The Office (UK): Ipswich Town edition

[Northern Red]

I guess the talking point is whether Pearson would have signed on for the long term if he was going to have to work under Ashton.

My completely uninformed belief is that he wouldn't have and knew the score regarding Ashton's future when he first came in.

[Slacker]

15 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I guess the talking point is whether Pearson would have signed on for the long term if he was going to have to work under Ashton.

My completely uninformed belief is that he wouldn't have and knew the score regarding Ashton's future when he first came in.

Very much suspect you are right NR.

[cidered abroad]

31 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

He was involved to at least an extent and I think he did the initial approach. However I wonder if it was known that he was leaving at that point. At the very least Pearson seems to have joined knowing the spending limitations that were likely to be in place meant the transfer policy would be very different.

That said, Pearson obviously joined until the end of the season and at a point when the transfer market was closed so there was no real risk of players being signed without his knowledge.

I think I remember seeing on net that it was Pearson who approached Lansdown direct. Don't know if my memory is correct but if so his coming did not involve the unmentionable.

[Sleepy1968]

15 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I guess the talking point is whether Pearson would have signed on for the long term if he was going to have to work under Ashton.

My completely uninformed belief is that he wouldn't have and knew the score regarding Ashton's future when he first came in.

There was only room for one of them at the club. I'm not convinced that was a know issue when he first came in. Maybe I could be persuaded that Steve Lansdown gave some sort of assurance that MA wouldn't be a long term issue, but if I remember correctly SL said he didn't have prior knowledge of MAs resignation and did every thing he could to convince him to stay. Come to think of it, that last bit seems a bit unbelievable.

[TomThumb84]

Nigel Pearson joined because Mark Ashton had switched off/was asleep at the wheel and allowed the process to happen knowing he was on his toes to Ipswich, and did not care on what terms the new manager joined.

Prior to this, when Holden was appointed, Ashton desperately needed to buy some time and it was important his position was not diluted in order to exact his exit strategy. Hence, any experienced manager that was interviewed could see the problems in our club and surely sought to amend/rectify as part of their vision moving forward which was not acceptable. Hence we ended up with Dean Holden.

The cards fell perfectly for Mark Ashton, during possibly the most conceited and self-serving 12 months any individual has had at our club. Injury crisis’ not being dealt with, transfer insanity, contracts being allowed to run down and literally millions of pounds walking out of our door unchecked.

Ultimately it set us back 3 years, but we can thank our lucky stars it did not cost us our Championship status as that could have led to 82 repeating itself, and that we ended up with Nigel Pearson at the end of it.

If you think this is over-dramatic it is not. We have been very fortunate.

Edited September 12, 2021 by TomThumb84

[Sleepy1968]

2 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Nigel Pearson joined because Mark Ashton had switched off/was asleep at the wheel and allowed the process to happen knowing he was on his toes to Ipswich, and did not care on what terms the new manager joined.

Prior to this, when Holden was appointed, Ashton desperately needed to buy some time and it was important his position was not diluted in order to exact his exit strategy. Hence, any experienced manager that was interviewed could see the problems in our club and surely sought to amend/rectify as part of their vision moving forward which was not acceptable. Hence we ended up with Dean Holden.

The cards fell perfectly for Mark Ashton, during possibly the most conceited and self-serving 12 months any individual has had at our club. Ultimately it set us back 3 years, but we can thank our lucky stars it did not cost us our Championship status as that could have led to 82 repeating itself, and that we ended up with Nigel Pearson at the end of it.

If you think this is over-dramatic it is not. We have been very fortunate.

I'd like to rebutt your assertations. But I can't. Fortunately we were just one of the steps on the ladder to Mr Ashton's world football dominance. And luckily for us he took a lot of his toys with him!

[Southport Red]

58 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Pretty sure SL did the Sunday morning zoom with Nige.  Can’t believe MA wasn’t involved though.

But there’s no way SL wasn’t aware MA was off at that point either.  I get the impression that SL was getting much more hands-on early in 2021…probably once Maggie had read Kid’s post on here.

He seemed to be back running the show at the point of Nige’s appointment 

Definitely remember reading a NP interview where he said he got the call from SL on a Sunday. IIRC, no mention of MA being involved at that stage. 

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I guess the talking point is whether Pearson would have signed on for the long term if he was going to have to work under Ashton.

My completely uninformed belief is that he wouldn't have and knew the score regarding Ashton's future when he first came in.

I agree.

19 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

There was only room for one of them at the club. I'm not convinced that was a know issue when he first came in. Maybe I could be persuaded that Steve Lansdown gave some sort of assurance that MA wouldn't be a long term issue, but if I remember correctly SL said he didn't have prior knowledge of MAs resignation and did every thing he could to convince him to stay. Come to think of it, that last bit seems a bit unbelievable.

Think the term is “itchy chin”

5 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Nigel Pearson joined because Mark Ashton had switched off/was asleep at the wheel and allowed the process to happen knowing he was on his toes to Ipswich, and did not care on what terms the new manager joined.

Prior to this, when Holden was appointed, Ashton desperately needed to buy some time and it was important his position was not diluted in order to exact his exit strategy. Hence, any experienced manager that was interviewed could see the problems in our club and surely sought to amend/rectify as part of their vision moving forward which was not acceptable. Hence we ended up with Dean Holden.

The cards fell perfectly for Mark Ashton, during possibly the most conceited and self-serving 12 months any individual has had at our club. Injury crisis’ not being dealt with, transfer insanity, contracts being allowed to run down and literally millions of pounds walking out of our door unchecked.

