Cool colours yeh

[ExiledAjax]

Red v green. 3rd time this season. 

Absolutely bloody genius. Well done to everyone involved in choosing the kit colours for today's match. Just the 1 in 12 blokes that might have been affected by this. Possibly 2 of our squad. **** the shorts, this is ******* awful. **** the swear filter as well. 

Bournemouth could have worn their white away kit, but nope obviously this was a top opportunity to break out the green 3rd kit. Against a red home kit. ******* cretins. 

@Blagdon red @JerrySLO whoever decides this crap doesn't actually give a shit do they.

Edited October 16, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[intercity]

And it was impossible to read the black numbers on the backs of those green shirts too.

[ExiledAjax]

20 minutes ago, intercity said:

And it was impossible to read the black numbers on the backs of those green shirts too.

Yeh. I love it when teams double down on terrible colour choices. It lets me enjoy our home losses even more.

It's ridiculous. 

[Aaron-Bcfc]

They could’ve being playing in fluorescent pink and the outcome would’ve been exactly the same.

[GreedyHarry]

4 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

They could’ve being playing in fluorescent pink and the outcome would’ve been exactly the same.

I don’t disagree but it would have been nice to watch that outcome without having to rely on the colour of a players shorts to tell what team they were. And as others have said the names and numbers were completely unreadable.

[ExiledAjax]

5 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

They could’ve being playing in fluorescent pink and the outcome would’ve been exactly the same.

It's a terrible kit blend regardless of the result.

Firstly Bournemouth shouldn't even have a green 3rd kit. No one should have a green kit. Secondly if they must have green...they should never wear it away to a team that plays in red. Thirdly, if they selfishly insist on doing so then we should change.

Our new purple kit would have (just about) worked against this abhorrent green and black job. We could have worn that, and then when asked why on earth we wore our 3rd kit at home we could have highlighted the fact that Bournemouth stupidly have and wore a green kit - thus making the game very difficult to watch for the 1 in 12 men and 1 in 200 women who are colourblind. By the sounds of it yesterday's kit was a challenge even for those with 'normal' colour vision.

I'd be saying the same if we'd won 5-0.

Edited October 17, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[nickolas]

Im colourblind too but didnt struggle yesterday. 
It was clear who was in green as they had the ball for 90 mins!!

[GTFABM]

Do all people affected with colour blindness have the same colour clashes? 

[Out of his pie crust]

7 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Do all people affected with colour blindness have the same colour clashes? 

I struggle with blue and white

[Red Skin]

7 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Do all people affected with colour blindness have the same colour clashes? 

No.  I do struggle with colours but that particular shade of green I could differentiate from red.  Other shades are harder for me.   

Take the OPs point, though.  Absolutely no need.

[1960maaan]

The problem has been , 11 in 12 haven't cared, TBH we probably only thought about it in passing. It's only this year that a couple of teams have stepped up to help by changing kits.  Serie A have apparently banned green kits, and World Rugby are banning Red/Green kit clashes from 2027, not sure why it takes so long though. 

 I didn't realise , or think about it until I saw this photo.

Red Green is the most common colourblindness apparently, and this would ruin my enjoyment of any game. you could see why Rugby are changing, I wouldn't think it would take much for football to do the same, but quicker.

Be hard to watch even if you have good enough eyesight to pick out faces from 100 yards.

 

[pommers65]

I'm colour blind but had no trouble yesterday..
Millwall the other week was a different matter..an absolute nightmare for me

[Eddie Hitler]

You should see Bournemouth's fourth kit.

It's specifically designed to confuse commentators and fans alike.

 

[GrahamC]

Whilst I agree with the OP, we were at home so I don’t see our role in this.

Apparently Bournemouth’s second kit is white anyway, so why they chose to wear this colour is all on them.

[ralphindevon]

For me it wasn’t the worse clash I’ve seen, I think them having so much black in their green made it ok but your point still stands.

[Wealwayseatcheese]

I don’t suffer from colour blindness but from reading this thread I can wholly sympathise with those that do and from seeing the photos of green and red I can understand how frustrating it must be. 

[1960maaan]

42 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Whilst I agree with the OP, we were at home so I don’t see our role in this.

Apparently Bournemouth’s second kit is white anyway, so why they chose to wear this colour is all on them.

Like most 3rd kits, it's a money making exercise, and they have to wear it occasionally.

[Wealwayseatcheese]

43 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Whilst I agree with the OP, we were at home so I don’t see our role in this.

Apparently Bournemouth’s second kit is white anyway, so why they chose to wear this colour is all on them.

I would imagine they have to wear it so many times per season as per manufacturers contract?? Like any other team I guess 

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Whilst I agree with the OP, we were at home so I don’t see our role in this.

