Pearson: “everyone needs to be on the bus and we can’t afford any passengers.”

[1960maaan]

I'd add some relevant thoughts, but I can't get past the 

"everyone needs to be on the bus and we can’t afford any passengers"

Isn't everyone on the Bus a passenger ?

[Numero Uno]

I have to admit that when you are defending a single goal lead ending up with two of our weakest players on the pitch, Palmer and O’Dowda didn’t make sense. If Wells was shagged I would honestly have rather seen Pring stuck up there and told to run around like ****, take the ball to the corner when he got the chance and sink a couple of tackles. Make no mistake the kid would at least try to do that if he was asked and would have come off the pitch blowing after his cameo. Because enough is enough, wtf does O’Dowda give us at ANY time? 1 goal in 20 says pretty much **** all to me. Similarly with Palmer who manages something one-off a few times per season but that’s it basically. They don’t run around, they don’t tackle and they aren’t good enough to be luxury players.

[Numero Uno]

29 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Well, another option would have been to not make the (last two) substitutions at all?

At least with Weimann, Wells and Scott we had a bit of movement and a bit of shape that was giving us an outlet and giving Forest something to think about from time to time. We might even have got a second!

I'm not aware that injuries were a reason - players were tiring, sure, but even so??

I’m leaning towards that view. No subs might have cost us two points but not three.

[robin_unreliant]

It drove me nuts that we just sat back for at least the last 20 minutes. Forest fans were commenting that they were doing the same under Hughton and it only changed with him going. Maybe it is due to them getting a few wins and more confidence. Or maybe the tone IS set by the manager. 

I really don't know the answer. Taking all your attackers off clearly adds to the siege mentality. However, you can't blame NP for that idiotic sliding tackle by Baker. Or the blatant mistakes from the ref. 

I think I will have to avoid following the WBA game as it currently isn't good for my mental health. 

[downendcity]

3 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

 

Regarding your second question, premier league loans are not free. Clubs have to cover wages, pay a loan fee, pay a penalty fee if the player does not start etc. It could easily be more expensive than a permanent signing with no guarantee of any better result.

...... Unless you are Reading and subject to an embargo! 

[Ivorguy]

I wonder what the hell Nige can do between today and game at WBA.  I doubt many on here believe even a draw likely.  It is the old old case of where do we see the next win come from.  It will come, but when, and will it be enough to keep our season going?
 

Yesterday, in despair I asked how can Nige survive this run of home defeats and draws on his watch, today I am being more positive again and thus wonder what the hell he CAN do.  He has, in truth, few options on the field.  Guess he may turn to youth as he did last season.  

[LondonBristolian]

2 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

I wonder what the hell Nige can do between today and game at WBA.  I doubt many on here believe even a draw likely.  It is the old old case of where do we see the next win come from.  It will come, but when, and will it be enough to keep our season going?
 

Yesterday, in despair I asked how can Nige survive this run of home defeats and draws on his watch, today I am being more positive again and thus wonder what the hell he CAN do.  He has, in truth, few options on the field.  Guess he may turn to youth as he did last season.  

I'm not so worried about West Brom. Anything we get from it is a bonus but, whatever happens, it won't define our season. The issue for me is Barnsley Saturday week. We may come into that on the back of 3 defeats and, of course, our terrible home record. I really see that as a genuine must win game. 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Ivorguy said:

I wonder what the hell Nige can do between today and game at WBA.  I doubt many on here believe even a draw likely.  It is the old old case of where do we see the next win come from.  It will come, but when, and will it be enough to keep our season going?
 

Yesterday, in despair I asked how can Nige survive this run of home defeats and draws on his watch, today I am being more positive again and thus wonder what the hell he CAN do.  He has, in truth, few options on the field.  Guess he may turn to youth as he did last season.  

Experience says that we will get a home win and are likely to follow it up with another. Last night was mental when you think about it in the cold light of day. We imploded in the craziest way possible in two minutes of injury time and yet all I read on here today are 22 year old tactical geniuses who don't even play the game telling me that the tactics were all wrong.

If you were Manager of a company in this kind of situation you don't approach it like a football "fan" would. I do hope he identifies the "Passengers" he talked about and bins them asap. With the rest of them it comes down to one thing and one thing only.......hard work.....there's no easy way out of it or magic wand he can wave. We must still remember (or at least he will as a non "Fan") that we are mid-table on 16 points. The world may have almost ended for us as fans last night and find me a fan who wasn't raging about it but he is not paid to think like that even though a minority of fans want to see him shouting and bawling at people and "gert showing some passion innit".......

[Waconda]

4 hours ago, Dredd said:

He’s made this comment a few times now, but I don’t see any players left out

Constantly did it last season also. 

[Robbored]

As always Nige was spot on post match reinforcing his message that if a player doesn’t confirm to his methods then that player can leave.

I have a suspicion that CoD will be off the next window.

[Loderingo]

Fundamentally it feels to me like where we were in 13/14.  We had had a series of short-term managers and had bought a lot of panic buys.  When we ultimately got relegated, the better players left leaving us with a load of deadwood.  13/14 was then just about stabilising the club after Cotterill came in and waiting for contracts to expire so we could start again (particularly Liam Fontaine).

