Derby County

[Monkeh]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nixon:

 

71 other members have the right to stick their noses in especially where competition and finances are involved, the members need to know if any rules are being broken and what punishment for said breaches

Nixon is wrong

[chinapig]

10 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Increasingly desperate ramblings in favour of his master.

Though he seems to have stopped insisting that Kirchner's cheque is in the post.

[1960maaan]

8 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

71 other members have the right to stick their noses in especially where competition and finances are involved, the members need to know if any rules are being broken and what punishment for said breaches

Nixon is wrong

Absolutely . The rumours they may not have to pay the full tax bill. when smaller clubs have been wound up for less? 
All other Clubs that compete in the same competition have the right to know that all Clubs are treated exactly the same.

[Davefevs]

re HMRC.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Davefevs

[1960maaan]

Hereford United has been wound up by a High Court judge.
The winding-up petition was brought by HM Revenue and Customs, which is thought to be owed £116,000.

Southend United have settled tax debts worth £493,931, with a winding-up petition against the League Two club dismissed in the High Court.

Macclesfield Town Football Club has been wound up in the High Court in relation to debts 
The application for a winding up order came from HMRC, with the football club understood to owe close to £190,000 in taxes.

Southend have paid their tax debt and a winding-up petition against them has been dismissed.
The League Two club had been allowed more time to pay a debt of £493,991 to HM Revenue and Customs at an adjourned hearing in September.

The fact that the HMRC have let the debt get to around £30m is a disgrace. By all means give them years to pay, but to let them off would give a massively unfair advantage to Derby. Even if it's an advantage they have squandered.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Goitta say the more I read of their forum and social media, the more I wouldn't care if Derby went pop- a high ratio of ignorant, arrogant bellends it would seem- we know that already but it is always good to have it reaffirmed. Especially in light of the mooted HMRC discount.

OTOH some numbers- from their forum, good poster-, Ghost of Clough with the numbers as per easy enough to work out the maths from here. Helpfully it's been rounded for easy calculation.

Quote

Creditors are not far off these figures:
HMRC - £36m
MSD - £24m
Transfer Fees - £8.4m
Administrators - £3.5m (estimate)
Unsecured Creditors - £3m

35% to unsecured creditors (£1m), whatever was agreed with HMRC (I'm guessing at 50% = £18m), and 100% of the rest.
£55m for the lot. 
The 25% option would knock just £300k off the total. Doesn't make sense to do that when you can spread the payments out over 3 years instead.

WITHOUT stadium, 35% in 3 years to the unsecured let's say would mean...

1. HMRC- £12.6m
2. Transfer fees- £8.4m
3. Admin- £3.5m (estimate)
4. Unsecured- £1.05m

Making a total sans stadium of £25.55m- although Nixon has gone on before about £21.4m IIRC. This also in both calculations assumes no reduction in Transfer fees or Admin.

25% up front would be...

1. HMRC- £9m
2. Transfer fees- £8.4m
3. Admin- £3.5m (estimate)
4. Unsecured- £0.75m

£21.65m.

Ashley actually reportedly had a bid of £50m in the pipeline last winter albeit including stadium when the HMRC, MSD and admin fees would've been lower. That would comfortably have covered the minumum and the stadium with no risk of points deductions- and a bit more than the minimum as well.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[PHILINFRANCE]

This aspect has always intrigued me - taken from the Derby Fans forum.

It still baffles me as to how Mel Morris was able to buy a stadium for £80m, but never transfer any funds to the club at all - as far as I understand it was simply an accounting transaction, but in reality we received no money and lost a stadium. We know he's been a bit underhand for a long time as our 'custodian' but I want all the skeletons. 

Is the answer that MM was/is owed millions by the football club as a result of his numerous loans, and has taken the stadium in part-payment (I understand the nuances of separating the stadium from the football club in case of future financial problems) or is there another reason(s)? 

Edited June 13, 2022 by PHILINFRANCE

[Mr Popodopolous]

I also forgot to add, a penny for the thoughts of Quantuma about the EFL potentially getting involved...

Birch v Andronikou again. Anyone for popcorn? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Good! Although Nixon so pinch of salt? I trust him on FFP matters for sure but dunno about the other stuff.

Summary posted on the Derby forum of the Patreon point...I wondered when clubs would start to turn the screw a bit and no place in League Two if it fails is also sticking to the integrity of the system.

I don't want Derby to go under- and I still stick to my bet of no liquidation- but at the same time there should be no short cuts or special favours.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[chinapig]

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Good! Although Nixon so pinch of salt? I trust him on FFP matters for sure but dunno about the other stuff.

Summary posted on the Derby forum of the Patreon point...I wondered when clubs would start to turn the screw a bit and no place in League Two if it fails is also sticking to the integrity of the system.

They're trying to work out which individual clubs are angry. It doesn't seem to occur to them that it might be all 71, having no doubt discussed at the AGM.

Nor does it occur to them that clubs may be angry that Derby are getting special treatment from HMRC that the rest of them don't get.

[Hxj]

Just a thought - when the person paid the wages - did they do a 'Morris' in providing cash for the net wages only.

If so money is needed by 22 June for the Administrators to pay the Tax/NIC.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Just a thought - when the person paid the wages - did they do a 'Morris' in providing cash for the net wages only.

If so money is needed by 22 June for the Administrators to pay the Tax/NIC.

£1.6m was mentioned by Nixon so that might cover tax, NIC etc.

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

This aspect has always intrigued me - taken from the Derby Fans forum.

It still baffles me as to how Mel Morris was able to buy a stadium for £80m, but never transfer any funds to the club at all - as far as I understand it was simply an accounting transaction, but in reality we received no money and lost a stadium. We know he's been a bit underhand for a long time as our 'custodian' but I want all the skeletons. 

Is the answer that MM was/is owed millions by the football club as a result of his numerous loans, and has taken the stadium in part-payment (I understand the nuances of separating the stadium from the football club in case of future financial problems) or is there another reason(s)? 

That was what made the stadium "sale" so dodgy, as as ffp was concerned.

As no actual money changed hands, it was, as you say, a paper transaction. This in turn meant that the sale was based not on an open market transaction, but what is termed in the mortgage industry a desk valuation. With no real market comparables it was wide open for the "professional and independent" valuation to be manipulated.

Surprise, surprise Pride Park was valued at just the figure necessary to duck a ffp breach!

The EFL were naively duped by Morris (when he had them on a string), in the same way as are referees by play acting and cheating players.

Where's the £80m valuation now?

[BTRFTG]

4 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

This aspect has always intrigued me - taken from the Derby Fans forum.

It still baffles me as to how Mel Morris was able to buy a stadium for £80m, but never transfer any funds to the club at all - as far as I understand it was simply an accounting transaction, but in reality we received no money and lost a stadium. We know he's been a bit underhand for a long time as our 'custodian' but I want all the skeletons. 

Is the answer that MM was/is owed millions by the football club as a result of his numerous loans, and has taken the stadium in part-payment (I understand the nuances of separating the stadium from the football club in case of future financial problems) or is there another reason(s)? 

Simply an FFP / P&S transaction.

The football club show a profit (difference between on book and inflated sale,) that year,  the club's holding company loaned the money (sic) to the stadium company to 'buy' the stadium such as they were all under the same control it's a circular transaction. In theory the club's holding company is owed but added value was never there in the first place. 

Imagine selling a fine bottle of wine to your better half for quadruple it's market value, paid for with monies you've loaned. From a household perspective how much wealthier are you?

 

[BTRFTG]

2 hours ago, downendcity said:

That was what made the stadium "sale" so dodgy, as as ffp was concerned.

