Isn’t Kasey too good to leave out in the cold ….

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

Maybe Milwall would take him in January, then he could link up with Benik Afobe again. That was his best spell before Afobe got injured.

Lots of talk of him playing as no10, but his best spell was actually in a midfield 3 (352) with Brownhill and Massengo when he first signed permanently. He did his shift defensively, but as you say had two forwards with movement, intelligent movement, Afobe and Weimann.

It didn’t last long, as LJ changed it, Afobe got injured, etc. Who knows, it might’ve been a fluke sequence of games, but he is capable…but at this point in his career it is about him taking responsibility for it. 

[marmite]

6 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

Maybe Milwall would take him in January, then he could link up with Benik Afobe again. That was his best spell before Afobe got injured.

Or maybe we should get Afobe back here! Palmer has had chances here but not a great run of games to instill himself in the team. One poor performance and he's out. Others have had more chances even when under performing.

[Oh Louie louie]

I think he will probaly do a jet,

By that i mean, be lucky to play 10 games again at this level.

Then, if hes lucky, a third rate team in scotland might take a punt on him.

Hes had too many chances, like others have said.

[Rossi the Robin]

13 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

 

Mixed messages from NP, or just a kick up the arse for Kasey - slack off in training and your toast.

He's a very talented footballer and still young, he'll come good either here or elsewhere.

In L1 or below, possibly 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

11 minutes ago, marmite said:

Or maybe we should get Afobe back here! Palmer has had chances here but not a great run of games to instill himself in the team. One poor performance and he's out. Others have had more chances even when under performing.

Palmer needs someone to show some faith in him.  He needs a run in the side and he needs players around him to get used to what he does and to make the runs that suit his passing ability.  When he plays there is often so little movement around him that you can see that his ability is stifled.  Personally I think the sign of a good manager is the ability to incorporate players of Palmer’s ability, but many managers seem unable to fit them in.  He has to be given freedom, but he has to have players around him that suit.  I believe he could be a very good player at the level he presently is, or higher, if given a chance (I don’t buy the comparisons with JET who never seemed fully committed to football, and had fitness issues).  Palmer is at least a Championship player and as marmite says, the likes of Afobe can bring the best out of him.  Sadly, he ain’t going to be a pair for Martin.

1 minute ago, Rossi the Robin said:

In L1 or below, possibly 

Absolutely not.

[Robbored]

48 minutes ago, The Bard said:

He's not fit to lace JET's boots.  Strip away the "Chelsea" veneer and he isn't all that. JET produced and literally won games singlehandedly.

 

Palmer has skill but is ineffectual having the really bad habit of giving the ball away in dangerous positions.  

It was their attitude thats a similarity between the two - no doubt at all that JETs skill range was far greater than KPs but that wasn’t the point I was making.

[The Bard]

14 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It was their attitude thats a similarity between the two - no doubt at all that JETs skill range was far greater than KPs but that wasn’t the point I was making.

I see little similarity in attitude and I wonder why anyone does?

JET by his nature was hit and miss. Off days and on.   You accepted the misses because you knew you'd get the hits.

 

Palmer has Chelseaitis or whatever the scouts call it.  Seems very nice, almost too nice but needs to actually impose himself on games. 

[Roger Red Hat]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

but at this point in his career it is about him taking responsibility for it. 

Spot on. I think Palmer really likes the idea of being a pro footballer, but cannot apply himself consistently to actually BE one. Its interesting that before we actually signed him permanently we had to wait for Lampard to have a look at him and decide if he wanted him at Chelsea along with other young players. He didn't and we got him.

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Its interesting that before we actually signed him permanently we had to wait for Lampard to have a look at him and decide if he wanted him at Chelsea along with other young players. He didn't and we got him.

And at that point MA should’ve been negotiating down the price and wages, even if Chelsea had to continue contributing.  

[KegCity]

I really like Palmer and think he's a quality player. We're struggling to create anything and it seems sensible to give him a proper run in the side at some point. Thought he looked good against Fulham and obviously got his goal.

