green football shirts to be banned?

[Never to the dark side]

in Italy

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/serie-a-bans-teams-from-wearing-green-kits-from-2022-23-season-onwards/ar-AAMcgXs?ocid=uxbndlbing

Edited July 16, 2021 by Never to the dark side

[ExiledAjax]

Oh my god please. They are atrocious for those of us with red/green colourblindness. In the game v Celtic I could only really distinguish the teams by our white shorts. Everything else, when moving at speed and on TV is tough* to distinguish. Same as the annual Wales v Ireland rugby match.

*not impossible, but tough to the point that it makes it unpleasant to watch.

[Steve Watts]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Oh my god please. They are atrocious for those of us with red/green colourblindness. In the game v Celtic I could only really distinguish the teams by our white shorts. Everything else, when moving at speed and on TV is tough* to distinguish. Same as the annual Wales v Ireland rugby match.

*not impossible, but tough to the point that it makes it unpleasant to watch.

Genuine question and 100% not a piss take....but how do you cope with the City kit and the pitch?

[SecretSam]

24 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

Genuine question and 100% not a piss take....but how do you cope with the City kit and the pitch?

One of them is moving about?

[Tinmans Love Child]

27 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

Genuine question and 100% not a piss take....but how do you cope with the City kit and the pitch?

I’m colour blind and red/green and blue/purple are the biggest clash.  I’m 42 and I only found out last year that Dairy Milk wrappers are purple and not dark blue, true story!

re: City players wearing red on green pitch it has no impact for me, I guess I know City play in red so not a problem!  

[Leveller]

34 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

One of them is moving about?

I know. I blame the groundsman. Or it could be the drink.

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

Genuine question and 100% not a piss take....but how do you cope with the City kit and the pitch?

Haha, a fair question that I will try to explain.

Ok, so being "colourblind" doesn't mean I do not see colour. Basically I just see red and green less intensely than most. In reality this affects my daily life very little, however there are some circumstances where it does cause issues.

I find that when multiple shades of red/green/brown (or blue/purple or white/pink) are present and 'mixed' together - I have trouble distinguishing them.

So, where it is just City in red versus a green pitch, it's basically fine. That's one strong clear shade of red on a strong, clear green background. I probably don't see the green as brightly as you, but I can see the players just fine. It's when a third option is introduced that the struggle begins for me, especially if, as on Wednesday, that third option is a darker green like Celtic wore. Another example is a snooker table - apparently there are green and brown balls on that thing but all I've ever seen is a bunch of reds at one end, and then two others next to the yellow ball in baulk.

As @Tinmans Love Child says, actually I more often have issues seeing purple. I've had numerous pieces of clothing that I've thought are blue, only to be told years later they are purple. Our purple kit really isn't that offensively bright to me either. It's all because I don't perceive the red element of the purple very well, and so it comes across as a muted blue.

I absolutely refuse to believe in made up colours like 'turquoise', 'magenta' and 'cyan'.

Caveat all the above with the fact that colourblindness is very much a spectral issue (pardon the pun) and everyone that 'suffers' from it will be affected in a slightly different way, and will have a slightly different experience.

Edited July 16, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[BCFCinNW6]

21 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Haha, a fair question that I will try to explain.

Ok, so being "colourblind" doesn't mean I do not see colour. Basically I just see red and green less intensely than most. In reality this affects my daily life very little, however there are some circumstances where it does cause issues.

I find that when multiple shades of red/green/brown (or blue/purple or white/pink) are present and 'mixed' together - I have trouble distinguishing them.

So, where it is just City in red versus a green pitch, it's basically fine. That's one strong clear shade of red on a strong, clear green background. I probably don't see the green as brightly as you, but I can see the players just fine. It's when a third option is introduced that the struggle begins for me, especially if, as on Wednesday, that third option is a darker green like Celtic wore. Another example is a snooker table - apparently there are green and brown balls on that thing but all I've ever seen is a bunch of reds at one end, and then two others next to the yellow ball in baulk.

As @Tinmans Love Child says, actually I more often have issues seeing purple. I've had numerous pieces of clothing that I've thought are blue, only to be told years later they are purple. Our purple kit really isn't that offensively bright to me either. It's all because I don't perceive the red element of the purple very well, and so it comes across as a muted blue.

I absolutely refuse to believe in made up colours like 'turquoise', 'magenta' and 'cyan'.

Caveat all the above with the fact that colourblindness is very much a spectral issue (pardon the pun) and everyone that 'suffers' from it will be affected in a slightly different way, and will have a slightly different experience.

This was really insightful, thanks for sharing. 

(pardon another pun!).  

 

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, BCFCinNW6 said:

This was really insightful, thanks for sharing. 

(pardon another pun!).  

No worries. It's such a weird "disability" to have as for 90% of those that have it, 90% of the time it's just not an issue.

Buy then, every now and then, it can be really embarrassing and cause serious issues. 

One other 'everyday' example. You know the little LED lights everything has nowadays, the ones that tell you when something is charging or is charged? Well, apparently they are often orange or red if charging, and change colour when the device is charged. Do they heck! I basically just have to guess, or just leave stuff for ages. 

Same on my internet router. If the internet's not working then my wife has to sort it out as I've no idea which light is flashing red, orange, amber etc. No idea at all.

But anyway. Down with green football kits!

Edited July 16, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[BCFC Rich]

I have the same. @Tinmans Love Child I just found that out via your post .

 

The worst for me was playing cricket. If the ball ended up in long grass just outside the boundary of the pitch I played out it was basically invisible to me. Could jot for a nd it even if looking right at it! 

