Is this a relegation season?

[BS4 on Tour...]

26 minutes ago, woodsyred said:

I honestly think Coventry will beat us 3 or 4 nil 

That’s the spirit! Thank God you obviously weren’t around when we were following Terry’s heroes everywhere from 1983 - we reached rock bottom but we just trusted our manager and supported our team to the hilt - there was no sense of entitlement back then, we just backed our boys because they were wearing our shirt and they needed our help - the wailing these days when we lose a game in the 5th best division in Europe is just pitiful ... our modern fans wouldn’t have stayed the course when our club needed us the most back in the ‘80s ... I’m so grateful that I was able to witness those times and be part of a proper crowd of Bristol City supporters - home and away, we were proud to represent Bristol even though our team had limited abilities - but boy did they run their hearts out for our club, loved ‘em all ...

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Cant see us getting away with it year in year out same last year

I think this year may well be fine but next year would have to be better- otherwise in big trouble.

[Slack Bladder]

Well if we go down get Stevie Cotts back, that was one hell of a season.

[Red_Alligator]

23 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

That’s the spirit! Thank God you obviously weren’t around when we were following Terry’s heroes everywhere from 1983 - we reached rock bottom but we just trusted our manager and supported our team to the hilt - there was no sense of entitlement back then, we just backed our boys because they were wearing our shirt and they needed our help - the wailing these days when we lose a game in the 5th best division in Europe is just pitiful ... our modern fans wouldn’t have stayed the course when our club needed us the most back in the ‘80s ... I’m so grateful that I was able to witness those times and be part of a proper crowd of Bristol City supporters - home and away, we were proud to represent Bristol even though our team had limited abilities - but boy did they run their hearts out for our club, loved ‘em all ...

Well said BS4!!

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

A third of the season gone and we have 19 points from 16 games, 10 points off relegation and having beaten the teams below us that we’ve played. Over the course of the season, that would see us with 57 points. Given how poor the bottom few teams are, something like 48 will probably keep us up.

A relegation battle is surely on the cards, but it appears unlikely that we actually will succumb to the drop. A bit of bed wetting going on?

I will be disappointed if we end up in a relegation battle.  I think we are (?), will be better than that.

Undoubtedly, Nige has to do better on the playing front.

A re-build isn’t pretty is it.  But it’s better trying to do it in the Champ than League One.  I’m not lowering my expectations of this season….but we need to improve.

[pillred]

26 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

That’s the spirit! Thank God you obviously weren’t around when we were following Terry’s heroes everywhere from 1983 - we reached rock bottom but we just trusted our manager and supported our team to the hilt - there was no sense of entitlement back then, we just backed our boys because they were wearing our shirt and they needed our help - the wailing these days when we lose a game in the 5th best division in Europe is just pitiful ... our modern fans wouldn’t have stayed the course when our club needed us the most back in the ‘80s ... I’m so grateful that I was able to witness those times and be part of a proper crowd of Bristol City supporters - home and away, we were proud to represent Bristol even though our team had limited abilities - but boy did they run their hearts out for our club, loved ‘em all ...

Ran their hearts out for the club, there in a nutshell is the problem we have, lack of ability not being compensated by a team willing to run their hearts out, and until we can get somebody who can get the players themselves to realise that we are what we are and if FFP is to be adhered to then it's down to the coaches and management to get the best out of what we have plenty of other teams seem to be able to do it. 

[Waconda]

39 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

A third of the season gone and we have 19 points from 16 games, 10 points off relegation and having beaten the teams below us that we’ve played. Over the course of the season, that would see us with 57 points. Given how poor the bottom few teams are, something like 48 will probably keep us up.

A relegation battle is surely on the cards, but it appears unlikely that we actually will succumb to the drop. A bit of bed wetting going on?

In theory.

[YGBjammy]

It's a rebuild year, for a club that was in proper relegation form last season.

We've just had a summer with much reduced spending capacity, in fact the main thing we had to do was reduce the spending on wages.

As fevs said, I'd much rather do a rebuild as a weak team in the championship than as a strong/okay team in league one.

I think we'll stay up, but might be closer than we would have liked. Hopefully see some reinforcements in January; maybe some loans working those contacts of Nige's!

[Daniro]

9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

That’s the spirit! Thank God you obviously weren’t around when we were following Terry’s heroes everywhere from 1983 - we reached rock bottom but we just trusted our manager and supported our team to the hilt - there was no sense of entitlement back then, we just backed our boys because they were wearing our shirt and they needed our help - the wailing these days when we lose a game in the 5th best division in Europe is just pitiful ... our modern fans wouldn’t have stayed the course when our club needed us the most back in the ‘80s ... I’m so grateful that I was able to witness those times and be part of a proper crowd of Bristol City supporters - home and away, we were proud to represent Bristol even though our team had limited abilities - but boy did they run their hearts out for our club, loved ‘em all ...

And we didn't even have a high performance centre back then!

[LondonBristolian]

I don't think we'll go down - simply because I think there are some very poor teams who we have a head start on. But, as it stands, it is going to be very close. Fast improvements are needed. 

