Andy Cole on Jacki Dziekanowski

[ooRya]

I've been watching City for about 45 years, and have had many good or bad weekends depending on results. But, for a short period of time, I didn't care whether City won or lost.........I went to watch Jacki and Andy Cole.

[BTRFTG]

14 hours ago, Robbored said:

Scot Murray was as skilled as Jacki and scored many more

Scoring is the only department in which Murray Top Trumps Jacki, but so as not to tarnish the reputation of much of the sinister half of BS3 that's not something of which gentlemen boast.

 

[Cowshed]

13 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

He was just before my time. Was he really head and shoulders in terms of ability above the likes of Noble, JET and Tomlin? All three had incredible natural ability but also never delivered on a regular basis. I feel the highlights reel from those three may exceed Jacki, but could well be wrong. 

Interested to know your opinion.... 

The abilty isn't natural. Players create their talent by practicing for thousands of hours. Dziekanowski must have practiced intensely to develop his talent. But ability is a skill where a player can perform a skill on demand. Dziekanowski at Bristol City became unskilled and unprofessional. He made Tomlin look workmanlike. He lacked the abilty to perform anywhere near the level his peers did. 

Was he head and shoulder above? No. Ability is delivering. Ability is passing a ball ten feet to feet not flicking it and losing possession of the ball 50% (and far more) of the time. 

Dziekanowski had a degree of freestyler about him. JET can certainly go through the same but left it where it belongs. Dziekanowski's rainbow flick and volley .. It missed. Most of what he did was utterly ineffectual. 

Romantic v the time (Osman) but a waste of talent. He had a handful of great/good games and a majority where he was a disniterested passenger. Hardwork beats talent when talent doesn't work. BCFC had to play with ten with Dziekanowski on the pitch.

 

[tin]

13 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

He was just before my time. Was he really head and shoulders in terms of ability above the likes of Noble, JET and Tomlin? All three had incredible natural ability but also never delivered on a regular basis. I feel the highlights reel from those three may exceed Jacki, but could well be wrong. 

Interested to know your opinion.... 

Like you mate, I was too young to assess Jacki's overall impact back then. But I was at the Wolves game in '92 when he scored twice late on, and that clearly lives long in the memory 29 years' later. Like JET and Noble, he was a mecurial talent. 

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, ooRya said:

I've been watching City for about 45 years, and have had many good or bad weekends depending on results. But, for a short period of time, I didn't care whether City won or lost.........I went to watch Jacki and Andy Cole.

Andy Cole was always going to move on and whoever was the CEO when he went to Newcastle failed to put a sell on clause in the deal. He then went to Man Utd for mega bucks………

When it comes to skills two other names are worth a mention - JET and Tomlin, both matched Jacki’s skills but JET in particular was just as lazy. At least Tomlin ran around a bit.

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The abilty isn't natural. Players create their talent by practicing for thousands of hours. Dziekanowski must have practiced intensely to develop his talent. But ability is a skill where a player can perform a skill on demand. Dziekanowski at Bristol City became unskilled and unprofessional. He made Tomlin look workmanlike. He lacked the abilty to perform anywhere near the level his peers did. 

Top players can hone their skills for sure but to become as quick footed as Jacki was most of that would been natural ability. He was born with it. Probably didn’t have to practice much either.

Same with JET and Tomlin.

[Cowshed]

Just now, Robbored said:

Andy Cole was always going to move on and whoever was the CEO when he went to Newcastle failed to put a sell on clause in the deal. He then went to Man Utd for mega bucks………

When it comes to skills two other names are worth a mention - JET and Tomlin, both matched Jacki’s skills but JET in particular was just as lazy. At least Tomlin ran around a bit.

JET under Cotterill was required to hold a shape. He did this in the team successfully to possibly the detriment of his football but still contributed goals and assists. 

Tomlin. Err Lee Johnosn brought in extra coaching staff like Micheal Meaker to work with him. They worked  on things like team shape. A wasted investment in time and investment. The player was not interested in team, or the running in training or on match day. 

Dziekanowski and team shape. Not interested. Shapes were the glasses in Racks. Cracking bloke off the pitch though.

[Barry Sheene]

I work with a Polish Legia Warsaw mad fan and he sent me this photo of the great man from a recent Legia Old boys game

[BTRFTG]

3 hours ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Nearly 20 minutes long and is the match at Filbert Street

I've related the story here before but to note the assist for Bent's opener came from me, not Jacki. It's the goal I scored for City. If you were there you'll probably still recall my incessant sweet-talking the lino since before kick-off:

"Have a great game lino.... Seen you before, you're very fair, really good.....with us all you need to do is watch Bent...he's so fast nobody'll get near him...." Over and over and over and he was all ears.

