Head Tennis

[Waconda]

I have never seen so many occasions of midfield head tennis in a professional football game as I did today.

There was one rally of at least 12 in the first half.

Strange.

[054123]

I have.

Oxford v City, Jan 1999. I counted a rally of 14 that day.

[And Its Smith]

Amazing that Fulham v WBA and City v Barnsley is the same division. The matches were miles apart in ability 

[milo1111]

2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Amazing that Fulham v WBA and City v Barnsley is the same division. The matches were miles apart in ability 

And the budgets. Parachute payments are making the championship a farce. 

[ZiderEyed]

I'm actually impressed at the level of dissatisfaction from the crowd at the shite on show in the first half. It was on the cusp of getting very unpleasant. 

[And Its Smith]

Just now, milo1111 said:

And the budgets. Parachute payments are making the championship a farce. 

Yeah I appreciate why although parachute payments have always been there. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

Was always impressed and surprised with Tony Blair, keeping it up with Kevin Keegan. Can't see Michael Foot/Ed Milliebland/Jezza Coyrbn managing more than one .... 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Yeah I appreciate why although parachute payments have always been there. 

Ok, PPs and pandemic!  Hardly any money spent by non-PP clubs in the summer.  Fulham able to do deals like Harry Wilson on a season’s loan with obligation to buy for £12m.  It’s just widening the gap.

[Waconda]

11 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

I'm actually impressed at the level of dissatisfaction from the crowd at the shite on show in the first half. It was on the cusp of getting very unpleasant. 

It was about to get very ugly ....... and then we scored.

Could that be the moment when things turned for the better.

[ZiderEyed]

2 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

It was about to get very ugly ....... and then we scored.

Could that be the moment when things turned for the better.

I dread to think what it'd have been like had they gone 2 up. First time I've ever heard booing of a performance at home, and not immediately after a goal. Weimann's horribly weighted pass seemed to set off a fuse with the people around me. 

I think we'll look at that first Weimann goal like the Wolves game under Johnson eventually. 

[SuperDziek]

36 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Amazing that Fulham v WBA and City v Barnsley is the same division. The matches were miles apart in ability 

Yep. Barnsley really dragging the level down. 

[City1970]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ok, PPs and pandemic!  Hardly any money spent by non-PP clubs in the summer.  Fulham able to do deals like Harry Wilson on a season’s loan with obligation to buy for £12m.  It’s just widening the gap.

It’s up to clubs like City to close the gap. Fulham, Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford were not given the payments, they earned it as clubs. City need to learn from their experience.

[ohhhshauntaylor]

14 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

 

I think we'll look at that first Weimann goal like the Wolves game under Johnson eventually. 

Maybe an overreaction to say this is/could be a turning point- but today was all about the Win, and we did that, the ugly way. 
 

We’re a work in progress, and have to accept that for this season, but certainly the home monkey is off the back now. 
time to make AG like that all the time now in terms of the vocal support. If the players show willing/effort, the fans will more than back them. 
 

[RedNachos]

Not a great watch, but shows us the quality of particularly Kalas, and mentons to Atkinson, James and Tanner, of how competitive we are in the air. Impressive stuff.

Edited October 30, 2021 by RedNachos

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Maybe an overreaction to say this is/could be a turning point- but today was all about the Win, and we did that, the ugly way. 
 

We’re a work in progress, and have to accept that for this season, but certainly the home monkey is off the back now. 
time to make AG like that all the time now in terms of the vocal support. If the players show willing/effort, the fans will more than back them. 
 

I didn't see any lack of will or effort from the players today, a lack of confidence and some confusion at times, yes.

Hopefully we will come to a formation and system of play that gets the best out of them.

Can't help but feel we "dodged a bullet" today but we did dodge it.

[Pezo]

10 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

I dread to think what it'd have been like had they gone 2 up. First time I've ever heard booing of a performance at home, and not immediately after a goal. Weimann's horribly weighted pass seemed to set off a fuse with the people around me. 

I think we'll look at that first Weimann goal like the Wolves game under Johnson eventually. 

Forget 2 up, if they had gone in at half time at 0-1 the place would have erupted.

Let's face facts for at least 35 mins of the first half we weren't in a game against the worse side in the league. We actually seemed to give them the belief they could win the game on a platter, they are a league 1 side and we looked non league for a lot of that game.

