O’Dowda

[hinsleburg]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good post.  As you say, Tanner and Dasilva gave us something second half.

O’Dowda hasn’t played in centre midfield for Ireland for some time. And then it tended to be a 352 (CM in a 3). By my reckoning it was 2018 v Denmark under Martin O’Neill.

Tuesdays team selection will be very interesting. 

Yeah I knew it hadn't been for a while but didn't expect that long!

[ohhhshauntaylor]

I think the main frustration with COD comes from what he clearly can do. Purely from his build/attributes he should be someone really exciting who excels at this level. We see bits in the training videos of him beating players, scoring/assisting, he looks strong, quick, direct…. This maybe answers why he is constantly selected. 
But when he actually plays, he is a timid, weak, “safe” player. 
 

As much as he has been picked by all managers, he has never really nailed down a position, and he usually has 2-3 good games maximum per season (that’s a fact, and his stats back that up) 

He doesn’t create lots of goals, he doesn’t score lots of goals, he’s not a great outlet at carrying the ball forward, he doesn’t track back and help the team (remember Norwich away when LJ publicly stated this after his wonder goal in that game) 

 

I think he’s had more than enough chances, he’s had more than enough time to develop and become consistent, but he hasn’t, and sadly it doesn’t look like he ever will here. 
 

Because he doesn’t have assist/goal threat, you sadly can’t accommodate him in a team, Eliasson for example is far easier to justify based on him delivering as many assists in 1 season, as COD has in 6 years.  
 

 

[Davefevs]

Nutshell. 

[ohhhshauntaylor]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nutshell. 

And I think Nige has now seen this, and probably lost his patience with COD. 

[1960maaan]

16 minutes ago, hinsleburg said:

Not really sure what to make of COD yesterday, as alluded to you could argue he was our only bright spot offensively  but his off the  ball work was horrendous.

Ultimately, whilst it eventually backfired with King, I would have said the sub and change of shape actually worked. Dasilva and Tanner playing more advanced then became pretty much our only attacking outlet and any half chances came from them.

Think COD suffers on here with same issue Pack had on here where people are so strong in their views. Those that rate him really rate him and vice versa, for me he lands somewhere in the middle. A bang average midfielder and if we want to progress cannot be first choice but could do a role as a 'squad player'.

Part of me would like to see him play in the middle like he does for Ireland and if King/Williams aee out and HNM not fit we could see that...

I would have liked COD to have been given 10 minutes as WB/LMF when we went 3 at the back. While he has done OK in CMF at times, I don't think he gets in ahead of Jakes, King, Williams, Masengo, possibly even Palmer & Bakinson. On the left of a front 3 (or right as I know some prefer) but I don't think we look good with a front 3 ATM. 
I think that the fact we were so bad to a man, made NP make the 2nd change when he did, try to shake the rest up? Who knows really. I would have liked to be able to beef up the midfield, the options we had wouldn't have done that, and that's a worry for Tuesday. 
With Williams' history, the way King pulled up, the complete absence of HNM ? Doesn't bode well. Add Bakers who would be a natural change to a 3 and those old injury worries are reappearing. 

A good point @ohhhshauntaylor makes about COD being timid. If he took a lesson from HNM and built up, he'd be knocking player over like his build looks like he should. I think he might get a start in MF by default Vs Forest, but IMO his days are numbered unless he shows Nige a lot more.

[ohhhshauntaylor]

4 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I would have liked COD to have been given 10 minutes as WB/LMF when we went 3 at the back. While he has done OK in CMF at times, I don't think he gets in ahead of Jakes, King, Williams, Masengo, possibly even Palmer & Bakinson. On the left of a front 3 (or right as I know some prefer) but I don't think we look good with a front 3 ATM. 
I think that the fact we were so bad to a man, made NP make the 2nd change when he did, try to shake the rest up? Who knows really. I would have liked to be able to beef up the midfield, the options we had wouldn't have done that, and that's a worry for Tuesday. 
With Williams' history, the way King pulled up, the complete absence of HNM ? Doesn't bode well. Add Bakers who would be a natural change to a 3 and those old injury worries are reappearing. 