And bless him my advice he took, missing that Jacki was miles off when the ball was played through.

You could see the ref's glance querying that he MUST have been off, the lino head shake responding 'No, onside...'

And boy did we take the rise out of him once the goal was given. 

Great day!

 

[Cowshed]

Just now, Robbored said:

Top players can hone their skills for sure but to become as quick footed as Jacki was most of that would been natural ability. He was born with it. Probably didn’t have to practice much either.

Same with JET and Tomlin.

No human comes out of the womb with a natural abilty to play with a football. There is no football dna. None. Footskill is developed by extensive intense practice of the involved motor skills creating muscle and neural memory. The greater the practice and its intensity, the more enlarged the memory, the more myellination occurs.

 

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

No human comes out of the womb with a natural abilty to play with a football. There is no football dna. None. Footskill is developed by extensive intense practice of the involved motor skills creating muscle and neural memory. The greater the practice and its intensity, the more enlarged the memory, the more myellination occurs.

 

I definitely don’t buy that. Why do you suppose that professional footballers sometimes produce sons with the same natural skills if there’s no football DNA?

The Lamapards and the Redknaps are two obvious examples. The Hately’s are another. I’m sure that there are others throughout the game. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Robbored

[oldstandrobin]

14 hours ago, Robbored said:

I posted my honest opinion on Jacki. GrahamC summed him up far better than I did.

Dont worry RR, in ten years time, the kids who are 8 now will be frothing about another wonder we had - Lee Tomlin ( and for what it's worth I was a big Tomlin fan but even I couldn't help the problems he had with LJ)

[Cowshed]

18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I definitely don’t buy that. Why do you suppose that professional footballers sometimes produce sons with the same natural skills if there’s no football DNA?

The Lamapards and the Redknaps are two obvious examples. The Hately’s are another. I’m sure that there are others throughout the game. 

Sometimes. Exactly. Pros will possess a better understanding of the disciplines which they can share with their sons. Role model and education is not DNA.

Do you believe the Brazilians possess a different DNA to produce so many expressive players? Do the Italians possess a defending gene? There is not a football gene. 

You have provided a magnificent example of how intense practice leads to success and the creation of talent leading to skill in Frank Lampard. Lampard was unathletic and his father put him through an extreme training regime. He had no normal childhood. The training was intense, integrated and internalised to a degree where Lampard became an outlier, his shoulder checking for instance is a result of that training leading to greater vision/peripheral vision. He subconsciously does tasks without thinking due to his thousands of hours of training tasks. Its nurture.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Cowshed

[Calculus]

29 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

No human comes out of the womb with a natural abilty to play with a football. There is no football dna. None. Footskill is developed by extensive intense practice of the involved motor skills creating muscle and neural memory. The greater the practice and its intensity, the more enlarged the memory, the more myellination occurs.

 

Is it your contention that with all the intense practice required you could have been as good as Messi?

[Cowshed]

6 minutes ago, Calculus said:

Is it your contention that with all the intense practice required you could have been as good as Messi?

No. Messi did thousands of hours of training with a football before he was five. So with the highly abnormal level of training he recieved during his early years creating a advanced technical base many could develop similar technical abilties.

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Sometimes. Exactly. Pros will possess a better understanding of the disciplines which they can share with their sons. Role model and education is not DNA.

Do you believe the Brazilians possess a different DNA to produce so many expressive players? Do the Italians possess a defending gene? There is not a football gene. 

You have provided a magnificent example of how intense practice leads to success and the creation of talent leading to skill in Frank Lampard. Lampard was unathletic and his father put him through an extreme training regime. He had no normal childhood. The training was intense, integrated and internalised to a degree where Lampard became an outlier, his shoulder checking for instance is a result of that training leading to greater vision/peripheral vision. He subconsciously does tasks without thinking due to his thousands of hours of training tasks. Its nurture.

I accept that nuturing, training, intense practice are all factors but so is the hereditary gene which in my opinion is the most important of them all. If your father was a professional footballer then it’s more likely that you’ll inherit some of his genes than say the son of a bricklayer who never played football to any level.

[oldstandrobin]

9 minutes ago, Calculus said:

Is it your contention that with all the intense practice required you could have been as good as Messi?

I used to practice to be as good as Alec Eisenstrager but could not get the accent right 

[Leveller]

14 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Sometimes. Exactly. Pros will possess a better understanding of the disciplines which they can share with their sons. Role model and education is not DNA.

Do you believe the Brazilians possess a different DNA to produce so many expressive players? Do the Italians possess a defending gene? There is not a football gene. 