Apparently Bournemouth’s second kit is white anyway, so why they chose to wear this colour is all on them.

Yeh. I made the thread after a few pints last night and my anger was amplified by the ciders.

It is mainly on Bournemouth. But it's also on the EFL who I believe sign off the kits a couple of weeks before each game. I also don't think it's beyond us to say to Bournemouth "hang on, why are you wearing green?". Maybe we did that, maybe we didn't, but I hope we did.

It's interesting that this wasn't the worst blend for a lot of people. That does show that it's a tricky issue. However there are basic principles - such as using one dark and one light kit - that can really help.

I was angry as well as I recently emailed the Club and SC&T and was told that the Club would be keeping colourindness in mind when sorting kits out. Yesterday's kits made me think this was perhaps a less than serious promise.

[ExiledAjax]

3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

The problem has been , 11 in 12 haven't cared, TBH we probably only thought about it in passing. It's only this year that a couple of teams have stepped up to help by changing kits.  Serie A have apparently banned green kits, and World Rugby are banning Red/Green kit clashes from 2027, not sure why it takes so long though. 

 I didn't realise , or think about it until I saw this photo.

Red Green is the most common colourblindness apparently, and this would ruin my enjoyment of any game. you could see why Rugby are changing, I wouldn't think it would take much for football to do the same, but quicker.

Be hard to watch even if you have good enough eyesight to pick out faces from 100 yards.

 

Thanks. This is a great post. The greyscale test is a really good way to tell if two kits could be problematic. 

[Barkhamred]

I'm not colour blind but at one point yesterday looking from the SS I lost one of their players on the far touch line due to the green against the grass and the people in the Dolman. I commented at the time that this shade of green against the grass could also be difficult for players.

[Davefevs]

@ExiledAjaxlooks like you weren’t the only one!

I saw Wes in the ground from where I sit, and then he was gone.

[ExiledAjax]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@ExiledAjaxlooks like you weren’t the only one!

I saw Wes in the ground from where I sit, and then he was gone.

Cheers Dave. The more people that email/tweet/shout about this to the Club and to @JerrySLO the better. 

I'm not seeking to whip up a crusade over it, I'm well conscious that there are others with far more serious issues, but this is appreciated. Thank you. 

[ExiledAjax]

https://www.htafc.com/news/2021/september/kit-selections--colour-vision-deficiency/

Huddersfield made a change earlier this season after fans commented on bad kit choices in earlier games. It is possible to make intelligent decisions. 

I guess it will again be somewhat out of our hands which kit Forest go for on Tuesday. Hopefully they go for this third kit...

...rather than their away kit...which if used will cause issues for many fans.

[Eddie Hitler]

5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

this third kit...

 

It's terrible when you do that; I always make sure that I use dye catchers on every washing machine load after once making that mistake.

[BTRFTG]

2 in our squad? City played like they were all deuteranopic given the number of times they passed the ball to Bomo.

Shame your photo shows the ball to be white, as Wells for sure failed to see it else he'd surely have scored rather than scuff it wide of the post.

[1960maaan]

This might be of interest if some haven't seen it.

Bristol City Supporters Club & Trust

9 m  · 

It has come to our attention of the issues caused with Bournemouth's green third kit being used against City's red home kit from Saturday. If you're affected by colour blindness; especially with the kits from last Saturday; please let us know at info@bristolcitysupporters.org.

Colour blindness is an issue we as a board have been discussing. We'd love to hear from you

 

 

[ExiledAjax]

18 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

This might be of interest if some haven't seen it.

Bristol City Supporters Club & Trust

9 m  · 

It has come to our attention of the issues caused with Bournemouth's green third kit being used against City's red home kit from Saturday. If you're affected by colour blindness; especially with the kits from last Saturday; please let us know at info@bristolcitysupporters.org.

Colour blindness is an issue we as a board have been discussing. We'd love to hear from you

 

 

Yep I've been speaking to the SC&T and they've been very good at listening to the issues and taking them to the Club.

If they can build a body of evidence then that will help persuade the Club to take more assertive action.

I'd echo again the call for anyone reading this thread who has had issues this season, to just drop an email to them. 

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yep I've been speaking to the SC&T and they've been very good at listening to the issues and taking them to the Club.

If they can build a body of evidence then that will help persuade the Club to take more assertive action.

I'd echo again the call for anyone reading this thread who has had issues this season, to just drop an email to them. 

With the financial side of 3rd kits, it may be hard to convince an away side not to use a shirt that they can only use on certain occasions. I think it needs a ruling from the higher powers like in Rugby. Though why they are taking until 2027 to do something is odd.

