Is O'Dowda the answer to our striker problems?

[dREDful]

No. Course not FFS. 

A knackered Wells was so much more useful as a focal point than COD. Could see the equaliser coming a mile off once that happened. Ball just kept coming back. 

 

EDIT - because this is going over some heads. I don't believe COD made the tactical decision, so I don't blame him for the stupidity. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by dREDful

[onlyotib]

3 minutes ago, dREDful said:

No. Course not FFS. 

A knackered Wells was so much more useful as a focal point than COD. Could see the equaliser coming a mile off once that happened. Ball just kept coming back. 

Totally agree and he’s still robbing a living but I’m sure we will all see a video on Instagram tomorrow of him doing something world class for 5 seconds to put him on the bench for next week but we will all never see him actually produce it In a match. Please get rid ASAP 

[firstdivision]

The ball came back pretty much all second half. At least, it did in the game I was watching.

[bexhill reds]

7 minutes ago, dREDful said:

No. Course not FFS. 

A knackered Wells was so much more useful as a focal point than COD. Could see the equaliser coming a mile off once that happened. Ball just kept coming back. 

Nope, but on soggy pitch with tired defenders, O’Dowda running at pace with balls over the top and down channels made perfect sense, Wells was knackered. Our problem was they looked for O’Dowda as the target man to win and hold up rather than chase down..

 

not defending the player, but the idea made sense with the alternatives they had.

Edited October 19, 2021 by bexhill reds

[richyy66]

Odowda was not at fault for the last few mminutes of madness. I agree i think he should be moved on but to blame him for the defeat is a little harsh.

[firstdivision]

1 minute ago, richyy66 said:

Odowda was not at fault for the last few mminutes of madness. I agree i think he should be moved on but to blame him for the defeat is a little harsh.

Not only harsh, it’s utterly ridiculous. 

[dREDful]

Sorry, should state I'm not having a pop at COD for this. It wasn't his mental idea to make this tactical blunder. 

2 minutes ago, richyy66 said:

Odowda was not at fault for the last few mminutes of madness. I agree i think he should be moved on but to blame him for the defeat is a little harsh.

 

Just now, firstdivision said:

Not only harsh, it’s utterly ridiculous. 

See above. 

[And Its Smith]

Always a way to blame COD it seems. Scapegoat 

[BigAl&Toby]

5 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Nope, but on soggy pitch with tired defenders, O’Dowda running at pace with balls over the top and down channels made perfect sense, Wells was knackered. Our problem was they looked for O’Dowda as the target man to win and hold up rather than chase down..

 

not defending the player, but the idea made sense with the alternatives they had.

It made absolutely no ******* sense.

What would have made sense would have been for Captain Dan to realise his constant lumping it down the middle wasn’t working and to have tried something different.

But oh no. If at first you don’t succeed then just keep trying it. Again and again…..

Christ if it didn’t work with Martin on the pitch it sure as hell wasn’t going to work with him off it…

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Nope, but on soggy pitch with tired defenders, O’Dowda running at pace with balls over the top and down channels made perfect sense, Wells was knackered. Our problem was they looked for O’Dowda as the target man to win and hold up rather than chase down..

 

not defending the player, but the idea made sense with the alternatives they had.

Sigh. Yes instead of retaining possession we pumped long high aimless balls for ODowda to jump for rather than long high aimless balls for Odwda to chase into the corners..

We did one or both because we could not string three passes together anywhere on the pitch in front of the defence. WE looked leggy, because as someone said on radio Brizz we were chasing out of possession the entire game and they were all knackered by 70minutes. AS PER USUAL AT HOME!

[big dosser]

im not a cod fan but come on you cant blame him for the last 3 mins of bloody comical defending 

[Feral Williams]

1 minute ago, big dosser said:

im not a cod fan but come on you cant blame him for the last 3 mins of bloody comical defending 

No but him being a suitable replacement for Wells is debatable when his contribution is largely total pish 

[bexhill reds]

8 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

It made absolutely no ******* sense.

What would have made sense would have been for Captain Dan to realise his constant lumping it down the middle wasn’t working and to have tried something different.

But oh no. If at first you don’t succeed then just keep trying it. Again and again…..

