Palace's new Academy...

[Kid in the Riot]

Wow. Afraid to say it puts the HPC, which is of course shared by our first team and u-23s, into perspective. 

This is what Premier League money gives you, if you invest well. Palace have a catchment area that has produced a lot of incredible talent of late, so this will serve them very well in the future. 

 

[Taz]

Can't watch it all as I'm at work and the mobile signal isn't great, and the video keeps buffering.

From what I can see though, you're right it really does put our HPC to shame. 

This is the perfect example of why we need to get to the Premiership, even if we end up yo-yo-ing for a while. 

Don't get me wrong, we are heading in the right direction, and for a club our size we have brilliant facilities. Premier League money can give you so much more though if used correctly.

[B-Rizzle]

Yep, on this…

It does frustrates me that we keep pushing our HPC as some out-of-this-world training complex that premier league clubs would envy. 

Yes, it is bloody brilliant and a massive step forward for us as a club and I expect there are some premier league training grounds that might be a bit dated now.

But you only have to look at this video and Brighton’s new training ground etc to realise that there are much bigger and much better training grounds at most clubs bigger than us.

When the media team ask new players or staff what they think of the the HPC and how it compares with other training complexes, it does make me laugh.

[BS3_RED]

17 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

Yep, on this…

It does frustrates me that we keep pushing our HPC as some out-of-this-world training complex that premier league clubs would envy. 

Yes, it is bloody brilliant and a massive step forward for us as a club and I expect there are some premier league training grounds that might be a bit dated now.

But you only have to look at this video and Brighton’s new training ground etc to realise that there are much bigger and much better training grounds at most clubs bigger than us.

When the media team ask new players or staff what they think of the the HPC and how it compares with other training complexes, it does make me laugh.

Yep, I feel the same. HPC is a huge step up for us but compared to what some other clubs have its basic. 

 

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/training-grounds.872664/page-56#post-175801932

 

I am not complaining just being pragmatic. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by BS3_RED

[Lew-T]

That first rooms reminds me of a London bar! Very smart though.

You look at Leicester’s training complex, unbelievable facilities! Granted they’ve done exceptionally well in the past 10 years, but they were a League One side not so long ago.

Anything can happen, we just have to get it right. 

[lenred]

27 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

Yep, on this…

It does frustrates me that we keep pushing our HPC as some out-of-this-world training complex that premier league clubs would envy. 

Yes, it is bloody brilliant and a massive step forward for us as a club and I expect there are some premier league training grounds that might be a bit dated now.

But you only have to look at this video and Brighton’s new training ground etc to realise that there are much bigger and much better training grounds at most clubs bigger than us.

When the media team ask new players or staff what they think of the the HPC and how it compares with other training complexes, it does make me laugh.

Agree - gets to the point where it’s slightly cringey. Fantastic that we have the facility and a massive improvement on what we had, but it’s nothing more than average when you see some of the others around.  Just shows how difficult it is to keep up with the more moneyed clubs, got to run just to stand still. 

[Tinmans Love Child]

And then you have ‘The Quarters’ which looks like a local rugby teams club house, and is much further away from our own HPC than our HPC is from the Prem facilities 

[David Brent]

39 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

Yep, on this…

It does frustrates me that we keep pushing our HPC as some out-of-this-world training complex that premier league clubs would envy. 

Yes, it is bloody brilliant and a massive step forward for us as a club and I expect there are some premier league training grounds that might be a bit dated now.

But you only have to look at this video and Brighton’s new training ground etc to realise that there are much bigger and much better training grounds at most clubs bigger than us.

When the media team ask new players or staff what they think of the the HPC and how it compares with other training complexes, it does make me laugh.

It’s better than anything we’ve had though. Why can’t the club be proud of it. Not sure if any of our new signings are coming from Palace, Brighton or other premier league clubs with impressive training facilities. 

[Bristol Rob]

No point comparing our facilities with those of a Premier League club. 

Might as well compare wage bills.

