The Office (UK): Ipswich Town edition

[Mr Popodopolous]

You have to go back to 2002, I just checked for a time Ipswich wouldnt be top at this stage with that points tally and even then it would be joint top. We're talking moderately record breaking stuff really.

[exAtyeoMax]

47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We couldn’t even afford to rebuild in League One with the losses we incurred in the Champ.  That was why it was so important to stay in the Champ, which we negotiated well.

could we afford it now? 

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oof, thanks.

Shall make for very interesting reading when out. FFP or more a case of GameChanger drawing in their backing if no promotion?

Not FFP (SCMP), just a realisation that they’d spent two seasons going for it, and would’ve had to tightened their belts as a result.

[KegCity]

3 hours ago, richwwtk said:

It included our first league chamionshop for 60 years....

From a league we shouldn’t have dropped into in the first place! We were in the championship when Lansdown took over, took a backwards step getting relegated, recovered by getting back into the championship and have got nowhere since. I’ll be the first to admit we recovered in style, it would be better if we hadn’t filled the squad with overpaid journeymen and not got relegated in the first place.

Not letting the stadium fall down to me is the bare minimum from the owner. I appreciate not every owner can say they’ve done that but it’s not a massive ask. Lansdown bailing himself out after losing big chunks of money isn’t much of an achievement to me either. We could of course be in a much worse position, but we could be in a much better one. We’ve seen enough “smaller” clubs not have to have a fire sale every summer just to tread water shoot past us into the Premier League.

[KegCity]

4 hours ago, transfer reader said:

As wa said to you, we had a better average finishing position than most of out history in that time.

You asked about silverware and we got that too.

You seem to want it both ways.

No I just don’t particularly value silverware that we won after getting relegated. We could have another run of consecutive relegations, but winning the national league wouldn’t make up for the initial failure.

[Davefevs]

Just now, exAtyeoMax said:

could we afford it now? 

Good question.

Possibly, but you’d be losing your best players and starting from near-scratch, and we are still have a big cost-base to absorb, especially on Lg1 TV Money and SL no longer wanting to fund losses / invest.

[Red-Robbo]

One thing you've gotta say about Ipswich, is - Ashton or no Ashton - they punch above their weight.

A town that's the 42nd largest in the UK - and that's when you include neighbouring communities like Woodbridge, actually a town in its own right.

Ipswich proper is smaller than Bath and other then prostitute murders is really only known for its football heritage.  They were non-league until 1938, but by 1960 Ramsay had them in the top tier. It's quite a story, for a small-town club. 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You have to go back to 2002, I just checked for a time Ipswich wouldnt be top at this stage with that points tally and even then it would be joint top. We're talking moderately record breaking stuff really.

McKenna has only lost 15 of his 103 games in charge there. It's a phenomenal run. 

As others have said, they play some lovely football too. I just watched their highlights from yesterday, and both goals were very nice. 

They score tonnes of goals, and good ones at that. 

[Wanderingred]

5 hours ago, richwwtk said:

How is it 25 years of under achieving? You would be hard pushed to find a 25 year period in our history where our average league placing was higher.

All that does is highlight the fact that we are serial underachievers and have done pretty much nothing of note for 120 years. I can’t believe there are still people trotting out the “be careful what you wish for” line when talking about our ownership. I just don't have the words to express how much I like this post!

[Redland]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Headhunted?

Or…

…used his time as CEO at Bristol City to sound out US Investors, ultimately for the benefit of another club.  Before you claim conspiracy, I wonder whether Gamechanger 2020 were pitched by Ashton to SL, but turned down.  The Florida trip coincided with NLS conferences (the tier below MLS) and the owners of Gamechanger own Phoenix FC (Phoenix Rising) of the NLS.

The other reason for 2+2, is that Ashton’s mentor Mike O’Leary is the Chairman of Ipswich, having been the same at West Brom and Oxford, where Ashton followed him.  And Ashton was also at Alcydon Ltd, O’Leary’s property company.

So less Headhunted, more a case of getting his protege in!

That’s one part of my view….see below.

And there is it summed up in a nutshell.  Thanks for putting it so succinctly.

That is the second part of my view.

Thanks for the insight. I wasn’t aware of the background to this.

[petehinton]

I’ve thanked the footballing gods every day he’s been gone, since the day he left. Vile bloke, both in terms of what he did to the club, and for how he generally just acted as a person in his time here. 
 

We may now have an absolute vacuum of personality and charisma leading the club now, but rather that than have that smarmy ***** anywhere near us. 

[cidercity1987]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Peter. A very different personality to Steve too. More of an extrovert and very chatty. I once spoke to him for a few minutes whilst we were both naked. 

Intimate knowledge of the Lansdown family and their dealings. In the know about everything City. Seen Peter Hargreaves naked.

Are you Peter Hargreaves?

[firstdivision]

5 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I posted a few days ago that I think the appointment of Manning was in a lot of ways a reaction to what’s happening at Ipswich, both in terms of it being the latest thing that brings success (see Luton) and that there would be a part of the Lansdowns who look at Mark Ashton in harness with a head coach and think “hey, we were right after all”

As Fevs said in that thread, the trouble is that’s viewing the outcome and not the process. It seems McKenna is just exceptionally good and following the same approach may not give the same result.