This time we have also had the issue of COVID, putting more pressure on in terms of FFP and also making to hard to move players on.  According to Transfermarkt, the following players are OOC in the summer:

Simpson, Martin, King, COD, Bakinson, Wiles-Richards

I would expect Bakinson, Simpson and COD to go. King and Martin might get 1 years extensions.  The challenge will be offloading Wells and Palmer who aren't OOC until Jun 23

 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I'd add some relevant thoughts, but I can't get past the 

"everyone needs to be on the bus and we can’t afford any passengers"

Isn't everyone on the Bus a passenger ?

Just imagine if a certain former manager had come out with that!!

[Redandproud]

4 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Vyner ?

Martin?

[Sir Geoff]

2 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

Totally distracted today by the OTIB.

Pearson clearly doesn't rate the squad - so he's telling them. And also quite clearly he was furious.

Some of these players are totally out of their depth. They cannot, cannot, cannot manage a game. I accept that Pearson takes some accountability - esp. for the subs, but what do / can you do if the players don't implement the plans. 

And this disease of sitting back and inviting the opposition to attack, has been around since the 'pox at Ashton Gate. 

This is going to be a very long season. Very long. And so will the next season, as we'll only be able to bring in 4-5 more players. 

No problem with that if you are well drilled and drop in to two banks of four, shut off the passing lanes and press like dogs, to protect a lead. What we do is a million miles from that.

The worse crime for me is the constant pumping the ball upfield ,when we do win it, and it comes straight back at us, as more pressure.

[chinapig]

12 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Just imagine if a certain former manager had come out with that!!

In fact he would have been accused of throwing players under the bus!

[1960maaan]

All very well saying X , Y , Z will go. 

A few things to consider ;
They are under contract.
There isn't a lot of money around.
There hasn't been much value in the market.
January is a difficult time to buy or sell.
We have a small squad so can't just offload.
We are not cash rich, So can't just buy as and when.

So we will rely on someone buying our players, and if we want rid it will be a buyers market. That means we won't get top money, which leads to difficulty buying to replace. You always want better than you get rid of, that's the only way it makes sense, so any money in would need adding to to improve on player sold.
I don't see much movement in Jan, I would hope Nige is calling all his mates to find loans. The only real assets we have, we won't want to sell and the ones we don't want won't fetch much. 

I think we are stuck with this squad until the summer, then I'll be worried about losing the likes of Masengo. Nige needs to work some magic.

[robin_unreliant]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

 

I don't see much movement in Jan, I would hope Nige is calling all his mates to find loans. 

I don't think he is keen on loans, which could make it even harder. 

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, robin_unreliant said:

I don't think he is keen on loans, which could make it even harder. 

Needs must though. If he wanted someone in Jan, we have very little room to manoeuvre so his hand may be forced.
He should have the connections, and I get the reticence , but we may not have any other option.

[Engvall’s Splinter]

5 hours ago, Dredd said:

He’s made this comment a few times now, but I don’t see any players left out

Perhaps because he’s unable to owing to others having worse application and ability ?

[Engvall’s Splinter]

3 hours ago, RedRock said:

I get this.

In six months there should be a tangible improvement in fitness levels. Britton, may have started under Nige massively unfit (why, academy coaches?). He should now at least be capable of sustaining 10 minutes of Championship level football. 
 

So, there should have been a choice between putting CoD on or Britton off the bench for the last 10. Not a difficult one is it, particularly when you constantly play the ‘hit and hope’ high balls. …although that’s another debate. 
 

Why the hell we didn’t tap into the loan market or just get someone out of contract for free is beyond me. Martin is being flogged to a standstill, literally. If Nige is playing the ‘high ball, hold it up’ game then you need a second big bloke up front to alternate with Martin. 

Absolutely. If you are taking Wells off and in a game where the ball is not sticking, put someone like Britton on. Can do no worse. 

[LondonBristolian]

9 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Perhaps because he’s unable to owing to others having worse application and ability ?

This is it. I reckon there are at least seven players in the squad still that Pearson wouldn't have signed if it had been his choice and who he'd happily move on if he had the resources to do so. I also reckon another three are only at the club because they fitted the budget rather than because they were who Pearson would have chosen in ideal world. That only really leaves eleven or twelve senior players and a smattering of youngsters who are actually players Pearson would ideally be working with if he had the choice...

[ray savino]

11 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

This is it. I reckon there are at least seven players in the squad still that Pearson wouldn't have signed if it had been his choice and who he'd happily move on if he had the resources to do so. I also reckon another three are only at the club because they fitted the budget rather than because they were who Pearson would have chosen in ideal world. That only really leaves eleven or twelve senior players and a smattering of youngsters who are actually players Pearson would ideally be working with if he had the choice...

Bang on. Totally agree.

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

This is it. I reckon there are at least seven players in the squad still that Pearson wouldn't have signed if it had been his choice and who he'd happily move on if he had the resources to do so. I also reckon another three are only at the club because they fitted the budget rather than because they were who Pearson would have chosen in ideal world. That only really leaves eleven or twelve senior players and a smattering of youngsters who are actually players Pearson would ideally be working with if he had the choice...

100%.

Last night in the absence of Williams, King & Semenyo who would have all made the squad, he only had Vyner at his disposal who he is deliberately leaving out.

