The Office (UK): Ipswich Town edition

[Dan11]

12 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'm asking this genuinely rather than having a dig but do you know where it leaves you financially if you don't go up? From the outside, it looks like you've invested quite heavily. Would key players need to leave to stay in line with FFP or would the squad likely be intact to compete again next season? 

I think Leif Davis would inevitably go. He's a Premier League full back in style and quality and will command a big fee. How we got him in L1 I have no idea. The biggest worry of course would be a PL club wanting McKenna which is inevitable at some point.

Financially we've really not invested that heavily at all. We built a squad in L1 under SCMP rules that could compete pretty well in the Championship. Highest fee we've paid under our new owners is £1.5m (Broadhead, Hirst, Taylor) - on 3/4 year contracts for FFP and players that have future resale value. I don't expect Moore is coming cheap in terms of loan fee/wages but that's a signing we had to make in our position. If he makes the kind of impact he did on Saturday then he will be worth every penny!

Edited February 6 by Dan11

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Dan11 said:

I know you guys don't like Ashton but I find the dislike for us a bit odd to be honest.

It’s for that reason alone.

 

8 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'm asking this genuinely rather than having a dig but do you know where it leaves you financially if you don't go up? From the outside, it looks like you've invested quite heavily. Would key players need to leave to stay in line with FFP or would the squad likely be intact to compete again next season? 

They’ll be alright.  They should have enough headroom.  Revenues will be very good, packed out PR, Champ tv money rather Lg1.

Although I do look forward to seeing their accounts for last season (22-23).  Their losses doubled from £6m (20-21) to £12m (21-22), so interested to see the “cost of promotion”.

Ashton’s claims of “net zero” were horseshit, but their fans bought it.

[LondonBristolian]

5 minutes ago, Dan11 said:

I think Leif Davis would inevitably go. He's a Premier League full back in style and quality and will command a big fee. How we got him in L1 I have no idea. The biggest worry of course would be a PL club wanting McKenna which is inevitable at some point.

Financially we've really not invested that heavily at all. We built a squad in L1 under SCMP rules that could compete pretty well in the Championship. Highest fee we've paid under our new owners is £1.5m (Broadhead, Hirst, Taylor) - on 3/4 year contracts for FFP and players that have future resale value. I don't expect Moore is coming cheap in terms of loan fee/wages but that's a signing we had to make in our position. If he makes the kind of impact he did on Saturday then he will be worth every penny!

Cheers - that's useful. FWIW, I honestly don't have any issue with Ipswich at all. What worries me a bit from your perspective is that Ashton's spending approach for us was very high risk (i.e. throw a lot of money at young players in the hope we unearth a gem or get promoted, which worked well at first but then the "gems" dried up and we had a lot of underwhelming players on our books) but obviously he could have learned a lesson. 

[RedRoss]

18 minutes ago, Dan11 said:

I'm sorry but that is drivel. We had as many errors playing out from the back in that game as we have all season. We are very good at it generally and we've scored far more goals than we've conceded by playing that way.

It was one of those halves on Saturday. We were sloppy and nothing went for us.

I know you guys don't like Ashton but I find the dislike for us a bit odd to be honest. Clubs that aren't in receipt of parachute payments should be united and happy to see another club defying the odds to compete! I certainly would be if the boot was on the other foot.

We've really missed Hirst since Boxing Day (and Morsy has been suspended for 3 games too). Moore is in and up and running now though. After West Brom on Saturday, we have a run of 9 games where you are the best team we play. So that's where we need to make hay. We've already played Leeds and Leicester twice. I back us to go close to the top 2. But if we finish in the top 6 it is an amazing season for us regardless. 

Not all care that much. I definitely don't it's all in the past for me. You are just another team in the league. There's alot of resentment on here for Ashton and rightly so but there's no denying he's done well with you. I think some fans are just hoping the wheels fall off to feel some sort of retribution. We used to get it with Barnsley fans when LJ was manager which I also thought was odd at the time.

[Dan11]

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

Cheers - that's useful. FWIW, I honestly don't have any issue with Ipswich at all. What worries me a bit from your perspective is that Ashton's spending approach for us was very high risk (i.e. throw a lot of money at young players in the hope we unearth a gem or get promoted, which worked well at first but then the "gems" dried up and we had a lot of underwhelming players on our books) but obviously he could have learned a lesson. 