As no actual money changed hands, it was, as you say, a paper transaction. This in turn meant that the sale was based not on an open market transaction, but what is termed in the mortgage industry a desk valuation. With no real market comparables it was wide open for the "professional and independent" valuation to be manipulated.

Surprise, surprise Pride Park was valued at just the figure necessary to duck a ffp breach!

The EFL were naively duped by Morris (when he had them on a string), in the same way as are referees by play acting and cheating players.

Where's the £80m valuation now?

If you care to scroll back many pages I've explained several times in detail as to how the £81m figure was derived. In brief, it wasn't a market value as most imagine , rather a Depreciated Replacement Cost assessment (that wholly different from any mortgage based assessment.) DRCs are used for unusual, bespoke assets - visit the RICS website where they've dozens of technical papers explaining where these are appropriate and how they function. It's basically how much would it cost to rebuild what I've got? Problem being nobody ever bothers to rebuild as was, never happens as rather you'd always go for something more modern. It works for accounting and insurance purposes and also, as Morris exploited, to get around EFL FFP/P&S policy.

[PHILINFRANCE]

I have just seen this clip on the Derby Fans forum.

Their goalscorer looks quite a good player.

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

re HMRC.

 

Oooh! On to threats now!

[Mr Popodopolous]

47 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

If you care to scroll back many pages I've explained several times in detail as to how the £81m figure was derived. In brief, it wasn't a market value as most imagine , rather a Depreciated Replacement Cost assessment (that wholly different from any mortgage based assessment.) DRCs are used for unusual, bespoke assets - visit the RICS website where they've dozens of technical papers explaining where these are appropriate and how they function. It's basically how much would it cost to rebuild what I've got? Problem being nobody ever bothers to rebuild as was, never happens as rather you'd always go for something more modern. It works for accounting and insurance purposes and also, as Morris exploited, to get around EFL FFP/P&S policy.

In fact, though I undoubtedly agree with the thrust of your post, there was some puzzlement there too- was the "Profits method" as opposed to DRC IIRC- this was a sticking point between club and EFL.

DRC was £74.4m and for some unaccountable reason, the Profits method of £81.1m was upheld. DRC seems the only sensible method for this kinda transaction IMO.

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/media/get/EFL Derby County Decision Document.pdf

I get the DRC method but I struggle to see how the Profits method is that reliable- feels like it is rather open to fluctuation! From IDC 1. Is a long read- 123 pages- but there are bits on it, 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Hxj]

More to the point:

 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Hxj said:

More to the point:

 

Surely they won’t start that high

[REDOXO]

46 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Oooh! On to threats now!

I read on the tweet thread someone saying how other clubs got a tax deduction. Leeds and Bolton were mentioned. 
 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the extent of the tax avoidance here was at a time of national crisis, quite deliberately designed to utterly and unethically take advantage of a government policy to assist organizations through a difficult period. 
 

The comparison with other clubs is infuriating! If HMRC give them a break on any of that money, they better prepare themselves for the outcry. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

 

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In fact, though I undoubtedly agree with the thrust of your post, there was some puzzlement there too- was the "Profits method" as opposed to DRC IIRC- this was a sticking point between club and EFL.

DRC was £74.4m and for some unaccountable reason, the Profits method of £81.1m was upheld. DRC seems the only sensible method for this kinda transaction IMO.

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/media/get/EFL Derby County Decision Document.pdf

I get the DRC method but I struggle to see how the Profits method is that reliable- feels like it is rather open to fluctuation! From IDC 1. Is a long read- 123 pages- but there are bits on it, 

I think the test failed as although Derby cited a 'With Profits' figure based on non assured, impaired accounts, the clever lawyers managed to extract a range of DRC values based on the point I made, that nobody ever rebuilds as was, such there was a consideration for a DRC figure for what most likely would have been a replacement. The judgement looked at the lower and higher DRCs and the midpoint was slightly higher than the 'With Profits' figure Derby had used, therefore had to conclude the EFL hadn't proven the charge the stadium was over valued, though any sensible person knows that DRC is NOT a realistic market valuation, it's for accountancy and risk only. Derby won on semantics, not fact.

For stuff like commercial buildings 'With Profits' is a very reliable measure, hence buildings values fluctuate dependant upon the quality of leases issued against them.

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I think the test failed as although Derby cited a 'With Profits' figure based on non assured, impaired accounts, the clever lawyers managed to extract a range of DRC values based on the point I made, that nobody ever rebuilds as was, such there was a consideration for a DRC figure for what most likely would have been a replacement. The judgement looked at the lower and higher DRCs and the midpoint was slightly higher than the 'With Profits' figure Derby had used, therefore had to conclude the EFL hadn't proven the charge the stadium was over valued, though any sensible person knows that DRC is NOT a realistic market valuation, it's for accountancy and risk only. Derby won on semantics, not fact.

For stuff like commercial buildings 'With Profits' is a very reliable measure, hence buildings values fluctuate dependant upon the quality of leases issued against them.

Thanks- and that does make sense, not least as the valuer hired by Derby set a fair rent of £4.16m per season which is roughly in line with the 5% yield bracket- quality of lease, do you mean yield/return?

Although Derby tried yet another trick which was £1.1m per year on days usage...certainly doubt the EFL have accepted that for P&S/FFP purposes- although the EFL had yet another valuation of about £50m but their hired valuer chose some crazy examples. They took an awful lot on face value in 2018 and 2019 which kinda tied their hands somewhat.

I don't see why the EFL shouldn't insist on a paper rent of £4.16m per year being substituted in moving forward though for FFP purposes- after all a) Mel Morris still values it at £81.1m and b) The Independent Valuer hired by Derby gave that number.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

Funds didn’t arrive.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Over to Nixon now...see if he contradicts or confirms!

 

[RUSSEL85]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Over to Nixon now...see if he contradicts or confirms!

 

This is now official, SSN confirmed he has withdrawn his offer.

[East Londoner]

What’s amused me the last couple of days is how many people claimed to be in the know of his bank account 

[Monkeh]

Lot of back tracking from nixon me thinks,

And basically Derby have 2 weeks to complete a takeover, and as they are desperate, it won't be on favourable terms

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Over to Nixon now...see if he contradicts or confirms!

 

Well, that was totally unexpected. Who would have guessed? Not Nixon for sure who may now lose an awful lot of Derby based Patreon subscribers.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Is -15 incoming now?

Will the EFL's preferred business plan be acceptable to any or all prospective bidders? Remember that along with Football creditors being paid in full, accepting what monitoring and oversight the EFL consider necessary, and potentially the bits about unsecured creditors, HMRC getting minimum payment is quite important for EFL approval...

Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Lanterne Rouge]

They`re ****** aren`t they?

[Mr Popodopolous]

In theory no, they have- 10 days is it- until the fixtures are out. Can it go beyond that?

Must be no bending of rules though- the rules are the rules that bind us all.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

Ok. I think we need to be very clear what we mean when we are saying that a club has been expelled from the EFL. It's a pretty serious thing, and getting it wrong will lead to all sorts of incorrect conclusions about the state Derby are in. 

9 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

I believe the EFL view membership as somewhat more than simply holding a (largely symbolic) share.

This is about the black and white (together?) of the Articles of Association of The Football League Limited (and related Regulations). Ownership of a share in the The Football League Limited is not symbolic at all, it is the membership ticket that allows a club to participate in the division it is in, to play matches, and to benefit from prize money and other financial distributions. This is why any potential buyer wants to buy the entity to which the share is issued. If a share was symbolic only then one could simply purchase the badge, the IP, maybe the stadium, and have player contracts assigned from that entity, and then participate in the competitions organised by EFL. But that's not the case because Articles and the Regulations say that a 'Member Club' is a club that is a shareholder (although they use the word Member) of The Football League Limited - so an entity can only be a member if you are a shareholder of that company.

