Cool colours yeh

[ExiledAjax]

7 hours ago, Hamdon Mart said:

EA, have not long got back from the match and have a 6am start tomorrow so wll compose a longer reply tomorrow if that's okay.

We were talking about this in the press room tonight, not spcifically the red/green issue but more the numbers being unreadable at certain clubs. I think Saturday's problem with the numbers got worse as the game went on; as the players were sweating, their dark green shirts got darker still and the numbers then almost disappeared in some cases.

I doubt very much I have any influence in getting anything done, I'm only an in-stadium analyst but I will mention it and see if anyone else has reported similar. FWIW, I watched EFL on Quest this morning and think I spotted at least three other green/red matches too; there may not be many teams that have a green first kit but there are more than a few that have a grreen 2nd/3rd kit.

No worries mate.

I sat at pitch level last night, right down in row 2. Had no issues at all seeing the Forest players as that kit would work in place of the floodlights. From a colourblind perspective last night should have been fine for most people.

But picking out our players against the red seats and crowd of the other three stands was trickier, especially as the rain darkened the red to near black.

Now, that's not a colourblind issue, that's just an issue caused by having your seats the same colour as your shirts. Silly, but neither home kit colour nor seat colour is changing in a hurry.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

I always trivialised colour blindness as someone not afflicted, until I listened to the price of football podcast a month or two ago that was dedicated to it. I'm a pretty hard lined traditionalist when it come to sport. For example, I've watched hundreds of Bristol Rugby matches, but never once been to the Bristol Bears, which I see as franchise nonsense that has no place in British sport. 

However, I pretty much instantly was on board with us wearing the best colour we can, home and away to aid those with red-green (the most common kind) colour blindness, through a combination of patterns and colour choices. If that means we don't wear red at home, so be it. I'd rather the club was inclusive than traditional.

[ExiledAjax]

57 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I always trivialised colour blindness as someone not afflicted, until I listened to the price of football podcast a month or two ago that was dedicated to it. I'm a pretty hard lined traditionalist when it come to sport. For example, I've watched hundreds of Bristol Rugby matches, but never once been to the Bristol Bears, which I see as franchise nonsense that has no place in British sport. 

However, I pretty much instantly was on board with us wearing the best colour we can, home and away to aid those with red-green (the most common kind) colour blindness, through a combination of patterns and colour choices. If that means we don't wear red at home, so be it. I'd rather the club was inclusive than traditional.

Thank you very much. If you feel like it then please email your thoughts to the SC&T. They'd be delighted to hear from you.

[Lanterne Rouge]

I see Bournemouth wore that kit at Stoke last night - fair enough though given Stoke`s home kit I suppose.

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I see Bournemouth wore that kit at Stoke last night - fair enough though given Stoke`s home kit I suppose.

Yeh from a Kit v Kit perspective this is fine. Bournemouth still blend into the pitch though, and the numbers are hard to distinguish on either kit.

[Lanterne Rouge]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh from a Kit v Kit perspective this is fine. Bournemouth still blend into the pitch though, and the numbers are hard to distinguish on either kit.

Oh I agree, it`s just a crap choice for a third kit. With their home kit red and away white they`ll always have to wear it when a side has red and white stripes but they could certainly have picked something else. 

Even without the issues you have it just looks bloody horrible!

[Hamdon Mart]

On 20/10/2021 at 06:33, ExiledAjax said:

No worries mate.

I sat at pitch level last night, right down in row 2. Had no issues at all seeing the Forest players as that kit would work in place of the floodlights. From a colourblind perspective last night should have been fine for most people.

But picking out our players against the red seats and crowd of the other three stands was trickier, especially as the rain darkened the red to near black.

Now, that's not a colourblind issue, that's just an issue caused by having your seats the same colour as your shirts. Silly, but neither home kit colour nor seat colour is changing in a hurry.

Upon reading this again with more awake eyes, I can't really add too much more to what I typed the other night. I will send in some feedback to my immediate bosses but how much weight they carry in an area that is quite commercially sensitive is questionable. They are able to get me moved to a better position to collect data during the game but getting a club to change kit is a whole lot more difficult, I assume. 