Ultimately it set us back 3 years, but we can thank our lucky stars it did not cost us our Championship status as that could have led to 82 repeating itself, and that we ended up with Nigel Pearson at the end of it.

If you think this is over-dramatic it is not. We have been very fortunate.

I think you’re right too.

Think I’ve posted before that (the story is) Cook tried to talk himself out of the job during the actual interview.  You can just imagine MA giving it the big ‘in - “the club is centred around me, you’ll report into me, etc”.

Just like Cotts in Dec 15, when Ashton returned to do the hatchet job, Cook will know the writing is on the wall for him.  It wouldn’t surprise me if his heart isn’t truly in it (which is poor form on his part).  He’s been really quiet in terms of signings (not easy to grab the limelight from Ashton admittedly), and you wonder if the apathy is rubbing off on the pitch.

[M.D]

1 minute ago, Southport Red said:

Definitely remember reading a NP interview where he said he got the call from SL on a Sunday. IIRC, no mention of MA being involved at that stage. 

Thats what I remember, he was cooking bacon sandwiches and his misses said 'you better answer that'

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I'd like to rebutt your assertations. But I can't. Fortunately we were just one of the steps on the ladder to Mr Ashton's world football dominance. And luckily for us he took a lot of his toys with him!

Must’ve landed on a snake then, because he’s gone downwards.

1 minute ago, M.D said:

Thats what I remember, he was cooking bacon sandwiches and his misses said 'you better answer that'

Yes, think call was from his agent and SL had contacted the agent.

[Silvio Dante]

19 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I haven’t heard Cook’s interview but reading their fans quotes he seems less enamoured with the signings….apart from Morsy, who he is now looking to save him.

I haven’t read the whole thing but it’s safe to say, he seems a tad under pressure 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I haven’t read the whole thing but it’s safe to say, he seems a tad under pressure 

 

Probably not his best week, his father died last week too.

[Atticus]

Sadly the Ipswich fans seem to be completely moronic. And under the spell of Ashton can do no wrong.  It is genuinely hilarious how they call us bitter. Yet any type of research would see that we are NOT. 

And because of this, I hope they go down. I will be gleefully celebrating their demise if they want to be that stupid and ignorant. 

DELUDED. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Atticus

[Pezo]

3 hours ago, Atticus said:

Sadly the Ipswich fans seem to be completely moronic. And under the spell of Ashton can do no wrong.  It is genuinely hilarious how they call us bitter. Yet any type of research would see that we are NOT. 

And because of this, I hope they go down. I will be gleefully celebrating their demise if they want to be that stupid and ignorant. 

DELUDED. 

That's the problem with a salesman like Ashton is everything looks good until you try to use the snake oil. Then when you do there are other reasons for the problems that cloud the picture - the first thing in most fans playbook is sack the manager.

Oxford tried telling us and we were apprehensive about listening to them when we were selling players for considerably more than we ever had before and signing players left right and center. When you're in the middle of it it all makes sense sell players for large amounts, buy more players that (he says) needs only a little development and have lots of competition for places and ready made replacements. This is all fine from the clubs perspective but misses out the human element of players actually wanting to play and what happens when they don't.

If Ipswich fans don't want to listen to us then fair enough IMO, you can't get someone to listen by shouting louder - they certainly know what our experience was. I wouldn't wish ill on them for being blinded by the bright lights of a dodgy salesman and if there was a way of separating there eventual pain from Ashtons then that would be preferable to me, it might take them 3 seasons to realise but they will eventually. 

I think the reason we're all over explaining this stuff to Ipswich fans is because in the grand scheme of things we actually quite liked Ipswich before Ashton got there, they are a good traditional club that I can't remember us having any issues with. 

[Oh Louie louie]

No, i dont recall any issues with ipswich.

They helped us out in 82, with a benefit match.

Certainly a friendly ground to visit.

Laid back atmosphere there.

[The Humble Realist]

Isnt it a bit sad that we all seem to be wishing ill on Ipswich in this thread? 

I was certainly no fan of Ashton and am glad he has left but isnt it a bit tin pot that we have a 13 page thread (no doubt WAY longer by the end of the season ?) 

I wonder what we will all say if they end up getting promoted !

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, The Humble Realist said:

Isnt it a bit sad that we all seem to be wishing ill on Ipswich in this thread? 

I was certainly no fan of Ashton and am glad he has left but isnt it a bit tin pot that we have a 13 page thread (no doubt WAY longer by the end of the season ?) 

I wonder what we will all say if they end up getting promoted !

When they get promoted, let’s assume it’s this season, all their fans will be expecting momentum, more quality signings (they expect to buy top 6 quality players according to their forum), etc.  However, I’m not sure their fans are quite prepared for 1) the cost of top 6 quality players both in fees and wages, 2) their place in the pecking order (low) and 3) how Championship FFP differs from Lg1 FFP.  They are able to ride Owner investment in Lg1.  They can’t in the Championship.  They’ll be wondering why they can’t buy themselves a place in the PL, they could buy Lg1 success.

So, what will we say….welcome to real life under Ashton, good luck trying to get rid of those players who aren’t good enough but are on inflated contracts, more inflated because they’ve just had a promotion wage-rise.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, The Humble Realist said:

Isnt it a bit sad that we all seem to be wishing ill on Ipswich in this thread? 

I was certainly no fan of Ashton and am glad he has left but isnt it a bit tin pot that we have a 13 page thread (no doubt WAY longer by the end of the season ?) 

I wonder what we will all say if they end up getting promoted !

