Mr Popodopolous Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Embargo plus Business Plan I assume. Hopefully it'll be 9 + 3 and not 6 + 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 To also add, would it not be better given that they've signed their six, and they currently have injury issues to have the deduction ad business plan formally ratified and announced before permitting the short term addition of Carroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Davefevs said: £8.5k per week, otherwise known as £85k per game in Carroll’s case Thats £850K per goal !!!! (Not including the hat trick he will get v us) Edited November 15, 2021 by Maltshoveller 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_eastender Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Now that Derby have been dealt with, hopefully EFL will turn their attention to punishing Reading. The aforementioned 9+3 points deduction would take them 6 points below us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Taylor Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 On 15/11/2021 at 17:40, Banjo Red said: Con job another one cooking the books. There are other clubs then 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjo Red Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 34 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said: There are other clubs then Derby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Taylor Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Banjo Red said: Derby I couldn't remember if Sheffield Wednesday were being investigated as well Edited November 16, 2021 by Shaun Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loco Rojo Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 1 hour ago, old_eastender said: Now that Derby have been dealt with, hopefully EFL will turn their attention to punishing Reading. The aforementioned 9+3 points deduction would take them 6 points below us. Unfortunately not enough to make me feel safer about our season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjo Red Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 3 hours ago, Shaun Taylor said: I couldn't remember if Sheffield Wednesday were being investigated as well Maybe from last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Taylor Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 12 hours ago, Banjo Red said: Maybe from last season. Cheers, I do remember reading about it a while back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, old_eastender said: Now that Derby have been dealt with, hopefully EFL will turn their attention to punishing Reading. The aforementioned 9+3 points deduction would take them 6 points below us. That will keep them below us until at least December. Edit: scratch that, 9+3 is 12 and they’re 3 points ahead of us so they’d be 9 points below us? Edited November 17, 2021 by Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said: That will keep them below us until at least December. Edit: scratch that, 9+3 is 12 and they’re 3 points ahead of us so they’d be 9 points below us? The +3 are suspended. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Musicworks Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 According to the report in the Mail today, Reading have agreed a 6 point deduction with another 6 suspended. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 26 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said: According to the report in the Mail today, Reading have agreed a 6 point deduction with another 6 suspended. If true, they've played a blinder. Not that I thought they'd finish below us with a full 12 point deduction! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 6 + 6 is a bit of a strange one. Doesn't seem in line with the likely breach. We'll have to see the full detail when released if indeed this is the number, but wonder if part or all of the suspended 6 is contingent on the January window, ie sales/departures to avoid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 55 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: 6 + 6 is a bit of a strange one. Doesn't seem in line with the likely breach. We'll have to see the full detail when released if indeed this is the number, but wonder if part or all of the suspended 6 is contingent on the January window, ie sales/departures to avoid. Yes, will be very interesting to see conditions imposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/nov/17/reading-agree-six-point-deduction-with-efl-for-breaching-financial-rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Looks like suspended points are over this season and next….so and possibly wages brought back into line in January. Loans to go back??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_eastender Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said: If true, they've played a blinder. Not that I thought they'd finish below us with a full 12 point deduction! Sadly I agree, if the game management (sic) at Coventry is anything to go by Fleming won't be organising us to pick up many more points. Can see us in the bottom 3 by Xmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said: If true, they've played a blinder. Not that I thought they'd finish below us with a full 12 point deduction! Yep, that's really going to put clubs off cheating. We might as well have a go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 https://www.efl.com/contentassets/065e21d5596b42e7a882322d3a203509/efl-v-reading-fc---agreed-decision-approved-for-publication.pdf confirmed 6+6, and a string of other restrictions, one of which is cannot pay more than 3% to agents! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseybean Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 As per the title now confirmed….https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59320479 Which puts them in 19th place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Mods, please can you merge with Reading thread….ta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseybean Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Mods, please can you merge with Reading thread….ta Thanks Davefevs sorry I missed that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 No apology required to me at all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 We're in 18th now! It feels so much better ! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon bristol Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, mozo said: We're in 18th now! It feels so much better ! More importantly, that derby points reduction leaves them totally screwed,,, so now we only have to find 2 teams worse than us to survive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 44 minutes ago, Simon bristol said: More importantly, that derby points reduction leaves them totally screwed,,, so now we only have to find 2 teams worse than us to survive. Just let the FA do their work and we are in with a shout of top six. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Interesting to compare the Reading and Derby Agreed Decisions. Derby's case is more complicated by the fact that they are in administration, and that their charge around amortisation and failure to comply with FRS was more serious than Reading's simple failure to spend within their means. It seems to me like the restrictions placed upon the two clubs are not really commensurate with the really quite different facts. My summary of it is that both clubs cheated, but Derby tried to hide their cheating, whereas Reading overpsent, missed their deadline to get promoted, but didn't really try and hide it. Happy to be corrected on that. The broad difference in punishment seems to amount to Derby receiving an extra 3 points initial deduction, an agreed budget initially 25% lower than Reading's, (although coming down next season to a very similar figure), some specifics around their future accounting methods and amortisation model, and a few extra administrative items such as having to file accounts even if they didn't have to under the Companies Act. It feels like either Derby got off very lightly, or Reading got pretty badly punished. I guess the EFL are working within their own "sentencing guidelines", and quite possibly those don't allow for anything other than what has been served up. if that's the case then do those need reworking? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 That offers some insight thanks @ExiledAjax Although I would say that the Sanctioning Guidelines do give a points tariff. Derby case felt like a bit of a Plea Bargain when factoring everything in. Points to overspend. I can't remember it all off the top of my head but Derby's one made 18 in total. Breach 1=6 points Breach 2=9 points and Breach 3=3 points. Reading exceeded £15m, and that is 12 points. Not read agreed decision in full. Conditions on Derby feel quite significant, not just linked to the frankly fairly irrelevant 3 pts suspended but also what is expected of them moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 59 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Interesting to compare the Reading and Derby Agreed Decisions. Derby's case is more complicated by the fact that they are in administration, and that their charge around amortisation and failure to comply with FRS was more serious than Reading's simple failure to spend within their means. It seems to me like the restrictions placed upon the two clubs are not really commensurate with the really quite different facts. My summary of it is that both clubs cheated, but Derby tried to hide their cheating, whereas Reading overpsent, missed their deadline to get promoted, but didn't really try and hide it. Happy to be corrected on that. The broad difference in punishment seems to amount to Derby receiving an extra 3 points initial deduction, an agreed budget initially 25% lower than Reading's, (although coming down next season to a very similar figure), some specifics around their future accounting methods and amortisation model, and a few extra administrative items such as having to file accounts even if they didn't have to under the Companies Act. It feels like either Derby got off very lightly, or Reading got pretty badly punished. I guess the EFL are working within their own "sentencing guidelines", and quite possibly those don't allow for anything other than what has been served up. if that's the case then do those need reworking? I would like to have seen some form of “aggravated” penalty for Derby. I read the Reading one earlier. Surprised in both cases that the scale used in Brum case wasn’t applied. Although in Brum’s cases there were lots of other considerations, Pederson transfer, not selling Adams, etc that made up the 9 points. Perhaps both Reading and Derby got away with it a bit, Derby especially. Reading played ball, so I can see why they got 6+6. Perhaps a bit more transparency needed from EFL as to why points values were arrived at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I would like to have seen some form of “aggravated” penalty for Derby. I read the Reading one earlier. Surprised in both cases that the scale used in Brum case wasn’t applied. Although in Brum’s cases there were lots of other considerations, Pederson transfer, not selling Adams, etc that made up the 9 points. Perhaps both Reading and Derby got away with it a bit, Derby especially. Reading played ball, so I can see why they got 6+6. Perhaps a bit more transparency needed from EFL as to why points values were arrived at? Some of the conditions imposed on Derby in addition to the deduction and business plan might count in lieu of aggravation, however if Derby's wasn't an aggravated breach then what was. The points scale also seemed to have been applied in the case of Sheffield Wednesday at the IDC, but then bizarrely selling the stadium was counted in mitigation, not by a point or 2 say, and an £18m 12 point overspend was halved!