[slartibartfast]

35 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

 

Same on my internet router. If the internet's not working then my wife has to sort it out as I've no idea which light is flashing red, orange, amber etc. No idea at all.

But anyway. Down with green football kits!

Yes,I can relate to that, to me they are just either on or they're off , what the **** the colours are.............

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Yes,I can relate to that, to me they are just either on or they're off , what the **** the colours are.............

I only learned that car brake lights and indicators are different colours when I did my theory test at 17. Genuinely still don't really see it, I only know they're different because I've been told so.

[GreedyHarry]

1 hour ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I’m colour blind and red/green and blue/purple are the biggest clash.  I’m 42 and I only found out last year that Dairy Milk wrappers are purple and not dark blue, true story!

re: City players wearing red on green pitch it has no impact for me, I guess I know City play in red so not a problem!  

**** me. I’ve just learnt that today. Purple is my nemesis. Either blue or pink to me. Quite often I guess it’s purple when I can’t decide which colour it is, but Dairy Milk being purple never occurred to me.

My worst error was buying ink cartridges for school. We had to have blue or black ink. There was a great offer on “Peacock Blue” so I bought a job lot and was pleased as punch until the **** of an English teacher refused to mark my work as apparently it was turquoise.

Edited July 16, 2021 by GreedyHarry
Spelling

[Slacker]

When I got married many moons ago,I wore a suit for the first and last time in my life.I wanted to get a blue suit and the future Mrs Slacker helped me choose one.It was many years later when she admitted she helped me choose a suit in her preferred colour of green and just let me believe it was blue.

[Maltshoveller]

55 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I only learned that car brake lights and indicators are different colours when I did my theory test at 17. Genuinely still don't really see it, I only know they're different because I've been told so.

Do you drive a BMW?

[RedM]

Really interesting, obviously I knew colour blindness existed but never had any experience at all. I never knew it was so varied, I thought people either saw certain colours or they didn’t. I guess it is similar to that white/blue/gold dress thing that swept the Internet a few years ago, everyone is different.

i certainly didn’t realise it affected so many people. More males than females if I remember correctly?

[Offside]

I’m colour blind and, like others have said, I don’t really notice it most of the time. In football, though, if City are playing a team in a dark kit I often rely on our white shorts to be able to distinguish between the teams, particularly in evening games. So I’ve always hated it when City wear all red at home.

Similarly, when I play FIFA in City’s all black away kit against a team in all red I find it quite difficult to tell the difference. 

I’m glad I’m not the only one!

 

 

[Offside]

And until reading this thread I always thought the Dairy Milk wrapper was dark blue. You live and learn!

[ExiledAjax]

24 minutes ago, RedM said:

More males than females if I remember correctly?

Vastly more. IIRC it is something in the region of 1 in 12 men and 1 in 200 women that have some measurable level of red-green colourblindness. There are a couple of other, more niche variants of colourblindness, and of course many millions go through life without any formal diagnoses, and their only experience of it amounts to a couple of strange anecdotal stories where they got a colour wrong for whatever reason.

When you look at that kind of prevalence, and then look at a male-dominated group of people like a football crowd, then you start to see why I think organisations need to take it a little more seriously. You're probably talking about something like 1,500-2,000 people in an average AG crowd who have some level of the condition. It's not negligible.

I am relatively mild - maybe a 6 out of 10 for severity. I also was lucky and got diagnosed very early in life as my parents are optometrists and so spotted it very early on. Most kids get diagnosed later when it inevitably becomes an issue at school.

1 minute ago, Offside said:

I’m colour blind and, like others have said, I don’t really notice it most of the time. In football, though, if City are playing a team in a dark kit I often rely on our white shorts to be able to distinguish between the teams, particularly in evening games. So I’ve always hated it when City wear all red at home.

Similarly, when I play FIFA in City’s all black away kit against a team in all red I find it quite difficult to tell the difference. 

I’m glad I’m not the only one!

Far from it! the red/black thing is really tricky. Don't know about you but when someone edits a word doc and uses red to show their changes...yeh that can be tricky. I always edit and mark up docs using a bright blue.

[Offside]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Vastly more. IIRC it is something in the region of 1 in 12 men and 1 in 200 women that have some measurable level of red-green colourblindness. There are a couple of other, more niche variants of colourblindness, and of course many millions go through life without any formal diagnoses, and their only experience of it amounts to a couple of strange anecdotal stories where they got a colour wrong for whatever reason.

When you look at that kind of prevalence, and then look at a male-dominated group of people like a football crowd, then you start to see why I think organisations need to take it a little more seriously. You're probably talking about something like 1,500-2,000 people in an average AG crowd who have some level of the condition. It's not negligible.

I am relatively mild - maybe a 6 out of 10 for severity. I also was lucky and got diagnosed very early in life as my parents are optometrists and so spotted it very early on. Most kids get diagnosed later when it inevitably becomes an issue at school.

Far from it! the red/black thing is really tricky. Don't know about you but when someone edits a word doc and uses red to show their changes...yeh that can be tricky. I always edit and mark up docs using a bright blue.

Yep, me too, I find that really difficult on Word!

I remember being given those colour blindness tests as a kid (the ones with different colour dots and a number) and I thought it was a conspiracy cos all I saw was dots. 

[ExiledAjax]

Just been googling and there's actually already some pretty comprehensive FA/FIFA guidance for clubs and associations regarding colourblindness.

https://www.colourblindawareness.org/colour-blindness-and-sport/guidance-documents/

This document is lengthy, but provides (apparently, I can't tell really) some examples of how the world looks to those of us with colourblindness. It also runs through some of the most common kit issues and issues around signage at stadia.

https://www.colourblindawareness.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/FA_COLOUR_BLINDNESS_IN_FOOTBALL_ENG.pdf

People may be interested in reading if they've already watched some paint dry tonight.