I don’t, but MA has to be found out/get his comeuppance. It might need Ipswich to go tits up to some degree for this to happen. I would hope he would get found out without anything awful happening to a decent club but it might just be that happening that ends his self-serving, ego-driven nonsense once and for all.

[Peter1450]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

When they get promoted, let’s assume it’s this season, all their fans will be expecting momentum, more quality signings (they expect to buy top 6 quality players according to their forum), etc.  However, I’m not sure their fans are quite prepared for 1) the cost of top 6 quality players both in fees and wages, 2) their place in the pecking order (low) and 3) how Championship FFP differs from Lg1 FFP.  They are able to ride Owner investment in Lg1.  They can’t in the Championship.  They’ll be wondering why they can’t buy themselves a place in the PL, they could buy Lg1 success.

So, what will we say….welcome to real life under Ashton, good luck trying to get rid of those players who aren’t good enough but are on inflated contracts, more inflated because they’ve just had a promotion wage-rise.

     Correct me if I’m wrong Dave, but at least Ipswich have had a couple of spells in the Premier League, mid 90’s and early 2000’s ? More than can be said of City………..used to work nights back then and I seem to remember 5 live followed them for a season and it was down to earth and entertaining stuff.

[Davefevs]

Just now, Peter1450 said:

     Correct me if I’m wrong Dave, but at least Ipswich have had a couple of spells in the Premier League, mid 90’s and early 2000’s ? More than can be said of City………..used to work nights back then and I seem to remember 5 live followed them for a season and it was down to earth and entertaining stuff.

Ipswich are a club with good history, have always been a pretty sensible, well-run and likeable club to the neutral.  They deserve better than Mark Ashton imho.

[BanburyRed]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ipswich are a club with good history, have always been a pretty sensible, well-run and likeable club to the neutral.  They deserve better than Mark Ashton imho.

Good team back in the day - Paul Cooper, Kevin Beattie, Terry Butcher, Eric Gates, Paul Mariner, Arnold Muhren to name but a few.

[Port Said Red]

5 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Good team back in the day - Paul Cooper, Kevin Beattie, Terry Butcher, Eric Gates, Paul Mariner, Arnold Muhren to name but a few.

Russell Osman a deliberate omission there BR?  Burley, Mills and Whymark were all top players too.  

[The Swan and Cemetery]

12 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Russell Osman a deliberate omission there BR?  Burley, Mills and Whymark were all top players too.  

Never sure if teams from the past were rammed full of tip-top players, or just that teams of childhood (eg when focus on Panini was all there was) makes them more memorable, but 1981 UEFA cup winning team was: Cooper, Mills, McCall, Thijssen, Osman, Butcher, Wark, Muhren, Mariner, Brazil and Gates. Pretty much legends to a man in my eyes, but maybe I’ve been wooed by watching The Big Match Revisited (aka an awful lot of mud revisited) this evening. 

[BanburyRed]

19 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Russell Osman a deliberate omission there BR?  Burley, Mills and Whymark were all top players too.  

Russell who?!  I was trying to recall by memory alone without resorting to Google or wikipedia, of course George Burley, Mick Mills and somehow in my mind confused Whymark with Widmark, the Hollywood actor!

[Phileas Fogg]

On 12/09/2021 at 14:21, Northern Red said:

I guess the talking point is whether Pearson would have signed on for the long term if he was going to have to work under Ashton.

My completely uninformed belief is that he wouldn't have and knew the score regarding Ashton's future when he first came in.

I think that's probably right. It seemed a bit of an open secret that Ashton was part of that American takeover. Whilst we were able to speculate (hopeful that it was true) on this forum.. I have no doubt it had been in the works for a while before it got to the press. 

[bpexile]

15 hours ago, Marco the red said:

Would be delighted if they got relegated.

I understand your feelings but the sad fact is that they have been sucked in just as we did & I don't really think that relegation is deserved by trusting someone. A painful exercise as well we know, I just hope they come to their senses before it's too late, if it isn't already.

[exAtyeoMax]

7 hours ago, bpexile said:

I understand your feelings but the sad fact is that they have been sucked in just as we did & I don't really think that relegation is deserved by trusting someone. A painful exercise as well we know, I just hope they come to their senses before it's too late, if it isn't already.

The US consortium may well be a different kettle of fish to SL, they may suss MA out quite quickly and give him his marching orders! If they are on the ball they won’t mess about,

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

The US consortium may well be a different kettle of fish to SL, they may suss MA out quite quickly and give him his marching orders! If they are on the ball they won’t mess about,

Unfortunately Ashton has a big pal in Mike O’Leary, his Chairman and mentor to some extent from West Brom and Oxford days.

The US company state that the pension fund behind this needs to perform, and PL is where the money is.  They seem to think the Championship is also financially viable too.  That’s surprising, it’s a money-pit.

This is gonna give us a good couple of years of interest I reckon.  Starting from when Paul Cook gets sacked through to the first set of accounts under this regime, and beyond.

[1960maaan]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Unfortunately Ashton has a big pal in Mike O’Leary, his Chairman and mentor to some extent from West Brom and Oxford days.

The US company state that the pension fund behind this needs to perform, and PL is where the money is.  They seem to think the Championship is also financially viable too.  That’s surprising, it’s a money-pit.

This is gonna give us a good couple of years of interest I reckon.  Starting from when Paul Cook gets sacked through to the first set of accounts under this regime, and beyond.

Marky Mark set his stall out early, nice bit of fawning by signing a player on his Chairman's recommendation 

Doesn't look good for Cook though, how much say in strategy does he have if the Chairman & CEO are that hands on. Sacked by the next window?