To be honest though, for clubs like us that don't have parachute payments, what is the alternative strategy? The key is obviously your scouting/recruitment being absolutely on point but inevitably not every player you sign is going to be an Adam Webster. I think it is actually easier in some ways to play this strategy out at the lower end of the market (<£2m) than it is when you suddenly have £5m to spend on a player. The risk is far higher and your margin for error is a lot lower. I know they've picked up now, but I look at some of the business Coventry did in the summer and I guarantee they've made a couple of mistakes. Haji Wright £8m prime example.

[Davefevs]

[RedRoss]

4 minutes ago, Dan11 said:

To be honest though, for clubs like us that don't have parachute payments, what is the alternative strategy? The key is obviously your scouting/recruitment being absolutely on point but inevitably not every player you sign is going to be an Adam Webster. I think it is actually easier in some ways to play this strategy out at the lower end of the market (<£2m) than it is when you suddenly have £5m to spend on a player. The risk is far higher and your margin for error is a lot lower. I know they've picked up now, but I look at some of the business Coventry did in the summer and I guarantee they've made a couple of mistakes. Haji Wright £8m prime example.

A lot of posters on here wanted Ali Al Hamadi including me. I think he's a great pick up and will do we'll for you.

[Mr Popodopolous]

No issue with Ipswich, Mark Ashton however along with Lee Johnson and pisspoor oversight by the Lansdowns- well Steve was asleep at the wheel at times...Jon the less said the better.

[CyderInACan]

18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

well Steve was asleep at the wheel at times

There wasn't even a wheel! 

[LilRascal]

2 hours ago, Dan11 said:

I know you guys don't like Ashton but I find the dislike for us a bit odd to be honest.

 

I don't think there is any animosity or dislike towards Ipswich or your fans - it's purely Ashton. Think most admire your history - over achieving with Ramsey and Robson, winning proper trophies, and now we're envious of your current season (McKenna has done a phenomenal job with you) which reminds us of the 2007-2008 when we had just been promoted and almost got into the Prem. Does look a bit like Ashton is overspending and gambling everything to get there though - like he did with us. Hope for your sake it doesn't go tits up. But honestly, as a club we neither dislike or like Ipswich, as far as I know. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, LilRascal said:

 

I don't think there is any animosity or dislike towards Ipswich or your fans - it's purely Ashton. Think most admire your history - over achieving with Ramsey and Robson, winning proper trophies, and now we're envious of your current season (McKenna has done a phenomenal job with you) which reminds us of the 2007-2008 when we had just been promoted and almost got into the Prem. Does look a bit like Ashton is overspending and gambling everything to get there though - like he did with us. Hope for your sake it doesn't go tits up. But honestly, as a club we neither dislike or like Ipswich, as far as I know. 

 

I feel Ashton is on a tighter leash at Ipswich than he was here, but otherwise agreed.

[Natchfever]

32 minutes ago, LilRascal said:

 

I don't think there is any animosity or dislike towards Ipswich or your fans - it's purely Ashton. Think most admire your history - over achieving with Ramsey and Robson, winning proper trophies, and now we're envious of your current season (McKenna has done a phenomenal job with you) which reminds us of the 2007-2008 when we had just been promoted and almost got into the Prem. Does look a bit like Ashton is overspending and gambling everything to get there though - like he did with us. Hope for your sake it doesn't go tits up. But honestly, as a club we neither dislike or like Ipswich, as far as I know. 

 

My thoughts exactly.

Said previously that under Bobby Robson, they played a match v Soton I think to raise money when we were properly in the shit.

Good club, excellent history, its just about that *** Ashton.

[Sheltons Army]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

It’s for that reason alone.

 

You forgot ‘Churchman’ , Dave , or whatever the marsh dweller calls himself 

[luke_bristol]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

You forgot ‘Churchman’ , Dave , or whatever the marsh dweller calls himself 

Such a weird bloke, seems to think we hate Ashton because we didn’t get promoted to the EPL 

[GrahamC]

Think realistically that’s automatic promotion gone, but still battled their way to another point.

Southampton are now unbeaten in their last 22 games but were booed off at HT today because they were losing, entitled or what?

[Loosey Boy]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Think realistically that’s automatic promotion gone, but still battled their way to another point.

Southampton are now unbeaten in their last 22 games but were booed off at HT today because they were losing, entitled or what?

Exactly that @GrahamC - think they have a right to win every week!

Lets hope we stick to them on Tuesday night 

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Think realistically that’s automatic promotion gone, but still battled their way to another point.

Southampton are now unbeaten in their last 22 games but were booed off at HT today because they were losing, entitled or what?

Was surprised on commentary Ipswich 2-2 WBA was deemed a surprise result….for whom?

[GrahamC]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Was surprised on commentary Ipswich 2-2 WBA was deemed a surprise result….for whom?