A good point @ohhhshauntaylor makes about COD being timid. If he took a lesson from HNM and built up, he'd be knocking player over like his build looks like he should. I think he might get a start in MF by default Vs Forest, but IMO his days are numbered unless he shows Nige a lot more.

I think he has the stature and build that he is already “beefed up” but he’s just weak/timid. I don’t think you can coach that into someone. 

[1960maaan]

Just now, ohhhshauntaylor said:

I think he has the stature and build that he is already “beefed up” but he’s just weak/timid. I don’t think you can coach that into someone. 

You might be right in that he doesn't seem to have that desire, that HNM clearly does. I still think he seems to lack that 'strength' to hold player off easily. Of course it may be inner strength he lacks.

[RedRock]

11 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Why does he get picked by every manager he’s ever worked with? Maybe he’s better than some believe. He’s not sat in the reserves for 5 years. Yes he’s had injuries but when fit he has been picked 

I think you’ve missed a key word out there…. picked by every failed manager…oh, and don’t forget our failure of a CEO, who bizarrely awarded him a lucrative, extended contract…. even when those with the most basic of football knowledge knew it was rank stupidity. 
 

This era of building a team of ‘good humans’ at City must be ending soon, and it can’t come fast enough.

[steviestevieneville]

15 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Can I go slightly against the grain. I think defensively he was poor, but offensively he was our only outlet first half. Made a few good runs, and put on a more than acceptable chance for Wells that he blazed wide.

What summed up COD for me was when he made a driving run, got fouled and earns a free kick in a good position but didn’t beat the front man when taking.

I know he’s not popular, but he at least looked like getting us on the front foot.

That lasted two minutes. He made two runs . The one he got the corner from he had plenty of time to get the ball in but yet again tied himself into knots. He’s a legend in his own head. I’ve never rated him & was amazed he got a new contract. I’ll be equally amazed if he’s here next season. Nowhere near championship quality. 

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, RedRock said:

I think you’ve missed a key word out there…. picked by every failed manager…oh, and don’t forget our failure of a CEO, who bizarrely awarded him a lucrative, extended contract…. even when those with the most basic of football knowledge knew it was rank stupidity. 
 

This era of building a team of ‘good humans’ at City must be ending soon, and it can’t come fast enough.

Picked by managers who know a lot more about the game than me and you at club and international level. 

[2015]

I didn't think he was the worst we had out there in the first half yesterday but I do think he is a poor player

What will annoy me is he is the sort of player who will go to another Championship club and do well for them, when he has been pretty poor for City.

[One Team]

52 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

I think the main frustration with COD comes from what he clearly can do. Purely from his build/attributes he should be someone really exciting who excels at this level. We see bits in the training videos of him beating players, scoring/assisting, he looks strong, quick, direct…. This maybe answers why he is constantly selected. 
But when he actually plays, he is a timid, weak, “safe” player. 
 

As much as he has been picked by all managers, he has never really nailed down a position, and he usually has 2-3 good games maximum per season (that’s a fact, and his stats back that up) 

He doesn’t create lots of goals, he doesn’t score lots of goals, he’s not a great outlet at carrying the ball forward, he doesn’t track back and help the team (remember Norwich away when LJ publicly stated this after his wonder goal in that game) 

 

I think he’s had more than enough chances, he’s had more than enough time to develop and become consistent, but he hasn’t, and sadly it doesn’t look like he ever will here. 
 

Because he doesn’t have assist/goal threat, you sadly can’t accommodate him in a team, Eliasson for example is far easier to justify based on him delivering as many assists in 1 season, as COD has in 6 years.  
 

 

Out of likes here but you have absolutely nailed it here for me. 

[One Team]

25 minutes ago, RedRock said:

I think you’ve missed a key word out there…. picked by every failed manager…oh, and don’t forget our failure of a CEO, who bizarrely awarded him a lucrative, extended contract…. even when those with the most basic of football knowledge knew it was rank stupidity. 
 

This era of building a team of ‘good humans’ at City must be ending soon, and it can’t come fast enough.

Again out of likes but completely agree. 

I had hoped he was going out the door in the summer with the other family feel/good humans but alas not. 

[ohhhshauntaylor]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

If O'Dowda is physically weak then I hate to imagine what words would describe the likes of Weimann, Paterson, and other physically weaker wide men we have had over the years.