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Marky Mark set his stall out early, nice bit of fawning by signing a player on his Chairman's recommendation 

Doesn't look good for Cook though, how much say in strategy does he have if the Chairman & CEO are that hands on. Sacked by the next window?

As an outside looking in at Ipswich it feels like Cook’s heart isn’t in it.  That’s poor on his part, but it feels like Cotts when Ashton came back into the club….where in Cotts case he just made himself more and more likely to get sacked, the altercation with a fan being the final straw.  I loved Cotts, but was disappointed that he didn’t try to play the game a bit and stay onside in the hope of buying some time and sorting things out.  Got to say the dynamic between Cotts and Tomlin would’ve been good to watch, might’ve ended in tears too, but would’ve been interesting.

Back to Cook, he’s not been vocal about transfers, is that because he’s accepted his fate, or is it Ashton hogging the limelight?

I don’t think Cook will be here by the next international break.

[Port Said Red]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Unfortunately Ashton has a big pal in Mike O’Leary, his Chairman and mentor to some extent from West Brom and Oxford days.

The US company state that the pension fund behind this needs to perform, and PL is where the money is.  They seem to think the Championship is also financially viable too.  That’s surprising, it’s a money-pit.

This is gonna give us a good couple of years of interest I reckon.  Starting from when Paul Cook gets sacked through to the first set of accounts under this regime, and beyond.

Makes you wonder where they got that information from doesn't it? But then they must have done their due diligence? 

Mind you there was the infamous Mr MF who's main plan was to put all the Fry's Pensioners money on 14 and 20 to the maximum on a local roulette table, so they aren't all very bright!

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

As an outside looking in at Ipswich it feels like Cook’s heart isn’t in it.  That’s poor on his part, but it feels like Cotts when Ashton came back into the club….where in Cotts case he just made himself more and more likely to get sacked, the altercation with a fan being the final straw.  I loved Cotts, but was disappointed that he didn’t try to play the game a bit and stay onside in the hope of buying some time and sorting things out.  Got to say the dynamic between Cotts and Tomlin would’ve been good to watch, might’ve ended in tears too, but would’ve been interesting.

Back to Cook, he’s not been vocal about transfers, is that because he’s accepted his fate, or is it Ashton hogging the limelight?

I don’t think Cook will be here by the next international break.

It's a difficult one. 
If you've been brought in, with all the bluster and promise of having the major say in a rebuild ( which could be the case in both Cook & Cotts),when you are cut off at the knees it can go one of 2 ways. You kick back and play up, which didn't work well for SC. But also looks like a missed opportunity by the Club, which could be blamed to a large part on Ashton. Or you can suck it up and go through the motions to keep your job, depends on character, I guess the contracts would be paid up anyway (depending on what they signed). 
Cooks stock was high  , but as a big part of why I would have been happy to see him here (recruitment) has been taken away from him. While there are pure coaches that have little to do with recruitment, they surely must have a say in the positions recruited for and the numbers. Ashton seems to run roughshod over those ideas.

I'd feel a little sympathy for any genuinely ambitious coach under Ashton, Cook is in an unenviable position. A job with a good club, with history and recently under achieved greatly is a good job to take, specially with a new owners money. I think he could really have got them going given the right circumstances. As it is, it feels a bit like when MA came in here, dismantled all that had worked previously and made the managers job unworkable. 

Difference is, from a distance it's easier to enjoy this time round.

[exAtyeoMax]

55 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

This is gonna give us a good couple of years of interest I reckon.  Starting from when Paul Cook gets sacked through to the first set of accounts under this regime, and beyond.

 

41 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Doesn't look good for Cook though, how much say in strategy does he have if the Chairman & CEO are that hands on. Sacked by the next window?

Might he walk? He might lose a big payout though

[exAtyeoMax]

35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As an outside looking in at Ipswich it feels like Cook’s heart isn’t in it.  That’s poor on his part, but it feels like Cotts when Ashton came back into the club….where in Cotts case he just made himself more and more likely to get sacked, the altercation with a fan being the final straw.  I loved Cotts, but was disappointed that he didn’t try to play the game a bit and stay onside in the hope of buying some time and sorting things out.  Got to say the dynamic between Cotts and Tomlin would’ve been good to watch, might’ve ended in tears too, but would’ve been interesting.

Back to Cook, he’s not been vocal about transfers, is that because he’s accepted his fate, or is it Ashton hogging the limelight?

I don’t think Cook will be here by the next international break.

Perhaps the situation behind the scenes was past that? I’ve worked in companies like that, whatever I did wouldn’t have made a difference. Cotts wouldn’t have stood for any interference in the team/squad.

I don’t know much about PC, what kind of person he is…like you say if he wants to save his sanity and reputation it’s best to get out quick (whether he’s pushed or if he jumps)

[CyderInACan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

The US company state that the pension fund behind this needs to perform, and PL is where the money is.

I hope to Bob that my pension is not with them, then. .  .

[1960maaan]

51 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

 

Might he walk? He might lose a big payout though

I doubt he's in a position to just give it up. But if they perform badly it won't take long for the new owners to start to worry. I can see them putting pressure on a change if the poor form goes on too long. Not a clue what contract he's on, but I doubt it's less than a years salary . 

[headhunter]

Another Ryan Kent situation developing at Portman Road:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-told-take-action-21550756 

 

[petehinton]

https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/ashton-on-itfc-and-financial-fair-play-8304716
 

sorry if it’s already been posted, but highly recommend this 45 min chat. Absolute gold from start to finish. So much total gash/lies and referring to himself in the third person 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

Another Ryan Kent situation developing at Portman Road:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-told-take-action-21550756 

 

As usual, the Villa fans ignorant of the rules!