[Phileas Fogg]

It just feels like an incredibly Bristol City thing to happen that we get relegated and battle out for top 6 against Mark Ashton's Ipswich and Lee Johnson's Sunderland whilst Plymouth Argyle canter to automatic promotion.. we then miss out on the playoffs after a disappointing draw to a plucky Shrewsbury side managed by Steve Cotterill. Also, Rovers go up from League 2. 

[CiderJar]

11 hours ago, Buster said:

Lansdown has to go for me 

Why? What have you got to offer?

[Clutton Caveman]

11 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Enough of the Ashton Johnson Lansdown blame triangle.

I've been supporting City long enough to get the feel- and the feel is that we are fodder. NP has been a top manager in his day but his day has gone- just look at the stats.

Is it Nige's fault? Probably not but , imo, a different solution is needed sooner than later. It was much much better with Lee but that's not part of the NP messiah narrative.

We will go down unless SL/JL take financial and coaching action now.

Well I think we have played just about every combination our squad allows. It seems that the team spirit is dropping week by week as the squad start to lose faith in the plan. Many players are staying in the team by doing nothing wrong rather than doing something right. The manager has started openly criticising some players and I suspect behind closed doors some players are criticising the management. We have several players who are on high wages and are not delivering and the chances to move them on even for no fee seems remote.

I would like to think that NP spends a night on Glastonbury Tor and comes back reinvented to invigorate his failing team but guess what I think NP thinks he is fine as he is.

Will the January window save us? If we could find a Tanner type bargain for midfield winger and striker perhaps, but!! oh yes that was a pig flying past my window

So in answer to your question, does this seem like a relegation season. Yes.

[TonyTonyTony]

I dont reckon we will be in a serious relegation fight. The bottom 3 + Cardiff and P'boro look worse than us. Derby + Barnsley look like they are down already. I agree its piss poor right now, and last night was a real low point, but all the foreboding of doom isn't healthy. I doubt Pearson is going anywhere, and fantasies about expensive new signings in January are just wet dreams. Just knuckle down for a scrappy few winter months, and hope NP finds a formula that starts to work. 

[Tomo]

https://thefishy.co.uk/formtable.php?table=2

[bcfc ry]

There’s no making excuses for this squad anymore. From front to back utterly appalling. 0 creativity, 0 pace and worst of all 0 talent. Chris Martin would make a bigger impact sat at home in his lounge. Yes we best Barnsley but can we really be proud of that performance, we were absolutely embarrassing and beat the only team worse than us in the league.  This is not an over reaction it is real talk. We WILL be relegated if we do not spend big in January and replace Pearson. 
 

We are so tactically off its unbelievable, how anyone can sit and defend Pearson or this squad is beyond me. I don’t want to be negative but right now we have no choice to save our club from travelling to Accrington and Stanley on a Tuesday evening!

[MattWSM]

Form under Nigel since joining is about (and still is with current):

Win qtr Draw qtr and Lose half.

We have 19 pts so far  with 30 games left.

W7, D8, L15 (from 30 games)

Total 48 pts.

I see 52 pts as the line, so need a slight improvement in form to survive, just...

W8, D9, L13.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by MattWSM
typo

[underhanded]

Thanks Mr P, Fevs etc. for continued insight into FFP. 

Last night was woeful, not only is the squad lacking in quality, but it is evidently far too light. With injuries as they are, and with some players evidently not trusted by Nige, the lack of options off the bench was scary really. For all the talk of the ineffectiveness of loan options, Nige has to try and get at least 2 in January - it might be a bit punty, but needs must I think. We lack in a lot of areas currently, but one thing that I believe can be easier to find in young loan players is pace, and it is something we seem to lack in spades. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by underhanded

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, YGBjammy said:

It's a rebuild year, for a club that was in proper relegation form last season.

We've just had a summer with much reduced spending capacity, in fact the main thing we had to do was reduce the spending on wages.

As fevs said, I'd much rather do a rebuild as a weak team in the championship than as a strong/okay team in league one.

I think we'll stay up, but might be closer than we would have liked. Hopefully see some reinforcements in January; maybe some loans working those contacts of Nige's!

That’s my view of the latest trend.  But I’m not panicking.  Get through Saturday, two week break.  Semenyo, Williams, Conway back hopefully, Baker this weekend hopefully.  A few players rested up.

[HappyClapper]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

https://thefishy.co.uk/formtable.php?table=2

I was expecting the worst when I clicked on that link. We are on a terrible run yet Cardiff, Peterborough, Barnsley still below us. Derby one point better over 6 games but 14 points behind with a further deduction likely. Extrapolate that over the last 30 games and we’re fine.

Think we’ll be a different proposition with Baker, Williams and Semenyo available.

Hold your nerve!!

[TonyTonyTony]

1 minute ago, HappyClapper said:

Think we’ll be a different proposition with Baker, Williams and Semenyo available.

Williams is the key for me. Gotta find a way to keep him fit. Baker is Mr reliable and Semenyo (hopefully) a bit of a secret weapon

 

[Grey Fox]

Quite simply the current squad are not Championship standard, especially in midfield, Our only hope of staying up is for Williams to actually remain fit for  more than ten minutes and bring in at least two quality midfielders and replacement experienced full backs In January.

If we don,t, League One next season.

[cidered abroad]

We cannot rely on Williams suddenly becoming fit enough to play 90% of the time.

