDOXO]

15 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I generally think they are going to get liquidated 

Right now hat is the best result for Q as my understanding is they’ll be right at the front of the creditors list. However as DCFC have little in the way of saleable assets perhaps not. 

[BTRFTG]

Forest's official tweet at 5pm tonight - shithousery of the first water but made me laugh.

[exAtyeoMax]

They are saying that Q refuse to contemplate selling to MA…would they really let DCFC die?

[chinapig]

11 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

They are saying that Q refuse to contemplate selling to MA…would they really let DCFC die?

Allegedly Ashley is refusing to pay their fees. Anybody would think they hadn't earned them with the brilliant job they've done.

[chinapig]

From John Percy in the Telegraph. Note the detail of Quantuma's behaviour:

Derby County have been plunged deeper into crisis after Chris Kirchner’s takeover bid collapsed.

Quantuma, the Derby administrators, are under increasing pressure after Kirchner failed to meet a 5pm deadline to complete a deal.

The English Football League are understood to be furious and an already dire situation is now critical with the fixtures for the new season to be announced later this month.

EFL bosses will demand that Derby provide evidence they can start and complete the 2022/23 campaign, while payroll for staff and players is also required for June, and with Kirchner’s takeover bid disintegrating the club is racing against time to find a buyer.

Former Derby chairman Andy Appleby remains interested in a purchase, but is desperately seeking financial backing after Richard Riley, an American businessman, pulled out in January. Riley is now on the board at Queens Park Rangers.

Ex-Newcastle owner Mike Ashley is still determined to complete a buyout but negotiations with Quantuma have been fractious.

Steve Morgan, the former Wolves chairman, has been linked with a bid, though it is understood his interest waned after Derby’s relegation to League One.

Kirchner could still remain a contender, though Quantuma are under serious scrutiny after naming him as preferred bidder in April. Kirchner had provided proof of funds to the EFL but failed to transfer the money, raising questions over whether Quantuma carried out proper due diligence.

It is also alleged that Quantuma agreed a deal with Appleby’s consortium in January, but then mysteriously withdrew from talks.

Appleby had thrashed out a deal which included the purchase of Pride Park stadium, while Morgan had also smoothed over the legal dispute with Middlesbrough chairman Steve Gibson.

There are other allegations that Quantuma are declining to enter dialogue with Ashley after a stormy meeting earlier this year, in which the billionaire was heavily critical of their methods and ethics. Sources claim he had also agreed a deal with Mel Morris, the former Derby owner, over the stadium in December.

Now Quantuma are locked in a battle to find a buyer, with pre-season training at Derby to start in a fortnight.

Wayne Rooney, the manager, is facing further problems with his assistant, Liam Rosenior, in the frame to take over at Blackpool.

Rosenior has been interviewed by the Championship club after the departure of Neil Critchley and is a strong contender for the post.

Derby have been in administration since September, with only five senior players currently contracted to the club.

Edited June 10, 2022 by chinapig

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

From John Percy in the Telegraph:

Derby County have been plunged deeper into crisis after Chris Kirchner’s takeover bid collapsed.

Quantuma, the Derby administrators, are under increasing pressure after Kirchner failed to meet a 5pm deadline to complete a deal.

The English Football League are understood to be furious and an already dire situation is now critical with the fixtures for the new season to be announced later this month.

EFL bosses will demand that Derby provide evidence they can start and complete the 2022/23 campaign, while payroll for staff and players is also required for June, and with Kirchner’s takeover bid disintegrating the club is racing against time to find a buyer.

Former Derby chairman Andy Appleby remains interested in a purchase, but is desperately seeking financial backing after Richard Riley, an American businessman, pulled out in January. Riley is now on the board at Queens Park Rangers.

Ex-Newcastle owner Mike Ashley is still determined to complete a buyout but negotiations with Quantuma have been fractious.

Steve Morgan, the former Wolves chairman, has been linked with a bid, though it is understood his interest waned after Derby’s relegation to League One.

Kirchner could still remain a contender, though Quantuma are under serious scrutiny after naming him as preferred bidder in April. Kirchner had provided proof of funds to the EFL but failed to transfer the money, raising questions over whether Quantuma carried out proper due diligence.

It is also alleged that Quantuma agreed a deal with Appleby’s consortium in January, but then mysteriously withdrew from talks.