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/ashton-on-itfc-and-financial-fair-play-8304716
 

sorry if it’s already been posted, but highly recommend this 45 min chat. Absolute gold from start to finish. So much total gash/lies and referring to himself in the third person 

I took the trouble to listen last week.  It’s where I picked up some of my gems re Celina wanted before speaking to Cook and O’Leary (Chairman) wanting Kyle Edwards / Rakeem Harper (whichever one it is).  Would love to ask Mr Morrell is Ashton has really spoken to Joe since he turned Ipswich down?

If you didn’t know his “previous form” it all sounds great….he’s a effing bluffer.

[Kid in the Riot]

17 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think that's probably right. It seemed a bit of an open secret that Ashton was part of that American takeover. Whilst we were able to speculate (hopeful that it was true) on this forum.. I have no doubt it had been in the works for a while before it got to the press. 

But I don't think it was an open secret when Pearson joined. My post regarding Ashton/Ipswich was made after Pearson had joined. 

The timeline of events subsequently, and admittedly taking a fair bit of rumour and hearsay into account, suggests that the Lansdowns had no idea Ashton was planning a getaway until my post, and then when it was picked up by The Athletic four days later. 

That would explain the alleged legal threats against OTIB, and that allegedly far from being allowed to carry on as normal in post, Ashton was placed on gardening leave almost immediately. 

I've subsequently posted that Ashton had been courting the Americans as far back as City's pre-season tour in Florida in 2019, a full 18 months before the story was eventually outed. 

It's business and these kind of informal talks and deals happen, but the Lansdowns must still feel played and massively let down by Ashton. 

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/ashton-on-itfc-and-financial-fair-play-8304716
 

sorry if it’s already been posted, but highly recommend this 45 min chat. Absolute gold from start to finish. So much total gash/lies and referring to himself in the third person 

I don't know if I can bring myself to listen…shame there isn't a voice over like they used to have on Eurotrash…

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

But I don't think it was an open secret when Pearson joined. My post regarding Ashton/Ipswich was made after Pearson had joined. 

The timeline of events subsequently, and admittedly taking a fair bit of rumour and hearsay into account, suggests that the Lansdowns had no idea Ashton was planning a getaway until my post, and then when it was picked up by The Athletic four days later. 

That would explain the alleged legal threats against OTIB, and that allegedly far from being allowed to carry on as normal in post, Ashton was placed on gardening leave almost immediately. 

I've subsequently posted that Ashton had been courting the Americans as far back as City's pre-season tour in Florida in 2019, a full 18 months before the story was eventually outed. 

It's business and these kind of informal talks and deals happen, but the Lansdowns must still feel played and massively let down by Ashton. 

I’d heard that he was on gardening leave too….does that mean he had to do the odd bit of media work in the intervening period to cover up that fact?

[Midlands Robin]

Steve Lansdown must have felt pretty pissed off if Ashton hadn't been up front with him.

City fans had been quite vitriolic about the Smarmy One for a long time prior to the Holden debacle forcing SL to come out and defend his man publicly on several occasions both in print and interviews. 

To then be proven to have backed the wrong horse would have been a smidge embarrassing for a man well regarded in business circles.

I'd love to know the full story regarding Ashton and OTIB (and by extension the supporters club?) But understand and respect that it's unlikely to be written about.

I would guess though that Ashton's initial involvement in the US was probably focused on investment opportunities in Bristol Sport and maybe, when this didn't come to fruition, Ashton saw opportunities elsewhere.

[stawey]

do we have to use the weasles name perhaps self seeking scrout would be a better way to refer to him

[Wiltshire robin]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

As an outside looking in at Ipswich it feels like Cook’s heart isn’t in it.  That’s poor on his part, but it feels like Cotts when Ashton came back into the club….where in Cotts case he just made himself more and more likely to get sacked, the altercation with a fan being the final straw.  I loved Cotts, but was disappointed that he didn’t try to play the game a bit and stay onside in the hope of buying some time and sorting things out.  Got to say the dynamic between Cotts and Tomlin would’ve been good to watch, might’ve ended in tears too, but would’ve been interesting.

Back to Cook, he’s not been vocal about transfers, is that because he’s accepted his fate, or is it Ashton hogging the limelight?

I don’t think Cook will be here by the next international break.

Talking about players like tomlin playing under cotts do you think that is why jet wasn’t wanted by us in the championship because of work rate ?

[REDOXO]

5 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

Steve Lansdown must have felt pretty pissed off if Ashton hadn't been up front with him.

City fans had been quite vitriolic about the Smarmy One for a long time prior to the Holden debacle forcing SL to come out and defend his man publicly on several occasions both in print and interviews. 

To then be proven to have backed the wrong horse would have been a smidge embarrassing for a man well regarded in business circles.

I'd love to know the full story regarding Ashton and OTIB (and by extension the supporters club?) But understand and respect that it's unlikely to be written about.

I would guess though that Ashton's initial involvement in the US was probably focused on investment opportunities in Bristol Sport and maybe, when this didn't come to fruition, Ashton saw opportunities elsewhere.

The idea that Ashton was somehow working on a deal with Americans/Ipswich while being employed by Bristol City and no one knew anything is absurd, particularly when taking into account the context of SL stating he was actively looking for investment. 
 

I had no idea that a communication had been made to OITB over the mans departure. In my experience if that kind of thing happens in this kind of arena someone is a bit closer to the truth than others may like. If anyone knows anything I would be delighted to hear/read it. 

