Ashton's Neglect

[Kid in the Riot]

Interested to learn that it wasn't just the men's team that Ashton neglected during his tenure at the club, but that it also extended to Bristol City WFC. Apparently he paid little or no interest in the WFC, which contributed significantly to their decline and ultimately relegation at the end of last season.

I was told by someone that would certainly know that, and I paraphrase, "the WFC is in need of a complete rebuild outside of the Super League and it is likely to take 2-3 years to get back into the top flight and sort the entire structure of the club out". Now, where have I heard similar to that before? He wrecked the women's team as he wrecked the men's team.

Now some people may have cynically seen those pictures of Pearson at the WFC game a few weeks back and thought he'd attended the game either for a photo op and good bit of PR, or because he was bored.

Not so, he has in fact been quite instrumental in helping out and providing advice to the WFC. So much so in fact that he recommended the new Head of Operations Grace Williams to the WFC, with whom he had worked with at Watford. He considers the WFC to be part of the Bristol City FC team and project, just like he considers everyone that works at the football club to be part of the project, from the ticketing team, to the media team, to the changing room cleaners to the bus driver. 

How encouraging and refreshing to have somebody in charge that takes such a keen interest in all aspects of the club. A far-cry from the previous regime.

[Davefevs]

That’s brilliant to hear (about Nige, not the bit about Ashton).

[Lrrr]

Honest question, how much would/should Ashton have really overseen of the women’s team? In the sense with the men’s team where he integrated himself into everything like recruitment etc the women’s team had their own general manager. 

[gamon]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Interested to learn that it wasn't just the men's team that Ashton neglected during his tenure at the club, but that it also extended to Bristol City WFC. Apparently he paid little or no interest in the WFC, which contributed significantly to their decline and ultimately relegation at the end of last season.

I was told by someone that would certainly know that, and I paraphrase, "the WFC is in need of a complete rebuild outside of the Super League and it is likely to take 2-3 years to get back into the top flight and sort the entire structure of the club out". Now, where have I heard similar to that before? He wrecked the women's team as he wrecked the men's team.

Now some people may have cynically seen those pictures of Pearson at the WFC game a few weeks back and thought he'd attended the game either for a photo op and good bit of PR, or because he was bored.

Not so, he has in fact been quite instrumental in helping out and providing advice to the WFC. So much so in fact that he recommended the new Head of Operations Grace Williams to the WFC, with whom he had worked with at Watford. He considers the WFC to be part of the Bristol City FC team and project, just like he considers everyone that works at the football club to be part of the project, from the ticketing team, to the media team, to the changing room cleaners to the bus driver. 

How encouraging and refreshing to have somebody in charge that takes such a keen interest in all aspects of the club. A far-cry from the previous regime.

What was interesting is SL still rated Ashton following his departure and had kind words to say.

He destroyed everything good following our promotion season but the owner is unable or unwilling to acknowledge that.

You are right about Pearson. I like how he is going about this season which is a big improvement on last year's disaster.

[CyderInACan]

8 minutes ago, gamon said:

What was interesting is SL still rated Ashton following his departure and had kind words to say.

I'd imagine that what he says publicly is somewhat poles apart from his private view. 

[Calculus]

... now doing the same job for poor old Ipswich. Mind you, it will be Cook that takes the fall.

[shahanshahan]

Surprised I didn't see this post in the City Women thread, but thank you sharing @Kid in the Riot.

Completely forgot about Grace Williams & Nigel Pearson's previous connection at Watford!

[shahanshahan]

Also, it's interesting that Ashton was previously the chairman of the City Women board, however he was not so public with any statements compared to whenever he talked about the men's team

[bearded_red]

2 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

Another genuinely atrocious post, keeping up your 100% record.

[Northern Red]

2 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

Oddball.

[LondonBristolian]

26 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Honest question, how much would/should Ashton have really overseen of the women’s team? In the sense with the men’s team where he integrated himself into everything like recruitment etc the women’s team had their own general manager. 

