Better Red Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level. Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me. Not one of them is doing anything in the first team. It’s time we had a good look at the academy and maybe even follow the Brentford model and scrap it and just have a B Tram. Of the current crop the best we have is Seymenyo who can’t score for toffee. Edwards I like but no where near the first team. Then - Scott will never score a goal if he plays 20 games. Needs 2 year on loan in L1 then we will see. Bakinson no manger likes him due to work rate HNM again another who will never score a goal for the club O’Leary never will make the first team Bell - to light weight. Pearson - where did he go? The list goes on. Will any of them actually become a first team player for us? Before every jumps in. Think about we can not win a game in the last 12 months. We had to clear out so much crap and deadwood. They have all had some game time and none them are really what I would call a first team player (Scott won’t start Friday and won’t see him start again) It’s time to take a look at these kids and think why we only produce players for L1/2 standard. The days of Bryan,Booby and Kelly look like they are a long way off at the moment. I know this won’t be popular as everyone loves the kids but I just don’t see it. They are as much of the problem as the recruitment team we have. 1 2 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Rooney will never make it Sterling is rubbish only runs into trouble Rashford will never get into the team Why are we playing grealish, I mean no shin pads, means he'll never get stuck in Ffs 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finley_Smith10 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 We need quality signings to come in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfitInMyPocket Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 It might be time to admit that a lot of the senior players in this squad aren't good enough. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Red Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Monkeh said: Rooney will never make it Sterling is rubbish only runs into trouble Rashford will never get into the team Why are we playing grealish, I mean no shin pads, means he'll never get stuck in Ffs So you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Monkeh Posted August 14, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2021 Just now, Better Red said: So you agree? No, Remember people wanted to sell Reid for 300k because he will never be good enough Or wondering why Bryan is in the squad it must be because he's bristolian It's a stupid ******* post full stop, 26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Red Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 Just now, Monkeh said: No, Remember people wanted to sell Reid for 300k because he will never be good enough Or wondering why Bryan is in the squad it must be because he's bristolian It's a stupid ******* post full stop, But probably right..... For the record I thought bobby looked like a talent and someone who could play at a higher level. Also liked Bryan. Current crop at best a load of L1 players which might be helpful next year if we don’t sort out this mess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hustler Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Better Red said: I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level. Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me. Not one of them is doing anything in the first team. It’s time we had a good look at the academy and maybe even follow the Brentford model and scrap it and just have a B Tram. Of the current crop the best we have is Seymenyo who can’t score for toffee. Edwards I like but no where near the first team. Then - Scott will never score a goal if he plays 20 games. Needs 2 year on loan in L1 then we will see. Bakinson no manger likes him due to work rate HNM again another who will never score a goal for the club O’Leary never will make the first team Bell - to light weight. Pearson - where did he go? The list goes on. Will any of them actually become a first team player for us? Before every jumps in. Think about we can not win a game in the last 12 months. We had to clear out so much crap and deadwood. They have all had some game time and none them are really what I would call a first team player (Scott won’t start Friday and won’t see him start again) It’s time to take a look at these kids and think why we only produce players for L1/2 standard. The days of Bryan,Booby and Kelly look like they are a long way off at the moment. I know this won’t be popular as everyone loves the kids but I just don’t see it. They are as much of the problem as the recruitment team we have. From what I have seen, it’s not that they aren’t good enough, it’s that they simply lack the experience and guidance. Now, if some of the more senior pros stood up and started putting in more solid performances, getting results and leading by example, the younger players would have an opportunity to flourish. Unfortunately, they have been thrown into a team that has a losing mentality and soft under-belly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Personally I feel alright about out kids, as for once they are actually kids. They're 20 or under for the most part and looking decent - not fully fledged Championship players and maybe never will be, but that's fine by me. My issue is with the Vyner / Moore / O'Dowdas (examples, not saying I dislike them) of the squad who get treated like kids, but actually have a decent amount of experience and are well into their 20s. I'd rather keep and gamble on a Scott or Massengo for the next few years than one of those three. 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 15 minutes ago, Better Red said: I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level. Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me. Not one of them is doing anything in the first team. It’s time we had a good look at the academy and maybe even follow the Brentford model and scrap it and just have a B Tram. Of the current crop the best we have is Seymenyo who can’t score for toffee. Edwards I like but no where near the first team. Then - Scott will never score a goal if he plays 20 games. Needs 2 year on loan in L1 then we will see. Bakinson no manger likes him due to work rate HNM again another who will never score a goal for the club O’Leary never will make the first team Bell - to light weight. Pearson - where did he go? The list goes on. Will any of them actually become a first team player for us? Before every jumps in. Think about we can not win a game in the last 12 months. We had to clear out so much crap and deadwood. They have all had some game time and none them are really what I would call a first team player (Scott won’t start Friday and won’t see him start again) It’s time to take a look at these kids and think why we only produce players for L1/2 standard. The days of Bryan,Booby and Kelly look like they are a long way off at the moment. I know this won’t be popular as everyone loves the kids but I just don’t see it. They are as much of the problem as the recruitment team we have. I agreed with you a year ago and I agree with you now. None of them are currently good enough which begs the question is the academy a worthwhile drain on resources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 1 minute ago, frenchred said: I agreed with you a year ago and I agree with you now. None of them are currently good enough which begs the question is the academy a worthwhile drain on resources? How can it be a drain when it’s brought in about £30m into the club through player sales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 19 minutes ago, Better Red said: I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level. Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me. Not one of them is doing anything in the first team. It’s time we had a good look at the academy and maybe even follow the Brentford model and scrap it and just have a B Tram. Of the current crop the best we have is Seymenyo who can’t score for toffee. Edwards I like but no where near the first team. Then - Scott will never score a goal if he plays 20 games. Needs 2 year on loan in L1 then we will see. Bakinson no manger likes him due to work rate HNM again another who will never score a goal for the club O’Leary never will make the first team Bell - to light weight. Pearson - where did he go? The list goes on. Will any of them actually become a first team player for us? Before every jumps in. Think about we can not win a game in the last 12 months. We had to clear out so much crap and deadwood. They have all had some game time and none them are really what I would call a first team player (Scott won’t start Friday and won’t see him start again) It’s time to take a look at these kids and think why we only produce players for L1/2 standard. The days of Bryan,Booby and Kelly look like they are a long way off at the moment. I know this won’t be popular as everyone loves the kids but I just don’t see it. They are as much of the problem as the recruitment team we have. Bobby Reid was 24 and a half before he showed what he can really do. Bryan had a couple of loans out before he showed his quality. Players like Kelly only come around every 10 years or so usually. I think Scott is the next one with that potential. Now’s not the time to criticise the young players - it’s the seasoned pros who should be performing better. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: How can it be a drain when it’s brought in about £30m into the club through player sales? Probably cost us more than that over the time it's (Mal)functioned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Just now, frenchred said: Probably cost us more than that over the time it's (Mal)functioned I’ve actually no idea how much it costs to run. You saying it’s about £5m per year or so as it’s bought in £30m over the last 5-6 seasons I think? Thought it would have been less than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Bobby Reid was 24 and a half before he showed what he can really do. Bryan had a couple of loans out before he showed his quality. Players like Kelly only come around every 10 years or so usually. I think Scott is the next one with that potential. Now’s not the time to criticise the young players - it’s the seasoned pros who should be performing better. Unfortunately we live in ‘must have it now’ times. A lot of fans showing that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Can some of you not quote him / her…got them on ignore!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 I have no doubt at all that the OP is a troll on a fishing trip so I would be a fool to indulge him for more than two sentences. It is time to accept the kids are in fact kids and it is far too early to tell how their careers will pan out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: I’ve actually no idea how much it costs to run. You saying it’s about £5m per year or so as it’s bought in £30m over the last 5-6 seasons I think? Thought it would have been less than that. Believe it is between £2-3m as that is around the amount we offset in FFP for Academy costs. So it’s doing alright in my book. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobArnold10 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, IAmNick said: Personally I feel alright about out kids, as for once they are actually kids. They're 20 or under for the most part and looking decent - not fully fledged Championship players and maybe never will be, but that's fine by me. My issue is with the Vyner / Moore / O'Dowdas (examples, not saying I dislike them) of the squad who get treated like kids, but actually have a decent amount of experience and are well into their 20s. I'd rather keep and gamble on a Scott or Massengo for the next few years than one of those three. This is the point for me. Scott, Bell, Pearson, Conway have played less than 30 games between them and only a handful of starts. Bryan, Reid et al took a season or two to really kick on. On the other hand Moore, Vyner, COD have not kicked on despite the amount of games they’ve had now. I think a couple of them could use loans in the same way Bryan and Reid did, but I think Scott has enough to be in the squad, as does Janneh, they can make impacts either off the bench or as starters playing 60-70. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: Can some of you not quote him / her…got them on ignore!!! Good point. Setting them to ignore right now. Christ knows why people bite in detail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Believe it is between £2-3m as that is around the amount we offset in FFP for Academy costs. So it’s doing alright in my book. Frenchred is wrong?! I can’t quite believe it 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Frenchred is wrong?! I can’t quite believe it I haven't a Scooby how much it costs, I just think it's a waste of resource. Did Bryan come through the acadamy or was he pre acadamy? Genuine question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Taylor Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 33 minutes ago, Better Red said: I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level. Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me. Not one of them is doing anything in the first team. It’s time we had a good look at the academy and maybe even follow the Brentford model and scrap it and just have a B Tram. Of the current crop the best we have is Seymenyo who can’t score for toffee. Edwards I like but no where near the first team. Then - Scott will never score a goal if he plays 20 games. Needs 2 year on loan in L1 then we will see. Bakinson no manger likes him due to work rate HNM again another who will never score a goal for the club O’Leary never will make the first team Bell - to light weight. Pearson - where did he go? The list goes on. Will any of them actually become a first team player for us? Before every jumps in. Think about we can not win a game in the last 12 months. We had to clear out so much crap and deadwood. They have all had some game time and none them are really what I would call a first team player (Scott won’t start Friday and won’t see him start again) It’s time to take a look at these kids and think why we only produce players for L1/2 standard. The days of Bryan,Booby and Kelly look like they are a long way off at the moment. I know this won’t be popular as everyone loves the kids but I just don’t see it. They are as much of the problem as the recruitment team we have. I've never been a fan of under 23's as they spend too long playing meaningless games when they would better off dropping down the leagues accordingly to get first team football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjo Red Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 31 minutes ago, ProfitInMyPocket said: It might be time to admit that a lot of the senior players in this squad aren't good enough. Agreed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, RobArnold10 said: This is the point for me. Scott, Bell, Pearson, Conway have played less than 30 games between them and only a handful of starts. Bryan, Reid et al took a season or two to really kick on. On the other hand Moore, Vyner, COD have not kicked on despite the amount of games they’ve had now. I think a couple of them could use loans in the same way Bryan and Reid did, but I think Scott has enough to be in the squad, as does Janneh, they can make impacts either off the bench or as starters playing 60-70. I agree. When it comes to players: Cheap. Young. Ready. Pick 2 of the three - that's where we're at currently, as are most clubs unless you have ridiculous sums to spend. We have to accept that "cheap" for us is relatively fixed currently, so if you want young players they're almost certainly not going to be ready. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Red Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 16 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: Good point. Setting them to ignore right now. Christ knows why people bite in detail. Lets all be grown ups. I have ignored them why don’t you... Great let’s all ignore each other when we don’t agree... Just for the record I won’t be putting you on ignore or anyone else for that matter - why because I am a grown up and also I both welcome and enjoy other people’s opinions and debate. Go on give it a go.... Sorry if you can’t read this as you have me on ignore or have been sent to bed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 I think the OP may have been possessed by the spirit of the departed Ashton Yate. What needs to be understood is that the academy/youth system for years was not fit for purpose. You might see Matt Bryant, Aaron Brown or Joe Bryan come through but it was at best 1 player a year making it to not just our first team, but league football generally. And that was when we were a lower level and there was more chance to get through as there were less overseas players. Where we are now is we’re getting rid of players like Nurse, who move to league one. That says we’re bringing through good players. And it’s only just getting to that point, because the academy has developed. So we have Scott, Conway, Towler, Bell etc (Massengo and Bakinson were bought as non academy players). And behind that, we have Low, Henry, Benarous, Francois. Not all will make it - it’s the fifth hardest league in the world FFS. But right now, we have players with chances. And to make this comment after two games when most of the kids haven’t been playing is a touch bizarre. 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Why have we not produced 6 or 7 17 years olds who are immediately ready for Championship football? It's crazy. Interesting OP forgot to mention Janneh who is currently our top goal scorer this season, or Conway who scored last season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyez Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Bizarre post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 I try to fairly respectful on OTIB to all posters but we have some effin belters on here tonight. 