I don’t think any of Bakinson, Palmer or O’Dowda would be involved in the 18 if we had anyone else to select from.

This Britton stuff is hilarious, he hasn’t been starting games for the U23s yet is suddenly the answer, dream on.
 

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

This is it. I reckon there are at least seven players in the squad still that Pearson wouldn't have signed if it had been his choice and who he'd happily move on if he had the resources to do so. I also reckon another three are only at the club because they fitted the budget rather than because they were who Pearson would have chosen in ideal world. 

 

Isn't that ever thus for every manager anywhere?  Managers rarely inherit their "dream team" having usually been appointed because the guy before has failed.

I see people going on about what a great squad Forest have, but that squad took one point from their first seven games.  I don't think players like Lyle "iced gem" Taylor, Djed Spence or Alex Mighten have set the world ablaze at this level and Joe Lolley who everyone loved last season is regularly derided now as the worst player at the club, by Forest fans.  Lewis Grabban is a great, but he's older than Chris Martin. His heyday is over. 

A draw might've been a fair result for an end-to-end match, but the loss reflects a fundamental psychological flaw in how this team defend one goal leads. Something coaching doesn't seem to be dealing with. 

[Numero Uno]

19 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Isn't that ever thus for every manager anywhere?  Managers rarely inherit their "dream team" having usually been appointed because the guy before has failed.

I see people going on about what a great squad Forest have, but that squad took one point from their first seven games.  I don't think players like Lyle "iced gem" Taylor, Djed Spence or Alex Mighten have set the world ablaze at this level and Joe Lolley who everyone loved last season is regularly derided now as the worst player at the club, by Forest fans.  Lewis Grabban is a great, but he's older than Chris Martin. His heyday is over. 

A draw might've been a fair result for an end-to-end match, but the loss reflects a fundamental psychological flaw in how this team defend one goal leads. Something coaching doesn't seem to be dealing with. 

How do you coach composure? These lads all know how to defend and see out a game at 1-0 because they’ve been at pro clubs since 8 years of age but the old bottle has gone right now.

[Red-Robbo]

8 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

How do you coach composure? These lads all know how to defend and see out a game at 1-0 because they’ve been at pro clubs since 8 years of age but the old bottle has gone right now.

 

It's about mental toughness. Psychology. That's as important to instil as on-the-ball skills and set piece routines.

[BTRFTG]

3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I'd add some relevant thoughts, but I can't get past the 

"everyone needs to be on the bus and we can’t afford any passengers"

Isn't everyone on the Bus a passenger ?

As somebody about to enjoy that late life privilege in the next few weeks, I'll soon be using my free bus pass. As a passenger I'll no longer be contributing, other than via my local rates bill. Neither does the driver, clippie or inspector contribute to its running.

And therein lies the problem. When the bus is full of end of career freeloaders with few actively paying to keep it going, the bus will eventually be pulled from service as not viable. The odd old fogey and school kid is fine save City, care of Ashton & Johnson,  are presently riding a double decker full of freeloaders.

[LondonBristolian]

29 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Isn't that ever thus for every manager anywhere?  Managers rarely inherit their "dream team" having usually been appointed because the guy before has failed.

I see people going on about what a great squad Forest have, but that squad took one point from their first seven games.  I don't think players like Lyle "iced gem" Taylor, Djed Spence or Alex Mighten have set the world ablaze at this level and Joe Lolley who everyone loved last season is regularly derided now as the worst player at the club, by Forest fans.  Lewis Grabban is a great, but he's older than Chris Martin. His heyday is over. 

A draw might've been a fair result for an end-to-end match, but the loss reflects a fundamental psychological flaw in how this team defend one goal leads. Something coaching doesn't seem to be dealing with. 

I quite agree it is the same for every manager every where but the financial restrictions over the summer have massively hampered the ability to change things. I'm not defending last night's performance - and I certainly agree with points that  people (I think including you) made earlier in the thread about giving younger players a chance rather than continually picking players we know won't succeed but I also think that last night's performance - and where we are in general - has to be placed in the context of:

1) The absence from the starting line-up of two midfielders who are becoming essential to how Pearson wants to play

2) A strike force comprised of players that the manager would probably agree aren't quite good enough.

3) A complete absence of pace in the team that has not been resolved over the summer and is exacerbated by injuries to Semenyo

4) A failure of certain squad players to make a compelling case for inclusion.

None of this is to give Pearson a free pass. I think the subs last night were wrong and I think it's hard to argue the team is being selected on merit whilst Martin gets selected week-in week-out off the back of a raft of anonymous performances. 

But I also think that any manager right now is going to be primarily doing a job of papering over our limitations as much as playing to our strengths. We don't have pace, we don't have attacking quality and we have players that show mental fortitude at QPR and at home to Fulham and then crumble whenever we're one-up at home. And of course Pearson need to resolve these problems but they're not problems Pearson originally created nor ones that can necessarily be quickly fixed. 