 

[joe jordans teeth]

8 minutes ago, City1970 said:

It’s up to clubs like City to close the gap. Fulham, Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford were not given the payments, they earned it as clubs. City need to learn from their experience.

If you mean by spending massively to earn it like Bournemouth and Fulham then we won’t do that 

[lenred]

15 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

I didn't see any lack of will or effort from the players today, a lack of confidence and some confusion at times, yes.

Hopefully we will come to a formation and system of play that gets the best out of them.

Can't help but feel we "dodged a bullet" today but we did dodge it.

Bet you’re gutted tonight…

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

Bet you’re gutted tonight…

Not at all, we can't afford to get relegated.

[robin_unreliant]

17 minutes ago, RedNachos said:

Not a great watch, but shows us the quality of particularly Kalas, and mentons to Atkinson, James and Tanner, of how competitive we are in the air. Impressive stuff.

HNM was one of our better players imo. I thought James was pretty poor. His corners weren't great either. 

[lenred]

Just now, VT05763 said:

Not at all, we can't afford to get relegated.

No shit. 

[Davefevs]

58 minutes ago, City1970 said:

It’s up to clubs like City to close the gap. Fulham, Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford were not given the payments, they earned it as clubs. City need to learn from their experience.

Mmmmm, cheated FFP and got a paltry fine.  Poorly handled by EFL.

Brighton and Brentford good examples though.  Fulham we’re up in the prem for a good few years a little while back, so have had prior years money as well as recently.

But I agree, we need a plan, a better plan….let’s hope the current one is it.

Get the feeling Nige is gonna go young.

[Scare_Man]

I cannot recall a professional game where there has been so many headers. Showed the massive lack in quality in both teams

[Mr Popodopolous]

Surely back in the third tier under Pulis this would have been a bit of a theme? Especially as that level is less robust than back then. 

[Offside]

2 hours ago, VT05763 said:

It was about to get very ugly ....... and then we scored.

Could that be the moment when things turned for the better.

Definitely felt like a turning point. 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

5 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Amazing that Fulham v WBA and City v Barnsley is the same division. The matches were miles apart in ability 

Different worlds  mate 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

3 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

HNM was one of our better players imo. I thought James was pretty poor. His corners weren't great either. 

Agreed Han best by a mile today 

[Bris Red]

9 hours ago, milo1111 said:

And the budgets. Parachute payments are making the championship a farce. 

Parachute payments this parachute payments that It’s such an easy cop out IMO.

We had millions of pounds worth of players on that pitch with some earning in excess of £20 k per week and some with top flight games under their belt..all we are/were asking is for players to have the ability and skill set to be able to trap the ball and pick out a pass to another red shirt along the floor to keep possession, **** me if that is so difficult for a professional footballer then i give up irrespective of ******* parachute payments!

Edited October 31, 2021 by bris red

[Monkeh]

58 minutes ago, bris red said:

Parachute payments this parachute payments that It’s such an easy cop out IMO.

We had millions of pounds worth of players on that pitch with some earning in excess of £20 k per week and some with top flight games under their belt..all we are/were asking is for players to have the ability and skill set to be able to trap the ball and pick out a pass to another red shirt along the floor to keep possession, **** me if that is so difficult for a professional footballer then i give up irrespective of ******* parachute payments!

It's not a cop out it's a fact 

Pp have made a 2 tier league 

[MarcusX]

10 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Yeah I appreciate why although parachute payments have always been there. 

It has in some degree but now it lasts for more seasons plus money in the Prem has gone up. Even the team finishing bottom receives something like £90m

[Bris Red]

17 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

It's not a cop out it's a fact 

Pp have made a 2 tier league 

So parachute payments is an excuse for our players to not be able to keep possession and pass the ball 5 yards to eachother? 

[1960maaan]

 

7 hours ago, Offside said:

Definitely felt like a turning point. 

I hope you're right, but going in a goal up at half time I would have hoped to see more 2nd half. 

They are as bad as any team I've seen for a while, and we created very little. Rarely controlled the game and struggled to keep the ball, again . The win was imprtant, but still very worried about performance.

54 minutes ago, bris red said:

Parachute payments this parachute payments that It’s such an easy cop out IMO.