[GreedyHarry]

48 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

Far from it! the red/black thing is really tricky. Don't know about you but when someone edits a word doc and uses red to show their changes...yeh that can be tricky. I always edit and mark up docs using a bright blue.

With you on that. I do bright blue or bright green depending on how cantankerous the receiver is.

Also got into the habit of sending back any amendments allegedly in red and ask for it to be changed. I work in an industry where they are very quick to tell me jobs I cannot do because of colourblindness so I make a point of acknowledging my inability to perceive certain colours.

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, GreedyHarry said:

With you on that. I do bright blue or bright green depending on how cantankerous the receiver is.

Also got into the habit of sending back any amendments allegedly in red and ask for it to be changed. I work in an industry where they are very quick to tell me jobs I cannot do because of colourblindness so I make a point of acknowledging my inability to perceive certain colours.

So I am a lawyer. I trained in 2013 and did part of my training in the property law department. Property lawyers have a very particular way that they colour in the borders of a map to show how a bit of land is parcelled up. IIRC it goes piece 1 = red, piece 2 = green, piece 3 = pink, piece 4 = brown. It honestly could not be worse hierarchy for those of us with colourblindness. As a trainee I was asked to colour code a plan. I asked, out of interest, if the colour hierarchy was a legal thing, and was told no, it was just custom. Cool thought I, and off I trotted. I grabbed my red, blue, yellow, and black pens and proceeded to use my own, brand new colourblind friendly hierarchy to colour code the plan.

Upon turning it...honestly I've rarely received a bigger bollocking at work. The partner was incredulous. "But you said it was just customary" I said innocently...well it turns out that 300 years of property law 'custom' wasn't about to be overturned by one smart arsed trainee. I had to re-do it, torturously trying to figure out if I was using red/pink/green/brown correctly.

And I swore to never, ever, do property law again.

[cider11]

3 hours ago, Offside said:

I’m colour blind and, like others have said, I don’t really notice it most of the time. In football, though, if City are playing a team in a dark kit I often rely on our white shorts to be able to distinguish between the teams, particularly in evening games. So I’ve always hated it when City wear all red at home.

Similarly, when I play FIFA in City’s all black away kit against a team in all red I find it quite difficult to tell the difference. 

I’m glad I’m not the only one!

 

 

When I’ve been looking in the settings of fifa (may have been another EA game) I thought in the accessibility settings you can now put in about colour blindness to change the colours in the game slightly. I may be wrong there.

[slartibartfast]

7 hours ago, Never to the dark side said:

in Italy

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/serie-a-bans-teams-from-wearing-green-kits-from-2022-23-season-onwards/ar-AAMcgXs?ocid=uxbndlbing

I thought it was a ban on shirts made of wicker, or something !

[BCFC Rich]

5 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I only learned that car brake lights and indicators are different colours when I did my theory test at 17. Genuinely still don't really see it, I only know they're different because I've been told so.

On a lot of American made cars the brake light is the indicator! So they are red.

[Always Believesham]

I, like a few on this thread have to make do with colourblindness (interesting to read your experiences, it's frustrating how difficult some things are - especially when you have no experience of them). I shared my experiences with the team at work and did a little bit of research but am absolutely no expert in this. Aparently there are rods and cones that work together in your eyes so regular eyesight can detect 1 million colours. If one of the cones is not quite aligned perfectly you can loose tens of thousands of shades for the smallest defection.

Football has never really been difficult for me in person (except the occasional confusing orange shirts with the yellow bibs used in 5-a-side) until really recently. In the space of 2 weeks, the one group I played with started using two lots of bibs that I can't even describe the colours of. Another game, one I organise, someone brought a ball I couldn't distinguish from the pitch. I felt like a dick to be honest - I've profusely apologised to the bloke with the ball and offered to get him a white ball out of the kitty. It was good of him to be on hand for if I'm late (fortunately if I'm not there, the problem's gone away!). I've never really struggled when at a game but can't remember any tricky colour clashes involving city, and even watching teams in the flesh, where seats are often the same colour as the home shirts, it's never been an issue.

Watching on tv is a different matter though - there have been some classics in the past with Brighton in green and Southampton in red being one of the high profile recent ones. Did any of the colourblind city followers watch our game at home to Birmingham or Milwall last season? The red/green clash was too much for me - I had to take a break from watching. Watching City takes a painful concentration at the best of times, this was too much!

Generally speaking, it's not that much of a problem these days, because the colours or shades are accessible on a computer (with an RGB value) and lights tend to have a place or do something like flash - but the whole red light/orange light thing can be hard (I tend to go by whether the speaker in question is chucking out sound or not, it's not sophisticated or sustainable). At least playing fifa I'll scroll through kits if I have to (or can).

My partner is fascinated by all the crazy stuff I can't see properly, there's an app that shows people with normal colour vision, what it's like. Apparently it's amazing. Just for good measure I didn't know the dairy milk thing either, although it was going through 30 years of my life thinking peanut butter was green that tips people over the edge.

[havanatopia]

There are quite a few Italian sides wearing green since they were formed. They are being told to throw away their history.

No doubt if its forced without a revolt, tough call in Italy, other countries will likely follow suit 

Unnecessary tinkering.

Then they will do more studies and say Purple is not allowed.

Being colour blind is not nice, clearly, but is this the right way ?

[City oz]

1 hour ago, solihull cider red said:

I, like a few on this thread have to make do with colourblindness (interesting to read your experiences, it's frustrating how difficult some things are - especially when you have no experience of them). I shared my experiences with the team at work and did a little bit of research but am absolutely no expert in this. Aparently there are rods and cones that work together in your eyes so regular eyesight can detect 1 million colours. If one of the cones is not quite aligned perfectly you can loose tens of thousands of shades for the smallest defection.

