The Office (UK): Ipswich Town edition

[exAtyeoMax]

40 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

I wonder if the arrogant so and so will be in attendance that night?! 

Unfortunately I won't be but I want to hear the rousing cheers for him over the Radio Bristol airwaves. Three cheers for Mark Ashton…

[LondonBristolian]

59 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

A few thoughts on Ipswich/Mark Ashton.

1) I don't doubt he has learnt from some of his mistakes, of which there were no doubt many. I'm sure his experience (read 'failures') here will be of benefit to Ipswich.

2) McKenna and promotion momentum.

3) Waaaay too early make judgements on any team in the league. 2, 3 games without a win and you drop very quickly from the top 6.

4) Hard to know what his exact involvement in transfers at Ipswich is vs. what it was here. Could be much less in terms of player identification for example. Likewise we don't know how much he is 'supervised' or not by his now bosses vs. what SL did here.

5) We don't know what budgets/expectations are at Ipswich. Will a season or 2 in the championship push them towards FFP limits for example with an overloaded squad? Remember it took several years for his mess to unfold here and almost a year after he left for us to fully appreciate the full picture/shit show of his time here. 

We know the Ipswich fans love him, TBF he has seemingly delivered, so far. But don't forget, he was always loud and proud when things were good here, less so when it got tough....

 

The issue for me is he was a gambler. For all the flak he gets, the gambles generally went well for us up until the end of 2019. But a season of poor transfer business, the pandemic and a managerial gamble that didn't pay off showed that it was all built on foundations of sand. So for me, the test of whether he's learned and whether he's good for Ipswich is not so much what happens when things are going well but how the club's set up for the long-term.  Hopefully - even if Ipswich don't go up this season - he's not taking financial risks with the club's future in the same way he did with us. 

[One Team]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

He absolutely will be. And I don’t think he’ll be welcomed with open arms in the box/hospitality either…

A Section 82 banner display would be good!

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Lrrr said:

He rolled the dice with Ipswich's finances and got lucky they went up last season, if not they'd have been ****** and be asset stripping

Yep, you told me they would’ve had to lose people.

[Sleepy1968]

1 hour ago, One Team said:

A Section 82 banner display would be good!

Maybe Chelsea could send a letter of thanks and a shirt - we could present them to MA during the game.

PS No real issues with the three signing except maybe Palmer, who it appears LJ flip-flopped on. But we seemed to pay well over the odds both in terms of transfer fees and wages, when I'm sure there were better alternatives had we'd had a better recruitment policy. MAs look at me aren't I great statement signings.

[Tinmans Love Child]

I saw this stat on Sky:

No club in Sky Bet Championship history has picked up 27 or more points from their first 11 games and failed to win promotion that season.  

Ipswich Town have 28 and Leicester 30 after 11 games!

[luke_bristol]

3 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I saw this stat on Sky:

No club in Sky Bet Championship history has picked up 27 or more points from their first 11 games and failed to win promotion that season.  

Ipswich Town have 28 and Leicester 30 after 11 games!

Just shows the league might not be as tight as it was last season, which feels more and more like a missed opportunity to sneak into the play offs

[Harry]

36 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

Just shows the league might not be as tight as it was last season, which feels more and more like a missed opportunity to sneak into the play offs

Nah, it’ll still be very tight this year. 
Leicester will seemingly run away with it. 
I can’t see Ipswich keeping up the current form. Fair play to them so far but I look at their squad and I actually wonder how they’re doing it at the moment. Decent championship players yes, but I honestly can’t see a top 2 spot for them. 
Maybe if Leeds or Southampton get things together they might get a gap in 2nd place, but I still think that pretty much everyone else are very even - anyone can and will beat anyone else. 
It’ll still be very tight from 3rd or 4th right down to 12th or 13th. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Harry

[Northern Red]

31 minutes ago, Harry said:

Nah, it’ll still be very tight this year. 
Leicester will seemingly run away with it. 
I can’t see Ipswich keeping up the current form. Fair play to them so far but I look at their squad and I actually wonder how they’re doing it at the moment. Decent championship players yes, but I honestly can’t see a top 2 spot for them. 
Maybe if Leeds or Southampton get things together they might get a gap in 2nd place, but I still think that pretty much everyone else are very even - anyone can and will beat anyone else. 
It’ll still be very tight from 3rd or 4th right down to 12th or 13th. 

