Championship this season is a joke

[Baldyman]

Setting aside our own form for a minute , it has to be said that post lockdown the ridiculous gulf between the sides with Prem money on board and those without ( and struggling financially now) is utterly laughable this season . The top 3 will , if present trends continue , be approx 30-40 points clear of the 7th placed side by the and of the season . Bournemouth are presently creating a gap of 0.8 points per game between them and 7 th spot ! Whatever happened to anyone can beat anyone in this league ? 

[downendcity]

1 minute ago, Baldyman said:

Setting aside our own form for a minute , it has to be said that post lockdown the ridiculous gulf between the sides with Prem money on board and those without ( and struggling financially now) is utterly laughable this season . The top 3 will , if present trends continue , be approx 30-40 points clear of the 7th placed side by the and of the season . Bournemouth are presently creating a gap of 0.8 points per game between them and 7 th spot ! Whatever happened to anyone can beat anyone in this league ? 

Everyone can beat us.

[pl00peh91]

Just now, downendcity said:

Everyone can beat us.

We’ve only lost 6 out of 14 games 

[downendcity]

2 minutes ago, pl00peh91 said:

We’ve only lost 6 out of 14 games 

I was being facetious. 

[Baldyman]

Just now, downendcity said:

I was being facetious. 

Glad you had to spell that not me

[Mr Popodopolous]

This is a strong point and tbh I think the top 3 will finish the top 3 in whatever order, but are we so sure of 4th-6th? IMO no- a lot of those below the top 3 have strengths and weaknesses and of those top 3, if Bournemouth and WBA get injuries to the extent that we do, the depth may not be as strong as their current results suggest.

[cidercity1987]

5th is on for 69 points awful

In all likelihood Sheff parachute Utd will come through the pack to secure a safe play off place 

 

[Pezo]

It is a joke, it's basically 3 premier league teams and one basket case of a premier league side (that will still make the playoffs) playing against a mix of 4 traditionally average championship sides, 5 plucky underdogs doing well (I've had to stretch that definition quite a bit) and all the rest are championship basket cases to different degrees.

[cidercity1987]

The most annoying thing is we wouldn't have had to be very good at all to make the play offs this season. 17/18 and 18/19 squads would have done it with ease 

[Wiltshire robin]

2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

The most annoying thing is we wouldn't have had to be very good at all to make the play offs this season. 17/18 and 18/19 squads would have done it with ease 

We should of really made the play offs in at least one of those seasons anyway tbh, poor management cost us those seasons .

[Pezo]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

The most annoying thing is we wouldn't have had to be very good at all to make the play offs this season. 17/18 and 18/19 squads would have done it with ease 

Yes in hindsight we made a mistake by spending money on trying to get promoted a couple years ago and fell short, now we don't have the money to challenge at the opportune moment.

For those economic experts I guess this is standard fiscal policy and as we don't have a money tree can't do counter fiscal policy.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Wiltshire robin said:

We should of really made the play offs in at least one of those seasons anyway tbh, poor management cost us those seasons .

Definitely 2017/18, 2018/19 a bit more touch and go IMO. 

In slight mitigation for 2017/18, there were a string of unusual decisions by the officials across the season, some were quite costly! Although hitting the woodwork as much as we did, conversion rate a bit better and maybe we make them anyway.

Can list examples of both.

[Wiltshire robin]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Definitely 2017/18, 2018/19 a bit more touch and go IMO. 

In slight mitigation for 2017/18, there were a string of unusual decisions by the officials across the season, some were quite costly! Although hitting the woodwork as much as we did, conversion rate a bit better and maybe we make them anyway.

Can list examples of both.

Yeh the thing I remember the most from that season is when wolves scored that last minute winner . I felt completely crushed and so did the team obviously as we completely capsized from then on .

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

Yeh the thing I remember the most from that season is when wolves scored that last minute winner . I felt completely crushed and so did the team obviously as we completely capsized from then on .

I made a mistake, I meant 2018/19 in terms of woodwork and unusual refereeing decisions.

