Tomorrow

[GrahamC]

Let’s be honest, you would have to be mad to expect us to get anything but I wonder if tomorrow might see Nige reach the end of his patience with certain players?

Williams is out, I’ve no idea if there is any possibility of either King or Semenyo being back & Vyner appears completely out of favour, but as the consensus is Palmer, O’Dowda & Bakinson are the ones he’s referring to when he talks about passengers, could Janneh, Bell or Sam Pearson make the bench?

[Super]

10 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Let’s be honest, you would have to be mad to expect us to get anything but I wonder if tomorrow might see Nige reach the end of his patience with certain players?

Williams is out, I’ve no idea if there is any possibility of either King or Semenyo being back & Vyner appears completely out of favour, but as the consensus is Palmer, O’Dowda & Bakinson are the ones he’s referring to when he talks about passengers, could Janneh, Bell or Sam Pearson make the bench?

I expect he has already reached that with some. The trouble is we don't have much else to come in.

[CiderJar]

I hope it is the same party atmosphere as when, at four nil down, Paul Hartley showed some cahones and scored. Do we have a Paul Hartley waiting in the wings? I don't think so.

But put money on them scoring four because they have in each of the last four league games against us at The Hawthorns.

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Let’s be honest, you would have to be mad to expect us to get anything but I wonder if tomorrow might see Nige reach the end of his patience with certain players?

Williams is out, I’ve no idea if there is any possibility of either King or Semenyo being back & Vyner appears completely out of favour, but as the consensus is Palmer, O’Dowda & Bakinson are the ones he’s referring to when he talks about passengers, could Janneh, Bell or Sam Pearson make the bench?

King possibly but it’s unlikely that Semenyo will be fit. It’ll interesting to see the line up especially as you’re right about the consensus of the ‘passengers’.

Should Nige select any of the youngsters on the bench then he’ll be reinforcing his message of ‘my way or the highway’ and that’s what all good managers do.

Personally I’d like to see Janneh get some game time - maybe even start particularly as none of us are expecting anything at the Baggies.

 

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

King possibly but it’s unlikely that Semenyo will be fit. It’ll interesting to see the line up especially as you’re right about the consensus of the ‘passengers’.

Should Nige select any of the youngsters on the bench then he’ll be reinforcing his message of ‘my way or the highway’ and that’s what all good managers do.

Personally I’d like to see Janneh get some game time - maybe even start particularly as none of us are expecting anything at the Baggies.

 

In the absence of Semenyo he would certainly offer more pace, which we lack.

Can’t see him starting but agree he is worth putting on the bench.

Think the starting line up will be very similar to Forest (as none of the 3 I mentioned actually started) but HNM in & Martin out with Weimann & Wells up top, maybe.

[The Gasbuster]

8 minutes ago, CiderJar said:

I hope it is the same party atmosphere as when, at four nil down, Paul Hartley showed some cahones and scored. Do we have a Paul Hartley waiting in the wings? I don't think so.

But put money on them scoring four because they have in each of the last four league games against us at The Hawthorns.

Needless to say that *** Callum Robinson will score against us AGAIN !, and then celebrate right in font of our fans AGAIN !

[Clutton Caveman]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

In the absence of Semenyo he would certainly offer more pace, which we lack.

Can’t see him starting but agree he is worth putting on the bench.

Think the starting line up will be very similar to Forest (as none of the 3 I mentioned actually started) but HNM in & Martin out with Weimann & Wells up top, maybe.

They are a team of monsters. We will do well to get more than 30% possession and there will be plenty of high balls into the box

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

They are a team of monsters. We will do well to get more than 30% possession and there will be plenty of high balls into the box

They certainly aren’t a possession based side, so I’d be surprised if it isn’t more even than that, but they are a very tall side, agreed.

That sort of tactic actually worries me less than clever movement, as our 3 Centre Backs are all decent in the air.

[Red Army 75]

19 minutes ago, CiderJar said:

I hope it is the same party atmosphere as when, at four nil down, Paul Hartley showed some cahones and scored. Do we have a Paul Hartley waiting in the wings? I don't think so.

But put money on them scoring four because they have in each of the last four league games against us at The Hawthorns.

Remember that day well. Went on Shems coach. Puncture on way up. Got there police put us straight in ground but made us walk in the rain for 10 minutes. 3-0 down after about 20 minutes . Then after the game detoured us around the houses back to junction 5 I think. As away days go that was up there as one of my worst.

As for tomorrow can’t see anything other than a defeat unfortunately. Tuesday was a difficult one for the players and can’t see a bouncebackability

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

55 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Let’s be honest, you would have to be mad to expect us to get anything but I wonder if tomorrow might see Nige reach the end of his patience with certain players?

Williams is out, I’ve no idea if there is any possibility of either King or Semenyo being back & Vyner appears completely out of favour, but as the consensus is Palmer, O’Dowda & Bakinson are the ones he’s referring to when he talks about passengers, could Janneh, Bell or Sam Pearson make the bench?

Who said he was referring to Palmer and O’Dowda as passengers?  He said very positive things about Palmer after he asked to play in the U23s, and he brought O’Dowda straight back in after injury.

Before slagging off the players or losing patience, Pearson needs to have a long hard look at himself.  The notion that the players are simply not doing what this notion ‘hard man of football’ is training to do is frankly laughable.

If the players are not performing to the best of their ability, then the problem lies with the management and coaching staff.

[robin_unreliant]

58 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Let’s be honest, you would have to be mad to expect us to get anything

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/10/21/jeff-stelling-predicts-west-brom-v-bristol-city-scoreline/

Seems Jeff's cheese just slid off its cracker. 

[1960maaan]

Right first off, anything or any reason I come up with to give us a chance of a point, is really straw clutching. History, common sense and anything else points to a WBA win, and by at least 2 goals. All there seems to be to discuss , is what team will be put to the sword 

I've not heard anything about Williams, but I very much doubt no news being good news.
Same with King.
Semenyo was supposed to have been training, but how close who knows. 
Vyner is a funny one. Only been poor-ish  at right back. Was good at CB & DMF. I'd have him on the bench every time. 