 

[Rob k]

14 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The idea that Ashton was somehow working on a deal with Americans/Ipswich while being employed by Bristol City and no one knew anything is absurd, particularly when taking into account the context of SL stating he was actively looking for investment. 
 

I had no idea that a communication had been made to OITB over the mans departure. In my experience if that kind of thing happens in this kind of arena someone is a bit closer to the truth than others may like. If anyone knows anything I would be delighted to hear/read it. 

 

It’s not that absurd, How did he get a job with them then if he wasn’t working on a deal? I’ve never told an employer I’m actively seeking employment elsewhere either 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Rob k

[Davefevs]

43 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

Steve Lansdown must have felt pretty pissed off if Ashton hadn't been up front with him.

City fans had been quite vitriolic about the Smarmy One for a long time prior to the Holden debacle forcing SL to come out and defend his man publicly on several occasions both in print and interviews. 

To then be proven to have backed the wrong horse would have been a smidge embarrassing for a man well regarded in business circles.

I'd love to know the full story regarding Ashton and OTIB (and by extension the supporters club?) But understand and respect that it's unlikely to be written about.

I would guess though that Ashton's initial involvement in the US was probably focused on investment opportunities in Bristol Sport and maybe, when this didn't come to fruition, Ashton saw opportunities elsewhere.

Imagine the finders fee for being part of the group that introduced Gamechanger to Ipswich. Whether that trip to the US was for SL (City or Bristol Sport) I don’t know.  I do recall a mate of mine saying Ashton wasn’t taking City to Florida for the club’s benefit.  Gonna ask him to try and recall what he knew.  It’s quite possible Covid slowed that down.

19 minutes ago, Rob k said:

It’s not that absurd, How did he get a job with them then if he wasn’t working on a deal? I’ve never told an employer I’m actively seeking employment elsewhere either 

Let’s see if a certain someone can remember what he said at the time.

36 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

Talking about players like tomlin playing under cotts do you think that is why jet wasn’t wanted by us in the championship because of work rate ?

JET was allegedly on £20k per week at Ipswich, hence why QPR could afford him and we couldn’t.  I don’t know whether Cotts thought he could do it at Champ level….too big a risk on those wages.  Whilst under contract at Ipswich we were paying half (I think).

Edited September 14, 2021 by Davefevs

[Wiltshire robin]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Imagine the finders fee for being part of the group that introduced Gamechanger to Ipswich. Whether that trip to the US was for SL (City or Bristol Sport) I don’t know.  I do recall a mate of mine saying Ashton wasn’t taking City to Florida for the club’s benefit.  Gonna ask him to try and recall what he knew.

Let’s see if a certain someone can remember what he said at the time.

JET was allegedly on £20k per week at Ipswich, hence why QPR could afford him and we couldn’t.  I don’t know whether Cotts thought he could do it at Champ level….too big a risk on those wages.  Whilst under contract at Ipswich we were paying half (I think).

Oh I see 

yeh would of been a risk and tbf he didn’t set the world on fire at qpr

shame as he had some crazy talent

[Rob k]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Imagine the finders fee for being part of the group that introduced Gamechanger to Ipswich. Whether that trip to the US was for SL (City or Bristol Sport) I don’t know.  I do recall a mate of mine saying Ashton wasn’t taking City to Florida for the club’s benefit.  Gonna ask him to try and recall what he knew.

Let’s see if a certain someone can remember what he said at the time.

JET was allegedly on £20k per week at Ipswich, hence why QPR could afford him and we couldn’t.  I don’t know whether Cotts thought he could do it at Champ level….too big a risk on those wages.  Whilst under contract at Ipswich we were paying half (I think).

He was absolutely adamant at the time that this trip was all about Ashton and he’s been proven to have been bang on. He’s told me to me wary since day 1 of Him arriving at the club.

[REDOXO]

15 minutes ago, Rob k said:

It’s not that absurd, How did he get a job with them then if he wasn’t working on a deal? I’ve never told an employer I’m actively seeking employment elsewhere either 

He was working on a deal that’s the point. SL was/is looking for partners buyers. Ashton was working on that, but he found buyers that couldn’t afford/want Bristol City/Bristol Sport-but could afford a club with some history and a decent catchment area like Ipswich. The rest is history. 
 

When you are interested in investment and acquisition you make as many friends and contacts as possible and this is clearly ongoing at our club. Source Steve Lansdown! 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

He was working on a deal that’s the point. SL was/is looking for partners buyers. Ashton was working on that, but he found buyers that couldn’t afford/want Bristol City/Bristol Sport-but could afford a club with some history and a decent catchment area like Ipswich. The rest is history. 
 

When you are interested in investment and acquisition you make as many friends and contacts as possible and this is clearly ongoing at our club. Source Steve Lansdown! 

So the follow-on question is - was Ashton undermining Lansdown / City from that point on, or at least not putting 100% into it?

[Ska Junkie]

46 minutes ago, stawey said:

do we have to use the weasles name perhaps self seeking scrote would be a better way to refer to him

'Sleazeball', captain smarm', 'knobhead', 'self obsessed arsehole, 'liar''? 

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

So the follow-on question is - was Ashton undermining Lansdown / City from that point on, or at least not putting 100% into it?

You would have to ask Ashton and SL that. My tuppence is that probably not. If a deal was being struck for Ipswich that the owner and board of Bristol City were not aware of in some capacity then it’s highly likely action would have been taken long before it became public. The idea that an industry can keep a secret from others in the industry is almost laughable 
 

The board and the Lansdown family have  now have connections. M&A is often about signaling. And the signals from the owner are pretty clear. It is now about kissing frogs until one turns into a Prince to use an awful industry metaphor. 