Regards 2017/18, largely agree. Mostly after that Wolves game the performance level, the style fell off a cliff- there were IMO some exceptions but it was steadily fading from view and by say Cardiff away with Diony and Diedhiou was it up front it had all but gone.

The exceptions in my view:

1) The two Cup games v Man City.

2) 1st half vs a solid lower midtable QPR until the Baker red but overall was good, the spirit 2nd half with 10- felt like a turning point! Sadly was just a cul-de-sac.

3) 1st half v Sunderland and Leeds. Quite good...shame they didn't end at HT eh!

4) Fulham home draw. We were under the cosh at times but thought signs of identity at others, remember that Fulham smashed most sides post Christmas.

5) 1st half vs Sheffield Wednesday. We sort of killed the game 2nd half.

6) Thought parts of the Hull 5-5 mad draw showed glimpses, other bits however were well short.

6 League games post the Wolves collapse and the Cup games. Even then only in parts for the League one,  regressed hugely.

[Wiltshire robin]

43 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I made a mistake, I meant 2018/19 in terms of woodwork and unusual refereeing decisions.

Regards 2017/18, largely agree. Mostly after that Wolves game the performance level, the style fell off a cliff- there were IMO some exceptions but it was steadily fading from view and by say Cardiff away with Diony and Diedhiou was it up front it had all but gone.

The exceptions in my view:

1) The two Cup games v Man City.

2) 1st half vs a solid lower midtable QPR until the Baker red but overall was good, the spirit 2nd half with 10- felt like a turning point! Sadly was just a cul-de-sac.

3) 1st half v Sunderland and Leeds. Quite good...shame they didn't end at HT eh!

4) Fulham home draw. We were under the cosh at times but thought signs of identity at others, remember that Fulham smashed most sides post Christmas.

5) 1st half vs Sheffield Wednesday. We sort of killed the game 2nd half.

6) Thought parts of the Hull 5-5 mad draw showed glimpses, other bits however were well short.

6 League games post the Wolves collapse and the Cup games. Even then only in parts for the League one,  regressed hugely.

Good analysis, I don’t think it helped that after Christmas most players knew that even if we didn’t get promotion they could get a decent move away.

[And Its Smith]

4 hours ago, Baldyman said:

Setting aside our own form for a minute , it has to be said that post lockdown the ridiculous gulf between the sides with Prem money on board and those without ( and struggling financially now) is utterly laughable this season . The top 3 will , if present trends continue , be approx 30-40 points clear of the 7th placed side by the and of the season . Bournemouth are presently creating a gap of 0.8 points per game between them and 7 th spot ! Whatever happened to anyone can beat anyone in this league ? 

Will be even worse if we ever get promoted!

[sh1t_ref_again]

It has been that way every year, at least 2 teams with PP get promoted each year

The premier clubs have tried to ensure a closed shop, by trying to ensure any club relegated is given a massive financial advantage to enable a return over the following 3 years.

I do not no of any other competition that is so rigged

Fans of all the clubs outside of this monopoly need to start banding together a protest against the PP clubs ruining football

Either more money from the prem has to filter down so the wealth decreases the divide (not just to the championship) or players contracts have to be changed so that relegated clubs can conform to the FFP rules that the clubs playing in that division have to adhere to without PP

[And Its Smith]

46 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

It has been that way every year, at least 2 teams with PP get promoted each year

The premier clubs have tried to ensure a closed shop, by trying to ensure any club relegated is given a massive financial advantage to enable a return over the following 3 years.

I do not no of any other competition that is so rigged

Fans of all the clubs outside of this monopoly need to start banding together a protest against the PP clubs ruining football

Either more money from the prem has to filter down so the wealth decreases the divide (not just to the championship) or players contracts have to be changed so that relegated clubs can conform to the FFP rules that the clubs playing in that division have to adhere to without PP

The parachute payments are there to give promoted sides the confidence to spend and try to be competitive. They aren’t there to ensure those clubs come back up again quicker.  I’ve never heard a good alternative suggestion. I don’t think asking clubs to risk their financial future to stay in the premier league is the answer 

[Red_Alligator]

Something clearly needs to be  done about the way that PP's work. I can understand the need to prevent any club from imploding as a result of being relegated from the Premier League, but surely the cloth needs to be cut accordingly as with anything else in life?.