Semenyo is still unproven as a striker or provider. James and King are experienced but don't impose themselves on the opposition.

I respect Martin's record at this level but every game he plays, his influence diminishes.

We are fortunate to be ten points away from the drop zone but it's still too early in the season to rely on that for our safety.

Recruitment in January will decide whether we stay up or not.

[Kingswood Robin]

It may come down to what magic the medical team can weave. I don't think we have mid table strength in depth, and we're too close to that dashed line, too early. Yes some players will come back from injury, but then we'll lose some to injury over the winter. If this form carries on, the pressure will become so great I can see something breaking around February time. Maybe a fresh face will get us a few wins to stay above the line. It's not like we haven't seen that pattern before. 

I would much rather have seen a top manager and money to spend at the same time. Maybe one day we'll get it right.

[Shaun Taylor]

Looking in from the outside I would say your a long way off from being relegation fodder but things change so quick in football and lose a couple more on the trot and the rot could easily set in.

i do wonder why nobody else wanted Pearson when he was out of work as he hasn't been without his controversy over the years even though he had succeeded periods. Maybe his old style management has run its course and you need a younger manager with different ideas but also one who has shown progression throughout his career.

I can't believe you've lacked funds in the transfer windows but I would question who is choosing the payers you sign plus the ones that have been there a while as they also have to take the blame

Clearly things aren't right behind the scenes as Pearson wouldn't have got rid of his backroom staff if they were all rosey.

To me you're going backwards even compared to when Johnson was in charge as he had you in and around the play offs and gave you a great cup run.

Big decisions for Lansdown if things don't turn around soon as he will be aware the natives are becoming restless.

 

 

[Ska Junkie]

2 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

I can't believe you've lacked funds in the transfer windows 

This is the great anomaly / frustration in that we probably do have funds available, courtesy of Mr Lansdown, but we cannot spend anything of note due to FFP, even if he made those funds available.

Extremely frustrating but it's where we are after too much spent on players / wages over the last few years.

[ray savino]

3 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

xtremely frustrating but it's where we are after too much spent on players / wages over the last few years.

wasted?

[The Bard]

We're 10 points clear of Hull Barnsley and Derby. Just beaten 1 of them with Derby 14 points behind with a further points deduction likely.

It doesn't look likely. It does look disappointing though.

[The Bard]

16 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Looking in from the outside I would say your a long way off from being relegation fodder but things change so quick in football and lose a couple more on the trot and the rot could easily set in.

i do wonder why nobody else wanted Pearson when he was out of work as he hasn't been without his controversy over the years even though he had succeeded periods. Maybe his old style management has run its course and you need a younger manager with different ideas but also one who has shown progression throughout his career.

I can't believe you've lacked funds in the transfer windows but I would question who is choosing the payers you sign plus the ones that have been there a while as they also have to take the blame

Clearly things aren't right behind the scenes as Pearson wouldn't have got rid of his backroom staff if they were all rosey.

To me you're going backwards even compared to when Johnson was in charge as he had you in and around the play offs and gave you a great cup run.

Big decisions for Lansdown if things don't turn around soon as he will be aware the natives are becoming restless.

 

 

These sort of posts irritate me as the clear impact of rules around finance are dismissed as being made up.

 

By a Swindon fan!

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, The Bard said:

We're 10 points clear of Hull Barnsley and Derby. Just beaten 1 of them with Derby 14 points behind with a further points deduction likely.

It doesn't look likely. It does look disappointing though.

Barnsley at home to Derby tonight

Cardiff at home to QPR

West Brom at home to Hull

 

[Shaun Taylor]

6 minutes ago, The Bard said:

These sort of posts irritate me as the clear impact of rules around finance are dismissed as being made up.

 

By a Swindon fan!

Why does the post irritate you am I not aloud an opinion looking in from the outside?

[WessexPest]

Is this a bad time to mention I got my Johnson & Johnson booster yesterday?

[MarcusX]

15 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Enough of the Ashton Johnson Lansdown blame triangle.

I've been supporting City long enough to get the feel- and the feel is that we are fodder. NP has been a top manager in his day but his day has gone- just look at the stats.

Is it Nige's fault? Probably not but , imo, a different solution is needed sooner than later. It was much much better with Lee but that's not part of the NP messiah narrative.

We will go down unless SL/JL take financial and coaching action now.

At this moment in time? Yes, it's 100% a relegation season IMO.

Very little quality in depth, just look at our bench last night.

Flogging our half decent players to the point of injury - Massengo, James, Martin (was once a half decent player!) - King, Williams, Baker already out

We now go into Saturday with a scarily weak looking team, not just in experience but in presence and ability.

What's most worrying about last night is even the fight appeared to be gone. Heads dropped and people stopped running.

I'm not Pearson out, because I don't think anyone else will get anything out of these players. We can only hope for some incoming players in January IMO

[ExiledAjax]

So I've said a few times over the past few seasons that xG gives a decent indication of where we might be heading. It's yet to let me down significantly, although last season's bumper first ten games gave us enough of a cushion that we never fully caught up - pointswise at least - with the indication.

Well right now if I look at the data that hasn't failed me for 5 seasons...we are right down in the relegation mix in most tables I see. Bottom three in some, others have us 18th or 19th.