Apart from the last minute implosion ,and generally defending to deep and not holding the ball, we were reasonable. So I imagine we will set up the same, maybe Pring into LB as they are more direct . Scott must stay in after his performance. Then there starts the questions. Weimann worked like a trojan but was basically an extra defender for the 2nd half. Martin got some good flicks in, but it was Nhaki getting on the end of a couple made them good.  I don't see Nige changing much, we don't have an obvious switch to make, unless we rejig the shape a little. The question is where HNM fits in. If he is deemed fully 90+ minutes fit, he surely has to play and I can only see Wells being the one to drop out. Wrong IMO, the chip, the run/shot tipped onto the post and the left foot shot that lead to the goal, things that the other 2 can't do. But Weimann's  work rate and Martin's , whatever, means they seem ahead when it comes to starts. 
Personally I'd have Wells up top, with Scott and Weimann behind , James and HNM as the genuine MF's. 

What I'd like

                 Bentley
     Kalas - Atkinson - Baker
Tanner - James - HNM - Pring
             Scott - Weimann
                   Wells

What I think Nige will do

                 Bentley
     Kalas - Atkinson - Baker
Tanner - James -HNM - Scott - DaSilva
           Weimann - Martin

COD, Palmer don't look like forcing their way into the starting line up any time soon, so bench again. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see a youngster force his way onto the bench if Vyner isn't brought in. While we consider it a virtual free hit, I doubt they look at it that way so I don't see any curve balls like JD into MF.
 

Has anyone heard anything about Williams yet?

[KegCity]

26 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Who said he was referring to Palmer and O’Dowda as passengers?  He said very positive things about Palmer after he asked to play in the U23s, and he brought O’Dowda straight back in after injury.

Before slagging off the players or losing patience, Pearson needs to have a long hard look at himself.  The notion that the players are simply not doing what this notion ‘hard man of football’ is training to do is frankly laughable.

If the players are not performing to the best of their ability, then the problem lies with the management and coaching staff.

Pearson certainly has to take responsibility, but this is a group of players who couldn’t perform for Lee Johnson after the collapse after the cup run, couldn’t perform for Holden and can’t perform for Pearson. They’ve certainly had moments of promise, but we’ve been collectively flat for a few years now.

The coaches (both current and prior) should be doing better, but we’ve hardly got a squad of world beaters. With the exception of a handful, we wouldn’t be trying to sign many in the squad if they were at another club.

[tin]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Let’s be honest, you would have to be mad to expect us to get anything but I wonder if tomorrow might see Nige reach the end of his patience with certain players?

Williams is out, I’ve no idea if there is any possibility of either King or Semenyo being back & Vyner appears completely out of favour, but as the consensus is Palmer, O’Dowda & Bakinson are the ones he’s referring to when he talks about passengers, could Janneh, Bell or Sam Pearson make the bench?

Williams, King and Semenyo are all out tomorrow. Wiliams and Semenyo are meant to be two weeks away, King will be out for longer than that. 

I agree with Pearson that KP, COD and TB are passengers; Vyner's not up to it at this level for me. I'd like to see Benarous given a decent run-out. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by tin

[Davefevs]

Slight hope that both Mowatt and Livermore are out.

@1960maaani like your side.

Against a very high line WBA and true sweeper keeper, we have to play in behind their WBs. That suits Wells and Weimann. Han, Matty and probably Scott get the midfield for me.

However Martin probably gets the gig because of defending set pieces. In which case It’s a toss up between Weimann and Scott in the midfield 3.

[Northern Red]

28 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Agree. And I hope Pearson doesn't always think playing poorly or losing games is down to a lack of motivation in players. We generally have a very hard working team of players who are supposed to be very fit now Rennie is here. It's how we play as a team that seems to be the problem imo.

There's no indication at all that he thinks this.

[KegCity]

7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

We were either in the top 6 or just outside the top 6 loads under LJ after that cup run.

In 17/18 we were still in 7th in early April.

In 18/19 we were 6th end of April with one game to go of the season having been top 6 since the end of January.

In 19/20 season we were in or around the playoffs much of the season. We were in 7th after the Fulham game before lockdown.

Okay after lockdown it was atrocious. But for almost the whole of those 3 years we were upper half.

The lowest we had dropped at any time over that period under LJ once a significant amount of games had been played in a season was 13th, and we then went on an unbelievable unbeaten run to get back up to 5th.

Not saying he did a great job, but we were consistently close to being where we wanted to be but couldn't quite make it.

I think we must have had decent players back then for us to be in those positions, and we have decent players now.

We had better depth, we also had Brownhill, Eliasson and others who we didn’t replace once they left. We’re left with signings who weren’t good enough, players who were once there for depth but are now relied upon and a couple genuinely class players. By no means is the squad awful but it’s a mid table team, which is where we are in the league.

[And Its Smith]

I don’t think tomorrow is a right off. WBA haven’t been playing particularly well despite some good results and our away form is superb as we all know.  Hoping for a point

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Who said he was referring to Palmer and O’Dowda as passengers?  He said very positive things about Palmer after he asked to play in the U23s, and he brought O’Dowda straight back in after injury.

Before slagging off the players or losing patience, Pearson needs to have a long hard look at himself.  The notion that the players are simply not doing what this notion ‘hard man of football’ is training to do is frankly laughable.

If the players are not performing to the best of their ability, then the problem lies with the management and coaching staff.

Pearson didn’t slag any players off, he made the comment about passengers & it is my inference that this relates to the 3 I mentioned, because in my opinion, they all contribute very, very little.

[ashton_fan]

Can't see us getting anything other than defeat but I expect a decent performance, perhaps in the game for a while and going down 3-1. The feeling was so bad after the Forest game it might just give us the impetus to win at home next time, we weren't that bad generally just for the last 10 minutes or so and the substitutions didn't help, I wouldn't have picked COD or Palmer to see out a pressure situation.

It may be a similar point in the season to the game we had at the end of a terrible run of results when GJ first took over in L1. I remember we reached the lowest point when 0-4 down to Chesterfield at home at HT. In the 2nd half the crowd got behind the team and we scored 2 goals to finish 2-4 when it looked like it could have been 0-7 or 8 earlier. After that we started a long unbeaten run and then got promoted the season after, here's hoping for similar now.

[tin]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

We were either in the top 6 or just outside the top 6 loads under LJ after that cup run.

In 17/18 we were still in 7th in early April.

In 18/19 we were 6th end of April with one game to go of the season having been top 6 since the end of January.

In 19/20 season we were in or around the playoffs much of the season. We were in 7th after the Fulham game before lockdown.

Okay after lockdown it was atrocious. But for almost the whole of those 3 years we were upper half.