Weimann and Paterson both effect/effected the games with goals and assists- you can take their physicality and accept it vs what they offer you. 
 

it’s also not a comparison, COD is built differently to AW & JP. 
 

[RedRock]

30 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Picked by managers who know a lot more about the game than me and you at club and international level. 

OK. Johnson, Holden didn’t prove me wrong. Certainly, ‘Mr Football’, Mark Ashton, didn’t. 
 

I wonder if Nige will persist? I like Nige. I really hope he does prove me wrong, I really do, both for his and CODs sake. 
 

Ireland, on a tailspin of a downward spiral, I’ve no idea who their manager is/was…. is he in their current squad of third rate players? Possibly, but no great shakes if he is quite frankly. 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

Notwithstanding his own challenges, Williams appears to have quite similar physical attributes to O’Dowda, strong but athletic. But his (Joe’s) ability to impose himself on opponents is like night and day with Callum’s. As others have said COD appears to be one of those classic cases of all the attributes, but for whatever reason is unable to make the most of them. Suspect NP patience running out rapidly. 

[pongo88]

16 hours ago, Banjo Red said:

Move on

What - CoD move to another club? Good idea 

13 hours ago, Bernard Lerring said:

Why has COD been paid by us for 5ish years. How many other players get that much time to prove they're bang average?

Nice way to earn a living I guess!

I don’t think he’ll be earning a living with City for much longer with Nigel as manager. 

11 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Class 

Good two seconds. What about the other 44 minutes and 58 seconds of the first half?

Edited October 17, 2021 by pongo88

[ohhhshauntaylor]

25 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

But it means that O'Dowda is better in physical duels than those players.

As for people saying he lacks aggression. Well compared to Joe Williams, yes. How many really aggressive players have we had over the years. Hard to think of that many.

But I'd say he's more aggressive than some. He made a hard sliding challenge on a Peterborough player that was wrongly given as a foul. Nothing particularly special about it, but I can't see how he can go in any harder. He also jumps and competes well in his aerial duels. For example he was defending corners last season very well.

We have even had centre halves who have so little aggression. I think we can all agree that is one position where they really do have to aggressively win balls. Magnússon was very weak in the challenge and Hegeler looked like he really didn't fancy it. The most timid 6 foot 4 giant of a footballer you will ever see.

So I think fair enough if people want O'Dowda to become a more aggressive player that smashes into players like Joe Williams. But I would then expect all the others that also aren't super aggressive to be criticised in the same way, which generally they are not.

I don’t think we all want him today start being someone who dives into tackles etc, I think we all just want to see him have positive impacts on the game! 
 

for his size, build, and attributes, he should do far far more than he does. 
He should be more direct, braver on the ball, and supply more chances- it’s frustrating as we know he can (1-2 times a season) do this, but for where we are, and where we want to be he needs to be doing it far more often. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I would have liked COD to have been given 10 minutes as WB/LMF when we went 3 at the back. While he has done OK in CMF at times, I don't think he gets in ahead of Jakes, King, Williams, Masengo, possibly even Palmer & Bakinson. On the left of a front 3 (or right as I know some prefer) but I don't think we look good with a front 3 ATM. 
I think that the fact we were so bad to a man, made NP make the 2nd change when he did, try to shake the rest up? Who knows really. I would have liked to be able to beef up the midfield, the options we had wouldn't have done that, and that's a worry for Tuesday. 
With Williams' history, the way King pulled up, the complete absence of HNM ? Doesn't bode well. Add Bakers who would be a natural change to a 3 and those old injury worries are reappearing. 

A good point @ohhhshauntaylor makes about COD being timid. If he took a lesson from HNM and built up, he'd be knocking player over like his build looks like he should. I think he might get a start in MF by default Vs Forest, but IMO his days are numbered unless he shows Nige a lot more.

OhShaun beat me too it.

1 hour ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

I think he has the stature and build that he is already “beefed up” but he’s just weak/timid. I don’t think you can coach that into someone. 

He has a fantastic physique, just no clue how to use it.

36 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

But it means that O'Dowda is better in physical duels than those players.

As for people saying he lacks aggression. Well compared to Joe Williams, yes. How many really aggressive players have we had over the years. Hard to think of that many.