As I said previously, I'm not affected so you tend not to think of it, but those photos I posted really brings it home.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

With the financial side of 3rd kits, it may be hard to convince an away side not to use a shirt that they can only use on certain occasions. I think it needs a ruling from the higher powers like in Rugby. Though why they are taking until 2027 to do something is odd.

As I said previously, I'm not affected so you tend not to think of it, but those photos I posted really brings it home.

Thing is I don't think it needs more rules. Legislation and further regulation should be the last resort, and personally I think the tools are already in place. We simply need clubs, leagues, and kit designers to be made aware of the existing FA and UEFA guidance, and then for them to implement it and bear it in mind when deciding on kit design and selection.

Regarding Saturday's game: I don't think a green kit is ever wise, but if the marketing guys at Bournemouth want it then that's fine. But they should then consider the guidance and realise that the time to use that kit is against Fulham, Swansea, Derby, Coventry, or any other team that plays in white or lighter blue. To use it against teams that play in red is inconsiderate. 

This season I am seeing more fan pressure, and also some response from clubs (see the Huddersfield example above). I am hopeful.

My greatest thanks is to someone like yourself who despite not being colourblind, has shown interest, support and compassion for those people who do. Thank you.

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

My greatest thanks is to someone like yourself who despite not being colourblind, has shown interest, support and compassion for those people who do. Thank you.

No problem, it's a small thing. But again, it was the photo that emphasised the problem. Must make enjoying the game really difficult.

 

[exAtyeoMax]

11 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

With the financial side of 3rd kits, it may be hard to convince an away side not to use a shirt that they can only use on certain occasions. I think it needs a ruling from the higher powers like in Rugby. Though why they are taking until 2027 to do something is odd.

As I said previously, I'm not affected so you tend not to think of it, but those photos I posted really brings it home.

Existing regulations should supersede any 3rd kit financial agreement. Regulations should be enforced not decided by the club when they feel like it.

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

No problem, it's a small thing. But again, it was the photo that emphasised the problem. Must make enjoying the game really difficult.

Honestly, if you haven't already then please do email the SC&T yourself. I suspect an email from someone without colourblindness could be worth 10 from those of us with it!

You know the maddest thing...I'm not even sure which of those two pictures is supposed to be the "normal" one and which is showing you what colourblind people see!

Edited October 18, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Existing regulations should supersede any 3rd kit financial agreement. Regulations should be enforced not decided by the club when they feel like it.

It only needs to be guidelines sent to Clubs and manufacturers , explain the problems people suffer. There are plenty of designs and colours to play with.
They can make a big thing about it and big themselves up, companies love to be seen as the good guy.

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Honestly, if you haven't already then please do email the SC&T yourself. I suspect an email from someone without colourblindness could be worth 10 from those of us with it!

Will email them later.

[Davefevs]

In Basketball, we often see home and away vest, but I couldn’t work out why sometimes the Flyers wore their away vest at home….but then someone mentioned that they tend to work on the basis of a team having a light coloured and dark coloured vest.  Found this re NBA:

[Hamdon Mart]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Thing is I don't think it needs more rules. Legislation and further regulation should be the last resort, and personally I think the tools are already in place. We simply need clubs, leagues, and kit designers to be made aware of the existing FA and UEFA guidance, and then for them to implement it and bear it in mind when deciding on kit design and selection.

Regarding Saturday's game: I don't think a green kit is ever wise, but if the marketing guys at Bournemouth want it then that's fine. But they should then consider the guidance and realise that the time to use that kit is against Fulham, Swansea, Derby, Coventry, or any other team that plays in white or lighter blue. To use it against teams that play in red is inconsiderate. 

This season I am seeing more fan pressure, and also some response from clubs (see the Huddersfield example above). I am hopeful.

My greatest thanks is to someone like yourself who despite not being colourblind, has shown interest, support and compassion for those people who do. Thank you.

I'm right behind you on this one, EA, and as someone that isn't colourblind. I replied on the thread on Twitter to Wes, I work for Opta at the ground and it was nigh on impossible to tell some of the players numbers from in the Lansdown Stand. Didn't the PA get the wrong name when announcing the first goal or did I dream it?

Have noticed the issue with kits a few times this year and from my perspective, it needs sorting. Reading's kit this season doesn't have the large white patch/red number combo this year, presumably because they are playing in a new 125th anniversary kit. Sheffield Wednesday's are tricky, Rovers numbers are hard to pick out too this season. And as for West Brom's kits..... aaarrgghhhh!!! 

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, Hamdon Mart said:

I'm right behind you on this one, EA, and as someone that isn't colourblind. I replied on the thread on Twitter to Wes, I work for Opta at the ground and it was nigh on impossible to tell some of the players numbers from in the Lansdown Stand. Didn't the PA get the wrong name when announcing the first goal or did I dream it?