The talk in the press room on Tuesday night was about the difficulties faced by all of us with the AFCB kit. In the room were analysts, journalists, the ball tracking guys, commentators, club media and summarisers so a wide range of people and from my admittedly small "survey", everyone had the same problems with player identification. We as Opta analysts are trained to look for other attributes in players in order to make positive identifications of players such as hair style/colour, boot colour etc which is going to be little or no help with the colour blindness issue of course.

At the end of the day, it boils down to the fact that all supporters have the right to enjoy watching the game (even if there's two goals for the opposition in stoppage time!). 

[TBW]

On 18/10/2021 at 11:50, Davefevs said:

Yes, agree….the back of shirts should contain a single colour panel with a contrasting colour number

You've been watching too much rugby, Dave!

17 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I see Bournemouth wore that kit at Stoke last night - fair enough though given Stoke`s home kit I suppose.

Personally think stripes should be gotten rid of too in favour of an obviously dominant colour. Pinstripes fine but regular stripes are ugly and always make numbers difficult to identify... and cause away teams more issues in picking out a kit that doesn't clash as per this game and being forced to not wear white.

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, Hamdon Mart said:

Upon reading this again with more awake eyes, I can't really add too much more to what I typed the other night. I will send in some feedback to my immediate bosses but how much weight they carry in an area that is quite commercially sensitive is questionable. They are able to get me moved to a better position to collect data during the game but getting a club to change kit is a whole lot more difficult, I assume. 

Of course, I understand that you aren't the CEO of Opta. Honestly, I am not necessarily looking to get any club or team to change their kit. I think we can eradicate 99% of issues in this season and in future by simply making sure that every team has proper away and third kits that they then use at appropriate times. Had Bournemouth used their white away kit in our match you and your colleagues in the press box would have been better off. 

The talk in the press room on Tuesday night was about the difficulties faced by all of us with the AFCB kit. In the room were analysts, journalists, the ball tracking guys, commentators, club media and summarisers so a wide range of people and from my admittedly small "survey", everyone had the same problems with player identification. We as Opta analysts are trained to look for other attributes in players in order to make positive identifications of players such as hair style/colour, boot colour etc which is going to be little or no help with the colour blindness issue of course.

If it takes a kit like Bournemouth's green 3rd kit to get everyone talking about the issue then so be it. I know the Post are looking to do a piece on this subject so there is some traction happening.

At the end of the day, it boils down to the fact that all supporters have the right to enjoy watching the game (even if there's two goals for the opposition in stoppage time!). 

We have to keep talking about it.

Look at this from Boro v Barnsley last night. Again, Barnsley have a white third kit this season, and Boro have a white away kit. This Red v Green match up could have been so easily avoided. Our game v Barnsley in 9 days time has serious potential to look like this one if Barnsley do not wear their white alternative. If you can add your voice in any way to make sure they do that, we'd all appreciate it.

Barnsley's third kit.

@NIGHTMARE has there been any discussion amongst the Barnsley fanbase regarding your green kit and people struggling to distinguish it?

Edited October 21, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[GreedyHarry]

4 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

We have to keep talking about it.

Look at this from Boro v Barnsley last night. Again, Barnsley have a white third kit this season, and Boro have a white away kit. This Red v Green match up could have been so easily avoided. Our game v Barnsley in 9 days time has serious potential to look like this one if Barnsley do not wear their white alternative. If you can add your voice in any way to make sure they do that, we'd all appreciate it.

Barnsley's third kit.

@NIGHTMARE has there been any discussion amongst the Barnsley fanbase regarding your green kit and people struggling to distinguish it?

If Barnsley do agree, and I hope they are asked, wouldn’t it be great if both clubs issued a joint statement prior to explain why Barnsley wore their 3rd kit. It might start fans of other clubs talking more loudly about the issue.

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, GreedyHarry said:

If Barnsley do agree, and I hope they are asked, wouldn’t it be great if both clubs issued a joint statement prior to explain why Barnsley wore their 3rd kit. It might start fans of other clubs talking more loudly about the issue.

Absolutely. The club(s) could both generate some good PR and goodwill from such an event. Huddersfield did so earlier after comments made regarding the kits used in their opening day match.