I do think Leeds might click and get 2nd, but everything below that is wide open.

[Redland]

I am sure that I am not the only one who has been waiting for newly promoted lpswich’s  bubble to burst but following yet another win yesterday they appear to be relentlessly marching on to automatic promotion to the Premier League.

Under their new US owners I believe Ashton was headhunted and has been given relatively free rein to run the club and the appointment of McKenna as manager has proved to be inspired. In contrast I think there is little doubt that the managerial appointments at City of Keith Millen, Lee Johnson and Dean Holden were driven by Steve Lansdown and Ashton had the unenviable job of presenting these underwhelming decisions to the fans and media. When he made comments along the lines of the “outstanding candidate“ being appointed what was he supposed to say? He could hardly say “well, it was Steve’s decision, so you better ask him.“

Similarly I am sure that it was SL’s decision to persist with LJ for over four and a half years including a remarkable period that saw the club “achieve” a new record for the number of successive league defeats.

The fact that we no longer even have a CEO provides further indication where the footballing decisions are made at our club.

As the season progresses I can’t help but feel envious of Ipswich and wonder if the previous criticism of Mark Ashton on this forum is justified. I certainly think it is reasonable to ask why he has been so successful at Ipswich and not here.

Incidentally a good mate of mine is an Ipswich fan and whilst they have a more successful history than us they are not a “fashionable’ club and I always think of them as a similar club to City. There is still a long way to go but I wish them all the best for the rest of the season.

[Silvio Dante]

7 minutes ago, Redland said:

As the season progresses I can’t help but feel envious of Ipswich and wonder if the previous criticism of Mark Ashton on this forum is justified.

Yes.

[cidercity1987]

Can't wait for Leeds to overtake them, then lose to Southampton in the play offs and McKenna gets headhunted by Crystal Palace.

We will see how the financial situation plays out thereafter

[richwwtk]

At one point with Ashton in place we were riding high in the Championship, had just beaten Man Utd to reach the semi final of the League Cup, we were being cast a lot of envious glances by other teams and being justifiably described as a Premier League team in waiting.

Then Frankie got sent off against Wolves and somehow the whole house of cards began to tumble.....

[Sturgess]

17 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Yes. But as always with our fans, if your face doesn’t fit…

… We’re going ballistic, Mav?

Edited December 10, 2023 by Sturgess

[Andy082005]

35 minutes ago, Redland said:

I am sure that I am not the only one who has been waiting for newly promoted lpswich’s  bubble to burst but following yet another win yesterday they appear to be relentlessly marching on to automatic promotion to the Premier League.

Under their new US owners I believe Ashton was headhunted and has been given relatively free rein to run the club and the appointment of McKenna as manager has proved to be inspired. In contrast I think there is little doubt that the managerial appointments at City of Keith Millen, Lee Johnson and Dean Holden were driven by Steve Lansdown and Ashton had the unenviable job of presenting these underwhelming decisions to the fans and media. When he made comments along the lines of the “outstanding candidate“ being appointed what was he supposed to say? He could hardly say “well, it was Steve’s decision, so you better ask him.“

Similarly I am sure that it was SL’s decision to persist with LJ for over four and a half years including a remarkable period that saw the club “achieve” a new record for the number of successive league defeats.

The fact that we no longer even have a CEO provides further indication where the footballing decisions are made at our club.

As the season progresses I can’t help but feel envious of Ipswich and wonder if the previous criticism of Mark Ashton on this forum is justified. I certainly think it is reasonable to ask why he has been so successful at Ipswich and not here.

Incidentally a good mate of mine is an Ipswich fan and whilst they have a more successful history than us they are not a “fashionable’ club and I always think of them as a similar club to City. There is still a long way to go but I wish them all the best for the rest of the season.

The one common denominator throughout 25 years of under achieving is the Lansdown family 

The quicker they sell up and move on the better 

[richwwtk]

11 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

The one common denominator throughout 25 years of under achieving is the Lansdown family 

The quicker they sell up and move on the better 

How is it 25 years of under achieving? You would be hard pushed to find a 25 year period in our history where our average league placing was higher.

We haven't been wildly successful, I will grant you that but seeing as most of our time has been spent as a yoyo between Championship and League 1 level we are now firmly established as a mid table Championship club with a better platform than we have ever had to push on.

Be careful what you wish for when the Lansdowns move on. You might think there is disconnect between the club and the fans now, it will only get worse...

