A tinge of doubt creeping in

[Kid in the Riot]

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

[Kodjias Wrist]

Watford were relegation fodder in the prem at the time and did he not get them out of relegation zone only to be sacked?

 

 

[BasSavage88]

He's a footballing dinosaur. Put him to rest along with Mick McCarthy, Neil Warnock etc

[Sturny]

Knowing his recent record, why do you still think he’s the best person for the job? Surely it’s best to catch someone on the rise not their fall? People are a bit touchy on here at the moment, so my questions come in peace as I’m just curious 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Sturny

[Red Army 75]

I think any manager at this time who accepted the job would struggle at Bristol City. 

[054123]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

Of course there’s every chance he can’t turn this ship around, I would accept that.

My ire is more with how we ended up in 2021 with a bag of shit squad and all the money squandered to the point that FFP was looming like the grim specter of death.

[Dredd]

Pearson isn’t the problem imo it’s the mess of a squad he’s inherited and lack of budget to address it

[Sturny]

2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

I think any manager at this time who accepted the job would struggle at Bristol City. 

I’d would really like to believe this, I’ve hated not liking the managers at our club for a while and want Pearson to kick on well. But idk 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Sturny

[cidercity1987]

26 points in 22 PL games blimey I would take that any day. No idea about Leuven, a bad spell at Derby but his record here is about as good as it can be in the situation

[Fuber]

Key factor is that Pearson's infrastructure and micro delegation and appointments at Leicester remain the backbone of that club.

If he can do the same here and lay the ground work, thats enough imo.

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

26 points in 22 PL games blimey I would take that any day. No idea about Leuven, a bad spell at Derby but his record here is about as good as it can be in the situation

Derby he had a bust with dear old Mel Morris.

[Sturny]

Just now, Fuber said:

Key factor is that Pearson's infrastructure and micro delegation and appointments at Leicester remain the backbone of that club.

If he can do the same here and lay the ground work, thats enough imo.

He couldn’t do that at the past 3 clubs so why are we any special/different ?

[S25loyal]

5 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Knowing his recent record, why do you still think he’s the best person for the job? Surely it’s best to catch someone on the rise not their fall? People are a bit touchy on here at the moment, so my questions come in peace as I’m just curious 

We’re Bristol city, who will we get with a good record that is on the rise?

[Sturny]

Just now, S25loyal said:

We’re Bristol city, who will we get with a good record that is on the rise?

I suppose they don’t need a really good record, on the rise is enough. If it was just a good record appointment then yes NP was as good as it gets for us. 

[Fuber]

Just now, Sturny said:

He couldn’t do that at the past 3 clubs so why are we any special/different ?

1. Watford shouldn't have even sacked him in the first place - worked really well that.

2. I never judge an English manager on an overseas record, sometime it's a case of right man right clubs (Us, GJ; Moyes, West Ham, etc.).

3. Mel Morris.

We are ****** with regards to playing staff, but we at least aren't in Europe ergo abroad, and we have stable ownership and facilities.

If we give him actual time, something he clearly didn't get at Derby or Watford, only then can I judge him.

Ergo this season is a consolidation, next season I'll expect more progression. COYR.

[TV Tom]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

 but his record here is about as good as it can be in the situation

Are you joking, it could barely be worse, how come Cooper can go to Forest with just 1 point from 7 games and immediately turn it around yet Pearson cannot win a home game in 8 months, like Hughton and most of the older managers around they are way behind the times, I said in the summer that we missed a trick by not going for Cooper or the new Swansea manager

[S25loyal]

Just now, Sturny said:

I suppose they don’t need a really good record, on the rise is enough. If it was just a good record appointment then yes NP was as good as it gets for us. 

The problem is, with on the rise people then complain we never get an established manager, as historically we never have done.

Nigel is the “biggest” manager we have had.

[Edgy Red]

Nige still has my backing at this stage but i do worry that his management/playing style is becoming a bit outdated.

The old fashioned "build from the back" pragmatic managers (Hughton, McCarthy and Hodgson etc) are finding success harder to come by in the modern game and are being outfoxed by expressive attack minded coaches such as Potter, Howe and Nathan Jones.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it was painfully clear that we needed some offensive reinforcements during the summer, even if they were loans or lower league punts.

I really hope i'm wrong and he can get us going but i am starting to worry a bit now. Tonights result is another damaging outcome that must be affecting the players and staffs confidence and may start to become difficult to shake off?