We had millions of pounds worth of players on that pitch with some earning in excess of £20 k per week and some with top flight games under their belt..all we are/were asking is for players to have the ability and skill set to be able to trap the ball and pick out a pass to another red shirt along the floor to keep possession, **** me if that is so difficult for a professional footballer then i give up irrespective of ******* parachute payments!

Easy cop out ? 
Someone getting relegated would have had,
£100m for the year in the Prem.
£40m  First year back in Championship
£30m  2nd Year
£20m  3rd. 

Not sure the figures are current, but they are fairly recent. At the same time the others get £4.5m solidarity payment.  So £13.5m Vs £90m in the same period. Add the problems from the lack of fans money due to COVID and it skews it even more. It allows teams to keep Prem squads together, while the likes of teams like us have to build at a disadvantage. 

An extreme example , 3 different teams relegated each year could mean 9 teams getting that advantage by year 3, a third of the division. It makes a difference.
Look at it another way. Norwich go up pocket £100m, come down pocket £40m , go up £100m , come down (it looks likely) another £40m next year. So those 2 years in the Championship (last years promotion year & Next year) they would be given £80m against our £9m. It's why teams yoyo

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, bris red said:

Parachute payments this parachute payments that It’s such an easy cop out IMO.

We had millions of pounds worth of players on that pitch with some earning in excess of £20 k per week and some with top flight games under their belt..all we are/were asking is for players to have the ability and skill set to be able to trap the ball and pick out a pass to another red shirt along the floor to keep possession, **** me if that is so difficult for a professional footballer then i give up irrespective of ******* parachute payments!

£20k is very little relative to the wages of relegated clubs.

Profrssional players obviously have ability, you aren’t factoring in confidence - and 11 opponents applying pressure 

[And Its Smith]

36 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

 

I hope you're right, but going in a goal up at half time I would have hoped to see more 2nd half. 

They are as bad as any team I've seen for a while, and we created very little. Rarely controlled the game and struggled to keep the ball, again . The win was imprtant, but still very worried about performance.

Easy cop out ? 
Someone getting relegated would have had,
£100m for the year in the Prem.
£40m  First year back in Championship
£30m  2nd Year
£20m  3rd. 

Not sure the figures are current, but they are fairly recent. At the same time the others get £4.5m solidarity payment.  So £13.5m Vs £90m in the same period. Add the problems from the lack of fans money due to COVID and it skews it even more. It allows teams to keep Prem squads together, while the likes of teams like us have to build at a disadvantage. 

An extreme example , 3 different teams relegated each year could mean 9 teams getting that advantage by year 3, a third of the division. It makes a difference.
Look at it another way. Norwich go up pocket £100m, come down pocket £40m , go up £100m , come down (it looks likely) another £40m next year. So those 2 years in the Championship (last years promotion year & Next year) they would be given £80m against our £9m. It's why teams yoyo

What you’ve said may well be correct but it’s answering a point about our players not being able to make simple passes. 53% pass success rate yesterday. 

[Monkeh]

7 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

What you’ve said may well be correct but it’s answering a point about our players not being able to make simple passes. 53% pass success rate yesterday. 

You have to factor in confidence and nerves 

They haven't won in 17 at home that has an effect on players

[And Its Smith]

8 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

You have to factor in confidence and nerves 

They haven't won in 17 at home that has an effect on players

Absolutely and that is it. At least I hope these players are better than that!

[1960maaan]

9 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

What you’ve said may well be correct but it’s answering a point about our players not being able to make simple passes. 53% pass success rate yesterday. 

I've been complaining about that for ages, I played at no real standard but could find a team mate from 5 yards.  But what @Monkeh says is right, nerves and pressure play a big part. Goes a long way in explaining Blackpool, Forest etc. 
With confidence low players tend not to show for passes so much, fewer options for the man on the ball and so misplace passes. That and a tendency to go longer which is a higher risk pass. 

This has been building for some time, it will take some time to sort out. Going back to when Lee Tomlin was here, we were equally as bad and for me he stood out as he was always available, always wanted the ball. Palmer is the same to a lesser extent, he will receive the ball in tight spaces, makes it hard to offload when others aren't so keen . I don't like this direct stuff, some times it's an easy out, hit channels and hope for a runner. We've stopped even pretending to play out from the back now.  Maybe after that win it will improve, but I doubt it will for a while.