The lowest we had dropped at any time over that period under LJ once a significant amount of games had been played in a season was 13th, and we then went on an unbelievable unbeaten run to get back up to 5th.

Not saying he did a great job, but we were consistently close to being where we wanted to be but couldn't quite make it.

I think we must have had decent players back then for us to be in those positions, and we have decent players now.

I'm glad to added the first part of that sentence as, for context, LJ had the likes of Reid, Bryan, Brownhill and Webster to call upon at various times. He also spent the most in a failed bid to get us over the line. What's left is largely his squad and they're nowhere near decent or consistent enough to challenge in the top half, IMO. Looking at the signings of Atkinson and Tanner, I'd rather NP had the amounts of cash that LJ/MA burnt through, but we are where we are.  

[Sweeneys Penalties]

2 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/10/21/jeff-stelling-predicts-west-brom-v-bristol-city-scoreline/

Seems Jeff's cheese just slid off its cracker. 

this seems more likely Preview: West Bromwich Albion vs. Bristol City - prediction (sportsmole.co.uk)

[Northern Red]

3 hours ago, CiderJar said:

I hope it is the same party atmosphere as when, at four nil down, Paul Hartley showed some cahones and scored. Do we have a Paul Hartley waiting in the wings? I don't think so.

But put money on them scoring four because they have in each of the last four league games against us at The Hawthorns.

That 4-2 game in 2018 was odd because we actually played really well for the most part and created a lot of chances, but had a defensive meltdown for about 15 minutes in the first half which left us trailing 3-0.

[italian dave]

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

King possibly but it’s unlikely that Semenyo will be fit. It’ll interesting to see the line up especially as you’re right about the consensus of the ‘passengers’.

 

 

Purely out of interest……at what point does wild speculation and rumour become consensus? And when it reaches that threshold, is it any more legitimate even if it’s not on the OS?

[ExiledAjax]

3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

What I'd like

                 Bentley
     Kalas - Atkinson - Baker
Tanner - James - HNM - Pring
             Scott - Weimann
                   Wells

What I think Nige will do

                 Bentley
     Kalas - Atkinson - Baker
Tanner - James -HNM - Scott - DaSilva
           Weimann - Martin

I think I'd like a mix of the two. Take your 'Nige' team and add Pring instead of Dasilva. Switch James into the central MF position, and I'd give Wells the first 60 minutes, with Weimann earmarked to come on for him and bust a gut for 30 minutes at the end.

                   Bentley
     Kalas - Atkinson - Baker
Tanner - HNM - James - Scott - DaSilva
           Wells - Martin

One other option - not that this is what I'd necessarily do, but it's something to think about - is to try and emulate what we did at Cardiff earlier in the season. As a fast, direct passing side with an emphasis on set pieces, WBA are not so different in terms of style to the Welsh. They play a different formation, so that may be a reason not to do this, but if we did try and recreate that away win then we might go with something like:

                   Bentley
Tanner - Kalas - Atkinson - Baker
HNM - James - Scott - Pring
           Weimann - Martin

In that formation I'd start Weimann, as he did against Cardiff, and assuming King is out then Scott could replace him I think...although if we're not confident of that you cold switch HNM central, push Weimann wide right and start Wells alongside Martin.

I suspect Wells and Martin will both start, due to their both being subbed off in midweek.

3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Has anyone heard anything about Williams yet?

2-3 weeks out. Nige discusses him and King in the last couple of minutes of today's preview.

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[Ska Junkie]

IF (a big IF too) we win tomorrow, what can be done about the home record as it has to be a 'mental' thing?

Why can't we play at the Gate? Are we cursed, too comfortable, do the players freeze in front of their own fans?

Along with most, I have no idea but it's both frustrating and very worrying.

 

[Swede]

This would've definitely been a game for Andy King. We need that protection in midfield which was painfully lacking against Forest. I wouldn't be surprised to see Zak Vyner played there.

JD looked tired on Tuesday and Martin didn't hold up much and his mobility comes into question. Balls into channels not just humped aimlessly. 

Bentley

Kalas Atkinson Baker

Vyner

COD HNM James Pring

Weimann Wells

[Waconda]

4 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Who said he was referring to Palmer and O’Dowda as passengers?  He said very positive things about Palmer after he asked to play in the U23s, and he brought O’Dowda straight back in after injury.

Before slagging off the players or losing patience, Pearson needs to have a long hard look at himself.  The notion that the players are simply not doing what this notion ‘hard man of football’ is training to do is frankly laughable.

If the players are not performing to the best of their ability, then the problem lies with the management and coaching staff.

uh oh.

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, tin said:

I'm glad to added the first part of that sentence as, for context, LJ had the likes of Reid, Bryan, Brownhill and Webster to call upon at various times. He also spent the most in a failed bid to get us over the line. What's left is largely his squad and they're nowhere near decent or consistent enough to challenge in the top half, IMO. Looking at the signings of Atkinson and Tanner, I'd rather NP had the amounts of cash that LJ/MA burnt through, but we are where we are.  

LJ had to sell his best players and replace them with (mostly) inferior ones.

[italian dave]

19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah true about some of those players being under LJ that are not here now. 

But I disagree that this is a bottom half squad. Performances have been for sure and should be lower than 16th imo as we've had some amazing luck in games we have deserved to lose or not win. People will say how about the last minute goals we conceded, that's not bad luck imo. I think we deserved to concede those goals.

Individually on ability many of these players would be snapped up by decent championship sides if we were to let them go imo.

Looking at quality of players in all the teams in the championship I don't see why we should be struggling. Not saying we are in a relegation battle, but we are struggling to perform and who knows if we don't start playing better that is certainly a possibility, though even I think that won't happen as long as we don't get too many more injuries.

Like I said yesterday, Forest had 1 point in 7 games and were bottom of the table under Hughton. Since sacking him with the exact same players they have won 5, drawn 1, lost 0.

They have the same players that Hughton had, I assume they haven't had the chance to sign anyone as the window had shut when Hughton was sacked.

It shows what good coaching using a different approach can do. Turning a team that look like they might go down into the top in form side in the division.

It is early to be too harsh on Pearson. It's not all been bad. And we really need Williams and Semenyo back. But I do wonder what approach a different manager would have gone with. 

For example Mark Robins would have had us playing very differently I'm sure. Not saying sack Pearson, but just using that as an example that the managers approach is the biggest thing which I have not always been impressed with so far about Nige.