[Kid in the Riot]

2 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

We’re Bristol city, who will we get with a good record that is on the rise?

The likes of Ryan Lowe for example, a young manager who hasn't stopped winning at Plymouth. 

So far this thread has had the reassuring responses I wanted to see. As I said, it's only a tinge of doubt right now. I just worry that a manager can lose that culture of winning, and that appears to be a factor here with Pearson, over many years. 

Not expecting much at WBA but Barnsley at home on the 30th feels like we really need a win. They've only won one game all season, so far. 

[Waconda]

10 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

26 points in 22 PL games blimey I would take that any day. No idea about Leuven, a bad spell at Derby but his record here is about as good as it can be in the situation

Jesus Christ !

[Sturny]

5 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

The problem is, with on the rise people then complain we never get an established manager, as historically we never have done.

Nigel is the “biggest” manager we have had.

I don’t feel like the owners care what we think as much as we think, DH is an example of that IMO. 
 

I agree he is the “biggest” name we could pull out of the hat, but the best for us? Idk anymore. I would say “time will tell” but looking back it’s sorta telling us something. I was completely sold on the NP project but similar to the OP I’m not as confidence as I was! 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Sturny

[054123]

4 minutes ago, harrys said:

Are you joking, it could barely be worse, how come Cooper can go to Forest with just 1 point from 7 games and immediately turn it around yet Pearson cannot win a home game in 8 months, like Hughton and most of the older managers around they are way behind the times, I said in the summer that we missed a trick by not going for Cooper or the new Swansea manager

I do see your point, I just have such a lack of belief in our current squad I almost can’t believe somebody else could string 5 wins together 

[ChippenhamRed]

17 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

He's a footballing dinosaur. Put him to rest along with Mick McCarthy, Neil Warnock etc

Neil Warnock who was promoted from the Championship in 2018? And Mick McCarthy who kept Ipswich in the Championship on a shoestring for years? Those dinosaurs yeah?

[ChippenhamRed]

22 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

I share your doubts, a little, but for now I’m pragmatic about it. The home form is a monkey on our back we need to deal with as soon as we can, but at the end of the day we’re a mid-table side in mid-table, and I’m willing to give Pearson the time he needs to build a team.

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The likes of Ryan Lowe for example, a young manager who hasn't stopped winning at Plymouth. 

So far this thread has had the reassuring responses I wanted to see. As I said, it's only a tinge of doubt right now. I just worry that a manager can lose that culture of winning, and that appears to be a factor here with Pearson, over many years. 

Not expecting much at WBA but Barnsley at home on the 30th feels like we really need a win. They've only won one game all season, so far. 

We are more likely to win at West Brom than at Home to Barnsley !

Just a thought but might he walk away ? Health issues, lack of budget, left with perceived terrible players (rightly or wrongly). Hope not and I really hope he proves me wrong but currently this is way below expectations and consistent problems are not being corrected - IMO.

[petehinton]

He’s certainly going to do himself No favours the longer the home rot runs. QPR, Peterboro, Reading all brilliant snd fun away days the can mask over the home games to date, to a certain extend. 
 

Issue is, about 5% of our home crowd can make those sorts of games. If the overwhelming majority of fans are just seeing the dross we’ve served up at AG so far this season, it’d be hard to warm to Nige so far. 
 

Still the right man for me. Just can’t see it being remotely pretty until he has another summer transfer window under him

[Xiled]

My main concern is that he felt the two Leicester players would improve us.

Poor judgement of the level both are now capable of playing, not cheap wages and signed during a summer when our limited buying needed to spot on.

[Portland Bill]

19 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

I think any manager at this time who accepted the job would struggle at Bristol City. 

Ryan Lowe was the man we should have got, but he wasn’t a big enough name for most on here.

His record speaks for himself. 

[Ostrich]

I think you might have brought him in too late in a sense. For both yours and his sake, had he been with you when he was at Leuven things probably would have been better all round because he may well have been able to influence a better structure that meant you didn’t spaff millions on some of the dross that you’ve had.

Leuven didn’t work out for many reasons, I think he said himself he made big mistakes and took his eye off the football trying to be involved in too much at the club. Leuven fans will also say he was naive to the division and for a long time it was pretty grim - that he almost took them down is pretty bad, had he done that would have been scandalous for their budget in that league.