It’s not just Ipswich though, Silvio. Quite a few clubs are going for the younger coaching ‘guru’ type (eg, Swed and QPR. Indeed, Oxford to replace Manning). Brighton went down that route a while back. So too Swansea. 

[downendcity]

Antipathy to the Lansdowns has created a lot of revisionist fans.

Suddenly Ashton appears to be regarded as an unfairly maligned patsy. If this carries on Robbored will posting that Gary Johnson was our greatest ever manager! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

It’s not just Ipswich though, Silvio. Quite a few clubs are going for the younger coaching ‘guru’ type (eg, Swed and QPR. Indeed, Oxford to replace Manning). Brighton went down that route a while back. So too Swansea. 

 Correct. How old is Carrick too or is he a slightly different category.

Sunderland maybe going for a Swedish manager under 40, how old is Rooney another- checked he's 38.

Just Googled him, Corberan only 40. Russell Martin 37.

Kompany 37, Maresca 43.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[GlastonburyRed]

2 hours ago, fisherrich said:

People who I know who worked for HL, say John Hargreaves was all the brains behind the business. Makes sense to most. John H lived out near us for a while and came across as a very shrewd guy.

Peter! Chew Magna lad isn’t he, a whole lot richer than Steve L, possibly because he sticks to his garden & his equine stuff rather than pumping. Multiple millions into us. Great stories of him having a bottle of Sauvignon B to himself lunchtimes at HL. Simpler times!!!

Edited December 10, 2023 by GlastonburyRed

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

It’s not just Ipswich though, Silvio. Quite a few clubs are going for the younger coaching ‘guru’ type (eg, Swed and QPR. Indeed, Oxford to replace Manning). Brighton went down that route a while back. So too Swansea. 

There seems to be lots of British managers approaching the end of their careers (Hodgson, Warnock, Pearson) and then lots of the 35-45 age bracket - but not as many in between that. 

It feels like in recent history there was plenty more mid-career managers on the circuit at our level (Gary J, Coppell, Cotterill, Dave Jones, Curbishley, Pardew,  Nigel Adkins, Owen Coyle).

I wonder if that, with clubs gravitating towards more of a ‘head coach’ style structure, that leaves that age group a bit out of the loop. They’re neither seen as progressive enough for the newer model nor experienced enough to be a ‘safe pair of hands’. 

[Supersonic Robin]

5 hours ago, richwwtk said:

How is it 25 years of under achieving? You would be hard pushed to find a 25 year period in our history where our average league placing was higher.

We haven't been wildly successful, I will grant you that but seeing as most of our time has been spent as a yoyo between Championship and League 1 level we are now firmly established as a mid table Championship club with a better platform than we have ever had to push on.

Be careful what you wish for when the Lansdowns move on. You might think there is disconnect between the club and the fans now, it will only get worse...

We are the biggest club in approximately the 7th biggest city in England. Despite that, we have never won a major trophy, never played in the Premier League, and have spent less than 10 years in the top flight of English football since our inception (and most of those years were pre-WW1).

There are very few (if any) clubs with our size and potential who have achieved so little. 

Unfortunately, the last 25 years is an extension of that failure to achieve. Yes, we've improved our facilities and become slightly more established in the Championship during that time. However, we're deliberating whether taking 25 years to go from "Bottom third Championship Club" to "Midtable Championship Club" constitutes achievement - the fact we even have to think about it shows that something isn't right.

Other clubs of a similar size/potential to us would (and do) laugh at some of the things we propose as successes.

[Davefevs]

44 minutes ago, Redland said:

Thanks for the insight. I wasn’t aware of the background to this.

I’ve spent a lot of hours researching….too many hours!!!

[Silvio Dante]

28 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

It’s not just Ipswich though, Silvio. Quite a few clubs are going for the younger coaching ‘guru’ type (eg, Swed and QPR. Indeed, Oxford to replace Manning). Brighton went down that route a while back. So too Swansea. 

Yeah good point and not disputing it. The issue that brings is an interesting one - a lot of those younger coaches have a similar ethos - possession heavy, waiting for mistakes. The problem is that if everyone is playing the same way either the coach has to be “the best” or the players have to be “the best” for it to work. It’s also not a style that fosters excitement (in the short term at least).

Tactically, the “batch” of coaches are interesting so I see why people like them. But I’m not sure what gives individual coaches the edge when they all seem to have gone to the same school.

[lenred]

2 hours ago, KegCity said:

From a league we shouldn’t have dropped into in the first place! We were in the championship when Lansdown took over, took a backwards step getting relegated, recovered by getting back into the championship and have got nowhere since. I’ll be the first to admit we recovered in style, it would be better if we hadn’t filled the squad with overpaid journeymen and not got relegated in the first place.

Not letting the stadium fall down to me is the bare minimum from the owner. I appreciate not every owner can say they’ve done that but it’s not a massive ask. Lansdown bailing himself out after losing big chunks of money isn’t much of an achievement to me either. We could of course be in a much worse position, but we could be in a much better one. We’ve seen enough “smaller” clubs not have to have a fire sale every summer just to tread water shoot past us into the Premier League.