But I'd say he's more aggressive than some. He made a hard sliding challenge on a Peterborough player that was wrongly given as a foul. Nothing particularly special about it, but I can't see how he can go in any harder. He also jumps and competes well in his aerial duels. For example he was defending corners last season very well.

We have even had centre halves who have so little aggression. I think we can all agree that is one position where they really do have to aggressively win balls. Magnússon was very weak in the challenge and Hegeler looked like he really didn't fancy it. The most timid 6 foot 4 giant of a footballer you will ever see.

So I think fair enough if people want O'Dowda to become a more aggressive player that smashes into players like Joe Williams. But I would then expect all the others that also aren't super aggressive to be criticised in the same way, which generally they are not.

For every example you find of Callum doing something physical, I’ll find you countless others of where he completely fails to use his athletic build to his advantage.  A dangled leg on the touchline on halfway yesterday, a header on the edge of the box against a shorter opponent that he loses because he jumps with no thought to body position of himself or where his opponent is jumping from, a push off the ball by Stacey.  At times he looks completely startled at what he’s up against.

He has some serious flaws in his overall game, and yet has talent….but shows it sporadically.  What is your response to the numerous times he allowed Stacey to run off him.  Give his performance yesterday some balance, please.  

We can highlight a little flick first time….jeez he’s a championship level pro, they can all do that.

Compare him to Paterson is not really selling him very well is it.  The most lightweight player ever!

Weimann isn’t strong, but knows how to shield, knows how to get his arm across his man, knows how to press with intent, how to cut off a passing lane.

Yesterday his all-round performance got him hooked at h/t.  Nige (club interview - I’ve only just heard it) said he made changes for both shape and personnel.

I don’t have a problem with fans liking certain players more than others, we all have a bit of unconscious bias, but yesterday wasn’t a game to try to big-up his performance.  I’m not saying he was shit either, but it was a performance where his commitment to the hard work part of his role was painfully lacking.  Saying other players weren’t very good yesterday isn’t a good argument.  Nobody is saying those players were!

[petehinton]

Has averaged 0.06 goals and 0.07 assists per 90 minutes over his time here. You read that right. 

[ohhhshauntaylor]

2 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Has averaged 0.06 goals and 0.07 assists per 90 minutes over his time here. You read that right. 

Errrrr- yeah but did you not his slide tackle away @ Peterborough? 
 

that’s the real quiz. 
 

[petehinton]

1 minute ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Errrrr- yeah but did you not his slide tackle away @ Peterborough? 
 

that’s the real quiz. 
 

True. And that goal away at Norwich 150 years ago that meant…..absolutely nothing 

[ohhhshauntaylor]

1 minute ago, petehinton said:

True. And that goal away at Norwich 150 years ago that meant…..absolutely nothing 

You’re not looking at the whole pie, Pete. 
 

I could show you, I dunno, 7 goals and 10 assists in 140 odd games, that literally prove he is useless. 

[And Its Smith]

Looks like the new scapegoat is secured everyone. 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Looks like the new scapegoat is secured everyone. 

No, read countless posts…..several of us are saying he was very poor yesterday….but qualifying that others were  poor too and it was a poor team performance.  Most posters are trying to reason why a couple of you are trying to big up his performance yesterday.  Most of us recognise he did a couple of decent things, but the lack of work going back the other way far outweighed that.

What us your response to the bits he didn’t do well?  

It seems Nige agreed.

[And Its Smith]

Just now, Davefevs said:

No, read countless posts…..several of us are saying he was very poor yesterday….but qualifying that others were  poor too and it was a poor team performance.  Most posters are trying to reason why a couple of you are trying to big up his performance yesterday.  Most of us recognise he did a couple of decent things, but the lack of work going back the other way far outweighed that.

What us your response to the bits he didn’t do well?  

It seems Nige agreed.

A poor team performance and only one thread targeting an individual player. And the thread contains stuff like wishing he would ‘**** off’.  Classic scapegoating.  Not you, but many others. 

[Davefevs]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

A poor team performance and only one thread targeting an individual player. And the thread contains stuff like wishing he would ‘**** off’.  Classic scapegoating.  Not you, but many others. 

Because fans don’t like a lack of effort.  Quite simple.