Really hope he improves things as I do like him. Knowing us we will probably go and get a decent result in our next game and then lose and look awful at home to a struggling Barnsley!

Well said, sir: great post.

The other thing that strikes me is that everyone who talks about and knows the success NP has had always talks about the team spirit. We’ve clearly not got that in shedloads at the moment: he wouldn’t be talking about passengers if we had, and talking about passengers does nothing to engender it. That’s becoming a worry this far into his time here: and it seems to have been fundamental to how he operated elsewhere. 

On your last paragraph ; that’s exactly what my money’s on!

[italian dave]

29 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

IF (a big IF too) we win tomorrow, what can be done about the home record as it has to be a 'mental' thing?

Why can't we play at the Gate? Are we cursed, too comfortable, do the players freeze in front of their own fans?

Along with most, I have no idea but it's both frustrating and very worrying.

 

I think it’s become a psychological thing now. People talk about the importance of belief, successful teams have that belief that they’ll win. At home, especially last 10 minutes, we look like a side that believes it’s going to lose. 

[Red Army 75]

2 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I think it’s become a psychological thing now. People talk about the importance of belief, successful teams have that belief that they’ll win. At home, especially last 10 minutes, we look like a side that believes it’s going to lose. 

Totally agree with your last sentence. Spot on for me

[Waconda]

34 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah true about some of those players being under LJ that are not here now. 

But I disagree that this is a bottom half squad. Performances have been for sure and should be lower than 16th imo as we've had some amazing luck in games we have deserved to lose or not win. People will say how about the last minute goals we conceded, that's not bad luck imo. I think we deserved to concede those goals.

Individually on ability many of these players would be snapped up by decent championship sides if we were to let them go imo.

Looking at quality of players in all the teams in the championship I don't see why we should be struggling. Not saying we are in a relegation battle, but we are struggling to perform and who knows if we don't start playing better that is certainly a possibility, though even I think that won't happen as long as we don't get too many more injuries.

Like I said yesterday, Forest had 1 point in 7 games and were bottom of the table under Hughton. Since sacking him with the exact same players they have won 5, drawn 1, lost 0.

They have the same players that Hughton had, I assume they haven't had the chance to sign anyone as the window had shut when Hughton was sacked.

It shows what good coaching using a different approach can do. Turning a team that look like they might go down into the top in form side in the division.

It is early to be too harsh on Pearson. It's not all been bad. And we really need Williams and Semenyo back. But I do wonder what approach a different manager would have gone with. 

For example Mark Robins would have had us playing very differently I'm sure. Not saying sack Pearson, but just using that as an example that the managers approach is the biggest thing which I have not always been impressed with so far about Nige.

Really hope he improves things as I do like him. Knowing us we will probably go and get a decent result in our next game and then lose and look awful at home to a struggling Barnsley!

Excellent and spot on post.

[P'head Red]

24 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

 

 

28 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I think it’s become a psychological thing now. People talk about the importance of belief, successful teams have that belief that they’ll win. At home, especially last 10 minutes, we look like a side that believes it’s going to lose. 

Especially when half the crowd think it's a great laugh to sing "you must be shit, we're winning at home"..

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, P'head Red said:

Especially when half the crowd think it's a great laugh to sing "you must be shit, we're winning at home"..

I didn't like that chant either. I get that it is supposedly tongue-in-cheek, dark humour etc, but I wouldn't call it particularly effective "support".

[OneTeamInBristol]

I think we'll get a point tomorrow, West Brom looked poor at Swansea.

[2015]

Our record at The Hawthorns is pretty poor, but I watched them against Birmingham and they didn't look anywhere near as good as Fulham or Bournemouth. We'll lose 2-1, still think they'll have too much for us.

[tin]

1 hour ago, VT05763 said:

LJ had to sell his best players and replace them with (mostly) inferior ones.

You're right in that LJ had to sell players, but don't be fooled into thinking he didn't want any of the "mostly (inferior) ones" he did sign. He was the head coach and could've said "no" to Ashton or done the principled thing as resigned if Ashton was buying players without his input. LJ insisted on the signings of Brownhill and Webster, he could've vetoed signing the likes of Diony or Palmer (to name just two) if he really wanted to but he wanted his clubs in the bag. All my opinion, of course.

Edited October 22, 2021 by tin

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Northern Red said:

That 4-2 game in 2018 was odd because we actually played really well for the most part and created a lot of chances, but had a defensive meltdown for about 15 minutes in the first half which left us trailing 3-0.

The home game in April save for the scoreline was a bit of a mirror image in some ways- yes they had more pressure than we did up there ultimately but 3-0 up in 20-25 mins. Blitzed them in a period in the 1st half. 3-2 rather than 4-2.

[Numero Uno]

6 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Who said he was referring to Palmer and O’Dowda as passengers?  He said very positive things about Palmer after he asked to play in the U23s, and he brought O’Dowda straight back in after injury.

Before slagging off the players or losing patience, Pearson needs to have a long hard look at himself.  The notion that the players are simply not doing what this notion ‘hard man of football’ is training to do is frankly laughable.

If the players are not performing to the best of their ability, then the problem lies with the management and coaching staff.

Maybe I’m old fashioned but when I had a bad game I always looked at myself rather than the Manager. If the  Manager told me to do something that just wasn’t working then I’d look at the Manager. Or do we now live in a world where we mess up the kick off after conceding and where Nathan Baker loses his head and Dan Bentley parries a shot he is capable of holding straight to Lyle Taylor and it’s the Managers fault? That doesn’t make sense to me I’ll be honest.

[tin]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah true about some of those players being under LJ that are not here now. 

But I disagree that this is a bottom half squad. Performances have been for sure and should be lower than 16th imo as we've had some amazing luck in games we have deserved to lose or not win. People will say how about the last minute goals we conceded, that's not bad luck imo. I think we deserved to concede those goals.

I think the likes of COD, KP, Bakinson, Vyner and to a lesser extent Baker, Weimann and JD have all been part of squads that have "underperformed" for LJ, Holden and seemingly now NP. That's not a coincidence, IMO. I don't think conceding last-minute goals is bad luck either; it's been going on for years and various managers have failed to stop it. Maybe a sports psychologist might get to the bottom of that. 

Individually on ability many of these players would be snapped up by decent championship sides if we were to let them go imo.

Looking at quality of players in all the teams in the championship I don't see why we should be struggling. Not saying we are in a relegation battle, but we are struggling to perform and who knows if we don't start playing better that is certainly a possibility, though even I think that won't happen as long as we don't get too many more injuries.