10 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Recall one can't gift or pass the share to anyone (that requires EFL approval,)

Correct. Article 6 is a pretty standard form article prohibiting the transfer of any share without the approval of the Board of the EFL.

10 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

when exiting the EFL either way one has to cede the share (no choice in the matter,)

Kind of. If by 'EFL' you mean The Football League Limited then of course, when promoted from the Championship or relegated from League 2, a club may - under Regulation 4.1 - resign from membership of The Football League Limited at the end of a season. Resigning in any other way activates the indemnity in Regulation 4.2. The actual obligation on The Football League Limited to accept these resignations is in Regulations 7.7, 7.8, and 10 - those conditions are long and dull but essentially The Football League Limited promise to honour promotion and relegation by enabling the issue and repurchase of such shares as are necessary.

10 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

the share may be removed via the expulsion process.

Yes, as set out in my earlier post.

10 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

once in administration one's membership (though not technically share at that point,) is removed.

No. Ownership of a share is membership and it's not possible to separate the two concepts. Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) is under Notice that the Board of the The Football League Limited intend to force them to sell their share - the share currently held by Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) - for 5p. That Notice of Withdrawal is referred to in the statement from yesterday "The EFL has today informed the Administrators at Derby County that...it is changing the terms of the suspended Notice of Withdrawal issued when the Club entered into administration in September 2021." and "The suspension of the Notice of Withdrawal of the Club’s share in the EFL is subject to conditions that, in accordance with the League’s insolvency policy, the EFL Board determine...". Both these are consistent with the procedure I set out, as it is set out within the articles of The Football League Limited. This is also clear that a) a Notice has been issued, but b) it is suspended. The Notice is suspended, not the membership.

Furthermore, anecdotally Derby County Football Club (in administration) must have still held (and still does hold) a valid membership after entering administration. If it did not, if it were expelled at the point at which it entered administration, then under the articles and Regulations it had no right to compete in any EFL competition since September 2021. Yet it did.

10 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

From yesterday's statement I'm not sure the EFL might think Q 'fit and proper' but that's moot given, if I remember correctly, Q will have no power or influence within the EFL membership. 

The Joint Administrators would each individually almost certainly pass the Owners and Directors test. All three are licensed insolvency practitioners and so, given that registration is onerous as well, are unlikely to have been involved in any Disqualifying Event.

The Joint Administrators control a company that holds a share in The Football League Limited. So they do have some power - they control one vote out of the 72 that could feasibly be cast in any EFL vote.

10 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Consider also the extraordinary powers the EFL exerted yesterday, setting mandatory constraints on how the administrators MUST act. Wouldn't happen elsewhere in business but I think they are able to do so under the membership powers (i.e. if you don't like it you don't have to be a member of this group.)

As I said, and as the EFL say in their statement, these powers are imposed under the conditions of the Notice of Withdrawal - ie under article 4.8 of the articles of association. "...the EFL has informed the Administrators that there will be a revision to the conditions attached to the suspension and the EFL is now to be made a party to all correspondence and discussions between the Administrators, and any and all potential bidders, with an acknowledgment that the League will be able to negotiate directly in relation to matters concerning the transfer of the share in the EFL." It is pretty clear. It also supports the argument that Derby County Football Club Ltd remains a Member Club as if it was not a Member Club then it would no longer be bound by article 4.8 and so could simply ignore the EFL's changes to the Notice of Withdrawal...because it would already have been withdrawn from the register of shareholders of the Football League Limited.

In the absence of documentary evidence to the contrary we have to go with the legal structure set out in the articles and Regulations.

[PHILINFRANCE]

It looks as if I may have been a little slow in posting this.

[CyderInACan]

14 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Lot of back tracking from nixon me thinks,

And basically Derby have 2 weeks to complete a takeover, and as they are desperate, it won't be on favourable terms

Ashley or bust, then. 

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Not Nixon for sure who may now lose an awful lot of Derby based Patreon subscribers.

Haha, great mind

[DaveF]

Kirchner's has withdrawn his bid:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12633357/chris-kirchner-withdraws-derby-county-bid

[Sir Geoff]

7 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Kirchner's has withdrawn his bid:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12633357/chris-kirchner-withdraws-derby-county-bid

Also on BBC. I take it his takeover and funds transfer are no longer imminent.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Sir Geoff
Change text

[ExiledAjax]

9 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Kirchner's has withdrawn his bid:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12633357/chris-kirchner-withdraws-derby-county-bid

Right. Onto 'ze list' with him.

[Hxj]

17 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

I take it his takeover and funds transfer are no longer imminent.

Incorrect - it is still imminent - and will always be so!

[Midred]

It's to be hoped that the efl are following the advice on otib!

[PHILINFRANCE]

[REDOXO]

Has Ze List been updated? 

[Monkeh]

10 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Well , no shock there . I have to blame Quantuma  here . There was good reason I said , way back , let’s see the money when CK came back on the scene . If I was aware of those shortcomings , then what sort of due diligence did they do with the extensive network they could have verified with ? This is exactly as it was always going to pan out . I have no idea what CK was on , or what games he was playing . But I do know he did not have the money . 
IMHO this is better news for Derby , because if by some miracle he has found the first payments , Derby would have been back in admin within a year is my forecast . 
sell to Ashley , he will build it up and sell when he gets them to the Prem . 
They need someone who has real money . Watch the mess Birmingham are now heading into with their takeover . That will not end well either imho. 

 

He is a crypto bro, as soon as the bottom fell put of the market his finances dried up

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, TomF said:

Today probably finished him.  Massive Cyrptocrash 

Been a few of those lately,

Wasn't bitcoin worth 64k a couple of months back?

[Marvin]

37 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Has Ze List been updated? 