Christ if it didn’t work with Martin on the pitch it sure as hell wasn’t going to work with him off it…

Right so trying to get pace on the pitch was a bad idea? Agreed that lumping the ball at him was not going to work, but getting him running into the corners as an outlet surely makes sense, especially against tired defenders even if only to stretch the pitch out a bit, I’d argue that this was the best option with what was on the bench, just a poorly executed.

Especially when the remaining bench options were Simpson, Pring and Bakinson.

Edited October 19, 2021 by bexhill reds

[dREDful]

1 minute ago, bexhill reds said:

Right so trying to get pace on the pitch was a bad idea? Agreed that lumping the ball at him was not going to work, but getting him running into the corners as an outlet surely makes sense, especially against tired defenders even if only to stretch the pitch out a bit, I’d argue that this was the best option with what was on the bench, just a poorly executed.

We knocked it into the corners for him twice and he was flat footed and staring the ball passing him. 

Again, not on him. It's on the manager. He shouldn't be asked to the job he was asked to at such an important time. 

[big dosser]

Just now, Feral Williams said:

No but him being a suitable replacement for Wells is debatable when his contribution is largely total pish 

i agree with that but there's only one man that choose to do that and that is big nige.as much as i want big nige to succeed i am starting to worry about some of his tactics and for me cod should be nowhere near this side

[dREDful]

1 minute ago, big dosser said:

i agree with that but there's only one man that choose to do that and that is big nige.as much as i want big nige to succeed i am starting to worry about some of his tactics and for me cod should be nowhere near this side

Which was my point. 

[bexhill reds]

Just now, dREDful said:

We knocked it into the corners for him twice and he was flat footed and staring the ball passing him. 

Again, not on him. It's on the manager. He shouldn't be asked to the job he was asked to at such an important time. 

But what options did Pearson have, Bakinson - worse than O’Dowda, and two full backs at a time where we needed to have the ball at the other end of the pitch… I don’t think O’Dowda is the answer to many questions as a rule, but he was the best answer to the one of Wells going off knackered, with the options available on the bench at the time…

[t_b]

Wells pressed no one and let their keeper set up their attacks with the ball at his feet just outside the centre circle. 
He was done. 

[Lrrr]

3 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

But what options did Pearson have, Bakinson - worse than O’Dowda, and two full backs at a time where we needed to have the ball at the other end of the pitch… I don’t think O’Dowda is the answer to many questions as a rule, but he was the best answer to the one of Wells going off knackered, with the options available on the bench at the time…

Bell and Janneh were with the team but didn’t make the squad, Bell the extra sub Incase of injury I believe as well.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Lrrr

[bexhill reds]

25 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

The ball came back pretty much all second half. At least, it did in the game I was watching.

The only way they’re going to solve that is with the chequebook or from proceeds from selling Bentley or Kalas. None of the front three tonight can hold the ball up, we’ve never replaced Wilbraham.

[bexhill reds]

2 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Bell and Janneh were with the team but didn’t make the squad, Bell the extra sub Incase of injury I believe as well.

You could make a case for Janneh over O’Dowda right now, but wether they’ve gone for experience over rawness or by what they’ve seen in training, we won’t know. Janneh is a good shout though…

[Kingswood Robin]

If O'Dowda is the answer, what on earth is the question?!

[Bernard Lerring]

Using cod and palmer to protect a lead is like using a rizla as flood protection 

[bexhill reds]

6 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

If O'Dowda is the answer, what on earth is the question?!

Who would you replace your knackered striker with when you have  2 full backs, a lazy midfielder and a goal keeper on the bench…. 

[Kingswood Robin]

2 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Who would you replace your knackered striker with when you have  2 full backs, a lazy midfielder and a goal keeper on the bench…. 

I was talking generally.  

Pearson is slowly making changes, but we have assembled some crap, as you've somewhat alluded to.

[bexhill reds]

1 minute ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I was talking generally.  

Pearson is slowly making changes, but we have assembled some crap, as you've somewhat alluded to.

Agreed, that was the only question where O’Dowda is a positive answer. I’m not sure he’s done anything else of note since that Norwich goal. 
 

Time to see what Janneh can do….

[Davefevs]

57 minutes ago, richyy66 said:

Odowda was not at fault for the last few mminutes of madness. I agree i think he should be moved on but to blame him for the defeat is a little harsh.