Honestly, if we ask them to wear white and they refuse, I'd like us to make a statement on that as well. Possibly we do that by wearing Purple at home - and then explain why we are doing such and odd thing.

[Hamdon Mart]

8 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

We have to keep talking about it.

Look at this from Boro v Barnsley last night. Again, Barnsley have a white third kit this season, and Boro have a white away kit. This Red v Green match up could have been so easily avoided. Our game v Barnsley in 9 days time has serious potential to look like this one if Barnsley do not wear their white alternative. If you can add your voice in any way to make sure they do that, we'd all appreciate it.

Barnsley's third kit.

@NIGHTMARE has there been any discussion amongst the Barnsley fanbase regarding your green kit and people struggling to distinguish it?

Sorry, EA, when I said about getting teams to "change" their kit, I meant change as in which one they play other teams in on a set day to avoid this red/green confrontation. That, fed through the right channels in the right way, should be achievable. 

[ExiledAjax]

Checking on Barnsley's kit plans for tomorrow. Nothing confirmed but from this tweet it looks like they're planning on wearing their green (I think it's green)* away kit. This is stupid.

*Yes, confirmed as green on their website - I thought it might be brown - but the press release from launch says "Our PUMA shirt features red and white pin stripes on a deep green backing, complemented by a monocoloured white crest and white ‘The Investment Room’ branding. The kit will be completed with matching green shorts and socks." 

Also, they can keep the green shorts and socks and just wear the white shirt. That avoids a blend with our white shorts. Far from perfect but honestly the decision (if made) to wear an all green kit away to a team in red is absolutely, unequivocally, ******* shambolic.

I don't actually use Twitter - I can see this tweet but don't have an account. Could anyone that uses Twitter possibly reply to the tweet linked here? Maybe copy in Bristol City and just mention that wearing the green away kit will be terrible for colourblind fans. If you can copy in Kieran Maguire, the Colourblind Awareness Org, Scott Murray etc as ell that might possibly help.

I'll be emailing the SC&T as well.

Either Barnsley need to switch to their white third kit, or we should roll out the purple kit at home and use the questions that come from that to highlight the issue and show how mad it is for teams with green kits to wear them at the home stadium of a team with red.

Should the picture above prove indicative only I reserve my right to continue complaining about it anyway. No one should have an all green kit.

@Hamdon Mart @Davefevs @GreedyHarry @1960maaan

Edited October 29, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[stortfordred]

Yes. Madness!

 

Let's get Scotty to put the purple out if nothing is done!!!

[Davefevs]

 

[GreedyHarry]

34 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Checking on Barnsley's kit plans for tomorrow. Nothing confirmed but from this tweet it looks like they're planning on wearing their green (I think it's green)* away kit. This is stupid.

*Yes, confirmed as green on their website - I thought it might be brown - but the press release from launch says "Our PUMA shirt features red and white pin stripes on a deep green backing, complemented by a monocoloured white crest and white ‘The Investment Room’ branding. The kit will be completed with matching green shorts and socks." 

Also, they can keep the green shorts and socks and just wear the white shirt. That avoids a blend with our white shorts. Far from perfect but honestly the decision (if made) to wear an all green kit away to a team in red is absolutely, unequivocally, ******* shambolic.

I don't actually use Twitter - I can see this tweet but don't have an account. Could anyone that uses Twitter possibly reply to the tweet linked here? Maybe copy in Bristol City and just mention that wearing the green away kit will be terrible for colourblind fans. If you can copy in Kieran Maguire, the Colourblind Awareness Org, Scott Murray etc as ell that might possibly help.

I'll be emailing the SC&T as well.

Either Barnsley need to switch to their white third kit, or we should roll out the purple kit at home and use the questions that come from that to highlight the issue and show how mad it is for teams with green kits to wear them at the home stadium of a team with red.

Should the picture above prove indicative only I reserve my right to continue complaining about it anyway. No one should have an all green kit.

@Hamdon Mart @Davefevs @GreedyHarry @1960maaan

Ah, I’m not on Twitter but that photograph if correct means I have another match where it’s very difficult to differentiate. 
I’ll email the Supporters Club & Trust though as I have to do something.

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, stortfordred said:

Yes. Madness!