Glad someone’s said it.  Alway makes me cringe this ‘league champions’ and ‘double winners’ stuff.  It’s tinpot.  Like you say we shouldn’t even have been there.   

[BCFC31]

I'd be amazed if Ipswich doesn't get back to back promotion they were by far the best side I have seen down ashton gate for a long time you have to admire what's going on down there absolutely class stuff couldn't stand mark ashton but it's working treat for him there 

[redysteadygo]

Is it now that after learning his trade at former clubs MA is just the bean counter and the recruitment is down to knowledgeable personnel within Ipswich FC and his involvement is on the financial aspects of trading where he royally f*cked up at Ashton Gate.

[ITFC Fan in peace]

ITFC fan in peace.

The FFP thing comes up a lot on here, and seems to be by far the biggest criticism of Ashton. When listening to Ashton in interviews here though, two things he says stick in my mind:-

1) He mentioned in previous interviews that the danger for owners is to run the club on emotion when the 'promised land' seems tantalisingly close. You were in a great position to get promoted a few seasons ago and pushed the spending button. I'm sure Ashton didn't oppose it, but ultimately it was the Lansdowns money and I'm sure they had the final say. I think the Lansdowns are who he is referring to when he spoke of emotions.

2)  Ashton has repeatedly said how refreshing it is that McKenna has such specific profiles in respect of transfer targets that he will not move away from and would rather make do than sign a makeweight. I think Ashton just enjoys the challenge of obtaining a transfer target and seems to be pretty good at it, but I can see how that could be dangerous when recruiting for a manager who is less skilled at identifying the right targets (compare with Paul Cook, who wasn't bad at all but had a few misses and no real philosophy behind his targets) or a Harry Redknapp approach (yeah hes a good player get him in).

I'm not saying Ashton was totally blameless.....he had a key role with you, and should have been the voice of caution and reason at a critical time. But if he did have the go ahead to spend from the Lansdowns, and he merely signed players the manager wanted at the time, is it really fair to pin everything on him? Throw in Covid, and it just seems more like a mixture of throwing the dice and a lot of misfortune.

Genuinely wish you guys all the best for the rest of the season.

[fisherrich]

25 minutes ago, ITFC Fan in peace said:

ITFC fan in peace.

The FFP thing comes up a lot on here, and seems to be by far the biggest criticism of Ashton. When listening to Ashton in interviews here though, two things he says stick in my mind:-

1) He mentioned in previous interviews that the danger for owners is to run the club on emotion when the 'promised land' seems tantalisingly close. You were in a great position to get promoted a few seasons ago and pushed the spending button. I'm sure Ashton didn't oppose it, but ultimately it was the Lansdowns money and I'm sure they had the final say. I think the Lansdowns are who he is referring to when he spoke of emotions.

2)  Ashton has repeatedly said how refreshing it is that McKenna has such specific profiles in respect of transfer targets that he will not move away from and would rather make do than sign a makeweight. I think Ashton just enjoys the challenge of obtaining a transfer target and seems to be pretty good at it, but I can see how that could be dangerous when recruiting for a manager who is less skilled at identifying the right targets (compare with Paul Cook, who wasn't bad at all but had a few misses and no real philosophy behind his targets) or a Harry Redknapp approach (yeah hes a good player get him in).

I'm not saying Ashton was totally blameless.....he had a key role with you, and should have been the voice of caution and reason at a critical time. But if he did have the go ahead to spend from the Lansdowns, and he merely signed players the manager wanted at the time, is it really fair to pin everything on him? Throw in Covid, and it just seems more like a mixture of throwing the dice and a lot of misfortune.

Genuinely wish you guys all the best for the rest of the season.

I think point 2 is key. Bristol City had next to no scouted potentials at the time, just a “scattergun approach” - oh he’s available, let’s buy him was how it appeared (which Ashton did), with no structure to the Plan.

Squad was then bloated in players that just weren’t good enough. And in the meantime, the true quality players were sold.

The rest is history. We need new owners badly.

I have a lot of respect for Ipswich and sincerely hope you go up.

[exAtyeoMax]

32 minutes ago, ITFC Fan in peace said:

ITFC fan in peace.

The FFP thing comes up a lot on here, and seems to be by far the biggest criticism of Ashton. When listening to Ashton in interviews here though, two things he says stick in my mind:-

1) He mentioned in previous interviews that the danger for owners is to run the club on emotion when the 'promised land' seems tantalisingly close. You were in a great position to get promoted a few seasons ago and pushed the spending button. I'm sure Ashton didn't oppose it, but ultimately it was the Lansdowns money and I'm sure they had the final say. I think the Lansdowns are who he is referring to when he spoke of emotions.

2)  Ashton has repeatedly said how refreshing it is that McKenna has such specific profiles in respect of transfer targets that he will not move away from and would rather make do than sign a makeweight. I think Ashton just enjoys the challenge of obtaining a transfer target and seems to be pretty good at it, but I can see how that could be dangerous when recruiting for a manager who is less skilled at identifying the right targets (compare with Paul Cook, who wasn't bad at all but had a few misses and no real philosophy behind his targets) or a Harry Redknapp approach (yeah hes a good player get him in).