[Bazooka Joe]

When the seemingly endless head tennis was in progress, the guy next to me exclaimed "What the deuce !!!?"

I told him to stop moaning and carry on eating his strawberries and cream.

 

[Bris Red]

15 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

What you’ve said may well be correct but it’s answering a point about our players not being able to make simple passes. 53% pass success rate yesterday. 

Exactly, a 53% pass success rate is appalling and unacceptable, our pass rate in yesterdays game had nothing at all to do with parachute payments.

I know very well the figures in regards to parachute payments as has been kindly pointed out by @1960maaan but these payments have been in the Championship for decades - admittedly Covid hasn’t helped the situation. I don’t for one minute expect or demand that we should directly be competing with the West Brom’s Fulham’s and AFCB’s of this world but what we should all expect as paying customers is a team that can keep possession at home for spells and to do it against teams in and around us who have similar and in many cases lower budgets than us.

Hopefully Yesterdays win can be the catalyst for Nige and the boys to kick on now and it would be nice to see us playing something that resembles football in the near future.

[1960maaan]

20 minutes ago, bris red said:

Exactly, a 53% pass success rate is appalling and unacceptable, our pass rate in yesterdays game had nothing at all to do with parachute payments.

I know very well the figures in regards to parachute payments as has been kindly pointed out by @1960maaan but these payments have been in the Championship for decades - admittedly Covid hasn’t helped the situation. I don’t for one minute expect or demand that we should directly be competing with the West Brom’s Fulham’s and AFCB’s of this world but what we should all expect as paying customers is a team that can keep possession at home for spells and to do it against teams in and around us who have similar and in many cases lower budgets than us.

Hopefully Yesterdays win can be the catalyst for Nige and the boys to kick on now and it would be nice to see us playing something that resembles football in the near future.

Right, we are talking 2 different points.

My response about Parachute payments were just that, nothing to do with where we are as a club. IMO the payments skew the competition for the reasons I gave.

53% pass completion is appalling at any level of football, but it's just another symptom of the struggles we have had for 2/3 years. After that short spell of high press, short sharp passing we have gradually drifted, gone longer and took the easy option too often. 
To shake that off and play more football, to control the ball better will take a change in mindset, more bravery in possession and more coaching of possession football. I would have wanted to see more already, but after a few signs we have slid back lately. I hope it was a lot to do with nerves and yesterday helps that. I think it runs deeper though.

[Fordy62]

The 2000/01 Bristol derby opening 90 seconds had some good head tennis. 

[stortfordred]

26 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Right, we are talking 2 different points.

My response about Parachute payments were just that, nothing to do with where we are as a club. IMO the payments skew the competition for the reasons I gave.

53% pass completion is appalling at any level of football, but it's just another symptom of the struggles we have had for 2/3 years. After that short spell of high press, short sharp passing we have gradually drifted, gone longer and took the easy option too often. 
To shake that off and play more football, to control the ball better will take a change in mindset, more bravery in possession and more coaching of possession football. I would have wanted to see more already, but after a few signs we have slid back lately. I hope it was a lot to do with nerves and yesterday helps that. I think it runs deeper though.

Yesterday’s pass rate was appalling but it had a lot to do with lack of movement off the ball. There were no options for the player on the ball. At times (many times) our midfielders were absolutely isolated from one another and thus had to hit hopeful balls. There were no triangles; whether that has to do with nerves or simply not wanting the ball, it means we couldn’t get it down and play. Throw ins were exactly the same: no movement, no one wanting the ball. Benarous has been criticised but I didn’t see him being given options. After one bit of shielding the ball out, HNM went over and praised him. Some of the older players could learn from that. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

What you’ve said may well be correct but it’s answering a point about our players not being able to make simple passes. 53% pass success rate yesterday. 

What’s your “Source” of 53%.

Wyscout 66.89%.

 

For info, we had 106 aerial duels yesterday, season average is 66.  Barnsley and City certainly played their part!

Edited October 31, 2021 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

NB.  More head tennis on Tuesday v Brum!

[And Its Smith]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What’s your “Source” of 53%.