Appleby had thrashed out a deal which included the purchase of Pride Park stadium, while Morgan had also smoothed over the legal dispute with Middlesbrough chairman Steve Gibson.

There are other allegations that Quantuma are declining to enter dialogue with Ashley after a stormy meeting earlier this year, in which the billionaire was heavily critical of their methods and ethics. Sources claim he had also agreed a deal with Mel Morris, the former Derby owner, over the stadium in December.

Now Quantuma are locked in a battle to find a buyer, with pre-season training at Derby to start in a fortnight.

Wayne Rooney, the manager, is facing further problems with his assistant, Liam Rosenior, in the frame to take over at Blackpool.

Rosenior has been interviewed by the Championship club after the departure of Neil Critchley and is a strong contender for the post.

Derby have been in administration since September, with only five senior players currently contracted to the club.

Q are now just that bloke outside Oceana at 3am. 3 strawpedos, 7 pints, and 6 jagers down. His mates have all disappeared, the girl he was talking to has just got in a taxi with her mates, it's cold and he dropped his kebab. He will literally go with anyone that looks at him.

[chinapig]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Q are now just that bloke outside Oceana at 3am. 3 strawpedos, 7 pints, and 6 jagers down. His mates have all disappeared, the girl he was talking to has just got in a taxi with her mates, it's cold and he dropped his kebab. He will literally go with anyone that looks at him.

Gee thanks for triggering flashbacks to my youth. Though in my day it was the Top Rank.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, chinapig said:

Gee thanks for triggering flashbacks to my youth. Though in my day it was the Top Rank.

I've even worse news I'm afraid. In this nightmarish imagined metaphor...it's Mike Ashley who's eyeing you up from the taxi rank.

Yes, he has got 4 shirt buttons undone.

Yes, that is a gold chain round his neck.

Yes, he has passed his AML checks.

Now. Off you pop.

[Betty Swallocks]

I can only imagine the mental gymnastics being performed in the heads of Derby fans this evening, trying to find ways in which they can blame the EFL, Steve Gibson & Wycombe for these latest developments. 

[awbb]

As someone who has followed the story with a a growing opinion that Q are basically chancers it’s hard not to think that Mike Ashley, as truculent and difficult as he obviously is, is probably right, if the above story is true!

Bearing in mind the situation, if I were a Derby fan I would be furious that Ashley was being blocked. That man knows how to run a football club within its means, after all, as much as he was criticised for it.

[chinapig]

6 minutes ago, Betty Swallocks said:

I can only imagine the mental gymnastics being performed in the heads of Derby fans this evening, trying to find ways in which they can blame the EFL, Steve Gibson & Wycombe for these latest developments. 

Actually the same people who were cheering on Morris for dragging things out and having the EFL on strings are now criticising them for being too slow. They're not big on self awareness.

And now one of them is saying the EFL was happy with Morris' "novel" accounting methods until Kieran Maguire forced them to change their mind.

You couldn't make it up. Except of course that they do.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Seeing the EFL are "furious" in a couple of articles. Times article and follow-up referred to this and now Percy...patience must be wearing a bit thin by now, there are 71 other clubs to consider and their interests to uphold too.

4 minutes ago, awbb said:

As someone who has followed the story with a a growing opinion that Q are basically chancers it’s hard not to think that Mike Ashley, as truculent and difficult as he obviously is, is probably right, if the above story is true!

Bearing in mind the situation, if I were a Derby fan I would be furious that Ashley was being blocked. That man knows how to run a football club within its means, after all, as much as he was criticised for it.

While I mostly do agree, would Ashley's offer have been the best deal for the creditors- Quantuma IIRC are legally bound by this.

[awbb]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

While I mostly do agree, would Ashley's offer have been the best deal for the creditors- Quantuma IIRC are legally bound by this.

Knowing Ashley (albeit only the persona portrayed by the media) it won’t be generous!

[semblar]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Seeing the EFL are "furious" in a couple of articles. Times article and follow-up referred to this and now Percy...patience must be wearing a bit thin by now, there are 71 other clubs to consider and their interests to uphold too.

While I mostly do agree, would Ashley's offer have been the best deal for the creditors- Quantuma IIRC are legally bound by this.