Have noticed the issue with kits a few times this year and from my perspective, it needs sorting. Reading's kit this season doesn't have the large white patch/red number combo this year, presumably because they are playing in a new 125th anniversary kit. Sheffield Wednesday's are tricky, Rovers numbers are hard to pick out too this season. And as for West Brom's kits..... aaarrgghhhh!!! 

Yes, agree….the back of shirts should contain a single colour panel with a contrasting colour number

[ExiledAjax]

@Hamdon Mart very interesting to hear from someone that works in the industry and is directly affected. I've had some minor issues in my own job but I've not heard from someone in football before.

Do your employers know about the issues? Do you know any colleagues that sometimes struggle? Is it something you'd even feel comfortable admitting to your employer? Ever had it mentioned by a player? Honestly I've got so many questions for you - please answer only those you are comfortable with, and of course DM if you don't want to answer on this thread.

Have you had to deal with Man Utd's away kit this season? Dreadful thing. Can't imagine the sponsor is happy that their logo fades into the shirt for about 9% of the population!

@Davefevs I think the American sports have it sorted as those leagues were created in the era of black and white TV as a TV product. In greyscale you have to have light v dark. Just look at the greyscale version of Wales v Ireland in @1960maaan's post above to see why green v red doesn't work. This was a decision driven by TV, and the side effect is that it's also pretty reliably good for those with colourblindness. 

[petehinton]

FWIW it's my understanding that the clubs have to submit their kit 'choices' to the officials ahead of the game for them to give the OK - who then flag any clashes with their kit or anything else that have led to mix and match type kits in the past (away shirt with home shorts etc etc). There's quite a few steps that could be intercepted to make sure it's comfortable for everyone in the stadium

[ExiledAjax]

33 minutes ago, petehinton said:

FWIW it's my understanding that the clubs have to submit their kit 'choices' to the officials ahead of the game for them to give the OK - who then flag any clashes with their kit or anything else that have led to mix and match type kits in the past (away shirt with home shorts etc etc). There's quite a few steps that could be intercepted to make sure it's comfortable for everyone in the 

In the Prem clubs submit kits to the league 2 weeks before a games. Then the kits are run through software that provides feedback to clubs. The colourblind awareness society was involved in setting that software up. 

However, the feedback is only advisory, and clubs are not obligated to follow it.

I don't know what the precise procedure is at EFL level. I suspect it is similar but don't know for sure.

You're right that there will be a number of opportunities to catch an issue though.

[Lack of Action Man]

Did seem a bit silly having red play green, especially a green and black kit like that.

Adapting kits to help people who are colour blind is a good idea. I just hope it doesn’t take the character out of some of the kits.

I didn’t really enjoy how so many games in this years euros (especially in the knockout stages) seemed to be white kits versus non white kits.

 

[Lack of Action Man]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, agree….the back of shirts should contain a single colour panel with a contrasting colour number

Noooooooo
 

I normally agree with you on a lot, but for once I can’t! I love the tradition of a striped/hooped kit and can’t help but feel a bit disappointed when the back of the shirt is just a blank white slab.

[ExiledAjax]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, agree….the back of shirts should contain a single colour panel with a contrasting colour number

Weirdly it looks like numbers and names are determined by the League itself rather than club by club.

From the EFL regs:

33.16     The size, style, colour and design of shirt numbers and lettering appearing on a Player’s shirt and shorts shall be determined by The League from time to time.

Note as well the following footnote to regulation 38.1 regarding the design of kits:

When considering selection of colours of shirts / socks, Clubs should have regard to the guidance issued by the Football Association on helping those affected by colour blindness, a copy of which is available on the EFL SharePoint site accessed via the Club Portal system.

This applies only to the design of kits, not to the choice of kits for a particular game.

Regarding an actual game, reg 38.3 requires that When away from home a Club shall play in a registered kit which is clearly distinguishable (shirt, shorts and socks) from those of their opponents. This requirement shall apply strictly in respect of shirts and socks. Where both Clubs request to play in the same, or similar, coloured shorts then an application to do so shall be made to the appointed match referee whose consent shall not be unreasonably withheld.

Seems like the onus is on the match officials to sort out a potential kit blend on the day.

So, again, the guidance is there. It just needs to be followed, and perhaps clarified a little!

[ExiledAjax]

23 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

Did seem a bit silly having red play green, especially a green and black kit like that.

Adapting kits to help people who are colour blind is a good idea. I just hope it doesn’t take the character out of some of the kits.

I didn’t really enjoy how so many games in this years euros (especially in the knockout stages) seemed to be white kits versus non white kits.

Appreciate a different viewpoint, but it doesn't need to be a case of everyone in white v colours, and I am respectful of traditional kits and am not advocating a US style "every away kit is white" solution.