But also he’s clearly taken the wrong jobs. He said he should never have taken the Derby job, and looking at Derby it’s not hard to see why that might be, Watford was never going to suit him (although he did ok there) and Leuven, sits between.

Idk whether he can succeed but he has to be given time to stamp his mark on the side. He’s had a summer operating in a structure that has blatantly failed and has only been able to bring in 3 players that can play plus 2 more bodies. Culture was so vital to what he built at Leicester that he will struggle to succeed anywhere where he doesn’t get the chance to stamp his mark in that respect. I’m not saying you’ve got a bunch of wrong ‘uns but he was fortunate at Leicester that he a)had some of his players left from his first spell and b)was able to spend a bit of cash early and add his bodies quickly, getting pretty much spot on too.

 The home form is rotten, there’s no excuses. It’s worth saying we had some dire spells with him in charge too. 12/13 where we won about 3 games in 20 at the end of the season, bottling promotion and culminating in the Deeney moment. The Great Escape was also not possible without the 3 wins in 26 or whatever it was before that.

For me, from what I’ve seen, the squad he has had consistently available just isn’t quite there. Players like Palmer and Bakinson remind me of players like Neil Danns and Matt Mills who Pearson wanted shot of cos they’re just not right for the environment he wants. Players like O’Dowda are just a bit meh. Martin scored a few but I’m not sure what else he offers

Having said that I think Williams (not seen a huge amount of admittedly), James and Massengo could be a really decent midfield 3 if they got consistent time on the pitch together, Bentley is a decent keeper, and the options at CB are alright. It’s around that there’s a problem, both in the first 11 and the depth. Just a real lack of pace, power and technique. It’s a squad that is where it probably should be, it’s not miles off but needs some upgrades and the thing is, even with the transfers that didn’t quite work out, I struggle to fault the recruitment during either of his spells at Leicester. Whether that was just right man, right place, right time or whether he can replicate it, idk

[054123]

1 minute ago, Xiled said:

My main concern is that he felt the two Leicester players would improve us.

Poor judgement of the level both are now capable of playing, not cheap wages and signed during a summer when our limited buying needed to spot on.

I think James has done alright.

Given how I presume their contracts are accounted for I don’t see them as bad signings.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, Ostrich said:

I think you might have brought him in too late in a sense. For both yours and his sake, had he been with you when he was at Leuven things probably would have been better all round because he may well have been able to influence a better structure that meant you didn’t spaff millions on some of the dross that you’ve had.

Leuven didn’t work out for many reasons, I think he said himself he made big mistakes and took his eye off the football trying to be involved in too much at the club. Leuven fans will also say he was naive to the division and for a long time it was pretty grim - that he almost took them down is pretty bad, had he done that would have been scandalous for their budget in that league.

But also he’s clearly taken the wrong jobs. He said he should never have taken the Derby job, and looking at Derby it’s not hard to see why that might be, Watford was never going to suit him (although he did ok there) and Leuven, sits between.

Idk whether he can succeed but he has to be given time to stamp his mark on the side. He’s had a summer operating in a structure that has blatantly failed and has only been able to bring in 3 players that can play plus 2 more bodies. Culture was so vital to what he built at Leicester that he will struggle to succeed anywhere where he doesn’t get the chance to stamp his mark in that respect. I’m not saying you’ve got a bunch of wrong ‘uns but he was fortunate at Leicester that he a)had some of his players left from his first spell and b)was able to spend a bit of cash early and add his bodies quickly, getting pretty much spot on too.

 The home form is rotten, there’s no excuses. It’s worth saying we had some dire spells with him in charge too. 12/13 where we won about 3 games in 20 at the end of the season, bottling promotion and culminating in the Deeney moment. The Great Escape was also not possible without the 3 wins in 26 or whatever it was before that.

For me, from what I’ve seen, the squad he has had consistently available just isn’t quite there. Players like Palmer and Bakinson remind me of players like Neil Danns and Matt Mills who Pearson wanted shot of cos they’re just not right for the environment he wants. Players like O’Dowda are just a bit meh. Martin scored a few but I’m not sure what else he offers

Having said that I think Williams (not seen a huge amount of admittedly), James and Massengo could be a really decent midfield 3 if they got consistent time on the pitch together, Bentley is a decent keeper, and the options at CB are alright. It’s around that there’s a problem, both in the first 11 and the depth. Just a real lack of pace, power and technique. It’s a squad that is where it probably should be, it’s not miles off but needs some upgrades and the thing is, even with the transfers that didn’t quite work out, I struggle to fault the recruitment during either of his spells at Leicester. Whether that was just right man, right place, right time or whether he can replicate it, idk

Just to say, I would agree that his choice of jobs since Leicester has been very poor: Derby, helping out the DoF at Leicester by going to Leuven, and Watford - always a short term appointment.