The new and improved official Derby County blame list:
1. The EFL
2. Steve Gibson
3. Neil Bausor
4. Middlesbrough
5. Rob Couhig
6. Wycombe
7. Covid
8. The ticket office
9. The HMRC
10. Nicholas Randall
11. Trevor Birch
12. Darren Bent
13. Steve McClaren
14. Danny Higginbotham
15. Richard Keogh
16. The European Super League
17. Sky Sports
18. The Football League paper
19. Burton Albion
20. Derby City Council
21. Mind (the mental health charity)
22. Opposition fans
23. The taxpayer
24. Derby's creditors
25. Forest fans that sit in the Upper Bridgford
26. Rick Parry
27. Brice Samba
28. Jack Colback
29. Simon Jordan
30. ITV Digital
31. Setanta
32. Brian Clough
33. Juventus
34. Tim Robinson
35. Lewis Grabban
36. Brennan Johnson
37. Kenny Burns
38. Nigel Clough
39. Billy Davies
40. LTLF
41. Rockabilly and his curse
42. Derby fans (whilst also being blameless at the same time)
43. Stan Collymore
44. Leeds United
45. Ed Dawes
46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL)
47. Scott McKenna (for heading aeroplanes away that may contain investors, thus preventing Derby's takeover)
48. OK SpidermAndy! (for upsetting Derby fans by querying how long it will be before Derby fans nick Liverpool's "You'll Never Walk Alone" chant)
49. John Percy
50. Rob Dorsett
51. FFSForest (a Twitter user who pointed out how the absence of Derby's "unreal" supporters this season has cost them around £5m, which would help them complete the season. Clearly an EFL stooge!)
52. 166,000 empty seats (probably the fault of the seat manufacturer, rather than their "unreal" fans though)
53. Forest selling players to Olympiacos
54. Liverpool fans, Sheffield police and the Hillsboro/Govt report (making stadiums all seater prevented them from selling 60k every game)
55. Lyle Taylor
56. Adrian Durham
57. Luke Plange and Crystal Palace
58. Matt Donohue
59. Duane Holmes
60. Beardo7 and his £10 bet
61. Holland & Barrett
62. Bobby Zamora
63. Goalposts
64. Kim Leck
65. Aston Villa
66. Myself
67. The Mysterons
68. Captain Black
69. Shaggy
70. The Queen
71. RealRed85
72. Billingham Synthonia FC
73. Text messages
74. Congo_red (for daring to use facts)
75. Chevin Homes (the "preferred" partner in property)
76. Gianluca Di Marzio
77. Pozzo family (Udinese/Watford)
78. Brexit
79. Derby's Category 1 academy
80. Adam Hart-Davis
81. Birmingham City fans
82. Derby forum users Gritstone Tup and Mucker1884 (for breaking away from the hive mind and going against the narrative)
83. Chris Kirchner
84. Chris Doidge (blasphemous BBC Radio Derby presenter)
85. Daniel Taylor
86. Hasbro
87. From Software
88. Atari
89. 32 Red
90. Sheffield Wednesday fans
91. Bouncer the dog
92. Sam Longson
93. Alcohol
94. Leicester City
95. MaxiRobriguez
96. The MLS
97. The Joiners Arms in Quarndon
98. Highways England
99. Middlesbrough fans bringing facts onto Derby's forum
100. Ze list
101. Darren Huckerby
102. Del Boy and Rodney
103. Harry Enfield
104. Jeremy Simpson
105. Mason Bennett
106. Tom Lawrence
107. Ball boys
108. Scott Malone
109. Tubby pitch invaders
110. Kenny Loggins
111. Nathan Thompson
112. Vladimir Putin
113. MPs
114. "Fake" deadlines
115. The Derby Telegraph
116. The Twitter user @derbyram76 (aka Leitrim Ram) (for creating his own version of ze list)
117. Boris Johnson
118. Daleks
119. Derbyshire Mortgage Services (blasphemous mortgage firm)
120. Pancake day
121. Doctor Who and their companions
122. I'm Red Till Dead
123. BBC Radio Derby
124. Colin Fray
125. Uche Ikpeazu
126. Sky Bet
127. Mitchell and Webb
128. Cardiff City fans
129. Bungle from Rainbow (his coke addiction is causing confusion in the Quantuma offices, thus preventing Derby's takeover)
130. Notcher
131. Whoever at Nottingham Forest is asking the EFL to lobby FIFA to let players at Russian clubs walk away from their contracts
132. Chelsea
133. DC Comics
134. Preston North End
135. Billy Joel
136. Igor Novikov
137. Ben Smyth (treacherous "Derby fan" on Twitter slandering Derby's "amazing" supporters)
138. Joel Moore (another Derby traitor on Twitter who is going against the "Fight 'till the end" narrative)
139. Lech Poznan (for having the audacity to ask for money owed to them)
140. Kieran Maguire
141. Truth
142. HBB
143. Evangelos Marinakis
144. David (moderator on the DCFC Fans forum)
145. "Interested parties"
146. Club 84 (a Twitter user who posted a blasphemous image)
147. Alan Nixon
148. Matt Slater
149. Coventry City
150. The sun
151. Jack Marriott
152. The Sex Pistols
153. QPR
154. The Bristol City Forum OTIB
155. Secret squirrels
156. FiveThirtyEight's Super Computer
157. Mr Magoo
158. Douglas Adams
159. Philip Madoc
160. Will Smith and Chris Rock
161. Fawaz Al-Hasawi
162. Hans Von Dunkelroter
163. The Clash
164. Mr Popodopolous
165. The awkward "preferred bidder"
166. Everyone on page 1000 of this thread
167. Strummer
168. India Willoughby
169. Narcissists
170. Reading FC
171. Paul Ince
172. Status Quo
173. Agent Penguin
174. Sam Surridge
175. Joao Carvalho
176. Stoke City
177. Buildabonfire177
178. No Limits Sports Limited
179. 2 Unlimited
180. Golf
181. Obi Wan Kenobi
182. LTLF mods
183. Eddie Yates
184. Peter Ridsdale
185. Guy Moussi
186. RichNFFC's daughter
187. Zak Goulding (PNE fan on Twitter who has upset Derby's new messiah)
188. Alan Hinton
189. Red flags
190. Nathan Tyson
191. Trents
192. Common sense
193. Acrobat
194. ShakeyRed
195. Other teams getting results
196. Baba Rahman
197. Fulham fans
198. Buildabonfire177's friend
199. Rules
200. Luke Amos and Tom McIntyre
201. Captain Sinister
202. Paul Merson
203. Domino's Pizza
204. Jeff Hendrick
205. Accrington Stanley
206. West Brom fans
207. Jimtastic56 (blasphemous poster on Derby's forum criticising "heroic Derby" for their shit away form)
208. Mr Blonde
209. Wigan Athletic
210. EFL Rule 14.3.2
211. Forestjones (for asking for Derby's relegation as a birthday present on Easter Monday)
212. Gene Wilder
213. Ichthyostega
214. People voting Kelle Roos as Derby's Player of the Season (and the lazy, amateurish coding that enables people to do so multiple times)
215. Tombo (Derby fan committing an act of treason)
216. "Jamie" (@dingjme) (a Reading fan who has upset some of our sensitive friends down the road)
217. Flagman
218. Bobby (a QPR fan on Derby's forum bringing that pesky reality thing into their dreamworld again)
219. Football Post (for making Crewton on the Derby forum cry)
220. Rzarecteh
221. Malcolm Ebiowei
222. Ramstrust and BAWT
223. Belefonte (also made Crewton cry)
224. Forest fans at Peterborough (more crying from Crewton)
225. Erik
226. Size 11 font and Harvard referencing
227. Gamble
228. Wred
229. Winnits
230. Lack of VAR in the Championship (robbing Derby of 30 points!)
231. Tiff
232. Brian Potter
233. Demetrius Andrade
234. Thomas Tuchel
235. Death Cab for Cutie
236. Detroit City FC
237. Colleen Rooney
238. Hugh Tomlinson QC
239. Forest Scaffolding Nottingham Ltd
240. Famous Forestzoe
241. Czeslaw Michniewicz
242. Jeremy Corbyn
243. Rockabilly's flag
244. Augustus
245. Long Eaton Tesco
246. Mrs Beardo7
247. Levi Samuels Colwill
248. Steve Cooper
249. Jonathan Moss
250. Aladdin's lamp
251. EmmersonForest4
252. Transport for London
253. "The gap"
254. Sadiq Khan
255. Meateatingvegan (PNE fan picking on poor little Derby)
256. Depeche Mode
257. East Midlands news
258. Ian Redfern (treacherous and blasphemous Derby fan)
259. Memorial Day/Bank Holidays
260. Glassdoor
261. Manic Street Preachers
262. "Ze list" episode of Dad's Army
263. Gold (channel showing "ze list" episode)
264. jimbobram (Derby fan breaking away from the hive mind)
265. Rafa Nadal
266. The financial police
267. Bury AFC
268. Ramsbottom United
269. Silverdale
270. People being mean to Quantuma
271. James Hooton
272. Emmerdale
273. CBX1985
274. Le Juif Rouge (and his dastardly plans to turn Pride Park into a Sports Direct warehouse)
275. Other EFL clubs
276. Buckeye (poisonous to sheep!)