As I understand it, Ashton was the CEO of the entire club - including the women's team - and ultimately he should have been overseeing everything. A CEO might choose to delegate things (indeed Ashton probably should have delegated many aspects recruitment on the men's side) but still needs to have oversight of those things and be ready to proactively intervene if those things are not working. 

[Kid in the Riot]

28 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Honest question, how much would/should Ashton have really overseen of the women’s team? In the sense with the men’s team where he integrated himself into everything like recruitment etc the women’s team had their own general manager. 

He was chairman of the WFC board! So it was absolutely his remit to oversee it.

Richard Gould has now taken on that role, and is unsurprisingly bringing much-needed enthusiasm to the job. 

[cityloyal473]

14 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

Thanks, Mark.

[Lrrr]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

He was chairman of the WFC board! So it was absolutely his remit to oversee it.

Richard Gould has now taken on that role, and is unsurprisingly bringing much-needed enthusiasm to the job. 

I don't mind a spot of Ashton bashing as much as the next person, just trying to look at it with a balanced view, have we not criticised our chairmen before for being too hands on? I'm not saying he was doing a good job or even adequate (hell or even a rubbish job as that still sounds better) but feel the nature of the set up of the womens team makes it a different style to that of the mens team in that if we had a director of football or sporting director etc and Ashton was going over/around them would probably get criticised for doing the job of someone else (I mean he'd probably love it). Obviously relegation shines a spotlight on failures but for someone with (probable) limited knowledge of the womens game (insert joke of in addition to the mens game) I can at least see why he left things to people with a better understanding of the womens game.  

[CyderInACan]

12 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

I don't mind a spot of Ashton bashing as much as the next person, just trying to look at it with a balanced view, have we not criticised our chairmen before for being too hands on?

Massive difference between being Chairman and and being CEO. 

[exAtyeoMax]

26 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

By that reckoning we should be mid table premier league… MA and SL’s strategy was not sustainable, and has been discussed at length on this forum. It’s not all about money…

[CyderInACan]

33 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

Which Hampshire are you in? It can't be the one in the UK, surely? 

Mark Ashton single handedly gaslit our entire club. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by CyderInACan

[Super]

32 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

Why is it every time i read one of your posts i find myself shaking my head?!

[GreedyHarry]

34 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

Why would we see you tonight? We’re not playing Ipswich are we Mark?

[gamon]

46 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I'd imagine that what he says publicly is somewhat poles apart from his private view. 

I'd hope his private view is different to his public view. There was no need to share that opinion with us and I found it interesting that he chose to defend Ashton.

I think from reading your posts you share a similar opinion to me on Ashton. Good man!

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, CyderInACan said:

I'd imagine that what he says publicly is somewhat poles apart from his private view. 

Exactly right - any negative public comments regarding Ashton would reflect badly on SL himself who appointed him.

Point is - SL and many of us were conned by the smooth fraud Ashton and he then carried on conning others particularly his current employers.

How long will it be before the Tractor Boys see through him? 

[BigTone]

Move on

[Rudolf Hucker]

5 minutes ago, TomF said:

I'm still confused by the two posters. 

Aren't we all? 

[TomThumb84]

1 hour ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

Extending your astounding run of catastrophic posts with a belter here my friend!

Edited September 15, 2021 by TomThumb84

[Bernard Lerring]

1 hour ago, CyderInACan said:

I'd imagine that what he says publicly is somewhat poles apart from his private view. 

I find this curious too -  i do realise SL might have to be seen to not publicly slate Ashton.

But if an employee of mine had been exposed (eventually) as performing so badly, I'd choose to say nothing at all about them publicly, not positive opinions which I don't genuinely hold.

SL must be way more understanding / tactile than me obviously!

[Merrick's Marvels]

46 minutes ago, Super said:

Why is it every time i read one of your posts i find myself shaking my head?!

Because they're a moron? Or perhaps a massive WUM, which is moronic behaviour by another name. A moron it is then. 