Absolutely - and they are also bound to find the best possible deal for the creditors, even if that is liquidation above the MA offer

 

Quote

What Is The Key Duty Of An Administrator?

The key duty of an Administrator is to act in the best interest of creditors as a whole.

That means that an Administrator’s duty is not to act in the best interest of individual creditors if their position does not match the creditors as a whole.

General Duties Of An Administrator

In general, an Administrator has the following duties:

• to act fairly and honourably
• to manage the company’s affairs as set out in the Administrator’s Proposals document
• to act quickly and efficiently
• to act with reasonable care and skill of an ordinary skilled and careful insolvency practitioner
• to take reasonable care to obtain the best price obtainable for the company assets
• to act with purpose and adhere to relevant considerations when performing functions
• to act with consideration and loyalty to company creditors

nothing explicit in that about protecting the heritage of the club, much as many would think it should be in there somewhere.. possibly something in "relevant considerations"?

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, awbb said:

Knowing Ashley (albeit only the persona portrayed by the media) it won’t be generous!

It's an interesting one tbh- do tend to agree but last year there were reports of a £50m bid- including stadium and HMRC, MSD debt was lower at this juncture- but if it was then it certainly wouldn't be now!

[BTRFTG]

Ok. CK is most likely a fraud, or chancer, or liar, but there is a most delicious scenario that the bloke Derby fans are slating to the hills tonight for not meeting the deadline might, just might, in the next few hours prove he has the ability to take them over then, having noted their diatribe,  decided not to bother.

That would be a delicious twist worthy of 'Tales Of The Unexpected' or 'Inside No9'. Probably won't happen, but with a Keeganesque fervour; boy, would I love it...boy would I love it.....

[BTRFTG]

38 minutes ago, awbb said:

Knowing Ashley (albeit only the persona portrayed by the media) it won’t be generous!

Not sure if you're a follower of 'Price of Football' but for years now a very considered and reasoned take from football's favourite accountant (and fan) has been wholly in favour of Ashley's financial acumen, albeit his recognition that runs in opposition to fans irrational and unreasonable demands.

Ashley acquired a Newcastle shipping £250k per week. A Newcastle with but a few months to live. A Newcastle with collateral, massive fanbase and huge potential. Didn't take Ashley long to trim outgoings, consolidate the short term (albeit with limited ambition,) and after Spurs deliver the best financial stability in The Premier for year after year. From an accounting perspective he worked miracles at and for Newcastle United. Fans clearly didn't think that meritorious.

So before accusing Ashley of looking for a cheap asset striping exploit ask oneself the difference between the Newcastle he purchased and the Derby on offer? Unless there's collateral to underpin the whole shebang Derby is a non-starter and in simple terms that involves Morris paying off MSD and gifting Ashley's buyout the stadium. That's why, all other debt aside, this is Ashley pulling Morris' pants down and asking him, politely, to bend over and grit his teeth. It's nothing to do with getting things on the cheap. It's business. It's personal.

[chinapig]

John Percy seems to be the go to guy. Check out the latest on Quantuma:

As of tonight: Andy Appleby group have contacted Quantuma “multiple times” this week with no response. Mike Ashley group, through Lee Charnley, are also saying the same. Mindboggling

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, chinapig said:

John Percy seems to be the go to guy. Check out the latest on Quantuma:

As of tonight: Andy Appleby group have contacted Quantuma “multiple times” this week with no response. Mike Ashley group, through Lee Charnley, are also saying the same. Mindboggling

Quantuma - Latin for “smile and invoice”

[BTRFTG]

29 minutes ago, chinapig said:

John Percy seems to be the go to guy. Check out the latest on Quantuma:

As of tonight: Andy Appleby group have contacted Quantuma “multiple times” this week with no response. Mike Ashley group, through Lee Charnley, are also saying the same. Mindboggling

Andy Appleby? Any relation to the bloke who sold to and acted as Chairman initially for, er, Mel Morris?

[chinapig]

Just now, BTRFTG said:

Andy Appleby? Any relation to the bloke who sold to and acted as Chairman initially for, er, Mel Morris?

The very same!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Bit of revisionism here although tbh a range of views.

https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/39808-if-quantuma-hadnt-accepted-the-extra-9-points/

Apparently a good lawyer would have got the -9 overturned and had a crack at reducing the -12 too!