White v Black is probably the best contrast, but Red v Yellow, Black v Yellow, Bright Blue (think Birmingham or Chelsea) v Bright Red (Bristol City or Liverpool) or Blue v Yellow are also reliably good contrasts for 99% of people.

The Euro final had its own issue as the referee's pink kit blended quite well with Italy's blue for some colourblind people.

Edited October 18, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[ExiledAjax]

On 17/10/2021 at 11:41, Davefevs said:

@ExiledAjaxlooks like you weren’t the only one!

I saw Wes in the ground from where I sit, and then he was gone.

So I was just looking around on twitter and saw this in response to this tweet, and in response to some of those from the SC&T (who have honestly been fantastic in their support). I cannot believe that Murray suffers and hasn't said anything before!!!

[ralphindevon]

12 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

So I was just looking around on twitter and saw this in response to this tweet, and in response to some of those from the SC&T (who have honestly been fantastic in their support). I cannot believe that Murray suffers and hasn't said anything before!!!

TBF to Scott it’s one of those things that unless someone else, like you, is openly talking about it at our club, then you just think it’s you that’s struggling and get on with it.

For instance, besides mild colourblindness my eyesight is very good for my age, late 50’s, in normal or bright light but when it’s darker I struggle nowadays. Including night games where I think our floodlights are quite poor. Recognising players at the far end from where I sit is hard work. But I don’t hear anyone else moaning so I guess it’s just me……..but it might not be

 

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

TBF to Scott it’s one of those things that unless someone else, like you, is openly talking about it at our club, then you just think it’s you that’s struggling and get on with it.

For instance, besides mild colourblindness my eyesight is very good for my age, late 50’s, in normal or bright light but when it’s darker I struggle nowadays. Including night games where I think our floodlights are quite poor. Recognising players at the far end from where I sit is hard work. But I don’t hear anyone else moaning so I guess it’s just me……..but it might not be

Absolutely, I've just always been pretty open about it with people. It's part of who I am, I live with it every day, and if anyone is interested I'll talk their ear off about it and answer any (respectful) questions.

Kind of why I have started this thread (and others) to be honest, and am updating it regularly. If it isn't talked about then people won't realise its an issue, and, crucially, won't realise that it has a relatively simple solution. Maybe if you start moaning then someone will join in!? I'm coming tomorrow, would be happy to come and find you and start a moan if Forest turn out in their dark blue away kit.

Honestly if Wez's tweets have ultimately ended with Bristol City's own kitman admitting to having issues with kit colours - well then I'll sleep happy tonight as that will surely mean that at least our Club starts to take this seriously.

Edited October 18, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[ralphindevon]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Absolutely, I've just always been pretty open about it with people. It's part of who I am, I live with it every day, and if anyone is interested I'll talk their ear off about it and answer any (respectful) questions.

Kind of why I have started this thread (and others) to be honest, and am updating it regularly. If it isn't talked about then people won't realise its an issue, and, crucially, won't realise that it has a relatively simple solution.

Honestly if Wez's tweets have ultimately ended with Bristol City's own kitman admitting to having issues with kit colours - well then I'll sleep happy tonight as that will surely mean that at least our Club starts to take this seriously.

It’s great to see it being taken seriously and not just ignored. Well done on the part you’ve played. 

[Lack of Action Man]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Appreciate a different viewpoint, but it doesn't need to be a case of everyone in white v colours, and I am respectful of traditional kits and am not advocating a US style "every away kit is white" solution.

White v Black is probably the best contrast, but Red v Yellow, Black v Yellow, Bright Blue (think Birmingham or Chelsea) v Bright Red (Bristol City or Liverpool) or Blue v Yellow are also reliably good contrasts for 99% of people.

The Euro final had its own issue as the referee's pink kit blended quite well with Italy's blue for some colourblind people.

Yeah I think if we went down the “white kits versus” route I’d be pretty disappointed tbh. I love the variety, but also the history and traditions behind kits and club identities. To lose that would be a crying shame, but I do agree with you and think football in general can do better to avoid obviously silly colour clashes like red and green. 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Absolutely, I've just always been pretty open about it with people. It's part of who I am, I live with it every day, and if anyone is interested I'll talk their ear off about it and answer any (respectful) questions.

Kind of why I have started this thread (and others) to be honest, and am updating it regularly. If it isn't talked about then people won't realise its an issue, and, crucially, won't realise that it has a relatively simple solution. Maybe if you start moaning then someone will join in!? I'm coming tomorrow, would be happy to come and find you and start a moan if Forest turn out in their dark blue away kit.

Honestly if Wez's tweets have ultimately ended with Bristol City's own kitman admitting to having issues with kit colours - well then I'll sleep happy tonight as that will surely mean that at least our Club starts to take this seriously.