[exAtyeoMax]

34 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Well , no shock there . I have to blame Quantuma  here . There was good reason I said , way back , let’s see the money when CK came back on the scene . If I was aware of those shortcomings , then what sort of due diligence did they do with the extensive network they could have verified with ? This is exactly as it was always going to pan out . I have no idea what CK was on , or what games he was playing . But I do know he did not have the money . 
IMHO this is better news for Derby , because if by some miracle he has found the first payments , Derby would have been back in admin within a year is my forecast . 
sell to Ashley , he will build it up and sell when he gets them to the Prem . 
They need someone who has real money . Watch the mess Birmingham are now heading into with their takeover . That will not end well either imho. 

 

yes, listening to Price of Football pod this morning, KM couldn't believe they'd had CK as preferred bidder, after all the shenanigans with DCFC and PNE, and DCFC

[RUSSEL85]

9 minutes ago, Marvin said:

The new and improved official Derby County blame list:
1. The EFL
2. Steve Gibson
3. Neil Bausor
4. Middlesbrough
5. Rob Couhig
6. Wycombe
7. Covid
8. The ticket office
9. The HMRC
10. Nicholas Randall
11. Trevor Birch
12. Darren Bent
13. Steve McClaren
14. Danny Higginbotham
15. Richard Keogh
16. The European Super League
17. Sky Sports
18. The Football League paper
19. Burton Albion
20. Derby City Council
21. Mind (the mental health charity)
22. Opposition fans
23. The taxpayer
24. Derby's creditors
25. Forest fans that sit in the Upper Bridgford
26. Rick Parry
27. Brice Samba
28. Jack Colback
29. Simon Jordan
30. ITV Digital
31. Setanta
32. Brian Clough
33. Juventus
34. Tim Robinson
35. Lewis Grabban
36. Brennan Johnson
37. Kenny Burns
38. Nigel Clough
39. Billy Davies
40. LTLF
41. Rockabilly and his curse
42. Derby fans (whilst also being blameless at the same time)
43. Stan Collymore
44. Leeds United
45. Ed Dawes
46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL)
47. Scott McKenna (for heading aeroplanes away that may contain investors, thus preventing Derby's takeover)
48. OK SpidermAndy! (for upsetting Derby fans by querying how long it will be before Derby fans nick Liverpool's "You'll Never Walk Alone" chant)
49. John Percy
50. Rob Dorsett
51. FFSForest (a Twitter user who pointed out how the absence of Derby's "unreal" supporters this season has cost them around £5m, which would help them complete the season. Clearly an EFL stooge!)
52. 166,000 empty seats (probably the fault of the seat manufacturer, rather than their "unreal" fans though)
53. Forest selling players to Olympiacos
54. Liverpool fans, Sheffield police and the Hillsboro/Govt report (making stadiums all seater prevented them from selling 60k every game)
55. Lyle Taylor
56. Adrian Durham
57. Luke Plange and Crystal Palace
58. Matt Donohue
59. Duane Holmes
60. Beardo7 and his £10 bet
61. Holland & Barrett
62. Bobby Zamora
63. Goalposts
64. Kim Leck
65. Aston Villa
66. Myself
67. The Mysterons
68. Captain Black
69. Shaggy
70. The Queen
71. RealRed85
72. Billingham Synthonia FC
73. Text messages
74. Congo_red (for daring to use facts)
75. Chevin Homes (the "preferred" partner in property)
76. Gianluca Di Marzio
77. Pozzo family (Udinese/Watford)
78. Brexit
79. Derby's Category 1 academy
80. Adam Hart-Davis
81. Birmingham City fans
82. Derby forum users Gritstone Tup and Mucker1884 (for breaking away from the hive mind and going against the narrative)
83. Chris Kirchner
84. Chris Doidge (blasphemous BBC Radio Derby presenter)
85. Daniel Taylor
86. Hasbro
87. From Software
88. Atari
89. 32 Red
90. Sheffield Wednesday fans
91. Bouncer the dog
92. Sam Longson
93. Alcohol
94. Leicester City
95. MaxiRobriguez
96. The MLS
97. The Joiners Arms in Quarndon
98. Highways England
99. Middlesbrough fans bringing facts onto Derby's forum
100. Ze list
101. Darren Huckerby
102. Del Boy and Rodney
103. Harry Enfield
104. Jeremy Simpson
105. Mason Bennett
106. Tom Lawrence
107. Ball boys
108. Scott Malone
109. Tubby pitch invaders
110. Kenny Loggins
111. Nathan Thompson
112. Vladimir Putin
113. MPs
114. "Fake" deadlines
115. The Derby Telegraph
116. The Twitter user @derbyram76 (aka Leitrim Ram) (for creating his own version of ze list)
117. Boris Johnson
118. Daleks
119. Derbyshire Mortgage Services (blasphemous mortgage firm)
120. Pancake day
121. Doctor Who and their companions
122. I'm Red Till Dead
123. BBC Radio Derby
124. Colin Fray
125. Uche Ikpeazu
126. Sky Bet
127. Mitchell and Webb
128. Cardiff City fans
129. Bungle from Rainbow (his coke addiction is causing confusion in the Quantuma offices, thus preventing Derby's takeover)
130. Notcher
131. Whoever at Nottingham Forest is asking the EFL to lobby FIFA to let players at Russian clubs walk away from their contracts
132. Chelsea
133. DC Comics
134. Preston North End
135. Billy Joel
136. Igor Novikov
137. Ben Smyth (treacherous "Derby fan" on Twitter slandering Derby's "amazing" supporters)
138. Joel Moore (another Derby traitor on Twitter who is going against the "Fight 'till the end" narrative)
139. Lech Poznan (for having the audacity to ask for money owed to them)
140. Kieran Maguire
141. Truth
142. HBB
143. Evangelos Marinakis
144. David (moderator on the DCFC Fans forum)
145. "Interested parties"
146. Club 84 (a Twitter user who posted a blasphemous image)
147. Alan Nixon
148. Matt Slater
149. Coventry City
150. The sun
151. Jack Marriott
152. The Sex Pistols
153. QPR
154. The Bristol City Forum OTIB
155. Secret squirrels
156. FiveThirtyEight's Super Computer
157. Mr Magoo
158. Douglas Adams
159. Philip Madoc
160. Will Smith and Chris Rock
161. Fawaz Al-Hasawi
162. Hans Von Dunkelroter
163. The Clash
164. Mr Popodopolous
165. The awkward "preferred bidder"
166. Everyone on page 1000 of this thread
167. Strummer
168. India Willoughby
169. Narcissists
170. Reading FC
171. Paul Ince
172. Status Quo
173. Agent Penguin
174. Sam Surridge
175. Joao Carvalho
176. Stoke City
177. Buildabonfire177
178. No Limits Sports Limited
179. 2 Unlimited
180. Golf
181. Obi Wan Kenobi
182. LTLF mods
183. Eddie Yates
184. Peter Ridsdale
185. Guy Moussi
186. RichNFFC's daughter
187. Zak Goulding (PNE fan on Twitter who has upset Derby's new messiah)
188. Alan Hinton
189. Red flags
190. Nathan Tyson
191. Trents
192. Common sense
193. Acrobat
194. ShakeyRed
195. Other teams getting results
196. Baba Rahman
197. Fulham fans
198. Buildabonfire177's friend
199. Rules
200. Luke Amos and Tom McIntyre
201. Captain Sinister
202. Paul Merson
203. Domino's Pizza
204. Jeff Hendrick
205. Accrington Stanley
206. West Brom fans
207. Jimtastic56 (blasphemous poster on Derby's forum criticising "heroic Derby" for their shit away form)
208. Mr Blonde
209. Wigan Athletic
210. EFL Rule 14.3.2
211. Forestjones (for asking for Derby's relegation as a birthday present on Easter Monday)
212. Gene Wilder
213. Ichthyostega
214. People voting Kelle Roos as Derby's Player of the Season (and the lazy, amateurish coding that enables people to do so multiple times)
215. Tombo (Derby fan committing an act of treason)
216. "Jamie" (@dingjme) (a Reading fan who has upset some of our sensitive friends down the road)
217. Flagman
218. Bobby (a QPR fan on Derby's forum bringing that pesky reality thing into their dreamworld again)
219. Football Post (for making Crewton on the Derby forum cry)
220. Rzarecteh
221. Malcolm Ebiowei
222. Ramstrust and BAWT
223. Belefonte (also made Crewton cry)
224. Forest fans at Peterborough (more crying from Crewton)
225. Erik
226. Size 11 font and Harvard referencing
227. Gamble
228. Wred
229. Winnits
230. Lack of VAR in the Championship (robbing Derby of 30 points!)
231. Tiff
232. Brian Potter
233. Demetrius Andrade
234. Thomas Tuchel
235. Death Cab for Cutie
236. Detroit City FC
237. Colleen Rooney
238. Hugh Tomlinson QC
239. Forest Scaffolding Nottingham Ltd
240. Famous Forestzoe
241. Czeslaw Michniewicz
242. Jeremy Corbyn
243. Rockabilly's flag
244. Augustus
245. Long Eaton Tesco
246. Mrs Beardo7
247. Levi Samuels Colwill
248. Steve Cooper
249. Jonathan Moss
250. Aladdin's lamp
251. EmmersonForest4
252. Transport for London
253. "The gap"
254. Sadiq Khan
255. Meateatingvegan (PNE fan picking on poor little Derby)
256. Depeche Mode
257. East Midlands news
258. Ian Redfern (treacherous and blasphemous Derby fan)
259. Memorial Day/Bank Holidays
260. Glassdoor
261. Manic Street Preachers
262. "Ze list" episode of Dad's Army
263. Gold (channel showing "ze list" episode)
264. jimbobram (Derby fan breaking away from the hive mind)
265. Rafa Nadal
266. The financial police
267. Bury AFC
268. Ramsbottom United
269. Silverdale
270. People being mean to Quantuma
271. James Hooton
272. Emmerdale
273. CBX1985
274. Le Juif Rouge (and his dastardly plans to turn Pride Park into a Sports Direct warehouse)
275. Other EFL clubs
276. Buckeye (poisonous to sheep!)