Non compliant accounts meant the EFL could do as they see fit to an extent- that combined with Insolvency...well see the Professional Standing rule. What some of them perhaps fail to grasp is that one or more of the following would have been a goer- btw the IDC ruled x but the LAP is the Upper Tribunal and their judgement falling against Derby meant they were in deep trouble.

What this poster chooses not to grasp- and the kind of revisionism in and around the thread really does wear sympathy somewhat- is that their overall strategic position may have been worse still. The EFL's best bet in the event of a fight would have been to drag it out as long and painfully as possible- I'd have done that. Buyer would not touch the club with a barge pole while that was dragging!

The judgment by the LAP- which sits above the IDC in the pecking order- meant that Derby's accounts were officially non-compliant and the EFL could do what they did, ie Professional Standing and so on. Why would the Upper Tribunal uphold some kind of dismissal by the IDC for the -9...when they were the ones who deemed Derby guilty last May!

Anyway yes, options for the EFL- who pays the legal fees for Derby btw, how does that work- a club losing money and reliant on high interest loans just to keep the lights on ie the MSD loans...

1. It is eminently possible that as a result of the complexities and fresh charges, the case may still be ongoing now- which would mean that Derby would be nowhere near a takeover.
2. Goes without saying that a new owner would inherit the shitstorm if they manage to hold their nerve and dispute- if a takeover and remaining an EFL member was even possible in those circs.
3. Obviously the Professional Standing Embargo remains in full force while the case is ongoing and yes any academy player coming on for a late sub appearance counts towards that 23 from memory?
4. Or the EFL can go after them with 1 Hearing per breach- that would be 3 and who knows how long that would take- with point 3 still in full force.

Would Derby even still be standing had they fought it? Plus there is always the small matter of the notice of withdrawal of Membership for being insolvent- what a Pyrrhic victory that could have been. Think that is 90 days.

That poster seems to know a fair bit about accounting and finance- assume he is one, but I don't see how the idea works in reality.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

As for Derby and their situation a few random not terribly structured thoughts...

• Mel Morris is for the most part to blame.
• Mr. Kirchner well what can we say.
• Quantuma get plenty of flak and rightly so but in slight defence they were dealt an awful hand- but Mike Ashley fee issue notwithstanding surely seems the best bet?
• Flak that the EFL have been receiving is quite unfair for the most part- indeed rather a lot of fans of other clubs at this level think there has been excessive leniency if you read social media and forums. For the most part they have been seeking to uphold their regulations.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[chinapig]

32 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Apparently a good lawyer would have got the -9 overturned and had a crack at reducing the -12 too!

According to Kieran Maguire Quantuma spent £145k on legal advice. Clearly the lawyers advised against an appeal.

Presumably they pointed out that "we're Derby County so we should get special treatment" was unlikely to be the basis of a successful appeal.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

52 minutes ago, chinapig said:

According to Kieran Maguire Quantuma spent £145k on legal advice. Clearly the lawyers advised against an appeal.

Presumably they pointed out that "we're Derby County so we should get special treatment" was unlikely to be the basis of a successful appeal.

 

Thanks. The only other option I guess was to take the LAP decision to a higher court- if possible. Then however, this would have breached their terms of membership and should have meant suspension at best for the duration of the legal challenge...which given how long these things take is surely a fast track to liquidation.

The other bit I forgot to add in my main post is that an EFL statement in mid September 2021 basically said there was no upper time limit to the process- so Derby could have been in perpetual limbo had they fought on.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[BTRFTG]

59 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Quantuma get plenty of flak and rightly so but in slight defence they were dealt an awful hand- but Mike Ashley fee issue notwithstanding surely seems the best bet?

Best bet for what and whom? Save Derby County?  Perhaps, but what else?

Folks are making the MASSIVE assumption that there's even a deal to be done with MA. For sure he'll offer terms (I could do that,) but like those I'd demand I reckon these would include getting the ground and MSD's debt cleared via MM's gift, not via any injection of funds made, those being used to settle the issue with HMRC and other creditors so as to take the business out of administration. Of course Q have no power or authority over either just as MM has no legal obligation to help, other than a court could exercise the charge against assets held by MM should no other repayment to MSD materialize. 