So, on that basis we still have time. It's not a dead cert right now, with a little luck, a little more nous, and a big effort from everyone, we can pull clear and finish one or to places safe. 

It's what I expected tbh, a tricky season, a dip into the bottom three at some point, but ultimately just having enough to get 50 - 55 points and landing 17th - 19th.

Derby's points deduction is one hell of a boon for us as well it has to be said.

[Waconda]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

So I've said a few times over the past few seasons that xG gives a decent indication of where we might be heading. It's yet to let me down significantly, although last season's bumper first ten games gave us enough of a cushion that we never fully caught up - pointswise at least - with the indication.

Well right now if I look at the data that hasn't failed me for 5 seasons...we are right down in the relegation mix in most tables I see. Bottom three in some, others have us 18th or 19th.

So, on that basis we still have time. It's not a dead cert right now, with a little luck, a little more nous, and a big effort from everyone, we can pull clear and finish one or to places safe. 

It's what I expected tbh, a tricky season, a dip into the bottom three at some point, but ultimately just having enough to get 50 - 55 points and landing 17th - 19th.

Derby's points deduction is one hell of a boon for us as well it has to be said.

Very optimistic outlook. Hope you are right.

My fear is that we are regressing as a team and that the players look totally bereft of confidence, belief or organisation. 

Can't suddenly pull out of a "tail spin" like that.

[The Bard]

23 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Why does the post irritate you am I not aloud an opinion looking in from the outside?

 I said your post irritated me. I didn't say you weren't allowed an opinion.

[Shaun Taylor]

8 minutes ago, The Bard said:

 I said your post irritated me. I didn't say you weren't allowed an opinion.

Fair point, just trying to give an alternative opinion not trying to rile anyone.

[Kid in the Riot]

50 minutes ago, The Bard said:

We're 10 points clear of Hull Barnsley and Derby. Just beaten 1 of them with Derby 14 points behind with a further points deduction likely.

It doesn't look likely. It does look disappointing though.

I agree, all these claims of "we're in a relegation scrap" are way too premature right now. 

However, I suspect the reason some are anticipating one is due to the fact that for the past three seasons we have started well/ok, and steadily got worse as the season goes on. 

If that reoccurs this season, then given our points tally to date, we could yet find ourselves in a scrap.

If we contrive to finish below the likes of Barnsley and Derby though, then rest assured we'll have fully deserved to have gone down. 

[Bris Red]

21 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

So I've said a few times over the past few seasons that xG gives a decent indication of where we might be heading. It's yet to let me down significantly, although last season's bumper first ten games gave us enough of a cushion that we never fully caught up - pointswise at least - with the indication.

Well right now if I look at the data that hasn't failed me for 5 seasons...we are right down in the relegation mix in most tables I see. Bottom three in some, others have us 18th or 19th.

So, on that basis we still have time. It's not a dead cert right now, with a little luck, a little more nous, and a big effort from everyone, we can pull clear and finish one or to places safe. 

It's what I expected tbh, a tricky season, a dip into the bottom three at some point, but ultimately just having enough to get 50 - 55 points and landing 17th - 19th.

Derby's points deduction is one hell of a boon for us as well it has to be said.

I like your optimism and i hope your right.

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Very optimistic outlook. Hope you are right.

My fear is that we are regressing as a team and that the players look totally bereft of confidence, belief or organisation. 

Can't suddenly pull out of a "tail spin" like that.

Regressing from what though? From where we were when NP took over? I don't think so. We're fractionally better in terms of output than we were then. We're taking more shots, more on target, scoring more, conceding fewer etc. We're not brilliant, and it started from a very low place, but we're better than we were.

Have we regressed from where we were after 6 games this season, perhaps yes, but in my opinion there is still time to get back closer to that early season stuff if we make a few changes and get one or two back to their fitness or full potential. Doing that would hopefully reconstruct the confidence, belief and organisation that you rightly point out is missing.

There's no doubt we are in trouble, but it remains possible to get out of it with what we currently have.

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Regressing from what though? From where we were when NP took over? I don't think so. We're fractionally better in terms of output than we were then. We're taking more shots, more on target, scoring more, conceding fewer etc. We're not brilliant, and it started from a very low place, but we're better than we were.

Have we regressed from where we were after 6 games this season, perhaps yes, but in my opinion there is still time to get back closer to that early season stuff if we make a few changes and get one or two back to their fitness or full potential. Doing that would hopefully reconstruct the confidence, belief and organisation that you rightly point out is missing.

There's no doubt we are in trouble, but it remains possible to get out of it with what we currently have.

You may well be right, I'm not convinced but as you say get Williams, Baker and Semenyo in the team and they should improve us to the level of staying up,

in theory anyway.

 

[BTRFTG]

16 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Enough of the Ashton Johnson Lansdown blame triangle.

We may well get relegated (though I think we'll just survive,) but our predicament falls squarely at the feet of those mentioned. To discuss our failings without reference to them is meaningless.

Lansdown fault extends only as far as it's his money that's been flushed down the pan. He shouldn't have listened to Johnson & Ashton and should have better questioned their motives, but it is they and they alone who've brought this club low.

[Swede]

17 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Fair point, just trying to give an alternative opinion not trying to rile anyone.