Really? I think even if we had a fully-fit squad, we'd be a winger or two and a striker short of being a play-off chasing side, and the strength in depth simply isn't there in this current squad. Too many players make individual errors on a consistent basis. To add context, bar the Bournemouth game, I actually think performances have been better than last year. In August, I said survival would be a good result this year. That's still the case now. 

Like I said yesterday, Forest had 1 point in 7 games and were bottom of the table under Hughton. Since sacking him with the exact same players they have won 5, drawn 1, lost 0. They have the same players that Hughton had, I assume they haven't had the chance to sign anyone as the window had shut when Hughton was sacked. It shows what good coaching using a different approach can do. Turning a team that look like they might go down into the top in form side in the division.

Cooper's a good coach, we know that, but he might be benefitting from the new manager bounce factor. Let's see if they keep these results up. Forest also have better footballers than us, IMO. Players that look after the ball better, that manage the game better, that have pace and offer a bit of width. I'm not saying they're world-beaters, but I think Cooper has more to work with there than we've got here. 

It is early to be too harsh on Pearson. It's not all been bad. And we really need Williams and Semenyo back. But I do wonder what approach a different manager would have gone with. For example Mark Robins would have had us playing very differently I'm sure. Not saying sack Pearson, but just using that as an example that the managers approach is the biggest thing which I have not always been impressed with so far about Nige. Really hope he improves things as I do like him. Knowing us we will probably go and get a decent result in our next game and then lose and look awful at home to a struggling Barnsley!

It is too early but we're ahead of where I thought we'd be at this stage and that boils down to individual expectation. Whether it's Robins or Guardiola, I don't think anyone would've got much more out of this current squad. But I recognise we're in transition, it will take time to evolve, we can't keep chopping and changing managers, and even if it doesn't work out with NP, I think he'll leave us in a far better position than when he joined us. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by tin

[Red_Alligator]

Would be a good result to get a point, but I honestly can't see anything other than a home win. I hope I'm as way off as I usually am.......

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-flashback-rollercoaster-ride-6094759

Dunno if anyone has posted it.

Plus from the same article.

We had some unlucky times- that -2 pts, then the week before Sunderland at home- last minute penalty, then the Birmingham game in April that put our late rally against the drop to bed.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Swede said:

This would've definitely been a game for Andy King. We need that protection in midfield which was painfully lacking against Forest. I wouldn't be surprised to see Zak Vyner played there.

JD looked tired on Tuesday and Martin didn't hold up much and his mobility comes into question. Balls into channels not just humped aimlessly. 

Bentley

Kalas Atkinson Baker

Vyner

COD HNM James Pring

Weimann Wells

Agreed- but remember we've flogged him somewhat this season and at times the same last season. Although he got the flick on in the move that ultimately led to our goal.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[The Original OTIB]

2 hours ago, Swede said:

This would've definitely been a game for Andy King. We need that protection in midfield which was painfully lacking against Forest. I wouldn't be surprised to see Zak Vyner played there.

JD looked tired on Tuesday and Martin didn't hold up much and his mobility comes into question. Balls into channels not just humped aimlessly. 

Bentley

Kalas Atkinson Baker

Vyner

COD HNM James Pring

Weimann Wells

As they play 3-4-3, I'd only want Wells up top to be honest. Give them something to worry about when pushing the back 3 up. They won't give a toss about Martin getting in behind so rightly benched and Andi's been crap recently. Needs a wake up call. I agree about Vyner but whould have him central with James behind to link things. I'd start with Scott for Weimann as the 10, Tanner over COD right side. 

2 hours ago, Swede said:

This would've definitely been a game for Andy King. We need that protection in midfield which was painfully lacking against Forest. I wouldn't be surprised to see Zak Vyner played there.

JD looked tired on Tuesday and Martin didn't hold up much and his mobility comes into question. Balls into channels not just humped aimlessly. 

Bentley

Kalas Atkinson Baker

Vyner

COD HNM James Pring

Weimann Wells

As they play 3-4-3, I'd only want Wells up top to be honest. Give them something to worry about when pushing the back 3 up. They won't give a toss about Martin getting in behind so rightly benched and Andi's been crap recently. Needs a wake up call. I agree about Vyner but whould have him central with James behind to link things. I'd start with Scott for Weimann as the 10, Tanner over COD right side. 

2 hours ago, Swede said:

This would've definitely been a game for Andy King. We need that protection in midfield which was painfully lacking against Forest. I wouldn't be surprised to see Zak Vyner played there.

JD looked tired on Tuesday and Martin didn't hold up much and his mobility comes into question. Balls into channels not just humped aimlessly. 

Bentley

Kalas Atkinson Baker

Vyner

COD HNM James Pring

Weimann Wells

As they play 3-4-3, I'd only want Wells up top to be honest. Give them something to worry about when pushing the back 3 up. They won't give a toss about Martin getting in behind so rightly benched and Andi's been crap recently. Needs a wake up call. I agree about Vyner but whould have him central with James behind to link things. I'd start with Scott for Weimann as the 10, Tanner over COD right side. 

[tin]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-flashback-rollercoaster-ride-6094759

Dunno if anyone has posted it.

Plus from the same article.

We had some unlucky times- that -2 pts, then the week before Sunderland at home- last minute penalty, then the Birmingham game in April that put our late rally against the drop to bed.

I remember that day well. Am I right in thinking that's the last time we got anything from the Hawthorns, 22 years and 8 months ago?

[mozo]

I think we need both Pring and JD on the left, whether that be a 4411, 451 or even a 541.

Then we probably have to play Weimann on Tanner's side as Williams is injured and Massengo needed in the middle.

I just think wide areas need protection.

Then I guess Martin up top for his hurly burly (sorry Wells fans).

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, tin said:

I remember that day well. Am I right in thinking that's the last time we got anything from the Hawthorns, 22 years and 8 months ago?

We drew there in the Cup towards the end of Cotts' time here but beyond that...can only remember losses there!

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, mozo said:

I think we need both Pring and JD on the left, whether that be a 4411, 451 or even a 541.

Then we probably have to play Weimann on Tanner's side as Williams is injured and Massengo needed in the middle.

I just think wide areas need protection.

Then I guess Martin up top for his hurly burly (sorry Wells fans).

I'm not fully sold on a back 3, as it can leave a side exposed in wide areas. As you say, the wide areas need some protecton.