Likewise, folks assume MM and MSD not to be singing from the same hymnsheet. But they were, they were thick as pigs in sh*t in their dealings and the MSD charge might just be another ruse between MM and MD and chums to retain as much as possible for themselves, leaving others to absorb maximum damage.

So whilst the rumour is it's the £4m fees to Q that's holding everything up, personally I reckon that's another yarn. The amount Ashley is rumoured to have offered is barely enough to cover HMRC and non-secured creditors. If that includes the stadium without charge there's a deal to be done, if it's for name and scrap only, who's kidding who?

Edited June 11, 2022 by BTRFTG

[chinapig]

20 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Best bet for what and whom? Save Derby County?  Perhaps, but what else?

Quite, though the priority is the best deal for the creditors of course.

[Mr Popodopolous]

25 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Best bet for what and whom? Save Derby County?  Perhaps, but what else?

Folks are making the MASSIVE assumption that there's even a deal to be done with MA. For sure he'll offer terms (I could do that,) but like those I'd demand I reckon these would include getting the ground and MSD's debt cleared via MM's gift, not via any injection of funds made, those being used to settle the issue with HMRC and other creditors so as to take the business out of administration. Of course Q have no power or authority over either just as MM has no legal obligation to help, other than a court could exercise the charge against assets held by MM should no other repayment to MSD materialize. 

Likewise, folks assume MM and MSD not to be singing from the same hymnsheet. But they were, they were thick as pigs in sh*t in their dealings and the MSD charge might just be another ruse between MM and MD and chums to retain as much as possible for themselves, leaving others to absorb maximum damage.

So whilst the rumour is it's the £4m fees to Q that's holding everything up, personally I reckon that's another yarn. The amount Ashley is rumoured to have offered is barely enough to cover HMRC and non-secured creditors. If that includes the stadium without charge there's a deal to be done, if it's for name and scrap only, who's kidding who?

Yeah good point- will rephrase that, most likely to run them sensibly combined with proven funds probably.

Requires MSD consent or clearance of the charge in order to proceed or to get the charge waived I thought? While since I've looked into it.

MSD as secured creditors have the strongest security of all- even bits on Twitter suggested in the past that part of their security is covered by Mel Morris and his London properties. MSD was a cross security of some kind IIRC. They are literally top of the chain- ahead of HMRC, Insolvency Practitioners and so on. @Hxj has posted about this before, he knows more than me I am sure...they are quite well covered! MSD would be paid via the sale price of the stadium.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Ska Junkie]

There have been a  lot of pages added since I last ventured on to this thread, could someone give a precis version of where Derby are at currently, deadlines etc please as it seems they are back in the realms of closure to me? @Mr Popodopolouswould you mind Sir?

Thanks.

[CyderInACan]

16 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

could someone give a precis version of where Derby are at currently

They’re fukked. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by CyderInACan

[cityloyal473]

1 minute ago, CyderInACan said:

They’re fukked. 

Mike Ashley will ride in and rescue them. 

[downendcity]

18 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

There have been a  lot of pages added since I last ventured on to this thread, could someone give a precis version of where Derby are at currently, deadlines etc please as it seems they are back in the realms of closure to me? @Mr Popodopolouswould you mind Sir?

Thanks.

Their demise is................well it's............

........imminent is the word!

[Davefevs]

Think it’s time for the EFL to let Derby go, cut the strings (the irony of MM having them on strings).

Sad as it is for the history / heritage of Derby, it’s fans, it’s employees, there needs to be hard deadline…and it needs sticking to.

[cityloyal473]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think it’s time for the EFL to let Derby go, cut the strings (the irony of MM having them on strings).

Sad as it is for the history / heritage of Derby, it’s fans, it’s employees, there needs to be hard deadline…and it needs sticking to.

Not gonna happen. Deserved, yes. But won’t happen. Any talk of it is fantasy. 

[BTRFTG]

28 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah good point- will rephrase that, most likely to run them sensibly combined with proven funds probably.

Requires MSD consent or clearance of the charge in order to proceed or to get the charge waived I thought? While since I've looked into it.

MSD as secured creditors have the strongest security of all- even bits on Twitter suggested in the past that part of their security is covered by Mel Morris and his London properties. MSD was a cross security of some kind IIRC. They are literally top of the chain- ahead of HMRC, Insolvency Practitioners and so on. @Hxj has posted about this before, he knows more than me I am sure...they are quite well covered! MSD would be paid via the sale price of the stadium.