 

Let's get Scotty to put the purple out if nothing is done!!!

It would be wild, but I'd love it if we did go purple, and put a massive message up on the screens, get Downsy mentioning it on RobinsTV,and a press release explaining why. It would get attention. I appreciate it's not traditional, but for one game it would make a scene.

If you've got twitter please copy Fevs' tweet. If not then an email to the SC&T is about as much as we can do on less than 24 hours' notice I think. info@bristolcitysupporters.org

[GreedyHarry]

Just found the electronic programme in my email and it looks like 1 in 12 of us are in for a difficult afternoon

Edited October 29, 2021 by GreedyHarry

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, GreedyHarry said:

Just found the electronic programme in my email and it looks like 1 in 12 of us are in for a difficult afternoon

I love spending 90 minutes staring at men's thighs in an attempt to distinguish the shorts. 

[GreedyHarry]

I know it’s not as powerful as Twitter but I’ve just put it on my Instagram account. And not sure if I’ve done the @ and # things properly either but it’s worth a try.

Edited October 29, 2021 by GreedyHarry

[ExiledAjax]

12 minutes ago, GreedyHarry said:

I know it’s not as powerful as Twitter but I’ve just put it on my Instagram account. And not sure if I’ve done the @ and # things properly either but it’s worth a try.

Great idea. Thanks.

[1960maaan]

It's not an insignificant number. 18000 means 1500 statistically could suffer. I do honestly think I would stop going if I suffered, and not as though it's a costly or difficult thing to sort out.

 

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

It's not an insignificant number. 18000 means 1500 statistically could suffer. I do honestly think I would stop going if I suffered, and not as though it's a costly or difficult thing to sort out.

I saw that you got retweeted by the Colourblind Awareness Org. Thank you again for helping to raise the profile of the issue.

[1960maaan]

22 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I saw that you got retweeted by the Colourblind Awareness Org. Thank you again for helping to raise the profile of the issue.

No problem, hope it helps in a small way.

[Hamdon Mart]

I was doing my prep earlier this afternoon & noticed we would be having this conversation again tonight. Barnsley played at Middlesbrough two games ago & changed to the green kit as seen in this picture.

 

 

[ExiledAjax]

12 minutes ago, Hamdon Mart said:

I was doing my prep earlier this afternoon & noticed we would be having this conversation again tonight. Barnsley played at Middlesbrough two games ago & changed to the green kit as seen in this picture.

 

 

Yeh, I posted the highlights of that game above. I suspect our game won't be quite  as awful as we have the white shorts rather than red like Boro. However, for those sat high up, or in long camera shots, at corners and the like, it is going to be hard. BBC is forecasting a 25% chance of rain as well, and if it does soak those kits then it will be even worse.

Hope your job isn't too awful tomorrow, and let me know if there is more chat in the press box.

If Gregor could bring this up in the post-match then I'd love it.

[Barkhamred]

Watching QPR v Forest tonight makes me think that they are unlikely to be able to do a late change of kit unless they go with no poppies on the front.

[ExiledAjax]

7 minutes ago, Barkhamred said:

Watching QPR v Forest tonight makes me think that they are unlikely to be able to do a late change of kit unless they go with no poppies on the front.

Ah have they started wearing poppies. Yeh I can't imagine they will change then, unless they have a set of alternatives that also have it.

I won't really be able to tell if Barnsley have poppies on their green shirts or not though!

[GreedyHarry]

57 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ah have they started wearing poppies. Yeh I can't imagine they will change then, unless they have a set of alternatives that also have it.

I won't really be able to tell if Barnsley have poppies on their green shirts or not though!

Exactly!!!

[GreedyHarry]

Just a quick update. Mike from the Supporters Club (who is on here I think) has replied to my email and they have contacted Barnsley FC. Now, whether they are able to react to the email before tomorrow is a different matter. I just thought it was worth highlighting that our club acted on a Friday evening to highlight the problem, and I think that is amazing.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, GreedyHarry said:

Just a quick update. Mike from the Supporters Club (who is on here I think) has replied to my email and they have contacted Barnsley FC. Now, whether they are able to react to the email before tomorrow is a different matter. I just thought it was worth highlighting that our club acted on a Friday evening to highlight the problem, and I think that is amazing.