But, the same criticisms I and others levy at COD apply to Palmer too. He's had a lot of opportunities, under multiple managers, to settle and hasn't. The common denominator is KP. I do think there's more to Palmer than COD mind, COD is consistently anonymous whereas Palmer might turn a game on its head or might reduce us to ten men. Pearson's comments on Saturday also suggest he's not pulling his weight in training, which if is the case then he doesn't deserve a sniff of minutes.

[KegCity]

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

 

JET by his nature was hit and miss. Off days and on.   You accepted the misses because you knew you'd get the hits.

 

You can say the same about Palmer, I'm a fan of both players but neither were/are consistent. What Palmer lacks in long range screamers he makes up for in good forward passing to break the lines of a defence. Nobody else in the squad has the ability to thread passes like Palmer, but his inconsistency holds him back massively. It's up to Pearson whether he wants to take the rough with the smooth.

[Monkeh]

16 hours ago, Denbury Red said:

The short piece in Robins Live - just received by email, and the video footage of Kasey’s goal against Birmingham shown again today makes me wonder if we are missing a trick!

Could and perhaps should he be tried further up the pitch?

He can certainly finish (as seen in the Birmingham video), he has more strength than some of our other options, and whilst the teenagers seem to be getting the nod for the midfield positions, with Nakhi unable to hit a barn door at times - perhaps Kasey should be given a try up front?

He’s still young and I’m not sure he’s found his best position!

No he isn't good enough and no where near being close to good enough,

He's never been a starter anywhere he's been, us huddlesfield blackburn Swansea 

He's a waste of money and a passenger in a game 90% of the time, we are not good enough to carry that sort of player

[And Its Smith]

3 hours ago, The Bard said:

He's not fit to lace JET's boots.  Strip away the "Chelsea" veneer and he isn't all that. JET produced and literally won games singlehandedly.

 

Palmer has skill but is ineffectual having the really bad habit of giving the ball away in dangerous positions.  

Palmer would produce in league one as well I reckon 

[REDOXO]

16 hours ago, Redpool said:

Kasey is done in my view. Had so many chances and hasn’t taken them. Another one to get off the wage bill.

Unfortunately he has been awful since Afobi got injured. He reminds me of a dreadlocked Tony Dinning that’s blocking the path of one of our kids, who would be equally useful as a bench sitter. For the love of god I just got a vision of Engval. LJ did buy some shite. 

[Monkeh]

13 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Yes I can agree with that. But I really feel Wells is a 20 goal striker and we are wasting that. Play him central forward with a supply line. And I am sure Palmer could do that.

Just my opinion of course

Tin hat on 

Wells has only scored 20 goals in a season once......fir Bradford.....in league 2

He isnt a 20 goal a season striker and never will be at this level, if anything he'd be the first out of the door before palmer 

[Clutton Caveman]

16 hours ago, petehinton said:

But then also said a few weeks ago he was training well, and loved his attitude for asking to play in the u23s, got his cameo & goal against Fulham as a result iirc. All sounds ominous. Wouldn’t surprise me if injured 

Classic case of bags of talent bad attitude, unfortunately a product of the system where kids grow up in a bubble of entitlement. Plenty of first team regulars would kill for some of his skills but few managers seem to trust him.

[downendcity]

Palmer has all the attributes to be the player we all long for - good on the ball, able to beat defenders, make telling passes and provide the creative spark that all too often we seem to lack. As a result I think that many have been prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that successive managers will give him the chance to show his worth, that feeling being reinforced by the glimpse we saw soon after his signing playing behind Afobe.

I think he is now at a watershed, as he is now well past his second chance. It also seems pretty clear that Pearson is laying down the minimum requirements for the players that want to feature in the first team. Iin particular effort and application, not just skill, ability and potential. If suggestions that KP is not training well are true, then I find that inexcusable, as I would have thought training properly to be a minimum requirement of any professional footballer, let alone one at championship level earning in the region of £20k per week.

He is a player I’ve so much wanted to succeed, but unless he is prepared to take his own game by the scruff of the neck I can see him getting off Pearson’s bus at the next stop.

 

 

[marmite]

Kasey is that old enigma where if he was playing against us we would say "wow  he's just what we need ".  Trouble is,  as has been stated on here, we don't play a style that would suit him.  We play long ball to Martin rather than play through midfield with runners up top , which would suit Palmers game more. I think we change our game to suit his style, which I would prefer to watch anyway , or we let him go. My money's on the latter.