[headhunter]

1 hour ago, gamon said:

What was interesting is SL still rated Ashton following his departure and had kind words to say.

He destroyed everything good following our promotion season but the owner is unable or unwilling to acknowledge that.

You are right about Pearson. I like how he is going about this season which is a big improvement on last year's disaster.

To do so is a sign of not wanting to lose face IMHO

[Tinmans Love Child]

1 hour ago, gamon said:

What was interesting is SL still rated Ashton following his departure and had kind words to say.

He destroyed everything good following our promotion season but the owner is unable or unwilling to acknowledge that.

You are right about Pearson. I like how he is going about this season which is a big improvement on last year's disaster.

He’s hardly going to start slagging Ashton off in public is he!

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, bearded_red said:

Another genuinely atrocious post, keeping up your 100% record.

They both need a permanent transfer to the CITY TILL I DIE Facebook site 

[Kid in the Riot]

Just now, headhunter said:

To do so is a sign of not wanting to lose face IMHO

Possibly. Though SL has certainly aimed parting shots at previous managers including Cotts and SOD. Why protect MA?

Regards thanking MA for the HPC. Maybe it was simply a case that MA did do a good job on that particular project? 

[Dolman_Stand]

1 hour ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

I personally agree with most of what you say despite the many who have since derided it, regardless of whether you are for or against though I do think that as a forum we really need to move on from MA / LJ as I struggle to find many threads where either of them aren't mentioned even now.

[Simon bristol]

2 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

I'd imagine that what he says publicly is somewhat poles apart from his private view. 

While i dont disagree with the general consensus about ashton, i dont see why lansdown would come out publicly to support ashton if he couldnt stand him privately,,, surely he wouldnt bother saying anything about him if he wanted to remain professional, but couldnt stand him

[Akira]

17 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

I personally agree with most of what you say despite the many who have since derided it, regardless of whether you are for or against though I do think that as a forum we really need to move on from MA / LJ as I struggle to find many threads where either of them aren't mentioned even now.

Thing is, it's being discussed still, purely because of the consequences its had on our football club. It's set us back years, so of course we're still going to discuss it, as it's one of the most important things that's happened to our club in recent years.

LJ/MA spent an absolute fortune on players, now we barely have a pot to piss in, but we've got an absolute class manager in (finally), so it's all going to be talking points still, one that I think brings in good discussions. 

[Dolman_Stand]

3 minutes ago, Akira said:

Thing is, it's being discussed still, purely because of the consequences its had on our football club. It's set us back years, so of course we're still going to discuss it, as it's one of the most important things that's happened to our club in recent years.

LJ/MA spent an absolute fortune on players, now we barely have a pot to piss in, but we've got an absolute class manager in (finally), so it's all going to be talking points still, one that I think brings in good discussions. 

Yest they did under the guidelines set out for them by SL and also on the basis that there were large transfer fee's recouped along the way to pay for it, as for our current financial standing how much of that is down to MA and how much is down to Covid is a very blurred line but we still spent more on transfer fee's than the majority of the division this summer (especially if you take out the clubs on parachute payments) so I'm not sure we are comparitively worse off than anyone else. Improved contracts are also being handed out to the likes of Scott and apparently Pring despite there not necessarily being a need to in terms of expiry dates.

I just find it all a bit strange and wearing that every time a positive performance or interview lands its instant met with "we would never have got this from LJ / MA" whereas that simply isn't true...were they perfect? Absolutely not but nothing is in life and that particular cycle had just run its course. I can't remember such vitriol and ill feeling ever being given to any other individuals in my time watching City despite us never having been a genuinely mid to upper table Championship club previously.

IMO LJ went at the right time and at that point although we were showing signs of decline and performances hadn't been fantastic for a little while the whole club wasn't broken to the point it was at the end of last season...the Holden appointment that caused the issues and should never happened, we will probably never know who drove that decision. On the flip side I don't think we have "been set back years" and with Pearson at the helm I am hopeful that by the end of this season and definetley next we will be on an upward trajectory again.