55 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

Not only harsh, it’s utterly ridiculous. 

Yep, not his fault tonight at all.

Wells knackered.

Someone on another post said Bakinson should’ve been brought on to see out the game….jeez.

Its always easy to blame the subs when points are dropped.  With the options available:

• Massengo on for a tired Martin made sense, swapping Weimann to play upfront.
• Scott, tiring, on a yellow (desperate not to trip their player bursting beyond him) needed taking off.  Bakinson or Palmer?  Palmer for me, he tackles, doesn’t stroll around.
• Wells tired, put in a great shift tonight, who else?  O’Dowda for his legs…had logic.

The problem with tonight was more the shape in reaction to Forest’s changes than the personnel per se.

[RedM]

I think the answer to our striking problems is a player we don’t have. A Diedhiou type player would have given the defence some protection and given them something to worry about.

We don’t have too many players who give the opposition any concern. It’s too easy to come here and dominate. That has to be addressed.

[A Horse With No Name]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, not his fault tonight at all.

Wells knackered.

Someone on another post said Bakinson should’ve been brought on to see out the game….jeez.

Its always easy to blame the subs when points are dropped.  With the options available:

• Massengo on for a tired Martin made sense, swapping Weimann to play upfront.
• Scott, tiring, on a yellow (desperate not to trip their player bursting beyond him) needed taking off.  Bakinson or Palmer?  Palmer for me, he tackles, doesn’t stroll around.
• Wells tired, put in a great shift tonight, who else?  O’Dowda for his legs…had logic.

The problem with tonight was more the shape in reaction to Forest’s changes than the personnel per se.

Funny how none of our opposition players ever look " tired " though.

[One Team]

5 hours ago, Kingswood Robin said:

If O'Dowda is the answer, what on earth is the question?!

Who is the best player to be in the stands with the fans not on the pitch? 

[BigAl&Toby]

1 hour ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

Are we all just going to ignore another trade mark Daniel Bentley parry in to the opposition’s path last night then for the goal  

I’m not. Glad you brought it up.

Captain Dan needs a rest. Not just because of that but also his consistent lumping it to a non-existent player who’s unable to either win the ball or hold it up.

Now that might not be DB’s fault and it might be “team orders” but why oh why keep doing something when the outcome is the same.

Straight back at you Dan.

[CityCiderEd]

1 hour ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

Are we all just going to ignore another trade mark Daniel Bentley parry in to the opposition’s path last night then for the goal  

Should have been pushed away for a throw or corner.........

 

[Bernard Lerring]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 Palmer for me, he tackles, doesn’t stroll around.

I felt like I saw a fair bit of strolling around from palmer last night. His attempt at pressing was embarrassing for someone with fresh legs 

[Fordy62]

9 hours ago, dREDful said:

No. Course not FFS. 

A knackered Wells was so much more useful as a focal point than COD. Could see the equaliser coming a mile off once that happened. Ball just kept coming back. 

 

EDIT - because this is going over some heads. I don't believe COD made the tactical decision, so I don't blame him for the stupidity. 

So relieved to read the first line of your post after falling hook line and sinker for the click bait!  

[Super]

1 hour ago, BigAl&Toby said:

I’m not. Glad you brought it up.

Captain Dan needs a rest. Not just because of that but also his consistent lumping it to a non-existent player who’s unable to either win the ball or hold it up.

Now that might not be DB’s fault and it might be “team orders” but why oh why keep doing something when the outcome is the same.

Straight back at you Dan.

Martin is beyond useless at holding the ball up. The problem is not one player in this team is a good passer of the ball.

[chinapig]

The puzzle for me is if our players are said to be so much fitter than before why are they having to go off because they are knackered?

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, The Horse With No Name said:

Funny how none of our opposition players ever look " tired " though.

Because they keep the ball abd make us run around more.  That’s a very simplistic answer to the problem….it’s more complicated than that.

2 hours ago, Bernard Lerring said:

I felt like I saw a fair bit of strolling around from palmer last night. His attempt at pressing was embarrassing for someone with fresh legs 

He was just holding shape….you can’t go charging into a press on your own.