Football has never really been difficult for me in person (except the occasional confusing orange shirts with the yellow bibs used in 5-a-side) until really recently. In the space of 2 weeks, the one group I played with started using two lots of bibs that I can't even describe the colours of. Another game, one I organise, someone brought a ball I couldn't distinguish from the pitch. I felt like a dick to be honest - I've profusely apologised to the bloke with the ball and offered to get him a white ball out of the kitty. It was good of him to be on hand for if I'm late (fortunately if I'm not there, the problem's gone away!). I've never really struggled when at a game but can't remember any tricky colour clashes involving city, and even watching teams in the flesh, where seats are often the same colour as the home shirts, it's never been an issue.

Watching on tv is a different matter though - there have been some classics in the past with Brighton in green and Southampton in red being one of the high profile recent ones. Did any of the colourblind city followers watch our game at home to Birmingham or Milwall last season? The red/green clash was too much for me - I had to take a break from watching. Watching City takes a painful concentration at the best of times, this was too much!

Generally speaking, it's not that much of a problem these days, because the colours or shades are accessible on a computer (with an RGB value) and lights tend to have a place or do something like flash - but the whole red light/orange light thing can be hard (I tend to go by whether the speaker in question is chucking out sound or not, it's not sophisticated or sustainable). At least playing fifa I'll scroll through kits if I have to (or can).

My partner is fascinated by all the crazy stuff I can't see properly, there's an app that shows people with normal colour vision, what it's like. Apparently it's amazing. Just for good measure I didn't know the dairy milk thing either, although it was going through 30 years of my life thinking peanut butter was green that tips people over the edge.

It is a fasinating subject. When I was an apprentice Electrician 0ne week in four was spend at South Bristol Technical College. One of the other guys in our class was colour blind. His was with red and green. At that time red was the live active conductor and green was the earth conductor. We all chipped in and helped him where we could. During the end of our four year apprenticeship the green earth conductor was gradually phased out and it changed to green and yellow. This helped him and many other electricians. He still works as a sparky in Bristol today.

[Always Believesham]

1 hour ago, havanatopia said:

There are quite a few Italian sides wearing green since they were formed. They are being told to throw away their history.

No doubt if its forced without a revolt, tough call in Italy, other countries will likely follow suit 

Unnecessary tinkering.

Then they will do more studies and say Purple is not allowed.

Being colour blind is not nice, clearly, but is this the right way ?

Green shirts aren't the problem in my experience, but there may be people that can't see the green on green & wouldn't be surprised if people were having issues (I do wonder if what it's actually causing problems with is the technology that enables them to sell different adverts in different countries on the pitchside advertising). Back in the black and white TV days, weren't there generally accepted colours etc that couldn't be used?

I would advocate guidance for clubs (& referees) that preferred stripes or distinctly different colours rather than outright banning colours.

5 minutes ago, City oz said:

It is a fasinating subject. When I was an apprentice Electrician 0ne week in four was spend at South Bristol Technical College. One of the other guys in our class was colour blind. His was with red and green. At that time red was the live active conductor and green was the earth conductor. We all chipped in and helped him where we could. During the end of our four year apprenticeship the green earth conductor was gradually phased out and it changed to green and yellow. This helped him and many other electricians. He still works as a sparky in Bristol today.

Tried that one with a few electrical diy jobs round the house - partner's father pointed out the new wires and suggested I might be able to give it a go in future now that we've seen the newer wires. I've realised that was just an excuse for me & I'm not particularly confident with electrical odd jobs.

[Tinmans Love Child]

12 hours ago, GreedyHarry said:

**** me. I’ve just learnt that today. Purple is my nemesis. Either blue or pink to me. Quite often I guess it’s purple when I can’t decide which colour it is, but Dairy Milk being purple never occurred to me.

My worst error was buying ink cartridges for school. We had to have blue or black ink. There was a great offer on “Peacock Blue” so I bought a job lot and was pleased as punch until the **** of an English teacher refused to mark my work as apparently it was turquoise.

My biggest error was wearing my Dads white shirt to school when mine were all dirty and not realising it was very pale pink!

[Tinmans Love Child]

I really want to try the colourblind fixing glasses has anybody used them?  
 

https://youtu.be/PAhS9ktBJCY

[Tinmans Love Child]

When I first met my wife and I told her I was colour blind she said to me ‘you do realise I’m ginger don’t you!’

So glad I’m not the only one who didn’t know Dairy Milk has a purple wrapper!

[City oz]

6 hours ago, solihull cider red said:

Green shirts aren't the problem in my experience, but there may be people that can't see the green on green & wouldn't be surprised if people were having issues (I do wonder if what it's actually causing problems with is the technology that enables them to sell different adverts in different countries on the pitchside advertising). Back in the black and white TV days, weren't there generally accepted colours etc that couldn't be used?

I would advocate guidance for clubs (& referees) that preferred stripes or distinctly different colours rather than outright banning colours.

Tried that one with a few electrical diy jobs round the house - partner's father pointed out the new wires and suggested I might be able to give it a go in future now that we've seen the newer wires. I've realised that was just an excuse for me & I'm not particularly confident with electrical odd jobs.

What did you have one of these to wire up 

 

 

[ExiledAjax]

13 hours ago, solihull cider red said:

Did any of the colourblind city followers watch our game at home to Birmingham or Milwall last season?

Awful. The Birmingham kit I remember being particularly terrible. 