[Clutton Caveman]

9 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

Maybe Milwall would take him in January, then he could link up with Benik Afobe again. That was his best spell before Afobe got injured.

I just thought about the options for NP. If you consider all of our higher earners, which ones do you think would attract a bid in January if they were available at a realistic price? Remember he has to sell before he buys

For me Kalas, Bentley, possibly Massengo

That leaves the likes of Wells, Palmer, O'Dowd, Baker, Martin and Weimann basically here until their contract runs out.

Our kids look just that, kids. Perhaps able to contribute here or there but far from stepping up and improving the team.

Not really a great picture is it? Perhaps having lost 2 coaches and the Director of the academy we may have a little bit of wriggle room for a January loan. 

Having had a chance to look at the situation last season I think NP only joined us because we were the only offer on the table, so does that mean that we not only have a bunch of players that nobody else wants and a coach in the same category.

Just a thought. Well done SL.

[Taylor10]

4 hours ago, The Bard said:

He's not fit to lace JET's boots.  Strip away the "Chelsea" veneer and he isn't all that. JET produced and literally won games singlehandedly.

 

Palmer has skill but is ineffectual having the really bad habit of giving the ball away in dangerous positions.  

You have taken the words right out my mouth here fella.

I get the comparisons with JET but KP isn’t fit to lace JET’s boots. I used to love watching him. What a player. I can’t imagine KP would ever contribute to so many goals or assists even if he dropped down a league.

[Carey 6]

I think he’s played something like 35 games worth of minutes for us & scored 6 assisted 7 in that time. Not the worst record.

NP obviously likes a target man type up front & I’m not sure that sort of player & KP go together. 

I wouldn’t completely write him off, but  I wouldn’t be too disappointed if he went.

I think he’ll definitely find a side at this level if/when he does leave. 

 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, marmite said:

Kasey is that old enigma where if he was playing against us we would say "wow  he's just what we need ".  Trouble is,  as has been stated on here, we don't play a style that would suit him.  We play long ball to Martin rather than play through midfield with runners up top , which would suit Palmers game more. I think we change our game to suit his style, which I would prefer to watch anyway , or we let him go. My money's on the latter.

Funnily enough I remember him for Blackburn against us & thought the complete opposite.

Unfortunately LJ & Ashton didn’t & despite a pretty mediocre loan spell we still signed him.

We will really struggle to offload him before his contract expires.

[Taylor10]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Funnily enough I remember him for Blackburn against us & thought the complete opposite.

Unfortunately LJ & Ashton didn’t & despite a pretty mediocre loan spell we still signed him.

We will really struggle to offload him before his contract expires.

My guess would be even if we can offload him, it would probably mean he goes without a fee & we still end up paying a percentage of his wages.

[MJP3]

People overlook the fact that we have a good looking guy to model our merchandise.

Worth it surely?

 

[Swede]

Well I actually have faith in him. I think he's a terrific player on his day. Yes, he can seem lazy at times but in general the whole team as a unit hasn't been playing well for a while.

Zak Vyner is another one.  

It is up to Nige to get the best out of him. 

[Roger Red Hat]

14 minutes ago, Swede said:

It is up to Nige to get the best out of him. 

Its up to Kasey. There's only 10 outfield positions and Kasey doesn't deserve to have one of them over players that want it more.

[Yellow&Blue&Red]

2 hours ago, marmite said:

Trouble is,  as has been stated on here, we don't play a style that would suit him.  We play long ball to Martin rather than play through midfield with runners up top , which would suit Palmers game more. I think we change our game to suit his style, which I would prefer to watch anyway , or we let him go. My money's on the latter.

I thought we did try to play more this way on Saturday. Wells was playing on the shoulder and got lots of off-side calls against him. And both our goals came from balls played through from midfield.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Classic case of bags of talent bad attitude, unfortunately a product of the system where kids grow up in a bubble of entitlement. Plenty of first team regulars would kill for some of his skills but few managers seem to trust him.

Out of interest do we actually know he has a bad attitude?  Agree on the bubble stuff.