I read 31 as Santa for a minute, maybe he should be number 277! 

[REDOXO]

39 minutes ago, Marvin said:

The new and improved official Derby County blame list:
1. The EFL
2. Steve Gibson
3. Neil Bausor
4. Middlesbrough
5. Rob Couhig
6. Wycombe
7. Covid
8. The ticket office
9. The HMRC
10. Nicholas Randall
11. Trevor Birch
12. Darren Bent
13. Steve McClaren
14. Danny Higginbotham
15. Richard Keogh
16. The European Super League
17. Sky Sports
18. The Football League paper
19. Burton Albion
20. Derby City Council
21. Mind (the mental health charity)
22. Opposition fans
23. The taxpayer
24. Derby's creditors
25. Forest fans that sit in the Upper Bridgford
26. Rick Parry
27. Brice Samba
28. Jack Colback
29. Simon Jordan
30. ITV Digital
31. Setanta
32. Brian Clough
33. Juventus
34. Tim Robinson
35. Lewis Grabban
36. Brennan Johnson
37. Kenny Burns
38. Nigel Clough
39. Billy Davies
40. LTLF
41. Rockabilly and his curse
42. Derby fans (whilst also being blameless at the same time)
43. Stan Collymore
44. Leeds United
45. Ed Dawes
46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL)
47. Scott McKenna (for heading aeroplanes away that may contain investors, thus preventing Derby's takeover)
48. OK SpidermAndy! (for upsetting Derby fans by querying how long it will be before Derby fans nick Liverpool's "You'll Never Walk Alone" chant)
49. John Percy
50. Rob Dorsett
51. FFSForest (a Twitter user who pointed out how the absence of Derby's "unreal" supporters this season has cost them around £5m, which would help them complete the season. Clearly an EFL stooge!)
52. 166,000 empty seats (probably the fault of the seat manufacturer, rather than their "unreal" fans though)
53. Forest selling players to Olympiacos
54. Liverpool fans, Sheffield police and the Hillsboro/Govt report (making stadiums all seater prevented them from selling 60k every game)
55. Lyle Taylor
56. Adrian Durham
57. Luke Plange and Crystal Palace
58. Matt Donohue
59. Duane Holmes
60. Beardo7 and his £10 bet
61. Holland & Barrett
62. Bobby Zamora
63. Goalposts
64. Kim Leck
65. Aston Villa
66. Myself
67. The Mysterons
68. Captain Black
69. Shaggy
70. The Queen
71. RealRed85
72. Billingham Synthonia FC
73. Text messages
74. Congo_red (for daring to use facts)
75. Chevin Homes (the "preferred" partner in property)
76. Gianluca Di Marzio
77. Pozzo family (Udinese/Watford)
78. Brexit
79. Derby's Category 1 academy
80. Adam Hart-Davis
81. Birmingham City fans
82. Derby forum users Gritstone Tup and Mucker1884 (for breaking away from the hive mind and going against the narrative)
83. Chris Kirchner
84. Chris Doidge (blasphemous BBC Radio Derby presenter)
85. Daniel Taylor
86. Hasbro
87. From Software
88. Atari
89. 32 Red
90. Sheffield Wednesday fans
91. Bouncer the dog
92. Sam Longson
93. Alcohol
94. Leicester City
95. MaxiRobriguez
96. The MLS
97. The Joiners Arms in Quarndon
98. Highways England
99. Middlesbrough fans bringing facts onto Derby's forum
100. Ze list
101. Darren Huckerby
102. Del Boy and Rodney
103. Harry Enfield
104. Jeremy Simpson
105. Mason Bennett
106. Tom Lawrence
107. Ball boys
108. Scott Malone
109. Tubby pitch invaders
110. Kenny Loggins
111. Nathan Thompson
112. Vladimir Putin
113. MPs
114. "Fake" deadlines
115. The Derby Telegraph
116. The Twitter user @derbyram76 (aka Leitrim Ram) (for creating his own version of ze list)
117. Boris Johnson
118. Daleks
119. Derbyshire Mortgage Services (blasphemous mortgage firm)
120. Pancake day
121. Doctor Who and their companions
122. I'm Red Till Dead
123. BBC Radio Derby
124. Colin Fray
125. Uche Ikpeazu
126. Sky Bet
127. Mitchell and Webb
128. Cardiff City fans
129. Bungle from Rainbow (his coke addiction is causing confusion in the Quantuma offices, thus preventing Derby's takeover)
130. Notcher
131. Whoever at Nottingham Forest is asking the EFL to lobby FIFA to let players at Russian clubs walk away from their contracts
132. Chelsea
133. DC Comics
134. Preston North End
135. Billy Joel
136. Igor Novikov
137. Ben Smyth (treacherous "Derby fan" on Twitter slandering Derby's "amazing" supporters)
138. Joel Moore (another Derby traitor on Twitter who is going against the "Fight 'till the end" narrative)
139. Lech Poznan (for having the audacity to ask for money owed to them)
140. Kieran Maguire
141. Truth
142. HBB
143. Evangelos Marinakis
144. David (moderator on the DCFC Fans forum)
145. "Interested parties"
146. Club 84 (a Twitter user who posted a blasphemous image)
147. Alan Nixon
148. Matt Slater
149. Coventry City
150. The sun
151. Jack Marriott
152. The Sex Pistols
153. QPR
154. The Bristol City Forum OTIB
155. Secret squirrels
156. FiveThirtyEight's Super Computer
157. Mr Magoo
158. Douglas Adams
159. Philip Madoc
160. Will Smith and Chris Rock
161. Fawaz Al-Hasawi
162. Hans Von Dunkelroter
163. The Clash
164. Mr Popodopolous
165. The awkward "preferred bidder"
166. Everyone on page 1000 of this thread
167. Strummer
168. India Willoughby
169. Narcissists
170. Reading FC
171. Paul Ince
172. Status Quo
173. Agent Penguin
174. Sam Surridge
175. Joao Carvalho
176. Stoke City
177. Buildabonfire177
178. No Limits Sports Limited
179. 2 Unlimited
180. Golf
181. Obi Wan Kenobi
182. LTLF mods
183. Eddie Yates
184. Peter Ridsdale
185. Guy Moussi
186. RichNFFC's daughter
187. Zak Goulding (PNE fan on Twitter who has upset Derby's new messiah)
188. Alan Hinton
189. Red flags
190. Nathan Tyson
191. Trents
192. Common sense
193. Acrobat
194. ShakeyRed
195. Other teams getting results
196. Baba Rahman
197. Fulham fans
198. Buildabonfire177's friend
199. Rules
200. Luke Amos and Tom McIntyre
201. Captain Sinister
202. Paul Merson
203. Domino's Pizza
204. Jeff Hendrick
205. Accrington Stanley
206. West Brom fans
207. Jimtastic56 (blasphemous poster on Derby's forum criticising "heroic Derby" for their shit away form)
208. Mr Blonde
209. Wigan Athletic
210. EFL Rule 14.3.2
211. Forestjones (for asking for Derby's relegation as a birthday present on Easter Monday)
212. Gene Wilder
213. Ichthyostega
214. People voting Kelle Roos as Derby's Player of the Season (and the lazy, amateurish coding that enables people to do so multiple times)
215. Tombo (Derby fan committing an act of treason)
216. "Jamie" (@dingjme) (a Reading fan who has upset some of our sensitive friends down the road)
217. Flagman
218. Bobby (a QPR fan on Derby's forum bringing that pesky reality thing into their dreamworld again)
219. Football Post (for making Crewton on the Derby forum cry)
220. Rzarecteh
221. Malcolm Ebiowei
222. Ramstrust and BAWT
223. Belefonte (also made Crewton cry)
224. Forest fans at Peterborough (more crying from Crewton)
225. Erik
226. Size 11 font and Harvard referencing
227. Gamble
228. Wred
229. Winnits
230. Lack of VAR in the Championship (robbing Derby of 30 points!)
231. Tiff
232. Brian Potter
233. Demetrius Andrade
234. Thomas Tuchel
235. Death Cab for Cutie
236. Detroit City FC
237. Colleen Rooney
238. Hugh Tomlinson QC
239. Forest Scaffolding Nottingham Ltd
240. Famous Forestzoe
241. Czeslaw Michniewicz
242. Jeremy Corbyn
243. Rockabilly's flag
244. Augustus
245. Long Eaton Tesco
246. Mrs Beardo7
247. Levi Samuels Colwill
248. Steve Cooper
249. Jonathan Moss
250. Aladdin's lamp
251. EmmersonForest4
252. Transport for London
253. "The gap"
254. Sadiq Khan
255. Meateatingvegan (PNE fan picking on poor little Derby)
256. Depeche Mode
257. East Midlands news
258. Ian Redfern (treacherous and blasphemous Derby fan)
259. Memorial Day/Bank Holidays
260. Glassdoor
261. Manic Street Preachers
262. "Ze list" episode of Dad's Army
263. Gold (channel showing "ze list" episode)
264. jimbobram (Derby fan breaking away from the hive mind)
265. Rafa Nadal
266. The financial police
267. Bury AFC
268. Ramsbottom United
269. Silverdale
270. People being mean to Quantuma
271. James Hooton
272. Emmerdale
273. CBX1985
274. Le Juif Rouge (and his dastardly plans to turn Pride Park into a Sports Direct warehouse)
275. Other EFL clubs
276. Buckeye (poisonous to sheep!)