Something like...Weimann defo not a winger but a wide midfielder.

                     Bentley

Tanner Kalas Atkinson DaSilva/Pring

Weimann  Massengo James Pring/DaSilva

                       Scott

                       Wells

Far from perfect I know, ideally I'd hope for 3 in there centrally but King and Williams are injured, plus nobody seems to trust Bakinson.

I dunno could Scott pull wide right in certain phases and Weimann go central behind Wells- he played central behind Martin at Reading away I seem to recall?

Could play Weimann as a more advanced CM, and have Scott wide right with Pring and DaSilva as the left side in whatever order.

Martin I dunno, played 13...keep playing him from the start week in week out and we'll break him.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[ashton_fan]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah true about some of those players being under LJ that are not here now. 

But I disagree that this is a bottom half squad. Performances have been for sure and should be lower than 16th imo as we've had some amazing luck in games we have deserved to lose or not win. People will say how about the last minute goals we conceded, that's not bad luck imo. I think we deserved to concede those goals.

Individually on ability many of these players would be snapped up by decent championship sides if we were to let them go imo.

Looking at quality of players in all the teams in the championship I don't see why we should be struggling. Not saying we are in a relegation battle, but we are struggling to perform and who knows if we don't start playing better that is certainly a possibility, though even I think that won't happen as long as we don't get too many more injuries.

Like I said yesterday, Forest had 1 point in 7 games and were bottom of the table under Hughton. Since sacking him with the exact same players they have won 5, drawn 1, lost 0.

They have the same players that Hughton had, I assume they haven't had the chance to sign anyone as the window had shut when Hughton was sacked.

It shows what good coaching using a different approach can do. Turning a team that look like they might go down into the top in form side in the division.

It is early to be too harsh on Pearson. It's not all been bad. And we really need Williams and Semenyo back. But I do wonder what approach a different manager would have gone with. 

For example Mark Robins would have had us playing very differently I'm sure. Not saying sack Pearson, but just using that as an example that the managers approach is the biggest thing which I have not always been impressed with so far about Nige.

Really hope he improves things as I do like him. Knowing us we will probably go and get a decent result in our next game and then lose and look awful at home to a struggling Barnsley!

Remember that when Holden first took over we were top of the league for a while, new manager "bounce" doesn't always equate to long term success.

[mozo]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm not fully sold on a back 3, as it can leave a side exposed in wide areas. As you say, the wide areas need some protecton.

Something like...Weimann defo not a winger but a wide midfielder.

                     Bentley

Tanner Kalas Atkinson DaSilva/Pring

Weimann  Massengo James Pring/DaSilva

                       Scott

                       Wells

Far from perfect I know, ideally I'd hope for 3 in there centrally but King and Williams are injured, plus nobody seems to trust Bakinson.

I dunno could Scott pull wide right in certain phases and Weimann go central behind Wells- he played central behind Martin at Reading away I seem to recall?

Could play Weimann as a more advanced CM, and have Scott wide right with Pring and DaSilva as the left side in whatever order.

Martin I dunno, played 13...keep playing him from the start week in week out and we'll break him.

Yes I agree with that. I do think Martin will get the nod over Wells (if they don't both play) just because we face a physical team.

[Jerseybean]

7 minutes ago, mozo said:

Yes I agree with that. I do think Martin will get the nod over Wells (if they don't both play) just because we face a physical team.

WBA are susceptible to the ball over the top so we need Wells starting IMO as compared to Martin he has pace and the ability to run onto a ball. 

[Red Army 75]

39 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-flashback-rollercoaster-ride-6094759

Dunno if anyone has posted it.

Plus from the same article.

We had some unlucky times- that -2 pts, then the week before Sunderland at home- last minute penalty, then the Birmingham game in April that put our late rally against the drop to bed.

Loved Akinbiyi. How to have someone like that playing for us now

[supercidered]

I hate the saying 'free hit' but this is pretty much one of those. 

I don't mean that as f@ck it lets just get this over with. I mean let us go out there and really have a go. Defending 0-0 is only going to end one way so I'd really like to see us come out the traps early and set out an attacking intent. Appreciate this could back fire but having a go would be preferable than sitting back. Tin hat time.

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, tin said:

You're right in that LJ had to sell players, but don't be fooled into thinking he didn't want any of the "mostly (inferior) ones" he did sign. He was the head coach and could've said "no" to Ashton or done the principled thing as resigned if Ashton was buying players without his input. LJ insisted on the signings of Brownhill and Webster, he could've vetoed signing the likes of Diony or Palmer (to name just two) if he really wanted to but he wanted his clubs in the bag. All my opinion, of course.

Makes you wonder how many he said no to before some of those signings.

[RedorDead BCFC]

I am not thinking we will be getting anything from this game. However I would just like us to have at least one player out of our box when the opposition are taking corners. Then we may have a chance of a breather rather than their keeper passing it back into the box or wide to be played into the box. 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah true about some of those players being under LJ that are not here now. 

But I disagree that this is a bottom half squad. Performances have been for sure and should be lower than 16th imo as we've had some amazing luck in games we have deserved to lose or not win. People will say how about the last minute goals we conceded, that's not bad luck imo. I think we deserved to concede those goals.

bottom half / top half is too big a range imho….hence why I’d say we are a “middle eight” squad.  Imho, we are in a batch of clubs who are very unlikely to get into playoffs, but not should we be a in full-blown relegation battle.  In a weird way I think middle-eight is 10-11 teams, but it’s easier for me to think in three groups of eigh teams.  Does that make sense?  Bottom half is 13th too.  That’s actually the position I predicted we would finish pre-season.  That’s about right innit?

Individually on ability many of these players would be snapped up by decent championship sides if we were to let them go imo.

What do you define as “decent”?  Middling teams on paper, like us?  If so, then I agree.  If you mean top eight teams, I’d say a few might be snapped up (Bentley, Kalas, Massengo…a fit Williams????).

At some point OTIB needs a fully agreed glossary of terms to define “decent”, “quality”, “bang-average”, “top team”, etc. We all have slight differences of what we mean by them.

Looking at quality of players in all the teams in the championship I don't see why we should be struggling. Not saying we are in a relegation battle, but we are struggling to perform and who knows if we don't start playing better that is certainly a possibility, though even I think that won't happen as long as we don't get too many more injuries.

Interesting we’ve played 9 out of the top 12 and 4 of the bottom 12.  Yeah, the table changes every week, but it’s worth just being conscious of that.  Not saying it’s all defining or anything like that.