You have provided a magnificent example of how intense practice leads to success and the creation of talent leading to skill in Frank Lampard. Lampard was unathletic and his father put him through an extreme training regime. He had no normal childhood. The training was intense, integrated and internalised to a degree where Lampard became an outlier, his shoulder checking for instance is a result of that training leading to greater vision/peripheral vision. He subconsciously does tasks without thinking due to his thousands of hours of training tasks. Its nurture.

Some little lads have innate talent that gets nurtured. Some little lads are naturally clumsy with no ball skill. You can’t nurture ANY lad into a skilled footballer. So yes, there is an an element of varied levels of natural ability.

[forbespm]

15 hours ago, Robbored said:

I have never understood why so many consider Jackl to be some kind of legend. 

No doubt he about his skills but he was a lazy bugger who scored a massive 7 goals for City. Osman left him out one game and announced that ‘a few tricks and a 30yrd shot isn’t enough’

A maverick carried by the rest of the team.

 

Same here.his record wasn't brilliant for us.mind you when you consider his drinking its not a bad record.

I used to struggle in a factory with a hangover doing nothing,not trying to run around for 90 mins

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, Leveller said:

Some little lads have innate talent that gets nurtured. Some little lads are naturally clumsy with no ball skill. You can’t nurture ANY lad into a skilled footballer. So yes, there is an an element of varied levels of natural ability.

I did not say ANY. Any human (virtually) can develop high levels of skills with a football. Ultra skilled freestylers frequently do not become footballers. A clumsy kid with poor motor skills can improve. A reason we train.

 

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I accept that nuturing, training, intense practice are all factors but so is the hereditary gene which in my opinion is the most important of them all. If your father was a professional footballer then it’s more likely that you’ll inherit some of his genes than say the son of a bricklayer who never played football to any level.

Could you identify what this hereditary gene is? Scientists can identify the ACTN speed gene but not a football gene.

I will ask politely again. What herditary gene do these skillful Brazillians have? Do the Italians have a defending gene? Do the Spanish have a passing gene?

 

 

 

[Silvio Dante]

50 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I definitely don’t buy that. Why do you suppose that professional footballers sometimes produce sons with the same natural skills if there’s no football DNA?

The Lamapards and the Redknaps are two obvious examples. The Hately’s are another. I’m sure that there are others throughout the game. 

The Johnson’s

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I did not say ANY. Any human (virtually) can develop high levels of skills with a football. Ultra skilled freestylers frequently do not become footballers. A clumsy kid with poor motor skills can improve. A reason we train.

 

Could you identify what this hereditary gene is? Scientists can identify the ACTN speed gene but not a football gene.

I will ask politely again. What herditary gene do these skillful Brazillians have? Do the Italians have a defending gene? Do the Spanish have a passing gene?

Of course not - but because the gene hasn’t yet been identified doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. it seems to me that it must exist when you see so many sons of professional footballers becoming the same themselves.

[Abraham Romanovich]

25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I accept that nuturing, training, intense practice are all factors but so is the hereditary gene which in my opinion is the most important of them all. If your father was a professional footballer then it’s more likely that you’ll inherit some of his genes than say the son of a bricklayer who never played football to any level.

A bit left field, but as a boy Donald Bradman use to throw a golf ball against a wall and bat it with a stump; so when he got older to hit a cricket ball with a full size bat  became easy for him. 

Pretty sure that constant repetition at a young age hones these skills rather than any inherent DNA ,it's just that if your father is a footballer he is more likely to encourage you than if he was say a motor racing fanatic.

[Cowshed]

Just now, Robbored said:

Of course not - but because the gene hasn’t yet been identified doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. it seems to me that it must exist when you see so many sons of professional footballers becoming the same themselves.

Science identifies genes linked to speed, height, weight, body shape, left/right handedness but your footballer’s gene hasn't been identified because it does not exist. 

Sons of pros. That is a question of mindset and behaviours. A footballer will understand more clearly and be able to provide education to their siblings as to what the necessary behaviours are to develop into a footballer. 

Many footballers do not have sons that become pros. Which highlights a flaw in your theory?

You provided an example of Frank Lampard. Fat Frank as he was labelled should not as a non-mesomorph have become a footballer. Only he did due to an extreme training regime that most would never endure. He applied a growth mindset. 

Another poster highlighted Mesi. Physically blessed? Hardly. He was given growth hormones. He again went through a freakish training regime from incredibly early ages. An extreme training regime that most would never endure.

Ronaldo here we have a physical blessed freak but again his training? He is a training phenom. Taking what he had moving from ecto to his explosive meso-ecto all with a mindset and training regime that is legendary in its extremity = Mindset.  

You swerved x2 the question about nations. The skill of the Brazilians, the defending of the Italians, the Spanish passing is not genetic. Its cultural, its mindset and it’s nurtured by how they train. 