Wes used to post on here @WesM

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

Yeah I think if we went down the “white kits versus” route I’d be pretty disappointed tbh. I love the variety, but also the history and traditions behind kits and club identities. To lose that would be a crying shame, but I do agree with you and think football in general can do better to avoid obviously silly colour clashes like red and green. 

I don't think any team would really need to alter their traditional home colours. In the UK/Ireland, off the top of my head, you've got just a few teams that wear truly green home colours. There is of course Plymouth Argyle (honestly I cannot imagine what their colourblind fans go through) and the Irish and N. Irish national teams. Celtic maybe, but the white hoops generally mean their kit is ok. Other than that you've got Sassuolo in Italy and I think that's it for major televised leagues.*

To my mind very few other teams would need to make changes so long as everyone adopts a lighter colour (white, light blue, light grey, light pink) for one of either their away or 3rd kit. If they then use that light tone kit at appropriate points we should be able to avoid 99% of the problem kit blends. Even against the above mentioned teasm we would see an improvement, even if it remains mental that they use green at all.

For our club I would humbly suggest that this would mean a red home kit, white away kit, and purple third kit. I can't really see an issue there so far as traditions go - at least in my lifetime we've mostly had white away kits, with a few black and then the odd weird one like that gold and dark blue job we had a while back.

*Personally I also have issues with teams like Blackpool and Luton who favour orange. I don't see the red element of orange very well, and so those kits come across very washed out. Against a green pitch there are issues. However, on balance I suspect they are ok(ish), and they do clash well with most opposition kits - and that is the main issue here.

[Keepers Ball]

Clubs can choose whatever colour scheme they want. Jesus

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I don't think any team would really need to alter their traditional home colours. In the UK/Ireland, off the top of my head, you've got just a few teams that wear truly green home colours. There is of course Plymouth Argyle (honestly I cannot imagine what their colourblind fans go through) and the Irish and N. Irish national teams. Celtic maybe, but the white hoops generally mean their kit is ok. Other than that you've got Sassuolo in Italy and I think that's it for major televised leagues.*

To my mind very few other teams would need to make changes so long as everyone adopts a lighter colour (white, light blue, light grey, light pink) for one of either their away or 3rd kit. If they then use that light tone kit at appropriate points we should be able to avoid 99% of the problem kit blends. Even against the above mentioned teasm we would see an improvement, even if it remains mental that they use green at all.

For our club I would humbly suggest that this would mean a red home kit, white away kit, and purple third kit. I can't really see an issue there so far as traditions go - at least in my lifetime we've mostly had white away kits, with a few black and then the odd weird one like that gold and dark blue job we had a while back.

*Personally I also have issues with teams like Blackpool and Luton who favour orange. I don't see the red element of orange very well, and so those kits come across very washed out. Against a green pitch there are issues. However, on balance I suspect they are ok(ish), and they do clash well with most opposition kits - and that is the main issue here.

With Plymouth they don`t often have an all green kit - there`s usually quite a bit of white in it (sleeves, shoulders, stripes etc.) and often the green is a very bright one. When they do go dark green though it is almost black.

[Steve Watts]

On 17/10/2021 at 11:38, Barkhamred said:

I'm not colour blind but at one point yesterday looking from the SS I lost one of their players on the far touch line due to the green against the grass and the people in the Dolman. I commented at the time that this shade of green against the grass could also be difficult for players.

The issue I have with this comment is that the Bournemouth players had to deal with this as well but seemed to get on just fine.  It would be slightly odd for our players to therefore be affected (unless they do suffer colour blindness) and Bournemouth's to not be affected. 

11 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

No problem, it's a small thing. But again, it was the photo that emphasised the problem. Must make enjoying the game really difficult.

You're absolutely spot on.  The colouring in that photo does bring a striking realisation as to the troubles people suffer.  As for the highlighted bit.  I'm not sure it's the colour of the kits that have made enjoying the game really difficult over the last few seasons in particular!

In all seriousness thought, I think it's worth giving thought to what more we, as fans with and without this affliction can do to convince the powers that be to take this issue seriously. 

[E.G.Red]

12 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yep I've been speaking to the SC&T and they've been very good at listening to the issues and taking them to the Club.

If they can build a body of evidence then that will help persuade the Club to take more assertive action.

I'd echo again the call for anyone reading this thread who has had issues this season, to just drop an email to them. 

The SC&T also made an appeal on RB 'Sound of the city' tonight. Hopefully the EFL will consider those who suffer colourblindness(4.5% of population) when signing of the kits for games.

Also I'm not colour blind but I found the names & numbers on back of the bournmouth shirts difficult to read.