Like I said yesterday, Forest had 1 point in 7 games and were bottom of the table under Hughton. Since sacking him with the exact same players they have won 5, drawn 1, lost 0.

They have the same players that Hughton had, I assume they haven't had the chance to sign anyone as the window had shut when Hughton was sacked.

It shows what good coaching using a different approach can do. Turning a team that look like they might go down into the top in form side in the division.

It is early to be too harsh on Pearson. It's not all been bad. And we really need Williams and Semenyo back. But I do wonder what approach a different manager would have gone with. 

For example Mark Robins would have had us playing very differently I'm sure. Not saying sack Pearson, but just using that as an example that the managers approach is the biggest thing which I have not always been impressed with so far about Nige.

Think it depends how he evaluated what he had here.  My defence of Nige goes beyond what is just happening on the pitch.  He’s performing a wider role than the previous head-coaches in the old set up.  He’s putting other stuff in place too.  We can of course judge purely on the green-grass, and I’m a tad disappointed in that respect, but a bit like O’Driscoll there’s a bigger picture in play, and the “results” off the pitch are a slow burn on it.

Really hope he improves things as I do like him. Knowing us we will probably go and get a decent result in our next game and then lose and look awful at home to a struggling Barnsley!

Comments above. Good post though.

3 hours ago, VT05763 said:

LJ had to sell his best players and replace them with (mostly) inferior ones.

Secondary question - why did he have to sell his best players?  One part of the answer is because “he” (the collective involved in recruitment, not just LJ) wasted a shedload on fees and wages, etc on players.  You can bring in circa £22m net in 19/20 selling Webster, Pack and Brownhill (best players) but he still spent circa £25 (inferior players) replacing them:

I don’t buy the LJ sob story.  Sell 3 or 4 players, buy / loan 17 players….fees alone were greater than he netted, plus 17 players wages are astronomically greater than the outgoing players.

Im sure you’ve seen the various accounts posts / excel pics I’ve put up.

If he sold Webster, Pack and Brownhill and just replaced 1 for 1 with say Kalas, Massengo and Nagy, I’d say he deserved time to transition those two midfielders in (Kalas already acclimatised via loan).

One of my mates, formerly ITK, and LJ’s most ardent fans (and Ashton hater) surprised me when he eluded to which players he thought we LJ signings and which ones weren’t.  I was surprised.  Palmer was an LJ signing according to him.

My usual caveat is; recruitment was a collective.  I hold fault in the collective.  That does not mean Ashton is the devil incarnate, but it doesn’t absolve LJ either.

It pisses me off when I see “LJ had to sell his best players”.

Karl Robinson at MKD used to moan at Cotts for having an expensive squad.  However Cotts kept costs down (to an extent, we were still one of the bigger spenders I’m not denying that) by having a small squad.  Robinson ran with a squad of 30+ players.  He wasted funds that way.

2 hours ago, tin said:

You're right in that LJ had to sell players, but don't be fooled into thinking he didn't want any of the "mostly (inferior) ones" he did sign. He was the head coach and could've said "no" to Ashton or done the principled thing as resigned if Ashton was buying players without his input. LJ insisted on the signings of Brownhill and Webster, he could've vetoed signing the likes of Diony or Palmer (to name just two) if he really wanted to but he wanted his clubs in the bag. All my opinion, of course.

Agree.  See above.  As per a post to @Silvio Dante last night - if you don’t want to be forced to sell your best players, don’t buy crap, and loads of it.  Don’t hedge your bets on 2 or 3 players, do your due diligence on one.

1 hour ago, The Original OTIB said:

As they play 3-4-3, I'd only want Wells up top to be honest. Give them something to worry about when pushing the back 3 up. They won't give a toss about Martin getting in behind so rightly benched and Andi's been crap recently. Needs a wake up call. I agree about Vyner but whould have him central with James behind to link things. I'd start with Scott for Weimann as the 10, Tanner over COD right side. 

As they play 3-4-3, I'd only want Wells up top to be honest. Give them something to worry about when pushing the back 3 up. They won't give a toss about Martin getting in behind so rightly benched and Andi's been crap recently. Needs a wake up call. I agree about Vyner but whould have him central with James behind to link things. I'd start with Scott for Weimann as the 10, Tanner over COD right side. 

As they play 3-4-3, I'd only want Wells up top to be honest. Give them something to worry about when pushing the back 3 up. They won't give a toss about Martin getting in behind so rightly benched and Andi's been crap recently. Needs a wake up call. I agree about Vyner but whould have him central with James behind to link things. I'd start with Scott for Weimann as the 10, Tanner over COD right side. 

Agree with much of the sentiment of this.

My pre-game Cardiff analysis was - don’t let the side CBs and WBs pump passes from just inside their half forward with pressure on the passer.  If they have time to pick a target and get it in the right area with runners, we will be onto a hiding.  If we can pressure the passer we pick up balls with them out of position, over-committed.  We did that pretty well v Cardiff.

Therefore I question Wells’s ability to do that on his own.  Depends how other help him.  A front 2 of him and Weimann could run around like looneys in the press and would stop a lot of danger.  The second benefit is to latch onto our passes in behind them / channels, which is where I totally agree with you.

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm not fully sold on a back 3, as it can leave a side exposed in wide areas. As you say, the wide areas need some protecton.

Something like...Weimann defo not a winger but a wide midfielder.

                     Bentley

Tanner Kalas Atkinson DaSilva/Pring

Weimann  Massengo James Pring/DaSilva

                       Scott

                       Wells

Far from perfect I know, ideally I'd hope for 3 in there centrally but King and Williams are injured, plus nobody seems to trust Bakinson.

I dunno could Scott pull wide right in certain phases and Weimann go central behind Wells- he played central behind Martin at Reading away I seem to recall?

Could play Weimann as a more advanced CM, and have Scott wide right with Pring and DaSilva as the left side in whatever order.

Martin I dunno, played 13...keep playing him from the start week in week out and we'll break him.

I’m not sold either, although I see the benefits of 3 of our better performers (Kalas, Baker and Atkinson) being in the eleven.  Tomorrow, having thought a bit more since Forever BC podcast, there’s a part of me that says back 4 (even Baker at LB), so we can have 6 other players pressing the direct passer.

We will see tomorrow at 14:00.

In that respect would I mind?