[jambodinho]

Ipswich signed a silly amount of players when Ashton first arrived. A continuation of what he was doing here. Trading as he calls it. He hasn’t really been there that long but he’s already had to pay off a number of players that were signed by himself. It didn’t really go well under Paul Cook. The “trading” has slowed right down under McKenna. Maybe MA’s realised that he’s hit the jackpot in appointing him as head coach and is trying to stay out of the way. I remember Ipswich fans getting concerned by the lack of signings in the summer but if McKenna is of the same opinion as Nigel Pearson, that you don’t just bring in players for the sake of it, that they need to be an improvement on what you already have, then maybe Ashton has had to change his ways so that he doesn’t upset McKenna. 
If they go up this year then fair play to them. Incredible achievement. But if they don’t, and McKenna gets poached, they could be in a mess. He really seems to be the real deal. When you think of the likes of Wes Burns, Ladapo, Kayden Jackson, Luongo, Morsy, Lee Evans, Harness, Cameron Burgess, Dominic Ball, Sone Aluko, Hladky. Most of those either spent the majority of their careers in league 1/2 or were squad players at  other championship clubs. Not sure I’d particularly want any of them at City but KMc has got them all on board with his system and has them flying. Very impressive. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by jambodinho

[Mike Stone]

4 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

How is it 25 years of under achieving? You would be hard pushed to find a 25 year period in our history where our average league placing was higher.

We haven't been wildly successful, I will grant you that but seeing as most of our time has been spent as a yoyo between Championship and League 1 level we are now firmly established as a mid table Championship club with a better platform than we have ever had to push on.

Be careful what you wish for when the Lansdowns move on. You might think there is disconnect between the club and the fans now, it will only get worse...

Spot on 

[Silvio Dante]

I posted a few days ago that I think the appointment of Manning was in a lot of ways a reaction to what’s happening at Ipswich, both in terms of it being the latest thing that brings success (see Luton) and that there would be a part of the Lansdowns who look at Mark Ashton in harness with a head coach and think “hey, we were right after all”

As Fevs said in that thread, the trouble is that’s viewing the outcome and not the process. It seems McKenna is just exceptionally good and following the same approach may not give the same result.

[Red-Robbo]

15 minutes ago, jambodinho said:

Ipswich signed a silly amount of players when Ashton first arrived. A continuation of what he was doing here. Trading as he calls it. He hasn’t really been there that long but he’s already had to pay off a number of players that were signed by himself. It didn’t really go well under Paul Cook. The “trading” has slowed right down under McKenna. Maybe MA’s realised that he’s hit the jackpot in appointing him as head coach and is trying to stay out of the way. I remember Ipswich fans getting concerned by the lack of signings in the summer but if McKenna is of the same opinion as Nigel Pearson, that you don’t just bring in players for the sake of it, that they need to be an improvement on what you already have, then maybe Ashton has had to change his ways so that he doesn’t upset McKenna. 
If they go up this year then fair play to them. Incredible achievement. But if they don’t, and McKenna gets poached, they could be in a mess. He really seems to be the real deal. When you think of the likes of Wes Burns, Ladapo, Kayden Jackson, Luongo, Morsy, Lee Evans, Harness, Cameron Burgess, Dominic Ball, Sone Aluko, Hladky. Most of those either spent the majority of their careers in league 1/2 or were squad players at  other championship clubs. Not sure I’d particularly want any of them at City but KMc has got them all on board with his system and has them flying. Very impressive. 

 

I think that's the key:

Ashton + weak management = overspends & bloated squad; Ashton + competent management = success

[KegCity]

18 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

How is it 25 years of under achieving? You would be hard pushed to find a 25 year period in our history where our average league placing was higher.

We haven't been wildly successful, I will grant you that but seeing as most of our time has been spent as a yoyo between Championship and League 1 level we are now firmly established as a mid table Championship club with a better platform than we have ever had to push on.

Be careful what you wish for when the Lansdowns move on. You might think there is disconnect between the club and the fans now, it will only get worse...

Is there a trophy for that?

Edited December 10, 2023 by KegCity

[GrahamC]

55 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Can't wait for Leeds to overtake them, then lose to Southampton in the play offs and McKenna gets headhunted by Crystal Palace.

We will see how the financial situation plays out thereafter

Looking at their results over 20 games now I reckon you’ll be waiting a long time.

They are on a roll even better than ours under GJ in 2007/8.

