Monkeh Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Nixon: 71 other members have the right to stick their noses in especially where competition and finances are involved, the members need to know if any rules are being broken and what punishment for said breaches Nixon is wrong 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Hxj said: Increasingly desperate ramblings in favour of his master. Though he seems to have stopped insisting that Kirchner's cheque is in the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Monkeh said: 71 other members have the right to stick their noses in especially where competition and finances are involved, the members need to know if any rules are being broken and what punishment for said breaches Nixon is wrong Absolutely . The rumours they may not have to pay the full tax bill. when smaller clubs have been wound up for less? All other Clubs that compete in the same competition have the right to know that all Clubs are treated exactly the same. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) re HMRC. Edited June 13, 2022 by Davefevs 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Hereford United has been wound up by a High Court judge. The winding-up petition was brought by HM Revenue and Customs, which is thought to be owed £116,000. Southend United have settled tax debts worth £493,931, with a winding-up petition against the League Two club dismissed in the High Court. Macclesfield Town Football Club has been wound up in the High Court in relation to debts The application for a winding up order came from HMRC, with the football club understood to owe close to £190,000 in taxes. Southend have paid their tax debt and a winding-up petition against them has been dismissed. The League Two club had been allowed more time to pay a debt of £493,991 to HM Revenue and Customs at an adjourned hearing in September. The fact that the HMRC have let the debt get to around £30m is a disgrace. By all means give them years to pay, but to let them off would give a massively unfair advantage to Derby. Even if it's an advantage they have squandered. 14 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) Goitta say the more I read of their forum and social media, the more I wouldn't care if Derby went pop- a high ratio of ignorant, arrogant bellends it would seem- we know that already but it is always good to have it reaffirmed. Especially in light of the mooted HMRC discount. OTOH some numbers- from their forum, good poster-, Ghost of Clough with the numbers as per easy enough to work out the maths from here. Helpfully it's been rounded for easy calculation. Quote Creditors are not far off these figures: HMRC - £36m MSD - £24m Transfer Fees - £8.4m Administrators - £3.5m (estimate) Unsecured Creditors - £3m 35% to unsecured creditors (£1m), whatever was agreed with HMRC (I'm guessing at 50% = £18m), and 100% of the rest. £55m for the lot. The 25% option would knock just £300k off the total. Doesn't make sense to do that when you can spread the payments out over 3 years instead. WITHOUT stadium, 35% in 3 years to the unsecured let's say would mean... HMRC- £12.6m Transfer fees- £8.4m Admin- £3.5m (estimate) Unsecured- £1.05m Making a total sans stadium of £25.55m- although Nixon has gone on before about £21.4m IIRC. This also in both calculations assumes no reduction in Transfer fees or Admin. 25% up front would be... HMRC- £9m Transfer fees- £8.4m Admin- £3.5m (estimate) Unsecured- £0.75m £21.65m. Ashley actually reportedly had a bid of £50m in the pipeline last winter albeit including stadium when the HMRC, MSD and admin fees would've been lower. That would comfortably have covered the minumum and the stadium with no risk of points deductions- and a bit more than the minimum as well. Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) This aspect has always intrigued me - taken from the Derby Fans forum. It still baffles me as to how Mel Morris was able to buy a stadium for £80m, but never transfer any funds to the club at all - as far as I understand it was simply an accounting transaction, but in reality we received no money and lost a stadium. We know he's been a bit underhand for a long time as our 'custodian' but I want all the skeletons. Is the answer that MM was/is owed millions by the football club as a result of his numerous loans, and has taken the stadium in part-payment (I understand the nuances of separating the stadium from the football club in case of future financial problems) or is there another reason(s)? Edited June 13, 2022 by PHILINFRANCE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 I also forgot to add, a penny for the thoughts of Quantuma about the EFL potentially getting involved... Birch v Andronikou again. Anyone for popcorn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) Good! Although Nixon so pinch of salt? I trust him on FFP matters for sure but dunno about the other stuff. Summary posted on the Derby forum of the Patreon point...I wondered when clubs would start to turn the screw a bit and no place in League Two if it fails is also sticking to the integrity of the system. I don't want Derby to go under- and I still stick to my bet of no liquidation- but at the same time there should be no short cuts or special favours. Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Good! Although Nixon so pinch of salt? I trust him on FFP matters for sure but dunno about the other stuff. Summary posted on the Derby forum of the Patreon point...I wondered when clubs would start to turn the screw a bit and no place in League Two if it fails is also sticking to the integrity of the system. They're trying to work out which individual clubs are angry. It doesn't seem to occur to them that it might be all 71, having no doubt discussed at the AGM. Nor does it occur to them that clubs may be angry that Derby are getting special treatment from HMRC that the rest of them don't get. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Just a thought - when the person paid the wages - did they do a 'Morris' in providing cash for the net wages only. If so money is needed by 22 June for the Administrators to pay the Tax/NIC. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Hxj said: Just a thought - when the person paid the wages - did they do a 'Morris' in providing cash for the net wages only. If so money is needed by 22 June for the Administrators to pay the Tax/NIC. £1.6m was mentioned by Nixon so that might cover tax, NIC etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said: This aspect has always intrigued me - taken from the Derby Fans forum. It still baffles me as to how Mel Morris was able to buy a stadium for £80m, but never transfer any funds to the club at all - as far as I understand it was simply an accounting transaction, but in reality we received no money and lost a stadium. We know he's been a bit underhand for a long time as our 'custodian' but I want all the skeletons. Is the answer that MM was/is owed millions by the football club as a result of his numerous loans, and has taken the stadium in part-payment (I understand the nuances of separating the stadium from the football club in case of future financial problems) or is there another reason(s)? That was what made the stadium "sale" so dodgy, as as ffp was concerned. As no actual money changed hands, it was, as you say, a paper transaction. This in turn meant that the sale was based not on an open market transaction, but what is termed in the mortgage industry a desk valuation. With no real market comparables it was wide open for the "professional and independent" valuation to be manipulated. Surprise, surprise Pride Park was valued at just the figure necessary to duck a ffp breach! The EFL were naively duped by Morris (when he had them on a string), in the same way as are referees by play acting and cheating players. Where's the £80m valuation now? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 4 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said: This aspect has always intrigued me - taken from the Derby Fans forum. It still baffles me as to how Mel Morris was able to buy a stadium for £80m, but never transfer any funds to the club at all - as far as I understand it was simply an accounting transaction, but in reality we received no money and lost a stadium. We know he's been a bit underhand for a long time as our 'custodian' but I want all the skeletons. Is the answer that MM was/is owed millions by the football club as a result of his numerous loans, and has taken the stadium in part-payment (I understand the nuances of separating the stadium from the football club in case of future financial problems) or is there another reason(s)? Simply an FFP / P&S transaction. The football club show a profit (difference between on book and inflated sale,) that year, the club's holding company loaned the money (sic) to the stadium company to 'buy' the stadium such as they were all under the same control it's a circular transaction. In theory the club's holding company is owed but added value was never there in the first place. Imagine selling a fine bottle of wine to your better half for quadruple it's market value, paid for with monies you've loaned. From a household perspective how much wealthier are you? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 hours ago, downendcity said: That was what made the stadium "sale" so dodgy, as as ffp was concerned. As no actual money changed hands, it was, as you say, a paper transaction. This in turn meant that the sale was based not on an open market transaction, but what is termed in the mortgage industry a desk valuation. With no real market comparables it was wide open for the "professional and independent" valuation to be manipulated. Surprise, surprise Pride Park was valued at just the figure necessary to duck a ffp breach! The EFL were naively duped by Morris (when he had them on a string), in the same way as are referees by play acting and cheating players. Where's the £80m valuation now? If you care to scroll back many pages I've explained several times in detail as to how the £81m figure was derived. In brief, it wasn't a market value as most imagine , rather a Depreciated Replacement Cost assessment (that wholly different from any mortgage based assessment.) DRCs are used for unusual, bespoke assets - visit the RICS website where they've dozens of technical papers explaining where these are appropriate and how they function. It's basically how much would it cost to rebuild what I've got? Problem being nobody ever bothers to rebuild as was, never happens as rather you'd always go for something more modern. It works for accounting and insurance purposes and also, as Morris exploited, to get around EFL FFP/P&S policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 I have just seen this clip on the Derby Fans forum. Their goalscorer looks quite a good player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 6 hours ago, Davefevs said: re HMRC. Oooh! On to threats now! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: If you care to scroll back many pages I've explained several times in detail as to how the £81m figure was derived. In brief, it wasn't a market value as most imagine , rather a Depreciated Replacement Cost assessment (that wholly different from any mortgage based assessment.) DRCs are used for unusual, bespoke assets - visit the RICS website where they've dozens of technical papers explaining where these are appropriate and how they function. It's basically how much would it cost to rebuild what I've got? Problem being nobody ever bothers to rebuild as was, never happens as rather you'd always go for something more modern. It works for accounting and insurance purposes and also, as Morris exploited, to get around EFL FFP/P&S policy. In fact, though I undoubtedly agree with the thrust of your post, there was some puzzlement there too- was the "Profits method" as opposed to DRC IIRC- this was a sticking point between club and EFL. DRC was £74.4m and for some unaccountable reason, the Profits method of £81.1m was upheld. DRC seems the only sensible method for this kinda transaction IMO. https://www.dcfc.co.uk/media/get/EFL Derby County Decision Document.pdf I get the DRC method but I struggle to see how the Profits method is that reliable- feels like it is rather open to fluctuation! From IDC 1. Is a long read- 123 pages- but there are bits on it, Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 More to the point: 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Hxj said: More to the point: Surely they won’t start that high 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 46 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said: Oooh! On to threats now! I read on the tweet thread someone saying how other clubs got a tax deduction. Leeds and Bolton were mentioned. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the extent of the tax avoidance here was at a time of national crisis, quite deliberately designed to utterly and unethically take advantage of a government policy to assist organizations through a difficult period. The comparison with other clubs is infuriating! If HMRC give them a break on any of that money, they better prepare themselves for the outcry. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: In fact, though I undoubtedly agree with the thrust of your post, there was some puzzlement there too- was the "Profits method" as opposed to DRC IIRC- this was a sticking point between club and EFL. DRC was £74.4m and for some unaccountable reason, the Profits method of £81.1m was upheld. DRC seems the only sensible method for this kinda transaction IMO. https://www.dcfc.co.uk/media/get/EFL Derby County Decision Document.pdf I get the DRC method but I struggle to see how the Profits method is that reliable- feels like it is rather open to fluctuation! From IDC 1. Is a long read- 123 pages- but there are bits on it, I think the test failed as although Derby cited a 'With Profits' figure based on non assured, impaired accounts, the clever lawyers managed to extract a range of DRC values based on the point I made, that nobody ever rebuilds as was, such there was a consideration for a DRC figure for what most likely would have been a replacement. The judgement looked at the lower and higher DRCs and the midpoint was slightly higher than the 'With Profits' figure Derby had used, therefore had to conclude the EFL hadn't proven the charge the stadium was over valued, though any sensible person knows that DRC is NOT a realistic market valuation, it's for accountancy and risk only. Derby won on semantics, not fact. For stuff like commercial buildings 'With Profits' is a very reliable measure, hence buildings values fluctuate dependant upon the quality of leases issued against them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: I think the test failed as although Derby cited a 'With Profits' figure based on non assured, impaired accounts, the clever lawyers managed to extract a range of DRC values based on the point I made, that nobody ever rebuilds as was, such there was a consideration for a DRC figure for what most likely would have been a replacement. The judgement looked at the lower and higher DRCs and the midpoint was slightly higher than the 'With Profits' figure Derby had used, therefore had to conclude the EFL hadn't proven the charge the stadium was over valued, though any sensible person knows that DRC is NOT a realistic market valuation, it's for accountancy and risk only. Derby won on semantics, not fact. For stuff like commercial buildings 'With Profits' is a very reliable measure, hence buildings values fluctuate dependant upon the quality of leases issued against them. Thanks- and that does make sense, not least as the valuer hired by Derby set a fair rent of £4.16m per season which is roughly in line with the 5% yield bracket- quality of lease, do you mean yield/return? Although Derby tried yet another trick which was £1.1m per year on days usage...certainly doubt the EFL have accepted that for P&S/FFP purposes- although the EFL had yet another valuation of about £50m but their hired valuer chose some crazy examples. They took an awful lot on face value in 2018 and 2019 which kinda tied their hands somewhat. I don't see why the EFL shouldn't insist on a paper rent of £4.16m per year being substituted in moving forward though for FFP purposes- after all a) Mel Morris still values it at £81.1m and b) The Independent Valuer hired by Derby gave that number. Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Funds didn’t arrive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Over to Nixon now...see if he contradicts or confirms! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSSEL85 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Over to Nixon now...see if he contradicts or confirms! This is now official, SSN confirmed he has withdrawn his offer. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Londoner Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 What’s amused me the last couple of days is how many people claimed to be in the know of his bank account 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Lot of back tracking from nixon me thinks, And basically Derby have 2 weeks to complete a takeover, and as they are desperate, it won't be on favourable terms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Over to Nixon now...see if he contradicts or confirms! Well, that was totally unexpected. Who would have guessed? Not Nixon for sure who may now lose an awful lot of Derby based Patreon subscribers. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) Is -15 incoming now? Will the EFL's preferred business plan be acceptable to any or all prospective bidders? Remember that along with Football creditors being paid in full, accepting what monitoring and oversight the EFL consider necessary, and potentially the bits about unsecured creditors, HMRC getting minimum payment is quite important for EFL approval... Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 They`re ****** aren`t they? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) In theory no, they have- 10 days is it- until the fixtures are out. Can it go beyond that? Must be no bending of rules though- the rules are the rules that bind us all. Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Ok. I think we need to be very clear what we mean when we are saying that a club has been expelled from the EFL. It's a pretty serious thing, and getting it wrong will lead to all sorts of incorrect conclusions about the state Derby are in. 9 hours ago, BTRFTG said: I believe the EFL view membership as somewhat more than simply holding a (largely symbolic) share. This is about the black and white (together?) of the Articles of Association of The Football League Limited (and related Regulations). Ownership of a share in the The Football League Limited is not symbolic at all, it is the membership ticket that allows a club to participate in the division it is in, to play matches, and to benefit from prize money and other financial distributions. This is why any potential buyer wants to buy the entity to which the share is issued. If a share was symbolic only then one could simply purchase the badge, the IP, maybe the stadium, and have player contracts assigned from that entity, and then participate in the competitions organised by EFL. But that's not the case because Articles and the Regulations say that a 'Member Club' is a club that is a shareholder (although they use the word Member) of The Football League Limited - so an entity can only be a member if you are a shareholder of that company. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: Recall one can't gift or pass the share to anyone (that requires EFL approval,) Correct. Article 6 is a pretty standard form article prohibiting the transfer of any share without the approval of the Board of the EFL. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: when exiting the EFL either way one has to cede the share (no choice in the matter,) Kind of. If by 'EFL' you mean The Football League Limited then of course, when promoted from the Championship or relegated from League 2, a club may - under Regulation 4.1 - resign from membership of The Football League Limited at the end of a season. Resigning in any other way activates the indemnity in Regulation 4.2. The actual obligation on The Football League Limited to accept these resignations is in Regulations 7.7, 7.8, and 10 - those conditions are long and dull but essentially The Football League Limited promise to honour promotion and relegation by enabling the issue and repurchase of such shares as are necessary. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: the share may be removed via the expulsion process. Yes, as set out in my earlier post. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: once in administration one's membership (though not technically share at that point,) is removed. No. Ownership of a share is membership and it's not possible to separate the two concepts. Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) is under Notice that the Board of the The Football League Limited intend to force them to sell their share - the share currently held by Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) - for 5p. That Notice of Withdrawal is referred to in the statement from yesterday "The EFL has today informed the Administrators at Derby County that...it is changing the terms of the suspended Notice of Withdrawal issued when the Club entered into administration in September 2021." and "The suspension of the Notice of Withdrawal of the Club’s share in the EFL is subject to conditions that, in accordance with the League’s insolvency policy, the EFL Board determine...". Both these are consistent with the procedure I set out, as it is set out within the articles of The Football League Limited. This is also clear that a) a Notice has been issued, but b) it is suspended. The Notice is suspended, not the membership. Furthermore, anecdotally Derby County Football Club (in administration) must have still held (and still does hold) a valid membership after entering administration. If it did not, if it were expelled at the point at which it entered administration, then under the articles and Regulations it had no right to compete in any EFL competition since September 2021. Yet it did. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: From yesterday's statement I'm not sure the EFL might think Q 'fit and proper' but that's moot given, if I remember correctly, Q will have no power or influence within the EFL membership. The Joint Administrators would each individually almost certainly pass the Owners and Directors test. All three are licensed insolvency practitioners and so, given that registration is onerous as well, are unlikely to have been involved in any Disqualifying Event. The Joint Administrators control a company that holds a share in The Football League Limited. So they do have some power - they control one vote out of the 72 that could feasibly be cast in any EFL vote. 10 hours ago, BTRFTG said: Consider also the extraordinary powers the EFL exerted yesterday, setting mandatory constraints on how the administrators MUST act. Wouldn't happen elsewhere in business but I think they are able to do so under the membership powers (i.e. if you don't like it you don't have to be a member of this group.) As I said, and as the EFL say in their statement, these powers are imposed under the conditions of the Notice of Withdrawal - ie under article 4.8 of the articles of association. "...the EFL has informed the Administrators that there will be a revision to the conditions attached to the suspension and the EFL is now to be made a party to all correspondence and discussions between the Administrators, and any and all potential bidders, with an acknowledgment that the League will be able to negotiate directly in relation to matters concerning the transfer of the share in the EFL." It is pretty clear. It also supports the argument that Derby County Football Club Ltd remains a Member Club as if it was not a Member Club then it would no longer be bound by article 4.8 and so could simply ignore the EFL's changes to the Notice of Withdrawal...because it would already have been withdrawn from the register of shareholders of the Football League Limited. In the absence of documentary evidence to the contrary we have to go with the legal structure set out in the articles and Regulations. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 It looks as if I may have been a little slow in posting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, Monkeh said: Lot of back tracking from nixon me thinks, And basically Derby have 2 weeks to complete a takeover, and as they are desperate, it won't be on favourable terms Ashley or bust, then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 21 minutes ago, chinapig said: Not Nixon for sure who may now lose an awful lot of Derby based Patreon subscribers. Haha, great mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveF Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Kirchner's has withdrawn his bid: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12633357/chris-kirchner-withdraws-derby-county-bid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DaveF said: Kirchner's has withdrawn his bid: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12633357/chris-kirchner-withdraws-derby-county-bid Also on BBC. I take it his takeover and funds transfer are no longer imminent. Edited June 13, 2022 by Sir Geoff Change text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, DaveF said: Kirchner's has withdrawn his bid: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12633357/chris-kirchner-withdraws-derby-county-bid Right. Onto 'ze list' with him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said: I take it his takeover and funds transfer are no longer imminent. Incorrect - it is still imminent - and will always be so! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 It's to be hoped that the efl are following the advice on otib! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Has Ze List been updated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, billywedlock said: Well , no shock there . I have to blame Quantuma here . There was good reason I said , way back , let’s see the money when CK came back on the scene . If I was aware of those shortcomings , then what sort of due diligence did they do with the extensive network they could have verified with ? This is exactly as it was always going to pan out . I have no idea what CK was on , or what games he was playing . But I do know he did not have the money . IMHO this is better news for Derby , because if by some miracle he has found the first payments , Derby would have been back in admin within a year is my forecast . sell to Ashley , he will build it up and sell when he gets them to the Prem . They need someone who has real money . Watch the mess Birmingham are now heading into with their takeover . That will not end well either imho. He is a crypto bro, as soon as the bottom fell put of the market his finances dried up 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, TomF said: Today probably finished him. Massive Cyrptocrash Been a few of those lately, Wasn't bitcoin worth 64k a couple of months back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 37 minutes ago, REDOXO said: Has Ze List been updated? The new and improved official Derby County blame list: 1. The EFL 2. Steve Gibson 3. Neil Bausor 4. Middlesbrough 5. Rob Couhig 6. Wycombe 7. Covid 8. The ticket office 9. The HMRC 10. Nicholas Randall 11. Trevor Birch 12. Darren Bent 13. Steve McClaren 14. Danny Higginbotham 15. Richard Keogh 16. The European Super League 17. Sky Sports 18. The Football League paper 19. Burton Albion 20. Derby City Council 21. Mind (the mental health charity) 22. Opposition fans 23. The taxpayer 24. Derby's creditors 25. Forest fans that sit in the Upper Bridgford 26. Rick Parry 27. Brice Samba 28. Jack Colback 29. Simon Jordan 30. ITV Digital 31. Setanta 32. Brian Clough 33. Juventus 34. Tim Robinson 35. Lewis Grabban 36. Brennan Johnson 37. Kenny Burns 38. Nigel Clough 39. Billy Davies 40. LTLF 41. Rockabilly and his curse 42. Derby fans (whilst also being blameless at the same time) 43. Stan Collymore 44. Leeds United 45. Ed Dawes 46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL) 47. Scott McKenna (for heading aeroplanes away that may contain investors, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 48. OK SpidermAndy! (for upsetting Derby fans by querying how long it will be before Derby fans nick Liverpool's "You'll Never Walk Alone" chant) 49. John Percy 50. Rob Dorsett 51. FFSForest (a Twitter user who pointed out how the absence of Derby's "unreal" supporters this season has cost them around £5m, which would help them complete the season. Clearly an EFL stooge!) 52. 166,000 empty seats (probably the fault of the seat manufacturer, rather than their "unreal" fans though) 53. Forest selling players to Olympiacos 54. Liverpool fans, Sheffield police and the Hillsboro/Govt report (making stadiums all seater prevented them from selling 60k every game) 55. Lyle Taylor 56. Adrian Durham 57. Luke Plange and Crystal Palace 58. Matt Donohue 59. Duane Holmes 60. Beardo7 and his £10 bet 61. Holland & Barrett 62. Bobby Zamora 63. Goalposts 64. Kim Leck 65. Aston Villa 66. Myself 67. The Mysterons 68. Captain Black 69. Shaggy 70. The Queen 71. RealRed85 72. Billingham Synthonia FC 73. Text messages 74. Congo_red (for daring to use facts) 75. Chevin Homes (the "preferred" partner in property) 76. Gianluca Di Marzio 77. Pozzo family (Udinese/Watford) 78. Brexit 79. Derby's Category 1 academy 80. Adam Hart-Davis 81. Birmingham City fans 82. Derby forum users Gritstone Tup and Mucker1884 (for breaking away from the hive mind and going against the narrative) 83. Chris Kirchner 84. Chris Doidge (blasphemous BBC Radio Derby presenter) 85. Daniel Taylor 86. Hasbro 87. From Software 88. Atari 89. 32 Red 90. Sheffield Wednesday fans 91. Bouncer the dog 92. Sam Longson 93. Alcohol 94. Leicester City 95. MaxiRobriguez 96. The MLS 97. The Joiners Arms in Quarndon 98. Highways England 99. Middlesbrough fans bringing facts onto Derby's forum 100. Ze list 101. Darren Huckerby 102. Del Boy and Rodney 103. Harry Enfield 104. Jeremy Simpson 105. Mason Bennett 106. Tom Lawrence 107. Ball boys 108. Scott Malone 109. Tubby pitch invaders 110. Kenny Loggins 111. Nathan Thompson 112. Vladimir Putin 113. MPs 114. "Fake" deadlines 115. The Derby Telegraph 116. The Twitter user @derbyram76 (aka Leitrim Ram) (for creating his own version of ze list) 117. Boris Johnson 118. Daleks 119. Derbyshire Mortgage Services (blasphemous mortgage firm) 120. Pancake day 121. Doctor Who and their companions 122. I'm Red Till Dead 123. BBC Radio Derby 124. Colin Fray 125. Uche Ikpeazu 126. Sky Bet 127. Mitchell and Webb 128. Cardiff City fans 129. Bungle from Rainbow (his coke addiction is causing confusion in the Quantuma offices, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 130. Notcher 131. Whoever at Nottingham Forest is asking the EFL to lobby FIFA to let players at Russian clubs walk away from their contracts 132. Chelsea 133. DC Comics 134. Preston North End 135. Billy Joel 136. Igor Novikov 137. Ben Smyth (treacherous "Derby fan" on Twitter slandering Derby's "amazing" supporters) 138. Joel Moore (another Derby traitor on Twitter who is going against the "Fight 'till the end" narrative) 139. Lech Poznan (for having the audacity to ask for money owed to them) 140. Kieran Maguire 141. Truth 142. HBB 143. Evangelos Marinakis 144. David (moderator on the DCFC Fans forum) 145. "Interested parties" 146. Club 84 (a Twitter user who posted a blasphemous image) 147. Alan Nixon 148. Matt Slater 149. Coventry City 150. The sun 151. Jack Marriott 152. The Sex Pistols 153. QPR 154. The Bristol City Forum OTIB 155. Secret squirrels 156. FiveThirtyEight's Super Computer 157. Mr Magoo 158. Douglas Adams 159. Philip Madoc 160. Will Smith and Chris Rock 161. Fawaz Al-Hasawi 162. Hans Von Dunkelroter 163. The Clash 164. Mr Popodopolous 165. The awkward "preferred bidder" 166. Everyone on page 1000 of this thread 167. Strummer 168. India Willoughby 169. Narcissists 170. Reading FC 171. Paul Ince 172. Status Quo 173. Agent Penguin 174. Sam Surridge 175. Joao Carvalho 176. Stoke City 177. Buildabonfire177 178. No Limits Sports Limited 179. 2 Unlimited 180. Golf 181. Obi Wan Kenobi 182. LTLF mods 183. Eddie Yates 184. Peter Ridsdale 185. Guy Moussi 186. RichNFFC's daughter 187. Zak Goulding (PNE fan on Twitter who has upset Derby's new messiah) 188. Alan Hinton 189. Red flags 190. Nathan Tyson 191. Trents 192. Common sense 193. Acrobat 194. ShakeyRed 195. Other teams getting results 196. Baba Rahman 197. Fulham fans 198. Buildabonfire177's friend 199. Rules 200. Luke Amos and Tom McIntyre 201. Captain Sinister 202. Paul Merson 203. Domino's Pizza 204. Jeff Hendrick 205. Accrington Stanley 206. West Brom fans 207. Jimtastic56 (blasphemous poster on Derby's forum criticising "heroic Derby" for their shit away form) 208. Mr Blonde 209. Wigan Athletic 210. EFL Rule 14.3.2 211. Forestjones (for asking for Derby's relegation as a birthday present on Easter Monday) 212. Gene Wilder 213. Ichthyostega 214. People voting Kelle Roos as Derby's Player of the Season (and the lazy, amateurish coding that enables people to do so multiple times) 215. Tombo (Derby fan committing an act of treason) 216. "Jamie" (@dingjme) (a Reading fan who has upset some of our sensitive friends down the road) 217. Flagman 218. Bobby (a QPR fan on Derby's forum bringing that pesky reality thing into their dreamworld again) 219. Football Post (for making Crewton on the Derby forum cry) 220. Rzarecteh 221. Malcolm Ebiowei 222. Ramstrust and BAWT 223. Belefonte (also made Crewton cry) 224. Forest fans at Peterborough (more crying from Crewton) 225. Erik 226. Size 11 font and Harvard referencing 227. Gamble 228. Wred 229. Winnits 230. Lack of VAR in the Championship (robbing Derby of 30 points!) 