MJP3 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Some may find this interesting. (Now over to @DaveFevs to tell us what it means.) https://eflanalysis.com/analysis/andreas-weimann-bristol-city-efl-championship-2021-22-data-stats-analysis 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 He’s decent 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 The AndRenaissance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 “Bristol City usually play in a 3-5-2 formation”. Is that what the stats are telling them?! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP3 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 37 minutes ago, Davefevs said: He’s decent Clear and Concise. I like that. If only they'd make it that simple. think of all the time we'd save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Have we paid Andi yet for using this data? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTeamInBristol Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 It shows what a lot of us have known for a while now, that he is one of, if not the most important outfield player. Much worse team when he doesn't play. 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 I love Andreas Weimann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 50 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: “Bristol City usually play in a 3-5-2 formation”. Is that what the stats are telling them?! That really annoyed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, Davefevs said: That really annoyed me. I lost respect for the article after that! Weimann has his pros and cons. Not surprised he ‘stats well’ as stats often focus on the positives and ignore the negatives. There are a lot fewer negative stats compiled and analysed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: I lost respect for the article after that! Weimann has his pros and cons. Not surprised he ‘stats well’ as stats often focus on the positives and ignore the negatives. There are a lot fewer negative stats compiled and analysed. The joy of stats….use the ones that suit your argument He doesn’t stat particularly well in the basic stuff I can get hold of. https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/fevsfootballanalytics/viz/EFLChampionshipForwards2021-22/SCATDuels The key to Weimann “quality” is the more physical / locational stats, e.g. not just how much he runs, but where he runs, where he receives balls, wins balls, etc. You have to a lot lower level data extraction to see that. I can do game by game for 1 player at a time, but it takes a while….and I want to do it for 538 players who’ve played in the Champ this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said: Have we paid Andi yet for using this data? Just wondering what @Davefevs will be charging Otib at the end of the season! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: The joy of stats….use the ones that suit your argument He doesn’t stat particularly well in the basic stuff I can get hold of. https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/fevsfootballanalytics/viz/EFLChampionshipForwards2021-22/SCATDuels The key to Weimann “quality” is the more physical / locational stats, e.g. not just how much he runs, but where he runs, where he receives balls, wins balls, etc. You have to a lot lower level data extraction to see that. I can do game by game for 1 player at a time, but it takes a while….and I want to do it for 538 players who’ve played in the Champ this season. As you know, I have my issues with xG but do look at general stats although putting them secondary to what my eyes see most of the time. However, I do agree that there could be a lot more of the nuanced stats communicated and mass collated. What really grinds my gears is the ‘he’s got 0/10 assists so he must be crap/brilliant’ arguments which hold zero weight in my opinion! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 It’s interesting that the first heat map shows that he plays a lot on the right and in midfield, which is what most supporters would agree with. Yet, he is supposed to be a second forward with Martin and has managed to score 4 goals from hardly getting into the penalty area (if the heat map is to be believed). Logic would be that he should play more in the middle, closer to the penalty area, or have I missed something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarksRobin Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 5 hours ago, Davefevs said: He’s decent Unusually concise. You alright Dave? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judda Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Qote. You use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post. For support rather than illumination. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 15 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: The AndRenaissance. The Weimannaissance surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 1 hour ago, lukebcfc1989 said: Top player at this level and long over due a 20 goal season, worse players at this level have done so in the past. Aaron Wilbraham took years to finally reach that milestone hopefully this can be a similar season for him. Weimann will never score 20 goals per season. Not that type of player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, lukebcfc1989 said: I disagree I think he has always looked dangerous when given a run up front, deceptively good in the air witnessed a few goals from corners and his composure is also great goal against Derby away sticks in my memory not forgetting the Hat Trick at Sheffield United. He is capable I think. His composure is generally poor. He has examples of good composure for sure but in the main it is poor. He won’t score 20 goals as he isn’t a natural striker. If he could score 20 goals then one of his many former managers would have played him up front Edited October 14, 2021 by And Its Smith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEd73 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, lukebcfc1989 said: I disagree I think he has always looked dangerous when given a run up front, deceptively good in the air witnessed a few goals from corners and his composure is also great goal against Derby away sticks in my memory not forgetting the Hat Trick