As for Ashton, I despise him & Watford fans don’t like him either.

Maybe Ipswich have a system where his excesses are kept in check, under SL we sure didn’t.

On a related note I’m surprised no one has mentioned Fleetwood’s recent run, absolutely horrific, LJ looks in big trouble already (again).

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

Just now, KegCity said:

Is there any silverware for that?

They might not be prestigious, but I believe we've won 3 trophies in that time.

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Is there a trophy for that?

No, but he's got a point. It means gates about 80% up or more on the period immediately preceding it, and away trips to places like Elland Road and the Stadium of Light, rather than the Broadhall Way or the New Meadow.  Consistent second tier football has allowed the infrastructure to expand and improve.

It's just the Lansdowns haven't a clue how to make that final step to achieve their ultimate stated goals. 

[GrahamC]

59 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Yes. But as always with our fans, if your face doesn’t fit…

Engvall, Watkins, Adelakun, Palmer, Gimartin, Nagy.

Off the top of my head that’s over £10m spent (God knows what on wages) on nothing.

Ashton was good at selling high but the excessive, scatter gun spending of his era left us in real danger of failing FFP & with no assets to sell to solve this until Pearson came in.

Maybe Ipswich know his limits & have a structure that works but it isn’t that his face didn’t fit, he was a slippery individual who went missing when things went bad & was hated at Watford.

Much of this is on Steve Lansdown too who still appears to think an era when we spent about £180 for every £100 we earned (& never challenged even for the playoffs) was a success.

Gould is a big miss, we are well shot of Ashton whatever happens at Ipswich.

[Rob k]

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Engvall, Watkins, Adelakun, Palmer, Gimartin, Nagy.

Off the top of my head that’s over £10m spent (God knows what on wages) on nothing.

Ashton was good at selling high but the excessive, scatter gun spending of his era left us in real danger of failing FFP & with no assets to sell to solve this until Pearson came in.

Maybe Ipswich know his limits & have a structure that works but it isn’t that his face didn’t fit, he was a slippery individual who went missing when things went bad & was hated at Watford.

Much of this is on Steve Lansdown too who still appears to think an era when we spent about £180 for every £100 we earned (& never challenged even for the playoffs) was a success.

Gould is a big miss, we are well shot of Ashton whatever happens at Ipswich.

I also think he gets more praise than he deserves for ‘selling high’

In still not overly convinced we got more for our players than what we should have 

[tin]

23 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Looking at their results over 20 games now I reckon you’ll be waiting a long time.

They are on a roll even better than ours under GJ in 2007/8.

As for Ashton, I despise him & Watford fans don’t like him either.

Maybe Ipswich have a system where his excesses are kept in check, under SL we sure didn’t.

On a related note I’m surprised no one has mentioned Fleetwood’s recent run, absolutely horrific, LJ looks in big trouble already (again).

Exactly that IMO. He had the keys to the kingdom at Ashton Gate and due to SL’s neglect, he was accountable to nobody. At Ipswich, I’d guess the Americans expect ROI and therefore his wings have been clipped. He still had the spending spree on players last year, but appears to have struck gold with McKenna.  

[glynriley]

You can always tell when there is a collective downer on OTIB. 
 

1. Our young players are all shit and need a league 1 loan. 
2. Our older players are all over the hill. 
3. Mark Ashton wasn’t so bad after all.

As has been pointed out, the Lansdowns are the problem, the common denominator. Forget any thoughts about promotion while they are here, especially now Jon is seeking the council of a failed previous manager. The blood pressure will be a lot lower as a result. 
 

[And Its Smith]

Bizarre opening post. So if I get sacked for underperformed and then go somewhere else and perform well, my current company might have been wrong to sack me despite my poor performance?  It literally makes no sense 

[Redland]

25 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Engvall, Watkins, Adelakun, Palmer, Gimartin, Nagy.

Off the top of my head that’s over £10m spent (God knows what on wages) on nothing.

Ashton was good at selling high but the excessive, scatter gun spending of his era left us in real danger of failing FFP & with no assets to sell to solve this until Pearson came in.

Maybe Ipswich know his limits & have a structure that works but it isn’t that his face didn’t fit, he was a slippery individual who went missing when things went bad & was hated at Watford.

Much of this is on Steve Lansdown too who still appears to think an era when we spent about £180 for every £100 we earned (& never challenged even for the playoffs) was a success.

