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Bristol R*vers dustbin thread


42nite

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Barclays called the loan in and now to hear GD has not been paid makes it more worrying.

Read more: http://gasheads.org/thread/3191/high-court-proceedings#ixzz3cDWjFqZl

Is this new news? It's the first that I've heard about it - I understood that Barclays were unwilling to extend their facility to RagAss but didn't know that an existing loan had been called in. Neither have I heard of them not paying the milkman.

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Is this new news? It's the first that I've heard about it - I understood that Barclays were unwilling to extend their facility to RagAss but didn't know that an existing loan had been called in. Neither have I heard of them not paying the milkman.

Dunford's money was left in a milk bottle by the Grotto door.

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yesterday at 6:24pm Somerset Blue said:

Have been saying it for months..... If Higgs ' bungle,bumble and bluster ends up in us Losing the watertight case he boasted of so abruptly to Twentyman all those months ago ....It will be the death of our club.

Administration .... Ten point reduction .... Battle for our very league survival let alone anything else.

Why in the name of everything holy he went for a Willy Wonka loan I will never ever know or understand.

At least Watola could see a relegation scrap so much sooner and for once add some value maybe to the cash register.

These are awful times .... Not sure how some of you can joke about it ...you're tougher than me that's for sure.

Or you don't get the potential disaster of us losing this case....

It's simple yet no one believed me. Barclays called the loan in and now to hear GD has not been paid makes it more worrying.

Higgs has blistered and waffled until no more could happen. Whatever happens, he should never have put the club in this s*** or bust position.

Read more: http://gasheads.org/thread/3191/high-court-proceedings#ixzz3cDWjFqZl

 

 

I have been told that the wording of evidence given by Sainsburys in court is highly relevant. Under oath it was apparently stated that Nicholas had said to them if they did not pay up he may have to consider putting the company into liquidation. He did not, apparently, use the word Administration. The significance, I am told, is that in a liquidation the directors of the company are in control and simply turn the business assets into cash. Whereas in an Administration the Administrator is in control and has other statutory duties including trying to keep the business in existence and looking after the interests of the employees. So in this situation the shareholders of the business may not fare so well. 

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I have been told that the wording of evidence given by Sainsburys in court is highly relevant. Under oath it was apparently stated that Nicholas had said to them if they did not pay up he may have to consider putting the company into liquidation. He did not, apparently, use the word Administration. The significance, I am told, is that in a liquidation the directors of the company are in control and simply turn the business assets into cash. Whereas in an Administration the Administrator is in control and has other statutory duties including trying to keep the business in existence and looking after the interests of the employees. So in this situation the shareholders of the business may not fare so well. 

:fingerscrossed:

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I have been told that the wording of evidence given by Sainsburys in court is highly relevant. Under oath it was apparently stated that Nicholas had said to them if they did not pay up he may have to consider putting the company into liquidation. He did not, apparently, use the word Administration. The significance, I am told, is that in a liquidation the directors of the company are in control and simply turn the business assets into cash. Whereas in an Administration the Administrator is in control and has other statutory duties including trying to keep the business in existence and looking after the interests of the employees. So in this situation the shareholders of the business may not fare so well.

The wording is significant but it would not achieve what you suggest. In a liquidation there is still an order of preferences and shareholders rank below creditors both fixed (mortgagors for example) and floating (unsecured credit).

If the club was solvent then there would be a distribution to the shareholders. But still after paying liabilities.

In a liquidation you appoint a liquidator who has a legal obligation to ensure that there is no misconduct. The creditors have rights to ensure the liquidator appointed is bona fide.

Liquidators get paid first in after realisation of assets (including cash) and liquidators are eye-wateringly expensive. It is a massive job after all: all reasonable endeavours to uncover all legal claims as a creditor and pay them up out of the assets - right down to the guy who sold programmes 5 years ago perhaps. That's why when a big PLC goes, or Portsmouth for example, you typically see creditors get pennies in the pound. Because the cost of finding them all is phenomenal.