231. Tiff 232. Brian Potter 233. Demetrius Andrade 234. Thomas Tuchel 235. Death Cab for Cutie 236. Detroit City FC 237. Colleen Rooney 238. Hugh Tomlinson QC 239. Forest Scaffolding Nottingham Ltd 240. Famous Forestzoe 241. Czeslaw Michniewicz 242. Jeremy Corbyn 243. Rockabilly's flag 244. Augustus 245. Long Eaton Tesco 246. Mrs Beardo7 247. Levi Samuels Colwill 248. Steve Cooper 249. Jonathan Moss 250. Aladdin's lamp 251. EmmersonForest4 252. Transport for London 253. "The gap" 254. Sadiq Khan 255. Meateatingvegan (PNE fan picking on poor little Derby) 256. Depeche Mode 257. East Midlands news 258. Ian Redfern (treacherous and blasphemous Derby fan) 259. Memorial Day/Bank Holidays 260. Glassdoor 261. Manic Street Preachers 262. "Ze list" episode of Dad's Army 263. Gold (channel showing "ze list" episode) 264. jimbobram (Derby fan breaking away from the hive mind) 265. Rafa Nadal 266. The financial police 267. Bury AFC 268. Ramsbottom United 269. Silverdale 270. People being mean to Quantuma 271. James Hooton 272. Emmerdale 273. CBX1985 274. Le Juif Rouge (and his dastardly plans to turn Pride Park into a Sports Direct warehouse) 275. Other EFL clubs 276. Buckeye (poisonous to sheep!) 2 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 34 minutes ago, billywedlock said: Well , no shock there . I have to blame Quantuma here . There was good reason I said , way back , let’s see the money when CK came back on the scene . If I was aware of those shortcomings , then what sort of due diligence did they do with the extensive network they could have verified with ? This is exactly as it was always going to pan out . I have no idea what CK was on , or what games he was playing . But I do know he did not have the money . IMHO this is better news for Derby , because if by some miracle he has found the first payments , Derby would have been back in admin within a year is my forecast . sell to Ashley , he will build it up and sell when he gets them to the Prem . They need someone who has real money . Watch the mess Birmingham are now heading into with their takeover . That will not end well either imho. yes, listening to Price of Football pod this morning, KM couldn't believe they'd had CK as preferred bidder, after all the shenanigans with DCFC and PNE, and DCFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSSEL85 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Marvin said: The new and improved official Derby County blame list: 1. The EFL 2. Steve Gibson 3. Neil Bausor 4. Middlesbrough 5. Rob Couhig 6. Wycombe 7. Covid 8. The ticket office 9. The HMRC 10. Nicholas Randall 11. Trevor Birch 12. Darren Bent 13. Steve McClaren 14. Danny Higginbotham 15. Richard Keogh 16. The European Super League 17. Sky Sports 18. The Football League paper 19. Burton Albion 20. Derby City Council 21. Mind (the mental health charity) 22. Opposition fans 23. The taxpayer 24. Derby's creditors 25. Forest fans that sit in the Upper Bridgford 26. Rick Parry 27. Brice Samba 28. Jack Colback 29. Simon Jordan 30. ITV Digital 31. Setanta 32. Brian Clough 33. Juventus 34. Tim Robinson 35. Lewis Grabban 36. Brennan Johnson 37. Kenny Burns 38. Nigel Clough 39. Billy Davies 40. LTLF 41. Rockabilly and his curse 42. Derby fans (whilst also being blameless at the same time) 43. Stan Collymore 44. Leeds United 45. Ed Dawes 46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL) 47. Scott McKenna (for heading aeroplanes away that may contain investors, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 48. OK SpidermAndy! (for upsetting Derby fans by querying how long it will be before Derby fans nick Liverpool's "You'll Never Walk Alone" chant) 49. John Percy 50. Rob Dorsett 51. FFSForest (a Twitter user who pointed out how the absence of Derby's "unreal" supporters this season has cost them around £5m, which would help them complete the season. Clearly an EFL stooge!) 52. 166,000 empty seats (probably the fault of the seat manufacturer, rather than their "unreal" fans though) 53. Forest selling players to Olympiacos 54. Liverpool fans, Sheffield police and the Hillsboro/Govt report (making stadiums all seater prevented them from selling 60k every game) 55. Lyle Taylor 56. Adrian Durham 57. Luke Plange and Crystal Palace 58. Matt Donohue 59. Duane Holmes 60. Beardo7 and his £10 bet 61. Holland & Barrett 62. Bobby Zamora 63. Goalposts 64. Kim Leck 65. Aston Villa 66. Myself 67. The Mysterons 68. Captain Black 69. Shaggy 70. The Queen 71. RealRed85 72. Billingham Synthonia FC 73. Text messages 74. Congo_red (for daring to use facts) 75. Chevin Homes (the "preferred" partner in property) 76. Gianluca Di Marzio 77. Pozzo family (Udinese/Watford) 78. Brexit 79. Derby's Category 1 academy 80. Adam Hart-Davis 81. Birmingham City fans 82. Derby forum users Gritstone Tup and Mucker1884 (for breaking away from the hive mind and going against the narrative) 83. Chris Kirchner 84. Chris Doidge (blasphemous BBC Radio Derby presenter) 85. Daniel Taylor 86. Hasbro 87. From Software 88. Atari 89. 32 Red 90. Sheffield Wednesday fans 91. Bouncer the dog 92. Sam Longson 93. Alcohol 94. Leicester City 95. MaxiRobriguez 96. The MLS 97. The Joiners Arms in Quarndon 98. Highways England 99. Middlesbrough fans bringing facts onto Derby's forum 100. Ze list 101. Darren Huckerby 102. Del Boy and Rodney 103. Harry Enfield 104. Jeremy Simpson 105. Mason Bennett 106. Tom Lawrence 107. Ball boys 108. Scott Malone 109. Tubby pitch invaders 110. Kenny Loggins 111. Nathan Thompson 112. Vladimir Putin 113. MPs 114. "Fake" deadlines 115. The Derby Telegraph 116. The Twitter user @derbyram76 (aka Leitrim Ram) (for creating his own version of ze list) 117. Boris Johnson 118. Daleks 119. Derbyshire Mortgage Services (blasphemous mortgage firm) 120. Pancake day 121. Doctor Who and their companions 122. I'm Red Till Dead 123. BBC Radio Derby 124. Colin Fray 125. Uche Ikpeazu 126. Sky Bet 127. Mitchell and Webb 128. Cardiff City fans 129. Bungle from Rainbow (his coke addiction is causing confusion in the Quantuma offices, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 130. Notcher 131. Whoever at Nottingham Forest is asking the EFL to lobby FIFA to let players at Russian clubs walk away from their contracts 132. Chelsea 133. DC Comics 134. Preston North End 135. Billy Joel 136. Igor Novikov 137. Ben Smyth (treacherous "Derby fan" on Twitter slandering Derby's "amazing" supporters) 138. Joel Moore (another Derby traitor on Twitter who is going against the "Fight 'till the end" narrative) 139. Lech Poznan (for having the audacity to ask for money owed to them) 140. Kieran Maguire 141. Truth 142. HBB 143. Evangelos Marinakis 144. David (moderator on the DCFC Fans forum) 145. "Interested parties" 146. Club 84 (a Twitter user who posted a blasphemous image) 147. Alan Nixon 148. Matt Slater 149. Coventry City 150. The sun 151. Jack Marriott 152. The Sex Pistols 153. QPR 154. The Bristol City Forum OTIB 155. Secret squirrels 156. FiveThirtyEight's Super Computer 157. Mr Magoo 158. Douglas Adams 159. Philip Madoc 160. Will Smith and Chris Rock 161. Fawaz Al-Hasawi 162. Hans Von Dunkelroter 163. The Clash 164. Mr Popodopolous 165. The awkward "preferred bidder" 166. Everyone on page 1000 of this thread 167. Strummer 168. India Willoughby 169. Narcissists 170. Reading FC 171. Paul Ince 172. Status Quo 173. Agent Penguin 174. Sam Surridge 175. Joao Carvalho 176. Stoke City 177. Buildabonfire177 178. No Limits Sports Limited 179. 