[Son of Fred]

3 hours ago, gamon said:

What was interesting is SL still rated Ashton following his departure and had kind words to say.

Where would we be without SL????

Who knows - but I'm happy he's here....

His judgement though has to be seen as questionable.

[Rob k]

7 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Where would we be without SL????

Who knows - but I'm happy he's here....

His judgement though has to be seen as questionable.

We would be in the same place probably 

SL decision making at this club leaves a lot to be desired - there is no strategy 

[Wrongagain]

5 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Where would we be without SL????

Who knows - but I'm happy he's here....

His judgement though has to be seen as questionable.

Did SL once say that the buck stops with him?

No wonder he has stayed tight lipped about his 2 wonder boys that failed him so badly.

Without SLs support I dread to think where our club would be today!

COYR

[054123]

3 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

Bingo!

[gamon]

40 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Where would we be without SL????

Who knows - but I'm happy he's here....

His judgement though has to be seen as questionable.

I agree.

As to where we'd be without SL? Who knows.

Personally, I'm looking forward to where we'll end up with Pearson running the team and Gould ably looking after the other stuff.

[glynriley]

3 minutes ago, gamon said:

I agree.

As to where we'd be without SL? Who knows.

Personally, I'm looking forward to where we'll end up with Pearson running the team and Gould ably looking after the other stuff.

I get the feeling Nige is running a lot more than the first team.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Yest they did under the guidelines set out for them by SL and also on the basis that there were large transfer fee's recouped along the way to pay for it, as for our current financial standing how much of that is down to MA and how much is down to Covid is a very blurred line but we still spent more on transfer fee's than the majority of the division this summer (especially if you take out the clubs on parachute payments) so I'm not sure we are comparitively worse off than anyone else. Improved contracts are also being handed out to the likes of Scott and apparently Pring despite there not necessarily being a need to in terms of expiry dates.

I just find it all a bit strange and wearing that every time a positive performance or interview lands its instant met with "we would never have got this from LJ / MA" whereas that simply isn't true...were they perfect? Absolutely not but nothing is in life and that particular cycle had just run its course. I can't remember such vitriol and ill feeling ever being given to any other individuals in my time watching City despite us never having been a genuinely mid to upper table Championship club previously.

IMO LJ went at the right time and at that point although we were showing signs of decline and performances hadn't been fantastic for a little while the whole club wasn't broken to the point it was at the end of last season...the Holden appointment that caused the issues and should never happened, we will probably never know who drove that decision. On the flip side I don't think we have "been set back years" and with Pearson at the helm I am hopeful that by the end of this season and definetley next we will be on an upward trajectory again.

I think you are right to raise / debate what you have above, it ain’t black and white is it?

I will always try to present a balance in my “arguments” for and against, might not feel an even balance.  In Mark Ashton’s case, the view is grey, but imho it’s dark grey, rather than light grey.  Others may see it the other way, that’s when good discussion can be held.  I think we hit poor discussion when posters can only look at it from one side.  It is fine to disagree with the other side but try to explain why is helpful.

FWIW, we did stay within FFP, so you can rightly argue that he only spent what he brought in.  My side of this debate is that with a diminishing squad in terms of asset value, the ability to sell players to cover the costs was trending towards coming to a head.  Covid has sped that up, Covid is not the root cause, “reckless” spending is the root cause.  That spending has been the focus of mine since the window of Jan 2018. My analysis over the months since reached a conclusion that the trend did not look good.  Rising costs, less players / less value to offset costs with player sales.

I think Mark Ashton saw that happening and bailed on us (and his responsibilities too).  He rode the good times and was a busted flush here as the going began to get tough.

He’s jumped ship to a club about to ride a big wave of investment.  He’s an opportunist is a polite way of putting it.

Just to follow up on your point RW this summer’s signing - the reason Nige has spent a few quid on transfers is because:

• he’s cut the wage bill (Bristol Post suggesting by a third - no mean feat, I’m not sure it’s quite that high from my estimates)
• he’s cut amortisation millstone going forward by about £6m p.a for the next two seasons, and another £5.5m in 23/24

Mark Ashton loaded the accounts with future costs.  It looks great to make £25m net in player sales in the 19/20 season, but if you spend £25m on fees plus all the other associated costs, you load costs in over future years.