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

I quite agree it is the same for every manager every where but the financial restrictions over the summer have massively hampered the ability to change things. I'm not defending last night's performance - and I certainly agree with points that  people (I think including you) made earlier in the thread about giving younger players a chance rather than continually picking players we know won't succeed but I also think that last night's performance - and where we are in general - has to be placed in the context of:

1) The absence from the starting line-up of two midfielders who are becoming essential to how Pearson wants to play

2) A strike force comprised of players that the manager would probably agree aren't quite good enough.

3) A complete absence of pace in the team that has not been resolved over the summer and is exacerbated by injuries to Semenyo

4) A failure of certain squad players to make a compelling case for inclusion.

None of this is to give Pearson a free pass. I think the subs last night were wrong and I think it's hard to argue the team is being selected on merit whilst Martin gets selected week-in week-out off the back of a raft of anonymous performances. 

But I also think that any manager right now is going to be primarily doing a job of papering over our limitations as much as playing to our strengths. We don't have pace, we don't have attacking quality and we have players that show mental fortitude at QPR and at home to Fulham and then crumble whenever we're one-up at home. And of course Pearson need to resolve these problems but they're not problems Pearson originally created nor ones that can necessarily be quickly fixed. 

 

Yeah, fair enough. I think the inability to afford a new striker, particularly, hampered Pearson last night. Such a character would have been on the bench and doubtless come on ahead of COD (and probably Palmer) to give Forest a reason to remain tight at the back and prevent them being able to deploy their keeper as a sweeper.

At the same time, I think the scoffing (not from you) at playing some attacking young players is daft. Britton got one Championship game against a Prem in waiting side and he scored. What more can anyone ask? Benarous consistently performs. Both are no younger than a number of Forest players who we couldn't seem to deal with. At the end of the day, I'd rather see either on the bench than Bakinson or COD or Vyner.

[Chicken George]

4 hours ago, Street red said:

Simple fact the players that he's inherited just ain't good enough and he's limited to what he can do.. Every player signed before Pearson needs to go and I'm not joking it needs a massive change because I think several players think it's an easy life at this football club.

Look at the quality Pearson has brought in just think what he can do if he had money.

He’s signed 7 now. 
Tanner Atkinson Baker James Weimann all started and finished last night. Add Scott, whom he’s chosen to promote and he started 6 outfield players last night who were his own players. 
King and Simpson are his other signings, both who contribute little. 
Who exactly is Pearson calling out? I don’t get it. Every defeat he says something like “some of these players don’t want to be here and they won’t be”. These are empty threats after every defeat as he never seems to drop someone from the squad completely. Who is he calling? Based on last night, that could well have been Weimann and Baker - both of which are his own signings. It could have been Atkinson for being 8 yards deeper than the rest of the defence on the winning goal. His signing. 
I’m just bored of these empty threats after every loss. 
Pearson needs to manage these players better and get some cahunas into them to stop folding in injury time. Stop saying “they won’t be here going forward” and do something about it. 

[mozo]

2 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

I wonder what the hell Nige can do between today and game at WBA.  I doubt many on here believe even a draw likely.  It is the old old case of where do we see the next win come from.  It will come, but when, and will it be enough to keep our season going?
 

Yesterday, in despair I asked how can Nige survive this run of home defeats and draws on his watch, today I am being more positive again and thus wonder what the hell he CAN do.  He has, in truth, few options on the field.  Guess he may turn to youth as he did last season.  

For me there's a lot of pressure on the Barnsley game. 

Let's say we go into that match with our dreadful home record looming over us plus three consecutive defeats fresh in our memories.

To then not beat a rival in the bottom 3 would be a very worrying sign of where we are as a team.

I'm currently anxious about City both scoring goals and conceding them which is a very bad sign. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, Loderingo said:

Fundamentally it feels to me like where we were in 13/14.  We had had a series of short-term managers and had bought a lot of panic buys.  When we ultimately got relegated, the better players left leaving us with a load of deadwood.  13/14 was then just about stabilising the club after Cotterill came in and waiting for contracts to expire so we could start again (particularly Liam Fontaine).

This time we have also had the issue of COVID, putting more pressure on in terms of FFP and also making to hard to move players on.  According to Transfermarkt, the following players are OOC in the summer:

Simpson, Martin, King, COD, Bakinson, Wiles-Richards

I would expect Bakinson, Simpson and COD to go. King and Martin might get 1 years extensions.  The challenge will be offloading Wells and Palmer who aren't OOC until Jun 23

 

I'd be surprised if King doesn't have an option and I'm sure I read somewhere Martin has too, perhaps based on playing a certain number of games.

Which means the room freed up by natural wastage (one way of describing COD) will be minimal and the enforced sale of someone we'd rather not lose (Kalas, Bentley) is more likely.  

[mozo]

5 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I'd be surprised if King doesn't have an option and I'm sure I read somewhere Martin has too, perhaps based on playing a certain number of games.

Which means the room freed up by natural wastage (one way of describing COD) will be minimal and the enforced sale of someone we'd rather not lose (Kalas, Bentley) is more likely.  

I'd be very worried if King and Martin stay beyond next summer.

[Chicken George]

4 hours ago, Ostrich said:

What’s he supposed to do if there’s a lack of options otherwise? Whether it’s the best way to do it idk but he’s stuck with these players run so he’s got to get them to buck their ideas up somehow.