at Sheffield United. He is capable I think. I love Andi. But for me his composure is very inconsistent. For every "Derby" there's 4 or 5 wild whacks into row M. This inconsistency is why he's with us and not a club higher up the food chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 17 hours ago, And Its Smith said: “Bristol City usually play in a 3-5-2 formation”. Is that what the stats are telling them?! That made me laugh……….. Nige says he likes 4-4-2 and that’s how they line up at ko. Then it changes……..depending if City are in or out of possession. Im not one who looks at the team sheet and predicts that it’s a 3-5-2 or a 4-3-3. I just see 4 defenders, 4 midfielders and two forwards. Then I watch the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaissance Williams Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 17 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: The AndRenaissance. I demand compensation for name misuse……… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 1 hour ago, And Its Smith said: His composure is generally poor. He has examples of good composure for sure but in the main it is poor. He won’t score 20 goals as he isn’t a natural striker. If he could score 20 goals then one of his many former managers would have played him up front A lot of his goals are where he doesnt have time to think, but reacts instinctively. Had it been him, instead of Wells, running through on goal against QPR odds on he would have crocked it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 49 minutes ago, Robbored said: That made me laugh……….. Nige says he likes 4-4-2 and that’s how they line up at ko. Then it changes……..depending if City are in or out of possession. Im not one who looks at the team sheet and predicts that it’s a 3-5-2 or a 4-3-3. I just see 4 defenders, 4 midfielders and two forwards. Then I watch the game. Not in every game though. They have lined up in 352 (and 3412) in the matches against QPR and Millwall. You would not have seen 4 defenders, 4 midfielders in those two games. You trot this out every time formations are mentioned. Nor does it change depending on whether City are in and out of possession….it changes due to the fluidity of the game, the position of the ball on the pitch, the position of ours and their players and the dynamics between each of those. That’s fine if you only want to view the game at such a basic level, but what we are discussing here is that the writer has got it wrong….and even if Nige dies prefer 442, he doesn’t always set up that way at the start or end of games. In fact Nige has said he’d really like to play 433 but he doesn’t have the players for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 17 hours ago, OneTeamInBristol said: It shows what a lot of us have known for a while now, that he is one of, if not the most important outfield player. Much worse team when he doesn't play. The season was over in terms of a top half finish as soon as he was injured last season. Our best player by a country mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 14 hours ago, pongo88 said: It’s interesting that the first heat map shows that he plays a lot on the right and in midfield, which is what most supporters would agree with. Yet, he is supposed to be a second forward with Martin and has managed to score 4 goals from hardly getting into the penalty area (if the heat map is to be believed). Logic would be that he should play more in the middle, closer to the penalty area, or have I missed something? He indeed should be playing as the 2nd striker and should be the first name on the team sheet in that position - IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 1 hour ago, VT05763 said: The season was over in terms of a top half finish as soon as he was injured last season. Our best player by a country mile. This shows he is overrated! I would debate he’s our best player let alone by a country mile!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 35 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: This shows he is overrated! I would debate he’s our best player let alone by a country mile!! I would say HNM is our best player. Weimann might be one of, if not the most important players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 58 minutes ago, lukebcfc1989 said: Like Bobby Reid? I’m not sure what you mean. You might have to elaborate. Hopefully you aren’t implying that Weimann is as good as Reid! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_eastender Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Weimann is massively overrated, good honest pro, but nowhere near as good or important to us as many on here make out. He has played mainly in support of Martin this season, and has played almost all minutes in all games, but has only managed to find the net in 2 out of 11 games, albeit both those games were both with important braces. I doubt he will ever contribute more than 12 goals a season. Last few games he has been poor, and I'd much prefer to see Wells start in his place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 In your opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 51 minutes ago, lukebcfc1989 said: The fact that a player that has not yet scored 15-20 league goals in a single season before …can; if backed and played in the position that will make it realistic. I think he could I think there’s a reason he will never be played as a striker consistently in his entire career… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 1 hour ago, old_eastender said: Weimann is massively overrated, good honest pro, but nowhere near as good or important to us as many on here make out. He has played mainly in support of Martin this season, and has played almost all minutes in all games, but has only managed to find the net in 2 out of 11 games, albeit both those games were both with important braces. I doubt he will ever contribute more than 12 goals a season. Last few games he has been poor, and I'd much prefer to see Wells start in his place. Agree with most of this. One thing I really struggle with in a player is inconsistency. Palmer, Weimann, Hunt when he was here….people remember the great bits a lot longer than they remember the rubbish bits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 58 minutes ago, lukebcfc1989 said: The fact that a player that has not yet scored 15-20 league goals in a single season before …can; if backed and played in the position that will make it realistic. I think he could I agree. Scored 5 in 5 when played central at the beginning of the 18/19 season. Would have liked to see him stay there. Oh well. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norn Iron Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 7 hours ago, downendcity said: A lot of his goals are where he doesnt have time to think, but reacts instinctively. Had it been him, instead of Wells, running through on goal against QPR odds on he would have crocked it up. And yet your first sentence was what happened. He reacted instinctively by using the outside of his boot to make a 40 odd yard pass for Nahki to score the winner at QPR. The 2 defenders had no chance cutting out the pass. Sublime, magnificent and a pass to grace any world stage let alone ours. It was a privilege to see that pass and subsequent finish, standing behind the goal that day. I'd be interested to know who else could have made a perfect pass for the oncoming Nahki. Go to 8 mins for multi camera replays of this goal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Interesting comments above. FWIW, I think he’s a good player, and important to our “team”. That doesn’t make him a brilliant player individually per se, but we saw last season what we missed when he was out. I don’t think we have any brilliant players in our squad at all btw. He’s not always aesthetically pleasing, can appear rushed at times, yet on other occasions is hugely composed. He brings intensity to the “collective” (Nige word) and we are lacking that when he doesn’t play. I think it is too easy to say he played well against Reading and Cardiff for example…because those were games he scored in. Easy to forget contributions in games where he didn’t score. He’s had 1 of 2 below par games this season too, but so has everyone. It’s gonna happen. Between him and Martin they’ve scored 8 goals in 11 league games….add in Wells odd minutes and it’s 9 in 11. I don’t think it matters too much who gets them, whether they get them in batches or not. So quoting he’s only scored in 2 of 11 games (or hasn’t scored in 9 of 11) doesn’t worry me that much….they contributed towards 6 points. Ive often said that if you just spent all 90 minutes watching Weimann, you’d see different things. He’s purposeful in what he does. He drags players out of position for the benefit of others for example. If you just watch what he does when the ball is in his possession or challenging for possession, you get a very shallow view of what he is about. Opposition defenders know his threat. I don’t think he’s a 20-goal striker, but I do think if you play him through the middle every game you’d have more chance of him getting circa 15….that’s pretty good in a middle-eight team. We aren’t a team that scores heavily are we? I’m not here to try and change people’s opinion, but he’d start most games for me. When you add Weimann’s intensity alongside Massengo, Williams pace and tanacity etc, couple it with James’s nous, it gives us a strong core for the front 6, depending on how you perm them (they don’t have to play every game). Ultimately Nige is building a team, you need team players for that, and Andreas Weimann is one of those. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 36 minutes ago, Norn Iron said: And yet your first sentence was what happened. He reacted instinctively by using the outside of his boot to make a 40 odd yard pass for Nahki to score the winner at QPR. The 2 defenders had no chance cutting out the pass. Sublime, magnificent and a pass to grace any world stage let alone ours. It was a privilege to see that pass and subsequent finish, standing behind the goal that day. I'd be interested to know who else could have made a perfect pass for the oncoming Nahki. Go to 8 mins for multi camera replays of this goal. I completely agree. It seems that in most aspects of his game his instinctive reactions are great, whether that be taking chances in the box or seeing and making a killer pass. Give him loads of time to play with and it seems that all too often he takes too long and the moment or chance has gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 12 hours ago, And Its Smith said: This shows he is overrated! I would debate he’s our best player let alone by a country mile!! I respect your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, And Its Smith said: His composure is generally poor. He has examples of good composure for sure but in the main it is poor. He won’t score 20 goals as he isn’t a natural striker. If he could score 20 goals then one of his many former managers would have played him up front His hatrick goal away at The Blades was the epitome of ‘composure’ - and here’s a zillion more examples of his ‘composure’ and goal scoring prowess when played up front ... you may note that these examples include goals away at both Liverpool and Arsenal ... Edited October 14, 2021 by BS4 on Tour... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, And Its Smith said: I’m not sure what you mean. You might have to elaborate. Hopefully you aren’t implying that Weimann is as good as Reid! Twice as good ... why do you think Reid is better than Weimann, what do you base that on? Edited October 14, 2021 by BS4 on Tour... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, old_eastender said: Weimann is massively overrated, good honest pro, but nowhere near as good or important to us as many on here make out. He has played mainly in support of Martin this season, and has played almost all minutes in all games, but has only managed to find the net in 2 out of 11 games, albeit both those games were both with important braces. I doubt he will ever contribute more than 12 goals a season. Last few games he has been poor, and I'd much prefer to see Wells start in his place. ...only Bristol City fans would slag off our top scorer! Edited October 14, 2021 by BS4 on Tour... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 38 minutes ago, VT05763 said: I respect your opinion. I wouldn’t!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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