 

[Cowshed]

19 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

A bit left field, but as a boy Donald Bradman use to throw a golf ball against a wall and bat it with a stump; so when he got older to hit a cricket ball with a full size bat  became easy for him. 

Pretty sure that constant repetition at a young age hones these skills rather than any inherent DNA ,it's just that if your father is a footballer he is more likely to encourage you than if he was say a motor racing fanatic.

And training with a tennis ball or a size three ball and moving to a size five does the similar. Do it enough the memory becames larger and permanent. Practice will make permanent. 

Cricketers like tennis players dont have faster reactions. Via their practice they see patterns and understand what is ocurring in a millsecond even subconscioulsy which leads to their response. This also occurs in football. 

 

[East End Old Boy]

16 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

The 'Jacki' name is an alliteration on his surname which is pronounced "Jackanowski". Same as 'Ozzy' Osbourne.

 

 

Shame then that he just didn’t bite heads off bats, instead of drinking vodka!

[Maltshoveller]

16 hours ago, Robbored said:

I have never understood why so many consider Jackl to be some kind of legend. 

No doubt he about his skills but he was a lazy bugger who scored a massive 7 goals for City. Osman left him out one game and announced that ‘a few tricks and a 30yrd shot isn’t enough’

A maverick carried by the rest of the team.

 

Yeah that is 100% how I see him 

 

[Tin Soldier]

Leicester away FA Cup Filbert Street 1992, Nuff said! Andy Cole's book is a good read.

Lots of people have there challenges in life - Jacki was no different, most on here will have them also. Great days following City back in the 80s and 90s.

Edited October 4, 2021 by GasDestroyer

[Bazooka Joe]

He may not have played a huge amount of games for us, but some of the things he did were pure magic and a privilege to behold.

Those magic moments (especially as they have been incredibly rare whilst watching City over many years) will always live long in the memory.

Yes, he liked a drink (as many on here do). But as many friends at the Polish Club in St Pauls Road will vouch, he never played the big "I AM" and was very friendly and approachable.

The demon drink certainly did him no favours, but all idols, such as Jackie, often have faults, just like any other people.

Sto lat Jackie - thanks for those happy memories.

[Portland Bill]

18 hours ago, Robbored said:

I have never understood why so many consider Jackl to be some kind of legend. 

No doubt he about his skills but he was a lazy bugger who scored a massive 7 goals for City. Osman left him out one game and announced that ‘a few tricks and a 30yrd shot isn’t enough’

A maverick carried by the rest of the team.

 

You play bowls, clearly you don’t like ‘any’ excitement in your life

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

You play bowls, clearly you don’t like ‘any’ excitement in your life

You’ve obviously not played bowls if you think the game isn’t exciting. Maybe is dull to watch if you don’t know what’s going on.

As for excitement on the pitch I personally liked to see the likes of Walsh, Smudger, Murray et el running at pace with the ball at defenders. That to me is more thrilling than seeing a maverick showboating and then blazing over from 30yds……….

 

[Bs4Red]

8 hours ago, Northern Red said:

He never played for us in the Championship.

I never said for City but in general. 

Weak mentality always wanted to be a big fish in a small pond. 

 

[TedsHeadIs Red]

In a game, if you try some flicks, long through passes and dramatic overhead bicycle kicks then by the law of averages a few of them will come off over a season and that is what is remembered by those who witness it. You forget the majority of failed attempts.

To be consistently skilled so that it consistently pays off requires practice, practice, practice, practice, practice…..

There is no skill gene.

Edited October 4, 2021 by TedsHeadIs Red

[GrahamC]

8 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

I would say that, to follow Bristol City, myth is pretty vital. The reality is somewhat grey, and disappointing. And Russell Osman.

Allow your imagination to run free a little, every now and again ....

No.

I’d like to imagine us in the top flight, employing a waster who had 5 good games for us then moved to the German second division won’t be the way to ever get us there.

Selling a bloke who went on to score over 100 goals for West Brom to fund the purchase only compounds the stupidity and short term nature of it.

I saw the likes of Cormack, Whitehead, Mann play for us in the top flight, they had flair but also worked for the team.

Russell Osman was in charge of us for what? A year? Total red herring.

[RobintheRed Red]

18 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

He was just before my time. Was he really head and shoulders in terms of ability above the likes of Noble, JET and Tomlin? All three had incredible natural ability but also never delivered on a regular basis. I feel the highlights reel from those three may exceed Jacki, but could well be wrong. 

Interested to know your opinion.... 

Yes all these types of players were a joy to watch on their day but jacki was something else when Andy Cole states one of the best he's played with that should tell you how good he was .