I think that makes me feel less confident in his judgement though. 

[cidercity1987]

4 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Ryan Lowe was the man we should have got, but he wasn’t a big enough name for most on here.

His record speaks for himself. 

Some of us were banging that drum 2 seasons ago when LJ left. A bit late now

[mozo]

My worry is this...

Martin, Wells, King, Palmer, O'Dowda, Bakinson, Simpson all need to be replaced in Summer 2022 or 2023.

But we don't have the transfer budget to buy quality in 7 positions.

So we then could sell. But losing Massengo, Kalas or Bentley leaves a big hole in the squad which again requires investment.

How do we reshape the squad?

[red colin]

19 minutes ago, harrys said:

Are you joking, it could barely be worse, how come Cooper can go to Forest with just 1 point from 7 games and immediately turn it around yet Pearson cannot win a home game in 8 months, like Hughton and most of the older managers around they are way behind the times, I said in the summer that we missed a trick by not going for Cooper or the new Swansea manager

They have better players 

[Waconda]

Just now, red colin said:

They have better players 

Disagree. Very similar squad strength.

[Rob k]

Just now, cidercity1987 said:

Some of us were banging that drum 2 seasons ago when LJ left. A bit late now

Only one man to blame for the mess were in and that’s SL, he can’t stick to a plan and chops and changes his strategy with every appointment. 
He got Holden so badly wrong that he couldn’t then go and get a Lowe, he was pushed in to his own corner with the NP appointment.

However, I’m not moving from my stance that this is a free hit season for NP to sort the shit out that’s needed. Anything other than relegation was acceptable for me This season 

[tin]

The home form is abysmal, no getting away from it, but I’m on board with a three-year project to rebuild the club from the rabble left by Mark Ashton and nobody should be under any illusions as to the mess he’s left. 

The signings of Atkinson and Tanner give me hope that more of those types will follow. Maybe not this year as I firmly expect a bottom-six struggle, but certainly the deeper we move into the project. 

The bottom line is how much time people are willing to give it, but in my experience nothing lasts for ever and this home form has to turn at some point soon (I always thought Barnsley was more likely than a rejuvenated Forest). 

[LondonBristolian]

I think Pearson has done an important job. He’s largely stabilised us, brought down the size of the squad, bought two quality players from the lower leagues and integrated some younger players and it feels like he has made some changes to the infrastructure too. All of this needed to be done and was going to be a shitshow for whoever did it.

In that sense, I think he has been a good appointment and I don’t think it has been a mistake in any sense to give him the job. 

At the same time, it sometimes proves the case that the person brought in to clear up the mess isn’t the person who gets to enjoy the benefits of the mess being cleared up. I think we saw that with SOD. It is very hard to look back at his time in charge with any fondness but I don’t think Cotterill could have done the job he did if he had replaced McInnes straight off the bat. 

It may be that Pearson ultimately does not succeed and, if that were the case, I would love to see someone like Ryan Lowe get the chance. But I think, whenever they are appointed, our next manager will be far better placed to succeed with what they inherit from Pearson than they would have been with what Pearson inherited from Holden or what Holden inherited from Johnson.

I have no idea if Pearson will succeed in the long term but I think the job he is doing will help the club to do so.

[RedRaw]

21 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

Nigel is the “biggest” manager we have had.

I dunno……Benny was a bit of a lump

[HappyClapper]

Wasn’t Nige’s success at Leicester built around successful recruitment? Identifying a profile of player that he wanted. Young, hungry, room for growth etc. Add Vardy and Mahrez and you’ve got something special.

I think he’s slowly doing that here. Too slowly for many of us, but he is hamstrung by losses due to Covid, FFP and the fact the last regime pissed a windfall away. If you look at the players he has brought in so far they have been a success (relatively). Simpson, King and James to set some standards and steady the ship. Atkinson and Tanner to develop into top players. 