Having met the guy, he’s quite quiet, young in attitude (you might say a bit immature) and certainly not brash, arrogant or anything like that.  He worked really hard in the summer he first joined permanently to get fit, using Jamie Lawrence’s gym (a bit like Back2Action).  Nige said he worked hard this summer too.

1 hour ago, Taylor10 said:

You have taken the words right out my mouth here fella.

I get the comparisons with JET but KP isn’t fit to lace JET’s boots. I used to love watching him. What a player. I can’t imagine KP would ever contribute to so many goals or assists even if he dropped down a league.

That is of course your view.

Playing Devil’s “data” advocate:

JET at Champ.

19 goals / 14 assists in the equivalent of 75 full 90s.

Kasey:

14 goals / 11 assists in 66 full 90s.

JET shades it but not by much.

I think “lacing boots” is slightly through League One tinted glasses…..but that’s my opinion only.

[marmite]

3 minutes ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

I thought we did try to play more this way on Saturday. Wells was playing on the shoulder and got lots of off-side calls against him. And both our goals came from balls played through from midfield.

If we are going to play through midfield, (someone had better tell Bentley), then it might suit Kasey. 

[Riaz]

I dont have an issue with KP's attitude. I just think the game is way too quick for him and his lackadaisical style.

Would do well in league one or abroad where the game is slower.

[KegCity]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think “lacing boots” is slightly through League One tinted glasses…..but that’s my opinion only.

Definitely. It was much easier for JET to stand out in League One because his technique was genuinely at least one league above everyone else on the pitch, which covered for the holes in his game. In the championship the skill gap narrowed and suddenly his lack of mobility and work rate caught up with him more. I'd certainly rather have JET in League One, but in the championship I think Palmer is more effective.

[Yellow&Blue&Red]

It's disappointing that KP hasn't realised his full potential. But he can be exciting and creative and if we're committed to paying millions for him over the coming years, we ought to be doing all we can to help him reach his potential.

I'd rather watch him giving it a go - and hopefully settling into some form - than watch Chris Martin lumbering about ineffectively. 

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

It's disappointing that KP hasn't realised his full potential. But he can be exciting and creative and if we're committed to paying millions for him over the coming years, we ought to be doing all we can to help him reach his potential.

I'd rather watch him giving it a go - and hopefully settling into some form - than watch Chris Martin lumbering about ineffectively. 

This Martin stuff makes me laugh.

I don’t agree with our tactic of him starting every game but that’s hardly his fault, it’s on Nige & not replacing Famara.

I suppose his assist for the winner on Saturday was “lumbering about ineffectively”?

The late winner at Peterborough? The goals in the wins at QPR & Reading? 
The goal line clearance on Saturday? The goal that should have got us 3 points on the opening day?

This season his contribution dwarfs anything Palmer has done in the entire time since he signed for us.

[Riaz]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

This Martin stuff makes me laugh.

I don’t agree with our tactic of him starting every game but that’s hardly his fault, it’s on Nige & not replacing Famara.

I suppose his assist for the winner on Saturday was “lumbering about ineffectively”?

The late winner at Peterborough? The goals in the wins at QPR & Reading? 
The goal line clearance on Saturday? The goal that should have got us 3 points on the opening day?

This season his contribution dwarfs anything Palmer has done in the entire time since he signed for us.

Agree 100%

He's been very good in a number of games.

He should'nt have played in a few games - like Bournemouth where the game was too quick for him. But as you say, its not his fault he is selected.

In the right team with right tactics, playing to his strengths, he's very effective.

[Yellow&Blue&Red]

6 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I suppose his assist for the winner on Saturday was “lumbering about ineffectively”?

The late winner at Peterborough? The goals in the wins at QPR & Reading? 
The goal line clearance on Saturday? The goal that should have got us 3 points on the opening day?

Chris Martin has played every game this season and you've mentioned ALL of his highlights in 3 short lines. Nearly all - he's got a second assist which I can't remember. Given he's played as a target man, who has the job of holding it up or knocking it down to set up the other strikers, the assist numbers are more disapointing than his goals. 

But my post wasn't really about his contribution, it was about who I'd prefer to watch. And I'd prefer to watch Palmer.