This team has won fans back a bit this season with its commitment and work ethic, even if not great football.  And yesterday we had a player who didn’t do that basic requirement.  I’d say Pring didn’t either, both didn’t work anywhere near hard enough to cause their opponents an uncomfortable afternoon.

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Because fans don’t like a lack of effort.  Quite simple.

This team has won fans back a bit this season with its commitment and work ethic, even if not great football.  And yesterday we had a player who didn’t do that basic requirement.  I’d say Pring didn’t either, both didn’t work anywhere near hard enough to cause their opponents an uncomfortable afternoon.

For a lot of fans I think it goes back to the contract business.

[ohhhshauntaylor]

9 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

For a lot of fans I think it goes back to the contract business.

Agree. Plus the fact is isn’t very good, and hasn’t been for all his time here. 

[Edgy Red]

I've always said that O'Dowda has ability and i'll stick by that.

This is one of the most offensively inept City teams i have ever seen and has been for the past couple of seasons. It ranks closely to the Russell Osman side of the early 90's when we had the likes of Liam Robinson and Ian Baird upfront. I appreciate we have managed to score goals away from home but we never look convincing and generally they are created by endeavor rather than free flowing inventive play.

If O'Dowda was to move to Forest, Swansea, Sheff Utd etc i think you'd see a different player. Having just seen Pato score a worldie for Swansea he is another player that is technically superior to anything we have left now.

I'll await the "you're talking rubbish" replies, but i'm going to stick with my opinion on this one.

[And Its Smith]

22 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Agree. Plus the fact is isn’t very good, and hasn’t been for all his time here. 

That’s certainly one opinion 

[RedM]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Because fans don’t like a lack of effort.  Quite simple.

This team has won fans back a bit this season with its commitment and work ethic, even if not great football.  And yesterday we had a player who didn’t do that basic requirement.  I’d say Pring didn’t either, both didn’t work anywhere near hard enough to cause their opponents an uncomfortable afternoon.

I agree. If you can’t outplay the opposition then don’t make it easy for them. Bournemouth won’t have an easier game than yesterday and that is embarrassing on our part, and unacceptable. 

Will be interesting to see who is picked on a Tuesday. I am expecting CoD to keep his place on the pure fact that we have nobody else. Either that or he will be suffering from that knock he took and ruled out. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, RedM said:

I agree. If you can’t outplay the opposition then don’t make it easy for them. Bournemouth won’t have an easier game than yesterday and that is embarrassing on our part, and unacceptable. 

Will be interesting to see who is picked on a Tuesday. I am expecting CoD to keep his place on the pure fact that we have nobody else. Either that or he will be suffering from that knock he took and ruled out. 

No injury reported by Nige, wanted to change system and personnel.

[lenred]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Has averaged 0.06 goals and 0.07 assists per 90 minutes over his time here. You read that right. 

Absolutely shocking statistics.  I cannot believe that people stick up for him so strongly.  He’s a symptom of our performances over the last few years - weak.  Hopefully someone will come in for him in January, but cannot see who would.  Maybe over the bridge at Cardiff or Swansea as they seem to like having our ex players. 

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, petehinton said:

Has averaged 0.06 goals and 0.07 assists per 90 minutes over his time here. You read that right. 

This is the legacy of the “clubs in the bag” mantra adopted by both Johnson’s. Instead of appreciating good player’s who consistently do it on a Saturday and Tuesday supporters seem content with players who do something brilliant every now and again and flatter to deceive the rest of the time. O’Dowda is a perfect example and his stats are cast iron proof of his overall level of ability at our level.

[Numero Uno]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No injury reported by Nige, wanted to change system and personnel.

…….and I bet Nige wasn’t a lone wolf making that decision going against the vehement protests of Fleming and Downing to keep “our best player” on the pitch.

[Fuber]

Think in general the issue is that we're very reliant on a ball playing centre half to play us up the pitch to create an overload. We have too many players who simply cannot carry the ball up the pitch reliably - O'Dowda is one of the only few that can.

Wells, Martin Weimann, James - none of them are going to beat a man. 

The second we started the game without Atkinson added to Williams getting injured, with no Massengo available as cover, it was game over. Shame Nagy left as with Massengo and Williams injured he'd be the perfect player to replace or play alongside but that ship has long sailed - issue is nobody else aside from those two really has the legs to cover the same ground.