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) Thanks to Reading''s 6 point deduction we have moved up to 18th in the Table. Praise be that 2 clubs have had points taken away, we just have to now hope that some indescretion can be found in Hull's finance's? ( Could we perhaps hire a private detective?)......and then we might, just might stay up? Edited November 17, 2021 by maxjak 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Sinclair Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, maxjak said: Thanks to Reading''s 6 point deduction we have moved up to 18th in the Table. Praise be that 2 clubs have had points taken away, we just have to now hope that some indescretion can be found in Hull's finance's? ( Could we perhaps hire a private detective?)......and then we might, just might stay up? I know just the man..... 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobintheRed Red Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, maxjak said: Thanks to Reading''s 6 point deduction we have moved up to 18th in the Table. Praise be that 2 clubs have had points taken away, we just have to now hope that some indescretion can be found in Hull's finance's? ( Could we perhaps hire a private detective?)......and then we might, just might stay up? Still finish above us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, maxjak said: Thanks to Reading''s 6 point deduction we have moved up to 18th in the Table. Praise be that 2 clubs have had points taken away, we just have to now hope that some indescretion can be found in Hull's finance's? ( Could we perhaps hire a private detective?)......and then we might, just might stay up? Hull are currently under EFL monitoring over a loan they have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 6 points is nothing really, Reading have a reasonable side.........two wins, back on track ! It might mean it scuppers their P O ambitions, but that's about all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, slartibartfast said: 6 points is nothing really, Reading have a reasonable side.........two wins, back on track ! It might mean it scuppers their P O ambitions, but that's about all. It's not that simple though. They will always be 2 wins worse off than everyone else. Effectively they are playing a 44 game season whereas everyone else (bar Derby) is playing a 46 game season. Their season is in effect now 4.3% shorter than a standard season. It's small, but it's not "nothing". Plus, as it has been handed down after 17 games, it also means that they have to now be 0.2 points per game better over the remaining 29 games in order to achieve the position they would have done without the 6 points. 0.2ppg is a significant difference in standard. Did they seriously have play-off ambitions? Realistically that was seriously unlikely before the deduction. Teams with -6 goal difference after 17 games do not typically recover to a play-off position. That would have been remarkable really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semblar Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 The only thing I can think of here, is with the -12 from admin as well, is the EFL view that they will get relegated without question - so adding more to the points deduction is not going to make any difference? If so, then the extra conditions are what makes a difference and they appear to be more stringent than for Reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tookster Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Question is - how many teams need to be docked points for us to carry on letting in goals and still stay up...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampshire reds Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 This is how bad it has become. we are hoping for teams to have points deducted for us to stay up. come on steve some tough decisions need to be made and hopefully get this club on the up again. we are in freefall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 The Reading statement (my highlighting) is classy too - a learning lesson in there for others. ROYALS ACCEPT SIX POINT PUNISHMENT FOLLOWING PROFIT & SUSTAINABILITY LIMIT BREACH Reading Football Club can confirm that we have accepted a penalty of a six point deduction as a result of exceeding the EFL’s Profit and Sustainability limits. The points deduction will be applied to our total with immediate effect. A further six point penalty has been suspended until 2022-23. This will be applied if the club cannot fulfil an agreed business plan going forward. The breach of regulations was calculated across a period of four years, two of which were unavoidably yet significantly impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. While there are undeniably extenuating and unforeseeable circumstances that have contributed to this breach, we accept this to be a fair and reasonable punishment