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

. In my experience if that kind of thing happens in this kind of arena someone is a bit closer to the truth than others may like. If anyone knows anything I would be delighted to hear/read it. 

That's now a long,long queue and we're all

Edited September 14, 2021 by Son of Fred

[Midlands Robin]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

The idea that Ashton was somehow working on a deal with Americans/Ipswich while being employed by Bristol City and no one knew anything is absurd,

I'm not so sure. We'd need to work out a timeline of events but the big questions such as who said what and when I doubt we'll ever fully know.

I can guarantee though that when I'm not in work at my desk, my boss would have no idea what I'm doing. It's not all that absurd to believe Ashton was devoting some time prior to the announcement of his departure working on non City related projects.

[REDOXO]

52 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

I'm not so sure. We'd need to work out a timeline of events but the big questions such as who said what and when I doubt we'll ever fully know.

I can guarantee though that when I'm not in work at my desk, my boss would have no idea what I'm doing. It's not all that absurd to believe Ashton was devoting some time prior to the announcement of his departure working on non City related projects.

Yes But I didn't say that he was not devoting some time working on non City projects, in fact I made it clear he was. Its a matter of knowledge!!!

The issue is did SL and the board not know what he was doing. The breach of confidentiality, not to mention the breach of trust to an employer paying him 500k would have been enough for any suiter not to have gone through with the deal with him as it would have been clear that the person they were doing business with was not to be trusted. When you are paying out that kind of money having trust in the person/s you are doing business with is key! The idea that all this went trough while Ashton THE CEO of a rival business was not being open with his employer/Ipswich/The Buyer is fantasy born out of the dislike for the man, that many of us, including me, have for the individual!

UK Fiduciary duty rules are in the link

https://www.diligent.com/en-gb/blog/main-fiduciary-duties-uk-company-directors/

Furthermore under IRS and regulations in the USA deals of this kind are scrutinized by the IRS and in the case of big deals the FBI, this is to minimize money laundering issues in sport which are rife. furthermore The FA and The EFL dont wake up one morning to be told...Oh by the way Ipswich have new owners....! 

If someone has implied that Ashton breached his fiduciary duty no wonder threats/cease and desist notices have been issued ALLEGEDLY!

Edited September 14, 2021 by REDOXO

[RedRock]

Tricky one isn’t it.

The facts are inconsistent in terms of validating a position. 
 

SL mentioning Ashton by name in opening the HPC, Nige saying some complimentary words about his then CEO -gives weight to parting on good terms vs no public departing message on the official Club site (to my knowledge), on/off the pitch leaving the Club in a perilous position- including losing £££ millions on players he signed, no slot-in replacement CEO, those issues makes you think he departed rapidly and under a cloud. 

 

Maybe someone could ask Nige at the forum what he really thought of Ashton. While his words probably wouldn’t give things away, his body language might. 

[chinapig]

12 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Tricky one isn’t it.

The facts are inconsistent in terms of validating a position. 
 

SL mentioning Ashton by name in opening the HPC, Nige saying some complimentary words about his then CEO -gives weight to parting on good terms vs no public departing message on the official Club site (to my knowledge), on/off the pitch leaving the Club in a perilous position- including losing £££ millions on players he signed, no slot-in replacement CEO, those issues makes you think he departed rapidly and under a cloud. 

 

Maybe someone could ask Nige at the forum what he really thought of Ashton. While his words probably wouldn’t give things away, his body language might. 

Largely platitudes for public consumption I think so as to avoid washing dirty linen in public.

I posted earlier in the thread that it may also be a question of SL's ego. Let's face it he was hoodwinked by Ashton and let him run amok but no way is he going to admit that. Least of all is he going to admit that the fans were right and he was wrong.

So SL is the one to put the questions to not NP but nobody is going to have the guts to ask him and he wouldn't answer them honestly anyway.

Though his comment about Gould not being one to recommend players gave us a glimpse of what he thinks of Ashton in hindsight.

Edited September 14, 2021 by chinapig

[RedRock]

5 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Largely platitudes for public consumption I think so as to avoid washing dirty linen in public.

I posted earlier in the thread that it may also be a question of SL's ego. Let's face it he was hoodwinked by Ashton and let him run amok but no way is he going to admit that. Least of all is he going to admit that the fans were right and he was wrong.

So SL is the one to put the questions to not NP but nobody is going to have the guts to ask him and he wouldn't answer them honestly anyway.

Though his comment about Gould not being one to recommend players gave us a glimpse of what he thinks of Ashton in hindsight.

Yeah but…. If someone had made me look a mug ,cost me £millons and left the Club on the precipice of relegation, I certainly wouldn’t mention him by name at a media event in a positive way.

If it was just a matter of trying to save face, I’d just erase him from the history of the Club. 

[Midlands Robin]

40 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

If someone has implied that Ashton breached his fiduciary duty no wonder threats/cease and desist notices have been issued ALLEGEDLY

So ultimately we've several options.

1) The breach of rules option which we'll discount as it could involve legal ramifications.

2) Ashton was not involved in any of the big work but was aware of the goings on, perhaps acted as a point of contact and was offered the role at Ipswich prior to SL being aware.

3) Ashton informed SL that he was working with investors to buy into Ipswich town on behalf of a former colleague and SL was happy for him to do so as long as it didn't effect his City work, ultimately Ashton decided to put his notice in and leave at the end of the season. 

4) Ashton woke up one morning to find a group of investors involving a long time friend and work mate of his had purchased Ipswich and quite out of the blue they called him up and offered him the CEO job.