Under MA with LJ and DH (even though DH wasn’t given much in way of transfer funds) they retained a large playing squad at a huge cost, disproportionate to income, and therefore the only way of staying “in budget / FFP” was to sell players.

Early days indeed, but not unreasonable to say we might well be getting more for our money with Nige in charge.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, glynriley said:

I get the feeling Nige is running a lot more than the first team.

I said in the summer, he’s playing a “General Manager” role too.  Whether that balance will change we’ll see.

[spudski]

Putting your trust in MA to run the club, when you have a son as managing director of the club seems all at odds...what does he manage or direct? Serious question...you'd think he'd be the go between, eyes and ears for SL. 

[CyderInACan]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

Putting your trust in MA to run the club, when you have a son as managing director of the club seems all at odds...what does he manage or direct? Serious question...you'd think he'd be the go between, eyes and ears for SL. 

There are none so blind as those who will not see

[Banjo Red]

Not to go over old news but the bloke was poison.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

There are none so blind as those who will not see

I'd love to know what he actually does on a day to day basis. 

[t_b]

At least - if SL wanted to - it’s a lot cheaper to address shortcomings with the women’s team. 
For the cost of one Nahki Wells (& a lot of persuasion) you could build an entire squad of elite players in an attempt to reach the top fast. 

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'd love to know what he actually does on a day to day basis. 

Firstly he stares at himself in the mirror, then drives to Portman Rd in his top of the range Merc. Then poses and looks at himself at every opportunity and he struts about the place charming but conning all at the same time.

Then he makes statements like “it’s communication, not consultation” when making major decisions.

Then he goes home………..and repeats it all again the next day.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Robbored

[Rudolf Hucker]

50 minutes ago, glynriley said:

I get the feeling Nige is running a lot more than the first team.

I’m sure he served me a burrito at AG on Saturday. 

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'd love to know what he actually does on a day to day basis. 

Me too, but he does have various roles across City and Bristol Sport….so not all his time is Bristol City.  Not defending him btw.

[SBB]

3 hours ago, TomF said:

I'm still confused by the two posters. 

I genuinely thought they were the same person…. Posting on one account when drunk and posting on the other when even more so. 

[lenred]

36 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'd love to know what he actually does on a day to day basis. 

Would've been great to have more information on roles and responsibilities but now MA is out and Gould is in I’m a lot less worried tbh. 

[downendcity]

5 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

I think most will recognise MA’s skill as a negotiator and his ability to secure some eye watering fees for player sales. However, I think you are interpreting SL’s sustainability strategy a little to generously in Ashton’s favour. 

SL recognised that we could not continue as we had been, with the owner just pouring more of his money into the club to cover losses, resulting from recruiting journeymen pros on big wages and impossible to ship out easily.. Not just that, but the introduction of ffp meant that he could not continue to do that without penalties resulting.

As I saw it, the strategy, as far as player recruitment was concerned, was in 2 parts.

1. The academy, in which ffp allowed SL to invest, would be a focus for our own young players able to develop into first team players and in so doing saving the club money in terms of transfer fees and inflated wages necessary for more experienced players. If, as in the case of the likes of Bryan and Kelly, they developed well enough, but had the chance to move to bigger and better clubs, then we would secure a profit with transfer fees received.

2. Focussing on younger players, costing initially less in transfer fees and wages, able to compete for a first team place but if they developed and wanted to move to bigger and better, could be sold for a profit.

Both options would help reduce the wage bill and  transfer fees received would help reduce losses and provide funds to further develop and enhance the playing squad. 

The majority of Ashton’s spectacular sales successes came from players he didn't bring to the club. The success we are now seeing with players coming through the academy ( Pring, Scott and more to come) can hardly be attributed to Ashton - although I suspect he would claim full responsibility and credit  for the academy’s success. 