Keep posting ST, you're very welcome on here [you'd be banned on slagchat as being "one of them gurt teds"]

[ExiledAjax]

9 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

You may well be right, I'm not convinced but as you say get Williams, Baker and Semenyo in the team and they should improve us to the level of staying up,

in theory anyway.

 

Yep, it is just a theory.

Equally possible is that Weimann gets crocked next week, Bentley gets Covid, and we're utterly buggered.

I'm just saying, I'm not writing us off just yet.

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yep, it is just a theory.

Equally possible is that Weimann gets crocked next week, Bentley gets Covid, and we're utterly buggered.

I'm just saying, I'm not writing us off just yet.

Fair enough.

[lenred]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Barnsley at home to Derby tonight

Cardiff at home to QPR

West Brom at home to Hull

 

Can’t believe we are having to look at results already but it was always going to be a bumpy ride this season.  Think we have enough because of others deficiencies but fear it could be closer than is comfortable. Just need to get through it by hook or by crook. 

[Shaun Taylor]

9 minutes ago, Swede said:

Keep posting ST, you're very welcome on here [you'd be banned on slagchat as being "one of them gurt teds"]

Cheers Swede, including yourself there's some decent posters on here who have been more than welcoming over the years. 

I do follow your club closely and wish you well but I'm also mypthed why you can't get it right on them pitch considering everyting is in place to be successful.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

20 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

We may well get relegated (though I think we'll just survive,) but our predicament falls squarely at the feet of those mentioned. To discuss our failings without reference to them is meaningless.

Lansdown fault extends only as far as it's his money that's been flushed down the pan. He shouldn't have listened to Johnson & Ashton and should have better questioned their motives, but it is they and they alone who've brought this club low.

I just dont agree. Surely if LJ is to blame then so is Holden and our recently sacked coaching team? Why is NP seemingly unable to motivate our players to put in a really good shift- win,lose or draw? We have a squad capable of better and that is up to the highly experienced manager. The record since he's taken over speaks for itself- the changes he makes during a match also points to an individual running out of ideas- imo. The OP was not about blame but the real possibility of relegation which never seemed likely under LJ despite the awful streaky nature of his tenure. 

[HappyClapper]

21 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Cheers Swede, including yourself there's some decent posters on here who have been more than welcoming over the years. 

I do follow your club closely and wish you well but I'm also mypthed why you can't get it right on them pitch considering everyting is in place to be successful.

Very welcome as far as I’m concerned although you could try explaining some of your Swindon slang.

[Shaun Taylor]

1 minute ago, HappyClapper said:

Very welcome as far as I’m concerned although you could try explaining some of your Swindon slang.

I blame it on my iPad whenever I mess up "miffed"

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

A third of the season gone and we have 19 points from 16 games, 10 points off relegation and having beaten the teams below us that we’ve played. Over the course of the season, that would see us with 57 points. Given how poor the bottom few teams are, something like 48 will probably keep us up.

A relegation battle is surely on the cards, but it appears unlikely that we actually will succumb to the drop. A bit of bed wetting going on?

Agreed. Unsure we go down.

Hull, they have plenty of headroom for theoretical spending but the owner and fans hate each other, he's been cost cutting for years. Clawing back loans too.

Barnsley, they might improve now but losing Ismael, Mowatt, Murphy knocked the stuffing out of them a bit? Not just as individuals but the whole narrative...a great high pressing non stop running top 6 season, ending Brentford's long long unbeaten run in the runup.

Those 3 stay and rich owners and a strong financial position can see them kick on. Marcondes on a free? Sure why not! What a midfield that could be, Mowatt Marcondes or Mowatt, A N Other with Marcondes as the '1' in front but they were linked when they had those key personnel.

Peterborough, seem like they could be strong at home but inept or overpowered on the road.

Cardiff, surely bottomed out?

Preston, Seem okay at home albeit a lot of draws. Think they have a squad that probably should be doing better, inexperienced manager an issue?

That's to say nothing about the two points deduction sides.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Regressing from what though? From where we were when NP took over? I don't think so. We're fractionally better in terms of output than we were then. We're taking more shots, more on target, scoring more, conceding fewer etc. We're not brilliant, and it started from a very low place, but we're better than we were.

Have we regressed from where we were after 6 games this season, perhaps yes, but in my opinion there is still time to get back closer to that early season stuff if we make a few changes and get one or two back to their fitness or full potential. Doing that would hopefully reconstruct the confidence, belief and organisation that you rightly point out is missing.

There's no doubt we are in trouble, but it remains possible to get out of it with what we currently have.

Correct….you are the unofficial auditor of my data and have been tracking your own for some time.

59 minutes ago, lenred said:

Can’t believe we are having to look at results already but it was always going to be a bumpy ride this season.  Think we have enough because of others deficiencies but fear it could be closer than is comfortable. Just need to get through it by hook or by crook. 

I’m not, not when we are 10 points clear against a team in 22nd who are getting 0.6ppg.

I know Derby are getting 1.13, but when they get their additional 9, can’t buy anyone I’m not worried either!

just saying interesting fixtures tonight

[lenred]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I’m not, not when we are 10 points clear against a team in 22nd who are getting 0.6ppg.