No acknowledgment from Barnsley on my tweet….not that I expected them to.  Gregor is picking up the baton though.

[ExiledAjax]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No acknowledgment from Barnsley on my tweet….not that I expected them to.  Gregor is picking up the baton though.

I was speaking to Piercy after the Bournemouth game. He said he's actually colourblind as well and has been wanting to do a piece on the issue for a while. Tomorrow is going to to messy, I'd be interested to see how it goes on Twitter. If Gregor wants to chat afterwards then you've got my DM Fevs.

1 hour ago, GreedyHarry said:

Just a quick update. Mike from the Supporters Club (who is on here I think) has replied to my email and they have contacted Barnsley FC. Now, whether they are able to react to the email before tomorrow is a different matter. I just thought it was worth highlighting that our club acted on a Friday evening to highlight the problem, and I think that is amazing.

I've been speaking to Mike since August on this, he's been great at taking it to the Club(s). He said the same to me today, and that the SC&T will be looking at this in more detail going forward.

Edited October 29, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[Dredd]

Out of interest, was this bad again today for those of you affected? Was a little disappointed to see the green kit

[Offside]

4 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Out of interest, was this bad again today for those of you affected? Was a little disappointed to see the green kit

Yes it was awful. If City didn’t wear white shorts I’d really struggle in games like today. 

[Dredd]

Sorry to hear that. Very surprised to see the same clash so soon after it was highlighted in the Bournemouth game

[ExiledAjax]

56 minutes ago, Offside said:

Yes it was awful. If City didn’t wear white shorts I’d really struggle in games like today. 

Yes, thanks for asking @Dredd. Honestly, for me it wasn't as awful as I feared. I watched on RobinsTV and it was bad, but the shorts and clear weather helped a bit. 

It's worst at corners etc, so those second half goal mouth scrambles were tricky.

Not awful, but pretty bad. 

Some will have found it impossible though.

[ExiledAjax]

40 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Sorry to hear that. Very surprised to see the same clash so soon after it was highlighted in the Bournemouth game

Stoke's away kit is light green and they have no third kit. So more joy to come in a couple of games time!

[GreedyHarry]

20 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Stoke's away kit is light green and they have no third kit. So more joy to come in a couple of games time!

See, now this is interesting. If this was a Saturday match in the daylight I’d have no problem with that shade but, a night match, with artificial light, I’m not so sure. 

[A Horse With No Name]

To be fair, its not really an option for a club to change their away kit, or home kit of course, mid way through a season. It would open up a whole can of worms for fans who have purchased replicas, etc. I,m sure this has been mentioned earlier in the thread but couldn't be arsed to look.

[Calculus]

27 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Stoke's away kit is light green and they have no third kit. So more joy to come in a couple of games time!

That's grass coloured. Sneaky...

[ExiledAjax]

38 minutes ago, Calculus said:

That's grass coloured. Sneaky...

Yeh that is actually more my concern. This particular shade of green shouldn't be too much of a blend with our red. Someone with very severe red colour blindness might struggle, but most will be OK.

However, I think we might see complaints from normal sighted people instead.

42 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

To be fair, its not really an option for a club to change their away kit, or home kit of course, mid way through a season. It would open up a whole can of worms for fans who have purchased replicas, etc. I,m sure this has been mentioned earlier in the thread but couldn't be arsed to look.

I don't want them to change a whole kit half way through a season. I

It's more about clubs choosing which match to use the green one in. For example Barnsley could wear that green kit at Fulham, PNE, Derby etc, and wear their white 3rd shirt with the green shorts and socks when they play us. 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

But for Fulham, Derby, Preston they would wear their red surely?

Edited October 30, 2021 by The Horse With No Name

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, The Horse With No Name said:

But for Fulham, Derby, Preston etc they would wear red surely?

If they wanted to sure. But they could wear their away kit there, and then the third kit against red teams. If they want to a) give all 3 kits some airtime to boost sales, and b) want to be considerate to all of their fans, then they should just give a little more thought to which game they use each kit in.

That is all I am asking.