Not least the liquidators' obligation is to the company and the creditors. If the company has a claim in law against any of its directors for breach of their fiduciary duties that they owe to the company (misconduct etc) then if it's in the creditors' interest (not shareholders; think Wonga) they'd be duty bound to pursue the claim. If the directors have skeletons in the closet liquidation and administration is the very last place they wanna be, or they may spend all their fortune on lawyers' fees

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The wording is significant but it would not achieve what you suggest. In a liquidation there is still an order of preferences and shareholders rank below creditors both fixed (mortgagors for example) and floating (unsecured credit).

If the club was solvent then there would be a distribution to the shareholders. But still after paying liabilities.

In a liquidation you appoint a liquidator who has a legal obligation to ensure that there is no misconduct. The creditors have rights to ensure the liquidator appointed is bona fide.

Liquidators get paid first in after realisation of assets (including cash) and liquidators are eye-wateringly expensive. It is a massive job after all: all reasonable endeavours to uncover all legal claims as a creditor and pay them up out of the assets - right down to the guy who sold programmes 5 years ago perhaps. That's why when a big PLC goes, or Portsmouth for example, you typically see creditors get pennies in the pound. Because the cost of finding them all is phenomenal.

Not least the liquidators' obligation is to the company and the creditors. If the company has a claim in law against any of its directors for breach of their fiduciary duties that they owe to the company (misconduct etc) then if it's in the creditors' interest (not shareholders; think Wonga) they'd be duty bound to pursue the claim. If the directors have skeletons in the closet liquidation and administration is the very last place they wanna be, or they may spend all their fortune on lawyers' fees

 

Unfortunately they are not duty bound to pursue the claim.  The liquidator's sole aim to to realise the assets as quickly as possible.  If pursuing the directors through the courts is likely to be expensive then he will not.  Believe me, I'm involved in a club that went into liquidation and the liquidator deemed it too expensive to pursue the former directors and so didn't.  Liquidation is not about justice or doing what it right - it's about getting as much money in as quickly as possible.

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The wording is significant but it would not achieve what you suggest. In a liquidation there is still an order of preferences and shareholders rank below creditors both fixed (mortgagors for example) and floating (unsecured credit).

If the club was solvent then there would be a distribution to the shareholders. But still after paying liabilities.

In a liquidation you appoint a liquidator who has a legal obligation to ensure that there is no misconduct. The creditors have rights to ensure the liquidator appointed is bona fide.

Liquidators get paid first in after realisation of assets (including cash) and liquidators are eye-wateringly expensive. It is a massive job after all: all reasonable endeavours to uncover all legal claims as a creditor and pay them up out of the assets - right down to the guy who sold programmes 5 years ago perhaps. That's why when a big PLC goes, or Portsmouth for example, you typically see creditors get pennies in the pound. Because the cost of finding them all is phenomenal.

Not least the liquidators' obligation is to the company and the creditors. If the company has a claim in law against any of its directors for breach of their fiduciary duties that they owe to the company (misconduct etc) then if it's in the creditors' interest (not shareholders; think Wonga) they'd be duty bound to pursue the claim. If the directors have skeletons liquidation and administration is the last place they wanna be.

 

Yes, I believe the significance is that the Administrator would have the responsibilities of trying  to keep the business going and trying to keep the jobs in place which a Liquidator would not.  In a liquidation situation the value of the Mem as development site well exceeds the liabilities, which mainly consist of loans from MSP Capital and from the directors, so there would be some millions to spare for shareholders and to pay liquidation costs. Whereas in an administration situation the Administrator may decide that accepting an offer from a third party which pays off the secured creditors and keeps the business going, but leaves nothing for unsecured creditors or shareholders, is the best way in which he can fulfill his obligations. 

 

For obvious reasons it may take a lot of time and effort to unearth a skeleton where Nicholas is concerned. 