There are going to be some bumps. We need time for Nige to bring some players in and for some talented youngsters to develop. I would imagine he is as frustrated as any of us with the way the game finished. That said we were on the wrong side of a number of big calls.

Time for steady heads and to keep the faith.

(However, I am prepared to lose my sh** if we lose to Barnsley)

[Redrascal2]

My fear is if we do not keep up our excellent  away record then we will start sinking pretty quickly to the bottom of the table. How Lansdown expected,with  the players we have and such minimal backing for NP, this squad to flourish this season is beyond me. I hope NP stays and can perform the miracle of keeping us up. And then Mr Lansdown give the man some support in the transfer market starting in January. 

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, HappyClapper said:

Wasn’t Nige’s success at Leicester built around successful recruitment? Identifying a profile of player that he wanted. Young, hungry, room for growth etc. Add Vardy and Mahrez and you’ve got something special.

I think he’s slowly doing that here. Too slowly for many of us, but he is hamstrung by losses due to Covid, FFP and the fact the last regime pissed a windfall away. If you look at the players he has brought in so far they have been a success (relatively). Simpson, King and James to set some standards and steady the ship. Atkinson and Tanner to develop into top players. 

There are going to be some bumps. We need time for Nige to bring some players in and for some talented youngsters to develop. I would imagine he is as frustrated as any of us with the way the game finished. That said we were on the wrong side of a number of big calls.

Time for steady heads and to keep the faith.

(However, I am prepared to lose my sh** if we lose to Barnsley)

Uh Oh !!

[Jeez]

7 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Only one man to blame for the mess were in and that’s SL, he can’t stick to a plan and chops and changes his strategy with every appointment. 
He got Holden so badly wrong that he couldn’t then go and get a Lowe, he was pushed in to his own corner with the NP appointment.

However, I’m not moving from my stance that this is a free hit season for NP to sort the shit out that’s needed. Anything other than relegation was acceptable for me This season 

Agreed, we’re continue to pay the price for Holden’s appointment & keeping LJ too long. How he signed it off I still don’t know.

LJ I can see why they tried to keep him past sell his by date, but Holden’s appointment was simply ridiculous, I don’t think there’s single supporter out there who thought it worth any kind of shot.

I quite like Pearson & prefer to stick with him for now, but he needs to overcome the mentality that creeps in the last 20 mins of home games. 

 

[Banjo Red]

52 minutes ago, mozo said:

My worry is this...

Martin, Wells, King, Palmer, O'Dowda, Bakinson, Simpson all need to be replaced in Summer 2022 or 2023.

But we don't have the transfer budget to buy quality in 7 positions.

So we then could sell. But losing Massengo, Kalas or Bentley leaves a big hole in the squad which again requires investment.

How do we reshape the squad?

I don't know who we will get in but there is still plenty of dead wood in that squad tonight. Nige is still the answer I feel he needs to move on quite few he was left with.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

Kid, I think his role will change in time here, more onto a General Manager / DoF type (ignore the name of the role for now), with a younger manager beneath him, taking more match responsibility..

Its who Lee Johnson needed, someone to tell him to cut the crap, etc.

I don’t know the timeframe, but the “plan” is more than a manager’s responsibility and I see Nige having a side remit at the mo’.  That remit will narrow in time.  I think it will suit his work / life balance which is important to him, especially after illness.

I think we have to accept this team isn’t his….and I feel the project doesn’t end with Nige as first team manager, but that’s not saying the club doesn’t succeed in his time here….it’s just gonna be with different responsibilities.

Tonight is gutting.

Weathered a 10-12 minutes spell first half by Forest to take the lead.

They came out flying, we weathered it again.  Scott gets brought down (imho) for a penalty, Samba makes a brilliant finger tip save from Wells (tipped it onto the post, ref gives goal kick.  They start to go long.

There switch with Mighten coming on gave them fresh impetus.  Rush of blood from Baker who was brilliant tonight, Bentley palms a ball out onto Taylor’s arm.

Its a bit unlucky isn’t it?

 

[zippycar]

1 hour ago, harrys said:

Are you joking, it could barely be worse, how come Cooper can go to Forest with just 1 point from 7 games and immediately turn it around yet Pearson cannot win a home game in 8 months, like Hughton and most of the older managers around they are way behind the times, I said in the summer that we missed a trick by not going for Cooper or the new Swansea manager

This

[RedM]

I’m surprised he hasn’t been able to get more out of the players, or is that really all some of them can give?