Gould is a big miss, we are well shot of Ashton whatever happens at Ipswich.

Yes, I appreciate that Ashton spent a lot of money but presumably the players he signed were wanted by whoever was the manager at the time.

[bearded_red]

In the main, no. The criticism was not unjustified. 
 

The only slight caveat to that, was I did feel at the time that there seemed to be a large section of fans that held him totally responsible for the utter mess we got into and allowed Steve Lansdown and Lee Johnson to get off scot-free. The main person responsible was always obviously Lansdown for allowing such shambolic overspending and Johnson, as he is currently proving once again, is an absolute fraud of a football manager who was never going to achieve anything regardless of how many millions you endlessly throw at him.

Luckily, two of the people named have now left the club, I eagerly await the day Steve Lansdown joins them.

Edited December 10, 2023 by bearded_red

[KegCity]

43 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

They might not be prestigious, but I believe we've won 3 trophies in that time.

All won at league one level? Huge achievement for the club that’s been trying and failing to finish in the play offs of the championship for nearly 20 years.

 

35 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

No, but he's got a point. It means gates about 80% up or more on the period immediately preceding it, and away trips to places like Elland Road and the Stadium of Light, rather than the Broadhall Way or the New Meadow.  Consistent second tier football has allowed the infrastructure to expand and improve.

It's just the Lansdowns haven't a clue how to make that final step to achieve their ultimate stated goals. 

Exactly. Which is why “consistent championship football” should be the bare minimum. 

[fisherrich]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

The one common denominator throughout 25 years of under achieving is the Lansdown family 

The quicker they sell up and move on the better 

Post of the Day!!

[jambodinho]

1 minute ago, Redland said:

Yes, I appreciate that Ashton spent a lot of money but presumably the players he signed were wanted by whoever was the manager at the time.

Pretty sure Lee Johnson insinuated or was possibly even quoted somewhere as saying he didn’t sign/want Szmodzics. The fact he never played the likes of Engvall, Adelukan, Mo Eisa, Szomdics suggest that the manager didn’t want them. We also signed a shed load of random youngsters like Tin Plavotic, Rory Holden and Johnny Smith under Ashton that were never going to be near the first team. That never happened before Ashton and hasn’t continued since he left. Not sure who’s master plan it was to think we could replicate Chelsea in signing a load of youngsters, loan them out then try to flog them at a profit. Ultimately Ashton was given far too much freedom to do what he wanted and that has taken the last few years to sort out. 

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

2 minutes ago, KegCity said:

All won at league one level? Huge achievement for the club that’s been trying and failing to finish in the play offs of the championship for nearly 20 years.

 

Exactly. Which is why “consistent championship football” should be the bare minimum. 

As wa said to you, we had a better average finishing position than most of out history in that time.

You asked about silverware and we got that too.

You seem to want it both ways.

[The Original OTIB]

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

Can't wait for Leeds to overtake them, then lose to Southampton in the play offs and McKenna gets headhunted by Crystal Palace.

We will see how the financial situation plays out thereafter

Think Palace or more likely Burnley will act sooner.

[headhunter]

21 minutes ago, tin said:

Exactly that IMO. He had the keys to the kingdom at Ashton Gate and due to SL’s neglect, he was accountable to nobody. At Ipswich, I’d guess the Americans expect ROI and therefore his wings have been clipped. He still had the spending spree on players last year, but appears to have struck gold with McKenna.  

That is the root cause of the problem. He does appear to be more accountable to his Masters in East Anglia.

[Redland]

6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Bizarre opening post. So if I get sacked for underperformed and then go somewhere else and perform well, my current company might have been wrong to sack me despite my poor performance?  It literally makes no sense 

Not bizarre at all. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to wonder why Ashton has been able to succeed at Ipswich when he was unable to achieve similar success here. 

To use your example, if we released a player or sacked an employee who then went on to achieve great things I think it would be unrealistic not to recognise this.

[fisherrich]

Ashton and the Lansdowns came as a “package” of failure.

One half has gone, just waiting for the other half to get out of Ashton Gate.

[Numero Uno]

48 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

No, but he's got a point. It means gates about 80% up or more on the period immediately preceding it, and away trips to places like Elland Road and the Stadium of Light, rather than the Broadhall Way or the New Meadow.  Consistent second tier football has allowed the infrastructure to expand and improve.