I'm not saying Ashton was totally blameless.....he had a key role with you, and should have been the voice of caution and reason at a critical time. But if he did have the go ahead to spend from the Lansdowns, and he merely signed players the manager wanted at the time, is it really fair to pin everything on him? Throw in Covid, and it just seems more like a mixture of throwing the dice and a lot of misfortune.

Genuinely wish you guys all the best for the rest of the season.

What is so galling is that Cotts and Keith Burt scouted to a plan in League One and built a fantastic team, then it was more or less ripped apart by SL, LJ and MA in the Championship, replacing them with "clubs in the bag" type players, some ok but some not, he also increased the wage bill massively. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

It would be very "Bristol City" if we dispensed with an employee only for them to speed past us in no time at all, straight to the Premier League.

Just something else to add to the list marked "You couldn't make it up".

There is such a thing as being promoted too quickly though. But good luck to them, if not him.

And, yes, there's also not being promoted quickly enough. We are world champions at that one.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

It would be very "Bristol City" if we dispensed with an employee only for them to speed past us in no time at all, straight to the Premier League.

Just something else to add to the list marked "You couldn't make it up".

Good luck to them, if not him.

Wouldn’t it also shine a light on the total incompetence of the Lansdowns?

I despise Ashton but it is obvious that he has certain skills when reined in.

He was in my opinion a disaster for us, the question for Guernsey (like he cares any more) is why didn’t it work for us but is doing so in Suffolk.

 

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Wouldn’t it also shine a light on the total incompetence of the Lansdowns?

I despise Ashton but it is obvious that he has certain skills when reined in.

He was in my opinion a disaster for us, the question for Guernsey (like he cares any more) is why didn’t it work for us but is doing so in Suffolk.

 

You could be very close to the truth. 

All about balance , he was rightly criticised before MA and told he needed a "football" man in. Unfortunately he got Ashton and gave him the keys to the ranch. 

It seems to go Steve is either too full on or too distanced .

[Merrick's Marvels]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Wouldn’t it also shine a light on the total incompetence of the Lansdowns?

I despise Ashton but it is obvious that he has certain skills when reined in.

He was in my opinion a disaster for us, the question for Guernsey (like he cares any more) is why didn’t it work for us but is doing so in Suffolk.

 

Yes, I think the Ipswich fan touches on it above - the logical conclusion is that the owners here and their wonderboy Lee Johnson were not good enough or clever enough and had no clear plan how to succeed (Johnson’s "clubs in the bag" philosophy is the giveaway - "can I have one of everything please sir, just in case"). Whereas over there they have owners with a clearer plan and certainly a superior manager. Working within clearly defined parameters, Ashton has made more good signings than bad and is also getting a lot more bang for the Yankee owners buck than Guernsey ever did for his. He also appears to be unable to sign players over the manager's head now, which has to be a good thing. "I could write a book" Johnson once said, well he might have time to do that sooner rather than later the way Fleetwood are going.

[The Nest Egg]

On 10/12/2023 at 15:34, lenred said:

Glad someone’s said it.  Alway makes me cringe this ‘league champions’ and ‘double winners’ stuff.  It’s tinpot.  Like you say we shouldn’t even have been there.   

I just refer to it as the s**t double

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Mark Ashton- really nice bloke and I'm pleased he's proving his worth at Ipswich. Shame he didn't finish the job at BCFC but our best talent in whatever department eventually gets poached by a bigger club.

[Northern Red]

[alexukhc]

So it was LJ all along n not Ashton, oh 

[Bristol Rob]

5 hours ago, ITFC Fan in peace said:

ITFC fan in peace.

 

Just when, exactly, did an away fan go on another clubs message board with nefarious intentions?

If you were registered as 'ITFC with genocide in mind', I might have read your post, (which to be fair, I will do in a bit), but this whole 'in peace' nonsense really boils my urine.

As you were.

[fgrsimon]

On 10/12/2023 at 08:37, GrahamC said:

Looking at their results over 20 games now I reckon you’ll be waiting a long time.

They are on a roll even better than ours under GJ in 2007/8.

As for Ashton, I despise him & Watford fans don’t like him either.

Maybe Ipswich have a system where his excesses are kept in check, under SL we sure didn’t.

On a related note I’m surprised no one has mentioned Fleetwood’s recent run, absolutely horrific, LJ looks in big trouble already (again).

I still think Leeds will hunt them down eventually this season. Bigger, better squad, more intimidating ground/support and every club will have a losing wobble at some point, Leeds have already had theirs (start of season).

Yeah Lee Johnson lost 3-0, 3-0, 4-0 3-0 and 3-0 in last 5 games, it's officially a 'streak'! Next games v Peterborough and Pompey.... has a manager ever been sacked twice before Christmas?

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I hope Ipswich get a normal share of injuries. Might put them down a peg.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/571546/page:2

Ashton did us damage, was indulged too much and Player Trading to underpin was a crazy strategy.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Street red]

On 11/12/2023 at 17:27, ITFC Fan in peace said:

ITFC fan in peace.