I can only guess that with the Baggies being ahead in injury time they were expected to hold on?

 

Edited February 10 by GrahamC

[Lanterne Rouge]

52 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

Exactly that @GrahamC - think they have a right to win every week!

Lets hope we stick to them on Tuesday night 

Let`s hope today`s game has taken a lot out of them, mentally more than anything.

[cidercity1987]

https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/576421/david-burns-appears-to-have-deleted-his-twitter-account-now

What you been up to @djb6162?

 

[exAtyeoMax]

https://www.itfc.co.uk/news/2024/march/22/press-release-bright-path-sports/

 

[Highburnred]

£105,000,000 for 40% they better get promoted if they’re valued the club at more than £260 million 

[exAtyeoMax]

21 minutes ago, Highburnred said:

£105,000,000 for 40% they better get promoted if they’re valued the club at more than £260 million 

is that dodgy?

[Highburnred]

7 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

is that dodgy?

I don’t have a clue better ask @Mr Popodopolous

Edited March 22 by Highburnred
Name wrong

[Alessandro]

Phrased as investment “up to” - so presume that’s staggered over a period or even subject to clauses, promotion etc?

Either way, even if they don’t go up this season, that’s Ipswich propelled to a higher level of spending that we could never match. 

And another championship club getting serious investment - despite us advertising for it, doesn’t seem anyone is interested? Bit depressing. 

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Highburnred said:

£105,000,000 for 40% they better get promoted if they’re valued the club at more than £260 million 

Strikes me as more than a little bit suspicious . 
The ground isn't all that special , their training ground is over 20 years old . To add perspective ...

"The takeover of the Championship club (WBA) , worth a reported £60m, to acquire Guochuan Lai's 87.8 per cent majority shareholding has been approved by the EFL."

I believe WBA has a Cat 1 academy , Ipswich Cat 2. 
Ipswich's ground is bigger by 4k .

I don't get that WBA value can be £68m ish and Ipswich £262m . 

@Mr Popodopolous is this a little like Derby valuing their old ground at £80m ? 

[Bedred31]

And I’ve never really understood how buying a 40% share = investment. Presumably the purchase money goes primarily to whoever previously owned the 40%. Instead, the idea seems to be that if someone gives you £100m, then ‘you’ automatically become £100m more valuable, whereupon 40% more shares are magically created to represent this increase in value and given to the outfit who gifted the £100m. Which looks suspiciously like a fairly basic form of financial support. This is not an anti- Ipswich rant, as many clubs seem to do it, not least our own SL. If there’s one lesson from this, it’s that money always follows success, and that if SL really wants to realise his investment and get his money out, then starving the squad and driving down towards League 1 may not be the best commercial strategy.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Ipswich loss has gone up to £18m.

They publish their P&S Returns however but Related Party Preference Shares is an odd one. Doesn't appear on the P&S form unless that contributes to the equality £8m x 3 in any cycle.

Edited March 23 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Highburnred said:

I don’t have a clue better ask @Mr Popodopolous

Don't see how it makes any difference to P&S Regs. £39m plus Allowables set against £24m in equity ie the first £24m in any given 3 Year Period.

That aside it seems inordinately and oddly high.

[fgrsimon]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Don't see how it makes any difference to P&S Regs. £39m plus Allowables set against £24m in equity ie the first £24m in any given 3 Year Period.

That aside it seems inordinately and oddly high.

I agree don't think it affects FFP/PSR. It's just a case that if someone thinks that a 40% share in Ipswich is worth £110 million then that's their choice and their potential loss. I can think of a lot less risky options than investing in a football club!

[exAtyeoMax]

4 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

I agree don't think it affects FFP/PSR. It's just a case that if someone thinks that a 40% share in Ipswich is worth £110 million then that's their choice and their potential loss. I can think of a lot less risky options than investing in a football club!

My first thought was Donald Trump! Overestimating the value of an asset for some reason

[CodeRed]

12 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

If there’s one lesson from this, it’s that money always follows success, and that if SL really wants to realise his investment and get his money out, then starving the squad and driving down towards League 1 may not be the best commercial strategy.

Exactly, someone looks at Bristol City - they're going nowhere, poor leadership on and off the pitch.....let's throw our money in there ???

The quote from the new Ipswich investor was " we invest in people and the management team at Ipswich are doing a fantastic job"

Is someone investing £100M in Tinnion ??!

 

[Davefevs]

9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ipswich loss has gone up to £18m.

They publish their P&S Returns however but Related Party Preference Shares is an odd one. Doesn't appear on the P&S form unless that contributes to the equality £8m x 3 in any cycle.