[GreedyHarry]

7 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Appreciate a different viewpoint, but it doesn't need to be a case of everyone in white v colours, and I am respectful of traditional kits and am not advocating a US style "every away kit is white" solution.

White v Black is probably the best contrast, but Red v Yellow, Black v Yellow, Bright Blue (think Birmingham or Chelsea) v Bright Red (Bristol City or Liverpool) or Blue v Yellow are also reliably good contrasts for 99% of people.

The Euro final had its own issue as the referee's pink kit blended quite well with Italy's blue for some colourblind people.

And not for you EA, because you’ll do this anyway, but differentiating a kit with hoops, stripes, halves, a diagonal stripe etc., can really help for us to tell teams apart. As does a good contrast of shorts and socks between opposing teams.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, E.G.Red said:

The SC&T also made an appeal on RB 'Sound of the city' tonight. Hopefully the EFL will consider those who suffer colourblindness(4.5% of population) when signing of the kits for games.

Also I'm not colour blind but I found the names & numbers on back of the bournmouth shirts difficult to read.

I found the. Impossible from up on A4….had to make do with trying recognise by skin colour, build, hair, etc.

[Barkhamred]

35 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

The issue I have with this comment is that the Bournemouth players had to deal with this as well but seemed to get on just fine.  It would be slightly odd for our players to therefore be affected (unless they do suffer colour blindness) and Bournemouth's to not be affected. 

 

I understand your point here - I did wonder about it but then again the green is their third strip, how many times have they worn it before Saturday to have experienced problems? Maybe if they had had to work harder during the match it might have caused issues.

[Lrrr]

8 hours ago, petehinton said:

FWIW it's my understanding that the clubs have to submit their kit 'choices' to the officials ahead of the game for them to give the OK - who then flag any clashes with their kit or anything else that have led to mix and match type kits in the past (away shirt with home shorts etc etc). There's quite a few steps that could be intercepted to make sure it's comfortable for everyone in the stadium

Then have to factor referees kit colour as well, definitely have been long conversations before about kit colours for each team GK/outfield and refs which should have been easily to solve in advance but only gets dealt with when teams turn up to the ground. 5 different colours of kit to all make sure there's no crossover.

[Chicken George]

Seen a load more kit clashes this year than ever before. Clearly the league aren’t as bothered as they used to be. 
worst one I saw was Scunthorpe against Exeter - see this :

 

 

 

[Always Believesham]

Thank you to anyone that's helped bring this to the attention of people that matter.

I am colourblind, red-green and have had more trouble with watching games on TV - but it did get worse on Saturday for me as the game wore on. I don't know if that was because the ball spent more time in the air or if there was less natural light.

Personally I wouldn't have known how to raise it or whether it mattered to anyone that this was a problem.

Ultimately the referee should have the final say, if Bournemouth had forgotten their kit and we'd pulled a snazzy white number out of lost property for them to wear, that would not have been approved weeks in advance & probably wouldn't have been an issue (I'm sure someone quite famously won a game in their opposition's youth team strip?!). They should be able to override the decisions on the kit.

Another thing, remember all the threats from the league that went to Huddersfield after they unveiled their Paddy Power kit? Where's that energy when it comes to some folks not being able to follow the match?

[The Constant Rabbit]

On 17/10/2021 at 17:57, GTFABM said:

Do all people affected with colour blindness have the same colour clashes? 

No, but it is worth noting in some countries it is actually regarded as a genuine disability.

It certainly precludes you from becoming an electrician, plumber, pilot, Police Officer, Armed forces, train / bus driver amongst many many professions. Indeed anything that relies on any form of colour coding.

Some games are unwatchable for the colour blind.

[ExiledAjax]

10 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

The issue I have with this comment is that the Bournemouth players had to deal with this as well but seemed to get on just fine.  It would be slightly odd for our players to therefore be affected (unless they do suffer colour blindness) and Bournemouth's to not be affected. 

The affect on players is a subtly different one to the affect on fans. I know that if a player does suffer then he/she may have their own reasons for not "coming out" (to borrow a phrase). Public knowledge of a genetic defect such as colourblindness could, for fairly obvious reasons, have a negative affect on a players' career. On the recent episode of the Price of Football podcast, the CEO of Colourblind Awareness said that she had spoken to a couple of players who had privately admitted this to her. 

For what it is worth I personally suspect that the difficulties of playing football with colourblindness (of which I have experience) naturally filters people with the condition off of the pitch. Some will have enough talent to enable them to compromise and "make do", but most will find that the extra split second they need to recognise players or officials is enough to be detrimental to the point that they do not make it. Just my theory, but plausible I think.

7 hours ago, Always Believesham said:

Personally I wouldn't have known how to raise it or whether it mattered to anyone that this was a problem.