Had we continued buying and selling as we did with Flint (replacing him with the cheaper but better Webster), then we wouldn't be having this discussion. However, under Ashton’s watch, he garnered a bloated squad , with too many average players, too many midfielders that we pretty similar to each other and, crucially, a bulging wage bill. The latter meant that profits from player sales were then needed to stem growing losses. Instead of being a means to an end, selling players for a profit become an end in itself in order to keep losses within ffp limits.

I agree that it now seems that SL invested too much trust in MA ( and whatever he might say publicly, I suspect in private he feels let down). However, in the longer term I think the club is better off without Ashton and the “family and friends” employment agency he seemed to be running while here. In Pearson we have a manager with experience who is moving us forward in the right direction, a new chief exec who is neither seen or heard, but gets on with his job and a medical team that is keeping players on the pitch, rather than in the treatment room. 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by downendcity

[CyderInACan]

9 minutes ago, TomF said:

I've just clocked which returned, banned, user it is. 

 

Not Wes Burns' dad again . . . 

[Rudolf Hucker]

15 minutes ago, TomF said:

I've just clocked which returned, banned, user it is. 

 

Intriguing! I love playing “Guess Who”. I’ll start.

Does he wear glasses?

[glynriley]

1 minute ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Intriguing! I love playing “Guess Who”. I’ll start.

Does he wear glasses?

No, that's me...

[fairweather]

4 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Aren't we all? 

Re Two Posters- think of them like your normal Four Posters just a bit easier to get into to. Shouldn’t slow you down too much

[Rudolf Hucker]

1 minute ago, glynriley said:

No, that's me...

Ok. Does she have a moustache?

[cidered abroad]

5 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

Sorry @Hampshire Red but you must live on another planet. We've had bumbling managers and senior staff members and players who weren't very good but, to the best of my knowledge, only two who apparently have knowingly misbehaved for their own benefit. One was Tony Dance and the other is the mist inaptly named MA.

I doubt that SL will ever publicly admit how much he was "taken for a ride".

Fortunately it may take us a while to recover but I and many others have faith in Pearson, even if he's grumpy sometimes with media people, Gould and Dave Rennie.

[Dolman_Stand]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think you are right to raise / debate what you have above, it ain’t black and white is it?

I will always try to present a balance in my “arguments” for and against, might not feel an even balance.  In Mark Ashton’s case, the view is grey, but imho it’s dark grey, rather than light grey.  Others may see it the other way, that’s when good discussion can be held.  I think we hit poor discussion when posters can only look at it from one side.  It is fine to disagree with the other side but try to explain why is helpful.

FWIW, we did stay within FFP, so you can rightly argue that he only spent what he brought in.  My side of this debate is that with a diminishing squad in terms of asset value, the ability to sell players to cover the costs was trending towards coming to a head.  Covid has sped that up, Covid is not the root cause, “reckless” spending is the root cause.  That spending has been the focus of mine since the window of Jan 2018. My analysis over the months since reached a conclusion that the trend did not look good.  Rising costs, less players / less value to offset costs with player sales.

I think Mark Ashton saw that happening and bailed on us (and his responsibilities too).  He rode the good times and was a busted flush here as the going began to get tough.

He’s jumped ship to a club about to ride a big wave of investment.  He’s an opportunist is a polite way of putting it.

Just to follow up on your point RW this summer’s signing - the reason Nige has spent a few quid on transfers is because:

• he’s cut the wage bill (Bristol Post suggesting by a third - no mean feat, I’m not sure it’s quite that high from my estimates)
• he’s cut amortisation millstone going forward by about £6m p.a for the next two seasons, and another £5.5m in 23/24

Mark Ashton loaded the accounts with future costs.  It looks great to make £25m net in player sales in the 19/20 season, but if you spend £25m on fees plus all the other associated costs, you load costs in over future years.