On 5 a side kits you have my sympathy. My old team decided we'd play in purple. Obviously at least two other teams in the league used blue...so yeh those games went as well for me as you can imagine.

12 hours ago, havanatopia said:

Being colour blind is not nice, clearly, but is this the right way ?

It's 1 in 12 blokes. So that's almost an average of 1 player in each team. It's a big number of people. It's not on the level of some disabilities, of course it isn't, but it does affect players.

As I posted above, there's already extensive guidance on how to make kits accessible. Honestly, my view is that with most teams having three kits, you should always be able to get a combination that satisfies everyone. But that relies on clubs, and officials to make intelligent choices when deciding which kits to wear for a particular fixture.

If those clubs that traditionally wear green (the article says only Sassuolo in Serie A) are happy to have a white, blue, or otherwise drastically different away kit then great, when they play a team in red they need to remember to bring the white kit, and put the green to one side for a game.

The Birmingham game last season is a great example. Why didn't they wear their blue kit when they played us? Why that green one? 

As I say, there's FIFA/UEFA guidance on this already, it just needs to be read and implemented.

[ExiledAjax]

6 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I really want to try the colourblind fixing glasses has anybody used them?  
 

https://youtu.be/PAhS9ktBJCY

My parents got a set from the states to try out on patients. I was the Guinea pig. Honestly it was an absolute sensory overload. Stuff was really vivid, very bright, there was green bloody everywhere

I tried them for a day and decided I was happy in my muted world, even if I do wear purple every now and then, and sometimes struggle with the odd football kit.

[Steve Watts]

On 16/07/2021 at 16:24, SecretSam said:

One of them is moving about?

Did you watch us at all last season...? The grass probably moved more!!!

[Sleepy1968]

On 17/07/2021 at 06:39, Tinmans Love Child said:

I really want to try the colourblind fixing glasses has anybody used them?  
 

https://youtu.be/PAhS9ktBJCY

There is no cure for inherited colour blindness. If there were every optician that I've ever seen would be trying to upsell me. You can however, get glasses to help with some types of acquired colour-blindness (at least according to the spec-savers aussie website.)

[TedsHeadIs Red]

On 16/07/2021 at 18:33, Slacker said:

When I got married many moons ago,I wore a suit for the first and last time in my life.I wanted to get a blue suit and the future Mrs Slacker helped me choose one.It was many years later when she admitted she helped me choose a suit in her preferred colour of green and just let me believe it was blue.

She wanted to marry a bloke in a green suit?

[Fordy62]

On 16/07/2021 at 17:00, ExiledAjax said:

Haha, a fair question that I will try to explain.

Ok, so being "colourblind" doesn't mean I do not see colour. Basically I just see red and green less intensely than most. In reality this affects my daily life very little, however there are some circumstances where it does cause issues.

I find that when multiple shades of red/green/brown (or blue/purple or white/pink) are present and 'mixed' together - I have trouble distinguishing them.

So, where it is just City in red versus a green pitch, it's basically fine. That's one strong clear shade of red on a strong, clear green background. I probably don't see the green as brightly as you, but I can see the players just fine. It's when a third option is introduced that the struggle begins for me, especially if, as on Wednesday, that third option is a darker green like Celtic wore. Another example is a snooker table - apparently there are green and brown balls on that thing but all I've ever seen is a bunch of reds at one end, and then two others next to the yellow ball in baulk.

As @Tinmans Love Child says, actually I more often have issues seeing purple. I've had numerous pieces of clothing that I've thought are blue, only to be told years later they are purple. Our purple kit really isn't that offensively bright to me either. It's all because I don't perceive the red element of the purple very well, and so it comes across as a muted blue.

I absolutely refuse to believe in made up colours like 'turquoise', 'magenta' and 'cyan'.

Caveat all the above with the fact that colourblindness is very much a spectral issue (pardon the pun) and everyone that 'suffers' from it will be affected in a slightly different way, and will have a slightly different experience.

Officially the most interesting thing I’ve ever read on OTIB. Thanks. 

[ralphindevon]

If I’m higher up in a stand watching cricket I struggle to see the ball when played along the ground.

However, when they started using a pink ball in some day night games I couldn’t see it at all, to the point when the crowd roared at a big hit I had to duck down as I wasn’t sure if it was coming my way.

Luckily I wasn’t the only one and I don’t think they use it anymore 

[Slacker]

3 hours ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

She wanted to marry a bloke in a green suit?

I know.Thats why I wanted a blue one.

[Tinmans Love Child]

5 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

There is no cure for inherited colour blindness. If there were every optician that I've ever seen would be trying to upsell me. You can however, get glasses to help with some types of acquired colour-blindness (at least according to the spec-savers aussie website.)

Yeh I appreciate there’s no cure, The link I shared was about the very same glasses you’ve mentioned

[Sleepy1968]

1 hour ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Yeh I appreciate there’s no cure, The link I shared was about the very same glasses you’ve mentioned

Ok, cool. I probably should have taken a look before posting.

[ExiledAjax]

18 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Officially the most interesting thing I’ve ever read on OTIB. Thanks. 

No worries. Always happy to answer questions on this subject.

Edited July 19, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[Leveller]

Well this is all very intriguing. I’ve known I was slightly colour blind since I was a teenager. At the time, it was a bolt from the blue (to coin a pun). Like many others, I was tested at school, with a book of pictures made up of circles of different colours. Some of the images were blindingly obvious (sorry about the puns) but the majority just looked like pleasing groups of various pastel shades, so I couldn’t make out the various numbers or whatever were represented. I could, though, tell that the colours were different.