'Muff were likely the best team I've seen down AG since Norwich, easily. Very organised, physical, fast, and great interchange down the channels each time they came forward to isolate our full back and get a run our centre backs.

Either way, major aim for January looks to be getting a winger and forward in, whether that's loan etc.

Do we know what's happening with Sam Pearson?

[Waconda]

A player who is made for a certain style of play and system. I would suggest he would suit the current Swansea manager and team for instance.

When we have been in good form, winning games and playing on the front foot he can look unplayable but in our current state with the current coaching, tactics and manager, he is wasted, ineffective and often exposed as a weak link defensively.

Should be nowhere near the First team under this regime.

 

[Sir Geoff]

3 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

A poor team performance and only one thread targeting an individual player. And the thread contains stuff like wishing he would ‘**** off’.  Classic scapegoating.  Not you, but many others. 

Not sure about scapegoating, but lots of balanced views as to why he was pulled at Half Time. Only one person knows the real answer and I would guess it was because he wasn't doing the job that NP asked him to do. The same thing happened to Vyner and he hasnt been seen since.

NP is on record as saying that if players do their own thing and don't follow their game instructions then they won't be playing.

 

[Davefevs]

Problem is Jon, is that I’m not using Weimann’s position for one flick to justify Weimann’s match performance v Peterborough.  Weimann’s performance wasn’t the feature of my “the little things”, so you’re taking that completely out of context.  The feature was how we attacked in numbers….not trying to find one-off things to justify an opinion on a player.

I don’t really have any allegiance to any players, i call out Weimann for poor performances likes anyone else….in fact the other week I said I thought he had one of his worst (if not the worst) in a City shirt.  I think some players are better than others, but I evaluate agnostic of this.

I don’t see why you necessarily need to bring another player into the argument really.  You keep picking out one-off bad things for example in a game 2 months ago (credit to your memory ) to justify player x being worse at something than O’Dowda, in the same way you focus on odd things he does to justify he’s better than player y at something else.

Why does the ball from O’Dowda to James have to be James fault?  Can it neither - just one of those things, can it be shared responsibility?  Could he have just held onto the ball?

Most of my posts on this thread are about his overall performance yesterday, which seem to align to most people’s that it was poor, a couple of bright spots outweighed by numerous not very good moments….and part of a poor left side team effort in the first half.  It’s not a general review of his career so far / ability, or something he did last week, last month, last year.

Overall, Callum is an okay player at this level in this team.  He should be a consistent member of the 18 man squad.

I thought quite a few players were poor yesterday, and only Kalas and Baker of the outfield starters came through the game with real credit.  Tanner stuck to his task admirably and improved as the game went on, but Williams aside as he went off after 15 minutes, everyone else was below par.  James was awful first half, remedied it a bit second half through sheer effort.

[Numero Uno]

35 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

A player who is made for a certain style of play and system. I would suggest he would suit the current Swansea manager and team for instance.

When we have been in good form, winning games and playing on the front foot he can look unplayable but in our current state with the current coaching, tactics and manager, he is wasted, ineffective and often exposed as a weak link defensively.

Should be nowhere near the First team under this regime.

 

Have a look at his career record. What has he actually produced under ANY regime?

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

Have a look at his career record. What has he actually produced under ANY regime?

International footballer.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, VT05763 said:

International footballer.

Yes, he was for a while, but the question still remains. What has he actually PRODUCED that wins football matches?

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

Yes, he was for a while, but the question still remains. What has he actually PRODUCED that wins football matches?

I agree with you, not his biggest fan and he wouldn't be a signing of mine BUT put him in the right side with the correct type of manager he could be a very decent player. He does not and will not ever fit into a NP type of team or system and therefore (IMO) should not be in the squad let alone the team.

[E.G.Red]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Not sure about scapegoating, but lots of balanced views as to why he was pulled at Half Time. Only one person knows the real answer and I would guess it was because he wasn't doing the job that NP asked him to do. The same thing happened to Vyner and he hasnt been seen since.

NP is on record as saying that if players do their own thing and don't follow their game instructions then they won't be playing.