Note my point about the MM / MSD assumption. What better way of protecting ones interests than being top of the secured pile? The two go back to the development of the whole Pride Park complex. MSD were complicit in furthering additional funds to keep Derby going (naturally all secured.) What chance they may well have paid May's wages but wouldn't want that known? Folks assume they aren't in cahoots, but why is that, they loads in common? If they simply wanted their monies back they could easily have forced that ages ago.

So yes, both stadium and charge are beyond Q's control which back to the original point may account for a reluctance to deal with MA if these are a known prerequisite as to his demands. Fees may be a convenient red herring.

[BTRFTG]

As students of negotiation or game theory will remind the thing most folks fail to appreciate is absolute power sits not with those who may end up winning rather it sits with those who retain an ability to stop others winning, especially where they themselves have already lost.

Those thinking Ashley holds all the aces, he doesn't.

[BTRFTG]

59 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Quite, though the priority is the best deal for the creditors of course.

And per my comment re the MM / MSD historic association, who'd be surprised were MM himself ultimately to benefit via outside arrangements from MSDs secured credit status? 

[Midred]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah good point- will rephrase that, most likely to run them sensibly combined with proven funds probably.

Requires MSD consent or clearance of the charge in order to proceed or to get the charge waived I thought? While since I've looked into it.

MSD as secured creditors have the strongest security of all- even bits on Twitter suggested in the past that part of their security is covered by Mel Morris and his London properties. MSD was a cross security of some kind IIRC. They are literally top of the chain- ahead of HMRC, Insolvency Practitioners and so on. @Hxj has posted about this before, he knows more than me I am sure...they are quite well covered! MSD would be paid via the sale price of the stadium.

Yeah, the 80 million should cover it!

[bert tann]

16 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

As students of negotiation or game theory will remind the thing most folks fail to appreciate is absolute power sits not with those who may end up winning rather it sits with those who retain an ability to stop others winning, especially where they themselves have already lost.

Those thinking Ashley holds all the aces, he doesn't.

Dickie, if you are interested there is a job waiting for you at the AJIB

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

This is longer than the Forsyth Saga. How many chances does Kirchner get? How many chances do Derby get? How many brown envelopes have the post office delivered to the EFL board? 

[cityloyal473]

13 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

This is longer than the Forsyth Saga. How many chances does Kirchner get? How many chances do Derby get? How many brown envelopes have the post office delivered to the EFL board? 

You, and many on this thread don’t get it - Derby ain’t gonna be liquidated or suffer any other severe financial or operational consequences.

They’ll survive.

They’ll be ok.

Wishful thinking and waiting for the EFL to cut them adrift isn’t gonna do anything.

They’ll get promoted next season. 
 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by cityloyal473

[Lanterne Rouge]

Derby County: Fans react to the collapse of club sale - BBC News

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

7 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

You, and many on this thread don’t get it - Derby ain’t gonna be liquidated or suffer any other severe financial or operational consequences.

They’ll survive.

They’ll be ok.

Wishful thinking and waiting for the EFL to cut them adrift isn’t gonna do anything.

They’ll get promoted next season. 
 

 

I get it alright, I just wondered what the numbers were. I'm well aware that the EFL gives incompetence a bad name and I wouldn't trust them to run a bath. 

[cityloyal473]

Just now, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I get it alright, I just wondered what the numbers were. I'm well aware that the EFL gives incompetence a bad name and I wouldn't trust them to run a bath. 

Apologies. Reading back My reply seems curt.

But the premise stands: Derby will survive and will flourish in one form or other. There won’t be overly adverse effects to their ongoing kerfuffle.  

Too big to fail, unfortunately.  If they go, there’s a precedent. 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

18 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

Apologies. Reading back My reply seems curt.

But the premise stands: Derby will survive and will flourish in one form or other. There won’t be overly adverse effects to their ongoing kerfuffle.  

Too big to fail, unfortunately.  If they go, there’s a precedent. 