They are in an entirely different financial position to the rest of football and whilst it might be great for their academy kids to have these outstanding facilities, they will still need to go to the Mem on a Tuesday night to try and win a Pizza. 

Which I don't imagine this new botanical garden that has 9G under soil heating with a 4 speed infinity pool and crazy golf is going to help them with*.

*Might not have paid full attention to the facilities on offer.

[Coxy27]

1 hour ago, Taz said:

This is the perfect example of why we need to get to the Premiership

To do that, we would have to transfer to the Scottish League system.

[Ska Junkie]

A bit of perspective, this is stunning!

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

13 minutes ago, David Brent said:

It’s better than anything we’ve had though. Why can’t the club be proud of it. Not sure if any of our new signings are coming from Palace, Brighton or other premier league clubs with impressive training facilities. 

No reason not to be proud but the constant reference to both stadium and training ground upgrades, to the point of overkill, comes off as small time to some.  

6 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Atkinson signed from Oxford, his prior clubs (including loans) bar Fulham all likely to have worse training facilities than ours.
Tanner joined from Carlisle. Admittedly before that he was at Manchester Utd, but whether their youth facilities and training ones are together I dont know.

Or alternatively, over half our team have played in the Premier League and at bigger clubs than us.

Not that you'd know it. 

[bcfc01]

Aside from the dome which is a fantastic facility, and the 3g pitches, I don't see a great deal of difference in actual facilities to the HPC. The buildings look a bit meh as well.

The Leicester facility is the aspiration imo.

 

 

[archie andrews]

Ours is better.... 

[PHILINFRANCE]

59 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

This is the perfect example of why we need to get to the Premiership.

To do that, we would have to transfer to the Scottish League system.

@BS4 on Tour... would be very proud of you .

[Simon bristol]

Im just glad we are seeing the results of the high performance centre with the high performance standards on the pitch

[Lanterne Rouge]

20 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

@BS4 on Tour... would be very proud of you .

You have learned well young grasshopper.

[Red Army 75]

It is a very nice facility. They have incorporated a lot of offices there and classrooms. Selhurst park is a very old stadium and I expect the office facilities there are tired. We have all of that at the refurbished Ashton Gate . 
 

It is a impressive centre though 

[Ostrich]

Pretty impressive as a site just for their academy, although strange that it will presumably be better than the first team training ground now and I think there’s advantages to being all on one site but just to get them ext to each other in London is decent enough. 

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

You have learned well young grasshopper.

I’ve used that in work, and the young’uns haven’t got a clue what I’m on about.

[The Original OTIB]

21 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

It is a very nice facility. They have incorporated a lot of offices there and classrooms. Selhurst park is a very old stadium and I expect the office facilities there are tired. We have all of that at the refurbished Ashton Gate . 
 

It is a impressive centre though 

Correct, Selhurst Park is a creaking dump with less capacity than Ashton Gate. Swings and roundabouts, as they say. Much better "atmosphere" though ... even in the lower leagues.

[The Original OTIB]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve used that in work, and the young’uns haven’t got a clue what I’m on about.

I didn't get where I am today by knowing about young people and grasshoppers ...

 

Cap doffed to C.J.

[KegCity]

If we ever get access to Premier League money, I hope a significant portion of it is invested into infrastructure. Would be great to upgrade the academy to Category One.

[Atyeo's Love Child]

The HPC is fantastic (NP not keen on the name though), had the tour last night at the NP Q&A.

Really cannot see what else we would need, apart from the indoor pitch & we can use the Bears one up the road.

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

Correct, Selhurst Park is a creaking dump with less capacity than Ashton Gate. Swings and roundabouts, as they say. Much better "atmosphere" though ... even in the lower leagues.

It's 2008, it's the Play-off semi-final.

Two diverging paths lie ahead. 

One is signposted "You'll lose this game, your ground will remain a dump but soon you'll be in the Premier league for 9 consecutive seasons and get to the FA Cup final".

The other "You'll win this game, your ground will get an amazing upgrade but soon you'll be back in the third Division and, er, that's about it".