[ralphindevon]

17 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Yes all these types of players were a joy to watch on their day but jacki was something else when Andy Cole states one of the best he's played with that should tell you how good he was .

Agree, I’d say Tomlin was probably closest SKILL wise but none of them would have got 60 caps and 20 international goals even if they qualified for a country like Poland.

I still talk about a back heel flick over an Ipswich defenders head nearly 30 years after it happened. 
Of course he had many failings but with Russel Osman as manager he was never going to get the chance to shine for long.

[RobintheRed Red]

Just now, ralphindevon said:

Agree, I’d say Tomlin was probably closest SKILL wise but none of them would have got 60 caps and 20 international goals even if they qualified for a country like Poland.

I still talk about a back heel flick over an Ipswich defenders head nearly 30 years after it happened. 
Of course he had many failings but with Russel Osman as manager he was never going to get the chance to shine for long.

True mate unfortunately in our time of watching city they don't come along that often with skills like them it was a joy to watch wasnt it .

[Ska Junkie]

13 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

John motson summed up jacki.

He might be from a diffrent country, but he plays like hes from a diffrent planet.

 

It was quite simply the best individual performance I've ever seen from a City player and I go back to 1975. Nobody before or since has even come close. It was truly brilliant!

[ralphindevon]

1 minute ago, Ska Junkie said:

It was quite simply the best individual performance I've ever seen from a City player and I go back to 1975. Nobody before or since has even come close. It was truly brilliant!

It was one of those away days that stays with you.

I got up only to hear the news the game was off, my mate had heard it was on and said we should go anyway, so we did and certainly didn’t regret it.

[spudski]

Can't believe people are comparing Tomlin with Jackie. Wtf

I was in the home end, with many others at Leicester. Jackie was head and shoulders above anyone else that day.

People have to remember we were shit back then. FFS...Andy Llewellyn was playing. 

The whole club was just a bunch of drinkers, Clubbers and chancers.

Cole and Jackie were something else for us. 

You simply can't judge Jackie with others years later. The culture at our club was trash.

Osman was a joke.

 

[Major Isewater]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

People have to remember we were shit back then. FFS...Andy Llewellyn was playing. 

Andy Llewelyn was a steady and dependable full back . He left a bit to be desired as a postman though. 

[Tin Soldier]

21 minutes ago, spudski said:

Can't believe people are comparing Tomlin with Jackie. Wtf

I was in the home end, with many others at Leicester. Jackie was head and shoulders above anyone else that day.

People have to remember we were shit back then. FFS...Andy Llewellyn was playing. 

The whole club was just a bunch of drinkers, Clubbers and chancers.

Cole and Jackie were something else for us. 

You simply can't judge Jackie with others years later. The culture at our club was trash.

Osman was a joke.

 

Leicester away what a day out that was. No one gave us a chance. Thousands went from Bristol, great old ground Filbert Street. Jacki as you state dictated the whole game that day - and Leicester were a good side. Great memories. The ground was semi frozen due to the cold weather, players were falling all over the place, whereas Jackie just drifted across the pitch with full balance and composure. The sign of a quality player. Just watch the YouTube video.

For Andy Cole to credit Jackie, when he played with Cantona etc says it all.

Tomlin, forget him, not even on Jackie’s page. Jackie was that good.

Edited October 4, 2021 by GasDestroyer

[Maltshoveller]

2 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Yes all these types of players were a joy to watch on their day but jacki was something else when Andy Cole states one of the best he's played with that should tell you how good he was .

Yes Jacki was a very talented player in his time

Shame that when he was at City it was not his time

7 Goals, a few tricks and no effort should not make a player a legend 

 

[DaveInSA]

He was an absolute genius with a football.

I laughed and laughed every game he played. He was that good. Ran rings around everyone, including those in a red shirt.

Football isn't all about goals, XGoals, assists and whatnot, it's about having a laugh and witnessing something truly magical.

Thanks Jacki for making some really dreay days at A Gate an absolute delight.

[E.G.Red]

11 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

In the championship?! Don’t think so!

People forget the levels that players play for us at. JET v Jacki isn’t even a debate. Jacki wasn’t here for long but he lit up the championship and fans loved him for it. Kids especially.  JET was good in league one. 

If Jacki had played league one football he would have looked insanely good!

I don’t think you need to necessarily compare players as to who had the most skill , and whether they were suited to league one or the championship. The likes of JET and Jacki provide us entertainment , that one moment that we will remember.

Each moment appreciated for what is was and represented  at the time, not whether one was better than the other.

 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

Can't believe people are comparing Tomlin with Jackie. Wtf

I was in the home end, with many others at Leicester. Jackie was head and shoulders above anyone else that day.

People have to remember we were shit back then. FFS...Andy Llewellyn was playing. 