Please email the SC&T to add your experiences to their body of evidence. 

info@bristolcitysupporters.org>

6 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

No, but it is worth noting in some countries it is actually regarded as a genuine disability.

It certainly precludes you from becoming an electrician, plumber, pilot, Police Officer, Armed forces, train / bus driver amongst many many professions. Indeed anything that relies on any form of colour coding.

Is it truly classed as a disability in some places? I hadn't heard that. Whereabouts?

It does preclude some careers, but many have become more accommodating. Electrical wiring switched from brown to the green/yellow earth wire because of colourblindenss, and I believe the RAF softened their eye test a little in recent years thanks to some lobbying and improvements in the colours used in cockpits. I'd still never sign up for the bomb disposal squad though!

13 hours ago, Keepers Ball said:

Clubs can choose whatever colour scheme they want. Jesus

You'd be happy for Forest to wear their home kit tonight then?

[1960maaan]

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Please email the SC&T to add your experiences to their body of evidence. 

I emailed last night, sounds like a few have. 
One thing, I sent the link below. Seems although there was an international awareness day, it was so poorly advertised no one seems aware. Certainly didn't see a follow up this year. 

https://www.tacbis.eu/news/uefa-nations-league-matches-promote-colour-blind-awareness-day-2020/

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I emailed last night, sounds like a few have. 
One thing, I sent the link below. Seems although there was an international awareness day, it was so poorly advertised no one seems aware. Certainly didn't see a follow up this year. 

https://www.tacbis.eu/news/uefa-nations-league-matches-promote-colour-blind-awareness-day-2020/

Problem was the billboard poster was green words on a red background.

[BasSavage88]

 

 

 

[MarcusX]

12 hours ago, Enter Sandman said:

Seen a load more kit clashes this year than ever before. Clearly the league aren’t as bothered as they used to be. 
worst one I saw was Scunthorpe against Exeter - see this :

 

 

 

Eww that's two horrible kits as well.

My current team wear Green and Yellow stripes, not too bad but the ref allowed the other team to wear all green kit because ours was slightly more yellow than green. It was so bad trying to pick out a player in your peripheral so you could pass first time or marking etc.

like others I'd not really considered colourblindness and the effects it might have but the greyscale photo on this thread really highlights it

16 hours ago, Keepers Ball said:

Clubs can choose whatever colour scheme they want. Jesus

I never understand what drives a person to come on a thread like this and make such a comment. Clearly there is an issue here for a significant amount of people so it's worth discussing and improving.

I'm sure you wouldn't go on a post about someone with a "physical" (maybe visible is a better word) disability and make such a comment.

[ExiledAjax]

40 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

 

 

 

Excellent. 

[City oz]

13 hours ago, Enter Sandman said:

Seen a load more kit clashes this year than ever before. Clearly the league aren’t as bothered as they used to be. 
worst one I saw was Scunthorpe against Exeter - see this :

 

 

 

I just had two beers and 3 reds. This looks good to me. I never new Exeter ever scored four goals in one match

[Hamdon Mart]

On 18/10/2021 at 13:50, ExiledAjax said:

@Hamdon Mart very interesting to hear from someone that works in the industry and is directly affected. I've had some minor issues in my own job but I've not heard from someone in football before.

Do your employers know about the issues? Do you know any colleagues that sometimes struggle? Is it something you'd even feel comfortable admitting to your employer? Ever had it mentioned by a player? Honestly I've got so many questions for you - please answer only those you are comfortable with, and of course DM if you don't want to answer on this thread.

Have you had to deal with Man Utd's away kit this season? Dreadful thing. Can't imagine the sponsor is happy that their logo fades into the shirt for about 9% of the population!

@Davefevs I think the American sports have it sorted as those leagues were created in the era of black and white TV as a TV product. In greyscale you have to have light v dark. Just look at the greyscale version of Wales v Ireland in @1960maaan's post above to see why green v red doesn't work. This was a decision driven by TV, and the side effect is that it's also pretty reliably good for those with colourblindness. 

EA, have not long got back from the match and have a 6am start tomorrow so wll compose a longer reply tomorrow if that's okay.

We were talking about this in the press room tonight, not spcifically the red/green issue but more the numbers being unreadable at certain clubs. I think Saturday's problem with the numbers got worse as the game went on; as the players were sweating, their dark green shirts got darker still and the numbers then almost disappeared in some cases.

I doubt very much I have any influence in getting anything done, I'm only an in-stadium analyst but I will mention it and see if anyone else has reported similar. FWIW, I watched EFL on Quest this morning and think I spotted at least three other green/red matches too; there may not be many teams that have a green first kit but there are more than a few that have a grreen 2nd/3rd kit.