So "swings and roundabouts" is an almighty understatement - having a shiny new Ashton Gate is frankly no compensation when you look at what Crystal Palace have achieved in recent years where it really counts - on the field of play.     

[The Original OTIB]

8 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

It's 2008, it's the Play-off semi-final.

Two diverging paths lie ahead. 

One is signposted "You'll lose this game, your ground will remain a dump but soon you'll be in the Premier league for 9 consecutive seasons and get to the FA Cup final".

The other "You'll win this game, your ground will get an amazing upgrade but soon you'll be back in the third Division and, er, that's about it".

So "swings and roundabouts" is an almighty understatement - having a shiny new Ashton Gate is frankly no compensation when you look at what Crystal Palace have achieved in recent years where it really counts - on the field of play.     

I was not commenting on anything other than one has an amazing Academey training facility the other a more funcitonal one. One has a nice (mostly) new ground, the other an older, dated and decaying one. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

It's 2008, it's the Play-off semi-final.

Two diverging paths lie ahead. 

One is signposted "You'll lose this game, your ground will remain a dump but soon you'll be in the Premier league for 9 consecutive seasons and get to the FA Cup final".

The other "You'll win this game, your ground will get an amazing upgrade but soon you'll be back in the third Division and, er, that's about it".

So "swings and roundabouts" is an almighty understatement - having a shiny new Ashton Gate is frankly no compensation when you look at what Crystal Palace have achieved in recent years where it really counts - on the field of play.     

Scenario one - you develop the ground with all the money you make in the PL.  think SL might’ve questioned whether h did it the wrong way around.

[RiverRed]

The first minute of that Palace fly-through is just rooms with seating in them. Getting the young 'uns ready for a life on the bench?

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Better comparing our set up to our peers in the championship. Its still a very high end facility. You aren't getting those kind of facilities at Luton, Millwall, QPR etc 

You can have all the kit in the world but if the coaches aren't up to snuff then it's pointless. 

It's like me playing golf with amazing clubs, I still hit it into the pond. 

[Simon bristol]

We also share facilities with the bears, and their building looks amazing 

[TV Tom]

Can’t believe that people on here are comparing an always underachieving middle to lower end championship club that loses money year in and out with well established premiership clubs, be thankful for what we have got, it could be the quarters

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 hours ago, Coxy27 said:

To do that, we would have to transfer to the Scottish League system.

Yesssss! Thank you! It’s not just me then ...

[B-Rizzle]

6 hours ago, harrys said:

Can’t believe that people on here are comparing an always underachieving middle to lower end championship club that loses money year in and out with well established premiership clubs, be thankful for what we have got, it could be the quarters

Read what we’ve said. We are very thankful for what we’ve got.

Our comments are based on the club and its media team comparing us with prem teams - not us.

[Bobby kellard hero]

Absolutely fantastic for a club who’s history is in the 3rd division as ours is.

[reddoh]

I thought the Bored room was very apt.

[Kid in the Riot]

7 hours ago, harrys said:

Can’t believe that people on here are comparing an always underachieving middle to lower end championship club that loses money year in and out with well established premiership clubs, be thankful for what we have got, it could be the quarters

Rewind 10 or so years and that certainly wasn't the case. On a completely different level to us now though. 

[CyderInACan]

8 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

We also share facilities with the bears, and their building looks amazing 

Everyone knows that the Bears are Steve Lansdown’s first priority, yeah? 

[Bris Red]

That looks a great facility from Palace to be fair. Selhurst is a crumbling mess though and Ashton Gate is streets ahead of it as a stadium so you could argue that our infrastructure as a whole is actually better than Crystal Palace.

[Lrrr]

What we’ve been told is the HPC is a premier league standard facility, that’s what it is, others will have better naturally but the facilities are those adequate for a premier league club. And certainly above championship standard. 