The FFP thing comes up a lot on here, and seems to be by far the biggest criticism of Ashton. When listening to Ashton in interviews here though, two things he says stick in my mind:-

1) He mentioned in previous interviews that the danger for owners is to run the club on emotion when the 'promised land' seems tantalisingly close. You were in a great position to get promoted a few seasons ago and pushed the spending button. I'm sure Ashton didn't oppose it, but ultimately it was the Lansdowns money and I'm sure they had the final say. I think the Lansdowns are who he is referring to when he spoke of emotions.

2)  Ashton has repeatedly said how refreshing it is that McKenna has such specific profiles in respect of transfer targets that he will not move away from and would rather make do than sign a makeweight. I think Ashton just enjoys the challenge of obtaining a transfer target and seems to be pretty good at it, but I can see how that could be dangerous when recruiting for a manager who is less skilled at identifying the right targets (compare with Paul Cook, who wasn't bad at all but had a few misses and no real philosophy behind his targets) or a Harry Redknapp approach (yeah hes a good player get him in).

I'm not saying Ashton was totally blameless.....he had a key role with you, and should have been the voice of caution and reason at a critical time. But if he did have the go ahead to spend from the Lansdowns, and he merely signed players the manager wanted at the time, is it really fair to pin everything on him? Throw in Covid, and it just seems more like a mixture of throwing the dice and a lot of misfortune.

Genuinely wish you guys all the best for the rest of the season.

Luck? We need more than that this season at the minute it is going down the toilet. We are not a happy bunch at the minute thanks for trying to sweeten Ashton up but I couldn't give a rats arse about him.The Lansdowns and him set this club back but agree the Lansdowns are the issue and it's all starting to come out of the wash what they are like.

Cracking start to your season let's see if you keep the momentum for the rest.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Street red

[Dan11]

14 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I hope Ipswich get a normal share of injuries. Might put them down a peg.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/571546/page:2

Ashton did us damage, was indulged too much and Player Trading to underpin was a crazy strategy.

We are fortunate we've not had any bone injuries (breaks etc) that are somewhat outside of our control but there is no luck about us being able to avoid muscle injuries. Since Rolls and his team came across from you guys they've been exceptional. We also recruited Ivan Mukandi (ex Arsenal, head of strength and conditioning) and Matt Allen (ex Spurs, head of athletic performance). We've invested properly in this area and gone from a club that could never keep players fit to one where we rarely get injuries. There's no coincidence there. We seem to be able to manage players before they get an injury - Broadhead is the most obvious example, his minutes are very closely managed. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Dan11 said:

We are fortunate we've not had any bone injuries (breaks etc) that are somewhat outside of our control but there is no luck about us being able to avoid muscle injuries. Since Rolls and his team came across from you guys they've been exceptional. We also recruited Ivan Mukandi (ex Arsenal, head of strength and conditioning) and Matt Allen (ex Spurs, head of athletic performance). We've invested properly in this area and gone from a club that could never keep players fit to one where we rarely get injuries. There's no coincidence there. We seem to be able to manage players before they get an injury - Broadhead is the most obvious example, his minutes are very closely managed. 

Here it went badly wrong but maybe there is something deeper, Idk. Clearly avoiding injuries is important.

Nothing against Ipswich but Mark Ashton...

Going to stick my neck out and say I don't think Ipswich woukd be 2nd or setting new records certainly with the normal level of injuries. Let alone the amount we have had, not saying we would be 2nd or anything if swapped around but our injury thread is testament to out situation.

Yes managing a tricky situation before it unfolds is often of use.

There must be an element of luck to it though as well because our situation has been challenging for 5 or 6 seasons now, maybe 7 regardless of staff, including some of those now at Ipswich. 

[Dan11]

49 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Here it went badly wrong but maybe there is something deeper, Idk. Clearly avoiding injuries is important.

Nothing against Ipswich but Mark Ashton...

Going to stick my neck out and say I don't think Ipswich woukd be 2nd or setting new records certainly with the normal level of injuries. Let alone the amount we have had, not saying we would be 2nd or anything if swapped around but our injury thread is testament to out situation.

Yes managing a tricky situation before it unfolds is often of use.

There must be an element of luck to it though as well because our situation has been challenging for 5 or 6 seasons now, maybe 7 regardless of staff, including some of those now at Ipswich. 

I think it goes without saying that any team that can't keep their best players fit isn't going to be as successful. There might be a small element of luck but most of it is down to staff, facilities and analysis of data around red zones etc - it's definitely not finger in the air and hope players stay fit. 

We couldn't keep Adam Webster fit for a prolonged run of games at Ipswich. I can't remember if Ashton said this when he was with you or it's something he's said since he was here, but he knew we under invested in our medical team/facilities and backed Bristol City to be able to keep him fit. You did and then sold him for 7/8 times what you paid us!

[The Humble Realist]

Dont know if we need to eat humble pie over Ashton. He was a huge problem in many ways during his time here , including alienating a large part of the fan base with his demeanour. 

Dont forget the Holden debacle was firmly his own doing.