[sh1t_ref_again]

9 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

The parachute payments are there to give promoted sides the confidence to spend and try to be competitive. They aren’t there to ensure those clubs come back up again quicker.  I’ve never heard a good alternative suggestion. I don’t think asking clubs to risk their financial future to stay in the premier league is the answer 

PP was turkeys voting against Christmas. Its said that promotion is worth 200m to a club, therefore the new players signed could have contracts that in the event of relegation allow them to be either sold at X value or have a wage reduction that allows the club to comply with FFP of the division they now find themselves in. PL could enforce change so all new contracts are written this way. It will not affect the top clubs as they are never likely to get relegated.

[And Its Smith]

12 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

PP was turkeys voting against Christmas. Its said that promotion is worth 200m to a club, therefore the new players signed could have contracts that in the event of relegation allow them to be either sold at X value or have a wage reduction that allows the club to comply with FFP of the division they now find themselves in. PL could enforce change so all new contracts are written this way. It will not affect the top clubs as they are never likely to get relegated.

Can the premier league enforce parts of contracts ? I’m not sure they can legally.  

[sh1t_ref_again]

4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Can the premier league enforce parts of contracts ? I’m not sure they can legally.  

I'm sure the prem can enforce what ever they want, its there competition the clubs are playing in

[WarksRobin]

15 hours ago, Baldyman said:

Glad you had to spell that not me

One of the few words with all five vowels, not repeated and in order

[And Its Smith]

9 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

I'm sure the prem can enforce what ever they want, its there competition the clubs are playing in

I’ve no idea but it doesn’t sound right to me. They can’t enforce salary caps for example 

[ashton_fan]

COVID has made things worse. Teams without parachute money rely on matchday income and this has been taken away (even this season crowds are down) so FFP has reduced the ability to sign players for clubs like ours because of last season's deficit.

[Clutton Caveman]

11 hours ago, Red_Alligator said:

Something clearly needs to be  done about the way that PP's work. I can understand the need to prevent any club from imploding as a result of being relegated from the Premier League, but surely the cloth needs to be cut accordingly as with anything else in life?.

Perhaps making it compulsory that all player contracts contain a very large salary reduction in the event of relegation would help.

[Flagon]

Yeah, it's mad to think that had we not conceded the injury time goals against Blackpool, Luton and Forest we would have an extra 7 points. The game against West Brom would have billed as a top six clash yet the difference between us couldn't be any greater really. I still think the Forest game left the team really deflated and made the game against West Brom worse though. We may have still lost by same anyway but I'm sure the actual showing would have better.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

PP was turkeys voting against Christmas. Its said that promotion is worth 200m to a club, therefore the new players signed could have contracts that in the event of relegation allow them to be either sold at X value or have a wage reduction that allows the club to comply with FFP of the division they now find themselves in. PL could enforce change so all new contracts are written this way. It will not affect the top clubs as they are never likely to get relegated.

I often think that a mandatory relegation wage reduction clause is the way to go, but you’d have to insert that into every contract, not just promoted clubs.  As it stands you will get a player courted by 2 teams, one uncertain whether they’ll be heading into the Champ says “do you mind if we insert a clause to cut your wages in half”, the other, more bullish says “sign here, we will still pay you if you go down”

The Rodwell / Sunderland one was good in theory.  £70k p.w. Halved on relegation but suspended for a year, e.g. we will pay you £70k in the Champ as an incentive to get us straight back up.  The problem was they went down again.

[downendcity]

18 hours ago, Baldyman said:

Glad you had to spell that not me

You thought I was being feaceshious?  

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

COVID has made things worse. Teams without parachute money rely on matchday income and this has been taken away (even this season crowds are down) so FFP has reduced the ability to sign players for clubs like ours because of last season's deficit.

Agree and disagree.