I totally agree with you and don't actually want Derby to go to the wall I just want equity. The importance of football, the national sport, to the social culture of the UK cannot be over-emphasised. Football clubs are not just sporting institutions but are a crucial social resource for their local community. Its just as well I'm not PM because I would have stuck 2 fingers up to FIFA, UEFA long ago and launched a major investigation into how football is run and administered in the UK with particular reference to finance and who is fit and proper to be a director of a football club. As a starter I would have the NAO investigate the finances and governance of the football authorities and each club with a view to providing a new set of rules that are to be adhered to or face severe penalty. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by RoystonFoote'snephew
Typo alteration

[bert tann]

6 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I totally agree with you and don't actually want Derby to go to the wall I just want equity. The importance of football, the national sport, to the social culture of the UK cannot be over-emphasised. Football clubs are not just sporting institutions but are a crucial social resource for their local community. Its just as well I'm not PM because I would have stuck 2 fingers up to FIFA, UEFA long ago and launched a major investigation into how football is run and administered in the UK with particular reference to finance and who is fit and proper to be a director of a football club. As a starter I would have the NAO investigate the finances and governance of the football authorities and each club with a view to providing a new set of rules that are to be adhered to or face severe penalty. 

 

Fine, just don’t let them go near Cyprus

 

[Monkeh]

2 hours ago, cityloyal473 said:

Not gonna happen. Deserved, yes. But won’t happen. Any talk of it is fantasy. 

It happened to Chester Bury and Hereford,

Portsmouth, Bolton, Bradford, Stockport, 

The list goes on, if this isn't sorted in the next month then Derby will not be starting the season

Edited June 11, 2022 by Monkeh

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, cityloyal473 said:

You, and many on this thread don’t get it - Derby ain’t gonna be liquidated or suffer any other severe financial or operational consequences.

They’ll survive.

They’ll be ok.

Wishful thinking and waiting for the EFL to cut them adrift isn’t gonna do anything.

They’ll get promoted next season. 
 

I broadly agree with you in that it seems that a club with Derby's history is given more than its fair share of chances to pull irons out of the fire.

However, in the absence of a buyer, surely there has to be a day of reckoning very soon, in terms of Derby's ability to fulfill fixtures next season.

Doesn't there have to be evidence of sufficient funds for this and also that they have playing staff to put out a team - both of which appear lacking at the moment?

[chinapig]

10 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

It happened to Chester Bury and Hereford,

Portsmouth, Bolton, Bradford, Stockport, 

The list goes on, if this isn't sorted in the next month then Derby will not be starting the season

It may in fact be that they only have 2 weeks to prove to the EFL that they have the money to complete next season.

They can start the season still in administration but only if they have done that as an absolute minimum. But where is that money going to come from?

[chinapig]

More from Rob Dorsett. Note the price is now £30m:

Kirchner still adamant he wants to buy, money in European clearing bank, and he’s staying in UK to complete deal. Steve Morgan no longer interested, Andy Appleby trying to refinance a renewed bid, and Ashley feels he’s being frozen out, but has the cash to buy.

I’m told 2 other unnamed parties also want to buy club. Price for #dcfc now risen to over £30m because of interest payments, plus £22m for stadium. £50m+ would buy most Championship clubs, but Derby in Lg 1 still v attractive because of fan base and commercial potential.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, chinapig said:

More from Rob Dorsett. Note the price is now £30m:

Kirchner still adamant he wants to buy, money in European clearing bank, and he’s staying in UK to complete deal. Steve Morgan no longer interested, Andy Appleby trying to refinance a renewed bid, and Ashley feels he’s being frozen out, but has the cash to buy.

I’m told 2 other unnamed parties also want to buy club. Price for #dcfc now risen to over £30m because of interest payments, plus £22m for stadium. £50m+ would buy most Championship clubs, but Derby in Lg 1 still v attractive because of fan base and commercial potential.

I take it £30m doesn’t include the stadium?

[chinapig]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I take it £30m doesn’t include the stadium?

No, we assume a deal for the stadium has been done separately between Morris and the local guy whose name escapes me* but that won't go through unless and until a deal for the club is done.

So whoever buys the club now has to stump up even more.

*Edit: Clowes.

Edited June 11, 2022 by chinapig

[Dr Balls]

However much Derby as a business deserve everything and more, I am not sure that even Derby fans deserve this!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/11/mike-ashley-tells-derby-administrators-he-is-willing-and-ready-to-transact