The whole club was just a bunch of drinkers, Clubbers and chancers.

Cole and Jackie were something else for us. 

You simply can't judge Jackie with others years later. The culture at our club was trash.

Osman was a joke.

 

Couldn’t agree more, any decent amount of time watching City and genuine, wow, skill is found rarely. Jacki had that in abundance, light years ahead of Tomlin and JET and proven at a much higher level. The team he was asked to play in was the equivalent of asking Viv Richards to play with Moreton-in-the-Monster-Mash 4ths. Most exciting player I’ve seen since starting watching in 74/75.

Wouldn’t beat Gow, Super Bob or some others to all time favourite, but would be in my all time starting XI, as every now and then, football can be about joy and thrills, as well as (also very enjoyable) effort and guts. Remember a flick over his head in the penalty area against Ipswich at AG, that no one else I’ve seen for City would have tried (apart from Brian Mitchell). Joy to watch. Still got a couple of ‘Solidarnosc’ t shirts. 
 

[RobintheRed Red]

2 hours ago, Maltshoveller said:

Yes Jacki was a very talented player in his time

Shame that when he was at City it was not his time

7 Goals, a few tricks and no effort should not make a player a legend 

 

Ok look forward to the likes of odowda or Marley watkins type player then  whatever floats your boat .

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 03/10/2021 at 21:45, cidercity1987 said:

Why was he called Jacki when his name is Dariusz?

Because it was pretty much how you pronounced the first syllables of his surname ... 

Edited October 4, 2021 by BS4 on Tour...

[BS4 on Tour...]

7 hours ago, GasDestroyer said:

Leicester away FA Cup Filbert Street 1992....

“Dziekanowski is on another planet” - fantastic from the match commentator ...

[formerly known as ivan]

Without wanting to read through 4 pages to see if this question had been asked or answered…

Why did we only keep him for one season? Was there a reason he left when he did?

[Magicdaps]

When you look at his scoring record it's not exactly been phenomenal or record breaking anywhere he's been, Legia Warsaw perhaps being the exception. 

Regardless of his stats, or (in hindsight for me personally) his shortcomings, as a young lad, who was first taken to AG around 90-91 (with no firm allegiance to City at the time) he's probably the main reason I've been a fan ever since...

He clearly had flaws (professionally and personally) but the fact he's still talked about now speaks volumes for the impact he made on so many, myself very much included.

it may well be a heavy dose of pure nostalgia, viewed through three pairs of rose tinted glasses, but I loved him! 

 

[Oh Louie louie]

The wolves game he came on and ran rings around them deserves a mention.

The second goal was genius.

Replacing those 2 with liam robinson.

Unforgivable.

 

[fanjita]

13 hours ago, Robbored said:

You’ve obviously not played bowls if you think the game isn’t exciting. Maybe is dull to watch if you don’t know what’s going on.

As for excitement on the pitch I personally liked to see the likes of Walsh, Smudger, Murray et el running at pace with the ball at defenders. That to me is more thrilling than seeing a maverick showboating and then blazing over from 30yds……….

 

As a fellow bowls player I totally agree with the first paragraph

[Bristol Oil Services]

14 hours ago, GrahamC said:

No.

I’d like to imagine us in the top flight, employing a waster who had 5 good games for us then moved to the German second division won’t be the way to ever get us there.

Selling a bloke who went on to score over 100 goals for West Brom to fund the purchase only compounds the stupidity and short term nature of it.

 

So it's Bristol City FC you're cross/upset with, more so than Dziekanowski. The people that replaced Joe Jordan with Jimmy Lumsden, amongst other things. Dziekanowski is the symptom of a poorly run club, not the cause.

Lumsden, by the way, moved Bob on because Bob was struggling with the loss of his mother (and so the loss of his form) and Jimmy, with his own unresolved grief, was coming to work to get away from all that. He couldn't be doing with it, not at home and at work, understandably. Is my speculative opinion. 

We did replace Dziekanowski with lots of "effort" and it worked for one season (but shaved a fifth off the average attendance). Then we were relegated.

[BTRFTG]

9 hours ago, Magicdaps said:

When you look at his scoring record it's not exactly been phenomenal or record breaking anywhere he's been, Legia Warsaw perhaps being the exception. 

Many omit that in addition to being a legend at AG he, to this day, is worshipped at Celtic Park. I've lost count of the number of times I've bumped into Celtic fans and when they learn of my allegiance talk turns to but one name and the beers start to flow. Unlike us, Celtic have had some big names and performances but few are more fondly recalled than Jacki's 4 goals (he made their 5th) that night against Partizan. It's talked of as the greatest single display ever up there. Strangely, I've never heard Celtic fans bemoan that he wasn't much of a team player.....wonder why?