The highlights (?) for me were:

• £18.2m loss which is bloody high in Lg1
• Grown revenue off the back of increasing crowds and commercial deals
• Costs growing exponentially (revenue up £8m but costs up £13.5m)
• Wages up by circa 50%
• £8m spent on transfer fees in Lg1 / book value £16m

Basically they won came second in Lg1 operating like a mid-table budget Championship side!  That sounds a bit churlish, it probably is, but anything other than promotion last season would be failure.  Hats off to them this season in taking that squad to the verge of another promotion.  They are going for it!

@Dan11

Not having a go at you or some of your more educated posters on TWTD, because you already knew that Ashton was talking horseshit with his “net neutral” claims, but I hope someone remembers that and asks him to square that off at your next fans forum.

I didn’t expect losses to be that big, I thought the revenue increases would probably cover most of the increased costs, so another £6m increase in losses is surprising.

Interesting to know internally whether this is a two season gamble or not?

[Dan11]

44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The highlights (?) for me were:

• £18.2m loss which is bloody high in Lg1
• Grown revenue off the back of increasing crowds and commercial deals
• Costs growing exponentially (revenue up £8m but costs up £13.5m)
• Wages up by circa 50%
• £8m spent on transfer fees in Lg1 / book value £16m

Basically they won came second in Lg1 operating like a mid-table budget Championship side!  That sounds a bit churlish, it probably is, but anything other than promotion last season would be failure.  Hats off to them this season in taking that squad to the verge of another promotion.  They are going for it!

@Dan11

Not having a go at you or some of your more educated posters on TWTD, because you already knew that Ashton was talking horseshit with his “net neutral” claims, but I hope someone remembers that and asks him to square that off at your next fans forum.

I didn’t expect losses to be that big, I thought the revenue increases would probably cover most of the increased costs, so another £6m increase in losses is surprising.

Interesting to know internally whether this is a two season gamble or not?

GC2020 have been very aggressive and willing to spend money since coming in. Costs falling outside FFP have risen from £3.3m in 2020/21 to £6.8m in 2022/23. They've really put money into every area of the club - youth development, community engagement, women's team and the playing squad. But it's all paid off because they've really mobilised and re-engaged the fan base - not many clubs could generate £21.7m revenue in L1, but they've squeezed every penny out of us. Every facet of the club has improved and you can visibly see it. They have big plans for the training ground this summer too. I think the £105m valuation for 40% of the club shows you how their investment has paid off! (even if I do think it is nuts at this stage). 

The FFP reconciliation is the most interesting part for me. £20.6m loss over the last 3 seasons with a measly £1.9m of it (thanks Marcus Evans) being for 2020/21. So on a rolling 3 year basis, that means we can lose up to £20.3m this season and be within the £39m limit. I'd expect revenue to well in excess of £30m this year and we've spent fairly sensibly with £4m on assets like Taylor (3 year deal), Al-Hamadi (4 year deal) and Hirst (4 year deal). Of course other playing costs will also have gone up but I'd expect us to be well within £20.3m and therefore in no desperate need to flog anyone before 30th June 2024. If we don't go up, I think we are all resigned to losing Davis, but we should be able to negotiate a better deal post 1st July. 

*Edit* - and your mid table Champ club in L1 is spot on. As we discussed before, we've really used the SCMP rules in L1 to our advantage to build a squad at that level that we felt could compete at this level too. 

Edited March 23 by Dan11

[Davefevs]

@Dan11 yep all makes sense.  Wrote on TWTD ages back that I didn’t see FFP being an issue.  Good to see a club transparent with the “FFP allowables” too.

The bit I’m intrigued by is the “upto £105m”…as @Alessandro says above that appears to be performance related, or else the words “upto” wouldn’t be used.  I reckon some form of “promotion” bonus, ie investing in a PL-bound club makes the price x, but if it gets to tye PL, then price y.  New investors aren’t risking an overvaluation, Ipswich not setting a stupid price.  All very “Dragons Den”!

@headhunter a “promotion dividend” - sell cheaper, but include a “bonus”…where did we hear that this week!

[Dan11]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

@Dan11 yep all makes sense.  Wrote on TWTD ages back that I didn’t see FFP being an issue.  Good to see a club transparent with the “FFP allowables” too.

The bit I’m intrigued by is the “upto £105m”…as @Alessandro says above that appears to be performance related, or else the words “upto” wouldn’t be used.  I reckon some form of “promotion” bonus, ie investing in a PL-bound club makes the price x, but if it gets to tye PL, then price y.  New investors aren’t risking an overvaluation, Ipswich not setting a stupid price.  All very “Dragons Den”!