I know Derby are getting 1.13, but when they get their additional 9, can’t buy anyone I’m not worried either!

just saying interesting fixtures tonight

You may not be but I am

[Clevedon Red]

3 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Williams is the key for me. Gotta find a way to keep him fit. Baker is Mr reliable and Semenyo (hopefully) a bit of a secret weapon

 

Is Semenyo the answer though? 5 in 70 isn’t the best of returns. 

[TonyTonyTony]

1 minute ago, Clevedon Red said:

Is Semenyo the answer though? 5 in 70 isn’t the best of returns. 

I did say hopefully ...

[Ska Junkie]

1 minute ago, Clevedon Red said:

Is Semenyo the answer though? 5 in 70 isn’t the best of returns. 

He's one of few potential answers CR. Whether he can do enough to be the answer is another point entirely.

[ExiledAjax]

37 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Correct….you are the unofficial auditor of my data and have been tracking your own for some time.

I’m not, not when we are 10 points clear against a team in 22nd who are getting 0.6ppg.

I know Derby are getting 1.13, but when they get their additional 9, can’t buy anyone I’m not worried either!

just saying interesting fixtures tonight

Especially when we are on 1.1 ppg over the past 10 games. I'd suggest that 1.1 is about all we need to maintain in order to avoid relegation. Gives us 33 more points, for a final tally of 52. Rubbish, but enough to avoid the bottom three.

Can we do 7 wins, 12 draws, 11 losses?

Edited November 3, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[Clevedon Red]

32 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I did say hopefully ...

You did…I really hope he does it as well because I’m sure he has the potential….I’m grasping at straws though.

 

32 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

He's one of few potential answers CR. Whether he can do enough to be the answer is another point entirely.

I hope so SJ

[Harry]

Relegation Season?  Mmmm....very possibly.
When were we last relegated - 2012/13 season.  There are soooo many similarities.  It's actually very concerning.

2012/13 were an overpaid, aging squad, with very little quality in possession and were gutless and spineless with a lack of leaders.
2021/22 - Yeah, pretty much the same.

For Heaton see Bentley - the experienced, well paid keeper, who's a decent shotstopper but can't command his box.
For Foster see Simpson - the full back trusted by the manager from their old days, but who is a waste of a squad place.
For Maloney see Tanner - the young fullback brought in during the season who wasn't ever ready but you had to stick him in anyway because the alternative was awful.
For Dasilva see Cunningham - the young attacking full back with international caps, but who ultimately was a bit weak really.
For Fontaine see Vyner - the academy graduate who gets torn apart by any decent opposition.
For Nyatanga see Kalas - the well paid experienced international who you were hoping could be a leader but ultimately needs better players alongside them to thrive.
For Stephen Pearson see James - the old injury-prone pro who you were hoping would give you quality and leadership but ends up being dragged down to the poor level of those around them.
For Kilkenny see King - the well-paid never-was-been who you expected to bring some kind of organisation to the team.
For Marvin Elliot see Joe Williams - the tough tackling one who's hardly ever fit.
For Skuse see Bakinson - the one from the youth team who occasionally looks decent on the ball but jogs about and doesn't understand the meaning of the words 'track your runner'.
For Baldock see Wells - the well-paid striker who's notched a good number of goals in the past but seems to miss a host of chances.
For Stephen Davies see Martin - the well-paid ex Derby man who never looks fit.
For Weimann see - jeez, Weimann is in a league of his own - I can't even think of someone from that 2012 squad who is so braindead on the ball and lacks so much quality in a final pass.

So many similarities.  That 2012/13 team quite literally gave up in most games and showed zero interest in fighting for the cause.  I hope some of this current crop can at least make an attempt to sow some fight - otherwise it's quite literally 2012/13 again.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

Relegation Season?  Mmmm....very possibly.
When were we last relegated - 2012/13 season.  There are soooo many similarities.  It's actually very concerning.

2012/13 were an overpaid, aging squad, with very little quality in possession and were gutless and spineless with a lack of leaders.
2021/22 - Yeah, pretty much the same.

For Heaton see Bentley - the experienced, well paid keeper, who's a decent shotstopper but can't command his box.
For Foster see Simpson - the full back trusted by the manager from their old days, but who is a waste of a squad place.
For Maloney see Tanner - the young fullback brought in during the season who wasn't ever ready but you had to stick him in anyway because the alternative was awful.
For Dasilva see Cunningham - the young attacking full back with international caps, but who ultimately was a bit weak really.
For Fontaine see Vyner - the academy graduate who gets torn apart by any decent opposition.
For Nyatanga see Kalas - the well paid experienced international who you were hoping could be a leader but ultimately needs better players alongside them to thrive.
For Stephen Pearson see James - the old injury-prone pro who you were hoping would give you quality and leadership but ends up being dragged down to the poor level of those around them.
For Kilkenny see King - the well-paid never-was-been who you expected to bring some kind of organisation to the team.
For Marvin Elliot see Joe Williams - the tough tackling one who's hardly ever fit.
For Skuse see Bakinson - the one from the youth team who occasionally looks decent on the ball but jogs about and doesn't understand the meaning of the words 'track your runner'.
For Baldock see Wells - the well-paid striker who's notched a good number of goals in the past but seems to miss a host of chances.
For Stephen Davies see Martin - the well-paid ex Derby man who never looks fit.
For Weimann see - jeez, Weimann is in a league of his own - I can't even think of someone from that 2012 squad who is so braindead on the ball and lacks so much quality in a final pass.