Thanks! I don’t see CK! Cmon Ze List admins keep up!

Edited June 13, 2022 by REDOXO

[BTRFTG]

3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ok. I think we need to be very clear what we mean when we are saying that a club has been expelled from the EFL. It's a pretty serious thing, and getting it wrong will lead to all sorts of incorrect conclusions about the state Derby are in. 

This is about the black and white (together?) of the Articles of Association of The Football League Limited (and related Regulations). Ownership of a share in the The Football League Limited is not symbolic at all, it is the membership ticket that allows a club to participate in the division it is in, to play matches, and to benefit from prize money and other financial distributions. This is why any potential buyer wants to buy the entity to which the share is issued. If a share was symbolic only then one could simply purchase the badge, the IP, maybe the stadium, and have player contracts assigned from that entity, and then participate in the competitions organised by EFL. But that's not the case because Articles and the Regulations say that a 'Member Club' is a club that is a shareholder (although they use the word Member) of The Football League Limited - so an entity can only be a member if you are a shareholder of that company.

Correct. Article 6 is a pretty standard form article prohibiting the transfer of any share without the approval of the Board of the EFL.

Kind of. If by 'EFL' you mean The Football League Limited then of course, when promoted from the Championship or relegated from League 2, a club may - under Regulation 4.1 - resign from membership of The Football League Limited at the end of a season. Resigning in any other way activates the indemnity in Regulation 4.2. The actual obligation on The Football League Limited to accept these resignations is in Regulations 7.7, 7.8, and 10 - those conditions are long and dull but essentially The Football League Limited promise to honour promotion and relegation by enabling the issue and repurchase of such shares as are necessary.

Yes, as set out in my earlier post.

No. Ownership of a share is membership and it's not possible to separate the two concepts. Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) is under Notice that the Board of the The Football League Limited intend to force them to sell their share - the share currently held by Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) - for 5p. That Notice of Withdrawal is referred to in the statement from yesterday "The EFL has today informed the Administrators at Derby County that...it is changing the terms of the suspended Notice of Withdrawal issued when the Club entered into administration in September 2021." and "The suspension of the Notice of Withdrawal of the Club’s share in the EFL is subject to conditions that, in accordance with the League’s insolvency policy, the EFL Board determine...". Both these are consistent with the procedure I set out, as it is set out within the articles of The Football League Limited. This is also clear that a) a Notice has been issued, but b) it is suspended. The Notice is suspended, not the membership.

Furthermore, anecdotally Derby County Football Club (in administration) must have still held (and still does hold) a valid membership after entering administration. If it did not, if it were expelled at the point at which it entered administration, then under the articles and Regulations it had no right to compete in any EFL competition since September 2021. Yet it did.

The Joint Administrators would each individually almost certainly pass the Owners and Directors test. All three are licensed insolvency practitioners and so, given that registration is onerous as well, are unlikely to have been involved in any Disqualifying Event.

The Joint Administrators control a company that holds a share in The Football League Limited. So they do have some power - they control one vote out of the 72 that could feasibly be cast in any EFL vote.