Wyscout 66.89%.

 

For info, we had 106 aerial duels yesterday, season average is 66.  Barnsley and City certainly played their part!

Fotmob. Not sure if it’s always lower. What has wyscout got us for wba and forest? Fotmob has 62% and 66% respectively 

[Super]

 

4 hours ago, bris red said:

Parachute payments this parachute payments that It’s such an easy cop out IMO.

We had millions of pounds worth of players on that pitch with some earning in excess of £20 k per week and some with top flight games under their belt..all we are/were asking is for players to have the ability and skill set to be able to trap the ball and pick out a pass to another red shirt along the floor to keep possession, **** me if that is so difficult for a professional footballer then i give up irrespective of ******* parachute payments!

Yep it's a lazy excuse.

[Sir Geoff]

3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

 

I hope you're right, but going in a goal up at half time I would have hoped to see more 2nd half. 

They are as bad as any team I've seen for a while, and we created very little. Rarely controlled the game and struggled to keep the ball, again . The win was imprtant, but still very worried about performance.

Easy cop out ? 
Someone getting relegated would have had,
£100m for the year in the Prem.
£40m  First year back in Championship
£30m  2nd Year
£20m  3rd. 

Not sure the figures are current, but they are fairly recent. At the same time the others get £4.5m solidarity payment.  So £13.5m Vs £90m in the same period. Add the problems from the lack of fans money due to COVID and it skews it even more. It allows teams to keep Prem squads together, while the likes of teams like us have to build at a disadvantage. 

An extreme example , 3 different teams relegated each year could mean 9 teams getting that advantage by year 3, a third of the division. It makes a difference.
Look at it another way. Norwich go up pocket £100m, come down pocket £40m , go up £100m , come down (it looks likely) another £40m next year. So those 2 years in the Championship (last years promotion year & Next year) they would be given £80m against our £9m. It's why teams yoyo

And don't forget the players these clubs  sell when relegated.eg Nathan Ake £50 million.

[Davefevs]

 

@And Its Smith - I included AFCB too

Heres the ten most direct teams in the Champ, most direct WBA, going up to Barnsley, sorted by the 4th column…10+ pass sequences. Only Brum and Blackburn of the other 9 to play in the first half of the season!!!

P7 W2 D2 L3 Pts 8

Ultimately we aren’t a good side, but enough bits of quality to get results.  We do need to improve though, we should improve.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Davefevs

[cheese]

14 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Was always impressed and surprised with Tony Blair, keeping it up with Kevin Keegan. Can't see Michael Foot/Ed Milliebland/Jezza Coyrbn managing more than one .... 

Oooerrr Matron...

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

4 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

 

I hope you're right, but going in a goal up at half time I would have hoped to see more 2nd half. 

They are as bad as any team I've seen for a while, and we created very little. Rarely controlled the game and struggled to keep the ball, again . The win was imprtant, but still very worried about performance.

Easy cop out ? 
Someone getting relegated would have had,
£100m for the year in the Prem.
£40m  First year back in Championship
£30m  2nd Year
£20m  3rd. 

Not sure the figures are current, but they are fairly recent. At the same time the others get £4.5m solidarity payment.  So £13.5m Vs £90m in the same period. Add the problems from the lack of fans money due to COVID and it skews it even more. It allows teams to keep Prem squads together, while the likes of teams like us have to build at a disadvantage. 

An extreme example , 3 different teams relegated each year could mean 9 teams getting that advantage by year 3, a third of the division. It makes a difference.
Look at it another way. Norwich go up pocket £100m, come down pocket £40m , go up £100m , come down (it looks likely) another £40m next year. So those 2 years in the Championship (last years promotion year & Next year) they would be given £80m against our £9m. It's why teams yoyo

If that's the case then surely SL should be pulling out all the stops to get us into the Prem as soon as possible, or is he waiting until we get another rich backer to help him do so?     Just a thought.   I think teams yoyo because they are to good for the Championship, but not good enough for the Prem, still it's a real fact that these parachute payments help these teams keep their best players and therefore help them maintain the yoyo situation. I do think it's not fair on the other teams in the league, parachute payments should only be handed out when relegated for the first year and stopped after that, if only,  just to make sure that the club doesn't get into financial difficulties due to contractual obligations.