@headhunter a “promotion dividend” - sell cheaper, but include a “bonus”…where did we hear that this week!

Yeah, I imagine you are right. There must be some contingencies in the deal. I could certainly think of less risky ways to spend £105m but hopefully for us it pays off for them!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Marcus Evans was a bit Mke Ashleyesque in his latter days (from the outside) in that his failure to spend anything of note left a bit of a golden legacy from an FFP perspective for a while at least for new owners/investors.

[W-S-M Seagull]

23 hours ago, Alessandro said:

Either way, even if they don’t go up this season, that’s Ipswich propelled to a higher level of spending that we could never match. 

Not really. They are still bound by ffp. 

[Alessandro]

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Not really. They are still bound by ffp. 

Of course - but gives them the funds to push FFP to the limit.

Look at us, we must have a nice buffer in our FFP, but if Lansdown uses the revenue from Scott and Semenyo, for example, to pay for wages and other running costs, instead of ploughing back into squad, that FFP buffer means nothing.

Ipswich can afford to spend what they earn, and Ashton will no doubt be maxing those revenue streams, all the while there is little jeopardy over the funds.

Can they not also use it for development, academy etc? Go cat 1 and use the funds to outgun other clubs in area for best youngsters etc etc. 

Edited March 23 by Alessandro

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Of course - but gives them the funds to push FFP to the limit.

Look at us, we must have a nice buffer in our FFP, but if Lansdown uses the revenue from Scott and Semenyo, for example, to pay for wages and other running costs, instead of ploughing back into squad, that FFP buffer means nothing.

Ipswich can afford to spend what they earn, and Ashton will no doubt be maxing those revenue streams, all the while there is little jeopardy over the funds.

Can they not also use it for development, academy etc? Go cat 1 and use the funds to outgun other clubs in area for best youngsters etc etc. 

Cat 1 takes some time, always wonder why we haven't gone for it.

Academy Expenditure of course exempt from FFP/P&S. (The item of Related Party Preference Shares is curious). Infrsdfure, Cat 1- Cash Flow it can all help to build matters yes.

We have by my reckoning £10m of unused headroom to this year and £15m, maybe £15-20m but closer to £15m than £20m probably.

We could do more Commercially too I'm sure. We do very well but resting on laurels we can't do that. I reckon US Owners or Investors would look to turbocharge it here.

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Cat 1 takes some time, always wonder why we haven't gone for it.

Academy Expenditure of course exempt from FFP/P&S. (The item of Related Party Preference Shares is curious). Infrsdfure, Cat 1- Cash Flow it can all help to build matters yes.

We have by my reckoning £10m of unused headroom to this year and £15m, maybe £15-20m but closer to £15m than £20m probably.

We could do more Commercially too I'm sure. We do very well but resting on laurels we can't do that. I reckon US Owners or Investors would look to turbocharge it here.

The answer was given at the latest fans forum.

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The answer was given at the latest fans forum.

I'll go back and re-read, thanks.

There must be some Tangible benefits to it.

Edited March 24 by Mr Popodopolous

[1960maaan]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'll go back and check, thanks.

There must be some Tangible benefits to it.

I think they said the extra cost would out weigh the benefits 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, 1960maaan said:

I think they said the extra cost would out weigh the benefits 

Isn't there some sort if Privilege for Cat 1 in terms of recruitment or an I getting mixed up with EPPP? I'll be honest I don't know enough about this element and we are doing quite fine without it but it seems like a Selling Point.

Quantuma seemed very keen to keep it during Derby administration (being able to when in that financial position really is curious but that's another issue).

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Isn't there some sort if Privilege for Cat 1 in terms of recruitment or an I getting mixed up with EPPP? I'll be honest I don't know enough about this element and we are doing quite fine without it but it seems like a Selling Point.

Quantuma seemed very keen to keep it during Derby administration (being able to when in that financial position really is curious but that's another issue).

I think there may be some perceived glory, but I'm sure they said that there wasn't a great deal extra to be gained . The costs moving it to Cat A look to be almost double . Loads more staff needed and more hours schooling the kids, though I think we wouldn't need the indoor pitch as the Rugby may qualify .  The compensation when leaving an academy is more as you go from 3 to 2 to 1 .
So it seems it's a balance , I saw an article where Watford wanted to drop from applying for Cat one , down to Cat 3 to save money, I think that was around 2014.