Seeing as there were a lot of those I couldn’t differentiate, clearly my “slight” colour blindness is more acute than I admit. However, without that test, to this day I don’t think I’d have known. I have no issues with true red and green or any other practical problems. My only colour issues are when I choose a garment in a clothes shop and can’t decide whether it’s green or brown. I remain convinced there is a greenish brown shade that is somewhere in the middle. But no doubt people with normal colour vision see a clear distinction I don’t.

So for those with normal colour vision - there are a lot of colour blind people out here that barely know it and who rarely run into  any practical issues because of it. We don’t know what it is we can’t see. 

[ExiledAjax]

An update.

After the Boro v City game in the summer I emailed the Club/SLO/SC&T to ask if they (and Hummel) would take the FA/FIFA guidelines - linked in the quoted post below - into consideration when designing next seasons kits, and if possible, when deciding what kit to wear in each match. The SC&T (I think @Blagdon red perhaps?) brought this to the clubs attention in one of their recent Zoom meetings. I have been told that although it was the final item on a very lengthy agenda, Richard Gould and the others said that yes, they would consider the guidance and take it into consideration.

This is great news. As a club we already have three traditional distinctive kits - Red/White home, White/Black away, and Purple/Green third. With those three colour palettes to choose from we really should be able to have a kit clash that works for everyone in every game we play. 

We will see what we get in in the spring, but I am hopeful we won't have too many repeats of the Celtic friendly, the Boro game, or even to a lesser extent last night's match with Millwall.

On 16/07/2021 at 19:59, ExiledAjax said:

Just been googling and there's actually already some pretty comprehensive FA/FIFA guidance for clubs and associations regarding colourblindness.

https://www.colourblindawareness.org/colour-blindness-and-sport/guidance-documents/

This document is lengthy, but provides (apparently, I can't tell really) some examples of how the world looks to those of us with colourblindness. It also runs through some of the most common kit issues and issues around signage at stadia.

https://www.colourblindawareness.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/FA_COLOUR_BLINDNESS_IN_FOOTBALL_ENG.pdf

People may be interested in reading if they've already watched some paint dry tonight.

@Leveller @Tinmans Love Child @Slacker

Edited September 30, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[Rudolf Hucker]

4 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

An update.

After the Boro v City game in the summer I emailed the Club/SLO/SC&T to ask if they (and Hummel) would take the FA/FIFA guidelines - linked in the quoted post below - into consideration when designing next seasons kits, and if possible, when deciding what kit to wear in each match. The SC&T (I think @Blagdon red perhaps?) brought this to the clubs attention in one of their recent Zoom meetings. I have been told that although it was the final item on a very lengthy agenda, Richard Gould and the others said that yes, they would consider the guidance and take it into consideration.

This is great news. As a club we already have three traditional distinctive kits - Red/White home, White/Black away, and Purple/Green third. With those three colour palettes to choose from we really should be able to have a kit clash that works for everyone in every game we play. 

We will see what we get in in the spring, but I am hopeful we won't have too many repeats of the Celtic friendly, the Boro game, or even to a lesser extent last night's match with Millwall.

@Leveller @Tinmans Love Child @Slacker

I too am colourblind. Watching last night’s match v Millwall on TV I struggled, at times, to differentiate players from the two teams as both wore (to me!) white shorts.

I’ve always believed that competing teams had to wear contrasting shirts, shorts and socks so that players and officials could have no possibility to mistake combatants in the heat of battle. Has this rule been changed or was it an oversight by everybody’s favourite kitman which was sanctioned by the referee? 

[ExiledAjax]

27 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

I too am colourblind. Watching last night’s match v Millwall on TV I struggled, at times, to differentiate players from the two teams as both wore (to me!) white shorts.

I’ve always believed that competing teams had to wear contrasting shirts, shorts and socks so that players and officials could have no possibility to mistake combatants in the heat of battle. Has this rule been changed or was it an oversight by everybody’s favourite kitman which was sanctioned by the referee? 

So the Laws of the Game published by the FA requires only that:

• The two teams must wear colours that distinguish them from each other and the match officials; and
• Each goalkeeper must wear colours that are distinguishable from the other players and the match officials; and
• If the two goalkeepers’ shirts are the same colour and neither has another shirt, the referee allows the match to be played.

That's it.

I believe it is then up to the teams to decide what kit they will wear, and for referees to then approve prior to the game that the two kits comply with the above. Referees might have some further guidance, but ultimately if team A turns up with Red, and team B turns up with Green...what can they really do. I believe most teams take two kits to games, but I suspect this isn't always the case. Of course there was a famous case involving Mansfield and some other club in 2014 where a spare kit was used...but I don't think that was to do with the colours. I also remember Man Utd changing kit at half time back in the 90's - I think that was a case of players struggling to distinguish each other. There is some small precedent there.

On last night's game, honestly I understand that to 'normal' sighted people Red v Dark Blue is fine. I suspect down on the ground it was better than it was on TV as well. However, I agree with you that when the long camera shot was used, on a fairly low resolution stream like RobinsTV, under floodlights, well it was tricky to distinguish people. For me it wasn't as bad as the Celtic friendly or the Boro game in the summer, but it wasn't comfortable.

To be fair to Scotty and the club - if no one raises the issue to them then I wouldn't expect them to think of it independently.

As I said, the SC&T told me today that the club have noted my email and will take the FA guidance under consideration when designing future kits. I then listened to the @3 Peaps In A PodCast episode with JL, and he said that 2022/23's kits have been signed off a few weeks ago, so I suspect the first kits we would see that have expressly had regard to the guidance will be for 2023/24. 

However, I hope that doesn't stop us working with our remaining opponents this season to try and minimise these kit blends in our remaining fixtures.