He did exactly this when he first returned to Leicester. He came in during November of 11/12 and for the rest of that season he criticised players in a much similar fashion, he fell out quite acrmioniously (head butting Matt Mills) with a couple of them.

Difference is he was able to spend 3m in January on Drinkwater, Morgan and Marshall. Then about another 10-12m the following season plus just paying off or taking a big financial hit on players he didn’t want around. Of course that’s back in 2012 so bigger fees than they sound now, before FFP, with his recruitment setup and with an owner willing to spend. So whether he can achieve the transformation need given the constraints he has now is up for debate.

“What’s he supposed to do if there’s a lack of options” 

6 of the starting 10 outfield were his own signings. Maybe give them the confidence to keep the ball in the opposition territory late in the game rather than concede territory and possession for the last 20. Instead of forever crying after every loss that “some of these players don’t want to be here”. Well, either set them up to succeed better or see through on the empty threats and drop them completely. 
 

There seems to be this narrative that Pearson can’t do anything about it because he inherited shit. Well, he’s signed 7 now. If he is any good as a coach then he should have coached improvement into the ones already here by now. Unless they are totally hopeless, in which case how did they ever get a pro-deal in the first place. 
 

Nothing Pearson has done has changed our fortunes yet and I can’t see any coaching improvement in any of the players. We’re slightly better because he’s signed James, who is good for this level. Otherwise, he’s changed nothing. 
under Johnson and even Holden temporarily, we had a good away record and a crap home record. Pearson has carried on the good away record but has actually worsened the home record. 
 

He needs to stop moaning that “some won’t be here going forward” and start actually motivating and coaching improvement. Otherwise, what is he? 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Enter Sandman

[NOTBLUE]

1 minute ago, Enter Sandman said:

“What’s he supposed to do if there’s a lack of options” 

6 of the starting 10 outfield were his own signings. Maybe give them the confidence to keep the ball in the opposition territory late in the game rather than concede territory and possession for the last 20. Instead of forever crying after every loss that “some of these players don’t want to be here”. Well, either set them up to succeed better or see through on the empty threats and drop them completely. 
 

There’s seems to be this narrative that Pearson can’t do anything about it because he inherited shit. Well, he’s signed 7 now. If he is any good as a coach then he should I have coached improvement into the ones already here by now. Unless they are totally hopeless, in which case how did they ever get a pro-deal in the first place. 
 

Nothing Pearson has done has changed our fortunes yet and I can’t see any coaching improvement in any of the players. We’re slightly better because he’s signed James, who is good for this level. Otherwise, he’s changed nothing. 
under Johnson and even Holden temporarily, we had a good away record and a crap home record. Pearson has carried on the good away record but has actually worsened the home record. 
 

He needs to stop moaning that “some won’t be here going forward” and start actually motivating and coaching improvement. Otherwise, what is he? 

He’s obviously a very naughty boy or the Messiah 

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 hours ago, bcfcnick said:

The issue for me though is our inability to keep the ball.  I lost count of the amount of times players, such as Massengo, with the obvious ability to pass to his own teammate, regularly lost possession or passed into space where only the opposition were ever going to pick it up.  Is that down to our coaching team,  the manager and the way the team are set up or is it down to the calibre of players?  I'd love to see the stats for the times we lost possession after Bentley boots it upfield - it was probably 80% plus and that tactic surely has to be an instruction.

It's not the sole reason, but when you're outnumbered in midfield as we often have been in recent times- it doesn't help.

Probably a mix of reasons behind it but..James-Williams-Massengo in a 3 seems like one that could use the ball quite well IMO. Granted Williams isn't available, if Semenyo was fit could him pressing/running hard help to relieve a bit of pressure on us further back.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Street red said:

Simple fact the players that he's inherited just ain't good enough and he's limited to what he can do.. Every player signed before Pearson needs to go and I'm not joking it needs a massive change because I think several players think it's an easy life at this football club.

Look at the quality Pearson has brought in just think what he can do if he had money.

Tanner, Atkinson, James- definitely yes.

Simpson- past his best. King? Good squad player.

Unsure about the rest having to go- Williams when fit would be a definite asset, Massengo has a high ceiling- Weimann has been quite productive this season albeit away from home!

Just getting rid of Bentley, Baker, Kalas, DaSilva- plus young players such as Pring and Semenyo and of course Scott although the latter only got his chance this year under NP.

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's not the sole reason, but when you're outnumbered in midfield as we often have been in recent times- it doesn't help.

Probably a mix of reasons behind it but..James-Williams-Massengo in a 3 seems like one that could use the ball quite well IMO. Granted Williams isn't available, if Semenyo was fit could him pressing/running hard help to relieve a bit of pressure on us further back.

I think this helps explain the current problem too. I think it's very hard to pick a good, balanced team from the current squad that does not include at least one of Williams, Massengo or Semenyo. Without them there's just a lack of running and energy in the team and moving Weimann around to compensate just means he is missed further forward. 

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

So why not work on Louis Britton and bring him up to Championship level fitness.  One substitute appearance (and one goal) in the final match of last season, but now we’re led to believe he’s not fit enough.  Well whose fault is that?

And no young Premier League strikers we could have brought in on loan?

Have you seen the interview where Nige discusses Louis?