I keep reading here that the best we can hope for this year is mid table mediocrity but I've paid for entertainment and Palmer for all the frustration he brings, has a better chance of providing that. And a higher ceiling.

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Agree 100%

He's been very good in a number of games.

He should'nt have played in a few games - like Bournemouth where the game was too quick for him. But as you say, its not his fault he is selected.

In the right team with right tactics, playing to his strengths, he's very effective.

This

[Wrongagain]

Palmer is a highly paid fraud!

you only have to watch the pre match warm up! Contributes absolutely nothing and when they start practicing passing he is disruptive and breaks up the flow. 
Totally disinterested!

[sh1t_ref_again]

Like KP and think if we have a solid midfield behind him, he is the one who can pick a pass and open the door, unfortunately he starts dropping deep in games and tries to be to elaborate in the wrong part of the pitch and does not do enough at team defending.

Its all speculation about training, as fans we only get to see a tiny part of what happens at the club, maybe he has had crossed words with NP, maybe he sulks when not in the team, maybe he does not carry out NP's instructions when on the pitch, their are so many reasons why NP seems to have frozen him out and maybe making an example of him.

It seemed clear he did not want to come back from Swansea and heard a while back that he still lives there, so maybe NP's comments about people not wanting to be here are directed at KP

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by sh1t_ref_again
error

[Shuffle]

2 hours ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

It's disappointing that KP hasn't realised his full potential. But he can be exciting and creative and if we're committed to paying millions for him over the coming years, we ought to be doing all we can to help him reach his potential.

I'd rather watch him giving it a go - and hopefully settling into some form - than watch Chris Martin lumbering about ineffectively. 

Now if you’d have said KP having a go rather than watching Bakinson lumber around ineffectively then I’d 100% of been with you!! 

[Talk Of The Town]

I get the impression he’s not that assed about being a football player. I think he’ll be one that drops down the leagues. He’s more interested in becoming an instagrammer 

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, Bobby Bollax said:

I get the impression he’s not that assed about being a football player. I think he’ll be one that drops down the leagues. He’s more interested in becoming an instagrammer 

Why do you say he’s more interested in being an instagrammer if he’s only posted 7 times since July from what I can see. What do you know ?

[Taylor10]

On 02/11/2021 at 13:54, Davefevs said:

Out of interest do we actually know he has a bad attitude?  Agree on the bubble stuff.

Having met the guy, he’s quite quiet, young in attitude (you might say a bit immature) and certainly not brash, arrogant or anything like that.  He worked really hard in the summer he first joined permanently to get fit, using Jamie Lawrence’s gym (a bit like Back2Action).  Nige said he worked hard this summer too.

That is of course your view.

Playing Devil’s “data” advocate:

JET at Champ.

19 goals / 14 assists in the equivalent of 75 full 90s.

Kasey:

14 goals / 11 assists in 66 full 90s.

JET shades it but not by much.

I think “lacing boots” is slightly through League One tinted glasses…..but that’s my opinion only.

Interesting stats for both at champs @Davefevs

It is of course through L1 tinted glasses but also an opinion based on how both players have performed when I have watched them for us. Probably unfair on both given JET never played for us in the champ as KP hasn’t in L1.

However based on performances in a City shirt, for me, along with entertainment value KP is not fit to lace JET’s boots. I always found myself on the edge of my seat with JET. I find myself wanting to be with KP but it never materialises. KP at times gets some unfair stick and he still has age on his side, but for me, JET all day long.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Taylor10 said:

Interesting stats for both at champs @Davefevs

It is of course through L1 tinted glasses but also an opinion based on how both players have performed when I have watched them for us. Probably unfair on both given JET never played for us in the champ as KP hasn’t in L1.

However based on performances in a City shirt, for me, along with entertainment value KP is not fit to lace JET’s boots. I always found myself on the edge of my seat with JET. I find myself wanting to be with KP but it never materialises. KP at times gets some unfair stick and he still has age on his side, but for me, JET all day long.

Yep, I get that….I still get all nostalgic of Neville and Riley, and Walsh….but it’s tough to fairly compare to someone at Champ level.

JET got us off our seats, imho, because fitness / frame aside he was better than Lg1 level.  He coasted really.