It's just the Lansdowns haven't a clue how to make that final step to achieve their ultimate stated goals. 

Unfortunately, that will be the legacy when it all comes to an end.........unless Jon can surprise us all in this final roll of the dice by the family.

[GrahamC]

20 minutes ago, Redland said:

Yes, I appreciate that Ashton spent a lot of money but presumably the players he signed were wanted by whoever was the manager at the time.

We’ll never know the answer to that.

Certainly rumours that Szmodics, Adelakun & Nagy weren’t wanted by LJ.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I posted a few days ago that I think the appointment of Manning was in a lot of ways a reaction to what’s happening at Ipswich, both in terms of it being the latest thing that brings success (see Luton) and that there would be a part of the Lansdowns who look at Mark Ashton in harness with a head coach and think “hey, we were right after all”

As Fevs said in that thread, the trouble is that’s viewing the outcome and not the process. It seems McKenna is just exceptionally good and following the same approach may not give the same result.

plus they rebuilt in League One. We can't afford to rebuild in the Championship as they did in League One.

[Numero Uno]

Unfair criticism? The *** didn't get anywhere enough for my liking. That is all.

[redsquirrel]

could be as simple as the owners at ipswich know what they are doing and dont sanction all of ashtons whims

[richwwtk]

1 hour ago, KegCity said:

Is there a trophy for that?

It included our first league chamionshop for 60 years....

[fisherrich]

2 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

could be as simple as the owners at ipswich know what they are doing and dont sanction all of ashtons whims

You beat me to it, whereas the Lansdowns ……

[Bazooka Joe]

26 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

I eagerly await the day Steve Lansdown joins them.

Me too.

But, spare a thought for poor, little abandoned Lansdown Jnr.

What would he do? Where would he go?

[Barrs Court Red]

He left us as a ticking time bomb financially, and regularly went into hiding  when things weren’t going so well - so yes, absolutely deserving of criticism. 
 

Not alone in creating the mess, but certainly holds a majority share in the blame. 

[Kid in the Riot]

2 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

He left us as a ticking time bomb financially

For me the vast majority of the blame for that though should be put at Steve Lansdown’s door. I mean the bloke is literally a financial advisor, presumably an extremely good one, given his level of success in the finance sector. 

He knew exactly what he was doing during that time, and what the consequences would be if we failed to get promoted. 

[jambodinho]

31 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

We’ll never know the answer to that.

Certainly rumours that Szmodics, Adelakun & Nagy weren’t wanted by LJ.

We might find out the answers once Lee Johnson writes his books

[redsquirrel]

39 minutes ago, jambodinho said:

We might find out the answers once Lee Johnson writes his books

id prefer it if jonboy did one,wouldnt need my glasses to read it, probs be illustrated aswell

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Redland said:

Not bizarre at all. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to wonder why Ashton has been able to succeed at Ipswich when he was unable to achieve similar success here. 

To use your example, if we released a player or sacked an employee who then went on to achieve great things I think it would be unrealistic not to recognise this.

Chuck enough shit at the wall and sometimes it sticks

[chinapig]

3 hours ago, jambodinho said:

Ipswich signed a silly amount of players when Ashton first arrived. A continuation of what he was doing here. Trading as he calls it. He hasn’t really been there that long but he’s already had to pay off a number of players that were signed by himself. It didn’t really go well under Paul Cook. The “trading” has slowed right down under McKenna. Maybe MA’s realised that he’s hit the jackpot in appointing him as head coach and is trying to stay out of the way. I remember Ipswich fans getting concerned by the lack of signings in the summer but if McKenna is of the same opinion as Nigel Pearson, that you don’t just bring in players for the sake of it, that they need to be an improvement on what you already have, then maybe Ashton has had to change his ways so that he doesn’t upset McKenna. 
If they go up this year then fair play to them. Incredible achievement. But if they don’t, and McKenna gets poached, they could be in a mess. He really seems to be the real deal. When you think of the likes of Wes Burns, Ladapo, Kayden Jackson, Luongo, Morsy, Lee Evans, Harness, Cameron Burgess, Dominic Ball, Sone Aluko, Hladky. Most of those either spent the majority of their careers in league 1/2 or were squad players at  other championship clubs. Not sure I’d particularly want any of them at City but KMc has got them all on board with his system and has them flying. Very impressive. 

Yes, his first season there, when he was constantly bigging himself up, was a failure.