[Davefevs]

On 30/10/2021 at 21:38, ExiledAjax said:

If they wanted to sure. But they could wear their away kit there, and then the third kit against red teams. If they want to a) give all 3 kits some airtime to boost sales, and b) want to be considerate to all of their fans, then they should just give a little more thought to which game they use each kit in.

That is all I am asking.

 

[ExiledAjax]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Cheers. I'd been told they were going to make a statement on the issue soon. It's good to see, and hopefully will lead to some actual changes.

I spoke to the SC&T during the week and they're actively working with the Club. I believe there's an EFL "forum" on the matter this week as well, which City and most of the other 71 clubs will attend.

Scott Murray is also hot on the issue and apparently does make an effort to consider the matter when selecting kit. Through the SC&T I've provided him with my list of recommended kits for our remaining away games. We are limited in what we can do with teams at home, although writing to the EFL is something I think we should have done long ago.

There still needs to be some actual change to accompany the words written and spoken, but some good progress has been made over the past few months.

[ExiledAjax]

Just to put something on record. I know, because I was involved in this, that the Club included the greyscale picture because they know that greyscale is an easy and quick way to show 'normal' sighted people how colour blindness can cause difficulty.

This isn't the Club being ignorant (as perhaps the Colour Blind Awareness Org have assumed), it's actually them being quite informed. I wish they'd clarified this when they tweeted. I also wish they spoken to the CBAO before making a statement - I did make that recommendation.

No big deal I guess, but it irks me when good intentions are then wrongly perceived due to poor communication.

[Offside]

On Saturday I couldn’t distinguish between the colours of the kits worn by the Blackburn keeper and their outfield players. In the second half whenever he caught the ball my first instinct was that we’d get a penalty for handball . 

[SecretSam]

I was watching MOTD over the weekend, couple of teams have a really bright, lemon yellow away kit - looked great. We should do that. We often used to have a yellow away kit, back in the late '80s/early '90s - why not now?

[ExiledAjax]

 

On Saturday I couldn’t distinguish between the colours of the kits worn by the Blackburn keeper and their outfield players. In the second half whenever he caught the ball my first instinct was that we’d get a penalty for handball . 

Yep. Neither could I. I find it the least problematic mix up, but it's still bad. It's a shame as Blackburn's away kit will generally not be a problem for most.

On wednesday Stoke are coming to town. They'll likely wear their green  away kit, with black shorts. It's under the lights so will be bad for some.

Here's their game v Luton from a week or so ago. If anyone can tell these two apart I'll be amazed.

I'm still speaking to clubs and organisations to try and drive some change.

Edited November 22, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[Rudolf Hucker]

 

Yep. Neither could I. I find it the least problematic mix up, but it's still bad. It's a shame as Blackburn's away kit will generally not be a problem for most.

On wednesday Stoke are coming to town. They'll likely wear their green  away kit, with black shorts. It's under the lights so will be bad for some.

Here's their game v Luton from a week or so ago. If anyone can tell these two apart I'll be amazed.

I'm still speaking to clubs and organisations to try and drive some change.

I just don’t get the EFL (or any other footballing body) allowing opposing teams to wear the same colour shorts. There was a time when all elements of the kits had to contrast - when did that rule change and why ffs?

[ExiledAjax]

 

I just don’t get the EFL (or any other footballing body) allowing opposing teams to wear the same colour shorts. There was a time when all elements of the kits had to contrast - when did that rule change and why ffs?

A very good point. shorts and socks make a small difference. Our match v Stoke will be slightly easier than Luton v Stoke, as we should be in white shorts v Stoke's black. It's still going to be red v green, but the shorts will at least assist a little.

As for the rules, well it's a little complicated.

Firstly - when designing the kits a club wants to use for an upcoming season, they have to "...ensure that the colour of the shirt, shorts and socks for each kit is different to and would sufficiently contrast against the other kits registered by the Club." (Guidance to EFL Reg 38.1) So basically your home, away, and third kit must all have different shorts and socks as well as shirts.