Shoots of green seeing the youngsters come through and Massengo pre injury played better under him than previously. 

At any other club the manager will be under pressure, but that’s not our way rightly or wrongly.

[Rob k]

46 minutes ago, RedM said:

I’m surprised he hasn’t been able to get more out of the players, or is that really all some of them can give?

Shoots of green seeing the youngsters come through and Massengo pre injury played better under him than previously. 

At any other club the manager will be under pressure, but that’s not our way rightly or wrongly.

For me it’s slightly different this season as i do truly believe the priority with this lot was to just stay up, offload what we can and start again. For me there was no expectations for this season so I’m more relaxed than most about what’s going on. That’s not to say i won’t ever change my mind.

[WarksRobin]

7 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

Alternative take is he does well when given time

[LondonBristolian]

52 minutes ago, RedM said:

I’m surprised he hasn’t been able to get more out of the players, or is that really all some of them can give?

Shoots of green seeing the youngsters come through and Massengo pre injury played better under him than previously. 

At any other club the manager will be under pressure, but that’s not our way rightly or wrongly.

I get what you mean but - at the same time - I couldn’t actually tell you who I thought played badly last night. Baker had a disastrous last two minutes but, had the game finished on the ninety minute mark, I think we would have seen it as a decent, solid performance all around.

The issue for me isn’t player performances but the players we don’t have. We don’t have any pacy players, we don’t have any creative players, we don’t have a quality finisher and we’ve run Martin into the ground due to a lack of options to hold the ball up.  Plus the few options we have for running and impetus in midfield are either injured or recovering from injury.

I’m frustrated with how we are doing but - short of spending money that presumably is not there with FFP on players who may not have been available or attainable in the summer in any case - I don’t think any manager would find quick fixes.

[TV Tom]

7 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The likes of Ryan Lowe for example, a young manager who hasn't stopped winning at Plymouth. 

 

Lowe was getting terrible stick down there at one time and many of the fans wanted him gone, certainly turned it around now though 

[CityCiderEd]

7 hours ago, Ostrich said:

I think you might have brought him in too late in a sense. For both yours and his sake, had he been with you when he was at Leuven things probably would have been better all round because he may well have been able to influence a better structure that meant you didn’t spaff millions on some of the dross that you’ve had.

Leuven didn’t work out for many reasons, I think he said himself he made big mistakes and took his eye off the football trying to be involved in too much at the club. Leuven fans will also say he was naive to the division and for a long time it was pretty grim - that he almost took them down is pretty bad, had he done that would have been scandalous for their budget in that league.

But also he’s clearly taken the wrong jobs. He said he should never have taken the Derby job, and looking at Derby it’s not hard to see why that might be, Watford was never going to suit him (although he did ok there) and Leuven, sits between.

Idk whether he can succeed but he has to be given time to stamp his mark on the side. He’s had a summer operating in a structure that has blatantly failed and has only been able to bring in 3 players that can play plus 2 more bodies. Culture was so vital to what he built at Leicester that he will struggle to succeed anywhere where he doesn’t get the chance to stamp his mark in that respect. I’m not saying you’ve got a bunch of wrong ‘uns but he was fortunate at Leicester that he a)had some of his players left from his first spell and b)was able to spend a bit of cash early and add his bodies quickly, getting pretty much spot on too.

 The home form is rotten, there’s no excuses. It’s worth saying we had some dire spells with him in charge too. 12/13 where we won about 3 games in 20 at the end of the season, bottling promotion and culminating in the Deeney moment. The Great Escape was also not possible without the 3 wins in 26 or whatever it was before that.

For me, from what I’ve seen, the squad he has had consistently available just isn’t quite there. Players like Palmer and Bakinson remind me of players like Neil Danns and Matt Mills who Pearson wanted shot of cos they’re just not right for the environment he wants. Players like O’Dowda are just a bit meh. Martin scored a few but I’m not sure what else he offers

Having said that I think Williams (not seen a huge amount of admittedly), James and Massengo could be a really decent midfield 3 if they got consistent time on the pitch together, Bentley is a decent keeper, and the options at CB are alright. It’s around that there’s a problem, both in the first 11 and the depth. Just a real lack of pace, power and technique. It’s a squad that is where it probably should be, it’s not miles off but needs some upgrades and the thing is, even with the transfers that didn’t quite work out, I struggle to fault the recruitment during either of his spells at Leicester. Whether that was just right man, right place, right time or whether he can replicate it, idk

Perfect summary of the club at this time.