In many ways I agree with your post but and this isn't to knock SL at all, a) Covid lost revenue is excluded from FFP and b) If the owner is willing and able they can make good the shortfall and keep financing to pre Covid levels, subject to FFP of course. Stoke perhaps an example?

Also the loss for all clubs in, 2019/20 and 2020/21 is added and then halved.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Perhaps making it compulsory that all player contracts contain a very large salary reduction in the event of relegation would help.

Although, quite a lot already have wage flexing built into contracts in the event of relegation. Do you think Norwich, Sheffield United and Watford eg wouldn't? West Brom surely do. Most also sell key assets although I also believe reform is needed.

Think I even read that Bournemouth did with all but 5, but they managed to sell 3 in the Summer window of 2020 offload a 4th in Jan and Begovic left in Summer 2021.

Rodwell obviously didn't but I believe any prudent club would in general.

The one I don't get is Fulham. They sold virtually nobody of note this summer, retained the wages of Mitrovic, added Gazzaniaga, Wilson and Muniz, Silva may not be on tiny wages yet all seems well? Chalobah and someone else from Watford as well joined on deadline day.

Fulham I do not get. Could be a bit of a go up now or hit the buffers type scenario.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Said before but you could keep Parachute Payments but ring-fence for specific issues, perhaps treat it as loans, or cash flow except for the amount equivalent to Championship Solidarity Payments.

Rest is excluded from Profit and Loss, hits Balance Sheet, Cash Flow kinda thing but suddenly you're looking at either significantly more cutbacks more quickly or restraint having to be shown by Championship clubs in order to stay within FFP and enforced through EFL monitoring if needed.

Thereby helping with the competitive balance.

[myol'man]

Yes, but look what happens when they go up. Norwich walked the Championship last season but are getting slaughtered this, WBA, Fulham and now Bournemouth up and down like Irene's drawers. Sheffield United had one good season before the inevitable drop, Brentford enjoying their 5 minutes of glory before the big boys push them back down. 

Agreed, massive gap between the Championship top 3 and the rest, but even bigger gap to survive and thrive in the Premier League. Fair play to Palace and Brighton for breaking the glass ceiling

[Baba Yaga]

Not having a match day income has screwed up the balance of a league which was already dysfunctional. According to this article Championship clubs are spending a lot less on transfers than they were a couple of years ago, premier league transfer fees (not the net spend just the money going out) were down 9% and 11% in the past 2 seasons but championship clubs were down 38% and 64%.

https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/press-releases/articles/premier-league-clubs-spend-1-1-billion-in-summer.html

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

Not having a match day income has screwed up the balance of a league which was already dysfunctional. According to this article Championship clubs are spending a lot less on transfers than they were a couple of years ago, premier league transfer fees (not the net spend just the money going out) were down 9% and 11% in the past 2 seasons but championship clubs were down 38% and 64%.

https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/press-releases/articles/premier-league-clubs-spend-1-1-billion-in-summer.html

Interesting article. The Harry Wilson deal is supposedly a one year loan with obligation to buy for £12m next summer. 

[ashton_fan]

46 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree and disagree.

In many ways I agree with your post but and this isn't to knock SL at all, a) Covid lost revenue is excluded from FFP and b) If the owner is willing and able they can make good the shortfall and keep financing to pre Covid levels, subject to FFP of course. Stoke perhaps an example?

Also the loss for all clubs in, 2019/20 and 2020/21 is added and then halved.

I don't understand what a) is? How is 'lost revenue' calculated and is it then taken off our annual loss as used for FFP?

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

I don't understand what a) is? How is 'lost revenue' calculated and is it then taken off our annual loss as used for FFP?

Essentially, yes.  Certain things will be allowed to be excluded from the FFP return.

[Mr Popodopolous]

53 minutes ago, myol'man said:

Yes, but look what happens when they go up. Norwich walked the Championship last season but are getting slaughtered this, WBA, Fulham and now Bournemouth up and down like Irene's drawers. Sheffield United had one good season before the inevitable drop, Brentford enjoying their 5 minutes of glory before the big boys push them back down. 