My sense is that the owners reined him in so he was less involved in football matters and certainly doing less of the self love.

In our case Steve let him run riot with dire consequences. Though Steve will never admit that of course.

[fisherrich]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

For me the vast majority of the blame for that though should be put at Steve Lansdown’s door. I mean the bloke is literally a financial advisor, presumably an extremely good one, given his level of success in the finance sector. 

He knew exactly what he was doing during that time, and what the consequences would be if we failed to get promoted. 

People who I know who worked for HL, say John Hargreaves was all the brains behind the business. Makes sense to most. John H lived out near us for a while and came across as a very shrewd guy.

[View from the Dolman]

8 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

People who I know who worked for HL, say John Hargreaves was all the brains behind the business. Makes sense to most. John H lived out near us for a while and came across as a very shrewd guy.

Sounds like your associates weren't particularly attentive people - it's Peter Hargreaves who was a co-founder of HL.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

We’ll never know the answer to that.

Certainly rumours that Szmodics, Adelakun & Nagy weren’t wanted by LJ.

Szmodics post us has gone onto quite decent things in terms of goal return etc especially at Blackburn, also unsure we saw the best of Nagy..getting injured 1.5 games in never helps and the usual chopping and changing thereafter by LJ doesn't help anyone really.

[Kid in the Riot]

17 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

People who I know who worked for HL, say John Hargreaves was all the brains behind the business. Makes sense to most. John H lived out near us for a while and came across as a very shrewd guy.

Peter. A very different personality to Steve too. More of an extrovert and very chatty. I once spoke to him for a few minutes whilst we were both naked. 

[Jeez]

Maybe now it’s more acceptable to believe that MA actually had little influence in the appointment of LJ & Deano.  

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

As to the wider question in addition to McKenna seemingly being very good.

Ipswich and their owners possibly reined him in, tightened his remit perhaps. I don't like him, he and Lee Johnson left us in an almighty hole that Gould and NP did exceptionally well to dig us out of without FFP sanctions or relegation.

1) Maybe he is limited to dealing with agents, and aspects of commercial growth.

2) Plus the Football side in the sense of not identifying players but the financial side but with stricter oversight from the Owners and a budget that is stretched less.

Last season's accounts will be instructive but they don't seem to have gone nuts this summer. TV money rises by millions on promotion. Not PL millions but perhaps £7-9m.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Kid in the Riot]

10 minutes ago, Jeez said:

Maybe now it’s more acceptable to believe that MA actually had little influence in the appointment of LJ & Deano.  

Even at the time that was clear as day, surely? 

Does raise the interesting question of who MA would have appointed in both those situations, if he'd been given the power to make the appointments... 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Kid in the Riot

[Andy082005]

4 hours ago, richwwtk said:

How is it 25 years of under achieving? You would be hard pushed to find a 25 year period in our history where our average league placing was higher.

We haven't been wildly successful, I will grant you that but seeing as most of our time has been spent as a yoyo between Championship and League 1 level we are now firmly established as a mid table Championship club with a better platform than we have ever had to push on.

Be careful what you wish for when the Lansdowns move on. You might think there is disconnect between the club and the fans now, it will only get worse...

Look at the money that has been invested - and then look at the return on that investment 

We have massively underachieved 

As for being careful what we wish for - if the future is season after season of finishing 14th, with absolutely nothing to push for - no thanks 

I would rather roll the dice with new owners, take a chance - lose and end up in league 1, then just put up with 14th place football week on week for the next few years

People have been brainwashed into thinking the Lansdowns are the be all and end all 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Redland said:

I am sure that I am not the only one who has been waiting for newly promoted lpswich’s  bubble to burst but following yet another win yesterday they appear to be relentlessly marching on to automatic promotion to the Premier League.

Under their new US owners I believe Ashton was headhunted and has been given relatively free rein to run the club and the appointment of McKenna as manager has proved to be inspired. In contrast I think there is little doubt that the managerial appointments at City of Keith Millen, Lee Johnson and Dean Holden were driven by Steve Lansdown and Ashton had the unenviable job of presenting these underwhelming decisions to the fans and media. When he made comments along the lines of the “outstanding candidate“ being appointed what was he supposed to say? He could hardly say “well, it was Steve’s decision, so you better ask him.“

Similarly I am sure that it was SL’s decision to persist with LJ for over four and a half years including a remarkable period that saw the club “achieve” a new record for the number of successive league defeats.