[Lrrr]

53 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Burnley too are investing heavily. I do not understand why we have not gone for Cat 1 so we play the top youth teams and outside of FFP. We have had great investment, but it was relative to the lack of investment in the past not compared to others. We have a good facility and ground for the championship, it is not Prem level. Look at what Leicester are doing with ground and training facility

We won’t go Cat 1, it goes against the policy the club holds of loaning players out, we’d need to keep our best team in house playing a false style of football seen in academy football with no stakes rather than out on loan playing in the leagues for starters and that’s only one reason why we won’t 

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

We won’t go Cat 1, it goes against the policy the club holds of loaning players out, we’d need to keep our best team in house playing a false style of football seen in academy football with no stakes rather than out on loan playing in the leagues for starters and that’s only one reason why we won’t 

Out of interest, and I’m asking because I don’t know….if we did go Cat 1 and played better opponents woukd that be better than loaning to Exeter or Weston, or whoever.  Would Towler develop better playing for our u23s than going to Grimsby?

I guess I’m asking is our loan model because we are Cat 2 or because it is right regardless of Cat status?

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, and I’m asking because I don’t know….if we did go Cat 1 and played better opponents woukd that be better than loaning to Exeter or Weston, or whoever.  Would Towler develop better playing for our u23s than going to Grimsby?

I guess I’m asking is our loan model because we are Cat 2 or because it is right regardless of Cat status?

Personally I think loaning is better, a greater variation of styles/systems to play against, adult players so they have to be smart about how they play, they have to earn a spot in the starting XI going out and the importance of winning, an academies objective is to supply players for the first team at some point, not to win games. You can’t get promoted or relegation in academy football (apart from cat 1 under 23’s) so losing in academy football doesn’t mean as much as scrapping for 3 points to get promotion or avoid relegation 

[Supersonic Robin]

16 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

Yep, on this…

It does frustrates me that we keep pushing our HPC as some out-of-this-world training complex that premier league clubs would envy. 

Yes, it is bloody brilliant and a massive step forward for us as a club and I expect there are some premier league training grounds that might be a bit dated now.

But you only have to look at this video and Brighton’s new training ground etc to realise that there are much bigger and much better training grounds at most clubs bigger than us.

When the media team ask new players or staff what they think of the the HPC and how it compares with other training complexes, it does make me laugh.

Agree, the HPC is a big step up *for us*, but many large championship teams and most premier league teams would have a chuckle when they see us marvelling at it.

People will of course point out that these teams ought to have better facilities since they're competing at a higher level, but that's the point!

Should we be a club who resign ourselves to never being able to compete with the likes of Brighton and Crystal Palace? I bloody hope not!

 

[Port Said Red]

5 hours ago, billywedlock said:

But Chelsea loan players out. Not sure the two are linked . That Palace and Burnley and Leeds have pushed for cat 1 , and primarily for-the quality of football and ability to sign players from a wider pool  , alongside our failure in a general sense I cannot see our approach is the winning one . 

I don't think Chelsea are a good comparison, they use players the way Hirerite use machinery, rent it out for a few years then sell it when new stock comes in.

Going back to Palace, how far out of London did they have to go to get that much land? I also didn't see much in the way of sustainability of materials or energy, I thought most organisations were quick to emphasise that these days? 

[grifty]

6 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Agree, the HPC is a big step up *for us*, but many large championship teams and most premier league teams would have a chuckle when they see us marvelling at it.

People will of course point out that these teams ought to have better facilities since they're competing at a higher level, but that's the point!

Should we be a club who resign ourselves to never being able to compete with the likes of Brighton and Crystal Palace? I bloody hope not!

Why shouldn't the club be proud of the HPC? It's a facility which matches our club in terms of size and what it can offer us. Do you think we should have built a £100m facility like Leicester? Whats the point in that!? Do you think we should build a 60,000 seater stadium to compete with the top end Prem teams? No, we buy players and build infrastructure that fit in where we are now and that will allow us to grow into the next achievable level where we aim to be.

People are starting to get so desperate to knock anything about the club. There's a lot more to criticise than comparing our facility to a club which has had 7/8 years of Prem TV money and then crying about it.