2 Unlimited 180. Golf 181. Obi Wan Kenobi 182. LTLF mods 183. Eddie Yates 184. Peter Ridsdale 185. Guy Moussi 186. RichNFFC's daughter 187. Zak Goulding (PNE fan on Twitter who has upset Derby's new messiah) 188. Alan Hinton 189. Red flags 190. Nathan Tyson 191. Trents 192. Common sense 193. Acrobat 194. ShakeyRed 195. Other teams getting results 196. Baba Rahman 197. Fulham fans 198. Buildabonfire177's friend 199. Rules 200. Luke Amos and Tom McIntyre 201. Captain Sinister 202. Paul Merson 203. Domino's Pizza 204. Jeff Hendrick 205. Accrington Stanley 206. West Brom fans 207. Jimtastic56 (blasphemous poster on Derby's forum criticising "heroic Derby" for their shit away form) 208. Mr Blonde 209. Wigan Athletic 210. EFL Rule 14.3.2 211. Forestjones (for asking for Derby's relegation as a birthday present on Easter Monday) 212. Gene Wilder 213. Ichthyostega 214. People voting Kelle Roos as Derby's Player of the Season (and the lazy, amateurish coding that enables people to do so multiple times) 215. Tombo (Derby fan committing an act of treason) 216. "Jamie" (@dingjme) (a Reading fan who has upset some of our sensitive friends down the road) 217. Flagman 218. Bobby (a QPR fan on Derby's forum bringing that pesky reality thing into their dreamworld again) 219. Football Post (for making Crewton on the Derby forum cry) 220. Rzarecteh 221. Malcolm Ebiowei 222. Ramstrust and BAWT 223. Belefonte (also made Crewton cry) 224. Forest fans at Peterborough (more crying from Crewton) 225. Erik 226. Size 11 font and Harvard referencing 227. Gamble 228. Wred 229. Winnits 230. Lack of VAR in the Championship (robbing Derby of 30 points!) 231. Tiff 232. Brian Potter 233. Demetrius Andrade 234. Thomas Tuchel 235. Death Cab for Cutie 236. Detroit City FC 237. Colleen Rooney 238. Hugh Tomlinson QC 239. Forest Scaffolding Nottingham Ltd 240. Famous Forestzoe 241. Czeslaw Michniewicz 242. Jeremy Corbyn 243. Rockabilly's flag 244. Augustus 245. Long Eaton Tesco 246. Mrs Beardo7 247. Levi Samuels Colwill 248. Steve Cooper 249. Jonathan Moss 250. Aladdin's lamp 251. EmmersonForest4 252. Transport for London 253. "The gap" 254. Sadiq Khan 255. Meateatingvegan (PNE fan picking on poor little Derby) 256. Depeche Mode 257. East Midlands news 258. Ian Redfern (treacherous and blasphemous Derby fan) 259. Memorial Day/Bank Holidays 260. Glassdoor 261. Manic Street Preachers 262. "Ze list" episode of Dad's Army 263. Gold (channel showing "ze list" episode) 264. jimbobram (Derby fan breaking away from the hive mind) 265. Rafa Nadal 266. The financial police 267. Bury AFC 268. Ramsbottom United 269. Silverdale 270. People being mean to Quantuma 271. James Hooton 272. Emmerdale 273. CBX1985 274. Le Juif Rouge (and his dastardly plans to turn Pride Park into a Sports Direct warehouse) 275. Other EFL clubs 276. Buckeye (poisonous to sheep!) I read 31 as Santa for a minute, maybe he should be number 277! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Marvin said: The new and improved official Derby County blame list: 1. The EFL 2. Steve Gibson 3. Neil Bausor 4. Middlesbrough 5. Rob Couhig 6. Wycombe 7. Covid 8. The ticket office 9. The HMRC 10. Nicholas Randall 11. Trevor Birch 12. Darren Bent 13. Steve McClaren 14. Danny Higginbotham 15. Richard Keogh 16. The European Super League 17. Sky Sports 18. The Football League paper 19. Burton Albion 20. Derby City Council 21. Mind (the mental health charity) 22. Opposition fans 23. The taxpayer 24. Derby's creditors 25. Forest fans that sit in the Upper Bridgford 26. Rick Parry 27. Brice Samba 28. Jack Colback 29. Simon Jordan 30. ITV Digital 31. Setanta 32. Brian Clough 33. Juventus 34. Tim Robinson 35. Lewis Grabban 36. Brennan Johnson 37. Kenny Burns 38. Nigel Clough 39. Billy Davies 40. LTLF 41. Rockabilly and his curse 42. Derby fans (whilst also being blameless at the same time) 43. Stan Collymore 44. Leeds United 45. Ed Dawes 46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL) 47. Scott McKenna (for heading aeroplanes away that may contain investors, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 48. OK SpidermAndy! (for upsetting Derby fans by querying how long it will be before Derby fans nick Liverpool's "You'll Never Walk Alone" chant) 49. John Percy 50. Rob Dorsett 51. FFSForest (a Twitter user who pointed out how the absence of Derby's "unreal" supporters this season has cost them around £5m, which would help them complete the season. Clearly an EFL stooge!) 52. 166,000 empty seats (probably the fault of the seat manufacturer, rather than their "unreal" fans though) 53. Forest selling players to Olympiacos 54. Liverpool fans, Sheffield police and the Hillsboro/Govt report (making stadiums all seater prevented them from selling 60k every game) 55. Lyle Taylor 56. Adrian Durham 57. Luke Plange and Crystal Palace 58. Matt Donohue 59. Duane Holmes 60. Beardo7 and his £10 bet 61. Holland & Barrett 62. Bobby Zamora 63. Goalposts 64. Kim Leck 65. Aston Villa 66. Myself 67. The Mysterons 68. Captain Black 69. Shaggy 70. The Queen 71. RealRed85 72. Billingham Synthonia FC 73. Text messages 74. Congo_red (for daring to use facts) 75. Chevin Homes (the "preferred" partner in property) 76. Gianluca Di Marzio 77. Pozzo family (Udinese/Watford) 78. Brexit 79. Derby's Category 1 academy 80. Adam Hart-Davis 81. Birmingham City fans 82. Derby forum users Gritstone Tup and Mucker1884 (for breaking away from the hive mind and going against the narrative) 83. Chris Kirchner 84. Chris Doidge (blasphemous BBC Radio Derby presenter) 85. Daniel Taylor 86. Hasbro 87. From Software 88. Atari 89. 32 Red 90. Sheffield Wednesday fans 91. Bouncer the dog 92. Sam Longson 93. Alcohol 94. Leicester City 95. MaxiRobriguez 96. The MLS 97. The Joiners Arms in Quarndon 98. Highways England 99. Middlesbrough fans bringing facts onto Derby's forum 100. Ze list 101. Darren Huckerby 102. Del Boy and Rodney 103. Harry Enfield 104. Jeremy Simpson 105. Mason Bennett 106. Tom Lawrence 107. Ball boys 108. Scott Malone 109. Tubby pitch invaders 110. Kenny Loggins 111. Nathan Thompson 112. Vladimir Putin 113. MPs 114. "Fake" deadlines 115. The Derby Telegraph 116. The Twitter user @derbyram76 (aka Leitrim Ram) (for creating his own version of ze list) 117. Boris Johnson 118. Daleks 119. Derbyshire Mortgage Services (blasphemous mortgage firm) 120. Pancake day 121. Doctor Who and their companions 122. I'm Red Till Dead 123. BBC Radio Derby 124. Colin Fray 125. Uche Ikpeazu 126. Sky Bet 127. Mitchell and Webb 128. Cardiff City fans 129. Bungle from Rainbow (his coke addiction is causing confusion in the Quantuma offices, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 130. Notcher 131. Whoever at Nottingham Forest is asking the EFL to lobby FIFA to let players at Russian clubs walk away from their contracts 132. Chelsea 133. DC Comics 134. Preston North End 135. Billy Joel 136. Igor Novikov 137. Ben Smyth (treacherous "Derby fan" on Twitter slandering Derby's "amazing" supporters) 138. Joel Moore (another Derby traitor on Twitter who is going against the "Fight 'till the end" narrative) 139. Lech Poznan (for having the audacity to ask for money owed to them) 140. Kieran Maguire 141. Truth 142. HBB 143. Evangelos Marinakis 144. David (moderator on the DCFC Fans forum) 145. "Interested parties" 146. Club 84 (a Twitter user who posted a blasphemous image) 147. Alan Nixon 148. Matt Slater 149. Coventry City 150. The sun 151. Jack Marriott 152. The Sex Pistols 153. QPR 154. The Bristol City Forum OTIB 155. Secret squirrels 156. FiveThirtyEight's Super Computer 157. Mr Magoo 158. Douglas Adams 159. Philip Madoc 160. Will Smith and Chris Rock 161. Fawaz Al-Hasawi 162. Hans Von Dunkelroter 163. The Clash 164. Mr Popodopolous 165. The awkward "preferred bidder" 166. Everyone on page 1000 of this thread 167. Strummer 168. India Willoughby 169. Narcissists 170. Reading FC 171. Paul Ince 172. Status Quo 173. Agent Penguin 174. Sam Surridge 175. Joao Carvalho 176. Stoke City 177. Buildabonfire177 178. No Limits Sports Limited 179. 