Then EFL Reg 38.3 says "When away from home a Club shall play in a registered kit which is clearly distinguishable (shirt, shorts and socks) from those of their opponents. This requirement shall apply strictly in respect of shirts and socks. Where both Clubs request to play in the same, or similar, coloured shorts then an application to do so shall be made to the appointed match referee whose consent shall not be unreasonably withheld." So the onus is on the away team to ensure that the kit they choose is "clearly distinguishable" from the home kit. however, they can make an application to the referee to play in the same short. The presumption is that this application will be accepted. I assume this happened in Luton v Stoke.

But the Guidance to EFL Reg 38.1 also says that "When considering selection of colours of shirts / socks, Clubs should have regard to the guidance issued by the Football Association on helping those affected by colour blindness...". Now, to me this means that the application in Luton v Stoke should have been rejected. Stoke should have been told to wear the white shorts that go with their home kit.

The Guidance to EFL Reg 38.3 goes on to say;

The order of precedence when determining kit colours for any fixture is as follows:

• Home club outfield
• Away club outfield
• Home goalkeeper
• Away goalkeeper
• Match officials

Clubs are required to resolve any potential clash in advance of match day. Match Officials should ensure they find the playing kits of both teams acceptable. The Football Services Department in liaison with PGMOL will adjudicate if necessary and reserves the right to relax the requirement in respect of shorts where appropriate and after consultation with match officials.

A breach of this Regulation is designated a strict liability offence as detailed in Regulation 87.

The potential clash between Luton and stoke clearly was not resolved before match day. If the Match Officials though thse kits were ok then they were wrong. And they should not have relaxed the requirement on shorts.

Regulation 87 allows clubs to be fined for this kind of stuff. 

No-one will be fined.

[1960maaan]

There is at least, some recognition and reaction. Fair play Plymouth.

 

[shahanshahan]

Colour blindness issue has re-emerged today. Remi Allen for Aston Villa Women tweeted that she is colourblind, and said that the kit worn by West Ham Women in their WSL game wasn't the best....

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by shahanshahan

[1960maaan]

That is truly awful. Even I would struggle with that, not even a simple "dark shorts" contrast. 
By now Ref's should have the power to sort things out, the colours are chosen in advance and the Ref would know it's their game. Just send him the choices and give him a common sense veto.

[ExiledAjax]

26 minutes ago, shahanshahan said:

Colour blindness issue has re-emerged today. Remi Allen for Aston Villa Women tweeted that she is colourblind, and said that the kit worn by West Ham Women in their WSL game wasn't the best....

 

Is this even any good for those with standard colour vision? 

[ExiledAjax]

23 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

By now Ref's should have the power to sort things out, the colours are chosen in advance and the Ref would know it's their game. Just send him the choices and give him a common sense veto.

But that is how it works at our level already, and there are still major issues.

I have to give props to our Club and in particular Richard Gould and Scotty though. Since I started this thread and spoke to the Club about it there's been no issues for me - and I've not seen much talk about it on social media etc either which suggests that others haven't been suffering.

Boro at home on Feb 19th could be tricky as IIRC they have only a red home kit or this (apparently) green* away kit to choose from...and neither are a good choice when playing against a team that wears red. Not sure what we can really do bar getting dispensation from the EFL to wear our purple kit at home - which people would complain about.

Hopefully next season's kits will be a bit easier to work with (ie I hope we go for a white away kit).

*Is it really green? I would swear it is black. Anyway, it's shite.

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

*Is it really green? I would swear it is black. Anyway, it's shite.

Dark green I'd say.

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Boro at home on Feb 19th could be tricky as IIRC they have only a red home kit or this (apparently) green* away kit to choose from

Surely this is why most teams have a 3rd kit. Bizarre they don't .

 

[GreedyHarry]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

But that is how it works at our level already, and there are still major issues.

I have to give props to our Club and in particular Richard Gould and Scotty though. Since I started this thread and spoke to the Club about it there's been no issues for me - and I've not seen much talk about it on social media etc either which suggests that others haven't been suffering.

Boro at home on Feb 19th could be tricky as IIRC they have only a red home kit or this (apparently) green* away kit to choose from...and neither are a good choice when playing against a team that wears red. Not sure what we can really do bar getting dispensation from the EFL to wear our purple kit at home - which people would complain about.

Hopefully next season's kits will be a bit easier to work with (ie I hope we go for a white away kit).