As I said, and as the EFL say in their statement, these powers are imposed under the conditions of the Notice of Withdrawal - ie under article 4.8 of the articles of association. "...the EFL has informed the Administrators that there will be a revision to the conditions attached to the suspension and the EFL is now to be made a party to all correspondence and discussions between the Administrators, and any and all potential bidders, with an acknowledgment that the League will be able to negotiate directly in relation to matters concerning the transfer of the share in the EFL." It is pretty clear. It also supports the argument that Derby County Football Club Ltd remains a Member Club as if it was not a Member Club then it would no longer be bound by article 4.8 and so could simply ignore the EFL's changes to the Notice of Withdrawal...because it would already have been withdrawn from the register of shareholders of the Football League Limited.

In the absence of documentary evidence to the contrary we have to go with the legal structure set out in the articles and Regulations.

I made clear they hadn't been expelled.

I do believe I've previously seen that their membership rights are severly curtailed once entering administration. They hold a share, but that's about it. For example I don't believe they are able to vote or stand for election on any EFL board or committee, nor may their administrators. The administrators don't take beneficial ownership of the company they administer, they administer on behalf of that owner, their creditors and debtors.  Derby remain entitled to distributions via the EFL but I believe the EFL maintain the right to withhold or distribute should they believe the administrators are not acting in terms of the priorities they should. The statement yesterday and the EFL stepping in as they are suggests they did not believe the administrators are acting as they should.

For example, there was nothing in the regulation for the EFL to demand the Administrators run everything past them first, but they have and can. They can amend at will, require no emergency endorsement via other members and that's what they just done.

[Lrrr]

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

You must have that gif ready to go!

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You must have that gif ready to go!

I mean there is a gif function in the comment box 

[Marvin]

24 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Thanks! I don’t see CK! Cmon Ze List admins keep up!

No 83, after he walked away the first time. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

I mean there is a gif function in the comment box 

But it’s your standard go-to gif

[Lrrr]

Just now, Davefevs said:

But it’s your standard go-to gif

Just waiting to be actually shocked by something 

[REDOXO]

5 minutes ago, Marvin said:

No 83, after he walked away the first time. 

Do we think he should be on it twice?

[elhombrecito]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

But it’s your standard go-to gif

It's a shame for Derby that somebody hadn't come along with this gif instead...

[downendcity]

Early withdrawal usually means that you have not been well and truly ****ed.

In Derby's case early withdrawal could mean they have been!

[ExiledAjax]

9 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Thanks! I don’t see CK! Cmon Ze List admins keep up!

Number 83.

[Galley is our king]

BBC reporting CK has withdrawn offer to buy DC.

Huge problems now and right in the if correct 

[CyderInACan]

Woah that thread title-change threw me then! 

[exAtyeoMax]

53 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Woah that thread title-change threw me then! 

Same here!

[ExiledAjax]

11 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

I made clear they hadn't been expelled.

I do believe I've previously seen that their membership rights are severly curtailed once entering administration. They hold a share, but that's about it. For example I don't believe they are able to vote or stand for election on any EFL board or committee, nor may their administrators. The administrators don't take beneficial ownership of the company they administer, they administer on behalf of that owner, their creditors and debtors.  Derby remain entitled to distributions via the EFL but I believe the EFL maintain the right to withhold or distribute should they believe the administrators are not acting in terms of the priorities they should. The statement yesterday and the EFL stepping in as they are suggests they did not believe the administrators are acting as they should.

Ok, I'm not going to argue about what you originally said. The post of yours that I originally quoted is still posted a few pages back, so we can all go and read it if we want to.

But, again you've used the word "believe" several times when describing what Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) or their Joint Administrators can currently do, or can currently benefit from. You say this in relation to the status of Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration) as a Member Club of The English Football League Ltd.

As an example, you say that you don't think Derby currently has the right to vote as an EFL Member Club. OK, let's test that. Firstly, nowhere in the articles of association of The English Football League Ltd or the EFL Regulations does it say that a Club automatically loses this right upon entering administration. In fact the articles (in particular 10.10, 11.5, 12) suggest, although voting rights are not expressly addressed, that any club that is a Member Club (ie any entity that holds a share from time to time) is entitled to vote. From my reading it looks like the only way this right to vote could possibly have been removed is if it was one of the conditions to suspension contained within the Notice of Withdrawal. Now we haven't seen that document, so we cannot be sure of the exact conditions contained within it.

However, if the right to vote was purported to be removed from Derby under the Notice of Withdrawal then that would amount to an amendment of the rights attaching to a share. As all shares of the same class must have the same rights (otherwise you're deemed to have created a new class of share), then (in the absence of anything in the articles) doing this should require a special resolution of the other shareholders of that class of share (ie 75% of the 71 other clubs) to alter those share rights. We'd also see a filing on Companies House to that effect. No such filing is shown on the Companies House webpage for The English Football League Ltd, and so we can assume this has not happened. Therefore we should assume that Derby are still able to vote as a Member Club.

You are correct that no Derby representative can stand for election to the Board of the EFL. That's in the articles (article 20.1.14). They also cannot put forward anyone to be an EFL rep on the FA's board (article 24.6.12).

Of course the Joint Administrators don't take beneficial ownership of the shares of the company they administer. Is that relevant to Derby County Football Club Limited (in administration)'s membership of the EFL? Membership is determined by ownership of a share - ie ownership of legal title, not beneficial ownership. I agree that the statement yesterday and the EFL stepping in as they are suggests that the EFL do not believe the administrators are acting as they should...but that statement and actions doesn't in anyway suggest that Derby are no longer a Member Club.

11 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

For example, there was nothing in the regulation for the EFL to demand the Administrators run everything past them first, but they have and can. They can amend at will, require no emergency endorsement via other members and that's what they just done.

Yes. That is exactly what article (not regulation) 4.8 says. There is no problem with them doing that at all because it's in the rules - rules that apply to Derby because they are a member of the EFL.

I'm not trying to point score or argue, and I do agree with some aspects of what you say, there are some things that Derby (or its admins and directors etc) cannot do because they are in admin. However, this conversation needs to be held on certain terms. I'm stating the certainty of the articles, the regulations, and corporate law. You are stating occurrences that if true have big consequences, but you're not providing evidence to support your beliefs. Saying they've been expelled, saying they cannot vote anymore, this sort of stuff feeds the fantasy 'EFL vendetta' nonsense that Derby fans are spouting. It undermines confidence in the EFL as a body, and sows seeds of confusion amongst fans.

[Merrick's Marvels]

So how come Kirchner passed the EFL's owners and directors test? And what sort of proof of funding did he provide them with? What a shambles.

Oh well, never mind. 

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

So how come Kirchner passed the EFL's owners and directors test? And what sort of proof of funding did he provide them with? What a shambles.

Oh well, never mind. 

If you think that’s bad Lawrence Bassini is supposedly taking over Birmingham…

The whole thing is a total shambles, the direct consequence of letting Wild West capitalism loose on football.

We’re never putting the genie back in the bottle now, but how we got to this place is shameful.

[Merrick's Marvels]

4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

If you think that’s bad Lawrence Bassini is supposedly taking over Birmingham…

The whole thing is a total shambles, the direct consequence of letting Wild West capitalism loose on football.

We’re never putting the genie back in the bottle now, but how we got to this place is shameful.

Rick Parry's got his work cut out. 

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Rick Parry's got his work cut out. 

Rumour is it’s as a front for David Sullivan who can’t own 2 clubs..

[sephjnr]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Rumour is it’s as a front for David Sullivan who can’t own 2 clubs..

At least David Sullivan can see a football ground for more than the blocks of flats he can sell it for.

Edited June 14, 2022 by sephjnr