[Rob k]

19 minutes ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

I think you will be in for a nasty shock if you think Bentley has any suitors. Another Parry in to the opposition for the winner last night, erratic shot stopper still needs dropping imo. He can have all the QPR games he wants it will never compare to having a consistent number 1.  

Totally - how he’s beyond criticism for last nights goal is beyond me. It was an awful parry 

[Fordy62]

Everyone was prepared to accept Lee Johnson’s 3 (8) transfer windows. 

But it seems the same patience can’t be afforded to Nige by some people. 

The cupboard was very much bare when Nige moved in. 

[ExiledAjax]

7 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Ryan Lowe was the man we should have got, but he wasn’t a big enough name for most on here.

His record speaks for himself. 

He was top of my list as well. Believe he signed a new contract at Plymouth either just before LJ left or just before DH went. That put the stoppers on any approach.

[DaveInSA]

Forest have better players than us on the grass.

I’ve seen so much hyperbole on OTIB in my time lurking in here.

‘We have a top 6 squad on paper’ is the classic.

We don’t. We made a massive charitable  donation to Chelsea, for three players who don’t perform at the levels they’re capable of. 

This is true for a lot of the squad.

Football isn’t played on paper, it’s played on grass.

[Unan]

I think he’d be a great Director of Football, we need both right now, I don’t see a better option.

[Edgy Red]

13 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

Forest have better players than us on the grass.

I’ve seen so much hyperbole on OTIB in my time lurking in here.

‘We have a top 6 squad on paper’ is the classic.

We don’t. We made a massive charitable  donation to Chelsea, for three players who don’t perform at the levels they’re capable of. 

This is true for a lot of the squad.

Football isn’t played on paper, it’s played on grass.

Spot on... The money spent on the 3 Chelsea boys was huge by our standards and 2 out of the 3 have been a big disapointment for me. I know alot of people rate Jay DaSilva (and he is technically decent) but he hasn't produced anywhere near enough to justify his fee.

Palmer has been a disaster and whilst Kalas has done ok, the reported 8million fee still seems high (although the world was in a different place then).

Our squad is bottom half Champ and recruitment has been poor for quite a few years.

[MarcusX]

9 hours ago, Sturny said:

He couldn’t do that at the past 3 clubs so why are we any special/different ?

1 win in 15 when he arrived at Watford, 3 points above the relegation zone when he was sacked - albeit with Man City and Arsenal to play

[MarcusX]

30 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

Forest have better players than us on the grass.

I’ve seen so much hyperbole on OTIB in my time lurking in here.

‘We have a top 6 squad on paper’ is the classic.

We don’t. We made a massive charitable  donation to Chelsea, for three players who don’t perform at the levels they’re capable of. 

This is true for a lot of the squad.

Football isn’t played on paper, it’s played on grass.

I honestly used to think we did have a top 6 squad under Holden and just weren't reaching our potential. Unfortunately, games aren't played on paper and the players we had weren't / aren't good enough

[Tin Soldier]

The club has been/still is a basket case. All the mistakes made over the last 3 years have come home to roost. NP will need a minor miracle to turn it around. Who is going to buy players Bristol City don’t want? Anything decent has been sold.

[westonred]

We are still suffering from a weak squad of players that were here before Pearson took charge players like COD Palmer Martin Vyner they are all taking up wages and offer us very little (ok Martin plays often but is bang average) then we have to rely on a batch of youngsters who should really be out on loan elsewhere at the moment.  SL needs to put his hand in his pocket as we need Two Strikers Two Wide Men and a Creative Midfielder all with championship quality This buy now sell in the future at a profit policy we have is for the future, we need to sort this problem NOW

When NP can bring in who he wants/needs we can judge him then 

[CyderInACan]

9 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Not expecting much at WBA but Barnsley at home on the 30th feels like we really need a win. They've only won one game all season, so far. 

Nailed on away win then . . .

[petehinton]

9 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Ryan Lowe was the man we should have got, but he wasn’t a big enough name for most on here.

His record speaks for himself. 

The same one who was massively struggling in January of this year and finished 18th in league one?