Under MA with LJ and DH (even though DH wasn’t given much in way of transfer funds) they retained a large playing squad at a huge cost, disproportionate to income, and therefore the only way of staying “in budget / FFP” was to sell players.

Early days indeed, but not unreasonable to say we might well be getting more for our money with Nige in charge.

You have a much better handle on this than me so I can only bow to your greater knowledge but there is no way that this "gamble" mentality wouldn't have been signed off by SL as an educated risk IMO, losing 18 months of your largest revenue stream will have obviously impacted on this and if the Webster deal was done 12 months later (i.e. after Covid hit) presumably the same quantity of players and therefore wages wouldn't have been re-invested in and the future balance sheet therefore wouldn't have been as loaded. Also could SL have agreed to it on the basis he could fund it (or account it in a cleaver way for FFP) in another way should it not work out which it now hasnt?

Also Its probably not much of an argument but even with your analysis we can't be as badly positioned as a number of other Championship clubs so its not like we were being run compartively worse than our competitors?

I suppose what I don't like about it that you've got a greater level of financial understanding and can make a case for why you believe MA was a bad CEO whereas the majority of people don't and simply abused him because he wore a suit, had a Brummy accent, spoke in "business speak" etc and act like he was the spawn of satan. We've been in far worse positions as a club in my time following yet never seen anyone who the majority of the fanbase actvely want to see fail so much.

RE Pearson's summer "spending", from your points above, I cna't imagine the wage bill wouldn't have been substantially regardless of whever was here in the summer given the current circumstances and given we look like heading towards a mid-table finish on current form we haven't really been "set back years" at all.

 

 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

You have a much better handle on this than me so I can only bow to your greater knowledge but there is no way that this "gamble" mentality wouldn't have been signed off by SL as an educated risk IMO, losing 18 months of your largest revenue stream will have obviously impacted on this and if the Webster deal was done 12 months later (i.e. after Covid hit) presumably the same quantity of players and therefore wages wouldn't have been re-invested in and the future balance sheet therefore wouldn't have been as loaded. Also could SL have agreed to it on the basis he could fund it (or account it in a cleaver way for FFP) in another way should it not work out which it now hasnt?

 

Part of the problem was that he’d sold all the “Adam Webster’s” if that makes sense.  There was no £20m player last summer, when Covid hadn’t really affected the transfer market, because most clubs thought we’d be back inside full stadiums in Oct 2020.  He’d looked good in the good years….Flint, Bryan, Kodjia, Reid, Webster and Brownhill.  Hell, he even benefitted from Bolassie to the tune of £4m!!  But last summer what was he left with.  You don’t make £10m on an £8m signing like Kalas.  So some flaws in his approach.  Not all sh1t, but a fair bit of it.  In some ways he was hamstrung by a manager who couldn’t make up his mind which system to play abd who was in his trust group.  That’s where his lack of skills in Talent ID and recruitment strategy let him down….he didn’t know enough about football (the playing side) to rein LJ in, nor do I suspect he wanted too, as each signing was a vanity trip.

12 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Also Its probably not much of an argument but even with your analysis we can't be as badly positioned as a number of other Championship clubs so its not like we were being run compartively worse than our competitors?

There are some crappy clubs, but beyond the PP clubs I suspect we are trending towards the bottom of the clubs that’ aren’t Derby, Reading etc.  That’s a bit of a fall from grace.

14 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

I suppose what I don't like about it that you've got a greater level of financial understanding and can make a case for why you believe MA was a bad CEO whereas the majority of people don't and simply abused him because he wore a suit, had a Brummy accent, spoke in "business speak" etc and act like he was the spawn of satan. We've been in far worse positions as a club in my time following yet never seen anyone who the majority of the fanbase actvely want to see fail so much.

Thanks…but I think that is where his “personality” lets him down.  I could ignore that if he achieved here, but it’s another reason to dislike the bloke.  We should never have divisive appointments at our club really.  You can argue LJ was divisive too (some fans dislike him as a player, nepotism, etc), so to have 2 such characters was a double whammy.