So many similarities.  That 2012/13 team quite literally gave up in most games and showed zero interest in fighting for the cause.  I hope some of this current crop can at least make an attempt to sow some fight - otherwise it's quite literally 2012/13 again.

Most terrifying post on OTIB this season. I'd forgotten that particular season and crop of players but you've brought it back with total clarity. Cheers, Harry 

[lenred]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

Relegation Season?  Mmmm....very possibly.
When were we last relegated - 2012/13 season.  There are soooo many similarities.  It's actually very concerning.

2012/13 were an overpaid, aging squad, with very little quality in possession and were gutless and spineless with a lack of leaders.
2021/22 - Yeah, pretty much the same.

For Heaton see Bentley - the experienced, well paid keeper, who's a decent shotstopper but can't command his box.
For Foster see Simpson - the full back trusted by the manager from their old days, but who is a waste of a squad place.
For Maloney see Tanner - the young fullback brought in during the season who wasn't ever ready but you had to stick him in anyway because the alternative was awful.
For Dasilva see Cunningham - the young attacking full back with international caps, but who ultimately was a bit weak really.
For Fontaine see Vyner - the academy graduate who gets torn apart by any decent opposition.
For Nyatanga see Kalas - the well paid experienced international who you were hoping could be a leader but ultimately needs better players alongside them to thrive.
For Stephen Pearson see James - the old injury-prone pro who you were hoping would give you quality and leadership but ends up being dragged down to the poor level of those around them.
For Kilkenny see King - the well-paid never-was-been who you expected to bring some kind of organisation to the team.
For Marvin Elliot see Joe Williams - the tough tackling one who's hardly ever fit.
For Skuse see Bakinson - the one from the youth team who occasionally looks decent on the ball but jogs about and doesn't understand the meaning of the words 'track your runner'.
For Baldock see Wells - the well-paid striker who's notched a good number of goals in the past but seems to miss a host of chances.
For Stephen Davies see Martin - the well-paid ex Derby man who never looks fit.
For Weimann see - jeez, Weimann is in a league of his own - I can't even think of someone from that 2012 squad who is so braindead on the ball and lacks so much quality in a final pass.

So many similarities.  That 2012/13 team quite literally gave up in most games and showed zero interest in fighting for the cause.  I hope some of this current crop can at least make an attempt to sow some fight - otherwise it's quite literally 2012/13 again.

Some good comparisons Harry.  I’d say (at the moment) that Kalas is streets ahead of Lewin, likewise James above Pearson and King over Kilkenny the latter two for their consciousness and apparent value to the dressing room if nothing else. However you could also argue that Heaton was way above Bents, Skuse was better than Bakinson currently is performing and Davies was decent imho compared to Martins current form anyhow. So it’s close but I’d still say we’ve currently got a better team than back then and have enough to stay up. Just.  

[Harry]

3 minutes ago, lenred said:

Some good comparisons Harry.  I’d say (at the moment) that Kalas is streets ahead of Lewin, likewise James above Pearson and King over Kilkenny the latter two for their consciousness and apparent value to the dressing room if nothing else. However you could also argue that Heaton was way above Bents, Skuse was better than Bakinson currently is performing and Davies was decent imho compared to Martins current form anyhow. So it’s close but I’d still say we’ve currently got a better team than back then and have enough to stay up. Just.  

I hope you are right.  But the way we've thrown in the towel in a few games of late has me very concerned of a deja-vue.  They need to get some fight back in them.

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

I hope you are right.  But the way we've thrown in the towel in a few games of late has me very concerned of a deja-vue.  They need to get some fight back in them.

Yep there is definitely a similar feeling to it at the moment, there is no doubt.  Still feel a combination of poor teams below us, better players (just) and better management will see us right.   

[Harry]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

Yep there is definitely a similar feeling to it at the moment, there is no doubt.  Still feel a combination of poor teams below us, better players (just) and better management will see us right.   

The "better management" is currently debatable.

[NOTBLUE]

22 minutes ago, Harry said:

Relegation Season?  Mmmm....very possibly.
When were we last relegated - 2012/13 season.  There are soooo many similarities.  It's actually very concerning.

2012/13 were an overpaid, aging squad, with very little quality in possession and were gutless and spineless with a lack of leaders.
2021/22 - Yeah, pretty much the same.