Doing a great job now but there’s no way he could’ve come in in January when Holden got binned. Would’ve been a huge risk

[Northern Red]

9 minutes ago, petehinton said:

The same one who was massively struggling in January of this year and finished 18th in league one?

Doing a great job now but there’s no way he could’ve come in in January when Holden got binned. Would’ve been a huge risk

Yep. Same as the suggestion of Russell Martin the other day. It'll be someone else by the weekend.

[BS4 on Tour...]

10 hours ago, Sturny said:

He couldn’t do that at the past 3 clubs so why are we any special/different ?

Because he wasn’t given anywhere near enough time to turn anything around at those clubs ... 14 games as Derby boss - do you think that’s enough time?

[2015]

Lee Johnson like his Father left Dean Holden and Nigel Pearson a rather bloated squad full of pretty average players at best at this level. Again, it's going to take a few years for it to be turned around, but I'd much rather a Nigel Pearson in charge doing it than some yes man to SL or an inexperienced manager.

The Home form is terrible no one is disputing that, but it has been for a rather long time. We play very vertically, no one willing to break the lines, no one comfortable enough to keep possession for spells in the game - Which has also been the case for the last 2/3 years. This is why we are so bad at home, we can get away with it away as we can play on the break and teams give us more time on the ball.

We need pace in the side and we need a few clever heads who know how to use the ball well and kill games off without having to sit back for 30+ minutes

[Fordy62]

42 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Lee Johnson like his Father left Dean Holden and Nigel Pearson a rather bloated squad full of pretty average players at best at this level. Again, it's going to take a few years for it to be turned around, but I'd much rather a Nigel Pearson in charge doing it than some yes man to SL or an inexperienced manager.

The Home form is terrible no one is disputing that, but it has been for a rather long time. We play very vertically, no one willing to break the lines, no one comfortable enough to keep possession for spells in the game - Which has also been the case for the last 2/3 years. This is why we are so bad at home, we can get away with it away as we can play on the break and teams give us more time on the ball.

We need pace in the side and we need a few clever heads who know how to use the ball well and kill games off without having to sit back for 30+ minutes

Summary:

Not Callum O’Dowda. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Dredd said:

Pearson isn’t the problem imo it’s the mess of a squad he’s inherited and lack of budget to address it

Pearson's CV is strong enough to get a win at home by now though.

[Kibs]

12 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

I agree. Was going to start a similar thread myself.

My doubt is not necessarily just around Pearson either. I know he has a very difficult job on his hands and that he has done a great job behind the scenes in terms of bringing everybody together, but I'm starting to have a little nagging doubt around what is happening on the training ground.

What really frustrates me is that whilst performances have been slightly better than last season (lets be honest, the only way was up), after 28 games and a pre-season behind him, I STILL have no idea as to what sort of team we are trying to become. What do we spend each day working towards?

You look at most teams in the Championship, and you know what you are going to get whether it is high intensity, high press, physical/direct, looking to moving the ball through the thirds etc.....but City under Pearson, I STILL have absolutely no idea. It's like it's just left to the players.

We are just so passive. It's still seems like we are going out with no game plan at all and no long term direction of working towards a consistent way of playing. I'm by no means saying that this should be in place now, but there should at least be some signs of what sort of team we are trying to become. How can you even recruit properly if you don't know what you want to be?

Pearson has stated on a number of occasions that he see's himself as somebody who "Manages people", and not necessarily someone who coaches. That concerned me a little the first time I heard it.

The team have lacked direction and intent on the pitch for so long, so with the same people coaching (other than Fleming), we probably shouldn't be surprised that we are seeing the same failings on the pitch. 

[Sturny]

2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Because he wasn’t given anywhere near enough time to turn anything around at those clubs ... 14 games as Derby boss - do you think that’s enough time?

Yeah sure he was given a short amount of time, it does tell a story. Maybe they didn't buy into his long project plan, but then you have to ask why hire him? And why did NP take the job? 

The question I'm wondering is if those clubs failed NP or NP failed at those clubs? I think the Derby job can be negated from that list because he left on mutual consent over the drones at training camps. 

And anyway you're making a strawman argument, so we're special because we're going to give him longer? 8 months already and cant sort out the home form. Maybe we're just the biggest fools out of those clubs.

I just want to go the gate again with high hopes of a fun game. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Sturny