8 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Alligator Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 It seems to me that if our youngsters, along with our experienced players, Manager, Chairman and owner, not to mention the tea lady, the cat and of course many of us supporters had a better grasp of the nuances of FFP, then everything would be far more wholesome at BCFC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Red Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 TM, Bakinson and HNM all brought in for what maybe 4m - 7m difficult to say. Gone through our youth system all be it later on and how many started this season - None Nurse - Sold Moreton - Trying to off load Bell/Conway - will prob go out on loan Scott - Will struggle to make the bench after next 3 games. Pring - Can’t get a game and JD is not firing at the moment so never likely to play unless JD injured again. Jenah - will prob go out on loan if we get a striker in. Person - not sure what happened to him again not good enough. O’Leary never make a championship keeper always be no 2 - L1 at best. If I am so wrong or wide if the mark where are they ? I did say it won’t be popular it feed up hearing about all these great kids. Maybe at L1 but not the Championship that’s for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Better Red said: Lets all be grown ups. I have ignored them why don’t you... Great let’s all ignore each other when we don’t agree... Just for the record I won’t be putting you on ignore or anyone else for that matter - why because I am a grown up and also I both welcome and enjoy other people’s opinions and debate. Go on give it a go.... Sorry if you can’t read this as you have me on ignore or have been sent to bed... I'll happily respect anyone stating an honest opinion. But let's not pretend for a moment that you are. Nobody is daft enough to believe that young players do not improve. You've stated something you very clearly don't believe - and nobody can honestly believe - to seek a bit of attention. Edited August 14, 2021 by LondonBristolian 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, Better Red said: TM, Bakinson and HNM all brought in for what maybe 4m - 7m difficult to say. Gone through our youth system all be it later on and how many started this season - None Nurse - Sold Moreton - Trying to off load Bell/Conway - will prob go out on loan Scott - Will struggle to make the bench after next 3 games. Pring - Can’t get a game and JD is not firing at the moment so never likely to play unless JD injured again. Jenah - will prob go out on loan if we get a striker in. Person - not sure what happened to him again not good enough. O’Leary never make a championship keeper always be no 2 - L1 at best. If I am so wrong or wide if the mark where are they ? I did say it won’t be popular it feed up hearing about all these great kids. Maybe at L1 but not the Championship that’s for sure. Mate. Have a word with yourself. In terms of Moore, Massengo, Bakinson they are not academy players. Massengo has been in the first team squad since he signed, and was injured pre season hence no involvement - you may recall last year NP playing and praising him, and HNM being one of our one bright spots. As for the rest Scott - played very well first two games and only 18. If he does go out on loan eventually that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean he’s not making it. Do me a favour - show me how many 18 year olds are playing Championship football regularly. You can’t. You’re trying to prove your point by picking on one who is!! O’Leary - He’s played at this level for a stretch. He’s played exceptionally well at the level down. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but one of our best players is our GK and we can’t play two. Pearson (it’s Pearson not person) - Involved in pre season. Is he ahead of Weimann currently which is what he’s going for? No. Should he be ahead of an established footballer at this level who we desperately missed last season? No. Does that make him a bad player? No. Bell/Conway/Jannah - see Pearson You appear to think that if someone’s not tearing up the league at 18 they are never going to make it. While simultaneously thinking the one 18 year old who is playing well at this level isn’t going to make it. So, absolutely no reason to keep on 18 year olds who may need loans at lower levels in your opinion. Here’s a few names for you: Ben White - Loaned to Newport in L2 at age 18 Jack Grealish- Loaned to Notts County in L1 at age 18 Harvey Barnes - Loaned to MK Dons in L1 at age 18 All played for England in the last 12 months. But as they were only ready for L1 or below at Bell, Pearsons, Scott’s and Conways age I assume Brighton, Villa and Leicester should have let them go. You’re either a troll or a moron. 2 1 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrascal2 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Better Red said: I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level. Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me. Not one of them is doing anything in the first team. It’s time we had a good look at the academy and maybe even follow the Brentford model and scrap it and just have a B Tram. Of the current crop the best we have is Seymenyo who can’t score for toffee. Edwards I like but no where near the first team. Then - Scott will never score a goal if he plays 20 games. Needs 2 year on loan in L1 then we will see. Bakinson no manger likes him due to work rate HNM again another who will never score a goal for the club O’Leary never will make the first team Bell - to light weight. Pearson - where did he go? The list goes on. Will any of them actually become a first team player for us? Before every jumps in. Think about we can not win a game in the last 12 months. We had to clear out so much crap and deadwood. They have all had some game time and none them are really what I would call a first team player (Scott won’t start Friday and won’t see him start again) It’s time to take a look at these kids and think why we only produce players for L1/2 standard. The days of Bryan,Booby and Kelly look like they are a long way off at the moment. I know this won’t be popular as everyone loves the kids but I just don’t see it. They are as much of the problem as the recruitment team we have. Well the lack of an academy has certainly not held back Brentford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: Mate. Have a word with yourself. In terms of Moore, Massengo, Bakinson they are not academy players. Massengo has been in the first team squad since he signed, and was injured pre season hence no involvement - you may recall last year NP playing and praising him, and HNM being one of our one bright spots. As for the rest Scott - played very well first two games and only 18. If he does go out on loan eventually that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean he’s not making it. Do me a favour - show me how many 18 year olds are playing Championship football regularly. You can’t. You’re trying to prove your point by picking on one who is!! O’Leary - He’s played at this level for a stretch. He’s played exceptionally well at the level down. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but one of our best players is our GK and we can’t play two. Pearson (it’s Pearson not person) - Involved in pre season. Is he ahead of Weimann currently which is what he’s going for? No. Should he be ahead of an established footballer at this level who we desperately missed last season? No. Does that make him a bad player? No. Bell/Conway/Jannah - see Pearson You appear to think that if someone’s not tearing up the league at 18 they are never going to make it. While simultaneously thinking the one 18 year old who is playing well at this level isn’t going to make it. So, absolutely no reason to keep on 18 year olds who may need loans at lower levels in your opinion. Here’s a few names for you: Ben White - Loaned to Newport in L2 at age 18 Jack Grealish- Loaned to Notts County in L1 at age 18 Harvey Barnes - Loaned to MK Dons in L1 at age 18 All played for England in the last 12 months. But as they were only ready for L1 or below at Bell, Pearsons, Scott’s and Conways age I assume Brighton, Villa and Leicester should have let them go. You’re either a troll or a moron. Fair play that you even bothered to reason with him / her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: I try to fairly respectful on OTIB to all posters but we have some effin belters on here tonight. Most of us realise that the long winless run is poor, but also that so far this season we have been 30 seconds from a home win & lost by the odd goal today. Hardly a crisis. We could badly do with a win this week but most realise Pearson has limited funds & a tough job on. I feel I could be posting this every week in response to certain posters at present. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 @Silvio Dante Alex Scott is actually still 17 for another week yet.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 1 minute ago, GrahamC said: Most of us realise that the long winless run is poor, but also that so far this season we have been 30 seconds from a home win & lost by the odd goal today. Hardly a crisis. We could badly do with a win this week but most realise Pearson has limited funds & a tough job on. I feel I could be posting this every week in response to certain posters at present. If I miss Geoff’s post-match stuff, I quite often listen back on BBC Sounds app…..for my own sanity should I listen to it? Was it the usual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Just now, Davefevs said: If I miss Geoff’s post-match stuff, I quite often listen back on BBC Sounds app…..for my own sanity should I listen to it? Was it the usual? In all honesty as it was my birthday today I haven’t listened to anything regarding the game, I just watched the goals on my phone, so can’t tell you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, GrahamC said: @Silvio Dante Alex Scott is actually still 17 for another week yet.. My bad. I just don’t like having to edit posts in a weeks time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Chappers Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 So do I take it that a strategy of ditching the Academy and buying in journeymen is proposed? The only way we can afford to challenge consistently is by player development, which requires a degree of patience, especially after a number of very poor purchases and Covid, giving us zero income, and making it harder to shift players off the wage bill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 12 hours ago, Better Red said: But probably right..... For the record I thought bobby looked like a talent and someone who could play at a higher level. Also liked Bryan. Current crop at best a load of L1 players which might be helpful next year if we don’t sort out this mess. Alex Scott will be a Premier League player within 3 years - IMO. Not sure you can be fully aware of the standard of player currently in the BFC youth system. Look how many are representing their countries at youth level. Brentford is a totally different situation to us, they were losing all of their best academy players to other London clubs due to proximity. Therefore not worth running an academy to develop players for other teams. We on the other hand have less competition in a far larger geographical area. South Wales - Swindon and Cheltenham - Devon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Always said, invest in scouting and player analysis. Put the remainder of the £xxxxx that it costs to run the Academy into transfer fees for HUNGRY, young, talented players from the lower leagues who are out and out WINNERS. If 1 in 10 are successes, that ‘hit rate’ far exceeds that of our Academy. I fully ‘get’ the idea of the Academy, but we just aren’t delivering as AshtonYate and I said decade or so ago. Could things be changing? Possibly - and more optimistic than in the past - but, as always, braced for the ‘always tomorrow’ scenario. Maybe the DNA that runs through the Club is just all wrong, too soft, too accepting of the mediocre which is why it is best to import from elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Red Posted August 15, 2021 Author Share Posted August 15, 2021 12 hours ago, Silvio Dante said: Mate. Have a word with yourself. In terms of Moore, Massengo, Bakinson they are not academy players. Massengo has been in the first team squad since he signed, and was injured pre season hence no involvement - you may recall last year NP playing and praising him, and HNM being one of our one bright spots. As for the rest Scott - played very well first two games and only 18. If he does go out on loan eventually that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean he’s not making it. Do me a favour - show me how many 18 year olds are playing Championship football regularly. You can’t. You’re trying to prove your point by picking on one who is!! O’Leary - He’s played at this level for a stretch. He’s played exceptionally well at the level down. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but one of our best players is our GK and we can’t play two. Pearson (it’s Pearson not person) - Involved in pre season. Is he ahead of Weimann currently which is what he’s going for? No. Should he be ahead of an established footballer at this level who we desperately missed last season? No. Does that make him a bad player? No. Bell/Conway/Jannah - see Pearson You appear to think that if someone’s not tearing up the league at 18 they are never going to make it. While simultaneously thinking the one 18 year old who is playing well at this level isn’t going to make it. So, absolutely no reason to keep on 18 year olds who may need loans at lower levels in your opinion. Here’s a few names for you: Ben White - Loaned to Newport in L2 at age 18 Jack Grealish- Loaned to Notts County in L1 at age 18 Harvey Barnes - Loaned to MK Dons in L1 at age 18 All played for England in the last 12 months. But as they were only ready for L1 or below at Bell, Pearsons, Scott’s and Conways age I assume Brighton, Villa and Leicester should have let them go. You’re either a troll or a moron. Vyner is 24 so there is a gap of say 5 years where we have produced 1 player - Kelly. So that’s a good return for say 20m ? Let’s just look at the facts not your optimistic view of the future. Scott will play in the Prem - Based on what? I have watched him twice and again the hype vs the reality- Let’s see if he is in the starting line up Friday - I will say now he want. He is only playing because we are so poor at the moment. We are bigging up these kids up before they even look like getting into a bottom three Championship club. Why can’t they get in ? - simple they ain’t good enough. it’s not just an opinion it’s largely based on facts. Maybe I am just able to separate optimism from reality. Maybe I am just better at understanding the game then you Possibly it’s about our level of Intelligence. Either way not a troll or a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 15 hours ago, Finley_Smith10 said: We need quality signings to come in You do realise that’s not happening don’t you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 15 hours ago, Better Red said: But probably right..... For the record I thought bobby looked like a talent and someone who could play at a higher level. Also liked Bryan. Current crop at best a load of L1 players which might be helpful next year if we don’t sort out this mess. When did you first think Bobby looked like he could play at a higher level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 (edited) Seems an overreaction by the OP but anyway. Not good enough or not ready? Big difference between the two. Bakinson- Still developing, added some goals last season. Certainly fine in the squad. Massengo- He's not really a goal scoring midfielder but again fine in squad. O'Leary- Reliable number 2. Pring- Backup LB but not all that much gametime last season due to injury IIRC. Semenyo- Don't just judge on goals- assists, energy and versatility are other positives. Quite like what I've seen from Scott to date. A lot of the other younger players do need good development loans though IMO. Question how ready some are for the level and the intensity of a Championship season. Bell, Pearson, Towler etc- Janneh or does his double vs Forest Green keep him in situ for the foreseeable. Edited August 15, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Alligator Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Seems an overreaction by the OP but anyway. Not good enough or not ready? Big difference between the two. Bakinson- Still developing, added some goals last season. Certainly fine in the squad. Massengo- He's not really a goal scoring midfielder but again fine in squad. O'Leary- Reliable number 2. Semenyo- Don't just judge on goals- assists, energy and versatility are other positives. Quite like what I've seen from Scott to date. A lot of the other younger players do need good development loans though IMO. Question how ready some are for the level and the intensity of a Championship season. Bell, Pearson, Towler etc- Janneh or does his double vs Forest Green keep him in situ for the foreseeable. I'd like to see more of Janneh and Bell this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 15 hours ago, Better Red said: I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level. Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me. Always hate posts that start off as self indulgent as "I said last (year, week, month)", where the poster seems to be trying to say look at me, I'm so clever, my sage like qualities have been proven correct. Forgets to mention all the sh1t posts that have been way off the mark! FWIW, think you are way off the mark now and at the moment, one of the things we have is some excellent youngsters, who may push on, assuming people like you are not quick to get on there backs after each miss placed pass or poor game. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said: Always hate posts that start off as self indulgent as "I said last (year, week, month)", where the poster seems to be trying to say look at me, I'm so clever, my sage like qualities have been proven correct. Forgets to mention all the sh1t posts that have been way off the mark! FWIW, think you are way off the mark now and at the moment, one of the things we have is some excellent youngsters, who may push on, assuming people like you are not quick to get on there backs after each miss placed pass or poor game. Like the gambler with the big win, but never mentions all the losing bets and that he’s still out of pocket overall. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 22 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said: Always hate posts that start off as self indulgent as "I said last (year, week, month)", where the poster seems to be trying to say look at me, I'm so clever, my sage like qualities have been proven correct. Forgets to mention all the sh1t posts that have been way off the mark! FWIW, think you are way off the mark now and at the moment, one of the things we have is some excellent youngsters, who may push on, assuming people like you are not quick to get on there backs after each miss placed pass or poor game. No it was more I said this 10+ years ago and was shot down in flames as AshtonYate was and now it is accepted by most the Academy then on reflection wasn’t very good. Those who now say ‘but, but it is now’ well, there remain still some sceptics. I hope I’m wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big dosser Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 well how sad to be slating are young players after 3 games of the new season. I wonder how many man u fans were saying the same thing at the start of sir alex career. Anyone who has played or managed football will know young players will only get better with age and the main thing they need is %100 backing and support from us fans. Give them a chance and a good run of games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Better Red said: Vyner is 24 so there is a gap of say 5 years where we have produced 1 player - Kelly. So that’s a good return for say 20m ? Let’s just look at the facts not your optimistic view of the future. Scott will play in the Prem - Based on what? I have watched him twice and again the hype vs the reality- Let’s see if he is in the starting line up Friday - I will say now he want. He is only playing because we are so poor at the moment. We are bigging up these kids up before they even look like getting into a bottom three Championship club. Why can’t they get in ? - simple they ain’t good enough. it’s not just an opinion it’s largely based on facts. Maybe I am just able to separate optimism from reality. Maybe I am just better at understanding the game then you Possibly it’s about our level of Intelligence. Either way not a troll or a moron. Just a small tip. If you’re claiming to be more intelligent than the person you’re responding to, it may be appropriate to respond to what they actually said. I didn’t say Scott would play in the prem, I said he was an 18 year old (ok 17) playing in the championship. If you’re claiming to be intelligent, you might also realise the phrase is “no he won’t” not “now he want”. If you’re claiming to be more intelligent, you might want to remember that in the last five years we’ve produced more than one league footballer from the academy. If you’re claiming to be intelligent, you might want to look up the definition of opinion vs facts. You’re expressing an opinion, not a fact despite what you say. Actually, If you’re claiming to be intelligent, the best thing for you to do might be to stop digging. Because everything you’ve written suggests the opposite. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tookster Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Don't underestimate the value of picking up a win. The team needs confidence and importantly our continued support. We have come close this season. Fingers crossed we can get a win on Friday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 State of this thread if there’s one area of the club to not criticise atm it’s the academy and developing young players. The academy is finally seeing the benefit of changes made several years ago now players are coming through to have fully benefitted from these changes. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBB Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 We wouldn’t have gotten 11 players on the pitch, without our academy last season. Shows how spoilt we’ve become when we’ve had multiple academy players at L1 & L2 clubs on loan and we still criticise them, when 10-15 years ago we struggled to provide even 1 or 2 for our own team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 18 hours ago, Better Red said: I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level. Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me. Not one of them is doing anything in the first team. It’s time we had a good look at the academy and maybe even follow the Brentford model and scrap it and just have a B Tram. Of the current crop the best we have is Seymenyo who can’t score for toffee. Edwards I like but no where near the first team. Then - Scott will never score a goal if he plays 20 games. Needs 2 year on loan in L1 then we will see. Bakinson no manger likes him due to work rate HNM again another who will never score a goal for the club O’Leary never will make the first team Bell - to light weight. Pearson - where did he go? The list goes on. Will any of them actually become a first team player for us? Before every jumps in. Think about we can not win a game in the last 12 months. We had to clear out so much crap and deadwood. They have all had some game time and none them are really what I would call a first team player (Scott won’t start Friday and won’t see him start again) It’s time to take a look at these kids and think why we only produce players for L1/2 standard. The days of Bryan,Booby and Kelly look like they are a long way off at the moment. I know this won’t be popular as everyone loves the kids but I just don’t see it. They are as much of the problem as the recruitment team we have. Go and have a lie down. The person who used the term term "effin belters" in their post to describe the stream of over reactionary posts on here was being far too kind imo.............. I'll be honest, I think you are nothing more and nothing less than a troll given the content of this and previous posts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj77 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 On 14/08/2021 at 20:28, Better Red said: But probably right..... For the record I thought bobby looked like a talent and someone who could play at a higher level. Also liked Bryan. Current crop at best a load of L1 players which might be helpful next year if we don’t sort out this mess. I only seen Scott once or twice but I think he looks like he's going to be one hell of a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReds Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 On 14/08/2021 at 20:16, Better Red said: I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level. Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me. Not one of them is doing anything in the first team. It’s time we had a good look at the academy and maybe even follow the Brentford model and scrap it and just have a B Tram. Of the current crop the best we have is Seymenyo who can’t score for toffee. Edwards I like but no where near the first team. Then - Scott will never score a goal if he plays 20 games. Needs 2 year on loan in L1 then we will see. Bakinson no manger likes him due to work rate HNM again another who will never score a goal for the club O’Leary never will make the first team Bell - to light weight. Pearson - where did he go? The list goes on. Will any of them actually become a first team player for us? Before every jumps in. Think about we can not win a game in the last 12 months. We had to clear out so much crap and deadwood. They have all had some game time and none them are really what I would call a first team player (Scott won’t start Friday and won’t see him start again) It’s time to take a look at these kids and think why we only produce players for L1/2 standard. The days of Bryan,Booby and Kelly look like they are a long way off at the moment. I know this won’t be popular as everyone loves the kids but I just don’t see it. They are as much of the problem as the recruitment team we have. Semenyo - can't score Scott - will never score (and we won't see him start again) O'Leary will never make the first team I'm guessing you never mentioned Pring & Benarous, because they will never make it....... Bit sad of me bringing up old posts, but just for some clarity, what with you being Mr Right..... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWSM Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 You can't win anything with kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 Talk about posts that aged like milk. Scott, Massengo, O’Leary, Semenyo all name checked. All having amazing seasons (well, O’Leary has only played a little but done well). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, TheReds said: Semenyo - can't score Scott - will never score (and we won't see him start again) O'Leary will never make the first team I'm guessing you never mentioned Pring & Benarous, because they will never make it....... Bit sad of me bringing up old posts, but just for some clarity, what with you being Mr Right..... That’s why I have him / her on ignore. There are a lot of posters on OTIB you can disagree with, and have a really good debate with, still disagree with, but appreciate their standpoint. The post on the previous page sums it up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bas's perfect hattrick Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, TheReds said: Semenyo - can't score Scott - will never score (and we won't see him start again) O'Leary will never make the first team I'm guessing you never mentioned Pring & Benarous, because they will never make it....... Bit sad of me bringing up old posts, but just for some clarity, what with you being Mr Right..... Pring is the player I'd pick out. Strong, takes responsibility and good positional sense. Maybe Scott and Semenyo are more naturally talented, but Pring looks the more comfortable Championship standard at this point IMO 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 13 minutes ago, Davefevs said: That’s why I have him / her on ignore. There are a lot of posters on OTIB you can disagree with, and have a really good debate with, still disagree with, but appreciate their standpoint. The post on the previous page sums it up. Good advice must do the same 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReds Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 20 minutes ago, Davefevs said: That’s why I have him / her on ignore. There are a lot of posters on OTIB you can disagree with, and have a really good debate with, still disagree with, but appreciate their standpoint. The post on the previous page sums it up. That's the issue, it isn't simply an opinion and then a debate, which is how it should be, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 These youngsters have been a revelation this season. So good to see them play. Shame George Tanner is injured, thought he was doing well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiesaffer Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 This is one of the reasons it’s a 3 year plan, IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Red Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 On 14/08/2021 at 22:06, Better Red said: TM, Bakinson and HNM all brought in for what maybe 4m - 7m difficult to say. Gone through our youth system all be it later on and how many started this season - None Nurse - Sold Moreton - Trying to off load Bell/Conway - will prob go out on loan Scott - Will struggle to make the bench after next 3 games. Pring - Can’t get a game and JD is not firing at the moment so never likely to play unless JD injured again. Jenah - will prob go out on loan if we get a striker in. Person - not sure what happened to him again not good enough. O’Leary never make a championship keeper always be no 2 - L1 at best. If I am so wrong or wide if the mark where are they ? I did say it won’t be popular it feed up hearing about all these great kids. Maybe at L1 but not the Championship that’s for sure. Ok - Let’s go through it. Bakinson - Right I think we all agree Moreton - Right Bell - Right Conway - Right Pearson - Right Jenah - Right Also add Towler - Right Also add Britton - Right Scott - Wrong - Good player like him good touch balance ‘ but’ needs to find his best position or could slip out the team. Pring - Wrong - Good Player can play at this level -See my Post have we found out left back. Max - Still not sure (likely Right) I think will end up in L1 Not sure it was that I was way of the mark. Thanks for digging out. If it was to show I get more right than wrong - Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHienz Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, Better Red said: Ok - Let’s go through it. Bakinson - Right I think we all agree Moreton - Right Bell - Right Conway - Right Pearson - Right Jenah - Right Also add Towler - Right Also add Britton - Right Scott - Wrong - Good player like him good touch balance ‘ but’ needs to find his best position or could slip out the team. Pring - Wrong - Good Player can play at this level -See my Post have we found out left back. Max - Still not sure (likely Right) I think will end up in L1 Not sure it was that I was way of the mark. Thanks for digging out. If it was to show I get more right than wrong - Thanks No team which isnt going bust has 10 youth players in the line up! The fact we have 3 regularly playing with two in and around the team on match days completely shows your point to be wrong. Attention seeking again. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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