Personally, I'd say the least likely of all of those would be option 3. I just can't see SL being happy with his CEO working for someone else when he should be concentrating 100 percent on Bristol City. 

From what I recall when the initial threads appeared on OTIB, there was no suggestion that any impropriety had taken place. The poster simply pointed out that a company with a link to one of Ashton's friends had popped up in relation to football investment. 

There was nothing more concrete than that. It was that scrap of info that sent the hot line at OTIB towers off.

Either way, I'm sure enough rocks will eventually get kicked over to reveal more light on the subject.

[chinapig]

18 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Yeah but…. If someone had made me look a mug ,cost me £millons and left the Club on the precipice of relegation, I certainly wouldn’t mention him by name at a media event in a positive way.

If it was just a matter of trying to save face, I’d just erase him from the history of the Club. 

Perhaps, or if you are Steve you keep up the pretence until he's gone to save face. A bit like a manager leaving by alleged mutual consent when everybody knows he's been sacked.

[REDOXO]

38 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

So ultimately we've several options.

1) The breach of rules option which we'll discount as it could involve legal ramifications.

2) Ashton was not involved in any of the big work but was aware of the goings on, perhaps acted as a point of contact and was offered the role at Ipswich prior to SL being aware.

3) Ashton informed SL that he was working with investors to buy into Ipswich town on behalf of a former colleague and SL was happy for him to do so as long as it didn't effect his City work, ultimately Ashton decided to put his notice in and leave at the end of the season. 

4) Ashton woke up one morning to find a group of investors involving a long time friend and work mate of his had purchased Ipswich and quite out of the blue they called him up and offered him the CEO job.

Personally, I'd say the least likely of all of those would be option 3. I just can't see SL being happy with his CEO working for someone else when he should be concentrating 100 percent on Bristol City. 

From what I recall when the initial threads appeared on OTIB, there was no suggestion that any impropriety had taken place. The poster simply pointed out that a company with a link to one of Ashton's friends had popped up in relation to football investment. 

There was nothing more concrete than that. It was that scrap of info that sent the hot line at OTIB towers off.

Either way, I'm sure enough rocks will eventually get kicked over to reveal more light on the subject.

I posted on here some time before anything got announced on any subject (M&A related) that the club at the time were not letting any information  out of the club and this felt like a quiet period before an announcement. (It’s in my posting history)  People at the time were concerned of the lack of info from the club! Subsequently  the Ipswich thing became common knowledge and SL went on a podcast stating his intent to look into investors/investment from outside. 
 

Your scenarios. Are thAt your scenarios. What has happened is relatively clear and has already put OUT there. No breach of rules has occurred to the best of anyone’s knowledge. The rule makers would include FA EFL IRS FBI HMIR UEFA FIFA et al.  Mark Ashton has not been charged with any kind of misconduct and has clearly complied with rules to the best of anyone’s knowledge as of today. He is not in any danger of being barred from holding future directorships to my knowledge and anything else that is stated/speculated on here or anywhere else to the contrary could get people into a world of pain!

Edit. I still don’t like him much, but have never met him so he could be a good bloke to have a beer with. Either way the man is not stupid enough to put his entire career in jeopardy particularly as he has been on the EFL board!

Edited September 14, 2021 by REDOXO

[Midlands Robin]

47 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

UEFA FIFA

Two paragons of virtue right there.

It's still possible to be an asshole and not break the law. Just look at 99 percent of the MP's involved in the expenses scandal.

Yes, my scenarios were very general and I agree, anyone leveling the accusation of illegal activities needs to be extremely sure of what they're saying before claiming such. 

I'm also sure that posting of a link between person A, person B and an Investment company isn't enough to bring Perry Mason banging on your door. 

Whatever went on, the last 12 months turned out pretty badly for our football club but didn't seem to effect the career of our former CEO.

Edit - But our future is definitely looking better with NP and RG in post.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Midlands Robin

[downendcity]

To paraphrase  Blackadder, Mark Ashton is as a cunning as a fox that’s just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University.

If the opportunity arose to “facilitate” his friend's investment group’s takeover of ITFC and that offered him the potential for personal advancement ( both in status and financially) then I am pretty sure he would know how to go about it without alerting his current employers and without compromising his position at BCFC.

It might not just have been the opportunity for personal and financial rewards that appealed. It might just have been that he could see the wheels coming off at BCFC thanks to some of the decisions he had made, so the ITFC opportunity gave him an exit strategy so that he could jump before being pushed, if it came to that.

Long term I think most are agreed that the club will progress better without MA at the helm. The only shame is that we’ve had to suffer the last 2-3 years to come to that realisation.

 

 

[Red Army 75]

Cook could be up for the chop. Losing again this time to West Ham U12s

[HappyClapper]

20 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Cook could be up for the chop. Losing again this time to West Ham U12s

Wow. They really are bad!

[Unan]

Should’ve lost by more

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Marcus Aurelius

[Port Said Red]

13 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

Should’ve lost by more

 

 

Not invested in Goaline Technology then?

[CyderInACan]

11 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Edit. I still don’t like him much, but have never met him so he could be a good bloke to have a beer with

No way would he have a beer. More likely one of those over the top cocktails that Del Boy used to drink!  

 

12 hours ago, Midlands Robin said:

Personally, I'd say the least likely of all of those would be option 3. I just can't see SL being happy with his CEO working for someone else when he should be concentrating 100 percent on Bristol City. 

Given the tailspin that we found ourselves in last season, for MA to have had any part of his attention anywhere other than BCFC would no way have been allowed by SL either formally or informally. Surely . . .