*Is it really green? I would swear it is black. Anyway, it's shite.

That’s blinking black! A lot of other clubs have worn their away strip at home this year in support of a homeless charity so it can definitely be done.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, GreedyHarry said:

That’s blinking black! A lot of other clubs have worn their away strip at home this year in support of a homeless charity so it can definitely be done.

It can, there's a specific EFL regulation that every team is allowed to ask for dispensation to wear a kit different to their ordinary home kit. You get one game every season if you apply for it.

It was this process that allowed us to wear that 'special' kit for the 125th anniversary game against Fulham in 2020. 

[shahanshahan]

Forgot to tweet this at the time, but interesting that earlier this month, City Women played away at Lewes wearing their black away kit. However, Lewes ended up wearing their white away kit as well. Their home kit of red & black stripes would clash with both City kits (and for some reason, the purple & like third kit wasn't introduced for the women this season).

Maggie Murphy at Lewes confirmed that their club received the request to change kits, to help those with visual impairments...

 

[ExiledAjax]

14 minutes ago, shahanshahan said:

Forgot to tweet this at the time, but interesting that earlier this month, City Women played away at Lewes wearing their black away kit. However, Lewes ended up wearing their white away kit as well. Their home kit of red & black stripes would clash with both City kits (and for some reason, the purple & like third kit wasn't introduced for the women this season).

Maggie Murphy at Lewes confirmed that their club received the request to change kits, to help those with visual impairments...

 

Excellent. I assume the below is the home kit in question (taken from their website)? If so then yeh, had they worn that then honestly I think it would have caused problems for most people, let alone those with colour vision issues. Basically as if we wore our black kit away to Bournemouth in a few weeks - btw I have recommended to Scotty and the Club that we give the purple and lime a run out when we make that trip.

[shahanshahan]

Exactly @ExiledAjax. The third kit was worn when we played Sheffield United away back in November, so makes sense for Bournemouth away.

City Women are away to Sheffield United Women at the end of this month, but I don't expect Sheff Utd to wear their away kit with ours - as that is black!

[ExiledAjax]

Just watching MOTD. Can't believe there are still issues in the Prem with kit blends.

I find it next to impossible to distinguish Liverpool and Bournemouth in the long camera shot here. 

All red (and a dark red at that) v all black is commonly known to be problematic for colourblind fans. Football clubs, officials,  leagues, and designers all know it.

Bournemouth should have worn the blue away kit. Easy solution that doesn't make it shit watching for 12% of the male population.

[Sleepy1968]

22 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Just watching MOTD. Can't believe there are still issues in the Prem with kit blends.

I find it next to impossible to distinguish Liverpool and Bournemouth in the long camera shot here. 

All red (and a dark red at that) v all black is commonly known to be problematic for colourblind fans. Football clubs, officials,  leagues, and designers all know it.

Bournemouth should have worn the blue away kit. Easy solution that doesn't make it shit watching for 12% of the male population.

I think Bournemouth wore green at Ashton Gate last season. To me it was like trying to spot a tiger in the long grass - just without the fatal consequences that come with getting that wrong. I'm sure it was annoying for non-colourblind supporters that day as well.

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I think Bournemouth wore green at Ashton Gate last season. To me it was like trying to spot a tiger in the long grass - just without the fatal consequences that come with getting that wrong. I'm sure it was annoying for non-colourblind supporters that day as well.

See my opening post on this thread!

And then please read the one a little further down where I apologise for my sweariness and anger.

Edited August 28, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[ExiledAjax]

Something just on this, from a different perspective this time. Might be of interest to people.

 

This podcast, at about 32:50 in features ex Ipswich and Charlton player Matt Holland talk a little bit about his experience as a professional player with colourblindness. He speaks interestingly about the time he played on his pre-season debut for Charlton, in red, against Plymouth, in green. 

 

https://audioboom.com/posts/8158641-what-the-efl-episode-4-diamond-house

[1960maaan]

[GreedyHarry]

Not football related but I was told about the colour filters in the settings for Microsoft Windows last week. It doesn’t allow you to see the same as others but there are colour blind options that make differentiation better. For the first time ever I can actually see the “I’ve responded to your questions in red” bits. Mind blowing!