Hearing from others on this thread is useful btw as it means that if we approach the Club about this we have a record showing that this isn't just a tiny fraction of the fanbase.

[Pezo]

On 18/07/2021 at 21:12, Slacker said:

I know.Thats why I wanted a blue one.

Blue - you choose blue. I suppose you couldn't pick a red suit but blue, your supposed to do things to destroy the marriage after the wedding not during it.

[Ronnie Sinclair]

1 hour ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

I too am colourblind. Watching last night’s match v Millwall on TV I struggled, at times, to differentiate players from the two teams as both wore (to me!) white shorts.

I’ve always believed that competing teams had to wear contrasting shirts, shorts and socks so that players and officials could have no possibility to mistake combatants in the heat of battle. Has this rule been changed or was it an oversight by everybody’s favourite kitman which was sanctioned by the referee? 

They must have relaxed the rules somewhat this year, as that's one of several occasions (away at QPR and Reading also) where both teams wore white shorts, where in years gone by red were worn.

On a similar note, did anybody watch West Brom v QPR on Friday?  On certain angles it was a bit jarring (to my eyes at least)

[handsofclay]

3 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

They must have relaxed the rules somewhat this year, as that's one of several occasions (away at QPR and Reading also) where both teams wore white shorts, where in years gone by red were worn.

On a similar note, did anybody watch West Brom v QPR on Friday?  On certain angles it was a bit jarring (to my eyes at least)

Yes I actually mentioned it oñ here when the game was in progress. Very jarring especially as it was two styles of blue and white kit, albeit different shades of blue.

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

They must have relaxed the rules somewhat this year, as that's one of several occasions (away at QPR and Reading also) where both teams wore white shorts, where in years gone by red were worn.

On a similar note, did anybody watch West Brom v QPR on Friday?  On certain angles it was a bit jarring (to my eyes at least)

Pretty poor when WBA have this as a third kit:

[Rudolf Hucker]

10+ years ago, I read an article on US sports which stated that, by tradition dating back to the days of B&W TV’s, one team competing in American Football or Baseball matches are required to wear white jerseys whilst the other must wear a dark colour so that spectators can more easily follow the action. Whenever I see US team sports played they still seem to follow this rule. 

[myol'man]

Reminds me of the old snooker story, was it "whispering" Ted Lowe on Pot Black who said 

"For those of you watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green" !

[Lanterne Rouge]

I`m not colour blind so I don`t know the answer to this but is it just a thing you guys have problem with when watching on TV or is it the same when it`s live?

[ExiledAjax]

14 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I`m not colour blind so I don`t know the answer to this but is it just a thing you guys have problem with when watching on TV or is it the same when it`s live?

It is worse on TV. Especially a night game.

However, yeh I've had issues watching live, and also when playing. 

Colour is colour at the end of the day.

[ralphindevon]

1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I`m not colour blind so I don`t know the answer to this but is it just a thing you guys have problem with when watching on TV or is it the same when it`s live?

As I said earlier in this thread, when I’m at cricket if the red ball is truck hard, especially early season when the grass is a deep green colour, I find it hard to follow.

Im not sure I used to have this problem though, so perhaps it’s just me getting older.

[handsofclay]

5 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

10+ years ago, I read an article on US sports which stated that, by tradition dating back to the days of B&W TV’s, one team competing in American Football or Baseball matches are required to wear white jerseys whilst the other must wear a dark colour so that spectators can more easily follow the action. Whenever I see US team sports played they still seem to follow this rule. 

Ice Hockey is the same, as you suggest it seems to be a blanket thing for all American sports. It seemed to apply during Euro 2020 (2021) that in most matches one team played in white. I cannot see why this cannot be done in the Football League. If the home team play in white then the away team play in blue or red. If the home team play in red then the away team have to play in white. If ten percent of the population encounter difficulty with differentiating between teams when colours to them are very similar then something has to be done and the white shirt idea is a simple one to irradicate the problem.

[Oh Louie louie]

Watched a video, the other day, theres a town in scotland where anything green gets attacked!

The gentleman said in the video, its the only non green subway shop in europe.

They also had a petition, to get asda to change, they wouldnt.

I think the video was called the town where green is banned.

[Tinmans Love Child]

23 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

An update.

After the Boro v City game in the summer I emailed the Club/SLO/SC&T to ask if they (and Hummel) would take the FA/FIFA guidelines - linked in the quoted post below - into consideration when designing next seasons kits, and if possible, when deciding what kit to wear in each match. The SC&T (I think @Blagdon red perhaps?) brought this to the clubs attention in one of their recent Zoom meetings. I have been told that although it was the final item on a very lengthy agenda, Richard Gould and the others said that yes, they would consider the guidance and take it into consideration.

This is great news. As a club we already have three traditional distinctive kits - Red/White home, White/Black away, and Purple/Green third. With those three colour palettes to choose from we really should be able to have a kit clash that works for everyone in every game we play. 

We will see what we get in in the spring, but I am hopeful we won't have too many repeats of the Celtic friendly, the Boro game, or even to a lesser extent last night's match with Millwall.

@Leveller @Tinmans Love Child @Slacker

[Oh Louie louie]

Recall, fergie blaming man u getting hammered, because soton, wore a shirt colour.

Bit of a cheek, they scored some crackers that day.

[ExiledAjax]

38 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

[ExiledAjax]

19 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

I’ve always believed that competing teams had to wear contrasting shirts, shorts and socks so that players and officials could have no possibility to mistake combatants in the heat of battle. Has this rule been changed or was it an oversight by everybody’s favourite kitman which was sanctioned by the referee? 