He basically says he’s not fit enough.  Not fit enough to train with the first team, as it’s too intensive for him.  Therefore, he hasn’t thrown him on the scrap-heap, but stated that he’d put him on an individual plan and challenged Louis to attain the levels required.  Some of that fitness work will mean he doesn’t always play for the u23s too.  Nige admits he can have a short burst impact, but what if he needed to come on after 10 minutes….he just couldn’t last.

Those are from Nige’s mouth.

Who’s fault is it?  Looks like you’ve decided it’s Nige’s fault.  He’s dangled the carrot.  Why don’t you wait and see.

Re PL strikers on loan. I’m sure there were plenty he could’ve signed, but are they better than Martin, Weimann, Wells, Semenyo, I.e. are they gonna take their minutes. Let’s spend £10k p.w. and loan fee on a PL starlet who doesn’t play?  Keinan Davis’s name is often banded about….weve no idea whether we tried or not…but he’s not played through injury this season.  Who else has taken PL strikers on loan in the Champ this season?

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, downendcity said:

...... Unless you are Reading and subject to an embargo! 

Premier League clubs are not averse to subsidising wages there- Drinkwater's wage is mooted at £120k per week, Rahman £50k per week.

I was told it's because they are close to London and Chelsea e.g. can keep an eye on loanees there quite easily although I'm unsure it stacks up- Reading are capped at £8.5k per player, per week x 6 with no loan fees payable- and therefore by process of elimination Chelsea must be subsidising them 90% of the wages for the pair at minimum. Think Everton loaned them Virginia nice and cheap, Chelsea loaned them Miazga a few years ago etc- probably for a good chunk of the wage payable by them ie Chelsea.

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, billywedlock said:

You seriously think you are telling Pearson something he could not see or does not know ! Where are the coaches that can “teach “ 30 year old players how to control a football ? 

I saw a great tweet today.

Emma Radacanu hitting some balls in practice….and people telling her her techniques it bit out.  Jeez she’s the US Open champion.  I know a forum is to express our opinion, but I wonder how many could have a genuine discussion with Nige about last night and not feel a bit lacking!

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, italian dave said:

Well, another option would have been to not make the (last two) substitutions at all?

At least with Weimann, Wells and Scott we had a bit of movement and a bit of shape that was giving us an outlet and giving Forest something to think about from time to time. We might even have got a second!

I'm not aware that injuries were a reason - players were tiring, sure, but even so??

Scott was knackered and on a yellow card, and I got the impression the ref had his card marked, especially when not giving the penalty.  Think he had to come off.

[Red-Robbo]

29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Scott was knackered and on a yellow card, and I got the impression the ref had his card marked, especially when not giving the penalty.  Think he had to come off.

 

He did appear to have been watching some Jack Grealish videos, judging by the rather theatrical tumbles being taken earlier.

The downside with winning a number of such decisions is that you may not get the rub of the green when you are genuinely tripped in the area, as he was.

[steviestevieneville]

9 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

It's just a shame he parked the bus last night - and the plan didn't work

A misconception often trotted out . I’m sure Pearson never told the players to sit off . However subconsciously , defending a lead the players weren’t brave enough. He’s always says abut players taking responsibility & they didn’t . 

[Son of Fred]

8 hours ago, BasSavage88 said:

Nige saying stuff for the happy clappers to cling on to so they stay on side. 

Last night was his fault

16 games without a home win???...

Whomever the head coach was/is, I'm afraid the players must shoulder the bulk of any blame.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

Everyone is frustrated, fed up and angry. It is a few years of awful football , and for the moment Nige has not yet changed that situation. Compounded by the dire home form. But the solutions are not quite as simple as some seem to think. Compounded by Covid and a loss of income, we are in a very delicate place, and it is vital we avoid relegation whilst navigating these choppy waters. Nige is not beyond criticism, far from it, but if you look at the quality of his senior players outside of the defender , it is a pretty thin group. IMHO , given free choice I do not believe Nige would sign Wells, COD, Palmer, Martin, King or Weimann . He does need the ability to sign a midfielder and forward with the same potential of Atkinson and Tanner. 

What is your take on the QPR version of Wells for 18 months if you write him off to that level. Weimann away from home this season has been excellent, mostly agree on the rest but Martin at Derby was very useful when managed correctly.

Is an NP setup actually likely to be what we need in general in the coming years for a promotion push? You might cite Leicester and he did great things there, but the landscape of this League has changed a lot in the last 7-8 years. A few who would be deemed an excellent bet and the season is still young of course.

1. Hughton- Sacked after a disastrous start to this season.
2. McCarthy- Can still turn it round but may not have long left.
3. Warnock- Ups and downs but certainly no promotion charge looking likely at this stage.

NP has a big rebuilding job ahead, while at Blackburn Mowbray has had a decent start but is financially up against it to an extent- Armstrong has left a side that finished somewhere between midtable and the bottom 3rd last season, big hole to fill.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[AshtonGreat]

17 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

A misconception often trotted out . I’m sure Pearson never told the players to sit off . However subconsciously , defending a lead the players weren’t brave enough. He’s always says abut players taking responsibility & they didn’t . 

Surely he only had to bark a few orders from the touchline though? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I think Atkinson and Tanner answer you there. That surely is the approach for a club like ours , plus using the academy. Nige has taken all of that on. 