[Mr Popodopolous]

59 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I think there may be some perceived glory, but I'm sure they said that there wasn't a great deal extra to be gained . The costs moving it to Cat A look to be almost double . Loads more staff needed and more hours schooling the kids, though I think we wouldn't need the indoor pitch as the Rugby may qualify .  The compensation when leaving an academy is more as you go from 3 to 2 to 1 .
So it seems it's a balance , I saw an article where Watford wanted to drop from applying for Cat one , down to Cat 3 to save money, I think that was around 2014.

Thanks.

The way I see it, granted not an area I look into too much is that:

*FFP exempt.

*More attractive to prospective players, coaches etc.

*Possibly could help us under EPPP Rules.

*Maybe more attractive to prospective investors.

Granted if we are looking to be as self-reliant as possible then it is a nice to have but ideally it strikes me as having advantages for sure. Subject to willingness or ability of SL or the owner to push on with it and that isn't a criticism of him, just a fact.

[Dan11]

18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Marcus Evans was a bit Mke Ashleyesque in his latter days (from the outside) in that his failure to spend anything of note left a bit of a golden legacy from an FFP perspective for a while at least for new owners/investors.

Yeah that is fair.

The truth is that he bought us at a time when we were hovering around the play-offs and there wasn't an abundance of cash knocking about in the Championship. He came in with no plan and thought he could simply spend cash on players quickly, get us promoted and make a nice profit. Then he appointed Roy Keane - big mistake. From there onwards it was a complete car crash. Within a few years, the whole landscape of the division had changed and he was suddenly a relative pauper with no plan, his fingers burned and little appetite to invest in the club. The game became too rich for him. Hard to really criticise him for that but we were just in a period of stasis for several years where he deludedly hoped he could fluke a PL promotion with minimal investment (and McCarthy nearly managed it which was a hinderance in the end as it gave him further false hope) The state of the whole club was a disgrace by the end to be honest and we were pretty much on life support. 

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks.

The way I see it, granted not an area I look into too much is that:

*FFP exempt.

*More attractive to prospective players, coaches etc.

*Possibly could help us under EPPP Rules.

*Maybe more attractive to prospective investors.

Granted if we are looking to be as self-reliant as possible then it is a nice to have but ideally it strikes me as having advantages for sure. Subject to willingness or ability of SL or the owner to push on with it and that isn't a criticism of him, just a fact.

The other, probably biggest reason, is that they’d have to have an u21 squad of necessary quality to compete in PL2, and that would mean not being able to loan out, which the club feels develops players quickly.  It’s alright for the PL teams to have huge numbers of u21s, some go out on loan, some stay in u21s.

[Davefevs]

Nice thread here, similar to a Kieran Maguire summary:

@Dan11 the big question for me is how much growth is there available if you stay down?  Attendances maxed out pretty much, therefore match day revenues will be similarly at their max.

Commercial revenues can be grown, but by how much more?

Expectation that wages will rise, recruitment costs (fees, etc) will rise too.

[Dan11]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nice thread here, similar to a Kieran Maguire summary:

@Dan11 the big question for me is how much growth is there available if you stay down?  Attendances maxed out pretty much, therefore match day revenues will be similarly at their max.

Commercial revenues can be grown, but by how much more?

Expectation that wages will rise, recruitment costs (fees, etc) will rise too.

I think the football league distributions/TV deal is £5/6m higher in the Championship isn't it?

Beyond that we invested in our hospitality facilities this season and have further plans for this. Ashton has talked about being able use the stadium 365 days a year rather than just every other Saturday. They want to be in a position to have a couple of concerts on the pitch every summer. There is a longer term plan to rebuild the Cobbold stand with an increased capacity and new hospitality facilities too. But shortish term I suspect revenues are probably going to struggle to go much beyond £30m in this division. Like any team that doesn't get parachute payments, player trading is going to be important for us. Recruitment has been excellent since McKenna came in and we've managed to build value in the squad. If we don't go up, I see much of the same this summer - signings in the £1m-£2m bracket.

Edited March 25 by Dan11

[Davefevs]

Thanks Dan, all sensible stuff.

[Super]

Some day for them. Top with 7 to play.

[IAmNick]

23 minutes ago, Super said:

Some day for them. Top with 7 to play.

Amazing to think we were basically in that same positions 16 years ago (well, last time we were top was after game 38 I think but whatever).

I wouldn't actually care if they go up - the Ashton thing, yeah annoying, whatever. Good luck to them, hard to say they don't deserve it after their wobble and resurgence this season. Oh, and to see Leicester potentially fail would be worth it for me.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Amazing to think we were basically in that same positions 16 years ago (well, last time we were top was after game 38 I think but whatever).

I wouldn't actually care if they go up - the Ashton thing, yeah annoying, whatever. Good luck to them, hard to say they don't deserve it after their wobble and resurgence this season. Oh, and to see Leicester potentially fail would be worth it for me.