 

[Fuber]

On 10/12/2023 at 07:46, richwwtk said:

At one point with Ashton in place we were riding high in the Championship, had just beaten Man Utd to reach the semi final of the League Cup, we were being cast a lot of envious glances by other teams and being justifiably described as a Premier League team in waiting.

Then Frankie got sent off against Wolves and somehow the whole house of cards began to tumble.....

Add in LJs Tombola.

I hated Ashton's mannerisms, but with him poaching Probert he evidently actually had an eye for staff. The more time that passes and the better Ipswich do, the more I consider in contect that the buck starts to stop more with the ownership and LJ.

Still an ego-centric tit mind.

[Port Said Red]

On 13/12/2023 at 18:52, Mr Popodopolous said:

I hope Ipswich get a normal share of injuries. Might put them down a peg.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/571546/page:2

Ashton did us damage, was indulged too much and Player Trading to underpin was a crazy strategy.

It was just around Xmas when the wheels fell off the Ashton train when he was here, let's see if history repeats itself.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

It was just around Xmas when the wheels fell off the Ashton train when he was here, let's see if history repeats itself.

Could happen. The rate at which they are going and accumulating points however I would have thought playoffs at worst.

We never had a 10 point cushion over 3rd either. Nothing close- possibly over the playoffs at some points.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[The Humble Realist]

According to the commentator in the Ipswich v norwich game Ashton had McKenna on a shortlist for the job here. 

I call classic Mark Ashton BS. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I do hope Ipswich start to slip and slide, lose in the playoffs and then the fun could begin. Their position looks a very strong one though and they have a budget as per Nixon of £3m for a striker in January, wage up to £15k per week.

I'm intrigued as to how they complied with the SCMP because their wages exceeded turnover in 2021-22. Was limited to football wages as 60% wasn't it...or was it owner input at that level.

McKenna though seems a brilliant acquisition. Some of Ashton and his worse traits seem to have been forcibly reined in but it defies many many rational sets of analysis looking at the Ipswich squad and seeing 52 pts from 22 games at this level.

Slight bitterness aside, they are player for player overachieving somewhat for the level IMO. Momentum and confidence can be a powerful factor too of course.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Found an old post on an Ipswich forum early on in Ashton's tenure. If this is broadly accurate they're absurdly ahead of schedule.

7 year plan is fairly generous for an Arizona Pension Fund entering a loss making industry with some strict FFP regs.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Redrascal2]

57 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I do hope Ipswich start to slip and slide, lose in the playoffs and then the fun could begin. Their position looks a very strong one though and they have a budget as per Nixon of £3m for a striker in January, wage up to £15k per week.

I'm intrigued as to how they complied with the SCMP because their wages exceeded turnover in 2021-22. Was limited to football wages as 60% wasn't it...or was it owner input at that level.

McKenna though seems a brilliant acquisition. Some of Ashton and his worse traits seem to have been forcibly reined in but it defies many many rational sets of analysis looking at the Ipswich squad and seeing 52 pts from 22 games at this level.

Slight bitterness aside, they are player for player overachieving somewhat for the level IMO. Momentum and confidence can be a powerful factor too of course.

It would seem to me that Ashton is managed at Ipswich as opposed to the lack of oversight  when he  was here .Jon Lansdown  was playing with crayons all day and Steve had turned his back on the running of the club. At Ipswich they use Ashton's talents but control it and ensure he follows their plan. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

It would seem to me that Ashton is managed at Ipswich as opposed to the lack of oversight  when he  was here .Jon Lansdown  was playing with crayons all day and Steve had turned his back on the running of the club. At Ipswich they use Ashton's talents but control it and ensure he follows their plan. 

He does seem on a tight leash there.

Jon Lansdown and Lee Johnson as a fellow top team is a horrendous lack of oversight.

[Dan11]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I do hope Ipswich start to slip and slide, lose in the playoffs and then the fun could begin. Their position looks a very strong one though and they have a budget as per Nixon of £3m for a striker in January, wage up to £15k per week.

I'm intrigued as to how they complied with the SCMP because their wages exceeded turnover in 2021-22. Was limited to football wages as 60% wasn't it...or was it owner input at that level.

McKenna though seems a brilliant acquisition. Some of Ashton and his worse traits seem to have been forcibly reined in but it defies many many rational sets of analysis looking at the Ipswich squad and seeing 52 pts from 22 games at this level.

Slight bitterness aside, they are player for player overachieving somewhat for the level IMO. Momentum and confidence can be a powerful factor too of course.

"However the Football League use a is broader definition of Turnover. Crucially, the FL Turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. Loans from club owners are understandably not included in the Turnover figure as these would result in growing club debts. up club debts."

All of the money put into ITFC is equity funding rather than debt. We built a side we thought could compete in the Championship whilst we were still in L1. It's impossible not to comply with SCMP as it is far more interactive/monitored in real time than FFP in the Championship. 

I don't know where this idea we are spending well beyond our means comes from. We have plenty of headroom and if we don't go up this season Leif Davis will go for huge money in the summer. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Dan11

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Dan11 said:

"However the Football League use a is broader definition of Turnover. Crucially, the FL Turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. Loans from club owners are understandably not included in the Turnover figure as these would result in growing club debts. up club debts."