[BTRFTG]

4 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

The wolves game he came on and ran rings around them deserves a mention.

The second goal was genius.

Replacing those 2 with liam robinson.

Unforgivable.

 

I hear talk there are Posh fans who to this day think 'Spencer' Robinson is the most prolific goalscorer of all time. Some Clubs Do 'Ave 'Em......

[Davefevs]

23 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

That night Cole scored, missed a couple of self-created sitters and spent the remainder openly berating his colleagues at their ineptitude and inability to play the quick and easy ball to him. Open animosity on the park the likes of which rarely seen. Jacki was the only City player on his plane, save he was on the terrace

Different era, but remember “Offside-Kodjia”?  Didn’t run offside when Tomlin came here on loan.  That ability to spot a pass and execute a pass quickly made such a difference to Kodjia.

I saw Jacki twice.  I played Saturdays so in a rainy winter I got to go to Leicester and Forest cup games.  He was a massively talented player.  Whether he did or didn’t do it week in week out I don’t know, but at Filbert Street he was from another planet.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Of course Jacki was one of a long line of players who was a law unto himself and almost unmanageable.  Football history is littered with them:  Frank Worthington, Stan Bowles, Balotelli, etc.  Modern managers have developed the capability to understand how you play such players, and modern football styles suit such players better.  There’s another thread at the moment about Tomlin, who was exactly the same but without Jacki’s charm.  He drove a succession of managers almost insane and it was hardly surprising that a novice like Russell Osman couldn’t deal with him.  The team, the style, the formation, everything had to be built round him, and even then he would have done what he liked (I remember him saying once that he simply didn’t tackle back, it was not in his game).  Wonderfully talented, of course, and fondly remember for the good times, but I remember a lot of games when he was virtually an observer, and another when he could have scored six but missed the lot (ITV did a montage of those misses to the soundtrack of ‘Unbelievable’ by EMF).

[beaverface]

I was there at the old Den when Ray Atteveld scored that amazing volleyed own goal.

 

Even when losing that game, I still felt that we'd get back into it because the the strike force we had that day just seemed to cut through Millwall like a hot knife through butter. I'm pretty sure that we had Cole, Rosenior, Jackie and Allison that day. Pretty much a lethal combination as you had the pace, the power, the skills, the finishing and the heading ability (Rosenior was immense in the air). I don't think we've had such an amazing front line since that day.

As someone else mentioned, the likes of Gus Caesar in defence didn't do us any good.

 

edit: I just googled the squad from that year. Jeeze, what a strike force we had that season. We also had Bob Taylor, Nicky Morgan, Terry Connor, and not to mention the wingers, with Donowa, Smith, Gavin, Junior Bent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991–92_Bristol_City_F.C._season

We must have been so close to getting that right.

edit2: Personally I also thought at the time that Denis Smith was let go too early.

[ThreeWordCityNerd]

30 minutes ago, beaverface said:

Jeeze, what a strike force we had that season.

but crap defence

[Super]

He was very good to watch in fairness like a poor Matt Le Tissier. I doubt he would be in this team now with Pearson in charge.

[shelts]

All about opinion I suppose.  For me the most naturally gifted footballer I’ve seen don our red .  I couldn’t take my eyes off the man. My old man loved him and after Osman sent him packing my old man never set foot in Ashton Gate again. 
His stats ain’t great and he was here not for long but it was enough for me . Andrew Cole would be a judge of a good player . Names my eldest son after him. 

[The Gasbuster]

1 hour ago, ThreeWordCityNerd said:

but crap defence

Yep Cole & Jacki up front but Brian “FFS” Mitchell at the back.

Best City attack I have seen, playing on the same pitch as the worst defence.

[beaverface]

Just now, The Gasbuster said:

Yep Cole & Jacki up front but Brian “FFS” Mitchell at the back.

Best City attack I have seen, playing on the same pitch as the worst defence.

Weirdly, this link doesn't have Brian Mitchell in the squad at that time...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991–92_Bristol_City_F.C._season

[beaverface]

52 minutes ago, shelts said:

All about opinion I suppose.  For me the most naturally gifted footballer I’ve seen don our red .  I couldn’t take my eyes off the man. My old man loved him and after Osman sent him packing my old man never set foot in Ashton Gate again. 
His stats ain’t great and he was here not for long but it was enough for me . Andrew Cole would be a judge of a good player . Names my eldest son after him. 

I think the drop in crowds, to probably the lowest they ever got during the 90's and beyond told it's own story on how Osman was rated. I'm pretty sure he's the only player I've heard boo'ed when he scored also, such was the strength of feeling after he let Jackie go.