They went or could go so far beyond us in terms of points gained. Some insane numbers from the top 3 even top 4.

[IAmNick]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They went or could go so far beyond us in terms of points gained. Some insane numbers from the top 3 even top 4.

Oh absolutely mate. They're better than we were on I expect almost every measurable metric and deserving of their place. The top few are away from the pack.

It's just there can't be that many newly promoted teams top of the championship at this point, and it's bizarre to think we were one of them in the not too distant past.

[formerly known as ivan]

Let’s follow the Ipswich blueprint! Step one, recruit Mark Ashton…

Also, isn’t it time to change the title of the thread? Believe this was set up to mock Ipswich when they appointed Ashton. Fair to say the joke has long gone!

Edited March 29 by formerly known as ivan

[Dr Balls]

8 hours ago, Super said:

Some day for them. Top with 7 to play.

But even their most one-eyed fan would have to admit that they were lucky at Blackburn. For their goal the Blackburn goalie was really poor, and yes like us yesterday they should have had a penalty for shirt-pulling, but beyond that Blackburn were all over them and had the ball in the Ipswich goal 3 times, one of which with different officials would have stood as the offside against Szmodics was at least questionable as to whether or not he did obstruct the keeper’s view. Plus the Ipswich goalie nearly gifted Szmodics a goal but did even better than O’Leary against Vardy in making up for his mistake.

i still look at the Ipswich team and see some reasonable Championship players playing way beyond their expected level with form leading to increased confidence, but they would probably need an even bigger recruitment drive than Forest, courtesy of you know who, to stay up. Whereas Leeds and Leicester have better players, having been able to hold on to them via parachute payments, and therefore would be more likely to survive in the Premier League if they were promoted.

[LondonBristolian]

8 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Let’s follow the Ipswich blueprint! Step one, recruit Mark Ashton…

Also, isn’t it time to change the title of the thread? Believe this was set up to mock Ipswich when they appointed Ashton. Fair to say the joke has long gone!

To be honest, I set this thread up to share a David Brent-esque quote from Mark Ashton in an interview. I never thought for a minute it would last three years and get to 87 pages! 

[Dan11]

Thanks for beating Leicester for us 

[GrahamC]

9 hours ago, IAmNick said:

Amazing to think we were basically in that same positions 16 years ago (well, last time we were top was after game 38 I think but whatever).

I wouldn't actually care if they go up - the Ashton thing, yeah annoying, whatever. Good luck to them, hard to say they don't deserve it after their wobble and resurgence this season. Oh, and to see Leicester potentially fail would be worth it for me.

100%.

The other thing is if they didn’t have Ashton & his history with us, we would all be saying what an incredible achievement.

They really didn’t spend that big last summer, they have gone toe to toe all year with 3 sides who possess a ridiculous advantage over the others & at present are in pole position in what now looks two from three to go up automatically.

You can already hear the fans of the sides who get out of League One this season saying they’re looking to do an “Ipswich” next season, completely failing to understand this only happens around once every ten years.
 

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

100%.

The other thing is if they didn’t have Ashton & his history with us, we would all be saying what an incredible achievement.

They really didn’t spend that big last summer, they have gone toe to toe all year with 3 sides who possess a ridiculous advantage over the others & at present are in pole position in what now looks two from three to go up automatically.

You can already hear the fans of the sides who get out of League One this season saying they’re looking to do an “Ipswich” next season, completely failing to understand this only happens around once every ten years.
 

And in fairness, Ipswich fans told us they were going to do exactly what they’ve done in the summer and most of us - or certainly me, anyway - felt they were being arrogant and deluded.

Even with Ashton, I’d probably rather Ipswich made it than the three relegated teams going straight back up. Certainly I’d take an Ipswich promotion over another of the boring yo-yo clubs like West Brom or Norwich.

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

And in fairness, Ipswich fans told us they were going to do exactly what they’ve done in the summer and most of us - or certainly me, anyway - felt they were being arrogant and deluded.

Even with Ashton, I’d probably rather Ipswich made it than the three relegated teams going straight back up. Certainly I’d take an Ipswich promotion over another of the boring yo-yo clubs like West Brom or Norwich.

They truly won’t give a **** but this is the bit of me that doesn’t want them to go up.

I still think they’re a pretty arrogant lot, maybe not a couple who have posted on here, but for a side that bumped around in the third tier for 4 years lacking in any sort of humility.

Mind you, for a sense of entitlement it’s hard to beat the Leicester fans yesterday, giving their team pelters at the final whistle.