All of the money put into ITFC is equity funding rather than debt. We built a side we thought could compete in the Championship whilst we were still in L1. It's impossible not to comply with SCMP as it is far more interactive/monitored in real time than FFP in the Championship. 

Right thanks. Seems a bit daft that all 4 divisions have differing systems but that's life I guess. Possibly reflects club income somewhat.

The equity funding...That doesn't count towards income post promotion, how it works between the 2 divisions is an oddity but the last 2 League 1 and current Championship £39m plus allowables..3 years, equity takes to the £39m but doesn't count as income as such.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

It would seem to me that Ashton is managed at Ipswich as opposed to the lack of oversight  when he  was here .Jon Lansdown  was playing with crayons all day and Steve had turned his back on the running of the club. At Ipswich they use Ashton's talents but control it and ensure he follows their plan. 

Yep, I never doubted Ashton was a decent “administrator”, but interfering in recruitment was my biggest complaint.

4 minutes ago, Dan11 said:

"However the Football League use a is broader definition of Turnover. Crucially, the FL Turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. Loans from club owners are understandably not included in the Turnover figure as these would result in growing club debts. up club debts."

All of the money put into ITFC is equity funding rather than debt. We built a side we thought could compete in the Championship whilst we were still in L1. It's impossible not to comply with SCMP as it is far more interactive/monitored in real time than FFP in the Championship. 

I don't know where this idea we are spending well beyond our means comes from. We have plenty of headroom and if we don't go up this season Leif Davis will go for huge money in the summer. 

Not spending beyond your means, because your losses are backed (like SL does here) by Gamechanger / Arizona.  And you have certain players you can sell.

But your losses for last season will be interesting when announced.  They doubled in 21/22 from 20/21.  I expect similar losses last season, circa £12m mark.  And this season plus 22/23 and 21/22 will be used for FFP.  You’ll be fine, and if you go up it all becomes a bit irrelevant!!  If you don’t, you probably have next season to push again…and then you’ll be into relying on strong “trading” to keep you up there.  If that makes sense?

Totally agree that you used SCMP to your advantage, to avoid you having to spend big the summer just gone.

[Dan11]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, I never doubted Ashton was a decent “administrator”, but interfering in recruitment was my biggest complaint.

Not spending beyond your means, because your losses are backed (like SL does here) by Gamechanger / Arizona.  And you have certain players you can sell.

But your losses for last season will be interesting when announced.  They doubled in 21/22 from 20/21.  I expect similar losses last season, circa £12m mark.  And this season plus 22/23 and 21/22 will be used for FFP.  You’ll be fine, and if you go up it all becomes a bit irrelevant!!  If you don’t, you probably have next season to push again…and then you’ll be into relying on strong “trading” to keep you up there.  If that makes sense?

Totally agree that you used SCMP to your advantage, to avoid you having to spend big the summer just gone.

Yes, that doubling of losses was reflective of the fact Marcus Evans ran the entire club on skeleton staff and had invested in nothing for years! Spending on every aspect of the club increased (and in 22/23) - players wages, staff wages, women's team, infrastructure etc. Some of that is going to be capital expenditure, some of it allowable for FFP and some of it not. We spent very little in the summer really. We've also obviously got increased income this year from TV etc too.

I suspect we are going to spend a decent chunk of change on another striker this January and there will probably be another couple of ins and outs. There's already interest in Davis around the £15m mark so we've got that as a safety valve this summer. We'd be really daft not to have a push this window when we will sit somewhere between 7-13 points clear of 3rd come January 1st. We will never be in a better position going into a mid season transfer window.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Dan11

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Dan11 said:

Yes, that doubling of losses was reflective of the fact Marcus Evans ran the entire club on skeleton staff and had invested in nothing for years! Spending on every aspect of the club increased (and in 22/23) - players wages, staff wages, women's team, infrastructure etc. Some of that is going to be capital expenditure, some of it allowable for FFP and some of it not. We spent very little in the summer really. We've also obviously got increased income this year from TV etc too.

I suspect we are going to spend a decent chunk of change on another striker this January and there will probably be another couple of ins and outs. There's already interest in Davis around the £15m mark so we've got that as a safety valve this summer. We'd be really daft not to have a push this window when we will sit somewhere between 7-13 points clear of 3rd come January 1st. We will never be in a better position going into a mid season transfer window.

Would be an opportune time to give it a bit of a go in January yeah.

We made a similar mistake in January 2008 prior to any kind of FFP.

Leeds must be kicking themselves to have let Davis go albeit I guess they were PL at the time? How much did he cost.

The income excluding donations in 2021-22 was £14.439m.

[Dan11]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Would be an opportune time to give it a bit of a go in January yeah.

We made a similar mistake in January 2008 prior to any kind of FFP.

Leeds must be kicking themselves to have let Davis go albeit I guess they were PL at the time? How much did he cost.

The income excluding donations in 2021-22 was £14.439m.