For Heaton see Bentley - the experienced, well paid keeper, who's a decent shotstopper but can't command his box.
For Foster see Simpson - the full back trusted by the manager from their old days, but who is a waste of a squad place.
For Maloney see Tanner - the young fullback brought in during the season who wasn't ever ready but you had to stick him in anyway because the alternative was awful.
For Dasilva see Cunningham - the young attacking full back with international caps, but who ultimately was a bit weak really.
For Fontaine see Vyner - the academy graduate who gets torn apart by any decent opposition.
For Nyatanga see Kalas - the well paid experienced international who you were hoping could be a leader but ultimately needs better players alongside them to thrive.
For Stephen Pearson see James - the old injury-prone pro who you were hoping would give you quality and leadership but ends up being dragged down to the poor level of those around them.
For Kilkenny see King - the well-paid never-was-been who you expected to bring some kind of organisation to the team.
For Marvin Elliot see Joe Williams - the tough tackling one who's hardly ever fit.
For Skuse see Bakinson - the one from the youth team who occasionally looks decent on the ball but jogs about and doesn't understand the meaning of the words 'track your runner'.
For Baldock see Wells - the well-paid striker who's notched a good number of goals in the past but seems to miss a host of chances.
For Stephen Davies see Martin - the well-paid ex Derby man who never looks fit.
For Weimann see - jeez, Weimann is in a league of his own - I can't even think of someone from that 2012 squad who is so braindead on the ball and lacks so much quality in a final pass.

So many similarities.  That 2012/13 team quite literally gave up in most games and showed zero interest in fighting for the cause.  I hope some of this current crop can at least make an attempt to sow some fight - otherwise it's quite literally 2012/13 again.

Thanks for that,is your nick name ‘Harry the B******’.

[Offside]

We are playing as poorly as I’ve  ever seen us, and it’s a blessing that the sides currently in the bottom 3 are quite far adrift of us. 

We feel like a makeshift side. I was expecting that this season. But we are so very low on quality and we don’t have much to compensate for that at the moment, like a coherent style of play. I was hoping NP would be able to deliver that, but after some encouraging signs early in the season our performances are falling apart to a degree I was not expecting. 

Will we be relegated? Possibly, yes, we look like a side bad enough to end up in the bottom 3 and confidence is shot. We can barely string any passes together and are often wide open. I’m just hoping the teams below us will continue to find it difficult to pick up points. 

[lenred]

Just now, Harry said:

The "better management" is currently debatable.

Yep dont disagree, it’s definitely debatable.  But I’d have Pearson over either of our managers that year in our current position. Far more proven than either. Just my opinion. Hopefully its right! 

[The Bard]

34 minutes ago, Harry said:

Relegation Season?  Mmmm....very possibly.
When were we last relegated - 2012/13 season.  There are soooo many similarities.  It's actually very concerning.

2012/13 were an overpaid, aging squad, with very little quality in possession and were gutless and spineless with a lack of leaders.
2021/22 - Yeah, pretty much the same.

For Heaton see Bentley - the experienced, well paid keeper, who's a decent shotstopper but can't command his box.
For Foster see Simpson - the full back trusted by the manager from their old days, but who is a waste of a squad place.
For Maloney see Tanner - the young fullback brought in during the season who wasn't ever ready but you had to stick him in anyway because the alternative was awful.
For Dasilva see Cunningham - the young attacking full back with international caps, but who ultimately was a bit weak really.
For Fontaine see Vyner - the academy graduate who gets torn apart by any decent opposition.
For Nyatanga see Kalas - the well paid experienced international who you were hoping could be a leader but ultimately needs better players alongside them to thrive.
For Stephen Pearson see James - the old injury-prone pro who you were hoping would give you quality and leadership but ends up being dragged down to the poor level of those around them.
For Kilkenny see King - the well-paid never-was-been who you expected to bring some kind of organisation to the team.
For Marvin Elliot see Joe Williams - the tough tackling one who's hardly ever fit.
For Skuse see Bakinson - the one from the youth team who occasionally looks decent on the ball but jogs about and doesn't understand the meaning of the words 'track your runner'.
For Baldock see Wells - the well-paid striker who's notched a good number of goals in the past but seems to miss a host of chances.
For Stephen Davies see Martin - the well-paid ex Derby man who never looks fit.
For Weimann see - jeez, Weimann is in a league of his own - I can't even think of someone from that 2012 squad who is so braindead on the ball and lacks so much quality in a final pass.

So many similarities.  That 2012/13 team quite literally gave up in most games and showed zero interest in fighting for the cause.  I hope some of this current crop can at least make an attempt to sow some fight - otherwise it's quite literally 2012/13 again.

You didn't mention Mr Ashton's previous involvement at the club...

We'll get away with it just because there are a few car crashes below us.  As you have posted elsewhere the recruitment side of the club simply has to be sorted asap.  I'd feel a lot more confident if it was..

[TV Tom]

Luckily Derby haven’t got enough to stay up, Hull are rubbish, final place between us Peterborough & Barnsley, if we don’t add some sort of decent striker in January I think it will be us, we barely look like scoring and are incapable of keeping a clean sheet, this manager has been a major disappointment, so angry that we didn’t go for a modern day manager like Cooper or Martin who understands the importance of keeping possession, i watched the start of the game like night and switched off after five seconds when we kicked it long and straight out of play from the kick off, please tell me the point of that

[WessexPest]

Just saw my Facebook memory from precisely three years ago today:

“Cast your mind back to Boxing Day - City 2 Reading 0, nicely nestled behind Wolves in the promotion places and on the back of a League Cup quarter-final defeat of Man United.

There's no denying that we have gone backwards in a big way since. How do we steady the ship?”

That season actually turned out to be our best since ‘08, albeit we were never really serious promotion contenders after a bad spell in the February. But I think the question still very much stands.Things have clearly degenerated from fizzling out to mid table from a good position.