I googled around a bit and found this article about last season's Liverpool v Man Utd game. There was a pretty terrible kit blend going on in this game where Liverpool wore red and Utd wore what is apparently very dark green, but that looks black to me and to most other colourblind people.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12192651/liverpool-vs-manchester-united-colour-blind-fans-angry-as-they-struggle-to-tell-kits-apart

In the article there is an explanation as to how teams in the Prem choose kits. Now this may be Prem only, and may not extend to the EFL, but it's interesting to see what goes into the decision. Relevant sections quoted and my bold additions:

Sources have told Sky Sports News that the Premier League uses online software to ensure that the kits selected for both teams in all fixtures are identifiably different colours and that they have worked with developers to build a tool which identifies the best kit combinations for individuals that are colour blind.

While Albany-Ward [Kathryn Albany-Ward, CEO of Colour Blind Awareness] acknowledges that and has seen the software for herself, she points out that Premier League clubs are not forced to follow the kit guidelines they receive.

"The procedure as I understand it is that the clubs submit the kits they want to wear 10 days in advance and the Premier League will run the software," she said.

"Then they will give them feedback, not just on the kit clash for the two sets of outfield players, but they will look at the goalkeeper kits and whether or not there might be a clash with the match officials.

"They then go back to the clubs and tell them the information the software has given them.

"Whichever 20 clubs are in the Premier League during the season are the Premier League and if the clubs themselves decide they want to override what the [Premier League] administrators tell them, they do."

Apparently in this game Utd were told that the dark green/black kit would be bad...so they changed the socks and went with it anyway. *****.

Edited October 1, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[jimmyb]

6 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Recall, fergie blaming man u getting hammered, because soton, wore a shirt colour.

Bit of a cheek, they scored some crackers that day.

I think it was the other way round wasn’t it? 

Didn’t Utd wear a greyish colour that they couldn’t see against the crowd so they changed shirts at half time. 

Really interesting topic this - I don’t suffer myself but have a friend who came close to making it as a pro but had real problems as he was colourblind.

if you listen to the price of football podcast there was an excellent interview with the head of colour blind awareness which is absolutely fascinating.

They even made the point of in the Euro final the referees kit potentially being indistinguishable to Italy if you’re colourblind and two Italian players were noted to have passed the ball to the referee during the game. 

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/reading-points-deduction-colour-blind-awareness-interview/id1482886394?i=1000536339483

Seems to me it’s an easy fix for the game to sort this - just isn’t the necessary level of awareness.

[ExiledAjax]

47 minutes ago, jimmyb said:

Really interesting topic this - I don’t suffer myself but have a friend who came close to making it as a pro but had real problems as he was colourblind.

I have mentioned to the Club that they might consider getting an optometrist in to check all the players. A simple Ishihara test takes a few minutes and can give a good indication.

if you listen to the price of football podcast there was an excellent interview with the head of colour blind awareness which is absolutely fascinating.

They even made the point of in the Euro final the referees kit potentially being indistinguishable to Italy if you’re colourblind and two Italian players were noted to have passed the ball to the referee during the game. 

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/reading-points-deduction-colour-blind-awareness-interview/id1482886394?i=1000536339483

Thank you for this. Interesting to hear Maguire's experience, I didn't know he was a fellow person with colourblindness. He is totally correct to say that "it doesn't stop you playing sport, but it slows you down..." that, in a nutshell, is the issue. Half a second, a second, that's the delay we're talking about, and in a fast paced game like football, whether you're watching, playing, or officiating, that can be all the time it takes to make an error.

Albany-Ward also makes a good point about colours used around the stadium, or for example online if a club uses green to show available seats and red to show unavailable seats. It does affect people beyond just the kits on the pitch. Here even I am guilty of really not considering the full impact. As I have previously said I would rate my severity at about a 5 or 6 out of 10. I tend to find the tube map absolutely fine tbh - but those with worse sight than mine can have real issues with more commonplace stuff, and I have not always thought about that.

For those who want to listen, and it is a great discussion to listen to if you have any interest in this topic, it starts about 37 minutes into the episode from 23 September.

Seems to me it’s an easy fix for the game to sort this - just isn’t the necessary level of awareness.

Our club and CEO are now aware, and hopefully are looking into it. I'll certainly keep badgering them about it!

Cheers mate, my thoughts above.

Finally, if anyone reading this thread thinks they or a family member or friend might be colourblind, I suggest reading this website https://www.colourblindawareness.org/. You could also speak to an optometrist who can help you with the (quite fun) Ishihara test.

[Davefevs]

 

[ExiledAjax]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

Wonderful. It would still require sensible design, and sensible decision making, but it's a huge step forward. Presumably will allow 3rd kits as well if neither home nor away is appropriate. 

[RedM]

I just posted this on another thread in response to someone saying white is a no no due to colourblindness after someone suggested the away shirt would be white:

 

THE QUOTE; "Absolutely no chance given Colour blindness issues. I’d hope we weren’t that insensitive"

 

MY QUESTION; Serious question. Is white an issue for people with colourblindness? I know very little about this condition, never known anyone with it (by that I mean a friend or relative) so I am pretty much ignorant apart from being aware of the obvious red/green yellow/blue used in simple tests. 

If white is a serious issue as I think you are saying, what colour kits are the best options. I guess the condition must vary so much for each individual its difficult to say but is white one of the worst options?

Edited 3 minutes ago by RedM

[1960maaan]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

While this is a sensible step, I think just a little common sense and forethought would be good.
Most , or many clubs have 3 kits, so in those choices there should be one which doesn't cause problems. The thing seems to be there has be absolutely no consideration of the problem before now. 
Everything has to start with consultation, a simple 2 minute chat with someone that has or understands the issues would prevent the vast majority of problems. Until recently they just haven't cared.