Also listen to Rennie explaining the physical requirements of the Prem, we have a small number that meet that level. We had not been signing players that will meet the increased requirements of the Prem. If anything they are adapting to the changed landscape, that the previous recruitment did not take into account. 

I see that Nige is doing exactly what you say for the changing landscape. But we are late to the party. 

Thanks, I'll look up the Rennie stuff. Should be interesting.

Okay yeah, I'll perhaps rephrase, just wondering if his tactical approach from say 2013/14 and slightly beyond is suited to the landscape 2021/22 Championship. I definitely have faith in him btw.

By physical requirements do you mean intensity of play etc?

I still think Wells has attributes though, but of him or Vydra in Jan 2020 would have preferred the latter.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

There is a video on bcfc with Rennie , it highlights the power, pace and intensity needs going forward. 

 

Thanks, I look forward to watching it.

Sounds a good strategy when out of possession, ie without the ball. That does, will however require a lot of chasing and I see that impacting on fitness  fatigue etc.

IMO with the ball, we should be aiming to get firstly a decent quantity of possession and the using it well. A mixture of positive play and more conservative resting in possession- that helps with the intensity and fitness that you refer to.

Last 4 seasons, I think 10 and maybe 11 of the sides who have gone up have averaged 50% and above in possession. Lowest estimate might be 9 but it's an increasing trend.

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Have you seen the interview where Nige discusses Louis?

He basically says he’s not fit enough.  Not fit enough to train with the first team, as it’s too intensive for him.  Therefore, he hasn’t thrown him on the scrap-heap, but stated that he’d put him on an individual plan and challenged Louis to attain the levels required.  Some of that fitness work will mean he doesn’t always play for the u23s too.  Nige admits he can have a short burst impact, but what if he needed to come on after 10 minutes….he just couldn’t last.

Those are from Nige’s mouth.

Who’s fault is it?  Looks like you’ve decided it’s Nige’s fault.  He’s dangled the carrot.  Why don’t you wait and see.

Re PL strikers on loan. I’m sure there were plenty he could’ve signed, but are they better than Martin, Weimann, Wells, Semenyo, I.e. are they gonna take their minutes. Let’s spend £10k p.w. and loan fee on a PL starlet who doesn’t play?  Keinan Davis’s name is often banded about….weve no idea whether we tried or not…but he’s not played through injury this season.  Who else has taken PL strikers on loan in the Champ this season?

 

Good poiunt re Britton. Since he hasn't signed a new contract I guess there's little point in investring much hope of him coming through.

And I honestly think loans are not a very good way to 'strengthen' your team - short term advantage (possibly - but a risk) leading to mid/long term disadvantage.

[Numero Uno]

10 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Totally, we are going nowhere fast with our low possession football. I assume, but do not know, the plan is to improve it when we have the players . (HNM/Williams/James on the same pitch will help, but our forwards are particularly poor at retaining possession ). Having such low possession at home is also a major factor in our results. 

Lots of work to be done. 

Chris Martin never gave us anything in terms of retaining possession last night...........absolutely nothing. This is what the people who want our Nige to be on the touchline "barking a few orders" like that is some magic formula they managed to think of but Nige hasn't are not grasping..........you can bark the **** out of yourself but if your Centre Forward cannot keep hold of the ball after you have been under pressure or at least do enough with his body to get kicked/pushed and earn a free kick the thing will keep coming back, your defensive players will be running around like mad dogs to plug gaps and get the ball back and then when it does arrive at their feet after they have just spent the last five minutes running like mad dogs guess what happens more often than not? The movement isn't there, the quality is missing on the pass and off we go again.

That is how Forest had a solid 10 minute spell at the start of the second half and yet we've got whoppers on here who thought it was tactical orders from the staff.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

10 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Chris Martin never gave us anything in terms of retaining possession last night...........absolutely nothing. This is what the people who want our Nige to be on the touchline "barking a few orders" like that is some magic formula they managed to think of but Nige hasn't are not grasping..........you can bark the **** out of yourself but if your Centre Forward cannot keep hold of the ball after you have been under pressure or at least do enough with his body to get kicked/pushed and earn a free kick the thing will keep coming back, your defensive players will be running around like mad dogs to plug gaps and get the ball back and then when it does arrive at their feet after they have just spent the last five minutes running like mad dogs guess what happens more often than not? The movement isn't there, the quality is missing on the pass and off we go again.

That is how Forest had a solid 10 minute spell at the start of the second half and yet we've got whoppers on here who thought it was tactical orders from the staff.

Why is Pearson picking him then?

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Have you seen the interview where Nige discusses Louis?

He basically says he’s not fit enough.  Not fit enough to train with the first team, as it’s too intensive for him.  Therefore, he hasn’t thrown him on the scrap-heap, but stated that he’d put him on an individual plan and challenged Louis to attain the levels required.  Some of that fitness work will mean he doesn’t always play for the u23s too.  Nige admits he can have a short burst impact, but what if he needed to come on after 10 minutes….he just couldn’t last.

Those are from Nige’s mouth.

Who’s fault is it?  Looks like you’ve decided it’s Nige’s fault.  He’s dangled the carrot.  Why don’t you wait and see.