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Just heard glos are playing their friendlies there. Good to see the mem getting used as intended. For rugby

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If you do get compo, Miah is there any likelihood that it will be wisely spent for the benefit of the football club? Or will it be spent merely paying off the payday loan and the monies owed to the present board members?

.

Did you script that paragraph purposely as a paradox?

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So,

what we're all reading & saying is that they are [using a rugby term] rucked well and truly, either way, no coming back, no pitching up at a local speedway track and poncing off the owners ever again goodnight.

Still at least they can use the Watney cup as an urn to put the ashes in.

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So,

what we're all reading & saying is that they are [using a rugby term] rucked well and truly, either way, no coming back, no pitching up at a local speedway track and poncing off the owners ever again goodnight.

Still at least they can use the Watney cup as an urn to put the ashes in.

I wouldn't say so. Win and who knows what the future may look like, lose and I think they would survive but an existence like Pompey whereby for the forseeable stability is all you could hope for.

 

Trouble is football is too much like snakes and ladders. Easy to fall, difficult to climb. It's hard to really guess what may happen. But, if they lose their case and the stadium is the catalyst we all hope it would be, it's not difficult to imagine the rivalry descending in to a Stoke v Vale or Bradford v BPA rivalry.

 

I don't fear for their future, but I do fear (for their sake) what the future may be. They aren't too big to prevent a 'Stockport'.

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What's your gut feeling..?

I assume it's quite tightly balanced because judgment was reserved, but if we then get a strong judgment critical of the other party and making it all seem so simple it wouldn't be the first time. To be honest my guess is as good as anyone's.

Stopping short of predicting the outcome, from the reports that fed through to both forums I did think it sounded like Sainsbury's had prepared a strong case, had plenty of ammo and as the judge admitted it was complex I would expect an appeal if they don't win at this stage.

If I absolutely had to guess one way or another, I would predict Sainsbury's will be successful but there's absolutely nothing informed to that guess and I wouldn't argue with anyone who'd guess otherwise.

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I assume it's quite tightly balanced because judgment was reserved, but if we then get a strong judgment critical of the other party and making it all seem so simple it wouldn't be the first time. To be honest my guess is as good as anyone's.

Stopping short of predicting the outcome, from the reports that fed through to both forums I did think it sounded like Sainsbury's had prepared a strong case, had plenty of ammo and as the judge admitted it was complex I would expect an appeal if they don't win at this stage.

If I absolutely had to guess one way or another, I would predict Sainsbury's will be successful but there's absolutely nothing informed to that guess and I wouldn't argue with anyone who'd guess otherwise.

Assuming parties can afford to appeal.

What would happen for example, if Rovers were to win and Sainsbury's wanted to appeal, would Rovers have to embark on another round of legal fees or would the appeal be against the judgement only?

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There are rumblings that Nicholas may sell the Mem in order to pay back outstanding loans and bonds and that this will result in a sudden bowel movement.

What if no one buys now?

Prospective buyers might wait in the belief that in six months, or a year's time, that ground will be available at a fraction of it's current value.

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Assuming parties can afford to appeal.

What would happen for example, if Rovers were to win and Sainsbury's wanted to appeal, would Rovers have to embark on another round of legal fees or would the appeal be against the judgement only?

In reality it would drag them in for more. The appeal would be an appeal against the judgment on a point of law (or the interpretation of it) so if granted Rovers would want to show there was no error in interpretation. Predicting the next question and what if they can't afford it I imagine that's when a deal gets thrashed out.

I suppose one thing I didn't mention is, in my opinion, you do not really want to be the appellant at the Court of Appeal. It isn't friendly and not a court Barristers typically enjoy appearing in front of. If your not on your A game you usually get handed your proverbial on the way out.

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In reality it would drag them in for more. The appeal would be an appeal against the judgment on a point of law (or the interpretation of it) so if granted Rovers would want to show there was no error in interpretation. Predicting the next question and what if they can't afford it I imagine that's when a deal gets thrashed out.