17 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

RE Pearson's summer "spending", from your points above, I cna't imagine the wage bill wouldn't have been substantially regardless of whever was here in the summer given the current circumstances and given we look like heading towards a mid-table finish on current form we haven't really been "set back years" at all.

I guess this one about where you are drawing the line from, and I’m possibly being slightly biased.  If I go back to 18/19 when we finished 8th, that was the point to kick-on. Instead our costs have played a part in us going backwards….we treaded water in 19/20, a bad end saw us finish 12th.  Then last season….eeeek!  So looking at where we are now, I liken it to 16/17 and the journey from there.  That’s why I say we are set back.

But I can see why you think we aren’t in too bad a position to kick on….if we can maintain the improvement.  Nige should’ve had a better hand to deal with and future resources to invest to make us stronger, which is where LJ and MA were in 16/17, peaking sporadically over the next 2 seasons.  It was ok to talk year on year league position improvement, but if you go all-in on that without looking at the bigger financial picture (was always my argument you can’t look at league position in isolation) then you will find it hard to work out the reason why it went wrong.

Its all about opinions, the above is mine.  I think it has sound basis, but I’m always willing to hear another viewpoint.

 

(and I’ve finally worked out how to quote a section)

[shahanshahan]

6 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

He was chairman of the WFC board! So it was absolutely his remit to oversee it.

Richard Gould has now taken on that role, and is unsurprisingly bringing much-needed enthusiasm to the job. 

*checks all the replies this thread has had in case someone else had mentioned it already*

Mark Ashton was CEO of City men & chairman of Bristol City Women. While Richard Gould is CEO of City now, the chairperson is Gavin Marshall, even though Gould is also on the City Women board (as is Marshall on the City men/Bristol Sport boards). But yes, Gould is very enthusiastic

Edited September 15, 2021 by shahanshahan

[supercidered]

1 hour ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Ok. Does she have a moustache?

If so, have you had her?

[Rudolf Hucker]

3 minutes ago, supercidered said:

If so, have you had her?

If she had a moustache, most definitely. 

[maxjak]

11 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

I have the number of a good psychiatrist if your interested?............or perhaps you could ring up your good buddy Mark for some advice?

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

6 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Max, I am sure you do, your posts may it pretty clear you call them daily.

M.A Isn't my buddy, but an ex-employee of the Club i love

 

You really really need to get out more.... or pop off and support Mark Ashtons Ipswich....

[steviestevieneville]

On 15/09/2021 at 10:53, Hampshire Red said:

Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that.

Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi

See you tonight? CoYRS

**** me. What is it with you & the other Hampshire idiot . Is it something in the water down there or were you both banished from Bristol .

[Phileas Fogg]

7 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Max, I am sure you do, your posts may it pretty clear you call them daily.

M.A Isn't my buddy, but an ex-employee of the Club i love

 

Slightly poor taste to be making mental health jokes I think. 

[Kid in the Riot]

On 15/09/2021 at 09:30, Kid in the Riot said:

Now some people may have cynically seen those pictures of Pearson at the WFC game a few weeks back and thought he'd attended the game either for a photo op and good bit of PR, or because he was bored.

Not so, he has in fact been quite instrumental in helping out and providing advice to the WFC. So much so in fact that he recommended the new Head of Operations Grace Williams to the WFC, with whom he had worked with at Watford. He considers the WFC to be part of the Bristol City FC team and project, just like he considers everyone that works at the football club to be part of the project, from the ticketing team, to the media team, to the changing room cleaners to the bus driver. 

How encouraging and refreshing to have somebody in charge that takes such a keen interest in all aspects of the club. A far-cry from the previous regime.

Just saw this, below, from Abi Harrison on twitter. She's Bristol City WFC top scorer this season, and as you'll see it backs up what I said last year (above) about Pearson's influence on the WFC.

Compare & contrast Pearson's involvement with the WFC, whilst managing the men's first team, with Mark Ashton's complete disregard for the WFC, and it's like chalk and cheese.

We're heading in the right direction off-field under Nige.