[Kid in the Riot]

10 hours ago, bris red said:

That looks a great facility from Palace to be fair. Selhurst is a crumbling mess though and Ashton Gate is streets ahead of it as a stadium so you could argue that our infrastructure as a whole is actually better than Crystal Palace.

Depends what you prioritise I suppose, commercial revenue or success on the pitch.

[beaverface]

For all the Premier League money that allows clubs to build their  infrastructure, there's also the Boltons of the World who literally had a fire sale and sold everything they had when they went on a downward slope.

The premier league is great for those teams in it, but once outside, it's extremely difficult for the others.

Imagine having to pay the maintenance and upkeep of Leicesters or Palaces new training ground when in league 1.

Newcastle is years behind due to lack of infrastructure investment, and yet they've been in the premier league for a few years.

I just we need to live to our own means.

[B-Rizzle]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, and I’m asking because I don’t know….if we did go Cat 1 and played better opponents woukd that be better than loaning to Exeter or Weston, or whoever.  Would Towler develop better playing for our u23s than going to Grimsby?

I guess I’m asking is our loan model because we are Cat 2 or because it is right regardless of Cat status?

Good question. My understanding (and I can’t quite remember) was based on an interview Tins gave a while ago…

He basically suggested that, if we were to go cat 1, the quality of opponents we’d be up against would mean we’d have to keep our U-23 players on site, rather than on loan, in order to compete.

I guess the club have weighed up over the years whether Cat 1 is worth the investment. I suppose they’ve concluded that our best option for developing players for our first team is to stay one step behind (in Cat 2) and get players out on loan etc.

Don’t know enough about all the pros and cons myself to form a strong opinion.

Although SL clearly has the money make us Cat 1, perhaps it doesn’t fit in with our sustainability model as it would require so much extra funding each year which we cannot sustain whilst in the championship.

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, grifty said:

Why shouldn't the club be proud of the HPC? It's a facility which matches our club in terms of size and what it can offer us. Do you think we should have built a £100m facility like Leicester? Whats the point in that!? Do you think we should build a 60,000 seater stadium to compete with the top end Prem teams? No, we buy players and build infrastructure that fit in where we are now and that will allow us to grow into the next achievable level where we aim to be.

People are starting to get so desperate to knock anything about the club. There's a lot more to criticise than comparing our facility to a club which has had 7/8 years of Prem TV money and then crying about it.

Nothing wrong with being proud of the HPC, I just think we probably overhype it a bit sometimes. It's a good step forward for us, but as others have said, it's not THAT spectacular relative to what others (e.g. Palace, Brighton) have......others who, a decade ago, were also in the championship with us. 

The frustration is that the gap has grown, and we're now looking up at those teams in awe. You capture this well in your last sentence "comparing to a club which has had 7/8 years of Prem TV money" - look at what they've done, and look at what we've done. 

It's not about trying to knock the club, it's just interesting to occasionally step back and contextualise our "achievements".

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

Good question. My understanding (and I can’t quite remember) was based on an interview Tins gave a while ago…

He basically suggested that, if we were to go cat 1, the quality of opponents we’d be up against would mean we’d have to keep our U-23 players on site, rather than on loan, in order to compete.

I guess the club have weighed up over the years whether Cat 1 is worth the investment. I suppose they’ve concluded that our best option for developing players for our first team is to stay one step behind (in Cat 2) and get players out on loan etc.

Don’t know enough about all the pros and cons myself to form a strong opinion.

Although SL clearly has the money make us Cat 1, perhaps it doesn’t fit in with our sustainability model as it would require so much extra funding each year which we cannot sustain whilst in the championship.

Ta, vaguely recall that.

My follow-up question is:

- are we developing our players for the first team of today, or the first team of tomorrow….and what is the best way of doing that?

To explain, we’ve come from a point not so far ago where an academy player needed be be Lg1 ability, now they need to be Champ ability….and in fairness we’ve been pretty good at getting them to that level, and in some cases (Bryan / Reid / Kelly) beyond.  So it looks like we are doing it right.  Can we get more through?

I do like that Kelly and Scott didn’t have loans…ready for first team almost immediately they came of age.