[The Gasbuster]

Just now, beaverface said:

Weirdly, this link doesn't have Brian Mitchell in the squad at that time...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991–92_Bristol_City_F.C._season

I always think of the first game the following season, City v Portsmouth.

An incredible game that ended 3-3. We were brilliant going forward with Cole and Jacki, but utter dogshit at the back.

[italian dave]

15 hours ago, Magicdaps said:

When you look at his scoring record it's not exactly been phenomenal or record breaking anywhere he's been, Legia Warsaw perhaps being the exception. 

Regardless of his stats, or (in hindsight for me personally) his shortcomings, as a young lad, who was first taken to AG around 90-91 (with no firm allegiance to City at the time) he's probably the main reason I've been a fan ever since...

He clearly had flaws (professionally and personally) but the fact he's still talked about now speaks volumes for the impact he made on so many, myself very much included.

it may well be a heavy dose of pure nostalgia, viewed through three pairs of rose tinted glasses, but I loved him! 

 

 

38 minutes ago, shelts said:

All about opinion I suppose.  For me the most naturally gifted footballer I’ve seen don our red .  I couldn’t take my eyes off the man. My old man loved him and after Osman sent him packing my old man never set foot in Ashton Gate again. 
His stats ain’t great and he was here not for long but it was enough for me . Andrew Cole would be a judge of a good player . Names my eldest son after him. 

Exactly this. He was a player people went to football to watch. (I remember meeting someone who wasn't even a City fan but came up from Plymouth regularly to watch him at AG). He was the reason people fell in love with football.  Osman's dislike and eventual despatch of him (Osman was player manager at the time) was one of the reasons Osman became the only City player I can recall who got boo-ed when he scored a goal!

Bit like your old man, Shelts, I stopped my membership of the City Society - or whatever it was called then - when Osman sent him packing and have never got round to rejoining since. 

As @beaverface says, we had some games when Jacki and Andy Cole were joined by the likes of Rosenior and Atteveld and boy, we might have been unpredictable, but we were good to watch!

I agree, and as the OP says, Andy Cole would be a good judge of a player, and has played alongside a good few very top names. It was a long time ago, but as I recall the two of them built up an understanding remarkably quickly, given the short time they played together. And maybe as much as scoring goals Jacki was a creator who plates like Andy Cole need around them.

And, we are talking about a player who played 60 times for his country, scoring 20 goals (and not some third rate country). Who played in European club competitions. Who scored a goal every 3 games at both international and (top) club level. Yet - according to some - not good enough for Bristol City!

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

24 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said:

I always think of the first game the following season, City v Portsmouth.

An incredible game that ended 3-3. We were brilliant going forward with Cole and Jacki, but utter dogshit at the back.

The defence came in for a lot of stick that season, and perhaps justifiably so, but they say that defence starts at the front, and I don’t think our front line felt that defending was much to do with them…

[Cowshed]

44 minutes ago, italian dave said:

 

Exactly this. He was a player people went to football to watch. (I remember meeting someone who wasn't even a City fan but came up from Plymouth regularly to watch him at AG). He was the reason people fell in love with football.  Osman's dislike and eventual despatch of him (Osman was player manager at the time) was one of the reasons Osman became the only City player I can recall who got boo-ed when he scored a goal!

Bit like your old man, Shelts, I stopped my membership of the City Society - or whatever it was called then - when Osman sent him packing and have never got round to rejoining since. 

As @beaverface says, we had some games when Jacki and Andy Cole were joined by the likes of Rosenior and Atteveld and boy, we might have been unpredictable, but we were good to watch!

I agree, and as the OP says, Andy Cole would be a good judge of a player, and has played alongside a good few very top names. It was a long time ago, but as I recall the two of them built up an understanding remarkably quickly, given the short time they played together. And maybe as much as scoring goals Jacki was a creator who plates like Andy Cole need around them.

And, we are talking about a player who played 60 times for his country, scoring 20 goals (and not some third rate country). Who played in European club competitions. Who scored a goal every 3 games at both international and (top) club level. Yet - according to some - not good enough for Bristol City!

And the player who left wasn't good enough to command a starting place in the teams he joined either. 

[Dolman Block B]

On 03/10/2021 at 21:40, Robbored said:

I have never understood why so many consider Jackl to be some kind of legend. 

No doubt he about his skills but he was a lazy bugger who scored a massive 7 goals for City. Osman left him out one game and announced that ‘a few tricks and a 30yrd shot isn’t enough’

A maverick carried by the rest of the team.

 

You of course are kidding Alan?

Jacki was without doubt one of the best talents i have ever seen in my 40 plus years following City.

He could turn a game on a sixpence and he had what many aint got nowadays is flare and passion.

He was loved by us fans, and will always live in our hearts as one of our finest ever players.