Agreed, massive gap between the Championship top 3 and the rest, but even bigger gap to survive and thrive in the Premier League. Fair play to Palace and Brighton for breaking the glass ceiling

I think Brentford might still do okay and tbh given their relative lack of spending in the summer vs significantly increased revenues plus good FFP headroom I am surprised that they did not spend more, their squad looks thin in a few key positions.

Bournemouth on paper shouldn't have dropped IMO, I also would suggest that Watford on paper had a good enough squad to survive in 2019/20- not blaming NP, the damage was done before he arrived.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think Brentford might still do okay and tbh given their relative lack of spending in the summer vs significantly increased revenues plus good FFP headroom I am surprised that they did not spend more, their squad looks thin in a few key positions.

Bournemouth on paper shouldn't have dropped IMO, I also would suggest that Watford on paper had a good enough squad to survive in 2019/20- not blaming NP, the damage was done before he arrived.

He gave them a fighting chance of staying up in fairness.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He gave them a fighting chance of staying up in fairness.

For sure, worded badly by me- damage was done by the prior two managers and he nearly retrieved the situation.

I'm suggesting though that man for man, and credit to him for nearly retrieving it, the prior 2 managers shouldn't have steered them down there- same side that reached Cup final and finished 10th or 11th, then added Dawson, Sarr and Welbeck.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Bar BS3]

On 24/10/2021 at 17:22, pl00peh91 said:

We’ve only lost 6 out of 14 games 

Yeah, but the other 8 teams will get another chance later in the season..! 

[Clutton Caveman]

17 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Although, quite a lot already have wage flexing built into contracts in the event of relegation. Do you think Norwich, Sheffield United and Watford eg wouldn't? West Brom surely do. Most also sell key assets although I also believe reform is needed.

Think I even read that Bournemouth did with all but 5, but they managed to sell 3 in the Summer window of 2020 offload a 4th in Jan and Begovic left in Summer 2021.

Rodwell obviously didn't but I believe any prudent club would in general.

The one I don't get is Fulham. They sold virtually nobody of note this summer, retained the wages of Mitrovic, added Gazzaniaga, Wilson and Muniz, Silva may not be on tiny wages yet all seems well? Chalobah and someone else from Watford as well joined on deadline day.

Fulham I do not get. Could be a bit of a go up now or hit the buffers type scenario.

Perhaps thats why Parker left

[CheddarReds]

Norwich City's domination of the Championship was just as concerning as their failures in the Premier League (inews.co.uk) 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Perhaps thats why Parker left

Could be, had they lost the playoff final to Brentford there were reports that they would have gone into an embargo and maybe more would have developed from there.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The Norwich case study is interesting. I struggle to see how Brentford and Watford have in the space of a few months, become massively better sides than them. Yet the gap is 8 and 10 pts respectively already.

Some writer asked in The Game yesterday where the fight, endeavour and ability,  adventure that saw them go up has gone.

Don't get me wrong the gap is major but also saw it suggested that their stated ambition of being one of the top 26 clubs has basically mentally sealed their fate. Watford I accept were up for several years but seems strange that Norwich when set against say Brentford are so feeble.

[Coxy27]

What are you all talking about, we're going to win the league and I won't hear otherwise!!

[Baldyman]

And Mitrovic just netted his 19th goal of the season in the 16th game !  Nuts ! 

[The Gasbuster]

We are now in 19th place, six points behind 5th placed QPR.

Competitive division or just poor ?

[ralphindevon]

54 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

And Mitrovic just netted his 19th goal of the season in the 16th game !  Nuts ! 

That’s 2 more goals than Bristol City have scored

[One Team]

57 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

And Mitrovic just netted his 19th goal of the season in the 16th game !  Nuts ! 

On £60k a week too mind.

[Lew-T]

59 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

And Mitrovic just netted his 19th goal of the season in the 16th game !  Nuts ! 

He’ll score about 4 next season in the Prem and Fulham will get pumped again.

[Sturny]

And if you dare try and compete finically you’ll get fined and points deducted :laugh: 

[AppyDAZE]

Football is starting to get right on my tits.