 

He was pulled off because the shape was wasn't working. Although he still got rated a 7 in today's press which was the top nark for a City player (alongside Dan B)  compared to King  & Martin who stayed on the pitch and only rated a 4.

[Numero Uno]

11 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

He was pulled off because the shape was wasn't working. Although he still got rated a 7 in today's press which was the top nark for a City player (alongside Dan B)  compared to King  & Martin who stayed on the pitch and only rated a 4.

Clearly the person doing the ratings in the press only watched the ball. O’Dowda could easily have been accommodated in our change of shape if the management thought he was playing well and doing his job. I’ll stick to what I saw not what a journo reckons. Anyway, 7 goals in 141 appearances or TWO goals per season if you like from an “attacking” player is a reasonable indicator of his overall contribution to Bristol City.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Numero Uno

[KegCity]

23 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

I agree with you, not his biggest fan and he wouldn't be a signing of mine BUT put him in the right side with the correct type of manager he could be a very decent player. He does not and will not ever fit into a NP type of team or system and therefore (IMO) should not be in the squad let alone the team.

It’s all ifs and buts though. He’s had 3 different managers to find a system that suits him and none of them have been able to do it. The common denominator is COD.

I don’t really know what his strengths are, aside from occasional flashes there’s not been a whole lot to shout about from his performances throughout his time here.

[Numero Uno]

To put some perspective on it had O’Dowda (1 goal in 20), Palmer (1 in 13) or Paterson (1 in 7) all been out of contract in the summer, who would still be here now?

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

That wasn't a video to justify O'Dowda having what I'd call a 6 out of 10 performance. Just thought it was a class pass on the volley. A bit like when we used to see the odd Pato clip or when I made that Tanner tackle clip that was an impressive bit of play.

The Weimann comments is because I disagree slightly on how you evaluate him but that's just a different opinion, a bit like how we see O'Dowda a bit differently but that's all fine. Sure we generally agree on quite a number of others. I much more share your point of view on Bakinson now for example, having been very hopeful after the occasional good performance last season. Not suited to how we play at all.

The pass to James was fine imo and James was too slow to get on to it. In fact he didn't really move. Maybe a 'man on' was needed. But it was a bit like that all game in that midfield. I thought that was a mistake but the main mistake then was the team not dealing with their break and cross in the box.

Going back to Weimann I actually thought he was more effective 2nd half in general, much more involved and his quick releasing of the ball and constant pressing suited the team much more.

Agree James was poor and King really struggled and looked way off the pace. Tactically I think Pearson got it wrong, but I wouldn't say there was an obvious thing he should have done that would beat Bournemouth as they're so good, but Peterborough showed it is possible to get a point and they're one of the lower teams in the division. No doubt some other managers would have taken a very different approach that may have worked.

2 of the subs made no sense to me at all, and that's not the O'Dowda one which I did at least understand.

Agree Kalas was brilliant as usual, Baker was a pretty solid performance. Although I think centre mid is a strong position when everyone is fit, we look like we can depend most on whichever 2 play at the back at the moment. Really need Massengo back mid week. Dasilva surely has a good chance of starting too after a pretty decent performance.

Ta. Healthy debate.  Can’t agree on all things.  We Keep it civil(ish) though….I think

The positives (there weren’t many) for me Saturday was in confirming the status of a couple of players.

Bakinson - pretty much played himself out of contention

Dasilva - showing he’s really getting back on form after injury issues last 2 seasons.  A little ankle turn v QPR is gonna happen.

Re Jay, that means we now have options down the left with Pring and O’Dowda, and even Baker at LB where horses for courses is required.

I’d like Antoine back fit too, Saturday showed that we missed some power and pace, even if it’s a bit uncontrolled / raw.  I still think he could be a threat starting down the middle, but with license to roam.  Need to pair him with someone though.  I think the last time he played there was v Reading away last season where him and Fam looked like they had no idea how to play together.  Not sure it will happen, but I’d like to see it.

Right midfield is more of a prob now Williams injured, but we should be able to get a tune out of Palmer or Scott there if required.  Palmer could play that role  narrow too.

Think we will see Atkinson back tomorrow, if Massengo isn’t then I think Vyner will partner James.  I can think of worse options.

Would rest one of Weimann or Martin tomorrow night.