The fact that we no longer even have a CEO provides further indication where the footballing decisions are made at our club.

As the season progresses I can’t help but feel envious of Ipswich and wonder if the previous criticism of Mark Ashton on this forum is justified. I certainly think it is reasonable to ask why he has been so successful at Ipswich and not here.

Incidentally a good mate of mine is an Ipswich fan and whilst they have a more successful history than us they are not a “fashionable’ club and I always think of them as a similar club to City. There is still a long way to go but I wish them all the best for the rest of the season.

Headhunted?

Or…

…used his time as CEO at Bristol City to sound out US Investors, ultimately for the benefit of another club.  Before you claim conspiracy, I wonder whether Gamechanger 2020 were pitched by Ashton to SL, but turned down.  The Florida trip coincided with NLS conferences (the tier below MLS) and the owners of Gamechanger own Phoenix FC (Phoenix Rising) of the NLS.

The other reason for 2+2, is that Ashton’s mentor Mike O’Leary is the Chairman of Ipswich, having been the same at West Brom and Oxford, where Ashton followed him.  And Ashton was also at Alcydon Ltd, O’Leary’s property company.

So less Headhunted, more a case of getting his protege in!

That’s one part of my view….see below.

3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I think that's the key:

Ashton + weak management = overspends & bloated squad; Ashton + competent management = success

And there is it summed up in a nutshell.  Thanks for putting it so succinctly.

That is the second part of my view.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

plus they rebuilt in League One. We can't afford to rebuild in the Championship as they did in League One.

We couldn’t even afford to rebuild in League One with the losses we incurred in the Champ.  That was why it was so important to stay in the Champ, which we negotiated well.

[Lrrr]

Well given he almost ruined Ipswich gambling everything on promotion last year I'd say criticism is still fair, he just got lucky this time. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Well given he almost ruined Ipswich gambling everything on promotion last year I'd say criticism is still fair, he just got lucky this time. 

Is that right? The accounts will be instructive.

[Gert Mare]

We were surprisingly in a similar position to Ipswich in December 2017 when we were top of the Championship and beating Man United.

We had ‘clubs in the bag’ which if we had reached the Premier League wouldn’t have been an issue. Unfortunately we had a a joker in charge of the team whose tactical excellence and studious knowledge was all in his own head. The Wolves game was the turning point and a good manager would have been able to regroup, focus and inspire his players. Unfortunately we went on a record breaking losing streak (and LJ did this twice, not once remember?) and failure to kick on (as well as Lansdown’s failure to back in the January transfer window) meant that the ultimate goal wasn’t achieved. The result has been years of struggling to stay within FFP. 

If Ipswich go up then they’ll get away with not having to be in a financial mess, but if they fail then expect to see the same turmoil that we have had to navigate.

[Lrrr]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is that right? The accounts will be instructive.

Was told every department which worked with the team would have to slash their budgets by 50% if they didn't go up

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Was told every department which worked with the team would have to slash their budgets by 50% if they didn't go up

Oof, thanks.

Shall make for very interesting reading when out. FFP or more a case of GameChanger drawing in their backing if no promotion?

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

We were surprisingly in a similar position to Ipswich in December 2017 when we were top of the Championship and beating Man United.

We had ‘clubs in the bag’ which if we had reached the Premier League wouldn’t have been an issue. Unfortunately we had a a joker in charge of the team whose tactical excellence and studious knowledge was all in his own head. The Wolves game was the turning point and a good manager would have been able to regroup, focus and inspire his players. Unfortunately we went on a record breaking losing streak (and LJ did this twice, not once remember?) and failure to kick on (as well as Lansdown’s failure to back in the January transfer window) meant that the ultimate goal wasn’t achieved. The result has been years of struggling to stay within FFP. 

If Ipswich go up then they’ll get away with not having to be in a financial mess, but if they fail then expect to see the same turmoil that we have had to navigate.

Ipswich have quite a bit more margin for error than us tbh albeit Leeds and Southampton they will push hard.

I dunno how many sites have got 48 pts from 20 games at this level, not many!

Less still not being top and by a few points at that.

We should have made playoffs for sure though IMO.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red_Alligator]

Nope.

Fair play to Ipswich, they're tearing it up. But I'm not interested in what Ashton might be contributing towards their success, Ipswich aren't my club. 

It's Ashton's time at City, and the well documented ramifications for my club that form my opinion of him. That won't change.