[LondonBristolian]

4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

They truly won’t give a **** but this is the bit of me that doesn’t want them to go up.

I still think they’re a pretty arrogant lot, maybe not a couple who have posted on here, but for a side that bumped around in the third tier for 4 years lacking in any sort of humility.

Mind you, for a sense of entitlement it’s hard to beat the Leicester fans yesterday, giving their team pelters at the final whistle.

I agree on the arrogance but I think it is true - and even more so - for the entire current top six plus a few other teams in the division like Boro and Sunderland. There is a large bunch of teams with a big section of fans who feel entitled to a place in the Premier League despite - Leicester aside - a long and undistinguished track record of doing absolutely nothing once they are up there.

Edited March 30 by LondonBristolian

[Dan11]

40 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

They truly won’t give a **** but this is the bit of me that doesn’t want them to go up.

I still think they’re a pretty arrogant lot, maybe not a couple who have posted on here, but for a side that bumped around in the third tier for 4 years lacking in any sort of humility.

Mind you, for a sense of entitlement it’s hard to beat the Leicester fans yesterday, giving their team pelters at the final whistle.

As a fan base we really aren't entitled at all. We've been crap for years and I think most of our fan base are just enjoying finally having our club back and being able to watch a team that we feel a huge connection with, playing top quality football. I'm fortunate enough to have (just about) seen the George Burley team that finished 5th in the Premier League but anyone under the age of about 27 has seen complete dross almost non-stop. 

I think most Ipswich fans expected us to be knocking about around the play off positions this season but we really have surpassed all expectations. This really is a special team managed by one of the best managers in the country right now.

[Bazooka Joe]

Don’t like any of the teams vying for promotion.

But I’d like Ipswich to miss out simply because of Ashton.

Yeh, it’s petty and personal.

Edited March 30 by Bazooka Joe

[Mr Popodopolous]

In respect of Ipswich, Mark Ashton aside I would say in the nicest possible way that there is an element of now or never there. Perfect storm.

That level won't be replicated next year if not promoted IMO. They'll still be alright but they definitely won't be matching and right now outdoing Leeds,  Leicester, Southampton.

Now this could be tempered by Norwich Parachute Payments running out if they stay down, some retrenchment needed there. Hull maybe having to consolidate financially a bit, the potential that Burnley, Luton and Sheffield United are absolutely less strong than if they went up, Leeds, Leicester and Southampton. WBA year 2 without Parachute Payments if they stay down etc.

They have been very good at avoiding many injuries to key players too, will that be replicated? Especially with some outfield 30 and above.

[cotswoldred2]

11 hours ago, IAmNick said:

Oh absolutely mate. They're better than we were on I expect almost every measurable metric and deserving of their place. The top few are away from the pack.

It's just there can't be that many newly promoted teams top of the championship at this point, and it's bizarre to think we were one of them in the not too distant past.

I don't see Ipswich as a million miles better than us, in fact they have had an extraordinary good fortune with lack of injuries thus far. We could have should have at least drew with them last time, IF they go up they will struggle to stay up a second season. What they do have is great support, they are not divided like us, one City club, and they seem to have belief in their set up, unlike us.

Of course perhaps their best signing was Ashton, that is the bitter pill we have to swallow, but whilst we (not me) pilloried them he just made them Prem ready, OTIB at it's very best.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

100%.

The other thing is if they didn’t have Ashton & his history with us, we would all be saying what an incredible achievement.

They really didn’t spend that big last summer, they have gone toe to toe all year with 3 sides who possess a ridiculous advantage over the others & at present are in pole position in what now looks two from three to go up automatically.

You can already hear the fans of the sides who get out of League One this season saying they’re looking to do an “Ipswich” next season, completely failing to understand this only happens around once every ten years.
 

What they did Graham was build a championship squad in Lg1.  Their recent accounts show that.  Basically a mid-table championship budget whilst in the tier below.  So they didn’t need to mad in the summer, bar promotion wage increases.

I misjudged how well they’d do though.  I guess if there is one silver lining it’s that one of the three relegated clubs will stay down.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Had a quick look at Ipswich Parent Company Accounts as valuation reminded me.

The Gamechanger Accounts take a lot of the same items and costs but...bit higher? Albeit Goodwill is excluded from P&S so maybe it all computes out.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Granted the 2022 ones perhaps not as that is 16 months but the 12 month comparison...

Not looked in depth but you can lop off £3,317,000 in Goodwill from the Gamechanger higher Loss in 2022-23. Perhaps Gamechanger for FFP is an irrelevant consideration Idk.

Edited April 6 by Mr Popodopolous