I am amazed that people who have watched literally years of Championship football cannot see how bloody brutal and intense it is to play in, especially for young kids. Have these people forgotten that Alex Scott, the best of the young bunch, who came back in last night and showed what he is going to be all about had to be taken off after HALF AN HOUR a few weeks back for his own good because the game completely passed him by and was too much for him. Playing someone who is showing themselves to be UNFIT for purpose in effect against Centre Halves like Gary Cahill is literally the stuff of ruining careers, not dreams.

Alex Scott showed last night what can be achieved when managed correctly, being taken out of the spotlight at the right time and thrown back in again a few weeks later after learning a few lessons along the way and perhaps the management of Louis Britton will yield a similar result. Setting him up to fail in a league where he will get chewed up and spat out if he isn't ready definitely won't.

[PHILINFRANCE]

5 hours ago, GrahamC said:

This Britton stuff is hilarious, he hasn’t been starting games for the U23s yet is suddenly the answer, dream on.
 

Re. Britton, do you have any idea why he is not starting?

I wasn’t aware of that, but I did see he played against Watford - I have no idea whether or not he started.

Given his supposed goalscoring prowess, hampered only by his lack of technique and match fitness, I should have thought he was being pushed to get as much game time as possible.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Why is Pearson picking him then?

Presumably because he feels Martin has given him enough in other recent games, certainly a lot more than he gave us last night which wouldn't be difficult to achieve. Players have bad games and Martin had a shocker last night......a stinker. I would rest him and try something different on Saturday, personally, because I see that game as a free hit. The game where we really do need to be bang at it is the one after...........

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Re. Britton, do you have any idea why he is not starting?

I wasn’t aware of that, but I did see he played against Watford - I have no idea whether or not he started.

Given his supposed goalscoring prowess, hampered only by his lack of technique and match fitness, I should have thought he was being pushed to get as much game time as possible.

If he's being put on a "First Team Fitness Programme" I'm guessing some of the physical work he needs to get through at times is literally too much for him to be also starting games......even at U23 level. As you say, he did play against Watford though.

[samo II]

8 hours ago, italian dave said:

Well, another option would have been to not make the (last two) substitutions at all?

At least with Weimann, Wells and Scott we had a bit of movement and a bit of shape that was giving us an outlet and giving Forest something to think about from time to time. We might even have got a second!

I'm not aware that injuries were a reason - players were tiring, sure, but even so??

I don’t disagree. As I say; weren’t players I’d have brought on, mainly as I’d not have subbed them at all.

Might be they were knackered, but one thing I would say is; a lot harder playing out of possession than with it, and when we sit back like we do, it certainly doesn’t help us keep the best players in the game.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

16 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Presumably because he feels Martin has given him enough in other recent games, certainly a lot more than he gave us last night which wouldn't be difficult to achieve. Players have bad games and Martin had a shocker last night......a stinker. I would rest him and try something different on Saturday, personally, because I see that game as a free hit. The game where we really do need to be bang at it is the one after...........

I actually think that what Martin does, he does quite well, but it’s very limited.  He gets a lot of flicks on with his head, and he often occupies two defenders, but that’s about it.  By half time any threat is usually nullified because the opposition have sussed him out.  He is an honest player though, and certainly gives 100%.  However, I’m astonished that Pearson hasn’t tried a different approach, especially given the winning goal at QPR…

[Numero Uno]

6 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I actually think that what Martin does, he does quite well, but it’s very limited.  He gets a lot of flicks on with his head, and he often occupies two defenders, but that’s about it.  By half time any threat is usually nullified because the opposition have sussed him out.  He is an honest player though, and certainly gives 100%.  However, I’m astonished that Pearson hasn’t tried a different approach, especially given the winning goal at QPR…

If you're going to give something different a go surely you do it on Saturday? The general consensus is we'll get mullered on Saturday which to me means free hit. West Brom's Centre Halves are beasts and Martin will get no joy there. Rest him for Barnsley.

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

Surely he only had to bark a few orders from the touchline though? 

It’s not as easy as that is it. It’s a mindset. They’re desperate for that win & they automatically drop deep to protect it . I’m sure he did tell them to get up the pitch . There were some scrambled brains out there with some strange decisions . 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Good poiunt re Britton. Since he hasn't signed a new contract I guess there's little point in investring much hope of him coming through.

And I honestly think loans are not a very good way to 'strengthen' your team - short term advantage (possibly - but a risk) leading to mid/long term disadvantage.

1. He hasn’t been offered a new contract as far as I know, so nothing there to sign.
2. we are investing in him by putting on a personal fitness programme.  Nige must think there’s something as he’s said he can make an impact.

2 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Re. Britton, do you have any idea why he is not starting?

I wasn’t aware of that, but I did see he played against Watford - I have no idea whether or not he started.

Given his supposed goalscoring prowess, hampered only by his lack of technique and match fitness, I should have thought he was being pushed to get as much game time as possible.

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

If he's being put on a "First Team Fitness Programme" I'm guessing some of the physical work he needs to get through at times is literally too much for him to be also starting games......even at U23 level. As you say, he did play against Watford though.

This.  He’s started 4/7, on the bench 2 of them, one of which was the game Wells etc played.