I suppose one thing I didn't mention is, in my opinion, you do not really want to be the appellant at the Court of Appeal. It isn't friendly and not a court Barristers typically enjoy appearing in front of. If your not on your A game you usually get handed your proverbial on the way out.

If an appeal is made on what a judge might consider frivolous grounds could an award of costs be made?

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If an appeal is made on what a judge might consider frivolous grounds could an award of costs be made?

Either side will need permission to launch an appeal and if that's withheld you can then appeal to the appellate court to petition them to hear the appeal (ie appeal for permission to appeal to the Court of Appeal).

What this boils down to is protection against frivolous claims so there will need to be a point of law. Also you won't get leave to appeal unless you have a reasonable chance of success (albeit no guarantee of).

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But is known from Dopey Daryl from his Salisbury days, real coup that

 

He realises what a massive club he is joining ...

 

"There were other offers on the table from both league clubs as well as conference sides but the opportunity to join Rovers was too big to turn down."

 

http://www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/article/defender-clarke-signs-for-rovers-2489633.aspx

 

They are in the football league ... don't you know?

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But is known from Dopey Daryl from his Salisbury days, real coup that

Salisbury? I thought Dopey worked at Sainsbury's, hence the contract dispute and court case about terms of his day release. Next you will telling me that homeless vagabond Sinclair is professional footballer. You make me laugh.

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Almost certainly another weekend of uncertainty for the blue few. Not on the provisional (finalised at 4:30) Court listings for tomorrow.

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Length of time usually means, nobody has an overwhelming case, I can see a fudge from the judge, contract ripped up and a small amount of compo.

 

I may have missed it but did the Judge give any directions about issuing the draft judgment? I'm just wondering if it's out there but not in the public domain yet .... Granted that lead in is typically only a couple of days but I've known it to be a working week.

 

I'm not really convinced we can read too much at this point in to the delays simply because a full judgment even at this point would still be a very quick turnaround. If we ignore the purported importance of June for a moment, you're normally looking around 12 weeks + before you get ants in the pants; even longer if it is complex (and judging by the length of the hearing in this instance, complex is quite likely).

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I may have missed it but did the Judge give any directions about issuing the draft judgment? I'm just wondering if it's out there but not in the public domain yet .... Granted that lead in is typically only a couple of days but I've known it to be a working week.

I'm not really convinced we can read too much at this point in to the delays simply because a full judgment even at this point would still be a very quick turnaround. If we ignore the purported importance of June for a moment, you're normally looking around 12 weeks + before you get ants in the pants; even longer if it is complex (and judging by the length of the hearing in this instance, complex is quite likely).

I've checked the schedule and I'm not seeing it listed.

Apparently tomorrow, Rinder is making a judgement for some bloke who got a Doris a kebab after a night in the pub and didn't even get cloth-tits, let alone inside tops.

He is expecting his fiver back.

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Ooooh, are we suggesting City are too big time now to look at players from non league?

I think it highlights the limitations of dippy. "I knew him from Salisbury" seems to be a key part of his scouting network.

Still, next week you can celebrate the new stadium plans - 15k in Cribbs Causeway while the mem becomes a yoghurt weaving factory owned by red trousers.

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Ooooh, are we suggesting City are too big time now to look at players from non league?

Luke Vardy , Charlie Austin are two examples why there are some gems in non league , so no we will never be too big not to look at non league . I think its being suggested that your lot can only really look at non league in your current position . Although i forgot you are the Barcelona of league two. :laughcont:  

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I don't know what cloth-tits means so I googled it. No luck except for a site called big tits in tight tops or something which will have to do for now.

 

I believe he means what was referred to as First Base, when I were a young lad....

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Ooooh, are we suggesting City are too big time now to look at players from non league?

Is that.. a bite???

 

No you're right, I hope our chief scouts are watching re-runs  of semi professional football to hopefully pick out a gem. I do hope for the day we're fighting tooth and nail with your lot for Salisburys centre back!!

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