Bentley

Tanner | Kalas | Atkinson | Baker

Massengo | Vyner | James | Pring

Scott (Weimann) | Wells

Nope, but I doubt very much that will be the team.

[Waconda]

21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Comments above. Good post though.

Secondary question - why did he have to sell his best players?  One part of the answer is because “he” (the collective involved in recruitment, not just LJ) wasted a shedload on fees and wages, etc on players.  You can bring in circa £22m net in 19/20 selling Webster, Pack and Brownhill (best players) but he still spent circa £25 (inferior players) replacing them:

I don’t buy the LJ sob story.  Sell 3 or 4 players, buy / loan 17 players….fees alone were greater than he netted, plus 17 players wages are astronomically greater than the outgoing players.

Im sure you’ve seen the various accounts posts / excel pics I’ve put up.

If he sold Webster, Pack and Brownhill and just replaced 1 for 1 with say Kalas, Massengo and Nagy, I’d say he deserved time to transition those two midfielders in (Kalas already acclimatised via loan).

One of my mates, formerly ITK, and LJ’s most ardent fans (and Ashton hater) surprised me when he eluded to which players he thought we LJ signings and which ones weren’t.  I was surprised.  Palmer was an LJ signing according to him.

My usual caveat is; recruitment was a collective.  I hold fault in the collective.  That does not mean Ashton is the devil incarnate, but it doesn’t absolve LJ either.

It pisses me off when I see “LJ had to sell his best players”.

Karl Robinson at MKD used to moan at Cotts for having an expensive squad.  However Cotts kept costs down (to an extent, we were still one of the bigger spenders I’m not denying that) by having a small squad.  Robinson ran with a squad of 30+ players.  He wasted funds that way.

Agree.  See above.  As per a post to @Silvio Dante last night - if you don’t want to be forced to sell your best players, don’t buy crap, and loads of it.  Don’t hedge your bets on 2 or 3 players, do your due diligence on one.

Agree with much of the sentiment of this.

My pre-game Cardiff analysis was - don’t let the side CBs and WBs pump passes from just inside their half forward with pressure on the passer.  If they have time to pick a target and get it in the right area with runners, we will be onto a hiding.  If we can pressure the passer we pick up balls with them out of position, over-committed.  We did that pretty well v Cardiff.

Therefore I question Wells’s ability to do that on his own.  Depends how other help him.  A front 2 of him and Weimann could run around like looneys in the press and would stop a lot of danger.  The second benefit is to latch onto our passes in behind them / channels, which is where I totally agree with you.

I’m not sold either, although I see the benefits of 3 of our better performers (Kalas, Baker and Atkinson) being in the eleven.  Tomorrow, having thought a bit more since Forever BC podcast, there’s a part of me that says back 4 (even Baker at LB), so we can have 6 other players pressing the direct passer.

We will see tomorrow at 14:00.

In that respect would I mind?

Bentley

Tanner | Kalas | Atkinson | Baker

Massengo | Vyner | James | Pring

Scott (Weimann) | Wells

Nope, but I doubt very much that will be the team.

Why have you only mentioned 3 of the sales ?  Reid, Bryan and Kelly for example. Are you only talking about a part of LJs tenure ?

[Silvio Dante]

29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Agree.  See above.  As per a post to @Silvio Dante last night - if you don’t want to be forced to sell your best players, don’t buy crap, and loads of it.  Don’t hedge your bets on 2 or 3 players, do your due diligence on one.

 

Dave - I genuinely can’t remember a conversation like that last night. Can you point me to it???

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Why have you only mentioned 3 of the sales ?  Reid, Bryan and Kelly for example. Are you only talking about a part of LJs tenure ?

Because I took one season.  Why?

It was The season we received the most transfer income (not net per se).

It was This season that included sales of players he signed.

It was the season that as a worst case shows scattergun recruitment, clubs in the bag approach of quantity over quality….and why I don’t like the LJ sympathy card.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

Just now, Silvio Dante said:

Dave - I genuinely can’t remember a conversation like that last night. Can you point me to it???

Ah nuts…

@ray savinonot you, same difference, sounds similar!

Basically be a bit frugal to control when you sell, not have to sell.

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Because I took one season.  Why?

It was The season we received the most transfer income (not net per se).

It was This season that included sales of players he signed.

It was the season that as a worst case shows scattergun recruitment, clubs in the bag approach of quantity over quality.

Oh I see, not a full account of players sales and signings of the LJ era - makes sense. Thanks

[Northern Red]

FFS.

[Davefevs]

Just now, VT05763 said:

Oh I see, not a full account of players sales and signings of the LJ era - makes sense. Thanks

Nope, I’ve done that to death

[mozo]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Comments above. Good post though.

Secondary question - why did he have to sell his best players?  One part of the answer is because “he” (the collective involved in recruitment, not just LJ) wasted a shedload on fees and wages, etc on players.  You can bring in circa £22m net in 19/20 selling Webster, Pack and Brownhill (best players) but he still spent circa £25 (inferior players) replacing them:

I don’t buy the LJ sob story.  Sell 3 or 4 players, buy / loan 17 players….fees alone were greater than he netted, plus 17 players wages are astronomically greater than the outgoing players.

Im sure you’ve seen the various accounts posts / excel pics I’ve put up.

If he sold Webster, Pack and Brownhill and just replaced 1 for 1 with say Kalas, Massengo and Nagy, I’d say he deserved time to transition those two midfielders in (Kalas already acclimatised via loan).

One of my mates, formerly ITK, and LJ’s most ardent fans (and Ashton hater) surprised me when he eluded to which players he thought we LJ signings and which ones weren’t.  I was surprised.  Palmer was an LJ signing according to him.

My usual caveat is; recruitment was a collective.  I hold fault in the collective.  That does not mean Ashton is the devil incarnate, but it doesn’t absolve LJ either.

It pisses me off when I see “LJ had to sell his best players”.

Karl Robinson at MKD used to moan at Cotts for having an expensive squad.  However Cotts kept costs down (to an extent, we were still one of the bigger spenders I’m not denying that) by having a small squad.  Robinson ran with a squad of 30+ players.  He wasted funds that way.

Agree.  See above.  As per a post to @Silvio Dante 

In that respect would I mind?

Bentley

Tanner | Kalas | Atkinson | Baker

Massengo | Vyner | James | Pring

Scott (Weimann) | Wells

Nope, but I doubt very much that will be the team.

Sorry who's this "Vyner" guy you've included in that line up...?