[Super]

1 minute ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

BS regarding Martin he is the least of our problems. Service is the main issue and an erratic goalkeeper 

I think striking options or a lack of is a big problem. 

[Clutton Caveman]

10 hours ago, richyy66 said:

Odowda was not at fault for the last few mminutes of madness. I agree i think he should be moved on but to blame him for the defeat is a little harsh.

Wells knew what he was doing within the game plan and did it well. It was working. If we had a like for like sub OK but when O'Dowd came on the shape went to hell.

[Super]

Just now, lukebcfc1989 said:

Not the main problem IMO have to remember our forward line is self serving. They are lucky to get one chance a game. 

I know we don't create much but all of them are poor at holding the ball up.

[Clutton Caveman]

9 hours ago, bexhill reds said:

Right so trying to get pace on the pitch was a bad idea? Agreed that lumping the ball at him was not going to work, but getting him running into the corners as an outlet surely makes sense, especially against tired defenders even if only to stretch the pitch out a bit, I’d argue that this was the best option with what was on the bench, just a poorly executed.

Especially when the remaining bench options were Simpson, Pring and Bakinson.

Pace, what pace, when was the last time you saw O'Dowd leave a defender in his wake. How this guy survived the cull I just don't know. 

[bexhill reds]

4 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Pace, what pace, when was the last time you saw O'Dowd leave a defender in his wake. How this guy survived the cull I just don't know. 

I dont think he’s the answer to our problems and he’s not lived up to the promise, but was the only resource left on the bench that could have played that role.

[Red-Robbo]

10 hours ago, bexhill reds said:

Nope, but on soggy pitch with tired defenders, O’Dowda running at pace with balls over the top and down channels made perfect sense, Wells was knackered. Our problem was they looked for O’Dowda as the target man to win and hold up rather than chase down..

 

 

Wells may well have been tired, but keeping the attacking threat of him and a forward-line Weimann would've been sensible in my opinion.  He certainly didn't want to go off. Was quite irked by it, judging by his body language. COD's appearance meant in effect we were defensive for the rest of the game, with no outlet. And we all know the best form of defence is attack. Not booting the ball up (not even out of play) for their defence to pick up and hey presto 30 seconds later, you face another attack.

To diversify this theme. Everyone in the box to defend corners also means the ball comes straight back at you. At least one player needs to be out of the box to give opponents something to think about.

Ultimately, we lost because as we try to shepherd a one-goal lead, we start to back off more and more and allow the opposition to pick out passes in our final third with impunity.  We've seen it before and we'll see it again, because coaching does not seem to be picking up this psychological flaw. 

[One Team]

27 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Pace, what pace, when was the last time you saw O'Dowd leave a defender in his wake. How this guy survived the cull I just don't know. 

I think the only reason he did was that he was still under contract and we had no interest in him. 

[marmite]

I know this is an O'Dowda thread but I have to link it with Bentley. Has anyone else noticed that when he kicks from hand, its always a high hanging kick rather than a flat trajectory. That would have suited O'Dowda better as he would have had something to chase into the channels rather than stood on the halfway line, surrounded by 6ft plus defenders, waiting for the ball to drop. Bad substitution imo but not helped by our familiar game plan.

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, marmite said:

I know this is an O'Dowda thread but I have to link it with Bentley. Has anyone else noticed that when he kicks from hand, its always a high hanging kick rather than a flat trajectory. That would have suited O'Dowda better as he would have had something to chase into the channels rather than stood on the halfway line, surrounded by 6ft plus defenders, waiting for the ball to drop. Bad substitution imo but not helped by our familiar game plan.

Yes.  I don’t like the half-slice drop kick.  It hangs and allows CBs to position themselves for the header and the DM a chance to screen Martin.  It also has no pace on it if he wins the flick.

He needs to drill them lower.

[Numero Uno]

12 hours ago, CityCiderEd said:

Should have been pushed away for a throw or corner.........

 

A goalkeeper of his ability should be holding it not worrying about where he's going to push it.

[Numero Uno]

9 hours ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

 

I really dont see an issue with Martins hold up play, slow maybe... but he dosent miss chances is clever and can hold the ball up. He is good enough for now.  

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying but he was shite last night. He's been unjustly villified a few times recently but last night he had a shocker.