Davis was around £1.25m + add ons. An absolute steal. Although Broadhead and Hirst at £1.5m + add ons each don't look bad either!

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Dan11 said:

Davis was around £1.25m + add ons. An absolute steal. Although Broadhead and Hirst at £1.5m + add ons each don't look bad either!

 

 

Very much a steal yeah.

Ipswich normal income.now my best guess would be in the range of £20-25m factoring in on-field success, TV money rise, £15-20m for last season given the on pitch success, probably increased commercial activity- the cost base increase will also be interesting last season moreso.

If Leeds didn't put a sell on clause on Davis more fool them. Albeit with PL revenue a sell on clause for Davis maybe didn't figure highly in their thinking? Who knows.

[Mr Popodopolous]

[Mr Popodopolous]

Morsy could also miss a range of games via the AFCON and Hirst seems to have a hamstring.

Let's see if they get some injuries and suspensions let alone at our level of injuries how they do.

Also think Broadhead was lucky not to get a red v Leeds..

Edited December 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Morsy could also miss a range of games via the AFCON AND Hirst seems to have a hamstring.

Let's see if they get some injuries and suspensions let alone at our level of injuries how they do.

Also think Broadhead was lucky not to get a red v Leeds..

Morsy has announced he isn’t going to AFCON.

Hirst is out for a while though.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Make you right Dave.

https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/24014753.ipswich-town-sam-morsy-makes-unavailable-egypt-afcon/

Luongo likewise it seems for some kinda international duty..there was a rule at a time of refusing call ups and ineligibility but Idk if it holds here.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Make you right Dave.

https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/24014753.ipswich-town-sam-morsy-makes-unavailable-egypt-afcon/

Luongo likewise it seems for some kinda international duty..there was a rule at a time of refusing call ups and ineligibility but Idk if it holds here.

Luongo has retired from international footie…so that’s different.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Thanks. Morsy seemingly binning off international duty is a timely and lucky..they will lose Burgess for a bit though.

They are reportedly interested in Diallo, presumably on loan..that would be a blockbuster signing and short of McKenna getting some mates rates absolutely not cheap.

[Mr Popodopolous]

This is from an article about Onana but could apply here maybe.. 

"A player who has been called up by his association for one of its representative teams is, unless otherwise agreed by the relevant association, not entitled to play for the club with which he is registered during the period for which he has been released or should have been released… plus an additional period of five days.'"

TL:DR.

If Egypt insist then Morsy could maybe be banned for the period plus says..unless they give Ipswich special dispensation.

[Dan11]

45 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is from an article about Onana but could apply here maybe.. 

"A player who has been called up by his association for one of its representative teams is, unless otherwise agreed by the relevant association, not entitled to play for the club with which he is registered during the period for which he has been released or should have been released… plus an additional period of five days.'"

TL:DR.

If Egypt insist then Morsy could maybe be banned for the period plus says..unless they give Ipswich special dispensation.

I suspect the leak about him saying he’s not going to AFCON is a bit of a PR stunt for us fans. He’s only got 9 caps and only been in one squad in the two and a bit years he’s been here so doubt he’d have made the final cut anyway. Either way I doubt Egypt will lose sleep or kick off about him not being in the squad!

Hirst will be a big loss. We are fortunate this didn’t happen a month or two ago or we’d have been in bother. January is going to be our biggest transfer window in as long as I can remember!

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Dan11 said:

I suspect the leak about him saying he’s not going to AFCON is a bit of a PR stunt for us fans. He’s only got 9 caps and only been in one squad in the two and a bit years he’s been here so doubt he’d have made the final cut anyway. Either way I doubt Egypt will lose sleep or kick off about him not being in the squad!

Hirst will be a big loss. We are fortunate this didn’t happen a month or two ago or we’d have been in bother. January is going to be our biggest transfer window in as long as I can remember!

It will be interesting to see, still in a great position.

Diallo would be major, won't come cheap..Nixon said £3m for a afrkker on £15k per week, that could easily be extrapolated into say a Diallo loan cost permitting.

[Dan11]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It will be interesting to see, still in a great position.

Diallo would be major, won't come cheap..Nixon said £3m for a afrkker on £15k per week, that could easily be extrapolated into say a Diallo loan cost permitting.

We will be spending more than £3m this January, I’m certain of that. Talk down here is that Stansfield is being recalled from Birmingham and coming here (not sure if loan or permanent). Suspect there will be 2/3 more as well. Diallo would obviously be excellent if he’s fit and is well known to McKenna and the coaching team. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Dan11 said:

We will be spending more than £3m this January, I’m certain of that. Talk down here is that Stansfield is being recalled from Birmingham and coming here (not sure if loan or permanent). Suspect there will be 2/3 more as well. Diallo would obviously be excellent if he’s fit and is well known to McKenna and the coaching team. 

Oh yeah, the Nixon report was solely on a striker.. McKenna did quite rightly state the need to comply with P&S though.

That £39m plus allowables still is a thing.

[Davefevs]

Lois Diony was spotted at the Salthouse Harbour Hotel earlier today.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/46305/mckenna-we-know-the-owners-will-support-us-if-we-find-a-suitable-player

Sensible words by McKenna.