and will learn the lessons from our recent past which have resulted in this deduction. We would like to take this opportunity to thank the EFL for their co-operation, professionalism and positive, open dialogue throughout this process. Our owner, Mr Dai Yongge, remains wholeheartedly committed to the club. While travel restrictions have limited his opportunity to follow the team in person at the Select Car Leasing Stadium during the pandemic, he has watched every match live via Royals TV or international TV broadcast to Asia. However, he was at Bearwood Park watching training this morning, having flown in from Hong Kong, and he will be at the stadium to watch us take on Nottingham Forest on Saturday. His commitment to our club remains unequivocal; having supported the club throughout a period of unprecedented disruption when key revenue streams for all clubs were suddenly severed, his investment has been overtly evident to all who visit our new multi-million pound Bearwood Park training complex - an environment tailored to attracting the best players to our club, helping our existing players flourish and ensuring our developing young players can reach their maximum potential. We also know our supporters will remain committed. In our anniversary season, we are reminded of this club’s incredible history. The hurdles it has overcome, the adversity it has faced and the success it has enjoyed as a direct result of tackling every twist and turn together. Lessons will be learned. Now is the time to come together. So, with two important home fixtures on the horizon, now we ask our fans to get firmly behind our first team as we collectively look to move forward with positivity and renewed purpose. Thank you, as always, for your support. Owner Mr Dai Yongge said, “As the owner of your club, I am naturally dismayed and disappointed to accept the punishment issued by the EFL. And as a fan, I too am hurt by a deduction of six points this season. However, my determination to succeed has not diminished but has amplified. “My team and I believe this settlement is just and will still enable us to be competitive as a football club this season and beyond. So, in the short-term, our aim is to fight for every point there is to fight for this season. “In the long-term, we pledge to fix the issues of the past and together build a club capable of competing with the very best and challenging for honours. But we can only do that with your support, so I would like to personally thank you for your loyalty to your club! It is truly appreciated by all who cheer on the Royals.” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Hampshire reds said: This is how bad it has become. we are hoping for teams to have points deducted for us to stay up. come on steve some tough decisions need to be made and hopefully get this club on the up again. we are in freefall. Scary Innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 4 hours ago, Hampshire reds said: This is how bad it has become. we are hoping for teams to have points deducted for us to stay up. come on steve some tough decisions need to be made and hopefully get this club on the up again. we are in freefall, up the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 6 hours ago, Tookster said: Question is - how many teams need to be docked points for us to carry on letting in goals and still stay up...? At this rate, if other clubs continue to get points deducted, we may end up getting promoted. Fully deserved, of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Just now, Bazooka Joe said: At this rate, if other clubs continue to get points deducted, we may end up getting promoted. Fully deserved, of course. In a perverse way, I suspect SL and Gibson were big allies in terms of trying to get the EFL (under the cretin Shaun Harvey at the time) to punish Derby and Villa. Villa might’ve scraped through FFP (I’m not sure) in fairness, but Derby have now been proved to have cheated for that season. Ifs buts and maybes, but we could’ve been a playoff team? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: In a perverse way, I suspect SL and Gibson were big allies in terms of trying to get the EFL (under the cretin Shaun Harvey at the time) to punish Derby and Villa. Villa might’ve scraped through FFP (I’m not sure) in fairness, but Derby have now been proved to have cheated for that season. Ifs buts and maybes, but we could’ve been a playoff team? And to add insult to injury, knowing our luck, we would probably have won the play-offs on that occasion. Any idea how to access that parallel universe? I'm sick of this one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: Any idea how to access that parallel universe? I'm sick of this one. Any AG turnstile will transport you there…..the parallel universe is worse than reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Any AG turnstile will transport you there…..the parallel universe is worse than reality Worse !!!? Has Mark Ashton returned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said: Worse !!!? Has Mark Ashton returned? Somewhere in the multiverse there is a world where Mark Ashton owns City and has appointed Tony Pulis with Hollowhead as his assistant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said: Somewhere in the multiverse there is a world where Mark Ashton owns City and has appointed Tony Pulis with Hollowhead as his assistant. Proof, if it were needed, that there really is a place called Hell. Edited November 19, 2021 by Bazooka Joe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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