2 Unlimited 180. Golf 181. Obi Wan Kenobi 182. LTLF mods 183. Eddie Yates 184. Peter Ridsdale 185. Guy Moussi 186. RichNFFC's daughter 187. Zak Goulding (PNE fan on Twitter who has upset Derby's new messiah) 188. Alan Hinton 189. Red flags 190. Nathan Tyson 191. Trents 192. Common sense 193. Acrobat 194. ShakeyRed 195. Other teams getting results 196. Baba Rahman 197. Fulham fans 198. Buildabonfire177's friend 199. Rules 200. Luke Amos and Tom McIntyre 201. Captain Sinister 202. Paul Merson 203. Domino's Pizza 204. Jeff Hendrick 205. Accrington Stanley 206. West Brom fans 207. Jimtastic56 (blasphemous poster on Derby's forum criticising "heroic Derby" for their shit away form) 208. Mr Blonde 209. Wigan Athletic 210. EFL Rule 14.3.2 211. Forestjones (for asking for Derby's relegation as a birthday present on Easter Monday) 212. Gene Wilder 213. Ichthyostega 214. People voting Kelle Roos as Derby's Player of the Season (and the lazy, amateurish coding that enables people to do so multiple times) 215. Tombo (Derby fan committing an act of treason) 216. "Jamie" (@dingjme) (a Reading fan who has upset some of our sensitive friends down the road) 217. Flagman 218. Bobby (a QPR fan on Derby's forum bringing that pesky reality thing into their dreamworld again) 219. Football Post (for making Crewton on the Derby forum cry) 220. Rzarecteh 221. Malcolm Ebiowei 222. Ramstrust and BAWT 223. Belefonte (also made Crewton cry) 224. Forest fans at Peterborough (more crying from Crewton) 225. Erik 226. Size 11 font and Harvard referencing 227. Gamble 228. Wred 229. Winnits 230. Lack of VAR in the Championship (robbing Derby of 30 points!) 231. Tiff 232. Brian Potter 233. Demetrius Andrade 234. Thomas Tuchel 235. Death Cab for Cutie 236. Detroit City FC 237. Colleen Rooney 238. Hugh Tomlinson QC 239. Forest Scaffolding Nottingham Ltd 240. Famous Forestzoe 241. Czeslaw Michniewicz 242. Jeremy Corbyn 243. Rockabilly's flag 244. Augustus 245. Long Eaton Tesco 246. Mrs Beardo7 247. Levi Samuels Colwill 248. Steve Cooper 249. Jonathan Moss 250. Aladdin's lamp 251. EmmersonForest4 252. Transport for London 253. "The gap" 254. Sadiq Khan 255. Meateatingvegan (PNE fan picking on poor little Derby) 256. Depeche Mode 257. East Midlands news 258. Ian Redfern (treacherous and blasphemous Derby fan) 259. Memorial Day/Bank Holidays 260. Glassdoor 261. Manic Street Preachers 262. "Ze list" episode of Dad's Army 263. Gold (channel showing "ze list" episode) 264. jimbobram (Derby fan breaking away from the hive mind) 265. Rafa Nadal 266. The financial police 267. Bury AFC 268. Ramsbottom United 269. Silverdale 270. People being mean to Quantuma 271. James Hooton 272. Emmerdale 273. CBX1985 274. Le Juif Rouge (and his dastardly plans to turn Pride Park into a Sports Direct warehouse) 275. Other EFL clubs 276. Buckeye (poisonous to sheep!) Thanks! I don’t see CK! Cmon Ze List admins keep up! Edited June 13, 2022 by REDOXO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: Ok. I think we need to be very clear what we mean when we are saying that a club has been expelled from the EFL. It's a pretty serious thing, and getting it wrong will lead to all sorts of incorrect conclusions about the state Derby are in. This is about the black and white (together?) of the Articles of Association of The Football League Limited (and related Regulations). Ownership of a share in the The Football League Limited is not symbolic at all, it is the membership ticket that allows a club to participate in the division it is in, to play matches, and to benefit from prize money and other financial distributions. This is why any potential buyer wants to buy the entity to which the share is issued. If a share was symbolic only then one could simply purchase the badge, the IP, maybe the stadium, and have player contracts assigned from that entity, and then participate in the competitions organised by EFL. But that's not the case because Articles and the Regulations say that a 'Member Club' is a club that is a shareholder (although they use the word Member) of The Football League Limited - so an entity can only be a member if you are a shareholder of that company. Correct. Article 6 is a pretty standard form article prohibiting the transfer of any share without the approval of the Board of the EFL. Kind of. If by 'EFL' you mean The Football League Limited then of course, when promoted from the Championship or relegated from League 2, a club may - under Regulation 4.1 - resign from membership of The Football League Limited at the end of a season. Resigning in any other way activates the indemnity in Regulation 4.2. The actual obligation on The Football League Limited to accept these resignations is in Regulations 7.7, 7.8, and 10 - those conditions are long and dull but essentially The Football League Limited promise to honour promotion and relegation by enabling the issue and repurchase of such shares as are necessary. Yes, as set out in my earlier post. No. Ownership of a share is membership and it's not possible to separate the two concepts. Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) is under Notice that the Board of the The Football League Limited intend to force them to sell their share - the share currently held by Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) - for 5p. That Notice of Withdrawal is referred to in the statement from yesterday "The EFL has today informed the Administrators at Derby County that...it is changing the terms of the suspended Notice of Withdrawal issued when the Club entered into administration in September 2021." and "The suspension of the Notice of Withdrawal of the Club’s share in the EFL is subject to conditions that, in accordance with the League’s insolvency policy, the EFL Board determine...". Both these are consistent with the procedure I set out, as it is set out within the articles of The Football League Limited. This is also clear that a) a Notice has been issued, but b) it is suspended. The Notice is suspended, not the membership. Furthermore, anecdotally Derby County Football Club (in administration) must have still held (and still does hold) a valid membership after entering administration. If it did not, if it were expelled at the point at which it entered administration, then under the articles and Regulations it had no right to compete in any EFL competition since September 2021. Yet it did. The Joint Administrators would each individually almost certainly pass the Owners and Directors test. All three are licensed insolvency practitioners and so, given that registration is onerous as well, are unlikely to have been involved in any Disqualifying Event. The Joint Administrators control a company that holds a share in The Football League Limited. So they do have some power - they control one vote out of the 72 that could feasibly be cast in any EFL vote. As I said, and as the EFL say in their statement, these powers are imposed under the conditions of the Notice of Withdrawal - ie under article 4.8 of the articles of association. "...the EFL has informed the Administrators that there will be a revision to the conditions attached to the suspension and the EFL is now to be made a party to all correspondence and discussions between the Administrators, and any and all potential bidders, with an acknowledgment that the League will be able to negotiate directly in relation to matters concerning the transfer of the share in the EFL." It is pretty clear. It also supports the argument that Derby County Football Club Ltd remains a Member Club as if it was not a Member Club then it would no longer be bound by article 4.8 and so could simply ignore the EFL's changes to the Notice of Withdrawal...because it would already have been withdrawn from the register of shareholders of the Football League Limited. In the absence of documentary evidence to the contrary we have to go with the legal structure set out in the articles and Regulations. I made clear they hadn't been expelled. I do believe I've previously seen that their membership rights are severly curtailed once entering administration. They hold a share, but that's about it. For example I don't believe they are able to vote or stand for election on any EFL board or committee, nor may their administrators. The administrators don't take beneficial ownership of the company they administer, they administer on behalf of that owner, their creditors and debtors. Derby remain entitled to distributions via the EFL but I believe the EFL maintain the right to withhold or distribute should they believe the administrators are not acting in terms of the priorities they should. The statement yesterday and the EFL stepping in as they are suggests they did not believe the administrators are acting as they should. For example, there was nothing in the regulation for the EFL to demand the Administrators run everything past them first, but they have and can. They can amend at will, require no emergency endorsement via other members and that's what they just done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Lrrr said: You must have that gif ready to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: You must have that gif ready to go! I mean there is a gif function in the comment box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 24 minutes ago, REDOXO said: Thanks! I don’t see CK! Cmon Ze List admins keep up! No 83, after he walked away the first time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Lrrr said: I mean there is a gif function in the comment box But it’s your standard go-to gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Just now, Davefevs said: But it’s your standard go-to gif Just waiting to be actually shocked by something 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Marvin said: No 83, after he walked away the first time. Do we think he should be on it twice? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elhombrecito Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 5 hours ago, Davefevs said: But it’s your standard go-to gif It's a shame for Derby that somebody hadn't come along with this gif instead... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Early withdrawal usually means that you have not been well and truly ****ed. In Derby's case early withdrawal could mean they have been! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 9 hours ago, REDOXO said: Thanks! I don’t see CK! Cmon Ze List admins keep up! Number 83. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galley is our king Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 BBC reporting CK has withdrawn offer to buy DC. Huge problems now and right in the if correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Woah that thread title-change threw me then! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 53 minutes ago, CyderInACan said: Woah that thread title-change threw me then! Same here! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 11 hours ago, BTRFTG said: I made clear they hadn't been expelled. I do believe I've previously seen that their membership rights are severly curtailed once entering administration. They hold a share, but that's about it. For example I don't believe they are able to vote or stand for election on any EFL board or committee, nor may their administrators. The administrators don't take beneficial ownership of the company they administer, they administer on behalf of that owner, their creditors and debtors. Derby remain entitled to distributions via the EFL but I believe the EFL maintain the right to withhold or distribute should they believe the administrators are not acting in terms of the priorities they should. The statement yesterday and the EFL stepping in as they are suggests they did not believe the administrators are acting as they should. Ok, I'm not going to argue about what you originally said. The post of yours that I originally quoted is still posted a few pages back, so we can all go and read it if we want to. But, again you've used the word "believe" several times when describing what Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) or their Joint Administrators can currently do, or can currently benefit from. You say this in relation to the status of Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) as a Member Club of The English Football League Ltd. As an example, you say that you don't think Derby currently has the right to vote as an EFL Member Club. OK, let's test that. Firstly, nowhere in the articles of association of The English Football League Ltd or the EFL Regulations does it say that a Club automatically loses this right upon entering administration. In fact the articles (in particular 10.10, 11.5, 12) suggest, although voting rights are not expressly addressed, that any club that is a Member Club (ie any entity that holds a share from time to time) is entitled to vote. From my reading it looks like the only way this right to vote could possibly have been removed is if it was one of the conditions to suspension contained within the Notice of Withdrawal. Now we haven't seen that document, so we cannot be sure of the exact conditions contained within it. However, if the right to vote was purported to be removed from Derby under the Notice of Withdrawal then that would amount to an amendment of the rights attaching to a share. As all shares of the same class must have the same rights (otherwise you're deemed to have created a new class of share), then (in the absence of anything in the articles) doing this should require a special resolution of the other shareholders of that class of share (ie 75% of the 71 other clubs) to alter those share rights. We'd also see a filing on Companies House to that effect. No such filing is shown on the Companies House webpage for The English Football League Ltd, and so we can assume this has not happened. Therefore we should assume that Derby are still able to vote as a Member Club. You are correct that no Derby representative can stand for election to the Board of the EFL. That's in the articles (article 20.1.14). They also cannot put forward anyone to be an EFL rep on the FA's board (article 24.6.12). Of course the Joint Administrators don't take beneficial ownership of the shares of the company they administer. Is that relevant to Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration)'s membership of the EFL? Membership is determined by ownership of a share - ie ownership of legal title, not beneficial ownership. I agree that the statement yesterday and the EFL stepping in as they are suggests that the EFL do not believe the administrators are acting as they should...but that statement and actions doesn't in anyway suggest that Derby are no longer a Member Club. 11 hours ago, BTRFTG said: For example, there was nothing in the regulation for the EFL to demand the Administrators run everything past them first, but they have and can. They can amend at will, require no emergency endorsement via other members and that's what they just done. Yes. That is exactly what article (not regulation) 4.8 says. There is no problem with them doing that at all because it's in the rules - rules that apply to Derby because they are a member of the EFL. I'm not trying to point score or argue, and I do agree with some aspects of what you say, there are some things that Derby (or its admins and directors etc) cannot do because they are in admin. However, this conversation needs to be held on certain terms. I'm stating the certainty of the articles, the regulations, and corporate law. You are stating occurrences that if true have big consequences, but you're not providing evidence to support your beliefs. Saying they've been expelled, saying they cannot vote anymore, this sort of stuff feeds the fantasy 'EFL vendetta' nonsense that Derby fans are spouting. It undermines confidence in the EFL as a body, and sows seeds of confusion amongst fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 So how come Kirchner passed the EFL's owners and directors test? And what sort of proof of funding did he provide them with? What a shambles. Oh well, never mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: So how come Kirchner passed the EFL's owners and directors test? And what sort of proof of funding did he provide them with? What a shambles. Oh well, never mind. If you think that’s bad Lawrence Bassini is supposedly taking over Birmingham… The whole thing is a total shambles, the direct consequence of letting Wild West capitalism loose on football. We’re never putting the genie back in the bottle now, but how we got to this place is shameful. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, GrahamC said: If you think that’s bad Lawrence Bassini is supposedly taking over Birmingham… The whole thing is a total shambles, the direct consequence of letting Wild West capitalism loose on football. We’re never putting the genie back in the bottle now, but how we got to this place is shameful. Rick Parry's got his work cut out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 10 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Rick Parry's got his work cut out. Rumour is it’s as a front for David Sullivan who can’t own 2 clubs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephjnr Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, GrahamC said: Rumour is it’s as a front for David Sullivan who can’t own 2 clubs.. At least David Sullivan can see a football ground for more than the blocks of flats he can sell it for. Edited June 14, 2022 by sephjnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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